Latest / Drip Talk by Boshart / How Persistence Wins Sales (S1.7)

Transcript

How Persistence Wins Sales (S1.7) · Drip Talk by Boshart

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Contractor Lead Podcast.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: My name is Aiden Henry.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Today we are chatting with Hunter Borland.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: Hunter works here in sales at Beauchard Industries.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: And in this episode, what we're talking about is persistence in sales, knowing when to dig into a customer relationship and cultivate it, and knowing when to actually walk away from an opportunity that isn't really an opportunity.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: Hunter's got uh a really interesting background in sales, a ton of knowledge, a lot of great wisdom here.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: We think you're really gonna love this episode.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Let's get into it.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Hunter Borland, welcome to the show, man.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: So good to have you here.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
0:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how was the trip up to Canada?
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Not bad.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Not bad.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: Went to uh through Chicago, quick layover in Toronto.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: I ate some good food yesterday, good Italian food.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: That's well, I always nice.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: That's one thing.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: I went to Italy a couple years ago and I coming back, I've been very impressed at how good uh the food scene is in Canada.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's like that all over the US, but I feel like at least in Canada and kind of where we are in Ontario, I feel like we're spoiled.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: The uh well, Jonathan hooked us up last night on some Italian food and uh yeah, it was really good.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: Got eight plus reviews from everybody.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: But I haven't got to explore much of Canada.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: It's only second time being here.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: So man, well, we'll change that soon enough.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: But anywho, to get down to business, man, we are talking about uh persistence in sales, and I'm really excited about that.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, this was uh a topic that we had chosen specifically for you uh just because you are a guy that knows a thing or two about that.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: And you've uh worked at Bow Shark for a number of years now.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: But maybe just for anyone tuning in uh who doesn't know you, can you maybe just give me like the 30-second snapshot of kind of your career and and specifically kind of the stuff that touches on everything that led up to where you are today?
1:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um went to college, graduated college in 2010 or 2014, and uh went to work for an ag company buying and selling rendered animal byproducts.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: So very different than what I'm what I'm doing now.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh got an opportunity with a uh PVC pipe fitting manufacturer and spent a little over four years there and uh was actually hired by uh my customer previous or at Bowshar now, Sean.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh he was my customer when I was at uh at Lasco and uh so been here three years almost to to the day.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: It was like three years ago in a week that I was up here doing my onboarding.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: So I love it.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: Kind of funny how it's uh how that happened.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: What how much of that was sales specifically?
2:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh so all sales the past seven and a half years-ish, and then a little bit of sales.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: I ran a trucking company and did sales and procurement and kind of a little bit of everything.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: So I'd say get eight, nine years of of sales.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Did you choose sales or did sales choose you?
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was always told that if you want to make good money, go get in sales.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: So uh That's fair.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh no, it kind of just chose me.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I've always been good with people and carrying on conversations and and things like that.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of a natural fit and uh enjoyed it.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Once I started getting to know people and you know, going out and see people face to face, it was always in, you know, enjoyed it.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: So it just kind of one thing led to another, and now now that's all I do.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Now that's all you do.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: I love that, man.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I mean, I know like, you know, when we've stood around at trade shows and stuff, uh, we've shot the breeze a bit about um you specifically and kind of how you got into sales and specifically working with Sean Hansen, who uh is your manager here at Bowser.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: We've had him on the show.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, really good guy, really smart guy.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: He knows his stuff, he knows his way around sales.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Also, yeah, he's good, but it was so cool.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Our episode uh really got into vulnerability and and kind of which was almost maybe a sign to Sean that I wasn't prepared for in quite that way, but then all of a sudden it made sense because Sean is just a solid guy.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: So, anywho, your uh your experience with Sean and and uh yeah, he was your customer, is that right?
3:46
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, like kind of I'm curious and I I would love to hear you explain a bit about how, so you know, our topic is about persistence.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: How did persistence help you build a relationship with Sean and kind of walk me through that entire process?
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was uh interesting.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: I'll leave out some language.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: I won't, I won't get I won't I won't be uh too R-rated.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh so no, the first time uh I talked to Sean, so I was in the irrigation world and uh he was working for a company that was brand new, right?
4:17
SPEAKER_01: And and so it was one of those things like we had a relationship with the company as a whole, and they were saying, hey, reach out to these uh, I guess regional managers or people that kind of looked over these certain logos or companies that he he worked for.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: And so first time I called him, introduced myself, let him know who I was working for.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: It was an interesting conversation.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Why?
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Why?
4:36
SPEAKER_01: He uh he had worked with with this manufacturer in the past and just had some issues, right?
4:40
SPEAKER_01: And uh when he was on the wholesale side and even as a contractor, but then the wholesale side you know 20 plus years ago.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: And uh so he had had some issues and and there was kind of a reputation there.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And uh so it was one of those things where he's like, look, man, we're good with who we're buying from.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Um again, I'm leaving out some language there, but it was one of those things of, hey, like I just told him, you know, I don't know what happened in the past.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: I can only base you know my my years that I've been with this company and and say that you know, this is where we are now, these are these are things that we do well, you know, we're we still have our difficulties and slip-ups here and there, but I think that we're a different company from from past.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: And uh again, we kind of went back and forth for you know five or 10 minutes, real brief, short conversation.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just barely getting to know each other.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: And uh he says it that he hung up the phone and and was like, I'm gonna hire that guy one day.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Um but it you know, over that you know, next six, eight, ten month period, it was calling on him every time I was in his area, uh having phone calls, doing Teams calls.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: A lot of this was during COVID, so it was hopping on Teams calls over and over again.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: And and eventually he was like, Look, man, I there's some things I'm just not gonna give you as far as product because contractors call for for a certain manufacturer.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh he goes, but like I'm gonna give you a shot.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: And uh so I think that again, getting back to the persistence is uh, you know, not giving up.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: That first phone call, the way it went, it could have been easy to just go, I'm never talking to that guy again.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Like he was mean and rude, and I'm just never talking to him again.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: But you know, you kind of break through that that layer and and get to know somebody and and they get to know you and you develop a real relationship.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: And then it was like, hey, I think there's there's a place for us to work together.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: Man, there's just so much gold in everything you said, and like 10 different rabbit trails we could chase.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: But the one that I I'm curious about right now because I imagine that this is kind of the danger, I think, with persistence is barking up the wrong tree, right?
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Persisting in a trying to build a relationship with a customer where it is not advisable to do so for any number of reasons, right?
6:34
SPEAKER_00: And I guess I'm curious when you were building that relationship when you you know, you clearly are getting back on the horse every time you're told no and had the door slammed in your face.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: How did you kind of differentiate to know that that was a relationship worth pursuing?
6:50
SPEAKER_00: Because I think that, yeah, like it it it, you know, trying to to know between, okay, is it more wise for me to persist?
6:58
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, obviously in this case it was, and look where you are today as a result of that.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, there are probably times where it's actually wiser just to catch and release a little bit, right?
7:08
SPEAKER_00: So can you walk me through how did you know that that was a relationship to to pursue?
7:12
SPEAKER_01: I think for one, they were he was with a company that was on the very ground floor of something that was about to explode and they were gonna go from not being in the industry to being a top two or three uh by size and locations and employees and sales, a top two or three wholesaler in the country.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: And so it's one of those like we got to have a relationship here, right?
7:30
SPEAKER_01: And and there was a door open because we were doing business with them in other parts of the country.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: So I think there was a little bit of, hey, the door's cracked, I just have to prove our prove ourselves to him.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: But within that, I as soon as he had this um preconceived notion of what this company was and and didn't want to work with us, I kind of just took it away from okay, let's not focus on the company, let's focus on a relationship between you and I and develop something that maybe is more of a friendship, you know, working relationship.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: Hey, give me some opportunities, be a number two, number three supplier if we can, and just get some crumbs, honestly.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: And and it seemed like that worked out, like just changing the dynamic of those conversations of going from you know, just trying to sell a product to, you know, he lives in Nebraska, you know, I'm a big college football fan, let's talk Nebraska football, let's do some other things that, hey, when I call, it's not just you know getting beat down over the same old products and and stuff like that, and him going, no, I'm not, I'm not doing it.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: And then just, you know, doing the afterwork stuff, going to have dinner and and getting to know each other on a different different level.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: And then eventually when he, you know, opportunities came our way, we fulfilled, and the things that I told him that we had improved on, we had improved on.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: And so he got to see it firsthand of okay, he's not just telling me that they've they're doing better, they are doing better.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: And so it just slowly like it took it took time, but it just I think changing that that conversation and not just going back and and beating a dead horse, right?
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I mean, I think what's interesting, you know, when you said some of those earliest conversations with him, um, he said, like, hey, you know, this has kind of been my experience working with your company in the past.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, we have good experiences with our vendors right now.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm just really not interested.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I like that you took that as an opportunity because I think it's very easy for salespeople at that point to kind of go, oh, okay, this is just never gonna turn out.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna pick up and move on, right?
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And that's not me trying to be judgmental.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a human reaction.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: No, and in fact, like a lot of times in sales, you just try to get to a no, right?
9:23
SPEAKER_01: Like if you can get to a no because you know there's absolutely no path forward with this guy, like that's just as good sometimes as a yes, because you you're not gonna waste your time.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: I've heard different salespeople, uh, some different books and uh podcasts and things I've consumed that have talked about try to kill the deal as quick as you can.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: That exactly, if this is not going to work out, it benefits the both of you to identify that as quickly as possible.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And so um some of these guys they approach sales completely backwards from kind of what we conventionally think of, where they almost, you know, I've seen guys that lead with price and throw a huge price tag.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: It's is like service and industry specific, but throw out a huge price tag immediately to kind of scare the client.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And if they don't immediately throw up in their mouths, then you know, okay, maybe we actually have a chance to work together, right?
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Um it's almost a starting point for a negotiation, but you get it out of the way early on and right at right off the jump.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: What I but what you kind of did that I think is really interesting and I really like it is um, you know, instead of being defeated when when Sean says, hey, we're just not interested, haven't had a good experience.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: I like that you did not just kind of, you know, tail between your legs and give up and go home.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: I like that you took that as an opportunity to say, hey, actually, we've really changed as a company and and totally fair, you know, your experience in the past.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that you're gonna find that that is different from what your experience would be today.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Um that sounds like a great technique.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Am I correct?
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, how how how self-aware were you of like, oh, here's how I win him back?
10:53
SPEAKER_00: Like that just seems like such a smart thing to do.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: I love it, but I can see that being counter to our instincts as a salesperson.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think when you're, you know, I could see somebody being at that company, or even with Bozar now, like um, you know, we're we've we've had a great name in the water well industry for a very long time.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: So if I walk into a water well wholesaler, like they know who we are, they know what we do.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: So you're starting at a certain point.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: But then I could walk into a plumbing house that has never heard about Bauchart, and I could look at that as one way of, oh man, they they don't know who we are, they don't know what we do.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: But I get the kind of write that narrative for them and get the the show them who Beauchard is.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: And so you're really just starting with a plain canvas.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: So I look at it the same way as as uh Lasco when I was there of like, hey, I didn't work here when they had these issues.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I've heard people talk about it and I know that they had they had these problems, but from what I've seen and what I've sold and what I know what we can do.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: So I don't even worry about that, what happened 15, 20 years ago.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like it's not even in my head, right?
11:48
SPEAKER_01: And so maybe it's just a little bit different.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe if I was there 25, 30 years and went through all the issues, I'd be like, oh yeah, I know what you mean, man.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: It was awful, and don't do business with us and walk away, whatever it might be.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: But uh no, I think I just don't let it get to me right.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: Like you can only you can only um I guess sell or talk about what you know.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: And and what I knew was that we were a better company at that time and and fulfilled what we said we were gonna do.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Man, again, just so much gold in everything there.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: How how important is it for a salesperson to approach sales that way?
12:19
SPEAKER_00: So I I'm I'm envisioning right now someone who is a little more uh maybe pessimistic, we'll say, and and someone that does not view a rejection as a blank canvas, right?
12:30
SPEAKER_00: So how vital is that and kind of how how I don't know, do you have advice for someone that if that's not their reaction to go, oh, this is a great opportunity, but instead they go, ah, shucks, there goes another one.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: How do you start to approach things like that if that's just not the way you're wired?
12:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, um I'm a big basketball fan.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: So like even the best, or in baseball, we can use any any analogy, but basketball, like the greatest shooters shoot like 45, 50 percent.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: You know, baseball, if you hit 300, you're you're like a Hall of Fame player, right?
13:03
SPEAKER_01: And so sales is just a naturally like one of those type things where every day you wake up, you call up a uh prospect, a customer, whatever, if you're working on an existing deal, trying to find a new prospect, you know, 70%, 60, 70, 80% of the time, you're gonna get told no.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just part of the gig.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: And so it's just one of those things of like you get you get used to it and you can just kind of go, all right, well, you can blame the customer or blame the prospect or look at yourself and go, all right, what can I do better?
13:28
SPEAKER_01: How can I approach this better?
13:29
SPEAKER_01: And I think when I first started, it was, you know, I lacked on the research of like going into a prospect and stuff like that, and you kind of try to go in and learn at you know from the jump in a conversation or a meeting of like, I'm gonna learn everything I can in this meeting instead of going, hey, let me go in with some some knowledge ahead of time, you know.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: And and so I don't know, there's just a lot of different things that that you can do, but it just knows gonna happen.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Like you're gonna you're gonna get hit with no a lot, and uh just moving on or being able to go back to that prospect that said no or that customer that said no and taking a different approach the the second and the third and the fourth time until you find something that that ticks with them.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And uh I think that's just you know, like I said, Michael Jordan shot 45% and he's considered the greatest basketball player of all time.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: I know I watched The Last Dance on Netflix, and I'm not a basketball guy, and that was phenomenal.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: So definitely recommend going watch that series on Netflix.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of sports uh rapper.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: That's like that's everything.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: I love sports.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: That's good, man.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's lean into it.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, you had said something about, you know, okay, when you go back the second, third, fourth, fifth time or what have you, um, you're you're kind of tweaking the process, you're trying different things.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you you said it earlier too, right?
14:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, you're talking about different things, you're not going straight to price or product or whatever.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: You're trying to actually build a meaningful relationship with them.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: Can you kind of, you know, for the the budding salesman or person who doesn't really know how to do that or has never done that, can you kind of give them some advice on like how do you handle that?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm especially um yeah, I I'm interested in hearing kind of how you tackle that, I guess.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: So first of all, like I just said, research, research, research.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're going into the first meeting or even second meeting, like knowing as much as you can about somebody before.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, you know, their company page, whatever it might be, like you can get as you can get a lot of information on somebody before you ever talk to them.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: And so doing your homework before, but then also going in, like, we've all been to a car dealership or something like that where you walk in and they immediately take you to a car and go, this is the best deal on the lot, and they start throwing prices at you and get in.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: They they're hard selling you, right?
15:34
SPEAKER_01: On on a on a car.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: And so you you can see through that a lot of times, I think, from if you're sitting on the other side of the table, somebody just comes in and it, there's no hello, how you doing?
15:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, can you tell me a little bit about yourself, your company, whatever it might be, whatever those questions are for you that you want to go learn about your customer, and you just jump right into hey, I think we could sell you this.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, you how do you know what you can sell somebody if you never like learned about them and know what they do?
15:57
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, like you can always go back and learn more.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: So that if that first conversation didn't go the way you want it to go, let it breathe and give it a little time.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: And then the second time, change up what you want to talk about.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Go, you know, find something on their wall or in their office.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Like you can walk in if they got a you know a picture of a golf course or a you know a favorite team or they've been the Europe, like start a conversation there.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: Like just get to know somebody, break down the wall, because once they're once their walls broke down, then you can get into more in-depth and and meaningful conversations that will eventually lead to trust and them wanting to do maybe give you some shots on on product opportunities.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: You get to know where where product opportunities will come up uh based on the conversation that you're having.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: And then um yeah, I I think just all the time trying to learn more.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: The more you learn, the better you can be for your customer.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: The uh Jordan Belfort, who's like the wolf of Wall Street guy.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't know a whole lot about him.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: I've watched some of his YouTube videos on sales, and um I feel like he's done this a couple times.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm probably butchering this.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: So if someone's listening to this and they know this better than me, then forgive me.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: But he does something, uh, he has some sort of kind of like sales exercise that he does when he does like keynote speeches and stuff, where um he'll give someone a pen and he'll be like, sell me this pen.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: And so usually it's like, oh, well, it's got blue ink and it's made out of the finest metals, blah, blah, blah.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: And they, and he goes, Okay, fine, whatever.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't want the pen.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: And so then he takes the pen back and goes, watch me sell this pen.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: And go, do you need a pen?
17:23
SPEAKER_00: And they go, no.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Okay, then I'm not gonna sell you this pen.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: And so what he's trying to kind of point out is without doing research on your customer, what their needs are, and whether or not your product can fulfill it.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: If they need a car, a pen is not a very useful thing, right?
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Exactly right.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, actually understanding what my customer needs is very valuable.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: If you know your customer has a whole bunch of paperwork and they need the nicest, finest pen that doesn't, you know, it's ergonomic and doesn't cause arthritis.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, now you've got all these awesome features you can lean into about your product because you know what matters to the customer, right?
17:58
SPEAKER_00: And I think that um again, I think all of us are guilty of it is that you can kind of skip over that part because you're so excited about, oh, here's what the marketing team told me, these are what the sales features are.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: I just got to hit on those and rattle them off.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm the best bitch ever.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: And I and I, you know, I'll often say, like, if if all it took to be an effective salesperson was knowing facts, then we would have engineers as salespeople.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: But as we know, sales is an art, right?
18:26
SPEAKER_00: And there's there's so much of it that is truly about connecting with people, right?
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And I just I find that aspect really interesting because I think in my experience, anyways, some of the most successful salespeople I know, and you know, you're certainly on the list, are just good people.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: I like talking to you.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: You can hang out, yeah.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: And I guess maybe, you know, I maybe just to almost challenge myself and to disagree with that, I guess one of the dangers I feel like I've seen, and I know we, you know, me, you, the, the broad Beauchart sales team have talked about is almost leaning too far in the direction of building a relationship and assuming that, oh, I just have to get them to like friends with a guy that are going to give me all their product.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: So I guess for you, my question is how do you kind of find that balance, right?
19:16
SPEAKER_00: So I really like what you're saying and the persistence of like, okay, you know, as we were saying with the pen thing, like you have to actually know them, you have to know what their needs are.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: But also, like, if you go straight to trying to sell product, you might not succeed.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: You need to know them as a human being, but you also can't go too far in that direction.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: How do you find that balance between all those things?
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think for one, when you're developing a relationship, like, you know, I have customers that we text all the time, and you got this great personal relationship with, and you're more friends than you are like business associates or anything like that.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: So there's that side of it.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: And even some of those like don't do business with us, right?
19:47
SPEAKER_01: Like we've developed a relationship through me prospecting or even from past companies where we're just still friends and we don't fit now, but we're we can still be friends.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: But I know and he knows or they know that we can't really work together in the space that we're in now, and that's okay.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: Like we're we're both still friends.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: And it and I think people trust you there.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: And I can always, no matter where I'm at, if we find a place where we can work with them moving forward, like I can always go back to them, right?
20:11
SPEAKER_01: So like having that personal relationship is a good, a good thing, but that can't be all you rely on because like there's still a business being ran, right?
20:20
SPEAKER_01: They still have to make financial decisions, product, yeah.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Nobody's just gonna be like, oh, he's my best friend, let me give him all our business.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: That's not the way it works.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: So like understanding, yes, you can develop a friendship and and a working relationship, but then getting to know their company, getting the people to know, like you're not gonna be best friends with everybody at a company.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: So getting to know everyone else and and what makes them tick and what what they find important, because it could be you walk into one customer and it's all price, right?
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't matter what relationship you have and it it could be all price, and you gotta decide if that that's worth it.
20:50
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be strictly transactional.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: You can walk into another where it's hey man, we're we're high quality and and we we want a product that that the company, the manufacturer's gonna stand behind.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I know, okay, hey, we gotta in here because we are a high quality company, but like we know that that they're not just gonna rely on, hey, what's the cheapest price?
21:07
SPEAKER_01: And so just finding out those little little nuggets, bringing stuff that you're hearing in the market, like um people setting up uh I don't know, I've this just came up to me in Missouri, setting up like um the little train boxcars as like a consignment shop.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: And they they don't have a like an actual office space or warehouse space, but they have like 10 or 12 of these little train cars, boxcars set up across the state and fill it with product, and they go around and check it every week and and based you know, based off inventory, uh send an invoice to their customer and just little things like that.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: So I can take that to the next customer and and maybe give them an idea.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: So I think just finding out what makes that company tick, what's important to them?
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Is it is it price, is it quality, is it you know, us doing trainings once or twice a year or once a month?
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Is it us riding with their sales?
21:54
SPEAKER_01: What whatever it might be, how can I mold myself to fit what you're wanting as From a vendor.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: And so again, all that comes through the double developing a relationship, but it doesn't have to be like a best friend relationship.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: It could strictly be work, but you're developing that relationship to find out what makes them tick, right?
22:11
SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I try to do.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: I guess you know, it doesn't always work.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Like there's some people that you're just not gonna that you're gonna have battles with and it just doesn't click and you just kind of move on, or maybe find somebody else that may lead you in the right direction of that company.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: Don't don't stop just at the first person you talk to.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, find find the right person within a company.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: I think that's important as well.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I think a lot of times I I've done in the past where you call on one person and you think that's the one person you're gonna call on within a company forever.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: No, you gotta you gotta stretch your wings a little bit and and find everybody else to talk to and and find the sales manager, find the company owner, find the procurement guy, uh warehouse operations.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: You never know who's that one uh gatekeeper, I guess, as they say.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that makes things turn.
22:53
SPEAKER_00: So um just always learning.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: I love that, man.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, and um like, yeah, that is interesting.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: So you know, obviously, we we've read the book, The Challenger Sale.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about that a lot as a sales team.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't remember if it was a thing that the the sales team had to read the Challenger Customer, which is like the follow-up book, but it's almost like um the this the prequel to it because uh what it talks about is getting buy-in from the entire company and how much that can impact sales, right?
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh and that something like on average, you need 5.6 people in an organization to favor you and your company in order to win the sale.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think some of what you're talking about there is super valuable.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm underscoring it here of like building a relationship, not just with who you think is the decision maker, but other key influencers in an organization can also be really helpful to winning some of the business.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that you said that I just want to circle back on because I think it is interesting, and I think it is a nuance that can be easy to miss for salespeople because it's counterintuitive.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of what we're talking about today is counterintuitive.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: And I love that it's beautiful.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: When you're talking about, okay, you know, four or five, six meetings with a customer before he spends a dime with you, that's that's costly to you.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: That's an investment of you and your time.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And you know, you're even talking about some of these uh customers or prospects and people that you maintain relationships with, but you don't actually do business with them.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: And what you're pointing out about that is like um you sometimes in the role of sales will have relationships with people that on paper don't actually earn you anything.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: And so I would love to hear you talk about is it true?
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Am I hearing you correctly, that uh it is not enough for a salesperson to see people purely as transactional and go, oh, you can't give me any business, you're dead to me, I'm gonna move on.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And and it is about caring at a deeper, a true and authentic, deeper level about that person.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Am I hearing you right?
24:56
SPEAKER_00: It's worked for me.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: And don't get me wrong, I have transactional customers that like they buy a couple products from us and I talk to them, you know, a couple times a year, and that's all they want, that's all they need, and we set those expectations early on, and they're like, hey, we don't we don't need you here every month.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: Like we we we buy what we buy, and that's what we're gonna do, and we're loyal to you, but you know, you don't you don't have to waste your time coming to see me all the time.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Just check in every once in a while.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: And if we have a problem, we'll call you.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: So like there are transactional customers, and those are fine, like you know, but that's not the ones that I guess can you can partner up with and can kind of take you to that next level of of customer vendor relationship and really work together to find a solution to any problems they have, if their contractor has a problem.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: So, but even if you know you're not gonna be able to, I guess to get back to your point, like even if you can't work with somebody right now because you don't have the right product offering, or maybe they're just really happy with with who they're you know currently being supplied by from our point or you know, from our case, you can still always check in and and do it from a point of, man, I'm not trying to sell you the day.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: I just really want to check in and see how you're doing.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: If there is anything that you know we could do for you, if you ever get into a situation where you need something that you know we have and you don't have an alley for, would love to be, you know, would love to take that opportunity.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: But I think just being a good person checking in, like it's so easy now.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's we have Facebook.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: Again, we have Facebook, all these things that tells you when people's birthdays are, you know, work uh anniversary.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: So you wish me a happy birthday this year.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, work anniversaries, like it sounds bad and it may not be like I wish I had a uh, you know, a mind that could just remember everybody's birthday.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: But like we got all these tools, it's like, hey, it takes two seconds to text somebody happy birthday.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: And you never know like what that means to somebody.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: Maybe they only got 10 happy birthdays from somebody and they you're one of them.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: They'll remember that.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: So just little things of like, yeah, I may not do business with you, but we can still have a relationship.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I'll still come in and see you when I'm in town and and it, you know, 15 minutes because I know we don't need to spend a lot of time together, but it's still one of those touch points.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: I forget the exact number, but I think it takes like maybe up to 20 touch points before you actually on average before you start doing business with somebody, and that can get that can get tiresome, right?
26:59
SPEAKER_01: Like one after another.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: And a touch point can be a text, an email, a phone call, uh, you know, in in-person visit.
27:04
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to always be you know going to see someone.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: But you you can kind of get tired and go, man, I talked to this guy five times and it's just I'm not getting anywhere with them.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, if it's on average 20, that can mean it could be 40 or 50 touch points before you you do business with someone and just being genuine in that in that relationship and not just hard selling and just trying to look out for your best benefit, but yours and your customer or your prospect's best benefit.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: It seems to go pretty far.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think that's interesting because what you're talking about is having a level of integrity as a salesperson, right?
27:35
SPEAKER_00: You are not encouraging anyone listening to uh manipulate the system.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I just need to hit these 20 touch points, and then he's gonna give me half a million dollars in business or something like that, right?
27:46
SPEAKER_00: That's that is the exact opposite of the.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I wish it worked that way.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: That'd be fantastic.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: We can hit all your sales numbers.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: I'd just be calling 20, 20.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: There we go.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 20 a day.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, done work in like a week for the year, take the 51 weeks off.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think that's valuable, right?
28:02
SPEAKER_00: And again, I think it's it's human nature that and any of us can be guilty of it of just being like, hey, I got a job, I got a sales forecast, I got to hit whatever.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm just here to like I need transactions, I need money in the account, I need whatever.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: But to succeed at business uh and to, you know, not lose your soul in the process is about so much more than that, right?
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And I I think that that is really uh something that I think most people maybe don't wrestle with enough.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: That it is it sales is like, you know, it's unfortunate that sales, you know, the the used car salesman is is what people default to because I think guys like you just to pay you a compliment, but a very sincere one, is that you make it so much more um personal than that, but so much more sincere and integral than that.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think sales done right, that's what it means to work in sales, you know.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: And I I don't really enjoy, you know, when you get hard sold by somebody like you who does.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: I was even at a fireworks stand the other day.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, how can you get hard sold on fireworks?
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Like I got a full rundown and like tell me, tell me.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: So I walk in, obviously got my kids with me, right?
29:12
SPEAKER_01: And they just want like little poppets and you know, firecrackers, something that just makes a loud noise.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: I just gotta say it, like Canadians, we like our fireworks, but this feels like a very American thing.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: I just I love it though.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: Keep going, America, keep going, keep going.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we walk in and it's like we hadn't even got to like the first little, it was a little U-shaped, you know, firework stand.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: There's probably 20 tables worth of fireworks.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: And so we didn't even move it to the first firework, and the guy's like, How's it going, man?
29:37
SPEAKER_01: How's it going?
29:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what are y'all here for?
29:38
SPEAKER_01: What are you here for?
29:39
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Oh, we're just kind of looking around, just want to get the kids something.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: He's like, All right, well, we got you know little stuff here.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: He goes, but let me show you this uh this big, you know, exploding box that's worth$500, and let me show you what all he's got in.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: It's really a value of like$1,200, but it's only$500 a day.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you missed every like I said, I'm just here to get some little small stuff for my kids.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: Like they wanted the, I might grab a couple little fountain, you know, something that will go up and explode just at the end of the night.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: But like for the most part, they just want stuff like sparklers that they can do right there in front of them.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: They think it's cool.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: But it was like he totally missed all of that.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: Like he wanted to sell the big$1,200 thing.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: I get it, he probably runs the fireworks stand and trying to make as much money as he can.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: But I was like, you you just came in, got right in my face, right in my kid's face, like almost yelling, and just went straight to what you wanted me to go look at.
30:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, from that point forward, I was like, Yeah, man, we're good.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: We'll just grab what we need and leave.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: And if you know, it's it's still fireworks, right?
30:29
SPEAKER_01: We all know what fireworks do, and like you don't have to sell me on it.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: But like if you'd just been cool and hey, eventually got to me and went, Hey, can I show you one?
30:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, are y'all looking to have a big fireworks display?
30:38
SPEAKER_01: And maybe I was, maybe I wasn't, but just the jumping right in my face, right off from the jump, I'm like, all right, I'm I'm good, and I'm probably not going back there again.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: And and you and you are a sales guy, and so you like you're you were more familiar with that with most, and it turned you off of it that quickly, right?
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and oh man, I it's just so interesting to me, and it circles right back to uh the you know, the pen analogy I was saying before about does that salesman actually understand your needs or wants or desires?
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Because if he doesn't, he's gonna try to sell you on the$500 fireworks.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: You came to spend 10 or 20 bucks, right?
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: And there is, I think this is another principle that salespeople can sometimes forget is if your intent is to spend$20, I can try to talk you into the$500 upgrade all I want.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: That is a mountain I gotta push a boulder up, right?
31:33
SPEAKER_00: Like that is a very difficult thing to do.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: Versus if I'm going to meet you where you're at, sell you what you're interested in, build that relationship as we talked about, and a genuine one, not a manipulative one, to go, okay, first I sell them the$20, then I sell them the$100, and then the$500.
31:47
SPEAKER_00: No, like genuinely, what are you interested in?
31:50
SPEAKER_00: What matters to you?
31:50
SPEAKER_00: How can I kind of serve and take care of you, right?
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: It it's so much more.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: It's funny you bring that up.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: I was talking to Tim, we were having one of our calls, and he brought up I'd never heard the phrase before, but like sell the difference, right?
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Like if you want to sell something that you think you could sell$100 worth and I was trying to sell 20, it's like, well, sell the 21st.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Now you got to sell the 80.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: And it was put in a little bit different terms, like we're gonna use the fireworks stand thing, but like just sell the difference.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Don't sell, like, don't try to just go sell the 100 bucks.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: But if you can get a little bit more, then you can get a little bit more.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: But sell sell the difference.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: Don't try to like just jump in to whatever like the most expensive thing is, like, it's probably not gonna work, right?
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Like you, but we think we gotta sell the whole thing, the whole thing, right?
32:31
SPEAKER_01: But you can you can shrink that down a little bit and you can still make money and you can still keep a relationship, and you would have kept me coming back next year.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, but instead I'm gonna find somebody else because it's like, uh, this this wasn't the great experience.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: And again, it's it's fireworks.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: It was you know, we spent 50 or 60 bucks, but like I'd rather not be felt like I was being sold to.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: And I'm a salesman, right?
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Like I know that's weird, but like when you when you feel like you're being sold, it it's it is a turnoff.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Like people get get turned away pretty quick.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, 50 bucks is if I'm doing my math right, 10% at 500, right?
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Like that that's a considerable jump, right?
33:06
SPEAKER_00: And and I think what you're saying about selling the difference, um, such a fantastic concept, right?
33:12
SPEAKER_00: To to kind of show, okay, here's where the customer's at, or here's kind of where what their expectations are, or what have you, here's maybe what I'm hoping for, or just what I think will genuinely benefit them.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: And I'm really just trying to connect the the gap between where they are or what they're comfortable with and where I am.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not trying to sell them on this whole thing and pretend that we're starting at zero, right?
33:33
SPEAKER_00: Because um, you know, when you frame it in that way, you are just creating more work for yourself than anything else.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, the customer, if they've already taken that little bit of a step towards you, you know, don't squander it and and force them to start at the back, right?
33:49
SPEAKER_00: But this whole conversation around fireworks makes me just think about um persisting when you ought not to in sales.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: And I guess, you know, whether whether we're circling back to your situation with Sean, talking about the fireworks guy, any other situation, what are the signs?
34:06
SPEAKER_00: If you're the salesperson, um, what are the signs that you are maybe persisting in a way that is not helping you or the customer?
34:15
SPEAKER_00: And this is barking up the wrong tree, like I said before, and this is not a deal worth pursuing.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Like, how how would you have known, okay, I really should just let this go?
34:25
SPEAKER_00: And what does that mean?
34:27
SPEAKER_00: What what what does that even look like?
34:29
SPEAKER_01: I think from the jump like number one's engagement.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: So I've fallen into this trap, right?
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Like you kind of get salesmen kind of get in a habit of like a milk run or just calling the check in.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Like you've heard that call.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna call it a check-in.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Like that, that gets old pretty quick, right?
34:44
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know if you have anybody that calls you all the time that's trying to sell you something, but if they're like every time they call you, just goes, hey man, just want to check in, it's like, yeah, doing great.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: See ya.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't have time for this, right?
34:53
SPEAKER_00: Just trying to get them off the phone as quick as you can, right?
34:54
SPEAKER_01: Exactly right.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like those words are and I've it's taken me a long time to get that out of my vocabulary because it is it is just a dead end from the jump.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: So for don't use check-in.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, at least in my opinion, don't use check-in.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Sales advice right now.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: And don't walk into a, you know, if you're going to see somebody with nothing to talk about, like bring value to every conversation, even if it's something that is maybe you don't find a ton of value in it, but something that has a little bit of value that could mean something big to that customer.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: And it could be a multitude of different things.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: It could be a product, it could be, you know, you're hearing things out in the market that maybe they don't know what's going on.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Maybe their competitors are doing something different from them that that's working that you can bring to them, but bring value to a conversation.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Don't just do the milk run, the check-in, because that is just it, it can go nowhere quick.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I think engagement is is number one, right?
35:42
SPEAKER_01: Like if if somebody's not answering your calls, if they're every time you call to set up a meeting, they're going, hey man, this isn't this isn't working.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Like you need to take a step back and maybe let that breathe for a little while.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And you can doesn't mean it's dead, but you can start over at another point, like, hey, we'll we'll give this six months, we'll give it a year, and then I can go back to it.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: I think also knowing like once you kind of get in, if people are there's certain products that that you know that you carry that may be like low-cost leader type products, right?
36:08
SPEAKER_01: That get you in the door.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: But if they're always just asking you for a quote on those, like very commoditized products, I found a lot of times those are like, hey, we don't want to tell you no, but we don't want to really give you any business either.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Like you you can just find like a trend of like certain products or like they're asking you to quote certain things over and over again, and you're like, okay, this is this is kind of a dead end, right?
36:30
SPEAKER_01: Like they just want to keep me around because we learned during COVID that you can't have all your eggs in one basket.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: So like they want to keep all vendors close, right?
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And I think we can find a little false uh security, yeah, false security in that of like, oh yeah, we're we're really close to doing business with them, and and really they're keeping you at arm's length, right?
36:47
SPEAKER_01: So being able to see that and then but then also being able to have open conversations with those guys, like, hey man, are we really gonna be able to do anything with you?
36:53
SPEAKER_01: Like, don't be afraid to have a tough conversation with a customer.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: Like, we can be persistent and we can call on on customers and prospects over and over again.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: At some point, though, if you're just calling and having the same conversation, eventually, like either you gotta look at yourself and go, I'm not doing this right, or you just have a conversation with the with ex-customer or prospect and say, Hey man, is are we going anywhere with this?
37:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, if if you don't want to do business with this, like it'd be waste of your time for me to keep doing this, a waste of my time.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: Let's just split and and like I said, in a year we can we can come back to this conversation.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think to get back where persistence is good.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, I had a customer when I first came on board, Sean.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: This was like his number one, hey, I want this prospect, we gotta have him.
37:33
SPEAKER_01: So set up a meeting.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Our first call was eh, you know, just getting to know each other, right?
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Doing some discovery boost, and uh second, third, fourth conversation, we we were quoting product, not really getting anywhere.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: And it took about two years.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: But through having conversations, we learned that you know, they were shipping everything to one location.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: They have like six or seven branches, then they were shipping that out to all.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: So they're touching product two, three, four times to bring in, to hit FFA from another vendor.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: And so we just started kind of having a conversation.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: It was like, well, hey, what if we present a package that, yeah, we can't get there on price, who we're competing against.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: We're we're always gonna be high.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: But how can we present a package that helps them ship to all their individual locations direct from Bowshark?
38:14
SPEAKER_01: So they're touching it, you know, we're touching it once, they're touching it once, it's on the shelf, that's it.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: And there's a cost to that, right?
38:19
SPEAKER_01: When they're having to put product on a truck.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: So it took two years, but eventually, like we found that little bit of like need.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it was like, okay, this is where we need to attack and and come up with a uh uh like a program for them, rebate program, a shipping program that that fits their needs.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: And sure enough, like that that customer has become like a real partner.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: And you know, we're invited to events they do, we're always sponsoring stuff they do.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: I was just with them a couple weeks ago, and they're everything's going great.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: They love us, and they're like, you know, we're not gonna go back to who we're doing business with before because you've you provided something that we missed and that we should have been focusing on.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: And so, like, yeah, it took two years, and that's a long time, and there's a lot more than 20 touch points in that in that in that relationship.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: I would imagine.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: But like eventually, like we we became real partners, and like it's a really good partnership, and we're continuing to grow.
39:07
SPEAKER_01: They want me bringing them products all the time the to do business with, and it just turned out to be really good.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: And it and but I could have got really frustrated a year into that and went like we're never doing business here, like there's no there's no direction, but it just took finally understanding what their pain point was.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, man, I love that.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: What a fantastic uh just example of what it means to persist in a way that is like not self-serving, right?
39:33
SPEAKER_00: In a way, and again, not to just keep saying the same thing over and over in different words, but like you could not have gotten to that point two years into that relationship with that customer if you did not genuinely care about what mattered to them more than you cared about what mattered to you, at least on some level, right?
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Of course, again, we're not a charity, we are a business, we do have sales numbers now, of course.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: All every all things intention here, right?
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, like to be able to identify here is actually a pain point this customer has that I don't even know that they really realized, right?
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Yep when you know you talked about uh providing value in a different way because you're saying, okay, on price, we are just not going to be able to compete.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: So if price is the one and only thing that matters to them, no problem, I'll pack up my bags and go home, right?
40:21
SPEAKER_00: But you use that as an opportunity to say, okay, price may not be the thing that we provide value on, but there might be other things that we do that does provide value.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: And again, this through the art of sales, there's negotiation, compromise, finding something in between.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: But that is then your opportunity to build something that, yeah, now has flourished and turned into this phenomenal partnership where we are doing business with them and they have transferred their loyalty to us, right?
40:49
SPEAKER_00: And we talk about this a lot also as a sales team about like the customers that come really easy with deep pockets and want to buy lots of stuff, they are probably gonna leave you just as easily.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you actually work in sales, you know they're better than me.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that all of those things are really good reminders.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the principles that salespeople can take away from this is like if the thing that, you know, is kind of the hang up right now is something that you are not gonna be able to compromise on.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: So if that's price, if that's a certain feature, if that's a certain product or service or what have you, you know, I'm trying to think of contractors here, obviously.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: If there's something that you cannot offer, start asking yourself and looking at the situation from different lenses to say, okay, I can offer that.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: And if you've like tried your hardest and you know, okay, I just can't do that, then pause it, set it down, move on.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: But what can I offer?
41:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think the way that you find the the cracked open door there is to build a genuine relationship.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Because for me, like, you know, when I've hit the road with you guys as salespeople, some of the most valuable lessons that I learn on the road, and then I come back and I bring to the marketing team and and we run with are in those tiny little forgotten moments that you almost like you, if you weren't there, you never would have remembered it.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: You would have missed it completely, right?
42:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think that a good salesperson is gonna be very like keenly aware and and just tuned into looking for those little tiny things that you go, ah, that is something that I know me, my company, whatever, we do exceptionally well.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: That's something that the customer suffers from, and it's a pain point.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: And again, sometimes the customer knows it, and it's even better for you if the customer doesn't know it and you can point it out and now you're make them feel the pain.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: But I think that you only get there through genuine relationship with your customers, right?
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, that that is easy to forget, I think.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think even in the situation with that customer that that we had, it was something that when we came back and put a package together, like Postart really hasn't done, you know, did done what we did as far as a package to that customer.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: But it was also like, I guess from the other side of that, like don't be afraid to like propose something to your manager, like and see if it's something we can do.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Because like I had a feeling that we could, if we could do what we proposed to them, we were gonna win that business.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: But it was something that, like, hey, we had to send it up the ladder to get approved because it hadn't really been done before.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: And now like we're not gonna do that all the time, right?
43:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, that shouldn't be what you're trying to go lead with, but like, hey, you find a pain point and and understand where they're having issues, and I think for contractors, like if you're dealing with a homeowner or whatever, like understanding what really is the issue and not just trying to make a buck.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: And that can be really easy to do, right?
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Like it can be really easy to just go try to make a dollar and not be genuine in it.
43:40
SPEAKER_01: And again, like we're just getting back to what we talked about the whole time, like being upfront and honest and having some integrity, like that just goes a long way.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: Like, yep, it it's so easy and it's to say, but like just being an upfront and honest person.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're looking not to treat the symptom but the sickness, right?
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Exactly right.
43:56
SPEAKER_00: You don't want to just take them at face value, you want to Deeply understand that customer and okay, what is the real thing that's going on here, right?
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I mean we've talked about that a lot as a sales team, about like you know, not necessarily asking customers when you meet them, oh, what's keeping you up at night?
44:15
SPEAKER_00: But instead being so well versed in our customers' uh businesses that we actually can inform them, here's what should be keeping you up at night, right?
44:25
SPEAKER_00: And again, the the uh underlying foundation of that, I just feel that it is important to say again and again, is not to do that out of uh selfish ambition and out of manipulation to get what you want in the long term, right?
44:39
SPEAKER_00: It is out of the genuine best interest of the customer, which I think um preferred maybe sketchy salespeople, that that's how you can approach it.
44:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's that's unfortunate when that happens, right?
44:54
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, dealing with rejection, you've talked a lot about that.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: I would imagine that you were, I don't know, maybe you were not born with super thick skin.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's is it true that that is a skill that you learn or you can learn?
45:12
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, yeah, some people are might have more of it than others, but is that a skill you can learn?
45:16
SPEAKER_00: And if so, if I'm a thin-skinned salesperson today, where do I start to try to get better at hearing no?
45:24
SPEAKER_01: I think just well, first of all, just knowing you're gonna hear no.
45:27
SPEAKER_01: Like it's just gonna happen every day that you pick up a phone and call somebody, like you're getting a no, right?
45:31
SPEAKER_01: Like I was just on the on the road last week and had 20 plus meetings, and there may be like five real opportunities out of those 20 plus meetings.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: So, like understanding that that's a quarter of of my time that I spent that's gonna produce real fruit, but like I'm still laying the groundwork.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean the other 15, the 20 that I had won't ever be anything.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm laying groundwork to eventually do something there.
45:52
SPEAKER_01: So, no, I did not have thick skin.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: I was the youngest of all the boy cousins in my family, and I got picked on quite a lot, and I had very thin skin and wanted to fight back a lot, and so I had to develop that little bit of thick skin, right?
46:04
SPEAKER_01: And so, but in sales, just when I first started, it was tough.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, you you know, before I was doing procurement or running a trucking company, it was very just like, hey, you got a project to do, you have your work to do that day, get it done and and move on.
46:18
SPEAKER_01: And sales is yeah, you can have the amount of calls you want to make in a day, but like you never really know what's gonna happen day to day.
46:25
SPEAKER_01: Like you can make a call and it can lead to the best deal you've ever done, or you could have 20 calls in a day that lead to absolutely nowhere and it's just no after no.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think that can wear on you.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: And so when I first got in, it was like just a slap across the face like over and over.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what am I doing wrong?
46:38
SPEAKER_01: And there were things that I was doing wrong.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think that's something too for especially young salespeople getting in, is like you're not perfect.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: Like you're yes, you can talk and have conversations, but there's a lot more to it than just being able to carry on a conversation.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: And so, like going into it knowing, like, hey, let me let me talk to a customer, let me how am I gonna approach this call?
46:58
SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't work, like going back and realizing, hey, I did this wrong, or maybe I said this in a way that wasn't uh a good way to have a conversation with a customer, or recording yourself and practicing in the mirror, like doing these things to get better.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then the no's just become like a learning experience.
47:15
SPEAKER_01: Like that's just how you can look at it.
47:17
SPEAKER_01: Don't look at it as, oh, I'm never doing business with that customer, or I suck at this.
47:21
SPEAKER_01: Like just look at it as a uh, hey, I can learn from every no that I get, and then I can learn from every yes that I get too.
47:28
SPEAKER_01: Like just always being able to go look in the mirror and go, how can I get better?
47:31
SPEAKER_01: And if you have that attitude, eventually like the no's just become like whatever, it just is what it is, just part of the gig, and we'll we'll move on.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and sometimes I can go, oh, that customer, it was that person's fault.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: And then, but most of the time it's like, no, I I probably should have been better.
47:45
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I've heard different people uh at Boshnard say it, but no's are free.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes, quite often, anyways, right?
47:51
SPEAKER_00: You can have a no that turns into the loss of business.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: So try to avoid those ones.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: But in general, yeah, like quite often there's uh not a whole lot of danger to asking.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: There's a guy, uh, there's this book I read.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can't think of his name, but uh, I believe it was the guy who wrote the book.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, his big book was called Million Dollar Weekend.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: And he got super well known.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like Keegan, some anyways.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: I think he worked for Facebook at one point with Mark Zuckerberg when there was like 15 people at the company, whatever.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: But this guy, part of why he's like well known and has an internet presence is he will like stand outside of an airplane hangar uh at like a pot at a big airport where he knows there's private jets and people with a lot of money flying in and out.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: And he'll catch like a millionaire, billionaire as they're walking to their jet and just go, Hey, what's up?
48:41
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm I think his name is Noah Keegan or Keegan, Noah, something like that.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: He says, Hey, I'm Noah, I'm Keegan, whatever.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: And uh, can I have a free ride?
48:48
SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes they'll go, no.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Okay, cool, thanks.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like have a good day.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: I hope you get where you're going safely.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: But he's like, There have been many times that they go, uh, where are you going?
48:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I'll go with you.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
49:00
SPEAKER_00: And he like gets a free ride on a private jet because he was just standing there and he asked.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: And confident to ask.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: And confident enough to ask.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, when you see him, if you ever watch any like podcasts with him, he like just to look at him, you're like, he looks like a nice, friendly guy.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: He's like got a good smile, and he seems like a guy that, like, if he's told no, it's just gonna roll off his back.
49:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not gonna ruin his day, it's not gonna screw up his whole week or his month, it's not gonna misforecast and like, and he's you know, he'd be the first guy to tell you he's made all kinds of mistakes and done a lot of wrong things, but also done a lot of right and awesome things.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, what we're we're talking about here, I think is just interesting and it's reminding me of that.
49:38
SPEAKER_00: That if you go into a situation expecting a no, it's a lot less disappointing to get it.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: And then a yes is that much more exciting and thrilling, and you gotta like play it cool.
49:47
SPEAKER_00: Poker face is okay.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't want to be desperate.
49:50
unknown: Yeah.
49:51
SPEAKER_00: Call your mom right there.
49:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're gonna follow you.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: That's what I did.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: That's what's been used to dad for the day.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: Maybe don't do that.
49:58
SPEAKER_00: But again, when you're going into it expecting rejection, when you get it, you're like, oh yeah, there it is.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: I was expecting that, right?
50:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, I I feel like we've talked about this in different sales training that we've done uh as a team.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time, right?
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh eat the frog is another one, always eating animals, I guess.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: But like, just like you just gotta do it.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: You just gotta kind of get comfortable.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: There's there, there are tricks and ways to do it better, but at the end of the day, uh, correct me if I'm wrong, you're gonna feel uncomfortable, it's gonna suck.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: You just gotta exactly repeat yourself, you gotta jump in, you gotta do it.
50:35
SPEAKER_01: Get comfortable being uncomfortable.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: Is that what Tim says all the time?
50:38
SPEAKER_01: Get comfortable being and we practice everything else.
50:40
SPEAKER_01: Like when you grow up, if you play a sport or you dance, or you you were a photographer and doing weddings, and I'm sure it was super stressful.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: And the first time you did it, you were probably like, oh, I just ruined their wedding day.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but like you practice and you like we practice everything else, so why not practice this?
50:55
SPEAKER_01: And this goes for any career, but specifically sales, like because we're talking about it.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, practice, practice every day.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, and that can be a live practice, like calling a customer, being in front of them, like that.
51:06
SPEAKER_01: That is practice sometimes, or just looking in the mirror.
51:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, my wife uh, you know, I I practice on her sometimes and and having conversations, and sometimes she knows, sometimes she doesn't.
51:18
SPEAKER_01: I never win.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm always wrong.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: But you know, like there's you can practice on like your kids, they don't know, but like just how you can ask questions to get better answers and and it works in everyday life.
51:29
SPEAKER_01: So like just practice.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: Like you practice everything else in your life.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, I've often said that like all of life is sales, right?
51:35
SPEAKER_00: You know this as a father as well, right?
51:37
SPEAKER_00: Trying to get your kids to eat their dinner is sales.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: Exactly right.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: You want ice cream?
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, it isn't my daughter.
51:43
SPEAKER_00: Betty, you can have ice cream, but you need to finish your pasta.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, pasta or pizza.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm forcing pizza down your throat.
51:49
SPEAKER_00: You don't even know how good you have it, right?
51:50
SPEAKER_01: Just wait until you hit your 30s, kid.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: Oh, my middle son, we always had to do the the opposite, like the don't you better not eat that food.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: And then you start taking bites.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what is this reverse psychology?
52:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's another guy.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: So if you have a talent for uh getting your kids to eat dinner, you might have a few trades sales.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: That's maybe what we're saying.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: Well, man, I oh, dude, we can just talk for hours and hours.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: This has been so good.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering, like, you know, okay, so for anyone that's listening to this episode, uh, this is often the last question I'll ask people because um I think it's uh a really interesting one quite often.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: What is like if someone was listening to this episode, they forgot everything they heard, but they remember the last thing that you're gonna tell them.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: What is the biggest thing that you think people need to not forget about sales in general, maybe, but um persistence in sales?
52:36
SPEAKER_00: So whether that's like um knowing when to pursue a deal, when to call it quits, um changing their tactic, being told no, like what is what is the big idea here that people should take home or the big thing, maybe the you know, your your hot take about like, hey, don't forget to do this or don't forget to try this or can it be really, really simple?
52:55
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
52:56
SPEAKER_01: Show up, just just show up.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: Just every day, you know, like we said, we've been talking about the whole time, like you're gonna get told no a ton.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: And some days it's hard to be like, man, I gotta do this all over again.
53:07
SPEAKER_01: But like just show up because you never know that next that next knock on a door, the next phone call, the next text message you send or email you send could be the one that starts a deal that is the biggest deal you've ever had in your life, or or could be another no.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: But like if you just show up, you you'll find out pretty quick.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: So, like that just every day just going, hey man, uh you know, new day, fresh start, and let's let's let's kick today's butt.
53:29
SPEAKER_00: Well said, man.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: We'll leave it there.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: Hunter, this is a such a pleasure, man.
53:33
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being on the show and uh let's do this again sometime, man.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: Next time I can.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: Once a year.
53:37
SPEAKER_01: I told Julie, at least once a year I'll be here.
53:39
SPEAKER_01: So once a year.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: Once a year.
53:40
SPEAKER_01: All right.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: Sounds good, buddy.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: Better than every three years.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: All right, sounds good, man.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: And that is our episode.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: We hope that you enjoyed it.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't yet, head to contractorly.co, get signed up for an account.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: You can watch all of our previous episodes of the podcast.
53:54
SPEAKER_00: Make sure that you're signed up for the weekly newsletter where you'll get exclusive content, new podcast episodes, and stuff straight to your email inbox.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: Also, make sure to subscribe to the Contractor Lead podcast on your favorite streaming platform, whether that's Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: And until then, we will catch you in the next one.