Latest / College Is Fine, Everything's Fine / #83 When Meditation Gets Uncomfortable: What a Week of Meditation Taught Me with Ginger Koehler

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#83 When Meditation Gets Uncomfortable: What a Week of Meditation Taught Me with Ginger Koehler · College Is Fine, Everything's Fine

College Is Fine Podcast (00:00.656) to make Sarah do a little mini introduction. We like to alternate each podcast. So it's your turn, Sarah. Sarah (00:04.333) Yes. Sarah (00:08.598) It's my turn. Well, I, I started 100 % of the ones before like two weeks ago. So just, I'm just putting that out there. all right. I'm so excited. I know I say this every week, but, I, well, I mean it every week, but this week it's a little different. actually stumbled upon an article on her campus that really hit me because our guests today, stopped talked about something really openly that I hear a lot in session. College Is Fine Podcast (00:12.584) Sarah (00:38.494) So her name is Ginger. I'd love her to introduce herself and talk about the article that just made me rush out to find her and grab her as a guest. So hi, Ginger. Ginger Koehler (00:52.296) Yeah, this was an interesting article to write, very different than my normal stuff, but just to introduce myself, hi. I'm Ginger Kohler, and I'm a lot of different things, but for the sake of this, I'm a journalist. And I write for her campus, stated, which is a magazine for mostly targeted towards collegiate women. And I 99 % of the time write about sex. That's my shtick. I'm a sex educator. So I like, I'm thing. Yes, I mostly speak to college students, so that would be great. so I am in the wellness department and usually I'm getting, Ginger talk about what it's like to get an STI test for the first time. Ginger talk about the positions that are trending. But for some reason, my editor decided that she was going to. Sarah (01:22.626) Hot, woo! We'll have you back on to talk about that later. Ginger Koehler (01:51.314) have me do an I tried it, which is something we do sometimes. The first I tried it I ever did was eating an orange in the shower, which was, it's apparently good for mental health. I didn't feel that way because I don't like oranges. So. Sarah (01:58.912) Hmm. Point being... Sarah (02:06.67) Liz, should we, I don't know if we need to do a deep dive on the effectiveness of eating oranges in the shower, but sure. Ginger Koehler (02:12.86) Right. College Is Fine Podcast (02:13.01) I know. Ginger Koehler (02:16.296) But yeah, so I've been thrown on some interesting I tried it mental health journeys and this one was to meditate every morning for a week. College Is Fine Podcast (02:17.786) interesting. Ginger Koehler (02:30.248) And I think that my editor thought this would be a calming experience for me and thought this would be like a nice, easy article to write. And it just proved to be completely the opposite of that for me. I consider myself to be a very... I'm in a great place mentally 99 % of the time. I really think... Yeah, I just like... Sarah (02:34.478) Mm-hmm. Sarah (02:43.522) Ha ha. Sarah (02:54.456) Congrats, you beat me. Ginger Koehler (02:58.864) I kind of am a positive poly and I'm pretty low stress. So I don't go to therapy, I don't do anything like that, which maybe I should, right? But I haven't experienced much. Sarah (03:11.662) Everyone should be in therapy, Ginger. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. College Is Fine Podcast (03:13.746) You Ginger Koehler (03:17.768) was like, no sweat, I'll meditate, whatever. But the thing is, I don't like sitting still at all. I'm just an energetic person, so I was already like, oh, that's not great. And then breathing exercises were not ideal because I bronchitis and I have asthma, so every time I get sick, it's just the, I'm like, ah, ah, all the time. Sarah (03:21.164) Yeah, I got this. Sarah (03:25.25) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (03:37.768) Mm. Sarah (03:44.631) Yeah. Well, let me actually, can I ask a question just based on something you just said? You said meditation and then you said breathing exercises. So when you got this assignment, what did you think meditation was? Kind of off the top of your head. Ginger Koehler (03:47.664) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (03:55.688) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (03:58.888) Yes, knew it involved a lot of just like sitting and thinking or not thinking depending on how you play it. But I wasn't 100 % sure. So I had brought in an expert. I wish I remembered her name. I'm sure it's in the article, but she, I think it was a lady. Sarah (04:10.541) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (04:21.9) She was an expert in yoga and meditation and had worked in that field for long time. And she just gave me some pretty simple stuff to start out with. It really on paper is very simple. I just made it very complicated. she was like, I believe the instructions were to try aim for like 15 minutes of sitting. can do static stretches if you want. She suggested some different poses. Sarah (04:32.142) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (04:51.73) try to clear your mind, but if not that, focus on gratitude, try to do it in silence, which is all seemingly very easy and good, but it was just for me, I think like the first day I just couldn't do it the whole time. I didn't get very far through, I got really bored, but I did like that it got me off my phone, that was really nice. Sarah (05:05.836) Mm-hmm Sarah (05:13.048) Yep. College Is Fine Podcast (05:20.028) Mm-hmm. Sarah (05:20.416) Okay, good first step. Ginger Koehler (05:20.488) because that's something I struggle with. Yeah, I really want to get off of technology and I have a lot of screen time. I've tried a lot of different things, this being one of them. Sarah (05:30.622) Okay. But easier said than done in terms of just be still, try to focus on gratitude, et cetera. I'll push pause. Her name is Amanda McCarroll. College Is Fine Podcast (05:32.507) Right. Ginger Koehler (05:34.152) Yeah. Yeah, so I already- Yeah, please. College Is Fine Podcast (05:42.94) McCarroll, yes, McCarroll. Ginger Koehler (05:44.36) know, Amanda McKerrell. Yeah, she gave great advice. Really did. I'm just a terrible subject, but I... Yeah, so I already was kind of struggling with some of the basic stuff just because, probably because the social media, I have a short attention span and I'm very jumpy and I not get up breathing exercises because I don't have great lungs. I like the stretching. I like the gratitude aspect, but it ended up... Sarah (06:08.717) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (06:13.618) throwing me into a complete mental breakdown because, well, I guess I should share a little more about my background is that I graduated from UF in August. So I'm a little bit post-grad and the second I left post-grad, I had a travel job lined up for about three months. So I was on the road for Sarah (06:18.464) Whoa. College Is Fine Podcast (06:18.579) gosh. Sarah (06:29.944) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (06:42.834) three months pretty much, like flying different places. And that kept me really busy. And then the second I got home, I was really sick. My friends all have jobs and I've been told sit and think. And the only thing I can think is, my God, I have nothing. Like my job just ended and now I'm this person who's like, I'm trying to start a business, it's, the motivation's hard. Sarah (06:45.742) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (06:54.266) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (06:58.376) Mm. Sarah (07:01.806) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (07:12.04) And I'm a writer, but when I write, I'm alone. I think the meditation is partially, I don't know if it's, it's not to blame. To blame is a lot, but I do think it was the catalyst and I lost my marbles and my parents were like, girl, you need to get outside. So more distraction. College Is Fine Podcast (07:16.017) Yeah. Sarah (07:32.11) More distraction, more distraction. And actually I'll share that one of the things one of my clients said at some point was my mind is a dangerous neighborhood. I don't like to walk in alone. Yeah. And it's also just a reminder that some of the things that we can say that we think is really great advice and pretty basic and standard, the intent might be good, a good intent, but the impact is to give you apparently a mental breakdown. College Is Fine Podcast (07:32.988) You Ginger Koehler (07:45.746) Totally. yeah. Sarah (08:01.518) Because you didn't have, you didn't expect maybe to be, like have an onslaught of thoughts per se. Ginger Koehler (08:09.308) Yeah, yeah, and I think I definitely am glad I did it because I do think I was able to take some things that I like out of it. I mean, I definitely like taking some moments to think about gratitude or to like stretch and not be on my phone, maybe put on an audiobook. Like, that's nice. And I also I do think it's important to just have silence, like to not be listening to music or have a podcast on or whatever and just have time to think. But I think Sarah (08:18.595) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (08:27.644) Mm-hmm. Sarah (08:28.589) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (08:36.539) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (08:39.272) For me, I need to be doing something with my hands. Like, I can do that if I'm painting or if I'm cleaning or driving, but just sitting and thinking and not doing anything, ew, ew, wasn't for me. Sarah (08:42.062) Mm-hmm. Sarah (08:56.79) Well, and the other part, you said I couldn't do it for a long period of time. And I think your experience is one that, and Liz's. I'd be curious to hear. I'm going to guess we have similar experiences. So one is, you know, what is mindfulness or what is meditation? I think one myth that I get or misconception is that there is a difference between mindfulness and meditation, right? So we define mindfulness as being in the present moment as purposefully as you can without judgment, not pros and cons of the experience of just kind of noticing without judgment. And obviously, you know, that's kind of a quick hit on that. And meditation is more of a specific practice that has an element to it. So mindfulness is something you want to bring to a meditation practice, but you can also be mindful separately without it being meditation. So I think part of when I think of meditation, when people say it, try to meditate, it's like saying like, okay, try to run. Okay. Well, how long? College Is Fine Podcast (09:48.497) Right. Sarah (10:01.25) What do I need to do first? Do I have the right shoes? Do I know the directions? You do really need, if you're starting from scratch, mean, Liz has been running her whole life, right? She runs marathons. She like looks like a gazelle. I, on the other hand, you know, it's a little bit of a fit and start. So if you think about meditation, right, there's some people who've been doing it their whole lives, who've just have that sort of in their skillset and other people where it's completely new to them. Ginger Koehler (10:02.152) I hate you. Sarah (10:29.762) But I think what ends up happening is people assume they're quote unquote not good at it when really they don't realize it's a muscle that you, you have to improve, right? No one's just going to start off being mindful or having a strong meditation practice without some, some skill and some work. It's a muscle. And sometimes you have to start with one minute at a time. So I think that what I hear is it's like, you kind of got like a quick hit, some really great strategies, but without maybe getting to know and what you've gotten to know is the type of meditation practice that works for you. Right. College Is Fine Podcast (10:59.453) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (11:04.424) I definitely like the way you put it as a skill because... I find that for myself in any circumstance, if there is a skill that I am thrown into the deep end of and without beginners, whatever I need to start off, I give up very easily. think, oh, I can't do this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Whereas if I ease myself into the water, like I'm, I usually am excited and like things and you know, I think I would definitely give it another try, especially, I think it was just kind of a recipe for disaster because I was in this Sarah (11:21.717) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (11:39.286) really awkward moment in my life and it was like just sit and think I think if you told me to do it today I'd probably come out of it like thumbs up, you know It could have been if you threw a dart at the board You would have had to a bullseye to hit that particular day for me to have that particular reaction But I do just in general agree that With the sitting still I still probably wouldn't be able to fully sit still the full 15 minutes in yoga class. my god my yoga Sarah (11:58.293) Uh-huh. Sarah (12:06.766) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (12:09.096) a teacher is always like, Ginger, what's up with you? can't, it's like the only skill you can't do is lying flat on your back. That's weird. Oi. Sarah (12:11.204) hahahaha Sarah (12:16.408) You're like Savasana, man. Come on, more Savasana. Oi! College Is Fine Podcast (12:24.424) think there's so many things, Ginger, you said about, and I find this with college students, particularly with like meditation, it's everywhere, like meditation and mindfulness. You know, I do think that a lot of these practices are over romanticized, but they're also at the same time, under explained in terms of if this is going to be a habit that I'm going to practice consistently. I think there is so much hetero. you know, heterogeneous kind of like reactions to like what's going on with meditation that people need like some more guardrails. And it seems like for you, the hardest part, which meditation is supposed to do is increasing your awareness to your experience. And for you, you had like a train wreck of thoughts that really elicited a lot of negative emotions for you. Right. And you are like, what am I supposed to do with these? This is such like an unpleasant kind of state to be in. Ginger Koehler (13:03.869) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (13:12.843) totally. College Is Fine Podcast (13:19.546) as well as this other part, which I think, again, I have friends who go on like these silent meditative retreats for like four days that also involve sitting. Right. And I'm like, how would my back like, how do you sit and not talk for hours? Right. So it is a muscle that like we can definitely build. And I'm wondering if you're like thinking about it, knowing your experience and if like you're talking to a college, you know, student and they were like interested in meditation. Ginger Koehler (13:19.772) Right. Ginger Koehler (13:31.984) Yeah! College Is Fine Podcast (13:49.66) Can you think of anything that you wish you would have known or like how to make it maybe more bite size? What would you say to them? Would you say absolutely not? It was traumatic. Don't do it or. Ginger Koehler (13:56.029) Yeah... I would ju- Ginger Koehler (14:01.104) No, I wouldn't say that. I would say to practice free will with meditation. I think going into it with a specific set of expectations of what it should look like, like, okay, I need XYZ minutes. I need to do this thought process or no thoughts or no or sitting up straight or stretching like this. Like I read a really great book called Atomic Habits this summer and it's a great one. I think about it a lot when you talk about building meditation as a habit because when I was going into it, I was just like, I have to get through the week. But if I wanted to build as a habit, College Is Fine Podcast (14:16.604) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (14:20.838) Yeah. Sarah (14:24.929) yeah. Ginger Koehler (14:35.888) Something that he suggests a lot is sometimes your first goal is not to complete a certain amount, it's just to show up. Like if you meditate for 10 seconds and that's all you can do your first week every day, that's fine because you're building the habit of showing up to do it. So by the end of it, once my crash out was coming to a close, I was enjoying the... Sarah (14:43.278) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (14:43.442) Yeah. Yeah. Sarah (14:50.732) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (14:57.96) Stretching I love stretching. I like thinking about gratitude Like those are and I went for five minutes and I was like no pressure, you know, like I I know I'm not gonna full 15 at this point So whatever if you five and I'm not on my phone, I'm gonna feel good about it So I think I mean those guidelines that she gave were were great I mean, I think they're definitely standard for beginner, but if if you're like me and it just You need a little bit Sarah (15:08.055) Yes. College Is Fine Podcast (15:10.428) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (15:27.624) more of a tip, put your pinky toe in the water instead of a whole foot. Like just, I mean, just try it for a little. In the second you say, I don't want to do it, get up. Like that's all you got to do. College Is Fine Podcast (15:30.598) Yeah. Yeah. Sarah (15:31.554) Mm-hmm. Sarah (15:40.142) Right, right. Yeah, I think I love the idea of pinky toe and actually practice free will with meditation I think is brilliant because so many people just assume that it's got to be this one personality type or this one type of exercise and they're like no no not for me and by the way if you had told me when I was your age that I would be doing a podcast advocating for meditation I would have been like that is hilarious there's no way I would have laughed you out of the room College Is Fine Podcast (15:50.376) Mm-hmm, yeah. Sarah (16:07.446) because I think I had the same ideas about what it was. And then obviously it was just shoved down my throat in grad school. was like, will practice this. But over time it was like, I can't, Ginger, like you said, I can practice free will here. It doesn't have to look like a certain thing. It doesn't have to be a four day silent retreat. It can be a lot of different things. And also you can kind of mix it up. You don't have to do the same thing necessarily every day. For some people that can be really important, they want that discipline. College Is Fine Podcast (16:36.989) Right. Sarah (16:37.282) that ability to do it at the beginning sets their tone of the day. Other people, that's not going to work. So I love that idea that you kind of are taking pieces of it. I also think I'm curious. You said I was kind of alone with my thoughts and your parents said I had to get my shit together and not to quote one of the best movies about emotions of all time inside out, but is there actually something that came out of your quote unquote breakdown that gave you information you needed. Ginger Koehler (17:12.316) Yeah, I definitely think so. And I think it was something that was going to build up either way, but just like sitting with my thoughts was the thing that was able to. College Is Fine Podcast (17:19.174) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (17:22.342) like bring it out and I'm very solution oriented and I think my parents are the same way and so they're not necessarily the like when they saw me upset they were shocked because I very rarely am and they didn't know where it was coming from and you know we tried to get to bottom of it and it took a couple tries like I had we were it was like all right let's just let's start your own business a little bit more let's make a plan and do that every day and I was doing that and then I crashed out again two weeks later and that wasn't enough and what we kind of came to the conclusion of is that I wasn't having enough social interaction. Like when you're a writer and then you suddenly, I was in a sorority in college, I worked for three, four magazines, I just did everything. I'm a social butterfly, I always have been and having that ripped away from me, like right under my feet was very College Is Fine Podcast (18:10.172) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (18:22.236) jarring and like when I was able to travel for a few months I was solo traveling but I was doing things I was working there's people there I have co-workers right and then just being at home with my family in a place I haven't lived in four years all my friends are gone like Sarah (18:32.046) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (18:36.38) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (18:39.386) I think a lot of people go through that in post-grad. what we did, my parents said, now, like they fully, thankfully support me with trying to build my own business. They were like, we think you need a job just to meet people. So I went from being like, just doing my own thing every day. Now I have two jobs. I love them. They are the freaking best. I work at a craft store and I teach people how to paint and I'm a prom dress consultant. So I dress teenage girls up like Barbie dolls. Sarah (18:52.684) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (18:52.732) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (19:04.924) Ginger Koehler (19:09.29) It is so fun. So honestly, I don't think I would be doing either those things right now if I hadn't. Sarah (19:09.454) my god. College Is Fine Podcast (19:15.837) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (19:16.284) freaking hell out from meditating. you know, I definitely think there was good stuff that came from like grappling with my emotions. But I would say if anybody is thinking, should I meditate? Maybe take a moment and say, are you ready to feel some big feelings? Because like if I felt it and I'm not big on like big feelings, then anyone's susceptible. I can tell you that much. College Is Fine Podcast (19:33.318) Mm-hmm. Sarah (19:37.807) Hahaha Sarah (19:42.836) That's right. College Is Fine Podcast (19:43.77) It was like a label warning in terms of potential adverse consequences from meditation. Ginger Koehler (19:46.632) Totally like if you're having a busy work week, maybe don't Sarah (19:47.278) Side effects may include a crash out. College Is Fine Podcast (19:52.922) Yeah. I do think that at least something like important to highlight, which this is what we know from science around meditation is that, and behavioral changes is that like you have to have awareness to make behavioral changes, right? So maybe if you're in a place where you really are confused, I'm thinking for a college student or, you know, maybe overwhelmed and not really sure why you're so overwhelmed, meditation. Ginger Koehler (20:12.392) Absolutely. College Is Fine Podcast (20:22.776) might be a source of help to kind of help guide you in directions, you know, in terms of the next steps, which it seems like it did for you. It was like an unexpected consequence that was aversive, but then actually might have been the catalyst for change that helped you kind of, you know, make a plan in terms of this kind of crossroads you're at. Ginger Koehler (20:32.54) Good luck. Ginger Koehler (20:36.072) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (20:43.804) Yeah, 100%. And I think the only thing that was like so, the reason it was so jarring was because I think everyone talks about meditation as, it'll calm you down. You know, it will calm you. But, yeah, maybe if you are trying to do that thing where you take all thoughts out of your brain, maybe that's the case, but I don't think I have that capability. I feel like a lot of people might feel the same way. And it's just, College Is Fine Podcast (20:54.758) Yeah, such a mess. Sarah (20:57.453) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (21:13.072) I wouldn't advertise it as inherently calming, for sure. Especially as a beginner. I think it's one of those things that, as you said, it's like a skill, and you build the skill up to be able to get, take everything out of your brain and be calm and whatever, but like at the beginning, you're not going on a slope down, you are going on a like... You're thinking a lot, you're thinking more than you'd ever think in your normal life and then you're able to bring it down. It's not like you think like normal and it goes, now, now, it's not. There's a big learning curve. Gets worse, gets better. College Is Fine Podcast (21:39.634) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (21:47.376) Right. Yeah. It really is such a myth. I think a lot of people are upset when they don't achieve relaxation from meditation. It's actually like a happy byproduct at times, but it's definitely not the goal. And I think your experience is really helpful for students to kind of understand that when you do remove distractions and you slow things down. your thoughts are probably gonna get louder, your anxiety might get greater, right? Because you are kind of, you know, peeling back the curtain to like what actually is going on in your mind and your body that you might be able to kind of distract from because you have so many other things competing in a chaotic kind of campus environment. Ginger Koehler (22:28.604) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (22:32.572) Yeah, and I also think... sorry. I think a big part of it too is... Sarah (22:32.726) I also think that... Go ahead, Ginger. Ginger Koehler (22:40.338) thinking by yourself and that being you don't have anyone to comfort you and say, all right, well, let's think about it from a different perspective or whatever. So I would say at least because I need to talk things out. If I think about something totally by myself, I can totally end of the world it do spiral like all that stuff is highly plausible when I do go down a rabbit hole every every year or so. But College Is Fine Podcast (22:49.436) Yeah. Sarah (23:08.078) Your annual crash out, is that what we're saying? Ginger Koehler (23:10.456) annual crash out. It really is for me. But I think maybe post game the meditation with a chat with a friend, go to coffee, call your mom, call your therapist even better. College Is Fine Podcast (23:22.13) Hmm, yeah. Yeah, I love that idea. Sarah (23:26.286) Yeah, I actually, I was just to piggyback off that is the other piece to this is that meditation is not going to be a cure all for things too. If you're going through a really, you know, a major crisis to your point, this big transition, you didn't know what was going on with all these different changes in your life and losses of your friends kind of having jobs or you being in a different place or their friends moving away. Um, Well, you're not gonna be able to kind of fix that with a 15 minute meditation exercise, right? That there are other skills or helpers that you need. You needed your parents to come in and say, hey, this isn't like you. So that idea of, for some people it might be kind of a post meditation check-in, or it might be, sometimes I'll say to people if they've done an exercise that makes them feel. Ginger Koehler (24:11.72) Yeah. Sarah (24:17.89) really revved up, might say, so now let's finish this when you leave our session or our conversation, do something that's more self care. So I love that idea. And I think you're right on the mark of noticing that doing this, if you decide to do it and you think it's worthwhile, it will be met with other things that you might need to include or do more of. College Is Fine Podcast (24:25.768) Mm-hmm. Sarah (24:39.586) to balance some of the thoughts that might come up because a lot of us are dealing with things through just avoiding thoughts that are uncomfortable, distract, distract, distract, keep busy, busy, busy, busy. Yeah, you slow down some things might come up. I love that you brought in your parents or that you said, I need to now be more in a job that's more social. So that's, that's huge information. And I'd love that you were so honest about it. I really appreciate. And then your article, you did say, Hey, give it a shot. College Is Fine Podcast (25:04.753) Yeah. Sarah (25:08.502) right? That this is something that it might work for you. and your expectations, you said at the end, made me feel like meditating has to be super serious, and particular, but free will exists. So after our conversation, are your, are you thinking about meditation in a way that could be even more playful or active? said the stretching, the walking, what are things? College Is Fine Podcast (25:26.684) He Ginger Koehler (25:33.992) Absolutely. also, think something that I obviously I some things I like. I liked the stretching. I like the gratitude, right? That was a big one for me that I liked. And I do like having some time to think, but it's just about kind of actively doing something. Are you guys familiar with the Call Her Daddy podcast? College Is Fine Podcast (25:42.888) Gratitude. College Is Fine Podcast (25:53.97) Mm-hmm. Of course. Sarah (25:57.376) yeah. Ginger Koehler (25:58.412) Yes, I love Miss Alex Cooper and obviously she's kind of renowned for being raunchy and that's what I loved her for initially, but she's been doing these like Sunday episodes where you try to learn about something with her, I like, and one that really inspired me was she talked to her therapist about how she wasn't able to sleep at night, which I struggle with. It takes me forever to get to sleep, my mind's jumping everywhere. College Is Fine Podcast (26:11.441) Mm-hmm. Sarah (26:12.194) Mm-hmm. Sarah (26:19.246) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (26:20.616) Mm-hmm. College Is Fine Podcast (26:24.028) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (26:24.833) And she said that what her therapist tells her, says, do you ever have silence? Do you ever turn off the podcast, turn off the music, just. College Is Fine Podcast (26:33.277) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (26:33.576) clean your room in silence and listen to yourself. And I think that's maybe that mindfulness rather than meditation that you guys were talking about. But I've definitely tried to implement that in my life because I have a habit of listening to an audiobook 24 seven because I love reading. I love all that stuff. I think just finding activity for me, it's just like finding whether it's stretching or taking a nice walk with my dogs or doing art like. College Is Fine Podcast (26:40.028) Yeah. Sarah (26:40.994) Right. Ginger Koehler (27:03.56) Those are the types of things I can do in silence and work out some of those thoughts without it kind of ripping open my world, which I think is helpful. Yeah, there's a lot of things I think I could take from meditation. I am never going to be that person that sits crisscross applesauce for an hour and says woo woo and like... College Is Fine Podcast (27:07.112) Mm-hmm. Ginger Koehler (27:24.52) finds Nirvana. Like that's just not me and that's okay. I'm okay with that. But I think there's something to be taken from it and I would say like I mean I think people should experiment with it and but just not be afraid to take what you like. It's not that serious. That's the reality is it's not that serious. Sarah (27:26.99) Yeah. College Is Fine Podcast (27:39.665) Right. Sarah (27:40.077) Yeah. Sarah (27:44.278) Right, right. It doesn't have to be to your point this like, moment. It can be, you can do a playful meditation practice. You can do an active. Ginger Koehler (27:49.308) Bye. Sarah (27:56.042) meditation practice. There's a lot of variability in it. And so this, think that you know, Liz and I, Liz, we should sort of brainstorm, I think some ways to be like, all right, let's kind of have a few different versions potentially in the show notes so we can, or, you know, just make ChatGP do it for, I'm kidding. But just to give some of those first initial steps, cause it sounds like you had a great... College Is Fine Podcast (28:07.026) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (28:13.864) You Sarah (28:19.33) kind of introduction to it. And then now there's a, it's this thing of trying to find it and making it your own and all the people who are going to be listening here, I'm guessing have had, have some of these myths circling in their head or feel like I'll never be this way able to do it. It's like, first of all, okay, then no problem, right? Not everyone needs to have a meditation practice. Not everyone needs to practice mindfulness, but there's certainly some benefits to it. And so I feel like if people see it as doable, College Is Fine Podcast (28:33.436) Yeah. Sarah (28:49.194) or as a skill that they can learn and use when they need to, not that it's a cure all, but learn when they need to, along with some other things like being around friends or calling that person who is a good listener, then maybe more people will be able to hopefully not crashed out by it, thanks to your honesty, and to take some baby steps that feel achievable. Ginger Koehler (29:08.028) Great. Ginger Koehler (29:14.408) Yeah, and I think if anyone's gonna try meditation, I would recommend, know, maybe medi- I know meditation's supposed to be super chill, but for me meditation was vodka and the gratitude was like a chaser of Sprite. Like that's- that was it for me. So find your chaser, find what works, if that's saying three things that are good so you don't forget that everything isn't horrible. That might- that might be it for you! Sarah (29:27.9) Hahaha! Sarah (29:40.352) Right. And you're not saying just take a, take a big gulp of vodka. And if you can't meditate, just drink. I'm teasing. Ginger Koehler (29:45.796) Right. College Is Fine Podcast (29:45.936) Right. Ginger Koehler (29:49.768) Let's drink! That's the moral of the story. College Is Fine Podcast (29:50.664) I really... I really... Sarah (29:54.188) We'll edit that out because someone's going to find that quote and be like, Sarah says just a dream. College Is Fine Podcast (29:58.216) No, I mean, I appreciate that very college appropriate analogy. And hopefully, and Sarah, think it might be helpful to kind of like, think there's just a lot of myths that I think you were able to kind of dispel some of them and we can kind of educate, know, that we all don't need to be, you know, sitting with a mantra for 25 minutes a day. Sarah (30:06.414) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (30:06.514) Yeah, had to. Had to. College Is Fine Podcast (30:25.596) And that hopefully this isn't just like a trend for some people, there might be something like really simple for one, two minutes a day, like you said, maybe focusing on gratitude that might help increase awareness of your experience, positive emotions, whatever your goal is per se in terms of your practice. Ginger Koehler (30:25.714) Yeah. Sarah (30:43.126) Yeah. And I, I love your energy. And I think that I can see why you, that kind of natural kind of effervescence makes stillness difficult. But, but I appreciate also you saying like, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right? Like there, there are some good things to take from this. if, if gratitude doesn't work for you, cause you've heard that a thousand times. College Is Fine Podcast (30:45.957) Yeah College Is Fine Podcast (30:57.714) Yeah. Sarah (31:05.25) fine, don't feel like that's the only way to do it, to really personalize it, make it your own, practice your own free will. So Ginger, thank you so much. I'm glad you tried it and wrote about it so we could find you. College Is Fine Podcast (31:06.706) Yeah. Ginger Koehler (31:07.026) Okay. College Is Fine Podcast (31:12.722) Thank you, Ginger. Ginger Koehler (31:15.368) Yeah, me too! This was great. Thank you guys for reaching out. I usually, you know, talk about sex on these things, so this is nice change of pace. College Is Fine Podcast (31:18.97) Yes. Sarah (31:26.496) Yeah, well, and also we can have you back to talk about how to be mindful during sex, because there you go. know, be mindful and meditate while getting that STI test. Yeah, all sorts of applications. All right. Thanks, Ginger. College Is Fine Podcast (31:33.884) Okay. Ginger Koehler (31:38.248) Hey, there we go, there we go. College Is Fine Podcast (31:42.472) All right, thanks Ginger Hall. We're gonna press stop. Ginger, just wait. I forgot to say it's the beginning that everything has to upload. So just...