Latest / Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor / How to Rewire Your Stress Response in Minutes Using the Body-Brain Connection with Dr. Stan Rodski

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How to Rewire Your Stress Response in Minutes Using the Body-Brain Connection with Dr. Stan Rodski · Hardiness with Dr Paul Taylor

0:00
Speaker 1: If I can distract the brain long enough so that
0:04
Speaker 1: it gets some sense of control and get some sense
0:09
Speaker 1: of activity, not allowing me to think about anything else,
0:14
Speaker 1: then a remarkable thing happened in the brain.
0:28
Speaker 2: Doctor stan Rotsky, welcome to the podcast.
0:31
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
0:33
Speaker 2: It's an absolute pleasure, especially as you are an expert
0:37
Speaker 2: in the body brain connection. And I used to have
0:41
Speaker 2: a company called the Body Brain Performance Institute that then
0:44
Speaker 2: formed it to the Mind Body Brain Performance Institute. Let's
0:48
Speaker 2: talk all things body brain connection. Renny Descartes talked about dualism,
1:00
Speaker 2: that mind and body being separate entities, and we kind
1:05
Speaker 2: of know nigh that he did that because Galileo was
1:10
Speaker 2: persecuted by the Catholic Church for suggesting that the universe
1:13
Speaker 2: didn't go around the sun. So I think Descartes very
1:17
Speaker 2: quickly produced his dualism paper and said, the mind is
1:22
Speaker 2: the body are the realm of religion and the body
1:26
Speaker 2: is the realm of science.
1:28
Speaker 1: Now, Pa, I can't believe that, and I'm assuming an irishman,
1:33
Speaker 1: but bring Catholicism in so quickly into the discussion, I
1:42
Speaker 1: mean I could have taken a bit on it, and
1:45
Speaker 1: I would have made a fortune on that one immediately,
1:49
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, so well done. Yes I am.
1:54
Speaker 2: I am a self declared recovering Catholic from Northern Ireland.
1:59
Speaker 3: Try, but I think I think the point on this
2:03
Speaker 3: some I sorry, Sam, was that kind of the Catholic
2:06
Speaker 3: churchs at the time went all right, we'll accept that.
2:10
Speaker 2: So from that point on, if you were a scientist
2:12
Speaker 2: in the West, you only talked about the body and
2:15
Speaker 2: you didn't look like the Brian slash. Mind.
2:18
Speaker 1: No, you didn't then, and you still even in medicine
2:23
Speaker 1: up until g nineteen fifty sixties, even to today. You know,
2:29
Speaker 1: it's a it's still a dubious area in the old
2:33
Speaker 1: Cartesian ways of thinking. It's still so latent. With the proof,
2:41
Speaker 1: it's quite a spectacular area, really, and I just find
2:45
Speaker 1: it fascinating, you know, And it's fascinating from it because
2:49
Speaker 1: it's always at the heart of why why do these
2:53
Speaker 1: things happen? Why does someone who's depressed clinically speaking, under
3:00
Speaker 1: a DSM current version can't have a medical association, you know,
3:07
Speaker 1: they can't have a disease of any sort and still
3:13
Speaker 1: be labeled that way. It's quite fascinating, isn't it. So
3:18
Speaker 1: even though they say they've moved on proms here, it's
3:22
Speaker 1: still caught up in the psychiatric versus the physical medicine areas,
3:28
Speaker 1: and yet there's enough evidence coming through for us to
3:32
Speaker 1: know that it's more than just oh, I feel better
3:36
Speaker 1: because I'm physically better. Physically better means I'm mentally better,
3:41
Speaker 1: or I'm mentally not better because I'm so physically you know,
3:45
Speaker 1: there's the only connection that there is. But that's not
3:50
Speaker 1: the case. And that's where I'd like to say that
3:55
Speaker 1: it's proven, but it's not. It's still a big area
4:00
Speaker 1: of research, which is where I find myself these days,
4:03
Speaker 1: particularly in the areas of natural nutrients that we can
4:11
Speaker 1: enter into the debate. But we can get to that later.
4:13
Speaker 2: Let's go high level. So why is there Why would
4:16
Speaker 2: there be a Brian body connection, right, particularly if Day
4:20
Speaker 2: kind of saying they are kind of separate entities, Why
4:23
Speaker 2: would it be what?
4:24
Speaker 1: Well? And the answer to that is inflammation. The sole
4:31
Speaker 1: process now is all around what is this role of inflammation?
4:37
Speaker 1: And the first signs of that would come with in
4:41
Speaker 1: the original case, a lot of anecdotal you know, it's
4:44
Speaker 1: very interesting this person would have this injury and they
4:48
Speaker 1: would be they would have this inflammation of the physical injury,
4:51
Speaker 1: but it would be also related to mood and then
4:56
Speaker 1: a depressive illness. And they were the first inklings that
5:01
Speaker 1: maybe this war, you know, between the fluids of the
5:06
Speaker 1: brain and the fluids of the body, because that's that's
5:09
Speaker 1: basically that being the Great War hasn't yes, you know,
5:13
Speaker 1: the Great Wall of China in there disrespect to the Chinese,
5:18
Speaker 1: see how great Wall I know of. It has always
5:21
Speaker 1: maintained that there is no exchange in there, but we
5:25
Speaker 1: now have come to understand that's not true that and
5:29
Speaker 1: that's been shown up by this relationship of the inflammation
5:35
Speaker 1: that you know, when the micro gleia which are you know,
5:39
Speaker 1: sort of the things that come in and attack this
5:41
Speaker 1: sort of damaged cytokinds, which are you know, busily sort
5:47
Speaker 1: of having this huge war trying to bring the inflammation
5:50
Speaker 1: under control. What we find there is this relationship to
5:55
Speaker 1: the brain and two areas of the brain that are
5:58
Speaker 1: involved with emotion, which is the fascinating part here, which
6:03
Speaker 1: is highly technical and maybe not particularly suitable in this
6:07
Speaker 1: sort of environment that we're talking talking in, but you know,
6:10
Speaker 1: the singular part of the brain, the emotional part of
6:14
Speaker 1: the brain, the amygdala that's beavering away in there. These
6:19
Speaker 1: things are interestingly enough, so closely related to the cytokinds,
6:26
Speaker 1: you know, the whole world of that's going on in
6:29
Speaker 1: here and busily trying to control dammage in the system.
6:34
Speaker 1: And that's where all of the research is currently taken.
6:38
Speaker 1: We're trying to find ways to actually understand this better.
6:43
Speaker 1: And if I can go back a little bit my
6:46
Speaker 1: original world as a clinical nero, and I also worked
6:52
Speaker 1: as a psychologist with executives or maybe thirty five years,
6:59
Speaker 1: that's long enough have a view, but it was very
7:05
Speaker 1: interesting in those days and where they would present quite
7:11
Speaker 1: depressed or quite anxious, and you would test them as
7:15
Speaker 1: you would normally do. The doctors would see them as
7:18
Speaker 1: part of their physical evaluations for the insurance companies or whoever,
7:23
Speaker 1: just for a corporate health programs. You'd always get the
7:26
Speaker 1: senior executives through from this particular practice in Berke Street.
7:30
Speaker 1: You're in Melbourne, and you would be presented with people
7:33
Speaker 1: who very interestingly would have a number of factors going on,
7:38
Speaker 1: but often there was also you've got this sense that
7:42
Speaker 1: there had been injury as well, you know, and whether
7:45
Speaker 1: that was physical or mental or some combination of the two.
7:49
Speaker 1: And that was the environment in which I first started
7:52
Speaker 1: thinking about this, and I first started introducing neurological techniques
7:56
Speaker 1: into the practice. I started to say, well, we were
7:59
Speaker 1: in a position to take blood, so we could do
8:01
Speaker 1: some biological things as well as well as saliva, urine
8:06
Speaker 1: and all the rest of it. What it was more
8:08
Speaker 1: interesting was what was happening on the electrical level in
8:12
Speaker 1: the brain. Could we get some interesting evidence there on
8:15
Speaker 1: we started and we hooked up or I hooked up
8:19
Speaker 1: people and watched what was going on in their brain
8:22
Speaker 1: as we were talking about things. But more importantly, as
8:26
Speaker 1: a way of how can we settle the mental inflammation?
8:31
Speaker 1: I'm using that in a sort of a descriptive way,
8:35
Speaker 1: and not just a physical way, which we'll get to,
8:37
Speaker 1: but in that descriptive mental sort of a way. Couldn't
8:41
Speaker 1: we see things that brought someone from being anxious or
8:47
Speaker 1: brought someone from being depressed, and that that's really a
8:52
Speaker 1: continuum anyway into a more regulated environment. Could we do that?
8:57
Speaker 1: And of course that was the I'm sure youed it
9:00
Speaker 1: many times in your own world with meditation, yoga, breathe
9:07
Speaker 1: or how could we impact those things and that was
9:11
Speaker 1: the world in which I first with my patients. I
9:16
Speaker 1: first started to think, well, if I actually can create
9:21
Speaker 1: a bit of a smoke environment like with bees, you know,
9:24
Speaker 1: settle them down, maybe we could have an effect on
9:28
Speaker 1: the brain. And just by watching their EEG, which is
9:35
Speaker 1: of course around the heart and rate and electro and
9:41
Speaker 1: cephilogram and an electro cardiogram and the EG, we watched
9:47
Speaker 1: the brain of these executives and it was fascinating the
9:52
Speaker 1: first time. And this was one of the revelations which
9:54
Speaker 1: led to something that you and I cross paths last
9:57
Speaker 1: year at another seminar. One of the revel of that
10:01
Speaker 1: was that if I can distract the brain long enough
10:06
Speaker 1: so that it gets some sense of control and gets
10:10
Speaker 1: some sense of activity, not allowing me to think about
10:15
Speaker 1: anything else, then a remarkable thing happened in the brain
10:19
Speaker 1: into the electrical system, which was also firing up or
10:24
Speaker 1: regulating the whole of the hormonal and other aspects of
10:30
Speaker 1: the brain. And that was that simple task of coloring
10:33
Speaker 1: in and that was where it started.
10:36
Speaker 2: Let me take a step up a little bit just
10:38
Speaker 2: for the benefit of our listeners, right, because you talked
10:42
Speaker 2: about that essentially the blood brain barrier right, So some
10:46
Speaker 2: of our listeners will not be familiar with this. So
10:49
Speaker 2: there is this barrier between the brain and the rest
10:53
Speaker 2: of the blood work. There is very little stuff that
10:58
Speaker 2: actually gets into the brain. And the kind of checkpoints
11:02
Speaker 2: think of them like a security airport security checkpoint, right,
11:08
Speaker 2: and physical yes, physical yeah. And interestingly, because you were
11:14
Speaker 2: talking about depression there, and it's really interesting, isn't it
11:17
Speaker 2: when you look at physical symptoms. So if I've got
11:20
Speaker 2: cardiovascular disease, or if i have diabetes or any of
11:26
Speaker 2: those other diseases that we think of, there is a
11:30
Speaker 2: very clear biological signature of those things. We can do
11:37
Speaker 2: blood tests, we can actually do a clear diagnosis, but
11:41
Speaker 2: when it comes to mood disorders, there is no actional
11:46
Speaker 2: and independent test of these things. And that's why you know,
11:52
Speaker 2: the psychiatrists have created the DSM and questionners that are
11:58
Speaker 2: reasonably objective, right.
12:01
Speaker 1: But what you're.
12:01
Speaker 2: Getting at is what is actually happening in the brain
12:07
Speaker 2: and two neurons that affects communication between neurons within the
12:11
Speaker 2: brain that can then impact on people's moods. And there's
12:15
Speaker 2: this big exploration that's going on right now. But I
12:19
Speaker 2: think what you're talking about here is this this inflammation
12:23
Speaker 2: which we now know can even come from the gut
12:28
Speaker 2: and dis biocess gut and these signals actually get through
12:32
Speaker 2: across the blood brain barrier trigger off inflammation. So talk
12:37
Speaker 2: to our listeners a little bit about that kind of process,
12:43
Speaker 2: and are we any closer to having biological traces or
12:52
Speaker 2: signatures of depression and different types of depression or anxiety
12:56
Speaker 2: or those sorts of things.
12:58
Speaker 1: Well, I'd like to say we ad close that the
13:00
Speaker 1: answer would be known. I mean, the best bio markers.
13:04
Speaker 1: We have a serotonin and the SSRIs, the inhibitors that
13:10
Speaker 1: most of the drugs focus on, are not focused enough
13:14
Speaker 1: that we can go just as we do with bacteria,
13:18
Speaker 1: we can go, well, here is an agent which will
13:21
Speaker 1: attack that bacteria, and we have a pure We don't
13:25
Speaker 1: have an agent that will in fact move the serotonin
13:31
Speaker 1: because it got put into the system. The SSRIs, the
13:35
Speaker 1: inhibitors that they they're too broad, and so the psychiatrists
13:41
Speaker 1: who dish out the medicines, of course go through a
13:45
Speaker 1: process of trial and error because they're trying to work
13:48
Speaker 1: out which of the which of these drugs might have
13:53
Speaker 1: the impact that is required. There is an assumption, of course,
13:57
Speaker 1: quite rightly that the brain body barrier is one that
14:01
Speaker 1: can in fact be overcome because of this, but we
14:06
Speaker 1: have not found it.
14:09
Speaker 2: And actually I interviewed on my podcast professor Mark Horowitz,
14:14
Speaker 2: who was one of the authors on the paper that
14:17
Speaker 2: came out last year or the year before firmly debunking
14:21
Speaker 2: the serotonin theory of depression. Their theory is that it's
14:24
Speaker 2: about chronic stress and inflammation in the brain.
14:28
Speaker 1: Right, It's correct, And that's what I when I was
14:34
Speaker 1: talking about these things we can do. You know, we're going, well,
14:38
Speaker 1: if maybe it's a it's a different type of biomarker, maybe,
14:42
Speaker 1: And then in my world, I'm looking at these electrical
14:47
Speaker 1: if you like biomarkers, things like heart rate variation.
14:52
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I really want to talk about, hard
14:55
Speaker 2: rate variability. So my listeners will be a little bit
14:58
Speaker 2: familiar with that. I did a podcas us a few
15:00
Speaker 2: weeks ago. But let's talk about that heart brain connection.
15:07
Speaker 2: So what do we now know, what's the current state
15:11
Speaker 2: of play in our understanding of the connections between the
15:17
Speaker 2: heart and the brain, And then we can get into
15:19
Speaker 2: heart rate variability and manipulation and the vegas ur and
15:22
Speaker 2: all of that. Sort of stuff. But just give us
15:24
Speaker 2: a kind of a high level overview from where you're
15:28
Speaker 2: sitting off. What's the current knowledge in this space.
15:31
Speaker 1: With the heart connection to the heart muscle, Yeah, and
15:35
Speaker 1: obviously heart rate and all of the aspects of the
15:40
Speaker 1: automomic nervous system, the para sympathetic nervous system. As you said,
15:45
Speaker 1: you talked about these things before. There is a surprisingly
15:50
Speaker 1: high level of knowledge in this area and groaning even
15:55
Speaker 1: in my own area. If we look at the science
15:57
Speaker 1: of that, we're looking at technology which allow us to
16:02
Speaker 1: gather that really quickly, you know, with finger rings is
16:09
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. But that whole process of the
16:13
Speaker 1: heart and the muscle around it, and its connection to
16:18
Speaker 1: in fact preoccupying our whole physiology is huge. I don't
16:23
Speaker 1: think is there any debate about it.
16:25
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any really. And is that connection
16:33
Speaker 2: all mediated through the vegus nerve or is there other
16:39
Speaker 2: forces at play?
16:41
Speaker 1: Look, the vegas nerve has become, in my opinion, a
16:46
Speaker 1: predominant player in the discussion now. It's certainly one hell
16:51
Speaker 1: of a conduit, isn't it in terms of the biggest
16:55
Speaker 1: nerve in the brain and the body. And I think
16:58
Speaker 1: it's I don't know what the the answer is in
17:01
Speaker 1: terms of the other players that may yet pop up,
17:05
Speaker 1: but it was certainly a very significant one. Particularly and
17:08
Speaker 1: your listeners, if they're familiar with your talks, will know
17:12
Speaker 1: that I'm now talking about the para sympathetic nervous system.
17:15
Speaker 1: I'm now talking about the system that slows us down,
17:20
Speaker 1: that gets us ready to digest and hence the gut connection.
17:26
Speaker 1: We have a physical reaction, of course, which is that
17:30
Speaker 1: there's now a whole host of products looking at all
17:33
Speaker 1: sorts of problems that people have with their gut and
17:37
Speaker 1: being able to regulate the vagual nerve as part of
17:41
Speaker 1: that process, which is the stimulating of the parasympathetic system
17:46
Speaker 1: so that the system becomes more regulated, which is linked
17:50
Speaker 1: of course to stress.
17:52
Speaker 2: It's the jump in for the benefit of the lesters
17:54
Speaker 2: who may have not caught the podcast on high veriability
17:58
Speaker 2: or who just need to get up to.
18:00
Speaker 1: Me a little bit.
18:01
Speaker 2: So autonomic nervous system has got two parts to it.
18:05
Speaker 2: We've been talking about the parasympathetic the just to recover
18:09
Speaker 2: the opposing one if you like, although it's not really
18:11
Speaker 2: opposing as well, but there is the sympathetic nervous system,
18:15
Speaker 2: which is to do the whole fight or flight response
18:17
Speaker 2: and just getting you ready to deal with challenges and
18:21
Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff. And the critical thing is for
18:25
Speaker 2: those two sides of the seesaw, if you like to
18:29
Speaker 2: be in balance and a lot of issues. Now, are
18:32
Speaker 2: people being in sympathetic dominance just too stimulated from a
18:38
Speaker 2: combination of work stress, home stress and then thinking they're
18:43
Speaker 2: relaxing but being on social media and being stimulated being TV,
18:47
Speaker 2: being stimulated not actually recovering. So I make the distinction
18:53
Speaker 2: with people between recovery and relaxation. So relaxation recovery. The
18:58
Speaker 2: difference is relax can sitting with your feet up with
19:01
Speaker 2: a bottle of wine watching Netflix. But that's not recovery,
19:04
Speaker 2: is it. That's not what Definitely no, recovery is the
19:08
Speaker 2: biggest nerves. So with that kind of background, and.
19:11
Speaker 1: You can't be overstimulated by them. The powers of effect well, well,
19:16
Speaker 1: the simple you can't be over stacase because it's reacting
19:21
Speaker 1: to it, you know, whatever is going on, but it
19:23
Speaker 1: can go on for too long.
19:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the thing for people to understand
19:27
Speaker 2: as well is that the stressor that activates it can
19:33
Speaker 2: be physical or psychological, and can be real or imaginary.
19:38
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, Hence the brain's visual callty. It's visualization can
19:43
Speaker 1: be as strong as the real world. And why in
19:46
Speaker 1: competitive sports visualization such a powerful technique, and right down
19:50
Speaker 1: into clinical work where clinical visualization can help with mental disorder.
19:57
Speaker 1: They're all very powerful. You know. The brain, as you
20:00
Speaker 1: and I know, puts together a picture of the world.
20:02
Speaker 1: It's a very hard concept, sort of really really understand.
20:08
Speaker 1: You see it and you think that's it, that's it's there,
20:10
Speaker 1: but what it sees is quite an interesting again interesting analysis.
20:16
Speaker 1: But for the sake of the exercise here, you're quite right.
20:20
Speaker 1: It will simulate, it will also relax. It is forever
20:25
Speaker 1: in this and you know, like you talked about earlier, Paul,
20:29
Speaker 1: it's a war. It's like sleep and you know us
20:33
Speaker 1: sleep and awake. It's a war. And that war is
20:37
Speaker 1: determined by light and done. Yes, yeah, that is totally
20:43
Speaker 1: determined by light and dark. It is so ancient in us.
20:47
Speaker 1: And the war goes on. It's like that one of
20:49
Speaker 1: those cartoons where you know, the combatants meet every day
20:52
Speaker 1: and fight it out and then go back somewhere else.
20:55
Speaker 1: The brain operates in exactly the same way. And it
20:57
Speaker 1: operates in this in this world, and the central nervous
21:01
Speaker 1: system in its autonomic nervous system in this perasympathetic and
21:06
Speaker 1: sympathetic world where it is seeking to regulate it, just
21:10
Speaker 1: as it does with our temperature, How on earth does
21:13
Speaker 1: it keep ourselves in that temperature. It's the self regulation process.
21:17
Speaker 2: This homeostasis that you're referring to. There are so many
21:22
Speaker 2: homostatic mechanisms and really from that perspective in our discussion,
21:27
Speaker 2: we could potentially think of mood disorders as disregulated homeostasis.
21:33
Speaker 1: In the indeed, particularly if we accept the brain body connit.
21:39
Speaker 2: So let's not talk about what we can do about
21:44
Speaker 2: it and what people can do about it. And I
21:46
Speaker 2: think for the first part of this is understanding the
21:52
Speaker 2: very strong projections or connections with the vegus nerve into
21:57
Speaker 2: both the heart and the lungs. That gives us a
22:01
Speaker 2: little bit of a clue as to what we could
22:06
Speaker 2: potentially do and that bottom up stimulation of the vegus nerve.
22:11
Speaker 2: Because I saw you last year and using a bio
22:14
Speaker 2: feedback device and topic feedback, so tell our listeners what
22:19
Speaker 2: is the state of play around that buyo feedback. How
22:22
Speaker 2: does it work, the breathing all of those sorts of
22:25
Speaker 2: things and that activation of the vehgus Nerve.
22:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, Look, I think taking a higher level to it,
22:31
Speaker 1: and something I always like to explain is the brain
22:34
Speaker 1: operates in totality in a very interesting way. When we
22:39
Speaker 1: open our eyes and we get going, it's from the
22:43
Speaker 1: bottom of the brain to the top. It's from the
22:47
Speaker 1: back of the brain to the front, and it's from
22:50
Speaker 1: the right side of the brain to the lift. That's
22:53
Speaker 1: its firing up directions. And if you think about everything
22:58
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, and you think about the bottom
23:01
Speaker 1: of the brain, now that's the brain stem area. That's
23:05
Speaker 1: our ancient brain, that's our old brain that's still there within,
23:11
Speaker 1: and it's all linked to our emotions. It's linked to
23:16
Speaker 1: areas like the amygdala. You know, when sensory information comes in.
23:22
Speaker 1: There are two pathways, as you know, one of those
23:24
Speaker 1: is the emotional pathway and the other is the cognitive.
23:28
Speaker 1: The emotional one goes first, and it started at the
23:31
Speaker 1: bottom of the brain. As soon as something started to
23:34
Speaker 1: become sensed, even imagined or real in it goes and
23:40
Speaker 1: then it quickly shuffles at ways through what must have
23:43
Speaker 1: been our ancient defense mechanism to avoid being killed or
23:49
Speaker 1: kill something before we did. It's still there, you know.
23:53
Speaker 1: It's just that this other system adds the logic of well,
23:57
Speaker 1: we don't just walk around killing people when it suits us,
24:01
Speaker 1: or decide to take things when we want it, or
24:05
Speaker 1: wonder maybe sometimes with our current world whether that's actually
24:09
Speaker 1: working anymore, But for the majority of us it is.
24:13
Speaker 1: And this bottom to top, this is going through these
24:16
Speaker 1: emotional controllers and this interaction that's going on between the
24:22
Speaker 1: body and the brain. You know, it's actually all about
24:27
Speaker 1: this relaxation cit you know, should I Should I be tent?
24:31
Speaker 1: Should I be relaxed about this? What's the memory of this?
24:36
Speaker 1: Where can I find the memory of this? I'll go
24:38
Speaker 1: to the hippocampus and I'll grab short term, you know,
24:41
Speaker 1: I'll go to the frontal lobe and ask for some
24:44
Speaker 1: more directions and go back into there and decide. Note,
24:47
Speaker 1: we're all clear, let's move on. This is all going on,
24:50
Speaker 1: you know, in a second type of stuff. But my
24:53
Speaker 1: point there being that these techniques that we often focus
24:58
Speaker 1: on in here and certain I did when I wrote
25:02
Speaker 1: my first book on the neuroscience of mindfulness. I very
25:05
Speaker 1: much focused on all of the sensory inputs as a
25:09
Speaker 1: way of improving things, you know, a way of actually
25:13
Speaker 1: ranging from you know that what I mentioned before, the
25:16
Speaker 1: coloring in sort of process to sounds, you know, using
25:20
Speaker 1: all sorts of sounds to get the sort of brain waves.
25:24
Speaker 1: Because the other thing that when the brain is communicating
25:27
Speaker 1: from back to front, from right to left, from bottom
25:30
Speaker 1: to top, it's doing so on brain waves. You know,
25:34
Speaker 1: if the neurons are sure, what speed are they going at?
25:38
Speaker 2: I think it's important here to double click on this
25:41
Speaker 2: just for our listeners who may not be familiar with BRIANWD.
25:45
Speaker 2: So talk us through just briefly alpha, beta, theta, delta,
25:51
Speaker 2: and maybe even gamma if you want, but the ones
25:54
Speaker 2: that are relevant for us.
25:56
Speaker 1: Yes, so you and I are talking right now. We're
25:59
Speaker 1: basically and beta. That's so, that's about you know, twelve
26:06
Speaker 1: the wave is operating at twelve hertz, and when we're
26:11
Speaker 1: at gamma it's at forty plus hurts. And when we're
26:16
Speaker 1: going to sleep, we sort of move through alpha and
26:20
Speaker 1: lots of people have heard of the alpha waves that's
26:23
Speaker 1: about eight to twelve hurts. And then theta, of course
26:27
Speaker 1: is deeper and delta is quite hypnotic, So they're to
26:32
Speaker 1: me the brain's highways, if you think of gamma, would
26:37
Speaker 1: be the autobar get on that baby and USh. If
26:41
Speaker 1: the brain wanted to move something quickly, it would look
26:46
Speaker 1: for it will look for that brain wave level and
26:51
Speaker 1: it will have the sort of adrenaline field hormone zach
26:57
Speaker 1: the touched to remember, each neuron carries a carry all
27:00
Speaker 1: of these messengers along. It's going to carry the stuff
27:03
Speaker 1: that we need to really quickly.
27:06
Speaker 2: Because I remember reading that when you have an aha moment, yes,
27:11
Speaker 2: that is gumma activity. And it's basically the Brian making
27:16
Speaker 2: lots of very fast connections.
27:19
Speaker 1: Correct, you just go a breat and it's making them.
27:23
Speaker 1: And if you stop for a second and say, oh,
27:26
Speaker 1: did we just go through a forty kilometer zone and
27:32
Speaker 1: we're doing two hundred and ten, it may stop for
27:35
Speaker 1: a moment, it may sort of pick that up as
27:38
Speaker 1: part of what it's going. But it's it's just heating
27:41
Speaker 1: around normally in the frontal lobe area, in the sort
27:46
Speaker 1: of the controller area right across the spaghetti bolonnaise on top.
27:50
Speaker 1: It's sort of rushing around at the highest level in
27:54
Speaker 1: the brain, and that's why it's easiest for us to
27:56
Speaker 1: pick that up on the eg's particular, and even some
28:02
Speaker 1: of the well even some of the newer technologies in
28:06
Speaker 1: the you know, with the ejects, you know, the ncephulogramt.
28:10
Speaker 1: But the point is that that's why we pick up
28:13
Speaker 1: most of it on the top of the brain, and
28:14
Speaker 1: most of the stuff that's deeper in is harder for
28:18
Speaker 1: the technolo well though the technologies are getting better. But
28:22
Speaker 1: my point is that in this sort of body mind
28:27
Speaker 1: connection process, we've got this electrical world going on as well.
28:32
Speaker 1: That it's also this mechanism by which it's why would
28:37
Speaker 1: we have it, because something's got to send the messages around.
28:44
Speaker 1: But how in and as we now know thirty years
28:47
Speaker 1: forty years since I first sort of looked at that
28:50
Speaker 1: really closely, we now know that, you know, things aren't
28:54
Speaker 1: just located in one part of the brain. They're now
28:57
Speaker 1: located in multiple areas of the brain. We now know
29:00
Speaker 1: the concept of cohesion, which comes up in a lot
29:05
Speaker 1: in part rate variation. You know, in this world of
29:10
Speaker 1: homeostasis or regulatory endeavor in the brain. It's actually working
29:16
Speaker 1: like a team. There's players every week, it's got more
29:21
Speaker 1: confusing as we've gone on pull. I mean, the older
29:26
Speaker 1: I get, the more confusing.
29:27
Speaker 2: It's giddy, but at a fundamental level standard I think
29:34
Speaker 2: if we talk about every day issues and particularly mental
29:38
Speaker 2: health and stress, yes, is that you know we're probably
29:42
Speaker 2: in luish beta right now, which is arisal, we're interested,
29:48
Speaker 2: we're having a conversation. When we get more stressed, we
29:51
Speaker 2: get in higher beta, and then you know, very I beta.
29:55
Speaker 4: That's spring, which is dropping cortisol like crazy into the system,
30:01
Speaker 4: which is bringing in the biomarkers, you know, all of
30:05
Speaker 4: the proteins that.
30:07
Speaker 1: Are now infecting the blood vessels, you know, literally turning.
30:12
Speaker 1: You know, here's the here's the crups of the mind body.
30:15
Speaker 1: This was the big discovery, wasn't it. Those proteins that
30:19
Speaker 1: built up just because we thought we were under pressure.
30:23
Speaker 1: How did a protein develop? How did that get into
30:27
Speaker 1: the brain's cellular structures, in its pathways in there? How
30:33
Speaker 1: could that have developed just because we felt stressed.
30:38
Speaker 2: When you said protein, you're talking tile proteins and correct.
30:42
Speaker 1: So I think for.
30:43
Speaker 2: People to understand that with that chronic stress in the brim,
30:47
Speaker 2: we see an accumulation of these tile proteins and then
30:53
Speaker 2: we see this amyloid beta and this was the whole
30:55
Speaker 2: thing about Alzheimer's disease, right, is they find a lot
30:59
Speaker 2: of these tangled plaques and they thought, well, we just
31:03
Speaker 2: need to develop drugs to get rid of that stuff,
31:07
Speaker 2: and then we'll be able to reverse neurodegenerate diseases. And
31:10
Speaker 2: it's been spectacularly on successful, yes, because they haven't focused
31:15
Speaker 2: on the process. They focused on the outcome, right.
31:18
Speaker 1: Correct, It is absolutely, absolutely correct, and so but to
31:25
Speaker 1: just home in on the critical point was those discoveries
31:30
Speaker 1: that was when the brain body connection was finally shown.
31:36
Speaker 1: There had to be this world in which certainly micro
31:43
Speaker 1: biodynamics were going on in here to create this physical
31:48
Speaker 1: response in the brain. And one of the leads that
31:51
Speaker 1: we have is particularly around at the moment, you know,
31:56
Speaker 1: the one of the big ones is inflammation and mood.
32:01
Speaker 1: And you're literally at the heart of all of this.
32:05
Speaker 1: You know, we're literally at the Okay, I can understand
32:09
Speaker 1: I need to you know, I'm in a flat and
32:11
Speaker 1: depress mood that you know, that may be because I
32:16
Speaker 1: have issues or social issues or physical issues or certain
32:20
Speaker 1: things going on with me, but it may also be
32:24
Speaker 1: other things. It may in fact be in the biology
32:27
Speaker 1: of my system. So it is a fascinating area. And
32:31
Speaker 1: also understanding the electrical component of it, understanding that we
32:36
Speaker 1: need to change. I like the metaphor of highways, you know,
32:40
Speaker 1: sort of it's dropping off the highway into thirty or
32:45
Speaker 1: sixty kilometers, you know, sixty kilometer zone from an autobar.
32:49
Speaker 1: You know, how do I change in there? Well, Meditation
32:53
Speaker 1: breathing HRV is all about breathing. It's all about being
32:58
Speaker 1: able to control the sympathetic and parasympathetic. When you breathe in,
33:03
Speaker 1: you've got your sympathetic system going. That's the connection to
33:07
Speaker 1: the heart muscle and the oxygen supply and all the
33:10
Speaker 1: rest of that's going on there. And when you breathe out,
33:13
Speaker 1: you're activating the parasympathetic system if you breathe out. You know.
33:18
Speaker 1: One of the things that was amazing to me, and
33:21
Speaker 1: just before, you know, very early in my career, I
33:24
Speaker 1: met Ainsley Mears and he is a big home psychiatrist,
33:29
Speaker 1: wonderful man, way back in the eighties, and he was
33:33
Speaker 1: all about meditation and about being able to relax. But
33:38
Speaker 1: in those days it was more Tibetan, you know, it
33:41
Speaker 1: was another world's medicine, but now being able to see
33:46
Speaker 1: that you can actually the greater variation. And again, if
33:49
Speaker 1: I can actually create greater variation, that is not have
33:53
Speaker 1: an absolutely synchronized beat, I can actually create that variation,
33:58
Speaker 1: I will relax parasympathetic mind system will in fact engage
34:05
Speaker 1: more of the relaxing ormones. Then that is an absolute
34:11
Speaker 1: and I can use all sorts of systems to do it.
34:13
Speaker 1: I can use breathing, I can use sound. We've developed
34:18
Speaker 1: up sound technologies that can do these things. We're looking now.
34:22
Speaker 1: I'm working with a project those in New Zealand and
34:26
Speaker 1: their chief neuroscientists stated there at the moment, and we're
34:29
Speaker 1: looking at nutrients you know too, that the flavor aids
34:35
Speaker 1: that can actually break this barrier so that we can
34:39
Speaker 1: actually activate the brain to be less depressed. And one
34:44
Speaker 1: of the outcomes of that research, which will be interesting
34:47
Speaker 1: for you and the listeners, is that we're also getting
34:50
Speaker 1: interesting results with concussion, interesting very interesting results with concussion
34:57
Speaker 1: and so implication ricked.
35:02
Speaker 2: Especially if you get another hit while your brain is
35:07
Speaker 2: still inflamed, that's when most of the damage. Hence, now
35:11
Speaker 2: with concussion protocols, it's you need to take.
35:14
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks off and you do. Yes, you
35:17
Speaker 1: absolutely have to risk to maximize recovery, which is that's
35:23
Speaker 1: another session, absolutely, But I wanted to click and get
35:27
Speaker 1: really practical for people.
35:28
Speaker 2: So I think we both agree that some of the
35:31
Speaker 2: most impactful and astounding research for individuals is the understanding
35:37
Speaker 2: that we can manipulate the activity of the vega snarf.
35:40
Speaker 2: We can, And so let's talk about what's all about
35:44
Speaker 2: the breath, meditation, and sign They're the three things that
35:48
Speaker 2: I'm really keen because I think there are things that
35:50
Speaker 2: that people can just jump and go with. I was
35:54
Speaker 2: very happy to hear you talk about the breath out right,
35:57
Speaker 2: because there is quite a lot of research out that
36:00
Speaker 2: any type of slow controlled breathing is going to help
36:04
Speaker 2: with the stress response and going to help with the
36:06
Speaker 2: activation of the vegus nerve. But I have always thought,
36:11
Speaker 2: why would you? And even if we take resonant frequency breathing,
36:15
Speaker 2: which you and I both though you need a specific
36:18
Speaker 2: measuring device to be able to know exactly what yours is.
36:21
Speaker 2: But for most people, about six breaths a minute, it's
36:24
Speaker 2: going to be quite effective, right sure, And I've read
36:27
Speaker 2: research that five seconds in and five seconds out can
36:31
Speaker 2: actually clear amyloid be But I'm thinking, why would you
36:35
Speaker 2: do that? Why would you not breathe in for four
36:37
Speaker 2: and out for six or three and out for seven, Because,
36:39
Speaker 2: as you rightly said, it's not breathing. The sympathetic nervous
36:43
Speaker 2: system slightly or regulates, So it's on the breath out
36:46
Speaker 2: that we get the big operation of the parasit Am
36:50
Speaker 2: I missing something that they're No, you're not.
36:52
Speaker 1: And look, I've given up trying to rationalize all of
36:57
Speaker 1: the breathing techniques that come up cross my desk or
37:01
Speaker 1: my patients in the past, or my research. At the moment,
37:04
Speaker 1: the reality of it is, there is no I don't
37:08
Speaker 1: get the connection to the research or the information or
37:12
Speaker 1: the data that tells me those things are any more
37:16
Speaker 1: than a place ebo. But I do know through the
37:20
Speaker 1: recept from my own recept. I mean, when I was
37:25
Speaker 1: at that seminar last year and I put someone up
37:27
Speaker 1: there on the stage and I hooked them up, and
37:29
Speaker 1: you can see immediately the impact of breathing out. You
37:36
Speaker 1: can immediately see the reaction of the autonomic nervous system.
37:44
Speaker 1: It's power and sympathetic system seeking to regulate. And once
37:48
Speaker 1: you get your hit around the fact that the breath
37:51
Speaker 1: out represents the parasympathetic system. You're creating a variation. There's
37:57
Speaker 1: no point being in there with equal amounts because all
38:00
Speaker 1: you're doing it's keeping the system in what it's caught in.
38:05
Speaker 1: That is the simplest technique to do that.
38:09
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you reinforced that because I was just
38:12
Speaker 2: I've been scratching my head about why anybody would talk
38:15
Speaker 2: about anything other than a longer breath out than breath in. Now,
38:20
Speaker 2: in terms of bio feedback devices, yes, I've got a
38:24
Speaker 2: heart mass was it hot massage?
38:25
Speaker 1: Yes?
38:26
Speaker 2: And so is that the one that you would recommend
38:30
Speaker 2: for people in terms of that bio feedback? The Vice
38:32
Speaker 2: because it's really quite powerful.
38:33
Speaker 1: Isn't it. It's an extremely good program. I've worked with
38:36
Speaker 1: it since the late nineties. Wow. So, And in fact,
38:40
Speaker 1: the one I demonstrated is one of the original ones
38:43
Speaker 1: that I worked on with them. And so because it's
38:48
Speaker 1: it actually demonstrates everything I'm talking about. You can't see
38:51
Speaker 1: what I showed there in now because they've wrapped it
38:55
Speaker 1: up in all of their IP and all the rest
38:58
Speaker 1: of it.
38:58
Speaker 2: You just get the practitioner bets underneath the hood, right, Yeah.
39:03
Speaker 1: I get it all so because that's the you know,
39:06
Speaker 1: that was I had that I held onto that for
39:08
Speaker 1: all these years, and that just allows me to actually
39:12
Speaker 1: break the system up, to actually see that sympathetic and
39:15
Speaker 1: the parasympathetic system in action. And also it's regulatory effort
39:21
Speaker 1: because on the one hand, you can be high, but
39:25
Speaker 1: what's behind that is how hard you're working. You know,
39:29
Speaker 1: you may in fact just be situational high, or you
39:33
Speaker 1: may be you know high because your system just maintains
39:38
Speaker 1: you there. Yeah. Yeah, and that's a very different reaction.
39:41
Speaker 5: So when I just to clarify, when you're saying, hi,
39:44
Speaker 5: do you mean in terms of heart met variability or
39:47
Speaker 5: something else?
39:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean in terms of the activation of the
39:51
Speaker 1: sympathetic system.
39:52
Speaker 5: Sympathetic, right, So you can either be because you are
39:55
Speaker 5: stressed in and of the moment.
39:57
Speaker 2: That's just your kind of rest.
40:00
Speaker 1: Get because otherwise the data isn't well how do I know?
40:05
Speaker 1: You know? So that was a very important other element
40:08
Speaker 1: that we had built into the software in the nineties.
40:11
Speaker 1: And in fact, you know, the software was built for practitioners.
40:15
Speaker 2: In those days, that's right now, you know.
40:17
Speaker 1: It was built for practitioners to use with their clients
40:21
Speaker 1: and their patients. So and then they moved to a
40:23
Speaker 1: model or something that everyone could understand or get that.
40:28
Speaker 1: But having said that, it's still very good. It's good feedback.
40:31
Speaker 1: It's good feedback, particularly in this sort of the CG
40:39
Speaker 1: world of the autonomic nervous system. I think it's just
40:42
Speaker 1: brilliant and a great way to see yourself improving. We've
40:47
Speaker 1: even developed up now. I mean your listeners can't see,
40:50
Speaker 1: but I'm holding up my phone. I've even developed up
40:53
Speaker 1: my own system now where you can put your finger
40:56
Speaker 1: over the camera and chair. Yeah, I've built my own
41:04
Speaker 1: I've got cross over in Princeton and I've been working
41:09
Speaker 1: on that. It's mainly he's just been checking my algorithms
41:13
Speaker 1: and all the rest of it. But I'm in a
41:14
Speaker 1: position now where not only will I be able to
41:18
Speaker 1: pick up your HRV, but I'll also be able to
41:22
Speaker 1: immediately recommend give either, you know, sort of particularly, I
41:28
Speaker 1: mean I like sound intrusions into changing the brain waves,
41:33
Speaker 1: so we can immediately do that. That's where the science
41:36
Speaker 1: is going with this, and I'm into that actually when
41:39
Speaker 1: I was talking and I'm now there.
41:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's where my questions are going is on
41:45
Speaker 2: the sign. But just to kind of summarize this for
41:48
Speaker 2: people long slow breathing, but the breath are particularly being
41:55
Speaker 2: longer than the breath and is a really effective way
42:00
Speaker 2: be at the power sympathetic nervous system and a relaxation response.
42:03
Speaker 2: And I talk to all my executives that ideally every
42:06
Speaker 2: half an hour, but worst case scenario, every r get
42:09
Speaker 2: off your arson, move, get blood flow and oxygen back
42:12
Speaker 2: to your brain. I drink some water and sit down
42:16
Speaker 2: and do a couple of minutes of that heart rate
42:20
Speaker 2: HRV breathing with a long breath out and it's like
42:24
Speaker 2: taking your brain out and plugging it into the wall
42:26
Speaker 2: to get a recharge. Absolutely time stress hormones, right, No.
42:31
Speaker 1: I totally agree. I'd recommend twice a day at least.
42:35
Speaker 1: You know where you get a note and you just
42:37
Speaker 1: literally take yourself offline for a couple of minutes and
42:40
Speaker 1: go through just three breaths. I mean you don't have
42:44
Speaker 1: to do it for half now, you just have to
42:45
Speaker 1: break the cycle you're in. Yeah.
42:47
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Now, just before just a quick answering this one,
42:51
Speaker 2: because I do want to talk about signed and we're
42:53
Speaker 2: running out of time a bit. Do you think that
42:56
Speaker 2: there are benefits of mindfulness meditation over and above brass control,
43:04
Speaker 2: and if so, what would they be.
43:09
Speaker 1: Look my answer to that would be yes, and the
43:14
Speaker 1: reason for that would be that I think that mindfulness,
43:21
Speaker 1: with its propensity to think in terms of the here
43:25
Speaker 1: and now and the exclusion of everything else around you
43:31
Speaker 1: and the non judgmental processes, shifts you into the you know,
43:37
Speaker 1: into many different scenarios in which you can apply it.
43:41
Speaker 1: I think the breathing tends, you know, I've tended to
43:45
Speaker 1: like it the mindfulness sort of story because it's sort
43:49
Speaker 1: of a little it seems a little broader than just breathing,
43:52
Speaker 1: and people tend to think that breathing is just a
43:55
Speaker 1: sitting down thing and therefore part of some meditative process.
44:00
Speaker 1: Whereas mindfulness, as you know, if we're coloring or knitting,
44:06
Speaker 1: or washing the car or gardening, if we can just
44:10
Speaker 1: be in the moment, non judgmental, only thinking about what
44:15
Speaker 1: we're doing, these sorts of things that we no longer do,
44:19
Speaker 1: I think that's a that's a great broader concept for
44:23
Speaker 1: me anyway.
44:24
Speaker 2: For me, a lot of this is about attentional control
44:28
Speaker 2: and just the power of that single focused attention. I mean,
44:33
Speaker 2: what one little thing that I love to do just
44:35
Speaker 2: to take a little bit of a break if I'm working,
44:38
Speaker 2: is I'll just get a Deac cards out and play
44:39
Speaker 2: patients or Solitaire because you're completely mind it's a completely
44:45
Speaker 2: mindful activity and it can I think anything that where
44:49
Speaker 2: you are completely focused but also uses your hands and
44:53
Speaker 2: that drawing ideas.
44:55
Speaker 1: And if I had you hooked up all, if I
44:57
Speaker 1: had you hooked up, I would show you how you
45:00
Speaker 1: breathing came into being longer on the out and that
45:07
Speaker 1: your HRV changed without you thinking about.
45:12
Speaker 2: Ah nice, Okay, so it's a little that's what happened there,
45:17
Speaker 2: we go.
45:18
Speaker 1: See. So now for another person, that may not be
45:20
Speaker 1: the case. You know, we've experimented with a lot of
45:24
Speaker 1: different sort of people. As long as they stop thinking
45:29
Speaker 1: about the future and the past, they start thinking about
45:32
Speaker 1: just what they're doing, not that you know, not being
45:36
Speaker 1: judgmental about what they're doing. Then suddenly their brain shifts
45:41
Speaker 1: into this relaxation note it shifts into alpha waves. Yeah, okay,
45:48
Speaker 1: it jumps from any speedy highway we've been on down
45:51
Speaker 1: into alpha.
45:52
Speaker 2: Way, which is ultimately what we're after, right.
45:55
Speaker 1: Because it's the wave which is going to be the
45:59
Speaker 1: neuronal activity that's going to carry the relaxation of hormones.
46:05
Speaker 1: And there are many of them.
46:06
Speaker 2: As you pointed out earlier on, we are into this
46:10
Speaker 2: area of psycho neeural immunology, right it is. There's a
46:14
Speaker 2: city going on, there's messenger molecules happening, there's hormones being
46:19
Speaker 2: There is just this biological orchestra.
46:24
Speaker 1: That's how absolutely yeah, no, and it's and it's all
46:27
Speaker 1: over the brain. You know, it was really easy twenty
46:31
Speaker 1: or thirty years ago. Well it was that side of
46:33
Speaker 1: the brain or that you know, we could say. But
46:35
Speaker 1: it's just got so the more we did, the bitter
46:39
Speaker 1: the technology do we get to look in there, the
46:42
Speaker 1: more complex it gets. It is unbelievably complex in there.
46:47
Speaker 1: But it's also incredibly straightforward in parts too.
46:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, in terms of the takeouts for people are correct, Yeah, correct, yeah, prect.
46:57
Speaker 1: We just don't know always the why. And because you
46:59
Speaker 1: don't know the why, sometimes that leads to a whole
47:03
Speaker 1: different understanding as you go along. I would love to
47:09
Speaker 1: still be here in fifty years time and see what
47:12
Speaker 1: we know then. Yeah, particularly as we apply AARI, it's
47:18
Speaker 1: going to expand the knowledge in these areas unbelievably.
47:23
Speaker 2: So so will it will Let's not talk about signed
47:29
Speaker 2: and it's act of signed on the brain. I am
47:34
Speaker 2: years ago at a little play with biurnal beats and
47:39
Speaker 2: then just kind of forgot all about it. So told
47:42
Speaker 2: us about biurnal beats and is there is there anything
47:45
Speaker 2: else in terms of the signed and the benefits that
47:49
Speaker 2: it can actually have on our shifting our states.
47:54
Speaker 1: Well, we all understand sound and in the sense that
47:58
Speaker 1: there's a reason there's a march beat for people going
48:02
Speaker 1: into battle.
48:04
Speaker 2: There's a let so you're talking, you're singing my song.
48:08
Speaker 1: Isn't it there? It is? You know, and so why
48:11
Speaker 1: would that do that? And on the other side of it,
48:14
Speaker 1: you know, there is music which is just so emotional.
48:18
Speaker 1: There is music that is relaxing to a point. You know,
48:24
Speaker 1: we have bursts of it. But the music itself is
48:28
Speaker 1: driven usually by environmental factors. We associate a lot of
48:34
Speaker 1: it with environmental Some of it does over all increase
48:41
Speaker 1: or create a beat. Now, the idea of biournal beats
48:46
Speaker 1: and monos and synchronistic ones, they're all around. The idea is,
48:50
Speaker 1: of course that if the brain waves are operating at
48:55
Speaker 1: different levels. If there is a beat that are social
49:00
Speaker 1: siates itself with a alpha way, a relaxing way, versus
49:05
Speaker 1: a beat that associates itself with say a faster beta
49:12
Speaker 1: gamma way, could I trick the brain? And I say
49:16
Speaker 1: trick the brain because you're talking now about bringing in
49:21
Speaker 1: a sound beat to effect an electrical impulse going on
49:25
Speaker 1: in the brain. And the answer to that is, and
49:28
Speaker 1: it was discovered many many years ago. We're talking ancient
49:32
Speaker 1: history really in something it's been around for so long,
49:36
Speaker 1: but we do understand the signs of it now is
49:39
Speaker 1: that you know, if I put four hundred and fifty
49:42
Speaker 1: herts in one ear and I put four hundred and
49:45
Speaker 1: forty herts in the other, the brain actually recognizes that
49:50
Speaker 1: there's a difference in sound level of ten, and interestingly enough,
49:55
Speaker 1: it converts that into shifting in waves with neurons that
50:02
Speaker 1: are active at the time into the same bit, you know,
50:07
Speaker 1: the beat to the brain waves. So you move into
50:10
Speaker 1: an alpha way. And that's been shown. So if you
50:15
Speaker 1: can bring sound in which is just audible, you can
50:18
Speaker 1: actually if I'm trying to meditate, but I'm hopeless at
50:22
Speaker 1: you know, I just can't. How many of your clients.
50:26
Speaker 1: You know, the executives you've made have gone, Oh, I
50:28
Speaker 1: I try and do this meditation stuff, you know, and
50:31
Speaker 1: I and in practice, I've had people I would say that, look,
50:35
Speaker 1: you're so stressed, you're on these drugs. You know you're
50:38
Speaker 1: going to die. You know you've got to do this,
50:40
Speaker 1: And they come back a month later. Yeah, I got
50:42
Speaker 1: it to try for a while, but I'm not doing it.
50:43
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I just lost interest. Yeah, but I'm saying,
50:46
Speaker 1: but you're going to die. You know. You've also not
50:49
Speaker 1: taken your medication. You know. Oh, I don't know. They
50:54
Speaker 1: just missed the whole. You know, You've just got to
50:57
Speaker 1: find other avenues in a world of pills. Can you
51:01
Speaker 1: just give me a pill? And you know I can
51:04
Speaker 1: just take it every day. I can't remember to do
51:06
Speaker 1: that either. I'll have to get my wife to tell
51:08
Speaker 1: me every day to take my cancer drugs. I don't die.
51:12
Speaker 1: But putting that aside, in the behavioral psychology part of
51:16
Speaker 1: the world, here is something where you know, if I
51:20
Speaker 1: actually just pop this on while I'm walking or I'm
51:23
Speaker 1: sitting there listening to something else, I'm about to go
51:27
Speaker 1: to bed. If I can actually shift my brain waves
51:30
Speaker 1: into the place where I'm now going to relax. I'm
51:36
Speaker 1: now going to stimulate the parts of the brain that
51:41
Speaker 1: will relax me. Why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't
51:45
Speaker 1: you do that? And I've developed up my own ones
51:48
Speaker 1: there about over ten years and I've got three for stress,
51:52
Speaker 1: three for sleep, and two for stimulation. So in other words,
51:56
Speaker 1: change mood up, relax and special one for sleep as well.
52:01
Speaker 1: And what I'm linking all of that too, is because
52:03
Speaker 1: guess what HRV also is indicative? You know when hr V,
52:10
Speaker 1: when variation is high and we're relaxed, guess what happens
52:14
Speaker 1: with the brain? You know where the brain waves are.
52:17
Speaker 1: You know they're in alpha. Well, isn't that interesting? So
52:21
Speaker 1: now if I can actually stimulate that brain wave, can
52:24
Speaker 1: I work the other way?
52:26
Speaker 2: That was by question? So can we manipulate the brain
52:30
Speaker 2: waves with signed too? Then emparctype variability correct, and we can.
52:38
Speaker 2: So it's a part under top dime process.
52:41
Speaker 1: Correct.
52:42
Speaker 2: That's cool.
52:44
Speaker 1: It is very cool because apart from obviously that our
52:48
Speaker 1: big visual cortex world, sound is our other one. You know,
52:55
Speaker 1: it is a it is a major player all across
52:58
Speaker 1: the brain. And so you know, depending on the activity.
53:02
Speaker 1: So you're trying to fall asleep or you want to
53:05
Speaker 1: go to sleep, and you're trying to gear down, but
53:08
Speaker 1: you've just got so much going on in your head.
53:11
Speaker 1: You can actually encourage the brain to look for the
53:16
Speaker 1: brain pathways which are slower and stimulate that, and they
53:21
Speaker 1: will stimulate those so that the parasympathetic system will be
53:24
Speaker 1: operated and it will start to produce the aumonents for
53:29
Speaker 1: relaxation and eventually sleep of course, so it's a very
53:33
Speaker 1: dynamic system, but sound certainly works that.
53:37
Speaker 2: That is very cool indeed, because I know and I
53:40
Speaker 2: often talk when I'm doing worship, so you can use
53:42
Speaker 2: the breath to dine rage eliot or upbreak eliot, and
53:47
Speaker 2: with doing a septic cyclical controlled hypervantiliation will reach adrenaline
53:52
Speaker 2: and up regulate you fruit so you don't have to
53:54
Speaker 2: erek coffee in the afternoon. But that's pretty cool that
53:59
Speaker 2: we can use signed to booth din regulate and not regulate.
54:04
Speaker 2: People will get that instinctively, right from a bit of relaxing.
54:08
Speaker 5: Classical music versus thrash metals are very different, but that.
54:13
Speaker 1: Comes with emotional controls, so in broad sense that's good.
54:19
Speaker 1: You know, listening to the rain Peter Potter on the roof,
54:22
Speaker 1: but eventually it bothers you or you don't listen to it,
54:26
Speaker 1: or you don't hear it, or so when you're actually
54:30
Speaker 1: think in terms of vaguel tone and you think of
54:34
Speaker 1: the tones that are created in certain beats, there is
54:39
Speaker 1: across over this and you only have to just hear it.
54:41
Speaker 1: Your brain will actually adjust the brain waves as long
54:45
Speaker 1: as it can just barely hear it. Fascinating, isn't it.
54:50
Speaker 1: And so you're in a world now where you're able
54:53
Speaker 1: to go, well, I can quickly measure myself and it
54:56
Speaker 1: will tell me straight away which of those sounds to you,
55:01
Speaker 1: and not only tell me, but we'll deliver it to me. Right.
55:04
Speaker 2: So you're talking about measuring yourself through heart red variability
55:07
Speaker 2: with a fingerpul soul or something on your wrist. So
55:12
Speaker 2: I'll tell your heart red variability, and now you can
55:14
Speaker 2: go right based on that heart red variability. Here is
55:18
Speaker 2: the soundtrack that you need to listen to to get
55:21
Speaker 2: your brain.
55:22
Speaker 1: To get yourself in nervous system and to get yourself
55:26
Speaker 1: regulating correctly.
55:28
Speaker 2: That's very cool. Shit, Yeah, that is.
55:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's exactly where I am now. So and
55:34
Speaker 1: you won't have to think about it. It'll tell you
55:37
Speaker 1: very great. I need to listen to this for ten minutes,
55:40
Speaker 1: twenty minutes or thirty minutes.
55:42
Speaker 5: And is that not publicly available or are you just
55:46
Speaker 5: finessing it for well?
55:48
Speaker 1: The sounds are available now at colotation dot com. Yeah,
55:53
Speaker 1: how a patient, but soon it will be available with
55:57
Speaker 1: the HIV as well. And I use that all the time,
56:03
Speaker 1: so whether I'm working with rugby clubs or football clubs,
56:09
Speaker 1: or at hot spars all sorts of places, or in
56:14
Speaker 1: management team things where the big area of course pre menopausal,
56:21
Speaker 1: very mini pausal and menopausal women as well, huge issues
56:25
Speaker 1: of hormonal regulation. Again, you know, the ability to use
56:31
Speaker 1: not just the breathing, but be able to use that
56:35
Speaker 1: with sound.
56:37
Speaker 5: Yeah, And is that an hard of the fact if
56:41
Speaker 5: there's breathing with because you're telling you're actually ensuring the
56:47
Speaker 5: maximum number of brain waves involved in the maximum number
56:51
Speaker 5: of brain regions that are involved in relaxing.
56:55
Speaker 1: You are activated. Okay. Yeah. The brain just looks for
57:01
Speaker 1: the highways. It just follow, you know, and if they're
57:04
Speaker 1: not there, it doesn't follow, it won't go there.
57:09
Speaker 2: Doctor stan Rodski, this has been freaking awesome where can
57:13
Speaker 2: people go to find out more about you and to
57:18
Speaker 2: get any information or tools that they can use to.
57:23
Speaker 1: Hack their biology. Yeah, no, go to colotation dot com.
57:29
Speaker 2: So spell that out for us.
57:30
Speaker 1: Is that co O l O U T A t
57:34
Speaker 1: io in dot com? The books are there, that sounds
57:40
Speaker 1: are there, that I've written about the science there as well,
57:43
Speaker 1: so and they're welcome. And that's where they'll find in
57:46
Speaker 1: the future, the new technology, the HLV technology connect that
57:51
Speaker 1: they'll be able to get the whole lot awesome.
57:56
Speaker 2: Neither of us are likely to be around in fifty
57:59
Speaker 2: years to see where to crec AI, But I think
58:03
Speaker 2: it's a pretty exciting space that you are on the
58:06
Speaker 2: bleeding edge of. So just keep moving along.
58:10
Speaker 1: Keep Poto. Thanks for a chance to talk that awesome