Latest / Outside The Therapy Room / Episode 61 - Outgrowing Yourself: How Women Navigate Identity, Change, and Self-Discovery with Lacey Heels

Transcript

Episode 61 - Outgrowing Yourself: How Women Navigate Identity, Change, and Self-Discovery with Lacey Heels · Outside The Therapy Room

• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone, welcome back to outside the therapy room.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am so excited to have Lacey back.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Lacey.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hello there.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: You were here last, I mean earlier this season to promote your book.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this time I invited you on to talk a little bit about kind of self-discovery and that journey that we go through.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: You are the writer of the Rebirth Rituals.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's still out on Amazon if folks want to get their copy.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: But can you reintroduce yourself to our listeners more so in this journey of self-discovery?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, everybody.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to be back.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: My name is Lacey.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, like I'm sure many of you, I've done many things in my life, but I think when it all comes down to it, I love to be this facilitator and guide for transformation, specifically as it relates to like how we're moving through different stages of our life.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just always advocating for the person across from me to understand what it is that they want in their life, their work, their relationship, and helping them to peel back the layers of programming, conditioning, and beliefs and all these things.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I work in that space of mindset and coaching and personal development and try to do it in a really, I think, personal way where we integrate creativity and rituals and have fun with it as much as we can.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, you can you can find me talking about all that stuff all the time.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And this is why you're the perfect person to have this conversation with.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: We were kind of fangirling over each other before we recorded.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: But there's been so much um talk, I think, in both of our spaces around outgrowing versions of ourselves.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I know in the therapy room, I've had a few clients, you know, maybe in like the 30s, 40s age range where they're kind of recognizing that maybe they're outgrowing their place of work, or maybe um their values aren't aligning anymore.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also friendships, maybe in relationships, kind of recognizing that they're growing into a new version of themselves.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one, a very beautiful thing.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: But two, it can make some of those um dynamics or environments a little bit more challenging, or um, you know, the people around us are wanting to, not maliciously, but are wanting to kind of keep us with the version of themselves that they know.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do you think um like the focus on women and identity and transformation kind of show up in in your life as well?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, it's so juicy because this is so real for so many of us.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think I'm finding this this trend, maybe it's just like the the communities I'm in, the the people that I work with, but it is this pattern that's showing up at the stages of life that we're mentioning.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: And what I really find is like, okay, so you're you're definitely going through this transition of identity, expression, belief, value, priorities, all of these things that can be kind of happening at once.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe we don't know that's what's happening.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, first of all, if you're feeling like I kind of describe it as like a quiet discontentment, or maybe you're just not feeling um, so like things that used to light you up or motivate you don't motivate you or light you up in the same way anymore.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, maybe you're finding yourself drawn to different things.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: And when you're around maybe it's old friend groups or community, if it could be job, it could be relationship, anything, if it's starting to feel constrictive or limited or like it's not fulfilling you anymore, and you find yourself thinking about what else is here for me, what else is possible, if you're starting to feel those questions come through you, whether it's just quietly inward with yourself, that's a pretty good indication that like you're moving through something.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: There is shifts happening beneath the surface that maybe you can't um, you know, even define.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think just like paying attention, paying attention to the things, the thoughts that roll through your mind and how you how you feel in your body when you're in different environments.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's the first step is just like take note of what you're moving through, and that could be a pretty good indication that you too are moving through a big shift of perhaps identity, beliefs, values, and interests.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and you get to a point where it becomes it's like that quote.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: What is that quote?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the the fear of change becomes like the the discomfort of staying where you are becomes greater than the discomfort of making that change and trying something else and stepping into the new chapter.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just like you know, facing yourself in the mirror and having the courage and bravery to acknowledge that and then move through it.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I see this a lot and it usually comes up in those questions.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I used to love this, now I don't.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I used to feel this way, now I don't.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel, you know, I don't feel understood or seen in the groups that I usually feel or felt that way in.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that's like a just like a really good starting point.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it usually pops up in like community friendships, career is a big one as well.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what I'm seeing, and then I find that people often find me when they're in that transition and they're wondering how do I get from A to B.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it is big, it's very full of emotional experience and grief and all of these things.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's good to find at least one person that you can ride that out with and like talk to about that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of my overarching kind of um experience with it at this time.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it can be so daunting and sometimes scary, right?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: We talk a lot about like this.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You you mentioned identity, and we'll get to identity in a second.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I think we talk so much about the shift that happens in like teenagehood into womanhood.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like a big change where we're experiencing similar things, right?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like new friend groups, new interests.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: And within our community of friends, sometimes we end up shifting into different interests.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so then there's kind of like a disconnect, and some friends might kind of end at that time, or there may be some distance.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: But that's kind of a common thing to talk about.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're growing into your adulthood.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: But when we're actually in adulthood, like we're not gonna stay stagnant, we're not gonna just be one thing the whole time.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: There is different kinds of growth that we experience um in those times, and it can be different for everybody.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: People in your community can be growing at different times, but it is something that I don't think is really talked about as often as it is during like teenage into womanhood.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, so that's gonna be our topic today.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I do want to kind of focus in on identity first because you know, you touched on identity in inside and outside of the therapy room, there's a lot of like, well, is it okay for me to have many different identities?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And my answer is always like, well, yeah, of course.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're more than one thing.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um but so many women can sometimes feel like they're changing, but it's really hard to articulate, like you mentioned.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um so what is, I guess, how do you define identity in the context of women's lives?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: These are so good.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think like just to bounce off what you're saying, I love that we both have our Tim Hortons right now.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: We need coffee, we need fuel.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love what you're saying because like, first of all, I think like I'm calling it it's like the second adolescence.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's that that moment in time where you are you're you're coming into that, not maybe not quite even midlife, but it's like you're approaching and maybe in that midlife and and beyond, and you're starting to feel these shifts inside.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the opportunity where you get to revisit, rescript, recalibrate some of the decisions that you made when you were a young adolescent.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps at that time, which like I can speak to that, like at that time I was making decisions from the place of um just like it's that identity that is built through external validation a lot of times.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's driven by like acquisition and building yourself and sort of like who am I?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Let's go fight, let's go build it and let's achieve, let's grow.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's that discovery, that fresh space of oh, let's try it all and let's do the things.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and perhaps we don't even know that underneath all that we're making decisions from certain programming that we have from our past and our upbringing and conditioning and society and culture.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: All of that.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and it's beautiful because you get to discover yourself in that phase of life.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then you come into second adolescence, we'll call it.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where you're you're coming into yourself.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: You have experienced wisdom, you've fallen a few times and gotten back up, you know, you've scraped your knees and built that resilience and perhaps even done some of that self-work to start to peel back the layers of like, why didn't I choose this?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Or did what I choose then does still make sense now?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like this period of almost re-evaluation and just making sure that things still make sense for you and where you're at now.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: So when we move through that, there's definitely like a certain discomfort and grief and even isolation.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't have people to talk to, if you're feeling disconnected from certain community friendships, relationships, it can be a lonely journey.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like it's such a rite of passage to move through as women.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's so important to find yourself surrounded with other people, other humans that are perhaps maybe moving through that too or have moved through it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: So they can hold up a mirror and let you know, like you're not alone.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: What you're feeling is so normal.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, it's really good because what you're doing right now is you're allowing yourself to remove the things that maybe don't resonate or align as much anymore, and creating more space for you to step into what could be for you next.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's like you said, it can be quite scary to move through that.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I think like you will bump up against friction when you're moving through that.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I learned I learned about boundaries.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: I learned a lot about boundaries from you.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, when you start to explore setting those boundaries, first finding your voice, starting to, you know, step out of maybe some of those roles that you took on in early adolescence.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I was always known as a caregiver, that people pleaser, making sure everyone else is okay, and also just like the high achieving productivity self as well.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you move from that like external sort of validated identity into the now, and maybe you're being internally driven to understand who are you now without all the roles.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Who are you underneath all the roles that you took on?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's quite a journey and it's like a lifelong practice too, because you're gonna go through it multiple times, I think, throughout your second adolescence and beyond.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like we're kind of shedding versions of ourselves, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're shedding skin, versions of ourselves from before, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, but it can definitely be everything you said.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: There could be grief, there could be excitement, there could be a sense of loneliness while we do that as well.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also kind of hearing you talk that young adolescent shift, it it can, we can be so much more open to trying it all because there's less risk, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have as much responsibility.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: But into second adolescence, as we're calling it, there is pressure and there is a lot of responsibility.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: We might have careers and a salary, and we have we may have partners and kids to take care of or a mortgage and you know, like pets and all of these other kinds of responsibilities that exist there.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we are wanting to kind of make those changes, we might not have the freedom like we did when we were younger.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so it may look a little bit different, but how do you think social expectations or cultural pressures like this can impact a woman's sense of self?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's just so much pressure.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: There's always been so much pressure to do things a certain way.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like as soon as you start stepping out of that, um, we'll say just like external expectation, pressure, whatever, wherever it's coming from, whenever you start to like choose differently, which is a wonderful, beautiful thing, you will start to maybe you will come up against um like friction or or reactions of people that you love and that love you that like push back because they're like you had said earlier, like they're used to a certain version of you.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And there's that, like, you know, that's that famous quote that's like, you know, the ones that benefited from you not having certain boundaries are the ones that will have the largest reactions against you setting those new boundaries.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's like one part of it.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I think like you just it's such a big part of this.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for me and my own personal experience, I didn't even, I wasn't even aware that I was like kind of following those scripts, you know, like and that's what I kind of see them as is these like social cultural scripts, um, what we've been taught is the norm or what we should follow.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: But we have to recognize the world has changed so much, even from when our parents were kind of coming up.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the the world is different.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: Women are gaining more and more opportunity and independence and power and resource.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so then when you're like we contain multitudes, period.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: So when we allow ourselves to take up the space and all of a sudden we're trying on all these things that we maybe hid or buried before to fit into that societal norm, um, it's exhilarating, it's terrifying.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you will find yourself naturally wondering is is the role, is the work still the right thing for me?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Is this relationship still the right thing for me?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is where I live the, you know, so it's like you kind of have to go through this almost audit of your life again when you start to shift and change and release old expectations and pressures and step into what's true for you.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um I I just think like so many of us know what that feels like.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm sure, I'm sure you can think of different examples or maybe milestones in your life where you kind of came face to face with those sorts of experiences and being like, okay, what am I gonna do?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Am I gonna keep going with what um is expected of me and that like maybe is familiar and comfortable in that way, or do I need to like answer this call, that tug that's tugging you toward deeper alignment and truer authenticity and alignment in your life.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then you and then you get into that in-between space.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what I wrote a lot about in the book of what when you've kind of realize that the old, you know, the old version will say too tight, doesn't fit anymore, itchy.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like I picture this thing that needs to shed.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then you you're like, okay, I know, I know I need to let this go.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're like you said, we have so many um maybe responsibilities, whether it's like finances, maybe it's a mortgage, it's kids, it's you know, the responsibilities you have in your life, you can't just up and like drop them and let them sang them.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's that's like the freedom of like we'll say that the young adolescents is you can pivot and shift and change and leap pretty quickly if you are, you know, comfortable with like taking those risks, which we often are when we're young, but now later we know more and we understand um there are responsibilities that we have and that we hold.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so, how do we continue managing those responsibilities safely, responsibly, while allowing ourselves to move through changes?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think what like overall, I would just say it looks different in your um in second pedal within womanhood because it just might be more methodical, more strategic.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: You need to give your time, yourself some time and space to make a plan.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so you might see this change happen over years versus weeks or months.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I just think like it's like it's worth it and you're worth it, and you're like you deserve to allow yourself to move through the change.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I love everything that you said there and how you kind of ended.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is about being strategic because if somebody is suddenly itching to be like, I can't live in this house anymore, I don't want to live in this province anymore.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I hate the snow, I'm gonna move.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot more people to kind of discuss and include in that conversation.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it is about coming down to a compromise, having those conversations, which can be scary to have, but to see what can happen.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if they aren't possible in that moment for a variety of reasons, it's okay, well, how can I still like, you know, this still feels itchy, kind of like you said, like what can I do to kind of scratch that itch?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's, you know, having like a weekend away or, or you know, like doing a night in a hotel, like I just kind of want nice space or go visit a town close to me.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like there are still ways that we can meet our responsibilities and be smart and safe about it and still scratch that itch and still do that thing that we're really, you know, wanting to do.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, as you kind of mentioned, for I don't know what you were talking, I thought about hair.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we're young, sometimes we just like, I know for me at least, like I changed my hair all the time, no problem.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like, yes, new beginning.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like now I'm gonna have blue hair.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's all good.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then I switched to pink hair, and then it was like a whole new personality that kind of came.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: But there is that, you know, flexibility for us to just try something new.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas in womanhood now, for you know, I would love to dye my hair pink, but there's like, do I need to?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's all of these other things that kind of come into it.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same with like these big changes as well.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you touched on a couple of things um earlier about how you can maybe identify to that like restlessness of wanting some change.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what are some common patterns or feelings that would maybe indicate to someone that it's time for a change?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I wrote this down because it's these are conversations I think both of you and I share.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're having a lot with people in our community and our work.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um it it there are patterns and there are things that I think as you listen, you'll be like, Yeah, yeah, if it's not me, I know a girlfriend or someone that I is going through this.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: So it's usually some some sometimes it's patterns, sometimes it's just like uh like I had said, sometimes it's like that quiet discontentment and it it feels maybe vague.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like the challenge there is just to maybe try and locate when does this discomfort show up for you?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is it when I'm at work?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is it when I'm around, you know, my partner or in in my home?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is it when I'm with friends that maybe no longer allow like that, those are those things that you can start to quietly ask yourself.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because if it's just a general discontentment or like feeling not yourself, and you know the feeling between feeling closed off and like needing to protect, even in your body language, needing to protect yourself versus feeling like a little more free and open, and like that's that's so telling.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so pay attention to that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's just to add to that too.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's so I mean, we've talked about it, there's so much mind-body connection.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: If we're feeling anxious, it shows up in our body.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: If we're feeling a sense of discomfort, it's gonna show up in our body.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes we connect it to something physical, like, oh no, I must have eaten something, like eat something bad, or you know, I slept the wrong way.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's why my shoulders hurting.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it is about having those moments of curiosity and reflection, like all of the questions that that you mentioned to kind of really think about what how is my body showing up?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is this like tiredness or is this not?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: more yeah ooh and I've gone through this like there were there were long stretches of times where I just felt myself it sort of felt like the um like the spark uh was just like going out for me and not not to sound too dark about it but that's how it felt like I I can feel myself when I am feeling lit from within and like fulfilled and excited and I'm driven by like that joy of learning and um building and meeting people and new things and just like that that overall just you're on the path of expansion growth and change.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: When that's not happening for me I get quiet I get sad and I feel my body closing off and um another another sign so we'll move in.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just like my own experience and I've been there and you can feel the difference for yourself.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also burnout burnout can show up because there's there's stress but extended stress over time can turn into burnout and this is usually a very good indication that somewhere in your life something's not working or not sustainable for you any longer.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: And like that could be from constantly performing or pleasing because maybe at one point that felt totally natural organic fulfilling to you whatever that thing is but now you're showing up it's not lighting you up in the same way.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: So therefore you are putting on a bit of a performance and that can be subtle that can be you know you will understand how that feels more than anyone but that's how it shows it showed up for me as well um it's like feeling drained after right like you're like with now if you're having to perform a whole day at work because you have to act like you're as excited as you were the first couple years of you working you're gonna feel more drained after work.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so those are good good signs to kind of look out for sorry interrupted.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no no absolutely and I think like just jumping off of that too it's like you can also start to feel emotionally numb yes in certain areas of your life that maybe you didn't before um just like flat I would describe it as flat um or or on the opposite side maybe you're feeling like a strong curiosity about something you want to explore something.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're being pulled into maybe a different direction where perhaps you're feeling inspired to try something you've never tried or try something that maybe and I'm doing air quotes here doesn't fit who people know you to be which again that doesn't matter but in the scheme of this journey sometimes we think about perception and what other people will think and that can stop certain that can stop us from trying things that maybe we truly want to do and try because there is that fear like will I lose people will people think differently of me etc etc but I think if you're feeling that strong curiosity in the tug that's also a good clue.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then just like a general sense that you feel like you've outgrown your environment or maybe even your routines or certain beliefs or values or people in your life and roles as we mentioned before.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I just think those things are really strong indications that like something is shifting or something doesn't fit anymore.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course the big one is just feeling grief grief for those old roles or maybe old connections or how things used to be I felt this in friendship shifts in um I think like a couple years ago I went through a big like career shift with identity and feeling a lot of confusion and grief and just like a little untethered for a moment because like before we started this I was like yeah but I was like searching for my next big thing to work on.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: But while I was in that in-between for like two years and when I wrote the book that's that was me going through that shift.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then as I stepped into this new chapter I also I don't want to say lost a number of friendships but a number of friendships no longer aligned and I think we mutually released one another.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's grief.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much grief with that or like if you haven't gotten to the point where you've made those changes and you've either faded from each other's lives or you've released one another um you'll feel it when you're with each other like you said.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: You'll feel like that drain that sense of being drained rather than filled up after you've spent time together.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I've been talking to women in my line of work where they describe just that like you know I'm I'm making new friendships with you know moms at my kiddo school and they feel really easy and they feel really um I don't know maybe there's like a level of confidence that you have in beginning conversations and initiating hangouts and doing all of these things which you know a lot of a lot of you know maybe clients have said that I don't I'm not that version of me with my friend group from when I was younger.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so there is this kind of you know also a reflection of wow this is I'm showing up so differently in this space than how I show up in this space.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it's again not I don't think it happens intentionally but when you start okay let me go back we can sometimes be assigned a role in any kind of dynamic right in a family dynamic in a friendship dynamic we either choose it or we're assigned it and we're in that role but that now is what is that's the role that we're always gonna have to kind of be in because it's what's expected of us in that dynamic.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you are in this you know this group and you are not the one the initiates if you want to initiate but then it's kind of like nope that's not your role obviously it's not going to be set in that way but if it's shut down in some way then that that can start feeling really frustrating when you're able to kind of not have a different role in a new friendship and a new connection.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we start trying to shift out of our roles in these you know systems that have been existing for a long time it's we're disturbing it.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're disturbing the system we're ruffling feathers we're shifting things around and not everyone is going to be comfortable with it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And people might kind of tie us down to go back into our box that we fit in which is that role and I I want to preface this by saying like people aren't doing that to be mean to you or to you know sometimes most times hopefully that's not actually what's happening but it's just what is expected it's um it's kind of something that can be um oh what is the word predictable there's a predictability that feels really comfortable in that system dynamic that trying to go off of that just raises a lot of you know like nerves for everyone else.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so they want to bring it back to something that they're comfortable in.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if you if you do find yourself recognizing that you're you know fe behaving really differently or feeling differently in a new group compared to an old group it can be like a moment of just exploring having that curiosity journaling doing those things to try to understand exactly why that's happened.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Has it been that you know the friendships have changed or is it that you're kind of changing and growing in this moment?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's also something really important to just look at.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: That was so well said.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like you know I think back to something maybe you said earlier it's just like everybody changes and grows in a like we are all on different um what am I looking for?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: We're all at different stages of that journey.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: There it is.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes there it is we're we're all at different stages of this growth journey this healing journey the things that shift and sort of center us.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you and your friends who met at a certain life stage um might be moving through those things at different um paces as well and that's okay.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: It I think like what you said is something I've lit like I I felt that this really in my body because I've I've just lived through so much of it um kind of exiting the 20s entering the 30s now into mid-30s.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody is kind of moving into different life um styles and stages of life and it can happen organically you know but I think like you'll know when you're around one another how that's feeling and sometimes we hold on just like in relationships sometimes we hold on a little too long just because there's so much um history or attachment and love.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: But it's okay and I think like you I think something that I started doing because I think post pandemic this was something we a lot of us felt was just like that general isolation and I think about like how social I was before the pandemic versus after in the years following it's so different.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: So different and it's it's shifted like who I am and what I care about and where I want to spend my time.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so now it's like there's much more discernment around okay if I'm going I'm gonna make sure that it's something I really want to do with people I really want to be around and it's important you're more selective.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you're selecting you know who you are actually going to want to spend that time with.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And also this goes with boundaries as well when we recognize that somebody is fully draining us then that's a pretty good indicator that maybe that friendship or that person, the relationship that you have with that person has shifted but you will be very quick at picking up the people that actually energize you or that you feel really kind of satisfied with at the end of the day.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like you come home and you're like wow that was like that kind of like lit me up or I felt really good or that was just what I needed.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that can kind of again be a great indicator that those friendships are maybe ones that we can prioritize a little bit more because we feel good in them.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah I think yeah I think too you know a lot of the things we mentioned for signs that maybe it's time to kind of practice that transformation or question all of those things can also just be normal life stress.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so how do we or how can women kind of distinguish the difference between that normal life stress and the deeper call to transformation.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So good and I honestly for me and my experience of it it's the difference is the stress part of it like just every day it's if something is stressing you or joining you or whatever it often feels like too much to just like heavy pressure overwhelm where that like that underbelly of like no something needs to change and transformation is you literally feel like you are being called you are being called to move to change to go towards something different and it is such a different feeling and there is there is a an overlap like in that Venn diagram there's an overlap where like it can be both and we can kind of sit in that for a bit trying to discern like okay is this just I'm stressed I'm I'm maybe in survival mode or I'm you know burnt out or whatever.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that that's can be very true and it can make things in your life feel different or disconnected or whatever.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think that like when it is something that is telling you it needs to change first of all it won't let go that feeling won't let go of you until you do it.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: If it's everyday stress those things fluctuate with time and you'll notice the difference for me that's what it is and it's like so simple but it's it's almost like an internal feeling of like you know I know I know if it's something asking me to make a change because it's there in my head like it doesn't like let go it's like what's meant for you will not pass you by or will not you know it's like that that sort of mentality and I think if you're having that trouble discerning like is this just everyday stress or do I need to change some things that's where you want to talk to people like you like find those people that can hold that space and hold up the mirror and have have you kind of move through that to do like just to decipher what the difference is like find community find support talk to your friends um because it it's it it can it can weigh on you if if left for too long and if you feel like just circling back if you feel like you don't have a plan or a way to start making that change it can just be all consuming.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I think like it's like anything it's like starting any new habit it's going to take um devotion discipline time and repetition.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: So really if you you decide like okay what it is that I need to change is maybe what I'm doing for work.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: These are things that you can't change overnight usually depending on your situation and responsibilities but you can start making little micro changes to get you toward the place where you can start to make that transition.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it looks like being curious and testing ideas for yourself.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can carve out just a little bit of space even every like a little me time every week where you ask yourself to be brave and to reach out maybe to different people that you see are doing things that maybe call to you or interesting to you or maybe have made pivots in their careers.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to be related to what you want to do or you don't even have to know what you want to do.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: But that's like that's something that I went through and it was so helpful to hear the wisdom of older women I would highly recommend connecting with a mentor just someone an elder who has that beautiful wisdom and lived experience where they can look at you and say to you with such warmth like what you're going through is normal and you're gonna be okay.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what it looked like for me.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh there is some like that gives me chills whenever I meet up with someone who's able to just see where I'm at in the timeline of my life and give it context in a way that I can't yet yeah yeah that is so great.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of what you're mentioning too is kind of like trial and error.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of the curiosity right and and I think we deserve to kind of be in that moment of exploration to be like okay what is this thing?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: If I want to try this thing okay let's go do a class or let's go you know try this thing and see how it goes.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if it you know fuels you amazing if you're like that really wasn't it wasn't it for me then it's there's no commitment right but then it is kind of part of that trial and error and then just surrounding yourself with community and I love that you know the mentor kind of that that example that you gave I think that it can be so helpful to have those conversations in real time with like you know older family members or strangers but also we are in such we have so many resources available to us now.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: We have podcasts we have books we have like you know social media when it's helpful and so they're these are easily accessible and if we go looking for it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I love all that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: And we kind of actually just jumped into the next question which was like how can women start exploring who they want to be next and so you mentioned curiosity testing things out having those important conversations with with other elders and is there anything else anything else that you would recommend for women starting to explore this new version?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely I do think like so something that was really helpful for me when I found myself maybe not as connected to certain communities or friend groups that I used or even workplace um and I was in that in-between of like okay what do I want to do next and how do I know what that is well then I got curious and started testing and testing things and running it's like a little experiment.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're just saying like okay let's taste test this and see if it's something that calls to me or I can just keep moving and try the next thing because it keeps you moving.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: So some things that I did I I um I joined a women's circle um where it was like cacao ceremony breath work yoga that sort of thing and I I went by myself I didn't know anybody I used to do this thing all the time when I was younger but I think just like growing up a bit and sort of you're in your own little world a little bit more it can take like you just have to be brave you just have to be brave and maybe sometimes force yourself to do these things.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I went and I had an incredible experience I met brand new women who are so beautiful spiritual energetic like just into some of those same things that I was exploring at the time and it's just another place of belonging that I didn't have before.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that was like one thing that I tried and then I think creativity has always been a great um outlet for me.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think like when you're moving through these shifts you have to be able to have an outlet for expression um finding your voice and what your voice needs to say now because I think a lot of us get quiet when we're moving through these changes oftentimes inside of ourselves alone.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to be able to find that thing that allows you to express either what you're moving through, what you're noticing, what you're excited by, what maybe what you're calling in and that can that can be journaling that can be singing that can be cooking dancing whatever just like make something that says something for yourself and it's so empowering and it it it's it's very feel good.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: So just yeah I think like explore with different things that allow you to express what's happening inside of you and get it out of you which we talked about in the last podcast.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then I think yeah and then I just think like just trust trust yourself and do not put pressure on yourself to figure things out on a certain timeline.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think just see it as like free exploration and see it as just like this is another form of self-love and giving yourself compassion and love and space to change and explore like you are allowed to change your mind and do things differently at every stage of your life and and that's what makes life more rich.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like that stage I would I would sum up this stage of life of moving from doing to being and you know it's it's so simple but it's just like we're who are you who are you underneath all the roles that you have taken on along the way and this is that I think give yourself permission to explore and give yourself permission to um try things and either be messy or mess it up or not like it to that's how you find the thing.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: So like I for in my career I was starting to do some freelance work when I shut down my last business and and sold that and that was in chapter closed great now I had all this space I didn't know what I wanted to do with like my work and livelihood and you know providing for myself but I was like doing the book and that was a really great express like outlet for expression.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then I started I was like oh maybe I want to get into real estate okay let's talk to a few real estate people and I I had these like amazing coffee dates and I talked to a couple people with mortgages and then I realized I didn't want to do that.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like this actually is not for me.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I honestly let's that's part of the journey.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: Let's keep going.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you know what I mean it's just like you know if you're one of those people that's like hi I've I've become known for this thing that I've done in my career for so long and now I don't resonate with it.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my God it's how everybody knows who I am it's how I know myself.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now how do I decide where I want to go next it's really about that call that tug to like what do you want to explore next if we we are living longer than we ever have before I think our parents' generation even they they picked a career and kind of like my parents stayed with the same career for like 45 years.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: It is so different now.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think just like allow yourself to see this timeline of your life as a big journey that gets to look different along the way.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah I think just like trust yourself to try things and figure it out and know that it will reveal itself what you need to be um shifting into next and give yourself the time the compassion and the the plan to start testing and making those steps toward change.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's how anything changes.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think now we just have that wisdom of like okay we know those overnight drastic changes aren't as sustainable as maybe they once were for us when we were younger but like we have more lived experience and hopefully resources and community to help us figure out what the next stage is going to be to be and how we move into it.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, one of the things too, maybe this goes to all of our um, you know, people who really want to be productive in every aspect, like it might show up in this aspect too, where you give yourself a timeline or you're very like rushed to kind of get over this discomfort of like, oh, you know, where do I want to go next?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: But as you pointed out, patience, self-compassion, and then just like ease into it.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't going to be something that you might have figured out in a month or two or three.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a journey and giving yourself space to be present in that instead of looking at the finish line.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because this is your life.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, naturally going to be an evolution of yourself throughout that time.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just important to be in it and be present without that feeling of rush.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: And something that I talk to clients a lot and something that I practice at home as well, or at least that I've been noticing is sometimes part of this journey is going back to things that really brought us joy when we were kids.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like me and my husband have been doing so much Lego like for ourselves.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like my husband's really into like F1 Lego collector.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we're collecting cards and we're building it together.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like a thing that we're doing but it also touches into like our inner child right like you know my husband didn't have too much Lego when he was growing up.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't something that you know his family was had the accessibility of of getting and so now we're able to do that for ourselves.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's great bonding for us but it's also so much fun.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I love that.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: And like coloring with my kiddos like that is something I always really enjoyed as a kiddo and really calmed me down.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes some of these things as we're becoming kids are trying to see you know what are some of these things we want to try.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's about kind of going back to like our inner child what were things that we maybe we loved dancing.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: We loved doing like somersaults or cartwheels outside like how can we apply some of those things to our lives now?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I could do a cartwheel.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be so fun was never something I could do when I was little I was always so jealous of those kids who could cartwheel.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: But like trying to get back into that play that creativity that we had because we all had it at one point it and then we lost 100%.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes when we're like we're taking on those roles and we get more responsibility we we kind of forget or we leave behind some of those really key elements and those are like those can be the key to discovering what what you are missing out on or what you're what you're yearning for now.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love that you guys are playing with Lego my I'll tell you what my playful things are recently.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah um so my partner and I got the Mario Kart on switch through the winter because like you know we can't go out as much and have been having a ball just just racing each other and competing and then we get his teenage daughters in the mix and then it's just like this friendly competition and everyone's laughing and just playing and then also oh my god I just got this little slime kit oh my gosh slime oh those are pretty they're very like pinky tones is it does the one have sparkles in it yes so you get there's like there's butter slime cloud slime and I love cloud slime cloud slime is so fun.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a cloud it is a cloud.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: So um and you can like add these little sparkles and things and that's cool.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think like it really helps me when um because I I like I like tactile I like playing with my hands and and just like getting back into your body and I find like this will help me if I just like maybe I'm watching something or or you know having a conversation or just chilling and just getting into the slime and then I found that like my my stepdaughters they're like so into it as well.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it becomes this bonding thing.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: It does and it's it's so fun to also watch kids watch adults around them be playful and tap into that because it's you can see this like thing in their face where they're like oh my god oh my god that's so fun like you are tap like you're playful and you're having fun and you're not being so serious and like you know we can get taught we can get tied up in that stuff.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you have kids around you or not it's like it's so good for you in general just like your energy and your playfulness and expression and yeah and excitement and energy and oh my gosh there was something I saw the other day that's like let yourself be cringe just let yourself be cringe who cares I know my son like I was dancing the other day to like a song like a frozen song um like from the movie and my son's like mummy and I'm like you know what like dance with me like he goes mummy you're being cringe I'm like good I want to be cringe and like sometimes we just yeah and and we model that for our kiddos right that you don't have to be so serious you don't have to be in this box and it's so playful for us too to kind of just reconnect with those younger versions of ourselves.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah it try to find it's so empowering yes it's so empowering and I think like at one of my last events it was about like honoring the in-between space of transformation and I am I basically because they came they had to play with ink and do art and get messy.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to tell like every single person left and they were like wow I I forgot about the little me.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot about her and it's it was interesting to me to observe how um apprehensive everyone was at first to dive into art and like just creativity and play when it's not a regular part of your day and when we are used to applying such maybe some rigid rules around how we explore um things and like maybe our jobs or our roles or whatever.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like you know my my guidelines they were like okay what do I do next and I was like what do you want to do next like you know so it was just like so uncomfortable for people they're like what do you mean like I need it made it made everyone uncomfortable but by the end everyone was having a blast and just like it was like they were just reminded in a glimpse in a moment of time amongst their peers that like oh this is fun.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: Why haven't I done something like it doesn't have to be that but like why don't I give myself the time to explore these things and it's is a it's brilliant what else can come up while you allow yourself to play.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I think like the the dots can sometimes connect for us.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and through play we can reconnect with things that we like and that can kind of be our bouncing off point towards something that we want to do now whether that's career or just hobby wise right um but yeah brilliant those it was yeah it's so fun.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's also so fun.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so I think throughout this we've talked a lot about like self-compassion um we've talked a lot about like curiosity rituals routines like things that people can do um sorry not routines ritual practices and like exercises for self-discovery like journaling you mentioned like your book was something that allowed you to kind of have get somewhere to explore your emotions and everything are there any other kind of similar practices um along with self-compassion that you we can use um just to kind of help us in the self-discovery journey yes I think when you are exploring and discovering and moving through change a lot of what was familiar and what maybe grounded or rooted you are the things that are being like if you picture like a plant being ripped out of the ground it's like a lot of those things are maybe now in the air for you and maybe that sense of like security starts to feel a little wobbly.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this is why I'm such a huge advocate for rituals and it's just like something done with intention with frequency.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it you know by the simple act of just doing something with intention with like frequency it allows you to create a familiar sort of ground for yourself.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: So find a thing and it can be anything it can be your morning tea and how you make it and how you care for yourself.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: It could be a more it could be a walk it could be just find that thing that you can do regularly that does something for you so that you are then creating sort of a familiar solid ground for yourself while you're moving through change.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: And like for for me when I was moving through big big change of and kind of released a lot of things that made me feel solid and solid ground um it was it was being around my animals and morning walks with some music or a podcast or whatever.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Really giving myself that time to just like be outside was so important for me walking feeling my body move and doing that regularly so that it was like it was that one it could just be one thing that just kind of grounds you.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: As you're moving through sometimes everything else can feel like it's uncertain and changing and that can be scary.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I would just suggest like it could be one little thing that's my biggest piece of advice as you're moving through change.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: But then I think just something else that is really powerful and we've mentioned this before but it's just find someone else you can talk to about it and maybe share that journey with I think I I had a friend that was going through big change as well.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: So and we were both writing so we created a little accountability buddy group and whether that looked like we would do like a coffee every other week together at some cafe and we would take turns picking where and just like we would go we call it our yap sessions where we would go and yap and gab and talk and just have coffee and like you know that alone was so beautiful and then we would hold each other accountable like okay now you need to jump on a zoom with me let's read each other's pages let's give each other feedback.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that that like helped me so much in a time when nothing felt certain or solid and I didn't know what I was going into next.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah I think just give yourself the familiarity and security and safety by following through on like a set of promise or an intention for yourself.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like every day as I move through all this I'm going to make sure that I at least do this one thing for myself.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: And then what you will find is it starts to like stack like those habits begin to stack and and then that progress becomes smoother and easier and before you know it you're looking back on the steps you've taken and you're realizing all the progress you've made and it all came down to just a couple small things that you did with frequency for yourself.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that's like some of the biggest things we can do for ourselves because all of our lives are going to be different and everything we're moving through is going to look unique for each of us but something that can really tether you is finding that practice for yourself.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to be journaling if journaling doesn't call to you I think just find something that really makes it could be a song in the morning a little dance one song you dance it out like there's so many examples.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: Actually there is a song I want to leave your audience with um I just heard this the other week and I think it's just like it's short it's simple it's beautiful but it's called So Much has changed by Marl M A R O and it's so beautiful because it just reflects on the journey of change and just like the very simple um clip that like got stuck in my head was so much has changed what a surprise seeing life different with the same old eyes and it goes on and there's more so go check it out but it's just like it's so beautiful like so much has changed.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: What a surprise and you're looking at your life thinking whoa I went from here to there to here but it's all been through like your eyes are the same as they were when you were a baby and there was just something about the eyes being the same and I just watched an episode of Paradise I think it's on Hulu Sterling K.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: Brown season two I just watched I think the was the third or fourth episode and they're living in a post-apocalyptic world I'm not gonna spoil it but this woman has this really beautiful monologue and it's kind of like a similar theme where she talks about like when she was a girl and they were playing in the rafters at the high school she's like I was just trying to make out with some boy and she's like now we're in a post-apocalyptic world and I'm watching my son go through a totally different upbringing blah blah blah with my same eyes but yeah decades of time have passed and it felt like yesterday that I was only 17.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just like it can be a bit overwhelming sometimes to think about the passage of time but at the same time it's actually so beautiful that we we are ourselves as much as we change and evolve like I felt like that metaphor of like your eyes are still the same and there's you're just seeing things through through different eyes but with the same eyes oh it got me take a listen see if it resonates but yeah yeah to the show notes.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I heard it twice like between the show and the song I was like whoa it was like the same reference in the same week and it just I've been kind of digesting on it as it relates to this and it feels right it feels right.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and I mean when we open our eyes to it we can see those things.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like when you buy a new car and then suddenly you're on the road and you see the same car everywhere all the time.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah it's like the same thing when you're kind of ready for change you'll start seeing it in in songs, in the media, in shows, movies, TVs, maybe even within your own circle um and those again can be moments that we can maybe feel like less alone.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're like oh it's happening all around us we just don't always know.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah hopefully that gives us also the courage to kind of you know push forward and do that.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah Lacey and we're going we're going through it together.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: We are we're all going through it together and there's like again an evolution we're constantly changing and we want that we don't want to just be stagnant right like we we want to change but it comes with a lot of things comes with a lot of fear grief worry like compromise it sure does and just like oh my gosh I was talking to my mom the other day and she's like in her 60s now and it was just so funny for me to hear her talk about like a new stage of life my stepdad is retiring and they're they're just kind of entering the new stage and I think there's some fear or maybe anxiety around oh like we've been so used to the way things have been for so many years.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now what's gonna happen and I'm like oh it never ends this this yeah this thing that we're describing here in this conversation I'm like oh you and I will be on this podcast when we're in our 60s.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean like okay we're awesome yeah like okay now what's up now what are we changing yeah yeah I mean it's so true and I and I think this podcast like this conversation came at a right time because I was literally just talking to my husband being like I'm so much more confident now than I was when I was like 16 20 22 even 24 and like it it's so different right it it's we are constantly kind of yeah just changing and it's fun and it's good.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah well yeah I could we could talk for hours and hours and hours but at least we could thank you so much for sharing all of your amazing insight um but before we go is there like one key piece of advice that you'd want to give to our listeners who maybe feel like they're stuck in this in-between space yes um I think we have a tendency to rush to feel like we need to get to the result or the outcome in many areas of our life including this and I can speak to it because I felt it as well but I think like something I'm hearing from people is like I need to make this how do I make a change because I need to make a change blah blah blah blah and it's like there is this pressure and almost rush to get to that result or that outcome before you even know what you want to do next right and it's just it's a it's natural for us to feel that because it feels uncomfortable sitting in an uncertain situation.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_02: We we like to know how things are going to go or what we can expect.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the the thing I would leave everyone with there is if you find yourself in that position right now um my invitation to you is to allow yourself to maybe sit in the uncertainty and the discomfort knowing that it is temporary.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: It is temporary and allow yourself to metabolize this change you're going through just like the butterfli the caterpillar the caterpillar goes into the chrysalis and it literally has to let go of its entire form it becomes goo inside the chrysalis and then it reforms itself into the butterfly but that the code the genetic code for what a butterfly is and what it's going to look like was already in the caterpillar already in you so whatever you are meant to do next has already been coded coded within you.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: You just need to give yourself some time now to release everything you were and that can be painful that can be full of grief and discomfort and all the things we discussed but it's it's meant to happen that way so that you can release and enter the world and become that next stage for yourself.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I think just allow yourself to sit with it and metabolize it and picture yourself in the chrysalis and remember that like every butterfly had to basically become goo in a cuckoo before it could grow those wings and fly.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know I feel like that's such a like we know that metaphor so well but it literally is something that happens in nature all the time.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: So allow yourself to be the goo right now.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: I love that that's so beautiful yes and just find other people that you can be gooey with.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah don't be gooey with some other people because I mean it's it's connection we're humans that's that's what we need that's what we thrive in.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah well thank you so much Lacey where can people find you um you can find me uh on the internet at at awildhoney.com or at a wildhoney across my social media you can find my book The Rebirth Rituals on Amazon and um if you are a woman if you're a local if you're moving through changes I'm also working on a new project called Generations Collective we are launching a women's health clinic in the area and this is like there will be some of that identity stuff but it's mostly related to just like health care and like taking care of your body and the changes that you might physically mentally emotionally be going through so stay tuned for that and just find me online and you'll you'll find me and we can chat um it's I love it because I feel like from your last podcast a couple people found me and like I got a couple messages on LinkedIn and then on socials and I was like oh wow LinkedIn amazing like a business community but I'm like I love how it's becoming this like cross pollinated thing because of the book.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway you can find me online and we can have our own little yep yabby session and be good together.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love that thank you so much Lacey I always have so much fun having you on so I appreciate it.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: This was the best I I could talk about this all the time and feel really happy that you had me on again.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_00: What an honor well thank you and listeners you can follow us on Outside the therapy room pod make sure to catch Lacey's book and we will see you next week.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: Bye thank you for listening to Outside the therapy room this podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only if you reside in Ontario and are interested in working with one of our therapists please visit our website in the show notes.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you reside outside of Ontario a quick Google search or third year psychology today will help you find a therapist near you.