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ADHD and Life Changes: Finding Your Way with Jessica McCabe · ADHDtime On Air

• Daniella karidi: Hi everyone, welcome to ADHDtime on Air. Today we're gonna be talking with Jessica. Jessica, I don't even know how to start introducing you because you are like all over and amazing. You wrote this book, How to ADHD, and I'm listening to you listeners, and I'm not holding the book because I make too much noise with the book and you guys get mad at me. So Jessica wrote the How to ADHD book, but she is also a creator, a YouTuber, I don't know, an influencer, an amazing person. And she does so much. and one of the new things she's doing is writing a new book, but she's gonna tell us a little bit about it, give us a sneak peek. So hi Jessica. Jessica: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. Daniella karidi: Well, thank you for coming. so I like to start with telling people what brought you into this creative ADHD world, writing the book, doing the YouTube channel, like what brought you here? Jessica: So I failed at life really hard for a very long time and I started to burn out. I was in my like I think it was 30, 31, 32, I don't rem I don't even remember. I was in my early 30s and was looking around going, wait a second, like wasn't I supposed to be successful? Everybody had always told me I had so much potential and I would do so many amazing things. And I realized I was quickly becoming not somebody who had or how who had so much potential, but I was quickly becoming somebody who hadn't reached it. And I didn't really understand why, because it wasn't for lack of trying. I felt like I was putting in so much more effort than my peers and still falling further and farther behind. and I was putting in so much effort that I was actually burning out in the process of trying to be this person that I was supposed to be, that everybody thought I should be, because I was smart and I was capable and all of these things. But meanwhile, like I couldn't keep my house clean. I couldn't find my keys, I ruined my credit repeatedly, then fixed it, then ruined it again. I Like I started in, you know, I started relationships and failed at those relationships or like got distracted and moved on to a new relationship. I got married and I was divorced like four months later. So like I just it was not going well for me. And I thought about it for a second. I was like, maybe if I put all this effort I've been putting into trying to be successful into figuring out what is getting in my way, then maybe I'll actually get somewhere. And so that's what I did. I I and the only clue that I had is I'd been diagnosed with this thing called ADD, like twenty years before that and sometimes I took this like medication that helped me focus but that that was I was like maybe there's more to it than that and so I looked into it and it turns out there was a lot more to it than that. Daniella karidi: Definitely a lot more to it. Like a whole book and the whole life and everyone we meet at this podcast, they bring such a different perspective and a different point of view of and one of the things I love that you bring to the healthy ADHD is about like the brain and about how we work with our brain and this whole idea of like these toolkits that you put in at the end of every chapter. So it made me have like a million questions, ADHD for the win. But I'll start with the one is like how did you decide what to put in and what to let go? Because there's so many stuff. Jessica: In the book. I actually overwrote it. when they asked me to write the book, it was like sixty to seventy thousand words is what they wanted. I think I I turned in like a hundred and forty thousand words. It was so much because it was everything that I had learned over the last eight years at that point. and the reason why I put everything on YouTube was originally because I knew that I would lose notebooks, I would lose my head if it wasn't attached, according to my mom. I I lose phones, right? I did nowhere to put all of this information I was collecting to help me understand my own brain, I had nowhere to put it that I wasn't gonna lose, except for YouTube. I knew I wouldn't lose YouTube. So I decided to put everything on YouTube where I could actually find it again. And so when I had this chance to write a book where it was like, I can write a notebook, but then they'll publish it and I can, if I lose it, like I could just buy a new one. So I was like, let me put everything that I've learned over the last eight years in this one book, everything that I thought was important. That helped me understand how my brain worked, that I that I understood helped others understand how their brain worked. Like I wanted to put in every single tool. And that was my original goal. Like every tool that you could possibly use to help you focus. And it turns out, at some point, there is like a point of diminishing returns where I probably would have just overwhelmed people. So I had to cut pretty ruthlessly toward the end. And there were a lot of strategies I actually had to cut. and I did in traditional ADHD fashion. I was like, I'll just I'll save these and I'll I'll use them for other things and then I have no idea where they are now. so I I Daniella karidi: There we go. Jessica: I did a lot of work that like did not get used. But I did I do think it made the book stronger to narrow it down to just the top strategies or the top things that I think are really helpful for people. Daniella karidi: I do find that challenge of like creating stuff and then losing it like a big deal. I feel like we have a million and a half ideas in a single moment and then finding them and executing them is a major challenge. So I can definitely Jessica: Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi: relate to that one. talking about rel Jessica: Yeah, the good the good news is, and pr probably your listeners will agree with this, what's really nice is it's not really that big a deal because we'll just have more. Like we will just have more idea it's not like we're gonna like, man, I can't think of a single thing. I wish I'd kept those ideas. Like every time we every time I go to narrow down my ideas, I come up with more. So Daniella karidi: That is a hundred percent true. Yes, that is a good that is a good spin on it and is very true. when we think about like when I think about the part of the challenges of ADHD, there's just like so many and there's also so many solutions and you really narrowed it down to a few. what are the ones that you feel like you're using at the moment the most? And I know I'm saying at the moment because we change our strategies as we need in different points of our life, what are the ones that are winners for you now? Jessica: Yeah, there's there's some that are that are applicable to me right now in this season, and then there's some that are like tried and true that I keep coming back to. So like one of the things that I always, always, always come back to is body doubling. which if if people don't know what that is, it's basically being in the same room with somebody else while you work. They can be working on something that they're working on. They can be sitting and reading a book, but just having somebody else present, and I guess I do use that a lot right now, just naturally, having a kid. I've started doing a thing where like she's been sick. She's been sick on and off for like the past six weeks, and my kid's like two years old. So I've started if she needs like extra comfort, extra love, I'm like, okay, mom needs to clean and she's like, let's go clean, put me in the pack. And so, like, I'll actually put her in a pack and go clean with her in the pack. Is it objectively harder to clean with a two-year-old like strapped to my chest? Yes and no. Yes, from a physical perspective, but from a like, I have a built-in body double perspective, and she's just like hanging out with me while I clean. Been wonderful, actually. so body doubling I use all the time. both like, you know, just with my kid around, but also like with my partner with my partner in the room or at work, we actually have a virtual office where we have a a body double room where if people are working on stuff and they want to body double, they'll be in that room. And sometimes it's helpful even just knowing somebody could come in, even if there's nobody else in that room, just knowing somebody else could come in and see you working seems to be helpful. so yeah, today that's the top one. But another one that I'm doing, and I talked about this in the chapter on motivation, is not waiting for motivation. There are a lot of things that I do Daniella karidi: Mm. Jessica: not feel motivated to do right now. I am exhausted, I am overwhelmed, and I don't want to clean my house. but one of the things that I learned for that chapter specifically was that we don't actually need to wait until we are motivated to do the thing. Often it happens in reverse. We start doing the thing and then the motivation follows. And I didn't know that. I was like, I thought you had to be motivated enough to do a thing. But it turns out you can start doing a thing and then be motivated. And a simple example that I talk about in the book is like you pick up the remote and you're motivated to turn on the TV, right? Like you pick up your phone and you're suddenly motivated to check your Instagram. we do this all the time, but now we can kind of hack it and do it intentionally. So I've started doing a thing where I put my kid to bed at night and I'm like, I do not feel like cleaning at all. But I just start, I just start doing it and I'm like, progress. And then I keep doing it. And then I keep doing it. And so like slowly I'm chipping away at it in a way that I didn't when I was just waiting to feel like I had the time or energy or motivation to clean. Daniella karidi: Yeah, that's really cool. I sometimes when I need to write something's a hard email or a blog that I'm like struggling with, I would start with this is going to be the worst email in the world or the worst blog. The problem is if you forget to n to take that off, that sentence. I have once Jessica: Yeah. Daniella karidi: sent an email with that sentence. I did get an immediate Jessica: Did you? Daniella karidi: response versus like, you know, so many other people that didn't respond. So maybe it wasn't so bad. Jessica: It's a good trick, actually. It's a really good trick. Daniella karidi: it's been a long time since you started this process. It's like, you know, more than eight years since you've been in this world. And the world has changed. When you started to be a creator, when you wrote this book, it was a lot smaller. There were a lot less people in that world. And I feel like there's a lot of information out there that's amazing. And there's a lot of information that what are the things that you wish people out there knew? What do you wish that that people will get correct? Jessica: What I actually wish is that people who are doing education about ADHD, if they're speaking about their personal experience, they are just clear, hey, this is me speaking about my personal experience. And if they are gonna broaden it out to this is what ADHD is, or this is how people with ADHD are, I wish that they would check with somebody who does have a degree in this, which is what I do. there are people who who are in the camp of like, well, I have a degree in this, and like if you don't have a degree in this, you shouldn't be talking about it. And frankly, that's how I felt when I first started. I was so scared because I was a College dropout. Like I had no business talking about this on the internet. I was terrified that somebody who actually knew what they were doing would talk to me about it. But the truth is, I still did a lot of due diligence. I still did like let me at first it was let me Google it and read up everything on the internet I can find about this. And okay, people seem to agree it's probably safe to talk about this. but later on it was like, okay, a researcher saw that I was trying to do science communication on the internet and like reached out and asked, Hey, do you want support? And I was like, Yes, because. I didn't even know where to find research papers at the time. It's it's a whole difficult world. And I want to validate that. Like if people are out there talking about ADHD, it is really hard. There, these papers are paywalled. It's hard to access them. It's hard to like read them, interpret them, and make sure that they are good studies. But there are a lot of people who are doing this work who don't have the time or energy to disseminate the information. So if you can connect with somebody who does want to disseminate the information and make sure that you're getting it right. because What I knew from the beginning was that that bad information was worse than no information. So yeah, I guess I guess that's really the big thing. there's probably things about ADHD that I want people to know, but the big thing that I want to want people to know, because at this point, like so many of us are out there talking about our experience, and that's great. Talk about your experience, let people know it's your experience, and if you're gonna broaden it out to other people with ADHD. Check, check with legitimate sources, whether that's a psychologist friend or a researcher or or just like CHADD check out the CHADD website. Like look at sources that are reputable and make sure that what you're talking about is accurate before putting out that information. Daniella karidi: I love that as someone in the CHADD education committee. Thank you for the shout out. Jessica: Hm. Daniella karidi: but I I find that challenging a lot. I find and for me the biggest challenge is when people are trying to give me miracle solutions. When people think Jessica: Mm. Daniella karidi: that that you know you do this one thing and you'll solve like if ADHD was that simple and we could buy that one planner, it will solve all our life, or that one thing, I feel that that it would be great. I I I struggle with that, with people that really think that they can cure or solve everything with a planner, with one specific planner. Jessica: Right. And I get it. Like I've fallen into the trap. I don't talk I don't talk like that publicly, but there have been times where I'm like, man, I wish everybody knew about this one thing. It's like it's the best hack ever and it saved my life and it changed everything. It will help everyone with ADHD. And it's like, no, it doesn't even help me next week. Like it helped me for this one period of time. And then it and then it wasn't enough, right? Like there is no magical. somebody on my team said this. there is no magical unicorn tool that will solve all your ADHD woes. There's not. Daniella karidi: No. Jessica: And spoiler, after studying this for eight years and putting all of this these tools together in this giant massive toolbox and all of the understanding, you're still gonna struggle. I still struggle. You're still gonna need help. You're still gonna run into things. The difference I think is you do get to the point at some point where you know what to do. You recognize what obstacle you're running into. You've got tools that you can use to help and you know where the pitfalls are for you that you there are worth it and you can deal with it. And there, you where the pitfalls are that you're like, that's not nope. I shouldn't, that's a bad idea for me. My brain is not gonna, nope. and I think I think that knowledge is really empowering because it used to be when I first started, I there was no ADHD TikTok. There was no TikTok, right? Like this information was not out there, it was not accessible to me. I had been diagnosed for 20 years. Not a single doctor told me anything about executive dysfunction, even. So, like, I it used to be that this information just like wasn't out there at all. And I had no idea. I felt like I was flying blind. I had no idea why I was struggling. I thought I was self sabotaging. I had like I I accepted this the the the reasons that other people handed to me. Like I must be lazy or I must be stupid or I'm self sabotaging or I just don't care about this enough. Like I had all of these like I had all this misinformation in my own brain about like why I was struggling. Daniella karidi: Yeah. Jessica: and just knowing what it actually is. Like, I'm not stupid. I have impaired working memory. And that makes it so that I need to write things down and get things out of my head quickly because I can't hold that much in my head while I work with it or whatever it is. So I think that just having that insight, having that information to me is just as just as much, if not more important than the tools. Because you don't even know what tools you need if you don't understand what it is that you're actually struggling with. Daniella karidi: True, true. I think people sometimes think about ADHD in a way that is very black and white. Like when you and and sometimes we think that when you get the diagnosis, that's it. Like you're you're that's like, okay, you have the diagnosis. But there's so much that has to happen after. and I feel that books like this and your channel and like sharing information, especially professionally tested and and explored information is really important. And it created a community, a community of brains. And so tell me a bit about the community behind you. Jessica: It's been really cool. I I started out making these videos for myself. I did make them public in case they were helpful for anybody else. And at first I was like, okay, maybe every once in a while, like somebody who also had a di an ADHD diagnosis for forever and doesn't really understand how their brain works, like will find it and it will be helpful for them. And it was, it was helpful for people, but it was also helpful for people who didn't even know they had ADHD because the algorithm, I guess, would serve them my videos and they'd be like, huh. huh. Maybe I have ADHD. Right. And so the community kind of built up like in a very Cool little grassroots way where people would be like, I see you're trying to do this. Do you need help with that? Like one time somebody was like, Hey, why don't you have a Discord? And I was like, What's a Discord? And so she's like, I'll help you. So we got off this live stream and we immediately went and built a Discord and we still have it to this day, like through Patreon. It's our like where people can donate to support the work that I do. We have a Discord and it's like thriving now. They have their own culture. I was hanging out and playing games with them last night. I don't get to hang out there very much anymore. But I was hanging out playing Don't Starve Together with a bunch of people and they had developed this entire culture. Like somebody had to log off real quick and and a couple of people go, Okay, but and they're like, Yeah, we did that to deal with the rejection sensitivity of like, no, did somebody leave because of something that I said? And so they they like created their own strategies and their own culture. And it's just it's so neat, but it's it's a very carefully cultivated community, I would say, because at the beginning, somebody told me some really great advice. And if anybody's out there doing influencer anything, like if you're out there talking about ADC on the internet, this was the best advice that I got. Don't feed the trolls. Just don't engage. Don't engage with comments where people are like just there to be hateful because your attention is like a spotlight and people want your attention, right? And so they see what you shine a spotlight on and you will get more of whatever you shine the spotlight on. So I just ignored Trolls. If somebody was like actively bullying myself or somebody else in the community, I would block it, right? If they were disagreeing and adding to the conversation, I would let it through. But I was very, very careful and diligent at at the beginning of responding to the comments that were adding to the conversation, treating my platform like it was a classroom and like if I wouldn't allow it in a classroom, it doesn't belong here. And over time, people just kind of would show up and like get a vibe for what the community is and they would carry that on. Like they would, they would become part of that community and they would I don't know, like it was almost like they understood the classroom rules, I guess. And so we have the most like positive community. one of the most positive communities on the internet, and not like in a p toxic positivity way, but in a way that people are very respectful of each other. They're very like, I don't know, happy to share their own story, happy to help out somebody else in the community. And it's I'm very proud of it. I'm really proud of my community. Daniella karidi: Yeah, that sounds amazing. as someone that had a a lot of hate for for reasons that are under not under control, I can totally relate and I think that's a great advice to avoid the the trolls. It's hard sometimes. Your rejection sensitivity Jessica: It's hard. Daniella karidi: comes up. Jessica: It's hard. And I should I should clarify, like, it's not just a avoid it. It's just don't fight it one on one. If you have a platform, then you can you can counter bad information in a way that is actually gonna reach more people than responding to a single comment. So like one example is there was somebody out years ago that like put out a really terrible video about how like I don't know, she was talking about moth mothers who drug their children and it was just like really terrible and hateful and so But instead of going and arguing with her, I just put out a video and I didn't mention her at all because I didn't want to give her more attention, right? I just, I just made a video called To My Mother Who Drugged Me. And it was a thank you letter. It was a thank you for like doing what you could to help me with my diagnosis at a time when that was really the only tool available. And like how that was helpful, like getting that diagnosis was helpful. And that's what I did to counter that. bad information. And a lot of people, a lot of moms especially, reached out to me afterward and were like, thank you. Because like they they were seeing all of this judgmental stuff about how they were drugging their children and doing something wrong for treating their medical condition. And to see the flip side of that was really helpful for them. And they wouldn't have seen one single comment that I made to this horrible woman. Right. Like, but they did see Daniella karidi: Right. Jessica: this video that I put out. Daniella karidi: Yes, love the video. I'll put a link to in the in the show notes. I share it with the with the parents a lot, especially the ones that are debating about medication. I do like the idea that it's a tool, one of a basket of our toolkits. the Jessica: Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi: second tool that I recommend to everyone is exercise. I Jessica: Yeah. Daniella karidi: I think that if I could prescribe something, if I if I was a prescribing doctor, I'm not a prescribing doctor, but if I would wa I would put exercise as the Especially now with all the research we have about memory and aging and how it fights some of our aging. So exercise is high up there. So Jessica: Exercise and sleep. I have a whole chapter in my book on sleep. And Dr. Patrick Lecount is our chief science officer. He's the researcher that I've worked with for a very long time and also provided research for the book. He did an entire study about ADHD and exercise and how helpful, how beneficial it is. And even he was like, But if you have to choose between exercise and sleep, sleep. Like sleep makes everything worse. Sleep makes your ADHD so much worse if you don't get it. So I definitely experienced that as a new mom when I was suddenly like. Daniella karidi: and bad news your experience you will experience it in pre-menopause again. Yay. Something to look forward to. Yeah. S because Jessica: god. Wait, sleep goes away then too? No, why? Daniella karidi: of the hot sweats and because of the regulation system and because of everything, because your all systems are wacko. The hormones affect our sleep. Jessica: Fun. Daniella karidi: Yes. Aren't you excited? Something to look forward to. yes, Jessica: I'll just exercise more, it'll be fine. Daniella karidi: yes. And hopefully, look, we're developing so much the fact that I can even talk about that, that premenopause has an effect is something that we couldn't do a few years ago. The Jessica: Yeah. Daniella karidi: fact that there's some research going, not enough, but there's some research going on about potential pre-menopause negative effects on ADHD is amazing. It's it's w life is changing and we need to keep on pushing for that. Jessica: Yeah, we actually have a a video coming out sometime the next couple of weeks on ADHD and hormones that was reviewed by Dr. Jolene Brighton, who has Daniella karidi: Hmm, Jessica: her book coming out on ADHD and women. I'm really excited by this this new research. I just I and so I knew about all the hot sweats and like I just hadn't quite put that together that like that would also impact sleep. But of course, that makes sense. Daniella karidi: I know. And this is another example of of how our ADHD works. We might have all this knowledge, but we don't always put it together on how it would affect us specifically until we're in there. And having the Jessica: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi: resources, like your book and your YouTube channel, and like other people, does help us to make those connections and remind us. And talking about remembering, I really related to chapter eight about the that you almost forgot to put a chapter about memory. Jessica: Yeah, if it weren't for Pina, it would have, it would have never happened. ADHD Alien and I were talking about our books and and she was like, Yeah, how are you tackling memory? And I was like, what? And she goes, Remembering stuff. I was like, my God, I completely forgot to do a chapter about remembering stuff. and everybody's like, save it for your next book. I was like, no, it has to be in here. It has to be in here. Like most of the ADHD experiences. I'm sorry I forgot. So Yeah, or like I got distracted and I'm so sorry I forgot. Like that's that's like most of my ADHD experience. So I had to put it in. Daniella karidi: And how do you how do you personally cope when that happens? When you forget? Because my my my saying is everything is forgettable. And forgetting is the default of our system. Those are my two everyday like, you know. So how do you personally cope when that happens? Jessica: When I forget? It depends. I mean, I used to curl up in a ball of shame and then overpromise and under deliver. I used to be like, I'm so sorry, I forgot to text you back. Anyway, can I throw your birthday party for you? And then I wouldn't. And then it I had more to apologize for, right? Like, I early in my YouTube career I came across a really great comic that was that said, Don't don't say sorry when what you mean is thank you. And it was a really neat thing. And it was the first time I'd been exposed to it. When you say sorry, it implies that you did something wrong, that you did something intentional, that you that you did something that could be prevented or avoided in the future. When if you realize that ADHD is a medical condition, like this is a a condition, right? It's not like I like. Like you will forget again, right? And so, like, thank you so much for understanding. Thank you so much. You if somebody emails me like, hey, haven't heard back, thank you so much for following up. and then and then I move forward. I try to say thank you as much as I can instead of saying I'm sorry, because what happens is after a while, if you keep saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, for the same thing, then people are like, you don't really mean it, right? And then they like just get mad. Whereas if you're like, thank you so much, this is a struggle. Like, and not just that, right? It's not just, hey, this is a struggle, but also sometimes this is what I'm doing about it, right? Like, thank you so much for understanding. I'm trying out a new system. I'm hoping that this one works, but like, thank you for bearing with me while I try to do X, Y, and Z. But the other thing that I do is I try to not. Commit to as much as I used to because I know I'm gonna forget stuff. I know I'm gonna drop the ball. If I am so busy that I can't get stuff on my calendar, that I can't write stuff down, that I can't like externalize and get stuff out of my brain so that I don't have to remember it, that's a sign usually that I'm doing too much. And so like I'll often cut back. And then the things that I do do, I try to like keep consistent. so like, okay, every Saturday morning now we do like a little family adventure so that I don't forget, right? It's it's Saturday, that means family adventure. I don't know what we're doing this Saturday yet, but like we'll talk about it and we'll do it. So it's like kind of automated, a little bit like auto pay, or like, I don't know, every Monday night. I don't have to remember to spend like one on one dedicated time with my kid because every Monday night we have a mommy and daughter like outing where we go and we do music class and then we go out to dinner and and that's it's like on automate on autopilot almost where I don't have to remember to do the thing because it's already built in and it's routine, it's ritual. Daniella karidi: it i those are all great strategies i think that the the language shift and the mental shift about you know this is going to happen and i need to thank the people that are considering that are understanding is a great is a great mental shift and i i really like that i also find that what you're talking about not relying on your working memory externalizing everything And if there's not enough room in the calendar to put it, then there's too much. Like I I have clients Jessica: He Daniella karidi: that sometimes tell me like, Yeah, but I have no enough room in the calendar like to put it. Like that that's a good sign that there's too much on your day and you're not gonna be able to get it all done. Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. You're either you're either trying to do too much or you're trying to hold too much in your head or both. Like I find that those those are basically the things. Like try to get stuff out of your head into a calendar. my partner and I have a rule that I learned from the ADHD community a long time ago, which is if it's not in the calendar, it doesn't exist. But even then, we're not gonna like assume that we check the calendar. So if there's something out of the ordinary, we'll also be like, Hey, just so you know, like this is happening, and they're like, it is and it's like, Yep, it's in the calendar. We're not even gonna assume they're gonna remember to check the calendar. We try, we try and remind each other too. So yeah. Daniella karidi: the strategy like that's new to me. Like it could have been information you shared with me before. Like you could have told me and I totally forgot. And then we don't start with I told you but I didn't tell you. I told you I didn't like like this is new to me now. Like maybe you told me Jessica: Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi: before but I I'm like this is new to me. Jessica: that happens all the time with my partner and I. He's he's like, Yeah, you probably did tell me. I was not listening at the time. I'm like, Yep. But we both do it. So it's a little bit easier. Daniella karidi: Right, right, right. So I I do like that understanding that there's a relationship changes us and becoming a parent changes us. What is the biggest lesson or the few biggest lessons you could share with others about the way your ADHD shifted or the way you see your now that you're a parent? Jessica: gosh. I mean, the biggest lesson is like now gonna be an entire book, which is that navigating big transitions, the way that people with ADHD navigate transitions, definitely myself included, does not set us up well for future transitions. because I'm realizing, and this is like giving away the ending of my book, my second book, but what I realized is that it's not just the transition into motherhood that hit me so hard. there were many things about it that did, right? I got I ended up with postpartum depression. I was I ended up having to go to a partial hospitalization program for it. it triggered my partner's PSD P PTSD for like how I was reacting. But there were also a lot of other issues that that came into play. And it was because of how We had navigated past transitions. Part of why it was so hard at first was the house was so cluttered because we hadn't like actually completed the transition of him moving in with all his stuff and like us unpacking and organizing it. There was still a lot that was really messy. And so then adding a kid and all like adding a baby and all her stuff at a time where I also was diminished in capacity because I wasn't sleeping, I was taking care of a baby, and I like I could I couldn't literally sit up because I had had a C-section. Like dealing with all of that on top of all of the clutter was so hard. and I realized like we when it comes to any transition, like we do what we have to do to survive a transition. And I definitely did that with the baby, right? I I ended up spending like a bunch of money on adorable baby clothes and like putting a pump on every floor. And like I'm pretty good at like surviving, right? And Danielle, you and I have talked about this for the next book, Daniella karidi: Yep. Jessica: about like find your flotation devices. And so like I Did I found my flotation devices? I was like, I'm going to a partial hospitalization program. I'm upping my meds. Like I fine, I'll take the antidepressants, like the postpartum specific antidepressants, like I'll I'll, you know, I'll buy all the adorable baby clothes. I'll do what I have to do to get through this transition. But now I'm like, no, now I have debt that I have to pay off because I spent too much on adorable baby clothes, right? And before that it was like, okay, I'll do what I have to do to get through the transition of like moving my partner in while also writing a book. And like that means neglecting the house so that I can like focus on my book. But then like the house was a disaster. So like future me, which was the me that now had a baby, is the one that had to deal with that. Right. And so like the big thing that I'm trying to do, like the big realization that I had is like it is so much harder on ADHD brains. Transitions are so, so hard on us. Transitions are hard for anybody, but they're especially hard on ADHD brains. And a lot of times we haven't dug ourselves out of the hole from the last transition by the time the next transition rolls around. And so we can kind of end up in this perpetual survival mode. And that's that's what it felt like. And I barely survived it. And I went, you know what? If I didn't have the privilege that I did, if I didn't have the money to like go buy the adorable baby clothes, if I didn't have a supportive partner that was like, yes, go to the partial hospitalization program, I will drive you. If I didn't have the insurance that that was needed, if I didn't have the doctor that recommended that program, like I don't know if I actually would have survived. And so I wanted to create a book about this wasn't the plan, like how to navigate big transitions with an ADHD brain, so that Future me has an easier time with transitions, but then the people that otherwise might not survive transitions or might survive, but like having decimated their savings or their credit score or their friendships or whatever, I want them to be coming out the other side. I want them to survive. And I want them to Daniella karidi: Yeah. Jessica: be there on the other side, not just in terms of survival, but also in terms of their identity, in terms of their resources, in terms of their future capacity for thriving. I don't even remember the question. I'm just very passionate about this. Daniella karidi: It's it's I look, I'm very passionate about the topic of life transitions. I support, I'm a coach for life transitions, this is what I support. And we had many conversations about this book, so I can't wait for it to come out. I think it's very important. I think we need to be discussing the challenges of life transitions with ADHD. I think that it's a topic that's been ignored, and I'm really happy that you're you're writing this book. I find that what the example you you brought up is kind of like we have all these scars from like things are going on and scabs, and then we just go pick on them instead of letting them heal. So Jessica: Mm. Daniella karidi: it's it's this idea that we can do things one-handed. you know, as a parent, you're holding the baby a lot, and then you try to do things one-handed. and then suddenly someone gives you a bottle of water and say, You should be drinking a lot of water. Like hold this and drink water, but you're already one-handed and you can't really walk around holding the baby and the bottle of water to take care Jessica: Yeah. Daniella karidi: of yourself. You just can't. Jessica: Yeah. No, that's a good way of putting it. And that that was the big thing that I wasn't prepared for is I thought because I had never taken care of a baby before, I thought that. What I would need help with. And so like I put the supports in place I thought that I would need, right? I was like, okay, my partner is going to be a very involved parent. And then I'll have my aunt come up and like she'll hold the baby as much as I want her to and like she'll handle that. And like I I made sure that the baby would be taken care of. Like I set up her nursery. It was the only organized thing in the entire house, but I set up the nursery. I had all the clothes washed, I had all the diapers, you know, organized and everything. And everything was about taking care of this baby. Turns out, like I Had a pretty easy time taking care of the baby. It was myself that was impossible, right? Like I I just, I don't know, ADC laser hyper focused on the baby and was like, I know how to care take. I've been doing it my whole life. I take care of other people all the time. I waited tables for 15 years. Like I know how to I if somebody's hungry and they need food, like on it, right? Like somebody needs something, I'm there. but I couldn't remember to take my own meds. I couldn't shower. I couldn't sit up. Like I couldn't, like I, I needed things that And nobody was there to take care of me. because all of the focus was on this tiny, tiny baby, right? And so that was the other thing is like I realized we kind of need a heads up as to where the pitfalls are gonna be and like what's what's actually gonna be hard during a transition. Because even if we do have time to plan and prepare, which we don't always, right? Sometimes we don't even know that a transition is gonna happen. but even if we do know that there's gonna be time to plan and prepare, we are not necessarily gonna plan or prepare in very effective ways if we don't know. where we're actually gonna struggle. So obviously working with like a coach is a great way to like get that heads up, but also just talking to other people who have been through it. and then I'm hoping to have an appendix at the end of my next book on specific transitions so that people can kind of have a heads up like, hey, here's where you might struggle, here's some tools you might need, here's some resources that might be applicable to you. Daniella karidi: Yeah. And I think that when we think about happy transitions, for instance, having a baby or getting married, having someone move in with you, going to college, those transitions that we really look forward to, we sometimes forget the pain points that are part of our ADHD challenges that are not common to everyone. So if you Google how to prepare to go into college, you might get like a lot of tips that are not necessarily relevant or as useful for an ADHD individual. Or if you think about the mom that's now in empty nester, I like to talk about those as successful launchers, by the way, but the moms that are empty nesters, they're prepared because like they think about what everyone else are talking about. But if you have a kid with ADHD that's living in the house, the challenges are very that transition is very, very different. And it's important to add the ADHD lens to our transitions. Jessica: Definitely. And that's one of the challenges, right? Because there's not a ton of literature out there on transitions across the lifespan plus ADHD. So I'm having to cobble together a lot of research. Thankfully there is like a decent amount on emerging adulthood. so we can kind of like understand a lot from that. But my goal, and it's like a s a stupidly ambitious goal. Like I'm actually slightly regretting my life choices right now because this book is like like I don't start with like what book can I write? I start with like what book would be amazing if it existed. And then I'm like, no, I have to write it. shoot. it would be amazing to have a book that is a toolbox that we can use not just during this one transition, but future transitions as well. Because then two things happen, right? One, I'm not having to relearn how to do transitions every single time I go through a different transition because every single one is so different. But two, now we can talk to people who are also going through transition and we have a shared toolbox and we have a shared language that we can speak about. Like, hey, like I you're struggling, I'm struggling, like how are you doing with externalizing everything? Right? Like right, or how you Right. And Daniella karidi: Right. What's your flotation device and what's your rocks that are pulling you down? Right. Jessica: having that language and being like, now I can talk to my friend who's going through a divorce somebody who's just like had a new baby and her baby's in daycare and like we have this shared language we have things that we can support each other with that are relevant. So I'm excited about that. But then I was like, well also though, I you know if people pick up the book, I don't want them to be like, well, I didn't just have a baby. Like this isn't relevant to me. Like I'm moving. So I want them to be able to flip to the appendix and be like, okay, if I'm moving, like what of this applies to me and have like great, here's the heads up, here's what to expect, here are some like specific tools and specific chapters that like maybe start there. But I don't know. It's like it's a really ambitious book. And I've been, I always Daniella karidi: Yes. Jessica: do this though. Like every I don't know if you do this. Every time I write anything, I'm like, I start out with an idea and I'm like super excited and like gung-ho, and I launch into it. And then at some point I'm in the messy middle where I'm like, what have I done? Why did I think this was a good idea? Like I should stop. Like, why did anybody let agree to let me do this? But what I've Daniella karidi: Yes, yeah. Jessica: realized is if you keep going, then eventually you get to a good place. Like for a lot of my life, I I would get to that like bad place of like, why did I do this? And I would just stop, right? And so like But now I'm like, but if you keep going, then eventually you get back to a place where you're like, okay, I feel good about this again. Daniella karidi: Right. And part of it I think is we're not so good at remembering our back successes because we're so ADHD and so in the moment. And and the way it comes back is that first thing we know that negative thoughts connect three times to our brains stronger than positive thoughts. So we're fighting a very strong connection in our brain. And then add to that the fact that we're just not so good at like keeping our trophies like visual. We're not so good at like remembering our successes. So it's so much easier to go back and like into the like the the terrible zone and let go. add to that the fear Jessica: I love that. Daniella karidi: of rejection and what if I write something and no one reads it? combine all that together, it it's very hard to keep on going. Jessica: 100%, because either you don't remember your successes or you're intimidated by them, right? Like I had a New York Times bestseller the first book and everybody seemed to like it and I was proud of it and I did a good job. And like, what if the next one is terrible and it proves that I like suck actually? Like if that voice in my head is right and like that's it's true. Like I can't do this. Like, why did I ever think that I could, right? It's there's always that like, man, right now, like people are thinking that I could do this and that I'm good at my job, but like what if it turns out that I'm really not? Daniella karidi: Yes. So so so that's that's a true feeling that I think a lot in my audience can relate to. that that scenario. I'd add that the fact that when we are going through the life transition, we're in the middle of it, it is so, so hard to kind of think about all the pieces. Like it's easier to look back and say, I should have prepared to become a parent and think about myself. It's really while you're in the middle, you see very hard to put the finger and say what's going on wrong. And having like a a some book about this or idea that I needed to stop and take a breath and see where the real pain points are. Where am I really pushing myself down versus letting the flow go? Jessica: Yeah. so I have thank you. I have an entire chapter in this book now about finding your flotation devices after talking to you. And it's it's just funny. Like I'm gonna start every chapter with like how I learned this the hard way, right? And so I'm gonna talk about how I had this conversation with you about about how like, yeah, when we when we're drowning, the first thing we do is we start adding weights. Like we start kicking ourselves and we start going, well, I should have done this and why didn't I do that? And and that shame, right? It weighs us down more when it's like, no, like. Forget about what you you could have done, should have done, whatever. Like what can you do now? I thought that was really smart. Daniella karidi: language shift is major. That language shift of what can we do now is major. Look Jessica: Yeah. And I use it all the time now. Like this morning. This morning, my partner is getting my kid out the door to daycare. It's the first time she's been able to go to daycare in like two weeks because she keeps getting sick and like horribly, horribly sick, like high fevers. Like I'm having to it's like newborn days over there right now. But she finally gets in the car and they go to daycare and I'm buckling her in and he's like, no. And like he's like clearly having a terrible time up front and I'm like, What happened? And he like turns out I had left hot chocolate in the car and like It was from our Saturday adventure and I was like, little baby's so nice. Like, we'll have cho hot chocolate. And somehow it like ended up dumping upside down. It was spilling. There's hot chocolate everywhere. And he's like miserable, right? As he's trying to get out the door. And I was just like, Of course, immediately I'm like, why didn't I take it in? Like I should but then I went, you know what? Do you need towels? Like, you want me to grab it? Give me a sec. I'm buckling yeah, Daniella karidi: Shift into action. Jessica: it was like my bu I'm buckling the kid into her car seat. Okay. Like I hit he's like trying to hand it to me. And instead of like piling on the shame and like, man, I shouldn't have done it or whatever. I'm just like, okay, well, I'm buckling her in right now. I can't take that right now. So I'm like buckling her in, saying goodbye. And he's just like over there like, having a really frustrated time, obviously, because like he's all dressed up for work, like ready to take the kid, and there's like hot chocolate everywhere and it smells terrible because it's from like three days ago. two days ago, time is thing. And so he comes around and like he hands me all the stuff and I was like, okay, do you Do you he was like, it's ranted. And I was like, okay, do you want me to throw it away? Like, I don't care that much about this cup. And he's like, no, it's just it's in the car. I was like, do you need a towel? Right. And I'm like, just knowing that going what I should have done and like how badly I messed up and like beating myself up and kicking myself, like that does nothing. That does absolutely no good. Now thinking about it the next time that I go to do an adventure, like, okay, cool. If I'm bringing hot chocolate, I how am I gonna remember to bring the hot chocolate back inside so that doesn't happen again? Sure, but in that moment, it did not do any of us any good for me to just sit and kick myself and feel terrible. So I just went, what can we do now? Daniella karidi: We do a a clear the car routine. it started when the kids would leave the backpacks in there or like a single shoe because my kids would take off their shoes in the car. and then we'd be looking for them like crazy. So Jessica: Yeah. Yeah. Daniella karidi: so we do these things. If my hands are empty when I'm leaving the car, I did something wrong. Like there has to be something I need to be taking out of the car. So we'd like literally go like this in front of the car and try to see like, wait, what am I supposed to take? Like if it's in Jessica: I love that. Daniella karidi: my phone or or my shoes or whatever. If my hands are empty Jessica: I love that. Daniella karidi: when I'm coming in from the car, I did something wrong. Jessica: I love that so much. I also like the idea that if my hands are full, like I'm doing something right, 'cause I usually am carrying a toddler, which is why things end up staying in the car, frankly. You're like, I'm carrying the toddler. What are you carrying, babe? Daniella karidi: Right. Yep. Yep. So yep, exactly, exactly. I think that before we end, because we're gonna like time is a thing, as you said, I ask every guest that comes on the podcast, now that they have all these insights of ADHD or knowledge about their expertise, what would they say to young self? Jessica: gosh, that's such a great question. If you're struggling, there's a reason you're struggling. Daniella karidi: What would you say to future self? Jessica: Right now, you're welcome. Cause right now I'm doing a lot of things for my future self because I'm like Daniella karidi: Because. Jessica: tired of living like this, man. I'm tired of living like I like treating my future self like she doesn't exist and just like stealing from future self in terms of sleep debt, in terms of credit card debt, in terms of like, no, I'll put this away later. I'm just like, nope, we're doing it now. If I can do it now, I'm doing it now. So right now, where I'm at is like, you're welcome, future self. I'm setting you up for success. Daniella karidi: I like that very, very much. thank you for coming on the podcast. can you tell people quickly where they can find you? Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. So you can Google How to ADHD or you can find us at HowtoADHD.com YouTube.com / HowtoADHD Patreon.com /HowtoADHD if you want to donate and support this second book. Cause I'm stepping away quite a bit from from the channel while I'm focusing on writing. So you can support the channel, support the books, support talks, support me going on podcasts by supporting us on the channel, on Patreon. Daniella karidi: Perfect. Well again, thank you so much. I can't wait to have you again when the book is out. And I look forward to reading it. Jessica: Thank you. and by the way, for your listeners, Daniella was the first person that I interviewed for this book. I had no idea where to even start, who to talk to. And it was such a strong interview that it ended up making a lot of a lot of it is gonna be in the book and made me feel confident I could do this. So I don't even think I had told you that, Daniella, but you that how well that interview went made me go, Okay, I can do this. There is something to be said and I can say it. So thank you. Daniella karidi: thank you. There is something new and you can say it and thank you so much. Jessica: All right. Daniella karidi: Thank you everyone. Jessica: Bye.