Latest / Real STRength with Sarah Draper / Learning to Trust Your Gut with Katie Ruffino | #21
Transcript
- speaker-0: Real healing happens when we stop fighting our bodies, start listening to them. Food was never the real problem. What is my body trying to tell me? speaker-1: So we can show up as even better leaders from a place of overflowing cup rather than an empty cup. speaker-0: I had to work up here. I had no idea that was affecting my gut, you know. Welcome to the Future Walk Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Draper. Each week on the podcast, I explore tools to help you lead your best now and into the future, and I talk with top leaders to see how they stay focused when life gets cluttered. It's time to stop reacting to your life and start leading it. Welcome to Future Walk. Welcome to the Future Walk Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Draper, and I'm so glad you're here. Today I'm joined by Katie Rufino. She's a board-certified physician associate who made this shift from conventional medicine into functional and regenerative medicine. And in that process, discovered that real healing happens when we stop fighting our bodies and start listening to them. She's the creator of the Trust Your Gut framework, and she helps high achieving leaders rebuild self trust through the body with nervous system regulation, nourishment, and a completely different way of thinking about food. She discovered that food was never the real problem. It was simply where deeper patterns around safety, stress, control, and self trust became visible. So instead of asking what food should I eat, Katie teaches leaders to ask, what is my body trying to tell me? I can't wait to learn more. So welcome Katie to the podcast and thanks for being here. speaker-1: Thank you, Sarah. Good to be here. speaker-0: I would love to just jump right into your story. How you ended up doing what you're doing. You've made that transition from conventional medicine. ⁓ what what led to that and what was that pathway you followed to get to where you are? speaker-1: Absolutely, yeah. And, you know, I've always known from a young age that I wanted to help people. I always knew that there was so much that I also wanted to learn about the physical body and how our organs worked and how illness happens and why it happens and how we can live a more, you know, fruitful life that you know we feel good and not just in our physical bodies, but also in our mind, you know, mental body and emotional state and things like that and everything that comes from that. And so I thought that the best way to do that was to go into the medical field. I ⁓ have a d ⁓ grandfather who was a DO ⁓ doctor and so he'd teach me about things about the body and so I wanted to go into the medical route and decided to go into the PA route because I I noticed that PAs tend to have more time with their patients to actually ask questions and yeah. And actually to get Down to some of that root cause, or at least give a patient a chance to share their story of what's going on rather than just seeing somebody as a number in a system and just prescribing a medication. So that's why I went that route. And then once I was through school, I started to, you know, think about how everything was working. And I started to learn actually from the conventional model. And I also, through learning about the conventional model, saw the gaps in and the the limitations that conventional Western medicine has with, you know, pushing a lot of medications or focusing on symptom management rather than root cause healing. And there was something about that that just didn't resonate with me. I felt like there was so much more that we should be asking, so many more questions we should be looking deeper into. And I was always the kid that asked why, ever since I was a kid, ⁓ I always wanted to know more. I'm like, well, the answer has to be There at some point. Maybe we just don't know what it is yet, but I want to be the one to discover it if we don't know yet. And so I kept asking questions throughout my medical school journey and I realized that food was a big thing that we don't focus on as much, or the Western medicine doesn't focus on as much. And so I also through my own health struggles ⁓ through autoimmune type symptoms, fatigue, brain fog, trouble focusing in school and high school, I started to realize how food was making a big impact on my health. And I then started to see how food could be medicine. And it also could be the thing that causes harm to us if we're not eating the right foods. And so nutrition became a big part of my life as well. And not just knowing what to eat or not, but also how do I make it fun? How If I have to eat healthy, might as well get creative with it so I can bring joy into the process too. and so through that I started to realize there's there's more to this. There's also gut health, there's the microbiome, there's toxins that we're exposed to. So I I kept going down this rabbit hole and then I found functional medicine and and then regenerative medicine, which for those of you who don't know that are listening, what that is, is it's more focused on supporting the body's ability to heal through things like stem cell therapy, peptides, PRP. ⁓ and helping to helping the body to regenerate itself through these modalities. And so went into the medical field practicing as a PA directly into the functional and regenerative space because I through everything that I had been learning and researching aside from my medical training, everything kept let leading me to that. And I I thought that maybe I'd want to start off in the conventional model, but then I realized I didn't want to have to unlearn things that I would learn Being in a clinic setting like that. So went the functional medicine way and did a lot of gut tests, metabolic tests, started to uncover those root causes. But even with all of the tools I had in functional medicine, you know, with all these supplements and things to support the body's ability to heal itself, I still felt like there was more that needed to be addressed, and there was more that I was meant to do to contribute to the medical field as a whole. And that's where I started to expand my knowledge base of not just on the physical body, but also on the mindset and understanding that our behaviors are actually driven by our beliefs and our perspective on ourselves and the patterns that we've been running and the stories we tell ourselves. And I also saw that there was a pattern of patients who would be stuck struggling with the same diseases for years. Even if they were doing the quote unquote right things, I would see some patients would get better and some wouldn't. And I just again asked the question why. And I noticed the pattern oftentimes was that the patients that wouldn't be improving are the ones that have mindset blocks around their their health, or they started to identify with being sick, and that was who they were. And so getting better meant shifting who they were. who they believed that they were and also the secondary gains that came from that, maybe attention or money or, you know, whatever came from that too. And so not to keep getting on a tangent, ⁓ there's a lot of ways I could answer this question, but but I just kept asking why and I ended up studying to be a NLP master practitioner to deeper understand those unconscious patterns and how to actually shift them at the root as well. So that way somebody has less interference to making changes in their life that are healthier and and I also learned about the emotional body and nervous system and and energy and all of those good things too and realize that it's a whole systemic ⁓ thing to address, not just the physical symptoms. speaker-0: ⁓ thank you for all that background. less interference. I I like that terminology, right? Sometimes we get in our own way. I know that's it's a much bigger, more more involved issue that than one thing, but I I like it maybe as a starting point. How how do we get in our own way? Like when you start working with someone, do you just in a presume, not in a not in a judging way, but just kind of presume that you're gonna you're gonna pull some layers of the onion out with them and and they're gonna start to uncover some things they might not realize were there that might be causing the interference or how does it work for you? speaker-1: Yeah. So well a anyone that I'm working with now, I've kind of shifted out of the clinical setting and have shifted into more of the coaching role and working with people remotely or online, ⁓ more focused on the things that are getting in the way rather than, you know, just looking at labs and treating symptoms. So when I do work with someone, I'm asking them these deeper questions to really uncover and get a better idea. You know, like any clinician, we we want to know the story, we wanna know what's going on. And so I find that through the question asking, I'm able to pick up on some of those stories or patterns or beliefs that someone might be experiencing or holding on to. And, you know, I like to describe how our mind works and and how we see life in the way of, you know, we're all wearing a different pair of glasses. We all have different lens that we look through in life. And w who what decides which lens we look through is depending on our experience in life, what we've what we've endured. And we've all experienced different significant emotional events. Maybe that's a breakup or losing a job or a loved one or parent getting divorced or getting, you know, physical injury or something. That creates an emotion at that time. And also a belief then can be created if one decides in that moment to make meaning of that experience. And so often what I see is that when someone experiences things in their life, those things that they experience start to shift their lens of reality. And then also that lens that they have of themselves. And so some people hold on to those baggage, it could be called baggage or or the scrapes in their lens. Some people hold on to that. Other people decide to just let it go. And so that's one way that we can limit ourselves is if we keep holding on to, you know, negative emotions or limited beliefs that are keeping us stuck. in our current situation or the way that we see the world. And if you're wearing a pair of glasses but the lens is all scratched up and foggy, you might see an opportunity in life, but not actually recognize it because the lens you're looking at life is distorted. And the way that one can also describe that is in a victim mentality or being at effect in life versus being at cause. Being at effect is why is everything happening to me? My life sucks, or my body's failing me, or I'm always going to be sick, versus being at cause is what is this trying to teach me? What am I doing to create this experience in my life? And so one is from a state of disempowerment, whereas the other is empowerment. And when you're empowered, you can actually do something with your life, you can actually make a change and be in control of the situation. Not what other people are doing or what's happening outside of you, but how you respond to it. So that's a very common way that I'm noticing that people are getting in their own ways is simply how they choose to see the situation in life that they're experiencing, especially when it comes to their health. speaker-0: Thank you. I imagine for many people they first see or experience a symptom, right? They come because of a health thing or a weight thing or of something else. And and it takes a little bit of education, it takes a little bit of willingness and vulnerability to even open up to some of those deeper discussions. speaker-1: Yeah, I think I think it can be scary to be honest with ourselves about what's going on. I find that i some people have said to me that it's wow, I didn't realize that I've I've shared so much with you more than I've shared with anybody else in my life. Like, what is it about? What did you just do? And I find that the more that I can show up in a way of just open accepting and without judgment, just wanting to give them space to feel safe to share, then it creates an environment in which someone feels like they're able to actually show up in a different way where they don't feel like they're being judged or put down, whereas other people in their life might ⁓ might do that. And so, yeah. Does that answer your question? speaker-0: But s certainly, absolutely. Cause it I mean your frameworks, the trust your gut framework, I would love to talk about the gut as a organ or a system of organs or a system of microorganisms, however however you think of it and how that connects with what we're talking about, mindset, beliefs and everything else. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. So when I say trust your gut, that yes means your physical gut, you know, listening to your gut, supporting gut health, you know, we have this beautiful microbiome that lives in our gut and also the gut brain connection that's that's p that's present and we're continuing to learn even more about that through research. ⁓ but also listening to your intuition. Listening to the voice in your head that's you, your higher self speaking to you, or your inner knowing that inner wisdom, or God speaking through you, however you you like to look at it, and actually trusting that knowing rather than constantly looking outside of yourself for external validation or answers from others, or feeling lost and always needing to outsource your wisdom or decisions or even your worth. And that's Where I used to do that for a long time in my life. And I noticed that I actually was getting gut symptoms. I was feeling bloated or I'd have IBS like symptoms, you know, changes in bowel movements or bloating or cramps in my gut and or my food not digesting properly, because we know that the GI tract is the mirror of the emotions. And when we don't allow ourselves to feel and actually process and digest what's happening in life. then that can show up as a physical manifestation of disease. And I find especially with women who are high performers, high achievers, you know, constantly striving to to do more or to prove themselves, they often have gut issues because they're not allowing themselves to slow down to actually feel and process and digest the world around them. So I created the Trust Your Gut framework to really help people actually pause and look inward and and trust themselves with leading their own life to then have a place live from a place of empowerment rather than being part of a system that is keeping us stuck or small. speaker-0: Yeah, thank you. I I'm I'm excited to learn more about the framework. I was just thinking back to my own life when I was a lot younger, a lot lot younger. I was cadet at West Point. Even it before that, you know, a say an overachieving high school student, right? I was I got into that place like like many do because I was an overachiever, right? And so that perfectionism and approving followed me for a very long time. All during those years. All during those years. And through that, through the army, I mean and on, I had stomach issues, right? And you've named a bunch of them. and I always looked at it very very ⁓ more medically, I guess. ⁓ and finally, once I started having kids, they had some issues. So I started learning a little bit about food intolerances. So I looked at it that way, but it was not until I started probably eight, nine years ago. having a dedicated mindfulness meditation practice that that stuff started to dissipate. And I notice now when I've got unaddressed stress in my life, it is the the first physical symptom I got is that. And I might have other things that I find in hindsight or retrospect, but the first physical thing I notice is that. speaker-1: Mm. Yeah. And so what have you noticed has helped you? You said mindfulness meditation, processing, or speaker-0: That was yeah, that was my first part. And I've got a whole toolkit of things I use in different, I mean that's what I do now too. So like I have a lot of different things that work for me. Kind of part of it is building capacity, part of it is in the movement. ⁓ but that that is the that experience of finally dedicating myself to learn that practice, which was a challenge. Is is the thing, like the first thing in a whole series of things that but that's where the change began for me. I had to work up here. I had no idea that was affecting my gut, you know. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And we know scientifically the gut brain connection is through the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve is one of the cranial nerves or cranial nerve ten and it helps to tell our body or our brain tells our body to, you know, simply in the parasympathetic nervous system way of rest and digest. So turning that on. So the more calming we can be through breath, through releasing emotion, f allowing ourselves to slow down, things like that. Vagal nerve stimulation helps to improve digestion. And you know, just taking a moment to slow down and listen to your body is one of the most valuable things we can do. And when we're constantly on the go or doing things or our focus and our attention is outward or serving others, helping others all the time, we often forget about ourselves. And that disconnection is what can create the questioning or the confusion of why is my body responding this way? It's like, ⁓ wait, have I taken the time to just allow myself to feel what it needs. speaker-0: Yeah, I absolutely doing it. That's great. my Vegas nerve simulation, Vegan Nerf simulation. I would love to like talk about that a bit because more and more people are talking about it. I'm seeing more and more as talking about therapists about it because you know how they have these devices you can you buy or whatever. And she said you can just kind of run your finger down or I'll do things like like I'll hum or you know, even swallowing, but like Doing this. What what tools do you use? And and how do those work? And so for people who are listening, I'm just like running a knuckle down the base of my jawline into my speaker-1: Yeah. You know, simple things like taking some deep breaths can help with the vagus nerve stimulation, neck stretches. So sure you can use your knuckle to massage the vagus nerve, which runs just around this main muscle called the sternocleidomastoid. So kind of massaging that area, relaxing the neck, you know, turning your head side to side, doing different stretches with your ears towards your shoulders, those are supportive. Also humming, like you mentioned, or singing. That gentle, you know, activation of the throat through through humming can also the vibration can stimulate that nerve as well. And it also is a way for you to express different energy or emotions that wants to come through. I I'm a singer, I've sung my whole life, and it's been one of those things I didn't realize was such a stress reliever until I s wasn't doing it every day. And I was like, ⁓ wow, it makes a difference. So yeah, those are just some simple tools. ⁓ obviously you can go and get a vagus nerve stimulator device as well, but you know, that can get expensive. And so for anyone who wants to do a free version of that, try some of those. speaker-0: Those things. I I would love to to ask two questions. One is just more of an observation. So in the future walk podcast, right? I do a lot of this walking and thinking forward. I found on a recent walk, I've caught myself kind of talking under my breath, like mumbling almost to myself because I just had all these thoughts going and I I d advocate to not take a device with you because I dip For a lot of reasons, but that breaks up the flow. And so I was just kind of thinking through things very quietly, just but I've I just felt better. And I wonder if even like that, not talking like projecting like I am right now per se, but just that low, like deep in the throat mumble. That be part of it? speaker-1: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And and I think that, you know, we'll unconsciously start to do things to regulate ourselves. The body is so intelligent, it's so wise and it knows how to heal itself. We just have to get out of its way and remove the interferences, like I was saying. And oftentimes when our body is trying to speak to us through symptoms, like gosh, my stu my stomach feels weird or I'm getting a headache or I'm so fatigued or I can't focus or mm my h high blood pressure, you know, things like that. It's do we listen when it's trying to tell us that we need to do things differently? And that's the question that I hope all the listeners here are listening to is they start to really take that into consideration and ask yourself, where have you been ignoring? Body and where has it been asking you to pay attention and allow it to help you and support you? It's your greatest tool is your own body. And so, you know, if even things like stretching in the morning, your body naturally might want to do that good morning stretch because what you're doing is you're allowing your fascia and your your muscles to relax and to stretch to allow energy to flow better through your body. Littlest things like that, or how we yawn. It's another way to stimulate the vagus nerve. speaker-0: That's great. I because this is the other thing I was thinking of when you were giving the example of the next stretches. I don't I don't know if there's maybe you know, like if someone's ever studied this, but as we age, right, I notice it in myself, like I used to be able to get my ear almost to my shoulder. Now I'm like, okay, that's as far as it goes. And looking I mean, I feel like I do a lot of yoga, I do a lot of things, but still age has an effect. And I wonder. Do people who age have more dramatic effects for some of this? And then on the inverse, like, do you have more dramatic growth and potential for healing? ⁓ does what does age impact the physiology impacting the vagus nerve? Do you know? speaker-1: ⁓ gosh, I mean, age affects everything in the body. The more we age, the more our body is, you know, sp it's spent more time on this earth doing different things and longevity is a huge topic nowadays. Everybody wants to anti age, whether that's through the skin or or even stem cell therapy is a way to, you know, anti age or turn back the clock because you're putting things in your body to help heal and support it and its natural process of restoration. ⁓ But I think that it comes down to not just how long you've been on this planet, but what your lifestyle is like. Some people live a more sedentary life where they're not stretching, they're not moving their body, or they're eating inflammatory foods to where that can create more tension. And also I've noticed that the the fascial system and the muscle muscular system responds great to stress. So the more stress that we hold on to and don't allow ourselves to process in a healthy way, the more tension builds up, especially in the neck and the shoulders, which is where that vagus nerve tends to run. I mean the vagus nerve goes f you know from the neck all the way down into the the organ systems as well, but but that's a big part that it can be stimulated in. And so when we think about where that location is in the body, or around our throat chakra and also holding tension in our shoulders. Are we holding the weight of the world on our shoulders? How much responsibility? How much pressure are we putting on ourselves to carry? And that can create a lot of tension as well. And so how do we delegate? How do we outsource? How do we ask for help? And how do we allow ourselves to not get lost or self-abandon in the process of helping serve others? And you know, most of the people listening to this are leaders, they're change makers, they're running teams, they're helping everybody else. And what I find is really common is in the process of serving others, it's easy to lose yourself in the process. And that's why it's even more important to do the things that we need to do to make sure that we are also prioritized. So we can show up as even better leaders from a place of overflowing cup rather than an empty cup. speaker-0: Yeah, I've seen I mean in the service industries I've come from, I I kind of have two visuals of perhaps a little bit of an archetype. ⁓ those who certainly put others first, but two like visuals. One is rucks in a ruck rocks in a rucksack, right? Continuing weighing that and you just like carrying that thing around. And and one thing I'll talk with people about is man, if You know, you're not the only one carrying that. At some point that gets full, and you start like unintentionally handing off those rocks to someone else. But like now it's become their burden. So that's the other one. And then the other is ⁓ residue. And and and this one's come from Dr. Preston Klein. This idea of residue just building up. That's the I've got this. That's the armor, that's the scales, that's ⁓ I'm good, I've got that hardening. speaker-1: Absolutely. Yeah, and with when you were describing about the rocks, I also see that as projection when we start to project our own fears or concerns or hardships on onto others. And how can we take responsibility for our own rocks and choose to set them into a riverbank or somewhere it's more helpful? And that's the same thing with like negative emotions or beliefs that aren't serving us or burdens that we we hold on to it will weigh us down and be harder to carry. And that's the premise of, you know, with NLP and the work that I do with my clients to help them release those things. We're essentially taking those rocks out by getting into the root cause of what are those things they've been holding on to and realizing that it can let them go of it. Yeah, yeah. speaker-0: Right. Let's talk LP Neurolinguistic Programming. I would love to have you explain that and and how you use it. speaker-1: Yeah, so I talked a little bit about it already, ⁓ with you know, talking about the lens and how we see the world, but NLP essentially is how we communicate and how we perceive and how our brain, you know, processes information. We know we have a conscious mind and an unconscious mind. The conscious mind is what we can think about in this now moment. It's that I can, you know, know that this water bottle says mountain and valley. I can read that and say, Okay, that's happening in my conscious mind. I'm aware in the moment. That that is what it is. Unconsciously, though, my brain might be signaling to me, I'm thirsty, drink the water. And so our unconscious mind is like if you look at the iceberg, that's you know, if you look at a ocean, you see a little iceberg, you know, they say the tip of the iceberg, and then there's so much deeper. It's like the conscious mind is the little tip of the iceberg, is the only thing we can see. The unconscious mind is everything that's deep underneath it. And so our unconscious mind is really what's running the show. And we ha we have this unconscious mind for a lot of evolutionary reasons. You know, our unconscious mind is telling our vagus nerve to tell our heart to beat or our lungs to expand and contract. So we don't have to consciously be thinking about that. Otherwise, we'd drive ourselves crazy, needing to constantly tell our body to to work itself. So there's a lot of positive. reasons for why we have an unconscious mind. ⁓ and also so that way, you know, if you're ever driving unconsciously, you know how to drive because you've done it so many times. But sometimes consciously we have to swerve a little bit if somebody cuts in front of us or something. So that's some examples of how it works. So on a more linguistic side of language patterns, unconsciously we've created beliefs from childhood or from events that have happened or from parents or our authority figures that have passed down you know these patterns to us or showing us how the world works. We typically will develop those those core beliefs up from the age of zero to seven. And once that we reach that age, we we have a good idea of the world. Sure we're constantly learning, but the idea of what we believe about ourselves tends to be developed in that time period. And so we go through life that these beliefs were created to protect us. They were there to keep us safe and keep us alive and protected. But then as we age and we get older or become an adult, we start to realize that some of those beliefs that we've carried or those patterns that we've been running aren't serving us anymore. They're actually causing harm now because we've learned and there's other things, other ways of li living that we can adapt to in new ways. Or we realize that there's more that's possible for us outside of our little bubble of what we think the world is or reality is. And so what NLP does is we basically use tools to go deep into the unconscious mind and bring up the baggage and release those limited beliefs or egg to start to express or release the emotions that have been attached also that someone might not have felt safe or comfortable processing or feeling at the time or didn't know how to. And so we release those things to basically take the rocks out of the bag so you feel lighter, you feel freer, or take the glasses off or s or you know, use a a rag and wipe them clean so you can start to see life differently. And what I also have noticed is that when tying us into physical health, is that when someone is struggling with their physical health, there is often if they've done all the right things physical, like I'm eating good food, I'm exercising. Taking supplements, whatever they need to do for that, getting good sleep, if they're still not getting better, then it's something that's not congruent or not healed or something stuck in the emotional, mental, or energetic bodies. And so that's where NLP can come in and relieve someone of those deeper things to actually free them up physically. And so for example. ⁓ there is something called New Germanic medicine that I've studied and it's this Dr. Hammer, he's done over forty thousand studies, trying to pinpoint what are the psychosomatic expressions of disease, so the mind-body connection. And for example, somebody with left breast cancer might actually have empty nest syndrome, meaning that if they release the emotional mental connection around empty nest syndrome, their breast cancer goes away. For example. ⁓ sure there's other things like parasite cleanses and to environmental toxins and things that start to you know, we that need to be addressed as well when it specifically comes to tumors. ⁓ get in that's a whole other conversation. but it's to just just to, you know, shed light on the fact that our physical bodies carry a lot of express a lot of what's going on in our mind and and the expression or not of emotions. And also energetic alignment. And so the big piece of what I do with my clients is to help to clear the noise, clear the things that are not them or that they've picked up over the years that are causing some disorganization or chaos in their life to actually free them and be more aligned with who they are. And yeah, and that's part of the trust you get is how do I clear what's not me? and listen to what is and express that. And then you realize that your life then starts to shift when you are living in alignment with who you are and who you're supposed to be. speaker-0: Yeah, that's great. I mean there's there's a lot lot there. I I was reflecting a little bit about the kind of the beliefs that are kind of formed during that first zero to seven years. ⁓ it's maybe it seems to me that perhaps That's why things get passed along generation to generation. If a parent hasn't resolved those same issues, those are patterns they repeat when they raise their own kids and on and on. Maybe I don't know. I'm just thinking of my own my own self and my own life. Like I am conscious or I've tried to be conscious. My kids are you know, older, they're like early, early twenties, late teens, but like we're not early twenties, sorry, all late teen late teens. ⁓ I can't forgot how old my kids are. That's okay. ⁓ but the like I've tried to be conscious, but I still do fall back into those some of those traps. And I hear my mom's voice. And I'm like, ⁓ wait, like that's kind of pretty not necessarily, but at times. So anyhow I'm thinking through this and that repetition and those beliefs. Like Wow, maybe like parenting classes, but you know, before you have kids, ⁓ how fantastic. We this whole field is evolving so much so quickly. But how how amazing would it be to have resolved some of those issues before I had kids and started to hear that echo in my brain. ⁓ so it never just came up in the first place. speaker-1: Yeah. And that that's a a great way to look at it too. And you know, I'm almost twenty eight years old and don't have kids yet, but that is something that I've worked so hard on myself to relieve a lot of the generational patterns that have been passed through my family and also in society. ⁓ I'm a big advocate for empowerment and being the leader of your own life and to not pass down the the societal structures of keeping us small and part of a system. And I there's a whole discussion, conversation I could have about that. But just to just to also note too that I had spent a lot of my time thinking that I needed to fix myself. I needed to fix my family. I'm like, ⁓ gosh, what it what's wrong? And focusing on like almost doing a like a problem inventory. Like, ⁓ okay, my body is expressing this symptom. What tool do I have to fix it? Or ⁓ I have this pattern that I'm running. What do I need to do to fix it? And I realized that that was just another way I was expressing the whole perfectionism, people pleasing, proving my worth. Like if I if I do this, then I'll be good enough. If I fix these things, then I'll be worthy. Whatever it is. And so what's really helped me and what I like to share as well is you can do all the things like be mindful to see where you're you're able to release these old beliefs or patterns or allow yourself to feel, but not in not from the context of shaming yourself through it or through guilt. Right. But from a lens of self-love or I want to show up even better. But not to also deny that we are already made in divine perfection. Us just being born is enough. But everything that comes after that is bonus. And so remembering through the process of just learning and evolving and growing is that I am already whole, I am already perfect in the image of God. We are created in the image of God. So therefore we are already inherently worthy. And not to dismiss or ignore all the things that we could improve on, but not from a place of shame, but from a place of I love myself and I love the people around me. I want to continue to be the best I can be. And that a alone is a big shift that even people in the wellness culture that are on this self help, self growth journey, it can be a slippery slope 'cause when do you get to the point where you start suddenly start to feel like it's enough? Or is it a never ending process? So so just wanted to touch on that too. speaker-0: I thank you. No, I'm I'm laughing at myself because now I've tried a lot of different things, tools, because ⁓ of what I do and helping others. I wanna have experience things so that I can share them with other people. ⁓ so tools are great. I'm laughing at myself and all my various supplements. I had to scale back because I'm like, ⁓ I heard that because you hit a certain age and you're just like, ⁓ my gosh, wow, that's and so all of a sudden I mean that's just probably a good example of like I'll try that, I'll try that, I'll try that, and that and I'm like, ⁓ my. enough. Right. So I've I've I've skilled way back because yeah there's a grace that comes to you doing with grace I guess. So ⁓ but still while trying to be your best like for the people around you. And to me that sounds a lot like you're a personalis. I I know you're yeah, can you like how that that can you explain that concept for for everyone what what that is and how you apply it in your life. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. So for those who've never heard of that phrase before, it's it's a I think it's a Jesuit phrase, right? It's it's just in the Jesuit culture. So I went to Marquette University, which is a Jesuit university, then undergrad and grad school there, and something that they they taught us as a core belief, core value of the university and teachings is cura personalis, which basically means caring for the whole person. And so it's not just I I How I relate that to my life and through the work that I do is in the medical field, you know, it's not just the physical body, it's also the mental body, emotional, spiritual. ⁓ and so also when you're connecting with somebody, realize that they're a whole person too. They have a life, they have a story, they have their own struggles, they have their own gifts and and just connecting from a equal level and caring for for all of them and yeah. how I see it. speaker-0: That self-awareness and then that others awareness that extends from that. But it's it is it's not two-sided, but it's two parted. It it goes it goes with directions, right? speaker-1: Yeah. And helping someone else helps yourself and helping yourself helps others. So it's a beautiful symbiotic relationship. speaker-0: Yes, absolutely. ⁓ my goodness. Yes. So so so much goodness here. would you be willing to share a little bit about your trust the gut framework or or how people can find that? speaker-1: Yeah. So the Trust Your Gut Decision Framework specifically is a four-step method that I've developed to help anybody make any decision in their life that they're maybe struggling with. And I suggest practicing it, you know, like any skill that we want to learn takes time and you know practice it. So start start small too. Maybe don't practice this with, ⁓ am I gonna move cross country or not? Am I gonna quit my job or not? Or, you know, something more dramatic, but something small like what do I want to eat today? Or do I want to go to the library or Target or the coffee shop or you know, something small, low stakes, decision making. Yeah. So that way you can develop this skill and and build self-trust is the the premise of this. It's to listen to yourself rather than to others. So the four-step process is this. So step one is to, you know, close your eyes, take a few deep breaths, and calibrate. What is a yes Feel like versus what does a no feel like in your body? So it's a way also for you to practice tapping into and listening to yourself. So I always suggest, you know, putting a hand on your heart, hand on your belly, taking a deep breath, and starting with, okay, what does a yes feel like? And you feel into your body, does that yes feel expansive? Do I feel like you know more open? Do I feel my shoulders relaxing or my body softening? Maybe I feel a little more peaceful. You know, that yes could feel differently for everybody. So just calibrating that. Okay, got it. Once I know what that yes feels like now feeling into my body again, what does a no feel like? And so just starting to feel into that. And what what's different? Is my breathing change? Do my shoulders tense up a little bit more? Do I feel a pit in my stomach? You know, do I feel a constrictive? Those are some examples of what it might feel like. Again, whatever you experience is perfect for you. So that's step one is to calibrate. And that might change in the moment. So I always start with calibration because we're constantly living, you know, a life. So we want to come back to the self, calibrate. Step two is ask the right question. speaker-0: Yeah. Can I can I ask a question about seven? Is it specific to that question? Like I was just practicing this now and like, well, yes or no about what? Like is it specific in that moment to that question that you calibrate? speaker-1: It's your yes and no. What does the yes feel like for you? What does it feel like right in this moment? Yeah. What does that feel like for right now? And then step two is to ask the right questions. So when you're deciding between two different things, not should I do this or should I do that, because your higher self, your unconscious mind, always wants to fulfill your desires. So if you want to go eat that piece of pizza, but it might be more speaker-0: Yes in this moment. Okay, great. speaker-1: beneficial for you to eat a salad, for example. ⁓ y we're keeping this very generic here. ⁓ ask the question of what is in my highest self's best interest? So what would that best ideal version of me? What would they choose? And so you can ask the question of is it in my highest self's best interest to choose option A? Or is it in my highest self's best interest to choose option B? And so for example, ⁓ You know, if we're doing the pizza or salad ⁓ example question, then step two would ask the right question and feel into it. So when you ask, is it in my higher self's best interest to choose the pizza? tap back into your body. Did it feel more like the yes or did it feel more like the no in your physiology? And so pay attention to what comes up with each option. So is it in my highest self's best interest to choose the pizza? Feel into that. Is it a yes or a no? And then is it in my higher self-specific interest to choose the salad? Yes or no. Whichever one it feels more like, just note it. There's no judgment, it's just curiosity. Step three is choose the one that felt more like the yes. So choose the one that was more closely feeling in your body like the yes. And again, this is the part that sometimes is the hardest, is choosing it and letting it go. And step four is just get the feedback. What happened? How did you feel? Was it beneficial? Did you not like the decision? What was the outcome? And trusting that you'd be okay no matter what you do choose. But it's that you're choosing, you're listening to yourself and what you're what you need, what's best for you in this now moment, choosing it and trusting that you'll be okay no matter what comes next. And that's a simple practice that you can do consistently on a daily basis. So that way you're starting to build self-trust as a skill rather than something that's just, ⁓ just trust yourself or trust your gut or follow your intuition. That can feel very ambiguous and confusing, but this is a practical tool that anyone can use right now to start practicing. speaker-0: Great. Thank you. So that feedback part, like the reflection that comes with that is key to learning. That piece is key to resilience. It's key to your growth. It's key to tuning in and becoming more maybe aware, sensitive if if sensitivity to your intuition is a goal. ⁓ I'm hypersensitive. So sometimes I have to step back from that a little. That's just me. ⁓ but that's why I'm working on this. ⁓ but like that feedback piece is is so key to it. I love this. Now, how does inertia play in? Like an object emotional stay in motion, an object at rest will stay at rest. Like I had to learn my yes was always do more. I was always about more, more, more, more exercise, more work, more whatever, whatever, whatever. Like so I had to learn that a better yes would be like to how to pause and take a pause. And that's like a big part of my thing now. And you know, it goes back to what I shared earlier. How how does inertia play into that? speaker-1: Yeah. So what comes to mind is like you said, an object in motion stays in motion. If your pattern has been to constantly do more, do more, do more, you're in that process. You're you're already playing out that pattern. So a best way to change that up if it's not serving you anymore is pattern interrupt. And this is a tr ⁓ something we talk about in NLP is pattern interrupt. If someone's playing out a pattern that's not serving them, you insert a pattern interrupt. So that could be, you know, like If you're if you notice that every morning you start your day on your phone and drinking coffee and constantly doing something, a pattern interrupt could be move your phone a different place or choose to do or insert something instead that's different that starts to confuse the pattern a little bit to start a kind of get you out of that autopilot mode. And then you can start to develop a different pattern. ⁓ does that answer your question? speaker-0: Yeah, thank you. I mean can people expect some feelings of resistance even if it's a sure party yes from your ideal self? Yeah just as they your your brain learns that new pattern? speaker-1: Absolutely change is it can be hard because it's different. It can feel uncomfortable and unfamiliar. And oftentimes we will want to we have a default state to want to go into what's comfortable, what's familiar, what's safe, feels per the perception of safety. So it can be hard to make change and that's what I've found with clients is if they if they're not ready to change, they don't have to. But then I I'm not gonna be able to help them. But if somebody is ready, like actually ready to make a change, whether that's they are feeling so unsatisfied with their current state of their life, or they deeply desire something different. And if they are ready, I'm ready to change, then that is somebody that I can work with. Because once somebody's actually ready to change, the change can happen in an instant. It's just the decision to change that makes all the difference. And so it depends on the person. Yeah. speaker-0: Mm. That readiness to change is is definitely key. Someone could be ready to change in some other area too. But like that readiness to change. I would think that, at least from again, looking at through my own lens, my own glasses, that is something that can be developed. Well, working with clients as well. Like it can be people evolve over time. And and your question about or your steps, sorry, is very helpful in that. The ask the right questions. I think of this as future me or future you, like that future ideal life. Like who can I be in whatever time period? Like that's the ideal person. What would they choose? You know, like in nutrition going back, it's not a basic example, but I think it's a relatable example for for many, many people. There are a lot of ways like we could eat and drop whatever number of pounds in the next whatever time period. But one of the more sustainable ways to think about it is how do you want to be eating regularly at blank years in the future? Like what's something that you can do? Think of so thinking through the idealized, the ideal version of your future you ⁓ it is really, really can connect you. And so back to that change piece, that connection piece. can help someone see the potential of change, see the possibility of themselves in that future, in that future embodiment of whatever that is. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. And and also to kinda caveat a little bit is just to remember that the future doesn't exist yet. All we have is the now. So we can think about okay, what would future Katie do? What would future Sarah do? Like And also think about what would my higher self do and my higher self is me and I if we all we have is right now, then what would my best version of me choose right now? And not that there's something wrong with the now version. It's just what would be more supportive. How can I love myself even more? How can I support myself? How can I nourish myself even more? And in a sustainable way. so often I've had people that are like, ⁓ I want to lose a bunch of weight. You know, for example, talking about losing pounds, it it's ⁓ it's for the wedding or it's for this event or it's to for this interview or well, whatever it is. But even if something works like the Ozempic craze right now. ⁓ It might help you lose weight, but is it doing it in the right way? Is it in this most sustainable, loving, supportive way? And that's might be harder. It might cause somebody to have to look at themselves in a different way or face something that might be uncomfortable, but it's necessary. speaker-0: That's care personalis, right? That care for the whole person. Yeah. That's caring for someone, for people you know, when you love someone, you know care and love isn't always easy. It's not a comfortable thing. So that care for the whole person starts with yourself. And that's when it ex you know, you do that and then you can extend that out into the world. But that care part You matter. You count. You deserve it just as much as everyone else. And any change we want to see in the world really does start here. speaker-1: Yeah. Give yourself grace. You know? This is your first this is all of our first times here. We're trying to just figure it out too. speaker-0: Figure it out. Okay, so what do you do, Katie, as we get ready to wrap up here? What do you do for yourself? Like what are some of your top practices or priority practices that you make sure you do to take care of yourself and stay aligned with what's most important to you? speaker-1: Yeah. Well, of course there's the physical things like eating as close to nature, as healthy as I can, with you know, without being too hard on myself if I want to eat something that, you know, isn't quote unquote healthy. ⁓ but so nutrition is is something that I focus on. Hydration as well, getting minerals in. I try to put some salt in my water or take some electrolyte minerals to charge my body up so I have energy. ⁓ movement, I like to do some yoga or lift some weights to support my physical body that way. ⁓ so things on the physical level. Emotionally, if I'm feeling sad one day, I'll actually let myself feel it. And if I'm feeling stressed, I will pause and I will go outside and get some sunlight. Or I will, you know, take a break. Or I'll ask myself, gosh, like what's coming up right now? What am I feeling? Like this morning I cried just because I was feeling overwhelmed and stressed about a life situation. But Had I not done that, that might have affected the rest of my day. And so I always allow myself to process an emotion in a safe, healthy way. Because life happens. There's challenges, we're gonna be facing stress, and it's what we do with that, it's how we choose to see it, is what makes the difference. So constantly reminding myself to recenter, staying in center. And then also having joy. Joy has been a big big piece of my life, laughter, not taking life so seriously. Sure, we can try to do everything as best as we can, but how can we have fun in the process? How can we bring joy into every day? So that's another thing that I've been focusing on a lot more lately and is the having joy in everything that I do. And of course there's plenty of other things that I do like my own NLP release work and things like that. But I I'll stuck stick with that for now. speaker-0: Thank you. I had some fun visuals just crossing my mind as you're sharing those. Like your your nutrition piece, right? If if we go back to that rucksack analogy, that's like making it a little stronger, you know, you got a little bit more strength there. The the hydration, so important. It that's so often overlooked. But that's one of my big four, I think, that in sleep, right? Ones that we don't necessarily talk about so much, but well, we do talk about sleep a lot more now, which is really good. But like hydration makes that rucksac maybe a little bit more supple. Exactly. So it's just like everyone right now is drinking their water, people. And then ⁓ when you talked about like that letting yourself cry, I visualize one of those rocks just disintegrating and dust flowing through the air, like letting that thing go rather than having your arc sac overfill and have to give that to someone else at some point in time. And then the joy, just that that light to it. So that's r let things give you buoyancy, what things ⁓ provide your sturdiness when you need it and then really ⁓ you know help elevate you because you're doing really important work and ⁓ this is this has been fantastic. So would you please share ⁓ where people can find you like what's going on in your life, your frameworks, what what you want people to be able to connect with you on. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. So the main platform that I use to update people about my life or teachings or offers and things like that is Instagram. So we can put that in the comments or the description below. And then I have my website as well, sunnysidekatie.com. ⁓ that's where I'm show I showcase all my offerings. Right now it's currently the trust your gut or the food as feedback course, which takes you know anybody through their relationship with food, how that can be a mirror and a messenger for their relationship with themselves. And then I have my Trust Your Get Collective, which is the group program where we start to apply these teachings into real life and real time with support, community, and and coaching with me live as well in the group. And then I have one on one ⁓ breakthrough sessions, which is more focused on the mindset shift with the NLP work and coaching it more in a personalized way to help somebody really be the safest person to lead their own life. So those are my main offers right now and talk all about that on my website and social media. speaker-0: Fantastic, thank you. And so your website is sunny side like sunny side up eggs, sunny side kt, kilo tango kt. And then your Instagram, what is your speaker-1: KT.com. That's by Katherine Rufino. ⁓ Catherine with the C. I'm Katie with the K, but Catherine with the C. ⁓ and then I also have my YouTube channel, TikTok, Substack, Facebook, you know, all those things too. ⁓ and then I also cater retreats. I host ⁓ leadership retreats as well. So I do do a lot of different things. World traveler over here. speaker-0: I love it. So one's with a C, one's with a K. I have a friend, by the way, whose license plate, she's got a K name and it starts with a C. So her license plate is literally with a C. Katie license plate. Nice. All right. Well, thank you so much. We will get all of that into the show notes for everyone. So again, Katie with a K, Catherine with a C. Katie with a K. Thank you for being here. ⁓ this has been so super valuable. And you're helping people. speaker-1: that's nice. speaker-0: We started talking about food and the idea, but really it's about this vessel, this body part. ⁓ and start, you know, you really help people start listening to that. And your story helps us to remember that the path to healing, to growth requires ⁓ sometimes a question or or at least discover or or or investigate what we've been taught. ⁓ and what our bodies, what again this vessel, but also that whole person is trying to tell us and make those choices with the with the guidance certainly of a of an extraordinary professional or make those day-to-day choices on your own. Make those choices that benefit that higher self. So again, you can find Katie at sunnysidekt.com and we'll put the rest into the show notes. And feel free to, I encourage you to look into her Trust Your Gut framework and those free training tools she's got. And if you're finding value in this podcast, please, please do follow so you catch all the future episodes. And take a moment now to either leave a comment about what resonated most with you about this or send this to someone else who needs to hear it. I'm sure you thought of a handful of people, if not more, while we were talking. Who really need to hear this. And then this week, ask yourself, what is my body trying to tell me? And what would change if I stopped fighting or ignoring it and started listening? Then take a future walk thinking about that and see what becomes clear. So until next time, thank you again for being here and build the life you're working for.