Latest / Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast / Karen Gee - Serpentine Wood - Geography Graduate, Cycling Entrepreneur, Cycling enthusiast, Affiliate Marketer

Transcript

Karen Gee - Serpentine Wood - Geography Graduate, Cycling Entrepreneur, Cycling enthusiast, Affiliate Marketer · Sukany4: The Walk and Talk Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to Sakania the Podcast, the podcast where we take a walk, have a chat, and discover the stories behind the people shaping our communities.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sakania and today I'm absolutely delighted to be joined by Karen G, founder of Cycles Brog and self-proclaimed accidental entrepreneur.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now Karen has what she calls a double life.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's a corporate project manager working on major insurance industry projects, and she runs Cycles Brog, a family cycling website that's been helping parents navigate the world of cycling with kids for over 14 years.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Karen never set out to build a business.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It all started with a pair of missing gloves and a frustrated search on a breakfast bar that sets the wheels in motion.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Which is what I love about this conversation.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's so relatable and it's a testament to the fact that our best ideas are born from our own experiences.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: We're recording this while walking through Serpentine Wood just outside Kendall in the Lake District.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what turned out to be an unexpectedly warm September day.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll hear me getting a bit puffed as we climb.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: A few gates creaking, maybe some golfers in the distance, and definitely giggles along the way.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we talk about everything from accidentally designing databases to battling long COVID, from the perils of buying toy bikes to the importance of finding your niche.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Karen shares incredible honest advice about entrepreneurship, the power of accountability, and why you absolutely shouldn't compare yourself to those perfect Instagram families.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get stuck in, if you're enjoying these walking conversations and the stories we're uncovering, I'd be so grateful if you could take a moment to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever it is you're listening.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Your reviews genuinely help other people discover the show and they make my day when I read them.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if you know someone who'd loved this episode, maybe a parent looking to get their kids into cycling, an aspiring entrepreneur, or someone who just enjoys a good chat while walking, please share it with them.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hit the share button and send it their way.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right then, let's get walking.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is my conversation with the brilliant Karen G.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Karen.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hiya.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really good, thank you.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: How how's your day been?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um a little bit fraught, I lost my phone.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I was hoping we wouldn't be able to meet each other.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was under the bed.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was under the bed.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm pleased you found it.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's one of those things, isn't it?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like you were saying before, you might have found it in the fridge.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't know what you do with it.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I I knew it was in the house because I'd put an alarm for myself on it at half past nine this morning.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I just couldn't find it anywhere.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh no, I've just got your phone's made.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's stuck in traffic.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: You were?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think I'm ghosting her, but um, yeah, it was under the bed.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, we've all had days like that, Karen.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness, I feel like I'm running backwards today.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've started at the end of my day working, catching off.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hopefully this book will calm us both down.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need it, don't we?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's quite nice that we've got it at this point in the day to regulate our systems and get a break from the desk just after lunch.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good time to go to work, I think.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this is beautiful, Karen.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is my local fell.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to come up here.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I usually come a couple of times a week.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: This clears my mind.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and on a day like today, it's so stunning.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there's lots of different routes you can do.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got like a 40-minute one if I'm in a sort of a bit of a rush.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, probably if I was fitter, I'd get it down to 30 minutes, but it's not quite there.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you can walk for anything up to about four or five hours if you've got all day, and you could just keep heading on for the next fells.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um serpentine wood, isn't it?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, just outside Kendall.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can walk to Windmere from here, can't you?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: You could do.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done that.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've not got Alon that would take me.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Have you done it?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I've heard it must be what 10, 12 miles.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that would be a big one, wouldn't it?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got to get back.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can get the bus back.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe I did that one day.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, thankfully it's still capped at three pounds now.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh right, yes.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes it better.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Much cheaper than the train.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And at least, yeah, at least you've got one of two options.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point, actually.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you could get the train later.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me about you, Karen.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I've got I've got kind of two, I would say I live a double life, so I've kind of got two aspects to my business.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and one aspect is I run Cycle Scrog, which is family cycling website.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other aspect is I'm a project manager.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in sort of the corporate world.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that started first.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um university.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, no.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: So so at university I studied geography.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um in Manchester.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then um my first job was actually geography related.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I worked at the Royal Geographical Society in London.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Fancy.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was many moons ago.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Many moons ago.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what did you do for them?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was the uh the assistant to the keeper of the collections, which sounds very fancy.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: What it basically means, looking at it back now, yeah, is basically they had a museum, little museum collection of basically um artifacts of kind of real colonial explorers and things that they stole.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: So now I'm looking back on it, I'm like, maybe that wasn't such a good role.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I used to kind of look after that, yeah, arrange little exhibitions and better arrange it things to be sent out on loan.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I acted more as just like a PA to the guy who was head of information resources.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's uh it's a really old building on um Kensington Gore in London next to the Albert Royal Albert Hall.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was uh it was a you know an interesting start to my career.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was you know uh nice and uh nice and um what was I gonna say lowly paid things in the centre of London.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't do it for too long before it was like, oh this isn't really um a long term, you know, it's not gonna work long term.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a good entry step after a geography degree.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I did some fundraising for a charity.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and in both of those roles, actually, um what was what happened um when I was working at the Royal Geographical Society, um, digitisation was just coming in.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, and um they got this guy in to help design you know do it, and he asked me to think about something overnight as to how I would categorize the collection that we had.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I went away and came back the next day, and he went, Oh my goodness, he said, Have you got a background in IT?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, No.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well you just designed a relational database for me, and I was like, What's a relational database?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, just on instinct, yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I've obviously got some sort of geeky thing in my brain, and then when I went to my next role, um we needed to they decided that they wanted to put in a database to manage the fundraising side of things, yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um I got involved in selecting the supplier, and then I got involved asked to go onto their user group and I went to their conference and everything, and I was like, do you know what?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think I might be a techie geek.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it obviously enjoys mid-20s, but I decided to apply for a graduate role in IT.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um, I got a role and I started working in a free insurance company.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um that sort of was a kick-starting of my sort of more formal corporate career.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just used to code big old mainframes.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, did you?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so funny how many people like me who who do have, as you said, a double life.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: You've got like your your sort of um geeky side and then your passion project side.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I did that for a number of years, and then then all of that sort of work, the but the work I was doing got offshore.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: When the whole you know, business model was like, oh, we don't do anything in the UK anymore.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I moved over into doing project management.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how did you find that transition?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was quite um it was okay.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, but I like that's that's the other side of me.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I do like organizing the project.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it turned out I was probably better at that than the coding.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was probably just semi-techie rather than a real techie.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I um I just um what happened then?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I worked, I had a really good gig.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I got to go to Madrid for nine months and work over there.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I got um outsourced to uh one of the big consulting firms.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um they sent me on a leadership course.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um they actually, it was really funny, there was this moment at it where it was like a lightning moment, lightning bulb moment, and the guy said to me, You know what your problem is, is you didn't apply to this organisation, you don't fit in.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: We've run the personality tests on you, and you don't really, you don't really fit in, and you're not really gonna go anywhere in this organisation.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh right, okay.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, you wouldn't have been recruited had you been the the sort of um you know applying your part.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not gonna go anywhere sort of more senior in this organisation, yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I was then given the opportunity for voluntary redundancy, which I put in for.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was all a bit high risk.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I was pregnant with my second child by that point.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um, but my idea was to um go and um do some sort of six months on, six months off consulting as a project manager, and um that sort of um I got the redundancy, uh huh.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Then had some time off to bring up my little boy, uh oh.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I went back, I put my LinkedIn profile, you know, looking for work.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the company that I'd originally been recruited into, yeah, got in touch and said, Oh, can you start on Monday?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Stopped it.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I went back, so I went back and um then I was working on a freelance basis just on and off with them.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just started managing bigger and bigger and bigger projects.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm just gonna pause you there for a second to say your laces are undone.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: On the other side.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: On the other one, brilliant.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Let me just do that up.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're welcome.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so I just started working, so I'd work about you know, do say a nine-month a year project.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: You work in projects, don't you?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, as you know what it's like, you know, you do one and then yeah, it's like what am I doing next?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So um troughs, isn't it?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um so I love that side of my my life, yeah.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sort of ended up managing some really big, big critical projects, lots of regulatory people-based projects in the insurance industry, and um, so that was that's the corporate side of my life.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's how I got there.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you're still doing that now, yes, yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um I yeah, so um, so then how did you get into cycle sprog?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: And where did the name come from?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well that's uh that was when I'd had my two children, yeah, and I'd always cycled, so I've always been a cyclist, and it's how I got around, and yeah, um before we had the kids, my husband and I used to do it at the weekends, go off mountain biking, and it was just you know a big part of my life.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then when I had my babies, when I had my first one, I didn't know that you could cycle with a baby.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't know at all.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I just carried on cycling for me, so it was oh so it was like uh individual activity, yeah, and I'd leave the leave the baby at home with my husband in turns, and I would go off and ride my bike, yeah, but we couldn't ride together, obviously.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I even started doing triathlons as a way of kind of I think proving yeah I still had something that was me rather than yeah being a mummy.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is a bit overgrown, isn't it?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful though.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so um so I was just happily sort of cycling myself, yeah.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then one day one of my friends who was uh someone I did trathlons with and who had a daughter of exactly the same age, she kind of turned up at my door one day when the kids were about a year old, and she had her daughter in a rear bike seat on the bike.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, Look what I've got! Oh wow and it that was another one of those moments, you know, pew yeah, isn't that really interesting?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you kind of what I'm interested in is that you've been cycling like your whole life and you hadn't seen people with that.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're talking my eldest is 19 now.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a long time ago, and people weren't.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: That wasn't, no, or not you know, not visibly where I was, yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um your eldest is 19.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, me, Karen.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: I know you don't look like you have a 19 hair.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: You went to university on Sunday.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh um, um, yeah, so we so I cycled all the time, yeah, um, you know, with him, and then I got pregnant again.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so then I stopped, and then I was like, oh right, I'm sure there must be a way of cycling with two children.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: So then we discovered that there were trailers and you could put two children in.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then we just carried on, you know, every time you just with kids, every time you just sort something out, they grow.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we kind of worked our way through various contraptions, but it was always really hard because we were like, me and my friend were really the only families we knew who were doing it, right?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um we're talking back, you know, sort of sort of 18, 17, 16, 17, 18 years ago, there was nothing around, there was no information.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: The internet was still, I mean, the internet was obviously there, but there were the same number of websites and online magazines and all this sort of stuff that there was.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it got to the point where sort of 14 years ago it was, yeah.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was it was just around about this time of the year, uh-huh, maybe a couple of months later, and I was trying to find a pair of gloves for my youngest.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was we were commuting him to preschool, yeah, and he was sitting in a front bike seat and he had his hands on the handlebars.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they were getting perishally cold in the morning.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can imagine, you know, maybe it's tiny.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's tiny in your little hands.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I was trying to find a little pair of waterproof cycling type gloves for him.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they couldn't find any, you know.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I can remember the moment I was standing there because we had like a breakfast bar thing and PC was on the best part.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can remember I turned to my husband and I said, Oh god, there needs to be a website for busy parents like me that just tells you where to go to get all this stuff.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm really fed up with this, you know, it's every time they grow, I've got to go through it all again.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know what I need.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he said to me, Well, why don't you set one up?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was like red bag to a bull.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like, because I'm working, yeah, I've got two children under the age of about four.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I thought you were gonna say the opposite.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't know anything about this, yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what a really stupid thing to say, you know.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I've got enough on my plane.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how funny.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: I do not want to be setting up a website, yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the conversation, you know.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was the conversation at the time.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then you know, like when something goes in your head and then it you can't look at it.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: You've got like a worm in there and it's just a job.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, ooh, okay, it doesn't exist, maybe it should do, because I now know, because I've been doing it for a couple of years by then.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've kind of got all this stuff in my head that a parent who's a few years behind me would really benefit from.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I just started blogging, really.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this was back uh sort of 14 odd years ago now.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: And was that like a weekly blog or um it was whenever I could get the time really.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I just started, there was no there was no Instagram back then or anything like that.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um people would probably do it differently now.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, did you as your project manager?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, look at this, we're at the golf course.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the golf course, yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's so pretty.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't look like there's anybody gonna hit us on the head in the golf ball at the moment.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I remember doing this walk a lot actually when I lived up here.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just it's just so beautiful, yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And seeing the golfers in the morning.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be really fit to play golf here though, because some of these teas are really guessing.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: They are.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just stunning.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's gorgeous.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're so lucky.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know, we've got some draw stands.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fancy doing this multiple times a week.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: So lucky.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So lucky.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Luck and choice, yes.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: We decided.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So with your project management background, um, were you tempted to sort of draw up a plan and I did, yes, I love it.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided before we went live, so I sort of started this website, but I was actually determined it wasn't just gonna be like about me, it wasn't just gonna be my so I say it was a blog, it was probably more, it was it went into I went into it with the I want it to be a proper website.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we sketched out what we wanted to do and how we were gonna lay it out.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but a lot of it was me writing about our personal experiences, okay, and then supporting it with guides to say, okay, for this age, this is what you can have.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was all quite easy back then because there wasn't there wasn't very much tool.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: So the choice was like you can have A or B.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's it.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I started to and then we published it in um May 2012.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was when we first went live.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I was in Kendall.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Kendall.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: We lived in Chester at the time.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, did you?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I think to begin with, my mum was the only person who was reading it.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so so I sort of you know, I sort of was just writing stuff, and then then I started to get like a few emails coming through with people asking questions.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then we set up a Facebook account and people started to you know like our posts and everything.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was like, oh, this is you know, people are liking this.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I just as the boy every time the boys grew and I discovered something else, I just could write about it.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was just sort of this ad hoc thing that was growing, and also quite a nice sort of history of your children's journey, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, our successes and our failures, yeah, and then brands started to get in touch with me and go, Oh, we've seen your website, it's really nice.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Would you mind if we sent you uh whatever?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then you could review it for us and amazing.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of probably a very early influencer, you know.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um creator, yeah.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I started to do that, and that was okay, yeah, but I I did actually realise soon I didn't want to be an influencer.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be posting about things all the time, and it got quite stressful because it was like, right, we need to go on a bike ride.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, to record the content, to record the content and all that sort of stuff.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, going on, I mean, I love going on bike rides with my kids, it's absolutely amazing.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And not to keep pausing and but to keep having to do it, and almost when when it's like you've got to do it, like we've got to go today, when sometimes it might be like today's just not the day for it to work.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so I and the other problem was I'm I started to get very constrained because my boys are always of a certain age, yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got two boys, so I you know, I didn't want of course, yeah, I didn't want the website to just be about two white boys of a certain you know the age of their at the moment.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to have you know kids of every age and every you know type of riding as well.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because because we did mountain biking as well, yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody does mountain biking, so it's like how do I find someone who might do a different type of riding in a different location?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: We live in Kendall, so I'm never gonna get a city, yeah, you know, or something.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Started to need a network, so I started to just tap into my friends, yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um God love our friends, hey yeah, they're patient.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: They're so patient with us.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: So uh so there was a phase where you like all my cycling friends got bikes for their kids and stuff, and and then um and then something called affiliate marketing came along, okay.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, which happened at just the right time, which then meant that we could get a commission if somebody started bought a link.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so suddenly it's like I could monetize this, yeah, it's a business.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um, so I was doing all of this on the side of the desk, you know, working four days a week.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I always work four days a week once I became a mum, yeah.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Working four days a week and then doing this Christmas and Christmas holidays, summer holidays, and in the weekends and evenings and stuff, yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then it got to the point where just suddenly, you know, when you go, why am I doing this like all this time?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, um you know it's taking up all my time.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I probably and I'm making a bit of money from this, I can start to recalibrate.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I went down to three days a week in my project management work.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, amazing! Yeah, um, and um.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you can be super efficient as a project manager.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was just gonna say everyone's dressed for summer and I'm dressed for woolly leggings and I am so hot right now and jealous of the summer looking attire.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't blame me.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is the end of September we're recording this.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it has been really cold.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: And my house was freezing, to be fair.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh suddenly the sun's decided to come out just for today.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good note to everyone.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well yes.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a good note to everyone.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: If you're working from home, make sure you step outside before what's happening.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, sorry, I broke your floor.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I might have to take my touch shirt off because I'm gonna go.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's gonna show off.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have nothing left to take.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on fire.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm not gonna moan too much because we get this beautiful day.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Look at these views of the mountains.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have a decision here, actually.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: We can go down and round and back.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or we can go up to the top and then round.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mind.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not time constrained today.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to go to the top?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's do that.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: We get a really lovely nice carant time.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: We get we uh get a lovely view from the top as well.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you owe me at least two years, though.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm crashing it in now.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I promise I will not moan.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or we can go around if you'll no no.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Are you sure?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm happy with that.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's our base.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: If you want some water, I've got some.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're a star.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I did have this conversation when I bought these fleecy legging things.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I had this conversation.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was when I was in America two weeks ago, and my friend I was with did say, now you're gonna go home and want to wear them because you're gonna feel cozy and then you're gonna be really hot.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I can tell it she was right.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And where were you in America?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Was it cold or no?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was hot.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was planning a legging.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was planning ahead.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sun season.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because I quite like a fleecy legging on the sofa while I'm Netflixing.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe not on maybe not today.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, anyway.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's not about me.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Are you sure you're okay?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fine.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm not moaning.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: The sun's gone behind a cloud.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is me not moaning.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is me on a good day not moaning.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I totally broke your flow about four minutes ago.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's where we what were we talking about?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Project management.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, so I went down to three days a week, didn't you?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you did.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I when my projects were finished, I used to I I was kind of um going from one project to another, you know, sort of straight away, and then I was like, oh no, I'm gonna take a break.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I saved up really hard, yeah, like really frugally, and it's like, well, I'm gonna take at least six months to try and take Cycles Frog to the next stage.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool, okay.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um each time I did that, so I did a project and then I'd take a break, and then I would grow it somehow.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you know Penny, don't you?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do know Penny.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Penny of Pink Spaghetti asistence.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: So Penny's my virtual assistant as well.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: So she was like one of my first six-month, nine-month projects.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when I bring someone in who can actually help maybe because it's like, oh, I'm starting to run a little mini business here, yeah.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And you get to the point where um you're just literally like a hamster on a wheel, yeah, and it's like oh, I'm I'm just doing stuff, just keep things you know, going nowhere, really.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Penny came in and she started doing um stuff for me, and then you just have a shout out for how amazing Shelly is.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Penny is absolutely amazing, phenomenal, and she actually said to me, I think you should talk to Karen from Cycles for your podcast.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Have you talked to her yet though?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good shout-out.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: She's actually how did I not even think of it?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, she's on my list.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she needs to be on your list.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Season three is gonna be like 20 episodes long, it's supposed to be 10, but it's all good.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, so good.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so I so over the years I've just built up a team really of people so that it's not reliant on me.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So when you say is it are you employing people?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I am, yes.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: So so what happened during COVID?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I unfortunately got COVID really early, as did my whole family, and we didn't get better, and we ended up with long COVID.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, I'm sorry to get that.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And oh yeah, I mean it's it's one of those things, isn't it?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: But suddenly, I mean I couldn't even get out of bed some days, you know.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was just you know, and I certainly couldn't concentrate and couldn't work, and that really made me realise I do need to future-proof this, yeah.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then also I've kind of been on this entrepreneurial journey that you know you also you start out doing absolutely every job in your business, and then if it's gonna grow and be of any use really, yeah, and have any sort of sustainability, you've got to let go of things and you've got to bring in experts.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of then went on that journey of actually bringing people in, and um you who you've had one of the things he was one of my season one, he was one of my freelancers, so I started off on a freelancer model, yeah, of bringing also he um he came in um and his kids were just the right age to your life, so it worked really well.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: So he came in on a freelance basis, yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then he got other opportunities, so had to go off and do other things, yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then over time it's like, oh, if you've got freelancers, they're always um they've always got hundreds of things on and they're never entirely focused on your work, yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, I mean some of them it depends, but I wasn't giving them, I wasn't able to give them the full-time hours they needed at that point, yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I had all these different freelancers, and then I was like, actually, let's reassess.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Can I bring in somebody to work?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can I afford to bring in somebody to work part-time?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but as the sole job for them, yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um Saskia was my first hire.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um then I brought on board, so she worked with me for a year, yeah.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then she went and got herself elected as a Green Party councillor.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that ended up being that you once you do that, you have a stip end or whatever they call it, stipend, and she had to go off and work for them for half many hours a week.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um so then it was like, right, let's bring in some more people.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I brought in Mildred and Emily, and um yeah, I had to learn to delegate and yeah, it's a different manager team.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, but considering your project management background though, yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm a project manager, not a you know business owner, business owner.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and you learn, I mean I am a business owner, aren't I?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I've never had to manage you know my own team as it were.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's for the long term, yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: So um so it's a different mindset, it's a different learning curve, yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you learn and you learn, and I don't know.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, yeah.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what's really nice now, you see, is this is where I wanted to get to, yeah, is the business runs without me now.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: So my last project I went and did.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, I just checked in with them like a couple of times.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh amazing.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we had a weekly team meeting and then I checked in with them on things, you know, but we've got to the point now where they know what they're doing, yeah, they do it, and I'm not surplus to requirements, but I've been able to take myself out of the business, which was what I'd wanted to do.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like a five-year journey, really, from um, you know, COVID was the start of 2020, wasn't it?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, through to sort of start of this year where I was able to do that.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, so it's been a so like I say, it's a totally weird double life.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'm sitting in a boardroom talking about insurance with a senior insurance exec, yeah, and then other time I'm talking to a parent about a balance bike or something like that.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Which world am I in?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, which hat have I got on today?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's nice.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And do you feel that that gives you the balance that you need personally in your life?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because it kind of stemmed from uh this thing doesn't exist, I'm gonna make it.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and now it's uh it's a whole enterprise in its own right.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, and it and you get um, you know, I just get I never get fed up now of ever, and I don't think I ever will, of parents contacting me and going, Oh, I've discovered this website and we've done this and we bought that, and we took your advice, we didn't know where we were going with our sort of cycling journey, and now we've done this, that and the other.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Or my big the big B I've got in my bonnet is there's a lot of kids' bikes out there that are really rubbish, really kind of built as toys, right?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they're really heavy and they're really badly made.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they're not safe and they're not really they're not safe.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are not safe, but some of them are just not enjoyable.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like if a bike is so heavy, yeah, a little four-year-old can't pick it up, you know, they're not gonna have much fun riding it.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we kind of advise parents around this, and they go, Oh my! I thought my kid hated riding their bike, but actually, when I got them a lightweight one, yeah, they love it, and oh thank you so much.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting because it's quite a good life skill, isn't it, to ride a bike.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if something like that is gonna put a child off.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, that's quite significant, and um, you know, especially at the moment with good like um environmental concerns, so riding a bike, if you can cycle to school or cycle, you know, replace some of the uh you know, everyday journeys with bikes, yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that's becoming really popular in some of the cities that have got really good infrastructure, yeah, um, coming up through.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, people are replacing a car with the bikes or cargo bikes and things like that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um yeah, so I so I've kind of um yeah, sort of accidentally gone ahead of this business, and we um we do a lot of you know, we try and do a lot of inspirational articles, yeah, you know, showing people things that they can do, you know, holidays they could go on or things they could do with different you know aspects of cycling.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we also try and provide the the practical advice around okay, your your child's this age, what do you need?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: What you do, and then we try and review the products as well to say are they any good, yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that people know that they're buying something that's decent.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, yeah, that sounds great.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I get that's a very long-winded way, yeah, of saying how I got to where I am and what I do, and yeah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that's question one.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm kidding.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kidding.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a conversation.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have the preset questions or scripts, so don't worry.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you if you were to advise someone else who is starting on this sort of journey, what would you say?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, big broad questions.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: That is a really broad question.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: I would say um, because yeah, let me just add to that, because there's so many things that can put you off, and it's scary.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, the way you started was to address the immediate thing.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's you just have to do it, yeah.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the good things, and I can't remember where I read this, but is tell everybody you're gonna do it.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you tell everybody you're gonna do something, I don't know whether you did this with a podcast, but I'm gonna do a podcast, yeah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then when somebody sees you next time, they go, How's the podcast going?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of feel comfortable.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I told people I was doing it.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Good for you.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Before we published it, yeah.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's like, Oh, I've you know I had better do it now.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've better do it now, or I'm gonna be stupid.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think there's that side of it, and then if but then there's been times as well where it just hasn't suited me.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I got a job, I had to go to Dublin for nine months and work on a really, really stressful project.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was away from my children four days a week, my husband, yeah, and then that's tough, isn't it?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was tough.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was working when I was out in Dublin, I was working ridiculous hours, yeah.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like I just haven't got time, so I didn't do anything on Cyberst for nine months, and you know, it was just a conscious decision, yeah, not doing anything.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then the funny thing was when I came back, yeah, I looked at the visitor numbers on the website, and more and more people have been coming to us and using us and finding so that was the point as well where I went, Oh, actually, this is useful, yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: People are finding this, yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's almost being kind to yourself and not if if you know, don't try and do everything, yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and there's times in your life where you have to prioritize, but yeah, um, that's a really good message, really strong, and then I think you also have to find out what is it, what is your niche, yeah, and what works, you know, what works for you.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, so so like in terms of this podcast, you're really, really clear what your podcast is, you know.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you're not gonna go off and suddenly do a podcast about I don't know, cooking, yeah, cooking your cats or you know, whatever.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, uh very, very focused, and that's why um you're able to build your brand and fan base because yeah, if people don't want to hear people walking up a cell in the late district talking about their baby games, you're not gonna listen to your podcast, are you?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think to begin with, I I don't I wasn't don't think I wasn't sure, but I was kind of like, um, yeah, what are we trying to cover?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you know, are we trying to do all cycling?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are we trying to do cycling just with babies or are we doing you know, and it's it's taken us a while to try and sort of go, right?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is the bits we do, yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then somebody else will fill another niche.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you can't there's nothing stopping you working in partnership with people, yeah.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like ah, if somebody's doing something really good over here and there's an overlap, yeah, you can work with them, yeah, but you don't have to fill every you know, try and be all things to all people, as it were.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think the more we've learnt that, or just across social platforms, you know, we were talking earlier, you're not doing a video podcast, you're not doing a visualised podcast or whatever it's called, yeah.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's great, you know.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, decision made decision made, yeah.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry about it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you suddenly start going, oh maybe I should have visualized podcasts, maybe I should do it really distracting, doesn't it?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or maybe I should do an in you know, maybe I should live stream it, or you know, whatever.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if that's not what you want to do, don't do it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there's now so many platforms you unless you're a multinational corporation, you can't be good across everything, yeah.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um so no, that's that's a really good point.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think having a very clear vision of what it is you're doing, and sometimes with these sort of enterprises, it's evolving all the time.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, the way you started back in your blog compared to where you are now, oh very different, yeah.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't recognise it, would you?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um, no, and and I also thought I was just gonna be writing about um you know, pulling and carrying my kids.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realise that once they started pedaling, it got even more complicated, so I just kept on going, really.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, where do you stop?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there's a point where you go, right, okay, this is probably the cut-off, right?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, you're not spreading yourself too thinly, but so what is your cutoff?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not sure because I was.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have gone up to sort of 26-inch wheel bikes for kids at that level.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's sort of 10, 11, 12-year-olds.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got like one or two articles on teenagers, but nothing much.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I took my son to university for the first time on Sunday and dropped him off.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yesterday I was writing a newsletter about the experience.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I very rarely write the newsletters anymore because my team write them while I was writing this.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: They asked me to do something about it.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I was like, oh, these are all the things I've been learning in the past one year while he's been on the gap year.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And these are all the questions I've had while I was um, you know, parenting at a late teen.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I've actually asked my audience and said, you know, what do you want to know about side with the teenagers?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and and and also does anybody know the answer to this?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because I don't know the answer because I haven't lived it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think what probably happened was I was living that stage.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've kind of got to live it, yes, and then we're put back on it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I was probably just too deep in it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so now I'll have to make a business decision of actually is there is there a need for it?
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a market?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do I want to do it?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Will it spread us too thinly?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Will it, you know, or will it be a new a new great resource for people?
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Will you distract from like the good stuff you've got already?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean when's this gonna go out?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be is it gonna be next year?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it'll probably be next year, too.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so maybe by then I may have done something on teenagers on the website, or I may may not have done so.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: You will find out, yeah.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Or I might do it in like get around to doing it in two or three years' time, who knows.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I've now got that lived of experience that I can then call on top of it.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that's important as well, isn't it?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's important in your business to for it to be relevant to you to make it authentic and have integrity and connection to your brand.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important for me.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not for everybody, yeah.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: And some people will just go, there's a marketing opportunity here, okay.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I see I think I could make a quick buck.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: But is that sustainable long term?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I always remember somebody came to me for some business advice and they wanted to set up a there were two of them and they wanted to set up a tattoo website about removing tattoos.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And they um two blokes, uh-huh.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um they wanted to know how I was monetizing cycle scrog because they wanted to monetize and they decided that they could make this money, so um, by selling tattoo removal creams or something, I think it was.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right, okay.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, um, so so I was like, oh okay, that's an interesting web sort of idea.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: I said, yeah, how many tattoos have you got?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I was expecting it to be like two blokes with completely covered in tattoos.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Between them, they had one tiny tattoo.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, and not because they've removed all the others, so I was like, oh okay, that's interesting.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: But they were like, oh, we're gonna make loads of money from this.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then they said, so then I said, Oh right, okay, so you know, who's your target market?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they went, women.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I went, oh right, okay.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you're two blokes, you're gonna really interesting.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Well, what sort of woman?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they went, well, what do you mean what's all women?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just women, and I was like, Well, are you talking about women who who are massively into tattoos and are covered from head to toe in tattoos and you know, um need to get one got rid of because it was not right, or are you talking about like I don't know, executive women who've got one tiny tattoo that they need to get rid of?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's you know, or are you talking about young women?
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Are you talking about old women?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, but they were only just women, yeah.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh, I'm not sure this is gonna work.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, they set it up, yeah, and sure enough, it I don't think it lasted six months because there's no authenticity, they didn't understand what the market, yeah, yeah, what their avatar wanted, as it were.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who's your ideal customer?
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: Who is your ideal customer?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and how do you speak to them?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and that is like um the first thing, isn't it?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who are you targeting?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so with your business, you were your ideal customer, yeah.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's usually how businesses start, isn't it?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a podcast is it like, oh, this is a podcast I'd like to listen to, yeah, and then you make it.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I just thought, yeah, I just found a lot of podcasts where it's all sitting down and talking.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are great, a lot of them I lose interest in.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I thought, well, I'll just do one for myself.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's not many that go out and about, is there, that would do walks like this.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think Claire Balding's ramblings I like listening to, yeah.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: But she hasn't done that, I don't know.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's done that for a while.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but it's so much more interesting, I think.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's kind of fun as well.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun to do it and to be uh immersed in nature, yeah, and also good synergy with your business because yours is about encouraging people to go out absolutely and enjoy their bikes and be outside as a family, yeah, yeah, and it's so important we don't do that enough.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not, and we're too tired to screens, and another reason why I didn't want it to be a video format because I don't want to be out doing the walking for someone to sit at a laptop and watch it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Far better they put the podcast on and come for a walk up the south, do whatever, just go out and walk out the streets even if you don't have to be in the countryside just to get outside and yeah, or explore one of the walks that we've done.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do you put the GPS on for people?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, but I am thinking about um doing a little brochure per season.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, with all the different rules.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: That would be good.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that would be a really nice idea.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do we at the top now and it's actually quite breezy, and I'm wishing I had slightly thicker leggings.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well, thanks for saying that, because I'm still on fire.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get a picture of you with the kid.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Should we get some?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: We can see the sea.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, of course we can.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's beautiful, it's just stunning.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely lovely, isn't it?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's and you live over there somewhere.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: I do on the other side of that hill, yeah.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we talked about what you would advise someone starting out, and I think that was great advice on the basis that you have to start somewhere, don't you?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And perfection isn't the answer.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to get yourself out there and keep learning as you go because you weren't um you didn't sort of suddenly emerge from writing a blog to knowing how to run a business.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh, employees, and I think that's that's the point that where I was kind of like actually I could have just carried on just blogging about what I was doing, not monetizing it at all, yeah.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Do it for a couple of years and shut it down, yeah.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the transition to suddenly realizing you're a small business owner, yeah, and then everything that that involves has been um you know I'd say it's been a great adventure, yeah.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've really enjoyed it, yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's been uh been challenging at times.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um was there any time that you thought I'm gonna stop, can't do this anymore?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I the only time where I've really, really Thought that was when I had long COVID.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um the first sort of six months I caught it at the end of the March in 2020.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the first six months were I didn't think I would ever ride a bike again.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was struggling to even literally just do a supermarket delivery on the online and then have it connect collect, you know, delivered and stuff.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: That would wipe me out for a day.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd gone.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: For someone who hasn't had COVID that badly, I had pretty mild COVID, it's so hard to comprehend how debilitating it's been for people.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the COVID itself wasn't too bad.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was a week of feeling a bit rough.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was no worse than any other sort of flu type thing.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: It was just the fact that I just didn't get better and I got worse instead.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time we didn't know what was going on with it, you know, and you know, anybody who had it was just too ill to talk about it.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'd gone from, you know, working in a as a project manager, running a big I was running like a big Brexit-related program.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was a busy mum of two kids, I was out cycling, I'd just done a really big cycle trip and I was really fit.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was running cycle sprog, I was running the local cycling club's kids section.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was just absolutely at maximum, you know.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then suddenly it's like I can't even do an online supermarket delivery without it wiping me out.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was and it gave me a whole new perspective on you know how people with chronic illnesses have to live.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um so for that sort of first six months, I was like, Well, I couldn't, I can never do cycle sprock again because I'm abroad, I'm never gonna ride a bike again.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't run a business where I'm talking to people about cycling, and um I've you've can't very near you know, that was the closest I probably came to um to doing it, and then actually it was like, well, if if if I had only partly recovered, I still it's still valid, I could have still done it.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, that's just a mental attitude, isn't it?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Of I can't it is, yeah.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I was gonna say I still would have been, but I think it also speaks to how important integrity and authenticity is to your core values in your business.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I felt like a fraud.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Oh, I can't do this.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but thankfully, over the it took about two and a half years until I was fully better, yeah.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um but and it was a slow journey back, but thankfully I got back to the point where I could do it, you know, do what I want to do, and the fact that we're doing this big walk today.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so I'm probably fitter than I was before I had given it.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yes, so it was uh um that that I think the rest of the time I've like I said before, I've put it on hold, yeah, because I've been like right now's not the right time to do anything sort of pro proactive with it.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think you know, you can't you can never say never because you just don't know what the business uh climate is going to be like, you don't know what's gonna happen with AI, you don't know you know do people are still people still gonna want to ride bikes with their kids, you know, you just don't know.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: But what I'm trying to do is future-proof it, yeah, so that it has got a sustainable future, yeah.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that I think you know it's one of these things to my mind that as much as AI could dominate a lot of things, you can't take away from the benefits of um oh yeah, the benefits of being outside, exercising, yes, and all those good things.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's only so much you can so far you can go without engaging with that side of yourself.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean until AI can take the kids out for a bike ride and review a bike for me, then there's always gonna be some some sort of human intervention.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'd probably be long gone before I hope I'm long on before we get to that point.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would be a really sad day.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think you know, we are getting to this point where um people's people's relationships with AI is growing and their conversations with AI is growing to the point that they have AI friends, don't they?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and I find that pretty scary.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah as someone who's an early adopter of most things, and I do use AI, I just find you can't lose touch of reality and you can't um lose confidence in your own ability.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't you don't have to ask AI everything because you actually know it.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're just assuming you're using it as a crutch, really, aren't you?
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, yes, that's a good way to put it.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you have to it's like GPS, like once that knife came out, we stopped looking at the signs.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, we're looking at the screen, and then the screen takes you somewhere stupid, yeah, and you're not you're you know, if you'd looked at the sign, you'd know that that was the wrong way.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been guilty of that.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've ended up in a car park.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't meant to be.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, some people drive off cliffs and things, don't they?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's sometimes it is actually not funny sometimes, yeah.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that isn't an extreme level of not looking up, yeah, yeah.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like the scooter says, whatever.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna follow it, yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we touched on earlier about um mentorships.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how important has that been to developing your um cycles bug?
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely critical, I think.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is there a distinction?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Are we distinct distinguishing between mentors and coaches here?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, coaching is quite quite, I think in the last five years has really blown up.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, I well for me a mentor is someone who has known my business and helped me through a phase of it.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh, but has made me um think and come up with the answers myself almost.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very certain something.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um some of them, well not necessarily something, they're more like they've got a lot of experience and they're very good at making me realise where I need to go and pointing me in the direction and guiding me through it.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got somebody at the moment who I'm working with um who's excellent, who um I got um some funding for through the business growth hub, yeah, the Cumbria Growth Hub.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he's really you know made me reassess what the sustainability of my business looks like and what my leadership skills like, and we speak once a month, and he kind of checked, you know, says I says, right, okay, what are you gonna focus on this month?
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then go away.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't but I don't know whether that's coaching or I think it's mentoring, yeah.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas there's other times where it's like right, I need to learn this skill, I need to know how to do this one thing, and then I'll bring in an expert who will help me.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but they'll just help me in that one thing, yeah.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes it'll end up in a lasting relationship, or sometimes it's like I just need your knowledge, yeah, to for that for that bit, and then I've got that, and then I can take it forward, and I need you know.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't know.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_00: It does make sense because it's the perfect answer, really, because what we're saying is one size doesn't fit all.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, and there are different options for what you need for that point in time.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and at different, yeah, very much different stages of the business.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: So when I started Cycles Prague, I was in a um, I was living in Chester and I was in a group, and it was I can't remember what it was, an accelerator.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_00: That was it, a business accelerator, and we were all there, we'd all had good a good business idea, yeah.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we either had no business but we wanted to start one, or we just started our businesses, and we were kind of like you know, six months in and we were going, ah, what do we do?
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and we used to meet every week for for quite a long time, yeah.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really good, and we spoke, we'd we'd all come with a problem, yeah.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then everybody would kind of say, Well, have you thought about this?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: Have you thought about that?
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the group often comes up, you know, somebody who's got no experience in what it is you're doing can have had lived experience or you know, just a different viewpoint on something, yeah.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was really helpful for me.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's something to be said about joining networks and finding the right network for you, yeah.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because not all of them will work for you.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, and it's finding the people, yeah.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and there was one guy on that, and um he our businesses were totally different, yeah.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we still every so often see each other on LinkedIn, and I see he's done something amazing with his internet business, and I'll be like, oh, fabulous, fabulous.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I always have this little sense of prey because it's like I was helping you when you were just trying to work out what the hell you were doing, you know.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was amazing.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a little bit, yeah.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I did another one through COVID, yeah.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which was an online accelerator with Nat O West, and I got put in a group, and there was this Welsh sheep hill farmer who was running a business um in Wales, and I'm a vegetarian cyclist, and we've got we had absolutely nothing in common, but every time I spoke to him, he came up with something really insightful about my business, you know, or some kind of real motivational sort of uh speech to tell me what you know, and and it's good, it's good to have that network.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've had other times, like at the moment, where it's one-on-one with a professional, as it were, you know, who does it.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've got a really good friend, actually, my friend who introduced me to the bike seat.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, she's called Catherine.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's the bike seat.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: The bike, you know, when my kid, you know, on the bike seat, yeah.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: When she turned up with her daughter on a bike seat, our kids are exactly the same age.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's I thought it was the network.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: She um she's a business coach.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so over the years, yes, over the years we've kind of been each other's mentor, as it were.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I like what you said about you know the importance of connecting with different types of business.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think there's such a temptation to try and stick to your niche.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you're not learning anything new then.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're learning good stuff, of course, but it's always good to get a fresh perspective.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's is that outstanding time uh you know, an external perspective.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: And someone will go, well, why don't you do that?
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, Yeah, oh, why didn't I do that?
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know exactly because I just didn't think about it.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a good idea.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real, yeah, real um sort of gems that people come up with.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and equally you could you could contribute towards their business, like you said.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yeah.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that makes you feel really good as well when you and sometimes and sometimes it's really funny.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're saying you're going, they're telling you what the problem is, and you're screaming inside going, it's so bloody obvious, isn't it?
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: You need to do this, and then they stop, and everybody just looks at each other and goes, Should we tell them?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't see, sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees, can you?
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: You get so caught up in something, you're so deep, you're so deep into the weeds of it, and you just need to have somebody else come in and point out the obvious, yeah.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or sometimes you need somebody to just go, do you know what?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: There is no right or wrong to this.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you just need to make a decision and go with it because you're paralyzed from not making a decision, yeah.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: And they're both either going to be equally good or they're both gonna be equally bad, and you just have to pick one and go with it, yeah.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: And look back, no regrets, just and that's a that's another really good point that decision-making paralysis and getting into the habit of being accountable for for that decision, and you can't delegate it and the mum stops with you.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a big psychologically, it's a big thing to to reconcile when you get into this sort of entrepreneurial space that actually I can't blame my boss.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: I can't blame my boss, and I can't phone the IT help desk.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, those are the two big things, yes, like yes.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'll just fix these things myself.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you see that there'll be a day that comes where um the project management stops and cycles prog takes over?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, I do do that on a rotating basis, yeah.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I I don't know because it depends.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: If Cycles Brog becomes absolutely self-sustaining and self-sufficient and support my team and me and my family and everything else, yeah.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um I could step back.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um do you do you feel like I quite enjoy it?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: I quite enjoy it.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's a bit sounds a bit weird, but just that it's the cycling industry is really great, and running my own business is really great, yeah.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a very different experience to being in the cut and thrust of a project.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's an adrenaline rush, isn't it?
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I don't know.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess what I'm looking forward to is you know, as my kids leave home and I get a bit older not having to do it as often, maybe.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or I've always picked and choosed as well, you know.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm quite selective.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: Nice position to be in as well, you know.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: If I if someone asks me to do a project that I know is just gonna be a nightmare, I'll be like, No, thank you.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, but then beggars can't always be choosers, can they?
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes it's like right, I just need to take whatever because I need to pay the mortgage, yeah.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, um, so I don't know.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe we should do this again in 10-15 years, and then we can go, what I did what did you do?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: Season 45.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: What happened to Karen and did she give up budget management?
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: What happened to Cyclist?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well not that's a good question, that um well who knows.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who knows?
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well that's the thing, we don't need to have all the answers, really.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think sometimes when you over over um road map yeah and you're too prescribed in what you think you need to do yourself on things.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I definitely I definitely don't want to be oh well I don't know.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely want to slow down a bit, yeah, you know, and you know, as I get a bit older, I think you know, you don't know how long you've got, so I want to be able to go and maybe do a bit of travelling and all that sort of stuff, but I don't want to go, oh I want to retire and never do anything because I don't uh you know I think I'm not sure I'd be good at that, yeah.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I you don't come across as someone who can just um stay still for too long, yeah, yeah.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly not for too long.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: So in terms of um holidays then holidays and cycles and kids, yeah, what are the sort of things you recommend?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and are they holidays in this country or I've done both.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think it's it's working out what do you enjoy?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then so for us, we enjoyed cycling, yeah.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: We built our holidays around cycling, and it was really good because it gave us a common focus, yeah.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got two boys, so sometimes it's hard as a mum.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: You kind of I wanted to stay engaged and doing stuff with them.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we would go and do find a campsite next to a trail centre, yeah, and then we would camp up, and then we would go and ride our bikes on the various trails, yeah, and then go back, you know, mm-hmm, and and sleep and stuff, and that was kind of our model of a holiday.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: I never wanted to do point-to-point holidays.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: Some people pack up their bags, bikes with all these bags and go off.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, that's a lot, isn't it?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do that.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, I think we might need to go along here because we want to get over the wall in a minute.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, you'll spend your whole holiday just packing and organizing, yeah.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and I and I did I didn't want to do that.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then for other people, it might be um, you know, you just going and doing something completely different on your holiday, but then you go somewhere and you hire bikes for the day, yeah, um, and you do that.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's working out what works for you, yeah.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would also say never compare yourself to the people on uh Instagram who are doing these amazing things for their kids because you don't have to do that, yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: You have to you know work out what works for you, yeah.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Strong strong point, yeah.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it's quite toxic actually, the toxic positivity and toxic happiness, yes, and your joy, yes, and oh I'm doing this and why not you, and it can it can get really, really yeah, what's the word?
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um demoralizing, yeah, and you sort of feel as though you're not good enough, yeah.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and you know, and I always had a thing where it's oh well, I can't talk about holidays, cycling holidays with kids because I never did like proper bikepacking, yeah.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like I used to go to places and we used to, you know, we did hundreds of you know not hundreds, but loads and loads of holidays, yeah.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um that uh you know involved riding our bikes.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say that that's what cycling's given us.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's given us that common bond that we could then base our holiday around.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's a really important thing for me.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was cycling, but it could have easily been something else, you know.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like walking, or you could be massively into art galleries, or you could be massively into you know swimming, or yeah, whatever it is, you know, have that thing that you all get passionate about, yeah, and then you can build your holidays, your weekends, your evenings, anything around it, yeah.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you kind of hope that then the kids come, you know, take that through their life with them, yeah, and you've got that common bond.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't always work, doesn't always work, and you're building core memories, aren't you?
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the key thing, yeah.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's lovely.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: We were gonna talk about, or I wanted to talk to you about um tips for Christmas presents.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I'm bumping you up the list now.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I'm gonna move you to 2028.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um people are looking for Christmas presents, yeah.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: Cycling related for kids.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just looking for the wall where we need to get.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think we've come to it yet.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where is that?
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, it's okay, it's we're going down to those buildings, so it's a little bit further.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be talking so much and then miss the miss the quite common.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I get taken on the walk because I'm so distracted with the conversation, it's very self-serving.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Christmas presents.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, let me do my lead-in again then.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would you recommend for people looking for cycling-related Christmas presents?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I'm obviously biased, but I do think a bike is like the best Christmas present you can buy a kid.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's timeless, you know.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: You have all these every year, what's the fad present, you know.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: And but actually, if you give a kid a bike, their eyes just light up.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just amazing.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're giving them is you're giving them a way to get off screens, a way to get fit and exercise, healthy, yeah, outside, have some fresh air.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's a gift, it's not just gonna last you know a few days after Christmas, it's gonna be a proper, you know, year-round present if you choose correctly.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, my advice is to buy a bike that is built as a bike by a reputable bike manufacturer, not something that looks like a toy.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, what lots of parents and grandparents do is they go to a shop or a catalogue, yeah, and they go, Oh, my granddaughter loves frozen, I'll buy a frozen bike, or oh, they love Spider-Man, I'll buy a Spider-Man bike.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: And these bikes are just built as toys, right?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they have a different, they have different standards that well, they meet or don't meet, yeah.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they'll have plasticky brakes that won't stop the bike, they'll be ridiculously heavy, they'll have like streamers and baskets and all these silly things on that they don't need.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right, how do we get over here?
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't usually come this way, I usually go round, but it's steeper.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought with it with the heat and the my burning legs.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just thinking though, no, we want to be on that side of the wall, so we've not got to it yet.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, because this is nice and flat, you see.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um oh that's so thoughtful of you.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's more you don't you cannot bear the moaning anymore.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a give her an excuse.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so I'm just looking, we come down and I think we go over.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're popping out just onto the right hand side of those buildings.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to be on the other side for the wall.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're okay.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've lost all bearings because I'm not I'm not concentrating on where we're going.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so enjoying our chat.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh yeah, so back to Christmas.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: Don't fall into the fads and yeah, don't fall into the sort of the toy, the toy bikes.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um don't buy a bike for your child to grow into.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people do this.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: They go, Oh, I'm not buying one, you know, not paying that, you know, it's it's expensive, so um, I'll buy one that's two sizes too big and then they'll grow into it.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_00: And trying to like the school units.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you wouldn't buy a child's pair of shoes that's two sizes too big, and you know, there'd be time to go for a you know, running around in it.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: Slippers, yeah.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's really scary if you end up here.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_00: We go, here's the slip.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the screen.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um we um yeah, so buy one that fits them and they can ride because if you if you put a child on a bike that's too big, yeah, and then they ride it and they can't stop and they can't get their feet down, yeah, they're gonna be really scared, yeah, and then they'll associate that feeling with the bike, they'll put them off, and then even when they fit the bike, yeah, they're not gonna want to ride it because they'll be like, oh no, that's a scary thing, yeah.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_00: So and just climbing the wall and actually could prevent them from from doing it, yeah, and what a travesty that was.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and then you've spent the money on a bike, yeah, and trying to save money, yeah, and then that you're not actually getting value for money because it's never used, yeah.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'd also say um, you know, if you can't afford a new bike, then there's loads of second hand ones.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, yeah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um kids obviously grow really quickly, yeah.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know, and they don't care, and you can pick a really good brand, yeah, and then you can usually get a second hand model that's you know, as long as it's been looked after, yeah.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: Fraction of the cost, and then if you look after it, you can sell it back on again at the end.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these bikes are built to last.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so those are my main top tips, and don't anything that's too complicated.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, like a hundred of gears and loads of suspension and all this sort of stuff, yeah.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: Look to see is it really good quality and does your child need it?
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because it's just complexity that adds weight, it adds the chance it goes wrong, yeah, it adds you know, it makes it more difficult for them to ride.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, and it's another thing that might put them off.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then if you want to encourage them to ride, then little accessories are good.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you could get them a pair of cycling gloves, a pair of cycling, you know, shorts or a top or something to make them feel cool.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then things like helmets and lights and bells and baskets and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you can add the embellishments, don't buy it with the embellishments.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I've we always say that, yeah.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you want tassels, buy a decent bike and put tassels on it.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: Don't buy a bad bike just because it's got tassels.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then, and then the sort of the practicality as well, just have a think if you're buying a bike, yeah.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um oh, and the other thing is stabilize if your child can't ride a bike and they're never they're they're little and it's gonna be their first bike, think about getting them a balanced bike first.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, before stabilizers, yeah, or don't use stabilizers because um stabilizers turn a bike into a trike because you're putting two wheels at the back, yeah.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it turns it into like a completely different experience, yeah.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it removes any need to balance because the stabilizers are taking the wobble out, so you're not learning, so you're not just learning.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and what you're actually doing is that you you actually have to steer in the completely the opposite way with a trike.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_00: So as you're going around corners, you can't go around corners very fast with stabilizers anyway.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_00: So a balanced bike is a bike with no pedals, yeah, and the kids can just scoot along on it and they learn to steer, they learn to stop, yeah.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they learn to go a bit faster, they learn to get on and off it.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we've got a bit of mud here.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it looks pretty solid.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then um because it's been so hot just today.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then when they're ready to move on to pedals, they've got all the skills they need apart from the pedaling.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_00: So then all they have to do is worry about oh, how do I pedal this thing?
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a really good tip.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that tip's really important for adults as well.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and it do you know what you can get, um you can get balanced bikes up to about 20-inch wheels.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if your child's most balanced bikes, I mean the majority if you go into a shop will have 12-inch wheels, okay.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they're about a three-year-old.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if your child's a bit older and they haven't learned, you can get balanced bikes that keep going up to the um sizes.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we've got guides to those on the website.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you can, I think you can get there's one brand, I'm not sure they're still doing it, who do adult balance bikes, but you could also get an adult bike and take the pedals off, right?
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't learned if you haven't learnt and you're trying, you know, you're an adult, then um you're removing that extra pressure, yeah.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: Removing the pedals, you can learn and scoot around and do the same thing.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a great idea.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: There's a few things you need to know.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we have got we've got a website an article on the website as well about taking the pedals off, making sure you put them all back on the right way and all that sort of stuff.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so it's worth just checking before you do it because you don't want to ruin ruin your bike.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um it's uh it's it's really good.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes when you're the older you are, the more nervous sometimes you can be if you yeah, if you've if you're an adult and you haven't learnt to bide, it's a bit like skiing or other things, isn't it?
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_00: You can just do it without fear.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're older, you're going, Oh yeah, fearful of everything.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be fearful of walking, so just from moving from a city to walking in a fell is so different.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love your story because you were like most people come to the late district because they want to walk, you go to the late district not liking walking and now looking in.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's weird, isn't it?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not even knowing.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the walking thing I think I always did in London, but walking in a fellow is so different.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to actually raise your feet.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like what you can't wear heels, yeah, you have to just actually walk it, yeah, step over things and uh and think, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Watch constantly watch where you're going.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's what I love so much about it, is it's so mindful.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and then you start doing it by default.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Did you find walking in London was mindful?
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or did you mindful in the sense that I was so determined not to get on a train?
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I was motivated by that, yeah.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and in terms of dodging people, I guess.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not so much in terms of it was still busy, so I think so.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: I guess the biggest difference is when I'm walking in the fells, my nervous system is regulated.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Over there, it wasn't to regulate my nervous system, right?
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it was being busy for busy sake sometimes, and you're walking fast for the sake of being in a fast environment.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, and so I don't know how good that is for us, but um, I did notice when I moved to Kendall the first two years I put on loads of weight because I wasn't walking.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we worked out I didn't actually know how to walk.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I used to work, I used to live in London as well.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um I rode my bike in London, so it was very different.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but it was a very you know, cycling in London is a totally different experience than cycling, you know, around here, yeah.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, it is um yeah, I certainly would not have called that mindful in the slightest.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think um also like it was like cycling here on the roads, I think it's pretty scary looking.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Cycling on the roads here.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um it can well it depends where you go.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but we're just coming up to a road now, yeah.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is weirdly exciting because I've never walked before they're so quick, aren't they?
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_00: It is a yeah, after this one, yeah.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: There we go, and then we pop out at this little industrial estate, it's got all lots of little businesses in, which is uh it would be nice if they built a bridge, but they haven't done yet.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they just yeah, if they had a foot bridge, it'd be perfect.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, we were talking about adult and Christmas presents, yeah.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was gonna ask you about you know, what do you buy a child that already has a bike?
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you said about the accessories, yeah, the accessories and things like that.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's a lot of books about cycling as well, and yeah, finding an age-specific book that features people who are cycling, yeah.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what about experiences?
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's or is there not much out there?
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's you could do it depends if you want to spend money or not, because you could say oh, your present is to go to this trail centre and ride these trails.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there are some places called bike parks where if your child is really good, right, at mountain biking where you have to pay to go.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so like we go, we've been a couple of times to a place called Bike Park Wales, okay, which is amazing, but that is an expensive day out, and you're paying because then they have an uplift service, so you ride downhill and then they part your bike uphill for you, so you're just doing the thumb bear.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there's things like that, or you could, I don't know if they're into cycle racing, you could go to the Vellodrome if there's anything.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether there's anything coming up for that sort of thing, but generally cycling is a pretty free to access thing, you know, it's a bit like going on a walk, isn't it?
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you you don't need to you don't need to pay necessarily to do it.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes kids love time with you, so yeah, it depends on how materialistic they are that saying okay, we're gonna go and do this thing together, yeah.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think kids value value you spending time with them, yeah.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, and then there's another age where they can't wait to get away from you, so that's you depends on how old your child is on that one, I have to say.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess you could do like a a voucher for time or a cycle challenge together.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like have you.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_00: You'd have to know your kid as to whether or not they're yeah, yeah, obviously not.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then for older kids, things like tech, you know, you've just mentioned Garmin, you know, something like that that measures what they're doing.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or a heart rate monitor, or uh you know, um I mean I always find it quite fun to see what my heart rate is.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still alive, Karen.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of like, oh, I can feel that I'm without breath.
• 1:15:06
  unknown: I know.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_00: It really depends, and you know, you know, everybody knows their own child.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I found as mine got older they become much more uh specific in what they like, yeah.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than uh me just being able to choose.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because they're they're developing in their own minds, yeah.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and my my youngest doesn't, you know, doesn't ride a bike very much at all at all anymore, you know.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh okay, yeah.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's going through I'm hoping he'll come back to it at some point, yeah.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_00: But um he's been a much more teen sport person.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas my eldest absolutely loves cycling, so yeah, cool.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's some really good ideas there.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right then.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Karen.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's been amazing.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've really enjoyed that.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's been brilliant.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're both puffing, yeah.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we're going uphill.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've really enjoyed that, and just so interesting to learn about your journey because actually this isn't something that you grew up wanting to do, it's come completely left field out of the experience.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Accidental, I think.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and some of the best things happen that way.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're uh I'm I call myself an accidental whatever.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_00: What am I?
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: Entrepreneur, yeah.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Till the next time in about 15 years.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've got to hold me accountable, are you?
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna come up Are you still doing the thing?
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what did you do?
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: What happened?
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_00: But that means you've got to keep doing the podcast for a later time.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it holds us both accountable.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't it?
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, mate.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Wonderful, thank you.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_00: A huge thanks to Karen G for joining me on that walk through Serpentine Wood and for sharing so candidly her inspiring story.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to learn more about family cycling, check out Cycles Frog online.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's an absolute treasure trove of practical advice, reviews and inspiration.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_00: For this season, I have partnered with a local band called Persimmon.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_00: They are inspired by the current UK jazz scene and love making music that's fresh, vibrant, and accessible while speaking directly to audiences.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_00: They've put their own spin on well-loved jazz and Neo Soul classics, and their next era sees them shifting their focus to produce more original music and discovering their unique sound.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's show them some love by following them on Instagram or YouTube using the handle at BandCalled Simon.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed this episode, please don't keep it to yourself.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Leave me a review.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_00: It takes just a minute and honestly makes such a difference in helping others find the podcast.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And share this episode with someone who needs to hear Karen's story.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's a friend thinking about starting their own business, a parent wanting to get their kids on a bike or looking for a good present, or someone who just needs a reminder that it's okay to not have everything figured out.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Keep up to date by following us on socials.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Links are in the show notes.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, keep walking, keep talking, and remember, some of the best things in life happened completely by accident.