Latest / Hey Docs! / The Importance of Long-Term Vision and Planning in Real Estate

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The Importance of Long-Term Vision and Planning in Real Estate · Hey Docs!

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Haydocks Podcast with your host Jill Allen. Today,
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  Speaker 1: I am thrilled to have Steven Strecker from Tower Reality
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Partners on for an episode. Stephen will be sharing insights
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: into the process of working with a commercial real estate broker,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the impact of space size on costs, and the pitfalls
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: of taking on too much or too little space. He'll
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: also provide his top tips for those starting their real
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: estate journey. This episode is full of gold nuggets of wisdom.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Let's get into it, hay Docks. When it comes to marketing,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I keep hearing that you're frustrated and that you don't
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: know what you're paying for or even if your marketing
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: efforts are working. Are you wondering what your next marketing
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: move should be. I would suggest to contact Mary kay
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Miller and her team at Kaleidoscope with their free digital
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: marketing audit. You will get answers and solutions to your
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: biggest marketing questions.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Go to contact kal.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Dot com to request your free digital marketing audit today.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: When it comes to.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Websites, SEO and digital advertising, you don't know what you
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: don't know till you know find out what you don't
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: know today that's contact kl dot com. All right, Steven,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to have you on Haydocs with me.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: This is going to be fun.
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  Speaker 1: Some of my favorite topics are, you know, talking about
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  Speaker 1: real estate and lending and you know, some of the things.
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  Speaker 2: That just all of our doctors.
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  Speaker 1: I know, every time I have an episode like this,
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  Speaker 1: everyone's on the edge of their seat like, Okay, what's
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: she going to talk about this time? And what's the
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: guest going to have to say? So I'm wondering if
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  Speaker 1: you wouldn't mind just to start us off. I always
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  Speaker 1: love it if you can just kind of give us
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  Speaker 1: a little bit of history on yourself, who you are,
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  Speaker 1: how you started Tower Reality Partners, and just kind of
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: go from.
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  Speaker 2: There with us.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great. I started Tower Realty Partners in twenty
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  Speaker 3: seventeen and really wanted it to be a focus just
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  Speaker 3: on helping doctors get the best solution for their real
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  Speaker 3: estate needs. It was kind of like I came from
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  Speaker 3: another company and it was felt like it was a
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  Speaker 3: little bit more pushed through the system, and really what
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  Speaker 3: I wanted to do is understand exactly what the doctor
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: were wanting and help provide them the best solutions. So
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  Speaker 3: I started that in twenty seventeen in Denver, Colorado, and
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  Speaker 3: I loved living here and love the outdoors and all that,
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: so it's been a perfect place to live. Started working
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: more kind of with doctors all over the United States
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  Speaker 3: because we really realized that, like it didn't have to
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: be in this territory in order to help people find
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  Speaker 3: the best options. Mainly, it came down to a lot
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: of the things that I'm sure we're going to talk
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: about today and be in space and all that.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, and great, that's great, And of course you're
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  Speaker 1: right here in my backyard, so I love that. And
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: you just talk about the mountains are being outdoors and
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: that just makes my heart seeing anyways, because as you know,
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  Speaker 1: I love all of that as well. So I definitely
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: want to just kind of jump right in and talk
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: about kind of this process that every doctor is going
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: to have to go through if they are going to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: do a startup. Even with acquisitions, you're going to have
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: to renegotiate leases a lot of times, or even to
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: some extent if you get into partnerships. At some point,
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  Speaker 1: if you are leasing, you're going to have to deal
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: with my leases up and what are we going to
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: do next? So I want to really talk about let's
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: focus a little bit more on startups right now, because
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  Speaker 1: that's that's where We've got a lot of docs that
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  Speaker 1: are you know that listen to this podcast, that's kind
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: of where they're at. But I'm wondering if you can
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  Speaker 1: just talk to us a little bit about what it
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  Speaker 1: looks like when somebody says, Okay, I think I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to move down this path start looking at real estate,
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  Speaker 1: and I need to get a commercial broker on my team,
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  Speaker 1: because that's something I definitely advocate for with all of
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  Speaker 1: my clients and like, never never, never do this on
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  Speaker 1: your own. You need somebody who understands these contracts and whatnot.
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  Speaker 1: So can you kind of talk to us just a
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  Speaker 1: little bit about what somebody could expect when they start
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  Speaker 1: moving down this path?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think starting with the end in
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  Speaker 3: mind is probably the most important. Is trying to understand
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  Speaker 3: exactly what you want your practice to look like ten, fifteen,
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  Speaker 3: twenty years down the road, and then being able to
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  Speaker 3: start to kind of put that picture together. So when
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  Speaker 3: you're talking to commercial real estate broker, starting to put
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  Speaker 3: the team together, that there's some picture of what you're
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  Speaker 3: trying to achieve. I think that that's one of the
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  Speaker 3: most important parts. Whenever I start to work with somebody,
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  Speaker 3: my first goal is really to try to understand what
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  Speaker 3: they're wanting, necessarily what they've been told, but like, ultimately,
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  Speaker 3: like what do you want it to look like? You know,
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  Speaker 3: do you want to eventually own your real estate? I
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  Speaker 3: think that's an important one. Or do you want to
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  Speaker 3: have multiple practices or have you thought about just having
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  Speaker 3: one big practice or an efficient practice? What do you
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  Speaker 3: also want your lifestyle to look like? And so I
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  Speaker 3: think at that point then you kind of cater the
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  Speaker 3: real estate to match that part. I think that's kind
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  Speaker 3: of where we start.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure, And it's such good information and
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  Speaker 1: it's really difficult. I think a lot of times for
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  Speaker 1: younger docs or docs that are just entering into this
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  Speaker 1: space of okay, like this is a big commitment.
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  Speaker 2: Usually we're talking a ten year lease. There's a lot
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  Speaker 2: of money.
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  Speaker 1: Involved in it, and they're just like, I just need
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  Speaker 1: to get to opening my practice. You know, how can
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  Speaker 1: I think about where I want to be in eight
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  Speaker 1: years or ten years or twelve years or twenty years.
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  Speaker 1: But I love that advice because that is so true,
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  Speaker 1: Like it's better to slow down and think about it
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  Speaker 1: and talk about it and at least say it, you know, like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I have kind of thought about I like that idea
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  Speaker 1: of building my portfolio, and I like the idea of
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  Speaker 1: maybe having some property in it. Could it be my
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  Speaker 1: practice property that could go into that, or I've got
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  Speaker 1: this site in mind. Later on, I want to build
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  Speaker 1: a practice, but right now I just want to get
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  Speaker 1: my practice up and growing or whatnot. So I love
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  Speaker 1: it that you guys take that approach. That's definitely something
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  Speaker 1: we have to think about. So when we kind of
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  Speaker 1: start moving down this road and you've had those discussions
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  Speaker 1: and you're like, Okay, I've got a vision for where
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  Speaker 1: you're at. I know a lot of times, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I start with my clients when you get them from me,
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  Speaker 1: we've done demographics. We kind of have an idea the space,
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  Speaker 1: you know, the area that we want to be. I
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  Speaker 1: think the big thing is we start thinking about, okay, well,
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  Speaker 1: what's the size space that we want, and then what's
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  Speaker 1: the cost going to look like? Because I think you
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  Speaker 1: and I can both say you know, having been doing
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  Speaker 1: this for a while now, I feel like there's the
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  Speaker 1: pre COVID and then the post COVID, you know, and
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  Speaker 1: it is such a different market out there. So I'm
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  Speaker 1: wondering if you can, you know, just kind of talk
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  Speaker 1: to us about what you're seeing in regard to costs
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  Speaker 1: and how the size of a space affects that and whatnot,
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  Speaker 1: especially for where we're at. We'll just we'll kind of
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  Speaker 1: call this out for twenty twenty four, what you're seeing going,
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  Speaker 1: you know, looking ahead maybe at twenty twenty five and beyond.
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  Speaker 3: That's a great question because I think like what we're
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  Speaker 3: seeing right now with the way interest rates construction costs
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  Speaker 3: are are affecting the lease rates dramatically because no landlord
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  Speaker 3: wants to lease space and lose money, even though that
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  Speaker 3: maybe in a down market. But what they're what they're
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  Speaker 3: not doing is they're not just giving the way, they're
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  Speaker 3: not giving away the real estate for free. So it's
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  Speaker 3: kind of like we're cut in this We're kind of
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  Speaker 3: cut in this weird market where construction costs really high,
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  Speaker 3: interest rates are high for the landlords to own the property.
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  Speaker 3: And so we're seeing probably across the United States you know,
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  Speaker 3: landlords holding pretty firm on higher prices, and so space
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  Speaker 3: and the size really does matter. I mean, as we're
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  Speaker 3: looking at it, everything comes down to making sure you
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  Speaker 3: have a team of experts that can understand what the
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  Speaker 3: budget is that we're trying to work inside. And a
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  Speaker 3: lot of times that budget dictates backwards the size of
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  Speaker 3: the space we're going to get. You know, in Seattle,
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  Speaker 3: you'll you'll spend three hundred and fifty dollars a square
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  Speaker 3: foot and Denver it's two hundred and fifty dollars square foot,
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  Speaker 3: and so just to build out an office, and depending
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  Speaker 3: upon how much money you have, really dictates the size
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  Speaker 3: of the space. And especially when we start to look
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  Speaker 3: at being in prime areas, if you want to be
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  Speaker 3: in the prime area, a lot of times you're going
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  Speaker 3: to pay a premium for that real estate. And so
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  Speaker 3: then it becomes a chess board where you're trying to
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  Speaker 3: move pieces around to fit the budget into the space,
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  Speaker 3: and so sometimes you end up with a smaller space
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  Speaker 3: in order to be in the area you want. That's
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  Speaker 3: probably the best way to think about it. Yeah, and
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  Speaker 3: then other times you can if you're willing to be
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  Speaker 3: in an area or a center maybe that wasn't as prime,
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  Speaker 3: you could probably take on a little bit more space.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And what I think is, you know, to your point,
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  Speaker 1: it seems so counterintuitive right now where you hear that
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  Speaker 1: there's so much real estate out there, But what I'm
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  Speaker 1: always telling my docs is, yeah, there are may be
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  Speaker 1: lots of like ten and fifteen thousand square foot spaces
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  Speaker 1: out there, you know, these big spaces, but there is
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  Speaker 1: not a lot of fifteen hundred to twenty five hundred
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  Speaker 1: square foot spaces. And that's kind of our sweet spot
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  Speaker 1: right in our industry when we're looking at I have
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  Speaker 1: docs ask me all the time, Jill, you know, like
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  Speaker 1: if I'm talking to my commercial broker, what should I
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  Speaker 1: be looking for? And I'm always like, the fifteen hundred
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  Speaker 1: is kind of our low end, twenty five hundred's kind
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  Speaker 1: of our high end. I mean, we've got a little
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: bit of wiggle room on both sides, but that's kind
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  Speaker 1: of our sweet spot. But man, trying to find that
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: out there just in general is really tough. And I
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  Speaker 1: think you could speak to this too. It's taking a
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: while to find spaces also, so like we find them
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  Speaker 1: and then we're like, oh geez, you know, the rent
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: is crazy high, or it isn't in a good look
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: or whatnot. And I'm wondering if you can even you know,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: if you've got any insight on that. I mean, I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: am always to tell my docs, like, be patient, it's
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: not going to happen overnight. And it's not like it
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: was again pre COVID. It's totally totally different market. But
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: what are you seeing as far as about how long
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: it's taking docs. I just know it's significantly longer. I
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: don't know if you've even got a number for that for.
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  Speaker 3: Me, Yeah, it's definitely taking a lot longer than it
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: used to. And I always tell people from the time
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  Speaker 3: we start having an initial conversation, I would honestly plan
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: about six months, yeah, before a lease is signed, and
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: we'd all like it to take a lot less than that.
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  Speaker 3: And sometimes it does. Sometimes you can move really fast
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  Speaker 3: and it's the right opportunity. It just seems like there
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: is a lot of hurdles as you start the process.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, one of the first things we did is
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: like we have the discovery call and then really what
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: we're going to do is go out and a good
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: commercial real estate brokers are going to go out and
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: look at the market and hopefully at that point you
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: have a demographic study done and then we're going to
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: find the options. We're going to look at about six
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: seven properties, try to narrow it down to one or
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: two that really makes sense, and then at that point
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: you start negotiating. You start to kind of see where
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: the landlord's at and what they're willing to do. You
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: find out that the rent's really expensive. You know that
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: they're not going to give you any concessions or they
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: don't want to give you free rent, and you try
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: to massage the deal in order to make it work
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: for what we need. But that process takes a long time.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: And then once the lease is drafted, it's like that
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: that whole process takes a while as well. And so
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: it's always one of those things where we go into
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: it with intentions of doing it quickly and it seems like,
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: no matter what, the process has just taken a lot
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: lot longer. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just want to say this out to
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: all my listeners out there, don't put a target on
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: your commercial brokers back because usually they're doing all that
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: they can to push that forward, and they are looking
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: and they are there are just times where sometimes we've
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: got an abundance of spaces and other times there's just nothing.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: And it also has to do with if you think
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: about a lot of times, commercial leases are longer leases,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: So when are the leases coming up to when are
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: things going to become available? And I'm going to echo
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: exactly what you said. I'm definitely seeing it's taking us now.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I used to say, you know, from getting going two
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: doors open, it took six months. Now I tell all
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: my docks we're probably looking at six to twelve months
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: from the time we start the process to the time
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: your doors are open, because there's just so many variables
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: that we're looking at.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I want to switch gears just.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: A second, and I'm going to circle back around to
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: just us talking about that rent is a little bit
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: more expensive in what we're seeing right now, and that
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: it's just harder in general for us to find those spaces.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: But one of the misconceptions that I hear all the
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: time from my docks is well, if I get a
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: smaller space, it's going to cost me less.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, and I know you.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: Aren't in the construction side of it, but I know
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: that you know where I'm going with this that yes,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: we may not pay as much per square foot, but
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the buildout costs are not always that much less.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Do you mind speaking to that.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I know I'm kind of throwing you a curveball, kind
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of asking a question that is maybe a little outside
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of your scope. But I feel like commercial brokers, you
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: guys have to deal with this a lot where like, yeah,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: you're getting a smaller space, but it doesn't necessarily mean
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: that your costs are going to be so much lower
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: in the buildout, which is usually that next thing that
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with in a budget.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Yep, I love it because I try to take that
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: holistic approach. I mean, I think part of our job
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: in order to you know, working with you has been
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: great because it's like when we look at working with
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: a doctor, It's like you can't just look at one
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: aspect of it. You have to look at the whole process.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: And honestly, this is probably the biggest piece that affects
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: a deal getting done or not. And like I mentioned,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: the lender is typically going to give you a certain
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: budget to work within, but cost per square foot, the
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: smaller the space you take, you are taking all of
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: the things architecture. You're taking the plumbing and the electricity,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: and the dry wall and the flooring. You're taking all
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: of those same subs that would normally sometimes go into
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: like a twenty five hundred square foot space, and you're
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: taking their time and they're putting them into a smaller space.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: So the economies of scale go way down. So all
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: of a sudden, you take a fifteen hundred square foot
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: space and say your market is two hundred dollars a
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: square foot for construction that's usually based on an average
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: demo size is probably two thousand square feet. But you
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: take that and you put it into fifteen hundred, all of
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: a sudden, you may go up to two hundred and
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: sixty dollars a square Footcuse you're taking those same things
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: and you're just putting it in there. Even though you're
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: using less materials, your cost for square foot doesn't necessarily
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: go down at that same rate. So that's where I
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: think we end up seeing those budgets where you're like, Okay,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: we took a smaller space, but we really maybe didn't
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: save that much money. Yes, And then I think, too,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: you know, kind of what you're going at too, is
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: this is sometimes we don't have the ability to take
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: more space right now, but sometimes it is more important
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: to say, like, hey, look what if we took fifteen
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: hundred square feet, We make that work. You build it
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: out in a way that hopefully we can maybe get
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: the tenants space next door, maybe expand at a different
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: time after a few years of being profitable. That's something
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: we definitely try to look at.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'd love that you're saying that because that
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: kind of takes me into my next thought. But I'm
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: definitely seeing that we're being very creative right now with
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: kind of taking what we've got. Again, we don't have
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: an abundance market right now. Again, I would say pre COVID,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: we kind of had our pick and choose, Like you know,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: we had so many options out there. Now we're just
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: praying that we have four good options out there. And
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: so I love I love it that you are thinking
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: about that, because you know in docs, that's what I
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: want you to hear too, is there are always options.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: And I know I've done just recently a lot of
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: offices where maybe we've taken a bigger space. We didn't
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: need that big of a space, but we didn't build
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: it out right away, or we've taken a smaller space
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: and we've planned on the front end. Okay, if we
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: were able to move into our neighbor's space, how do
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: we design this so that if we were to pop
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: a wall, how do we build into it? And so
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I love that you're also thinking about that and kind
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: of talking about that with docs. I'm curious if you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: can kind of talk about that and then just also
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: maybe what are some of the pitfalls that you see
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: when docs are either going too small or too big
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: with their spaces. I know you kind of talked about
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: cost a little bit, but any other thoughts on that.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. One thing I was going to say too, is well,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: well you were just talking. It was like making sure
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: that you understand every doctor understands to everything in commercial
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: real estate is negotiable. You can negotiate the rate is
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: one thing. You can negotiate how much free rent the
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: landlord's going to give you, and sometimes you know, and
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: then there's also what we call a tenant improvement allowance,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: which is the money the landlord's giving you. But sometimes,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: like to your point, Jill, is if you take a
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: bigger space, maybe you only pay rent on half of
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: the space for a couple of years. Even though you're
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: taking the whole thing, there's really different ways to get
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: creative on it. And if you have a good commercial
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: real estate broker who understands that you really should be
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: able to kind of make a deal work. And it
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: takes two parties. It takes the tenant's willingness to go
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: down that road and it takes a landlord that's willing
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: to work with you. So you don't always find that situation,
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: but everything is negotiable. Back to your original point though
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: your question about the size, I definitely think that taking
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: too small of a space can really hurt you because
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: you're limited then by your production. I mean, that's typically
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: the number one thing I hear from doctors is that
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: I ran out of space. I wish I would have
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: taken more space. If that's not an option, then you
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: have to do the best you can there and hopefully
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: we can expand. Taking too much space is also dangerous
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: because as a startup, cash flow is everything and you
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: just want to make sure you're limiting and minimizing your
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: expenses as you're starting up. So I feel like some
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: time I'm taking too much space in building out an office.
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's not being super efficient, could be a little
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: bit dangerous, but really working with good architects and yourself
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: to minimize that makes a big difference. So we don't
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: usually see that, but as a startup taking in more
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: than twenty five hundred square feet kind of as it
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: kind of seems to be a little bit dangerous, I guess.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: Or on the big side, yeah for sure.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Are you ready to revolutionize your orthodonic practice and retainer program?
• 18:28
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  Speaker 1: sweet because every Smile deserves a Suite of excellence. And
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  Speaker 1: this is something that I talk to dos a lot about.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Is just kind of like you were saying, you got
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: to kind of think about your future. You know, what
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: are you going to want to do what's your in
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: game for it. We want to be thinking about that
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: even for the way we practice within our practices. So
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: right now I'm talking to docs a lot about Okay,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: there's never a better time to implement digital systems.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: And I think if.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: We are looking at more aligners and more custom treatment
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: and this set and the other and more of our
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I'll call it shared chair time.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: If we can be efficient.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: With how often we're bringing patients back, and we can
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: think about where do we make money in the office,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: we make money in our consult rooms and the ability
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: for us to get starts. So if we're thinking about
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: that even in the design of the space, if we
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: are taking a smaller space, what that's doing for us
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to saying Okay, I know for sure I have to
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: have X amount of consult rooms. I suggest too, we
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: may be able to have less chairs. But if I've
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: got the right treatment modality is going in my office,
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: it's going to allow me to maybe not grow out
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: of my space too soon, where maybe some of the
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: ways we have been doing orthodonics in the past has
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: been able to do that. So I love that you're
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: thinking about that too, because all of that is you know,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: is really the key and you can't know the future
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: for sure, but if we can think about it on
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the front end, it really makes.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: A big difference.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: True. True.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: So let's I'm wondering if we can just talk a
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: little bit about some of the key phrases and things
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: that docs should be paying attention to in leases. So
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: we talk about TI and we talk about free rent,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: and we talk about cam charges, and you know, it's
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: like it's like all these acronyms and different things that
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: most people are like, I got nothing for it, you know,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know, I don't know what that means.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And then kind of how that plays into everything. So
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering, I know we're going to just take it
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: back like super basic, but since I've got an expert on,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: we might as well talk about it. So can you
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: talk about some of those key points what they mean,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: and then what you as a broker are doing, Like
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: why is it important for us to have free rent?
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I know why it's important, but why is it important
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: for us to have tenanted improvement allowance and some of
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: those things.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the common thing you're going to hear a lot
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: are the tis, you know, I get people in my
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: car and we're driving around, we're looking at spaces, and
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: I'll just start talking about the tis and the cams
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: and the triple nets, and then I'll be thinking about it,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, wait a second, Like I don't know
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: if you're if you're grasping what I'm saying, or let
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: me just start over. Let me just like start from
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: the basics. So I kind of think doing that right
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: now might be good. You know, tenant improvement allowance. When
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: we're negotiating out a deal, we're really looking to get
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: a tenant improvement allowance, which is the landlord's giving us money. Basically,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: you're building in a certain amount of money to invest
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: in us or you as a doctor as you're building
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: out your space. So that's anywhere from I mean, we're
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: really low end. You may see twenty dollars a square
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: foot and most of everything is based on a square
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: foot number and commercial real estate, and typically it's on
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: an annual basis, and so usually what we're seeing is like, okay,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: so twenty dollars is really low. We just did a
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: deal actually with one of your clients. I think we
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: got one hundred and one hundred and twenty one hundred
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: and twenty five dollars square foot, So it was great, yeah,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: and we needed next is an expensive area. But it's like, again,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: everything's negotiable, and so then you take that number and
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: you multiply, it tightens your square footage and that's what
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: they're giving you. So some of these checks are multiple
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of dollars. And then we're also negotiating
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: out the free rent part and the free rent part.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Like the way I always want to look at it
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: is I want it in two separate sections. So I
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: want free rent while we're doing construction. Then I want
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: free rent ones reopen for business. And the reason we
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: do that is because a lot of times there's delays
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: that maybe the landlord causes, and so we can sometimes
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: renegotiate that during the process and go back to them
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: and say like, hey, look, you didn't deliver the space,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: you didn't hold up to you're in, so therefore you're
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: not going to start charging this rent yet. And what
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: we've started doing too is trying to tie that to
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: permitting because like in Denver, for instance, it's like it
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: can take you four or five months to see your
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: permits and so we don't want our free rent for
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: construction getting eaten up just becau as we're waiting for
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: the city to get back to us. So we've really
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: since COVID try to get creative on how we've negotiated
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: out this part. And then you have your free rent
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: once you start construction. When you're looking at a space,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: you have two numbers. Typically you'll have your base rent,
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: which is the number that is very negotiable, So we'll
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: call twenty dollars a square foot as the base rent.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: And then you'll have what's called the triple nets, and
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: the triple nets or your taxes, your insurance, and then
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: your comminary maintenance, your cams, and basically the landlord takes
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: the total expenses over the building and they divide it
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: up proportionate share. So if you're occupying ten percent of
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: the building, you're paying ten percent of those taxes and
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: those insurance, and ten percent of the comminary maintenance, which
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: is in Colorado it's a snow removal. Other places that
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: may be blowing the leaves and watering the lawn, but
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: you're paying that. You're paying your proportionate share for the
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: parking lot, and that's most common. Most orthodonics go into
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: retail spaces, so that's going to be mostly triple net leases.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: There's always the caveat where you have you might be
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: in a medical office building or professional building. Sometimes those
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: are a little bit different. But that's kind of the
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: kind of the down and dirty general of kind of
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: the commercial real estate lingo that we'll typically use.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for you know, just kind of talking
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: through that, because I think those are, again these things
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: that nobody really understands, and I go through it a
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: lot with my docs, like why is it so important?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: And I'm so glad that you brought up about the
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: permitting thing. You know, if there's one nugget that I
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: would tell everybody to with whichever broker they're working with,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and I can just tell you across the United States,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: permitting is taking a long time, and we just absolutely
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: hate to see, like you said, we're eating up all
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: of our free rent waiting on something that is completely
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: out of our hands. We have no control over it,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: we can do nothing about it until the city gets
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: back to us. And so if we can how some
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: safeguards in that least for us, it really helps us out.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I'm also wondering if you can talk just a little
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: bit about what you've been seeing with the banks. And
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: for quite a while we had some really hard lids
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: on how much rent we could pay in correlation to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: our loans. There was you know, a percentage, you know,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: or different banks had different things. I'm wondering if you
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: can talk to that at all, any of the changes
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: that you've seen, or just some advice that you give
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: docs and kind of where we're wanting to stay in
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: percentage of rent to what that looks like with your
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: loan where you may have a bank go, I know
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: you want this space, but here's here's going to be
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: an issue that we're going to have. And again, I
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: know banks are everyone's got a little bit of a
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: different lending package. But do you have some generalized things
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: you can talk to about that?
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that. You know, it used to be
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: we used to try to like use a specific number.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: We used to be able to say, like, hey, we
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: want your rent to be about sixty five hundred dollars
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: a month, like kind of all in that was the number,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: and like, you know, it's so rare to see that anymore.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be fabulous if we could get that.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like you know, in certain markets you
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: will still but like it is, for the most part,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: it seems like we're seeing really big numbers and rents
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: of eight thousand, nine ten thousand dollars a month, and
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: that should include your triple net, Like when I try
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: to talk about the rents, it should be all of it,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: because you're really you're only able to negotiate the base
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: rent and the triple nets are a direct pastor. So
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: it's just the actual cost. But you have to look
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: at it from your total monthly expense, and that's how
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: the bank does. And so really what we're seeing is
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: the lenders have actually done a really good job I think,
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: of keeping up with with the market at this point
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: and understanding that dentistry in general is still orthodox, is
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: still such a safe industry, and so they're understanding, like, yep,
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: it just costs more and we need to fluctuate. And
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: so I think they've done a really good job, and
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: a lot of times I've seen it come back to
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: them getting very creative as well, you know, as we're
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: looking to do this, and one of the things that
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: we've done a lot of is trying to be Usually
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: we're looking at the first two or three years of
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: kind of getting the business going on a startup, and
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: a lot of times, you know, we may want the
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: rent to be lower for the first three years and
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: then let it ramp up, you know. That way, it's
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: again cash flow, So maybe you're going to pay a
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: higher premium in the back end of the lease, but
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: at the beginning of the lease we keep it low.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: That seems to work out really well for a lot
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: of the lenders as well. And just kind of being
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: able to have a collaborative relationship with the doctor, the
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: lender yourself and just try to create that package.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And again I'm just going to speak
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to the listeners here. Definitely, if you're working with a broker,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: ask the questions. You have a say so in this,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: and you want everybody working together. And we don't want
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: doctors getting to this point where their business hasn't ramped
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: all the way up yet, you know, because we know
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: it takes a good three years for a startup to
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: really be doing well. And I always tell my docs
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: like you're one through three or your hardest years. If
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: we can get three, we can get to your five.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: You're not worrying about your rent at your five if
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: you've done it right. So it's like you're saying, if
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: we can do anything to massage how that works out,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to give us as much breathing room as we can
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: on the front end, it really will help you in
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: the long run. And I also say, you know, and
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: I know this isn't about banking so much, but I
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: don't worry about.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: It so much once you get going. It's just these
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: first couple of years that are that are just so
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: killer on docks.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: As we're getting going with where things are at right now,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: who knows where we'll be in three years from now,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: but I don't think the bottom is going to fall
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: out anytime soon, like we might hope it would, so
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: as we kind of finish up, I'm wondering if you
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: I don't all have maybe top three pieces of advice
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: that you might give docs out there if they are
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: looking to get going. They're, you know, they're like, Okay,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I think I'm ready, you know, I think I'm ready
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: to do this. What what are some top pieces of
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: advice you give them?
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I definitely think being patient and understanding, like having a
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: realistic expectation on what that process is going to be
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: I think it's so easy to get fatigued through the
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: process where your you know, you start it and then
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: a couple of the spaces that you really want to
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: fall apart. Don't get frustrated, know that that's going to happen.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Don't don't get attached to one space. I also think
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: that asking a lot of questions, making sure that you
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: put a team around you that is open to having questions.
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of times the doctors there
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: first time opening a practice. I mean most people doing
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: a startup it's their first time and maybe it's going
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: to be the only time. And so making sure that
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: you're working with people that you can ask questions. I
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: will educate you through the process, and then I just say,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: try to have a vision of what you want. So
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: as you think about the practice that you want and
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: the practice you know, the understanding like the demographics you
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: want to be in and like the style of practice,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: and being able to articulate that or being able to
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: have even Pinterest pages or something of what you want
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: really does help kind of paint the picture to the
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: team that you're about to put together. Yeah, you can
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: understand the right architect and you can understand the right
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: type of building. Even so, I think that helps a
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: ton when somebody comes to me with a little bit
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: of the vision.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, great advice.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Well, if somebody wants to get a hold of you,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: what is going to be the best way that they
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: can do that?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Because I'm sure your phone is going to be ringing,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: your email is going to be hot.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Love it. No, that's honestly the best way. I think
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: my cell I'm always on it and always on my
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: email and my phone. But my phone is seven two
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: zero three zero eight three two zero zero, and then
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: my email is Steven and it's see phn at Tower
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: dash Brokers dot com.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: So perfect.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Those are the best ways. I mean my website as well.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm always available and happy to talk and
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: even if people just have questions, I'm happy to just
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: kind of be a sounding walk to you. So wherever
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I can do to help.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that, And I know that people are
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: rereaching out. And we'll also have your information in the
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: show notes as well.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: So as you may know.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: The way I like to finish up Haydocs is with
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a little speed round.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: This either makes people excited or nervous.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Are you ready for the speed round challenge?
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: I'm ready alrighty. If you could start any business right now,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: what would it be?
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Something to do with woodworking? Probably so nice?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Love that?
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: What's the best investment you ever made?
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Definitely real estate? Definitely with owning homes.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: How do you handle work related stress?
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: I pace? Yeah. I like to face and walk and
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: just kind of be able to think. I'm an internal processor,
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: so I like to just be able to kind of
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: think through it all.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: So when you look down at your iWatch or your
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Fitbit and you're like, man, I did twenty thousand steps today,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: you know it was a stressful day.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Huh yeah, exactly exactly.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: What's one trend in the industry that you're excited about.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: I definitely think we're seeing more and more availability, and
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: I'm really excited about that. I think it needs to happen,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: and I'm really hoping that we see a lot more
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: really good retail good spaces come available. So I think
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: that's going to happen.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Perfect, all right, And the final one, You're doing great
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: so far. What's the most valuable piece of advice you
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: would give? Someone just starting their career.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I would say. I would
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: say it's probably be patient with yourself. I think that's
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: probably I'm not good at that at all. I get
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: into it and I want it. I want it. I
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: want to be the expert, and I want to be
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: where I should be in ten years right now, and
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: I think it's learning to be patient and understanding that
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: the journey is actually what makes us who we are.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: And so I'd say just be patient and go with
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: the floor.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Perfect.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: I love it well, Steven, thank you so much for
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: being on Haydocks.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: This was awesome.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I know everybody got a ton of information out of
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: this episode. So thanks for spending your time with me
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: on Haydocks today.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: Thank you for having me all right, see yah Sea.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Till next time.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Are you ready to start a practice of your own,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: need a new fresh set of eyes or some advice
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: on your existing practice?
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: If so, reach out.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: To me Jill Allen at www dot practice results dot com.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: If you like what we're doing here on Haydocks and
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: want to hear more of this awesome content, be sure
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: and give us a five star rating on your preferred
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: listening platform and subscribscribe to our show so you never
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: miss an episode. Remember, new episodes drop every Thursday.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: See you next week.