Latest / A Heart That Beats for Home / 23. Ask the Therapist! - Mom Guilt, Shame and Effective Emotional Management Tips with Jody Striker

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23. Ask the Therapist! - Mom Guilt, Shame and Effective Emotional Management Tips with Jody Striker · A Heart That Beats for Home

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hey friends, I'm Nikki Smith, your host here at A Heart that Beats for Home, the podcast where we're ditching filters and diving headfirst into the raw beauty of all things home.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Now, I am no expert when it comes to this whole parenting and marriage dance.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I'm simply a gal who's been riding the mom roller coaster for 22 years and a wife still untangling the mystery of it all 25 years after saying I do.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: My goal is to bring you unapologetically messy and boldly genuine conversations about cultivating strong families.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: We're gonna laugh, possibly cry, and straight talk about the joy and chaos that comes within the four walls that we call home.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: No judgment and certainly no perfection, just real talk from my heart, a heart that beats for home.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Let's dive in.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Hello friends, welcome back to another episode here at A Heart that Beats For Home.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: We are excited to be in full mode summer here in June, kicking off our summer series on parenting and just the four different stages of parenting that we're going to dive into over the next several months.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I know that coming into summer can be an exciting time, as we're loosening up schedules.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: It can also be a stressful time, as we're maybe losing a little bit of control, not having as much time to get things done, but I am just super excited for our guest today.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Jodi is a dear friend.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I was able to meet Jodi when she was single, had no children and was working on her degree, and now I know her as a wife, a mom of three and a super successful licensed therapist who is helping so many amazing people.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: The reason I asked Jodi specifically to kick our series off is we were having a conversation at a dinner together not too long ago where we were having a conversation at a dinner together not too long ago where we were talking just about all the different things that kind of flow into our parenting some shame, some guilt, maybe not even understanding completely how to understand emotions that go into both the children that we're parenting and our own parenting emotions, and I just thought this would be a great way to kick off the summer.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So, jodi, before we go any farther, welcome to the show and just give us a little intro on who you are, a little bit about your family, so our listeners know who they're listening to today.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: This is the first time I've been on a podcast.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: I'm super excited to do this, especially with a good friend.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: That makes it feel even more fun.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: As you said, I am a licensed therapist.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I have been married for almost 11 years and I have three young children, two boys and a girl.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: My oldest son is almost eight, which I cannot believe, and then my second son is five and I have a daughter who's three.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: So we're busy over here, but also learning and growing as we're busy as we're doing life, which is usually how it goes, and I know those are the kinds of things you talk about on this podcast.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and like I said so, jodi actually was when we moved into our home 11 years ago.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: So really things happened quickly for you after we moved in here.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: We moved into our home next door.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: The biggest blessing was the most amazing family with adult children who had kind of come back home after some college and were getting different things underway.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: And so I was a young mom and had three little kids here, a husband that traveled a ton and there were these precious two daughters that were young adults next door, and so we would kind of have a system where I would flash lights or I'd go wave at the window and they would come over, we'd play board games, have a glass of wine or whatever, and just such a sweet time of just friendship.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: And then they both ended up getting married and leaving.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: And here I am, but so fun to watch you guys as you've grown your families and been married and just a cool friendship.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: So we love getting together and catching up.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: But, jodi, let's jump right in specifically to just summer and craziness.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: As a therapist I know that you see a lot and just the guilt and the shame that I think no matter if you're a mom or whatever, how that kind of all plays into summer and now coming in with changing of schedules and a lot of togetherness and a lot of personalities.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: What are just some thoughts that you have on how to make summer an enjoyable time for both parents and children?
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's a great question.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I think some things that are important to understand when you're considering that question are that there's change and even good changes.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Question are that there's change and even good changes.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: We experience a stress in our bodies, in our brains, because part of how we work our brains work so well is being able to do things automatically.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: So we rely on our built-in structure, schedule, regular routine things that we do.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: It allows us to do things automatically, which frees up that executive functioning to handle the other out of the ordinary things.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: So when you transition from the end of a school year into summer, you lose a lot of that natural structure.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Even if you're a homeschooling family, there's still structure around school that you're losing as you go into the summer months.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: And what we often find is if we're not prepared for transition, if we're not prepared for some of those structures to go away and how we might feel, how our people might feel, how we're going to create new structures to support us.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: While in the summer there can be a lot of feelings and we may not always handle them skillfully, and then that can create other feelings, like shame, like guilt, like anxiety, which were some of the things that we were originally talking about that kind of spirited this conversation, but I think it's helpful to recognize, okay, what are the things that have been offering a lot of stability and definition to our family, things that help us to function well and do well, that are going away.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: And then what do we need to put back in?
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Because you don't want to just so structure your summer that you lose the beauty of less structured time, freedom to be spontaneous, to have adventures.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: You know, usually families will take vacations at some point.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: So those are good things and we need those things as we rest, as we play, that allows us to be healthy, and we want to be able to be free enough to receive the benefits from those things.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: But if we abandon too much structure, then often that leads to dysregulation and for moms that often feels like overwhelm.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I'm used to having some time for myself.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I'm used to having time to do the grocery list or, you know, walk on the treadmill.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: I'm used to moments to myself where I can take care of me, and now I'm not sure how to find them.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I'm used to breaks from my children where they are either at school or they're busy doing school.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Now they're there all the time and, depending on how old and how regulated our kids are, they might be making extra demands if they haven't really learned how to regulate themselves.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Well, anytime I'm bored, I'm telling you I'm hungry, or I'm asking what are we doing?
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Where are we going?
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Can I have this person over?
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Or they're thinking well, this means nonstop screen time.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: Right, it's summer, we should be on our devices all day long.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: These are the kinds of things that you'll find yourself in which, again, can be overwhelming if it's just happening to you.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: So I really encourage people think about a plan for the summer and identify what are some things as a family that we want to have happen.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: What are some things for me as a person, as a mom?
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Maybe even have each of your kids identify some things that feel important to them during the summer, because that information can help you strike that balance in terms of where are we going to be free and flexible, because that's going to give us play and authenticity in life and what structures do we really need to function well, because that can be a little bit different for every family, but those might be some helpful questions to think through as you approach the summer.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: I love that analogy of executive functioning, when you just don't think about the things that just naturally happen, and then when you bring all that other stuff in, how that does create stress.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Those are some great suggestions, even simple things like maybe it's that rest hour in the middle of the day where every day of summer, unless we're gone from the house, there's just that hour that we take where everybody goes to their own space, and I think we think with older kids that we can't do those things.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's natural to think that that's a great plan.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: When you have little people.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I have found for myself when I just say like we're all going to read for an hour every afternoon, like everybody just needs to go to their room and be quiet, how just that tiny little bit of structure, it's almost like you have that to look forward to and it's like you know that that rest or that break is coming.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: I do that with my kids we call it quiet rest time and my older child, who's very social, always questions why do we do quiet rest time?
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I don't need quiet rest time.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: And I say, well, actually everybody does need quiet rest time.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: We need a time to reset.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: Some people don't prefer a long time so it doesn't feel as comfortable to them, but all of us need that opportunity to reset our nervous system, our energy level, our physical body.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: It's helpful to take that hour of rest.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, might not want it, but we need it.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: That's a good way of saying.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And isn't it always the kid that's like, no, I don't need, I'm not tired, I don't need to read.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: And you come around the corner five minutes later and they're sound asleep with their book, because they actually indeed were very tired.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Jodi, you and I had talked a little bit about a concept of emotional regulation Very fascinating to me.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I think this kind of ties right into what you were just saying about.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: We don't even always know what we need.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: What is emotional regulation and what does that look like in a family?
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: So I think in general, a lot of people don't understand emotional regulation.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: They either haven't heard of it or they don't really get what it is.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: So when I define emotional regulation, how I like to describe it to people is that all day long we are having feelings, maybe not so high that we recognize them as feelings, but in basically every interaction and every circumstance as we're moving throughout our day, we're experiencing things.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Some may be comfortable, some may be uncomfortable.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: It's very similar, I think, to the physical sensations we experience through the day, like hunger, like thirst, like fatigue.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: I'm hot, I'm cold, and these are things that come up and we respond to them and we carry on our day.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: So emotions are similar.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: We have them, they're occurring.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It might be that light irritation because all of your kids are talking to you again at the same time and you continue to forget what you're typing in your text message because of the constant interruptions.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: It might be you're standing in a room and I don't remember why I came to this room.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Why am I in this part of the house?
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: What am I doing?
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Because I'm trying to hold so many things in my brain that they're falling out.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I can't retain them.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: It might be joy, it might be comfortable, it might be a sweet moment with your people where you're just so thankful to be living this life that you're living.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: But we have these emotional experiences in our bodies, also connected with thoughts and feelings, every single day.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: So it's easier to regulate comfortable feelings.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: So I don't like to describe feelings as good or bad, because I think there's already so much temptation to label certain feelings as bad and often that causes us to not take care of them as well, because we want to create distance between ourselves and things that we think are bad.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: So I like to describe feelings as comfortable or uncomfortable.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: They're all welcome, they're all accepted, they're all giving me important information about my life and my body and what I need and what I want, what I don't need, what I don't want.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: But some are comfortable, some are uncomfortable.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: It's easier to regulate comfortable feelings.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Usually we experience them, we savor them and then we move on.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: It's more challenging to regulate uncomfortable feelings because we don't like to be uncomfortable and so often we try to get out or away from that feeling as quickly as we can.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: But that makes it tempting to avoid or to deny or to escape.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Those are usually the top three tempting ways to handle an uncomfortable feeling, but what that does is it only temporarily saves you from the feeling, but that feeling will wait for you and if that's the way you're dealing with all of your uncomfortable feelings, over the course of the day or the week or the month, you're going to build up to an explosion.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Those feelings.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: They have not gone away.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: They're still there.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: They're going to wait for that small thing Think the phrase the straw that broke the camel's back that very small thing that somebody says or one of your kids does, and crazy angry mommy erupts on the scene and some wild woman with your voice is screaming and out of control and everyone, including her, feels really scared.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: That's what happens when we don't practice emotional regulation.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: So this is why we want to practice some emotional regulation, so that we can be present with those feelings that might mean okay, I need to take a breath, this is really uncomfortable.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: Naming the feeling can be really helpful.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Why is this uncomfortable?
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: What am I feeling?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I'm irritated, I'm frustrated, I'm scared, I'm tired, I'm hungry.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I haven't gotten to eat my breakfast because I've had so many requests.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Being able to name the feeling is really really helpful.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: And then so you bear witness first, like I'm present with myself and my feeling, naming it is usually.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Second.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: You usually can't name it until you have accepted it and been with it, and then from there, the most helpful question I find is okay, what do I need?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: What do I need?
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: If it's like I haven't eaten my breakfast, okay, great, we'll tell everyone you need to sit down and finish your breakfast before you can take any new requests.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: If it's like I haven't eaten my breakfast, okay, great, we'll tell everyone you need to sit down and finish your breakfast before you can take any new requests.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: If it's, I need a minute to write my to-do list for today because I'm going to miss something important and that's causing me to feel very anxious and stressed.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'm going to prioritize that.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: That's going to the top of my list.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I'm going to write those things down.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: But if you can figure out that you're having a feeling, if you can figure out what the feeling is, and then if you can ask in a caring, compassionate way, what do I need, and then do that, that's regulation, and we're not just doing that for ourselves.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: We're teaching our people how to do that too, so that they get better at regulating, which takes some of the load off of us, and then we're all on that journey together, because that's the other thing that's really helpful is, kids learn this best when they see it in the system.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: So when I am dysregulated and I can recognize it, and then I can go to my kids and say I am so sorry you guys, I have been very tired and grumpy this morning and that has caused me to be very impatient with you, and I am going to take care of myself.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to sit down for five minutes and take some breaths, maybe say a prayer, drink some coffee.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I'm going to, I'm going to do one of my things and then I'm going to come back to you.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Then we're going to be able to do this.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Then I'm going to hear your question, or we're going to read the the story, or we're going to go to the place that you want to go.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: When I've had a chance to regulate, when they see us do that, then, when we direct them to regulate, I hear your tone of voice.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I think you're feeling really angry.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I think you need to go to your room and take some breaths and calm down, and then we can talk about what's happening.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: When they see that you do that and you're following that.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: It makes more sense when you direct them to do it and when they see that this is part of our family culture, that feelings are welcome and we work together to resolve them well.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: It helps everyone to feel less concerned when they have an uncomfortable feeling, and it also creates a lot of helpful structure about what does our family do when we're having strong feelings.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: How do we handle that so that we can keep going along well, so powerful, and, Jodi, I know just from having a front row seat kind of to your life and watching you parent that you do not have a child run home, that you definitely have control and you have structure.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of confusion and maybe there's different sides of camp that are like this is gentle parenting and this is strict parenting.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And in strict parenting we just do what we need to do, you control yourself.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: And in gentle parenting it's all about the feelings and I think meeting in the middle of that is what I'm learning as a mom of.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Like you said, you can pretend that the feelings aren't there, but then the eruption happens.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: So how do you, in situations you kind of use the example of the child that's maybe angry You're in a situation where there is just a kid that is having a meltdown and I don't know I'm assuming you can do this in different ways at different ages but you're in this situation where you have a kid that is totally melting down and, as the parent being the stronger one, that you're probably also melting down but holding yourself together.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: What does that look like when I have a five-year-old that's throwing a temper tantrum?
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: And I'm recognizing that this is a feeling or an emotion of some sort.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: How do you come in and use that whole emotional regulation concept in a situation like that, when it's just chaos?
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: I think part of what makes this tricky where people find themselves struggling to answer it well is because when we are that emotionally escalated, usually we are actually in fight or flight, and in fight or flight the thinking part of the brain, the part that has all the problem solving and all the reasoning, that part goes offline, because the whole point of fight or flight is to survive.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: We don't want to waste time thinking, we want to react and don't.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: We know it and that's what that five-year-old is experiencing as well.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Their thinking brain is not present, they are in full reaction.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: It's for really young kids, I mean, it can be this way for adults too.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: It really is like a hostage situation where the feeling takes control of their nervous system and they're fully reactive.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: So when possible I mean I think we've all been there when one of our kids has this experience in a store or church or really public place, which then I just have to take deep breaths because that for me feels very threatening, because I like to look good and I already am afraid that people are judging my parenting and if my five-year-old is the one melting down loudly in the public place, how can I not look like I'm feeling as a parent in that moment.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: So I try as much as I can.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, I need to put that to the side.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: This isn't about me right now.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I'm going to hopefully circle back to that because there's probably some important work with myself I need to do at a later point.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: But with that child I'm going to try to stay as calm and as clear as I can because I need them to calm down.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: That's the first thing.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: So that's not the best moment for me to explain to them what they did wrong, that we don't hit, we don't throw things, we don't kick.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: These are unacceptable behaviors.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Again, the thinking part of their brain is not working, so they're not going to understand that in that moment.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be helpful for me to take that time right then to talk about that.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: What they really need help with is calming down.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: So I will usually start with words If they're willing to be held.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Often angry kids are not, or at least my kids.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: When they're really angry, don't touch me.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: You know there's more of a pushback.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: But I will offer calm, caring resources to help them calm down.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that there aren't going to be consequences in conversation later after they're called.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: But at that moment what I want to do is I want to keep them safe.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: So, depending on the scenario I mean I have snatched a kid in a parking lot, if this is happening and they're in danger of running in front of a car, like I would grab a kid in that situation If we're at home at our house, we direct them to timeout and stay with them until they go up to their room, and then the way we do it is that they for, however old they are, it's the number of their age times two is the length of their timeout.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: So my three-year-old she does a six-minute timeout and then, depending on how upset they are, sometimes I will stay with them for the timeout, because if they're very dysregulated they're not going to know how to calm down, and also if they're little like these are learned skills.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: So usually three, four and five-year-olds, they're starting to learn some things to calm themselves down, but those skills aren't very strong yet and so it's going to be helpful if I stay with them to help them.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: You know, take some breaths, hold them if they're willing to be held, the same kinds of things that we do to calm down.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Like we take space, we might walk away.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Some people we like to move our body.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: I have my one little guy who he is kind of expressive, so that's part of why I want him in his room.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: He might need to throw his pillow, he might want to kick a stuffy, while I want him in the safety of his room doing that, versus doing that with other other kids, other people where there could be somebody could get injured.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: So we take that time to calm down and then once I can see that they are calmer, that's the moment to start talking about the other things.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: That's the moment to say, okay, what happened?
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: And almost always when they're calm, they know.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: They know what the wrong thing was, they know the thing that they said or they know the thing that they did.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: They know that's not okay.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: They can tell you that and then I say okay, so you need to agree that you're not going to do that again.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: But then also, if another person was involved, we need to make a repair that in relationships, conflict happens, harm happens.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: So we're not expecting that.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: That's not going to happen.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: That's the hope, the goal.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: But we understand that in relationships there are hurts and disappointments.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: So then what we're looking for is repair.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: How can you make it right?
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And For us, that usually involves asking for forgiveness, apologizing and a specific apology.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Not, I'm sorry, but I'm sorry that I called you that name, I'm sorry that I pushed you because I was angry.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry that I took your thing without permission.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: That you're apologizing for the specific thing that caused the harm.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And then also is is there anything I can do to make it right and you?
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: That might be a question that they ask the person, or it might be something that they offer.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I would like to give you back your thing, or I would like to let you use my thing, or I would like to tell you back your thing, or I would like to let you use my thing, or I would like to tell you I'm not going to do that again.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So with kids, the first thing you want to do is to calm and then from there you can talk about what went wrong.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: That's also where, as I'm building in the emotional regulation piece, I will connect the feeling to the behavior.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: So when you were angry, you pushed your sister down, yes, so when you were sad, you threw that across the room, because I want them to see that behavior didn't just happen out of nowhere.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: There was a feeling you were having that you were struggling to manage, you were struggling to express it clearly and safely, and you made choices with your words or your body to get that feeling out.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And the feeling was okay, but the choices weren't.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: So I want them to start seeing oh, that was a choice I made when I was having that feeling, because then we can talk about what can you do.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Instead, when you have those feelings, you can use your words to ask for help In our house, you can be sent to timeout or you can elect to go to timeout.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: So if I'm feeling really dysregulated, I can say I need to go for a mommy timeout.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: And I tell you, sometimes my kids will say, mommy, I think you need to go to timeout, and they're right Every time, every time I'm like you're right, I need a minute in timeout.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: So in our family we've tried to remove the shame of that, like that's actually a wise thing.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: If somebody needs to take themselves to timeout to help with their regulation, that that's a that's a safe space.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I will mention one of my favorite for boys.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Raising emotionally strong boys by David Thomas is an excellent resource If you are parenting sons, really of any age, who are struggling in their emotional regulation.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: It's a really practical, really helpful resource that I like to recommend and that we use in our home.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Amazing A couple of things that stood out, men, and that we use in our home.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Amazing A couple of things that stood out.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Number one when you said you know these younger kids that are two and three and four.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: They don't even, they don't quite understand yet how to regulate.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: And in this whole series on parenting, broken into four stages, that zero to five being the discipline or, as I like to say, discipling stage, it's just so plays right into that that our kids need us to help them understand.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, I sometimes feel like I'm still trying to learn so much of this at 46 that if I, I wish I had a lot of this knowledge a long time ago.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: But what do they say?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: The second best time to plant the tree trees today.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: And so we get better as we learn more, and then we can pass that on, just that importance of that and I think, to them.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: How does that look?
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: So we've, I know, specifically this month, we're focusing on this age of zero to five, but I think so much of what you're talking about is so important even to take a little broader stance out.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: So that's what that looks like as a small child.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: What does this look like when you have a teenager?
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: You have somebody that now, in these stages that we're looking at, if they're in that 12 to 18 stage, they're now more in that coaching stage with the parent.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: They don't want to be constantly disciplined and told what to do.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: How does that process look?
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure a lot of it's very similar.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: But now, when you have a young adult that maybe is having a panic attack, is that a time where still that fight or flight is like they need that space and you come back to it.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: How does that look in a teenage relationship?
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I think it is very similar.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: The thing that is helpful is that they're usually more verbal.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Now, we do see that sometimes, when people are really escalated, they're not as verbal.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: So in that you kind of have to see, what kid do you have?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Do you have a kid who goes quiet when they are really upset, or do you have somebody who just starts bubbling out with everything under the sun when they're upset, with everything under the sun when they're upset?
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: So, thinking through you know, when my specific teen is in crisis, what happens, and also looking at things.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I think that's where you don't you want to not just be looking at what happens when there's the eruption or the conflict or the violation of the rule that now we have to talk about, but also how is their regular functioning leading up to that?
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: So is this a child who is really hard on themselves?
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Is this somebody?
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Are they close with a parent or a coach or a friend?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Are they confiding in people about things that they're going through?
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Are they open to feedback, or do they have this sense of I'm figuring things out, I've got it, I'm good, thank you.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not interested Because that you want to shift your approach depending on where your teen is at.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: So I think with teens it's always great to talk when you're in the car because if they don't have to look at you, you'll be looking around.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Often it feels a little bit less threatening for teens to talk to parents in the car.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I also encourage parents, to the degree that they're comfortable with, to share age appropriate authentically from themselves.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: That often opens the door.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: We want our teens to share all of the things that they're thinking and feeling and struggling with, but we don't reciprocate.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: We're expecting them to show up as authentic, vulnerable human beings, but we're not showing them that we are also moving through this world as authentic, vulnerable human beings.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: So sometimes I will even in my practice when I work with teens, if I think there's something we need to talk about but they're not talking about it, I will say something.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: Like you know, I'm wondering if something's happening.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: I might be wrong, but let me just put this out there and then you tell me what you think and then I'll tell them.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I wonder if this is happening in this friendship.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Or I wonder if you're feeling this way in your relationship with this parent, or if you're feeling this way about school.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And I might add something about my own experience in a relationship or in school from when I was their age, to try and build that bridge, to show, yes, I seem ancient to you and I probably am.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: However, I remember.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I remember what it was like to be a teen and I think it's harder to be a teen now than it has ever ever been For sure.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And so I tell teens that and I say you know, I wonder.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I think that maybe this might be what you're experiencing.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are, wow, I have a lot of empathy.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I really would like to hear more about your perspective.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I think that would be really daunting.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: How are you handling this?
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Are you finding resources?
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: What do you need?
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: That can be a better opening for your teen.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Now, I'm guessing that some of your parents who are struggling with teens they're going to say, yeah, but when do we get to talk about their behavior?
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: When do we talk about their snotty attitude?
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: When do we talk about they keep disrespecting curfew?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So, yes, I think it's really important that you're having both of these conversations and, again, thinking about boundaries and rules.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: They're going to work best when it's a very loving, secure relationship, if your kids feel really safe and they really value their connection with you.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: They're going to obey rules that you ask them to obey, even if they think they're stupid.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: They're going to do it for you because of the relationship, and so sometimes when you're seeing what appears to be disrespect, it may be because the relationship needs a little bit more investment.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Maybe we've kind of gotten out of the habit of connecting.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's kind of gotten out of the habit of connecting.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's been that schedule change like they're in a new sport or they started a part-time job and this time, where we used to connect naturally, has shifted.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: So now we're not feeling as connected.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: But that usually also means that then, when they're breaking rules, you're even more irritated and frustrated because you don't feel as close or connected with them either.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: So there really needs to be both.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: There need to be these investments in them, in the relationship, because you love them, because you enjoy them, because they're worth it.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Hopefully that's happening anyway, but I will tell you it's going to be hard for you to enforce rules if that's not happening, because a lot of the things that we ask teenagers to follow either don't make sense to them or do seem kind of stupid to them, and so we need there to be enough value in the relationship that they're like okay, I don't really see the rationale for that, but you're asking me to and I'll do it because I believe you and I trust you and I love you, and so if you're saying this is important to you, even if I don't buy into all the reasons, I'm willing to follow it because of the relationship.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: That's so good, jodi, and it makes me think a couple of things.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: First of all, I think there is a natural, maybe, pride and stubbornness that I can say for myself as a parent, where I'm like I just need it to be known that I'm the authority and you're the child.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: And there does become a time for sure in parenting and I have seen it in all of my children where that approach does not build the relationship that I want.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: I need my kids to absolutely know that I am the authority.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: But when there is relationship, it's a game changer and it makes me think of a marriage relationship.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: It makes me think of I'm in partnership with my husband.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: When there is lack of connection, when there is the schedule changes and we've been so busy in the kids' stuff, there just becomes a tension in the snippiness or the impatience and you go where did that come from?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I love this person to death.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: We're in great relationship.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: How?
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Last week did we have a great week?
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: And this week, and it always comes down to, we have not taken time to connect, we have not slowed down, we have not talked about anything outside of the children and the job.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: We have just not connected on a relational relationship and when you look at that same perspective child to parent, regardless of if somebody's in charge or not that creates safety, that there is safety in relationship and that is when you can get to the heart of matters, because there's trust right.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, you have that trust to be able to say exactly what you did.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I don't even agree with this necessarily.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: I don't understand it, but because there is evidence that you're not just this dictator, you're not just trying to make my life miserable, then I'm going to listen, I'm going to go forward in that.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really powerful takeaway that maybe if there's struggle in a teen relationship this summer, maybe your main focus isn't to beat the behavior out of the child but to really dig in and lean in, to really just fostering precious time of relationship building and see what the overflow of that is over the next three months.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I would add to that too, Nikki, of that is, over the next three months.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: I would add to that too, Nikki.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I think especially when they get to be teens, it's very inconvenient for parents.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: You have to be willing to sacrifice your time especially often it's your free time.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Often when kids, when they're ready to open their hearts and talks in their teen years, it's late at night and I already putting my kids to bed.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: If it's after 8 PM and they suddenly want to have really serious conversations, I am praying.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Help me, Holy Spirit, help my brain to wake up enough to engage with the sweet person's heart.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: But when they are teens, you have to be even more sacrificial and committed to your love, because these are often conversations that are late at night or they're happening while you're going out of your way to do something for this kid that is important to them and they don't even know or care how it's costing you.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: But you know and you're choosing to do it because they're worth it and that's what gets translated to them.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: They don't understand all of that behind the scenes of how sacrificially you're loving them as a parent.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: But when you show up consistently, when you're consistently available, when they seek you out when they're ready to talk, when they're ready to go deep and you're like, yes, tell me more.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: That means the world to them and that gives you so much equity than when you have to have those hard conversations.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: But if you're really tethered to your schedule of like, nope, I wake up at 5 am to work out, so I'm not available to talk right now, or nope, this time of the week is mine for whatever.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not available.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: If you're really committed to your stuff on your timetable, there's a risk that you're going to miss some of these moments.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: You're going to miss some of these connection points that could really make or break what is happening relationally with your teen.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: That is so funny because, again, having a 22, 19 and 14 year old the 14 year old, you know, past 10 o'clock there's not a lot of conversation but having children that are older, that sometimes come in the house after we've gone to bed or that don't live at home, there is often a text that comes through at midnight and the text reads are you still awake?
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: And you are in bed, the lights are off.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You get the text and you're like, well, no, but yes, a hundred percent I am, and it's like that prayer of Holy Spirit, be my natural energy, because I feel so depleted.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: But I have to show up anytime I get the text of are you awake?
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Can I call you?
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: It's just this stage of yes, yes, I am, and that is so true.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Stage of yes, yes, I am, and that is so true.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: And I have never once regretted picking up the call or sitting up in bed, throwing some water on my face, pacing the hall, whatever it is, because, especially at that age, when they're ready to talk, you have to be willing to just lean into that.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: So, so good.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Let's shift gears a little bit, specifically talking about how does shame and guilt as parents, whether it's that we're not doing enough, we're not doing a good enough job, we're not balancing it well.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: I'm carrying things from my past.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: How does this all play in?
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And this is probably like a 16 session question with a patient.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: But how can you kind of give some encouragement to our listeners about how shame and guilt don't serve us and actually hold us back and just ways to kind of work through that and let that go, especially coming into summer?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: So first, I always like to make sure that people are clear on the difference between shame and guilt.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: So guilt is I messed up, what I did was wrong, what I said was wrong.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Shame says I am messed up, I am a failure.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Do you hear the difference?
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: It's really important because guilt again, think about repair.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: So with guilt, repair is possible.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I made a mistake.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: I yelled when I felt out of control.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: Repair is still possible.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: It was the yelling, it was the not regulating to the point that I became out of control and yelled I can fix that, I can adjust that.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I can use my skills.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: I can apologize to my children when I start to move into shame.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I am a bad mother, I am failing my kids, I am a failure.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: This now I'm beginning to make shame my identity, and not that that's irreparable, but that is a lot harder to climb out of.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: And I think it's also very hard living in this day and age with social media, because we use a lot of comparison and we compare ourselves to.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Well, when I'm having a play date or when I'm talking to my friend who has kids the same age as mine, she seems like she has it together.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I bet she never yells at her kids and her house is probably always clean and she probably made a nutritious dinner and she looks like she works out.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: We go down that whole slippery slope of thinking other people are better and we are worse, and so then any mistakes we make seem like evidence that the shame is justified, that the failure is actual and total and complete.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: And then, when you're there, you're extremely vulnerable to depression and anxiety Again, because your identity, who you are, your value is now being defined as really, really terrible.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: So I think self-regulation is a really big part of this, when we can recognize we all make mistakes all throughout the day, all throughout our lives.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: So it's okay to make mistakes as long as we repair and we learn from them.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: This is what I tell my kids and I'm trying to practice what I preach Now.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Where it can get hard is we've all had those days where it is mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake and you get to the fifth or 10th or 20th and you really want to agree with the shame, because it almost seems easier to believe you are a terrible parent than to sit with the feeling of I am really not doing well today.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I am really every time I try to reset and restart, I am still making the same mistakes.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: I kind of want to quit trying and just land in the shame and stay there and maybe even throw myself a little bit of a pity party, maybe numb out a little bit, eat or drink something I like, or buy something new online, or judge somebody else while I scroll social media that I think I'm better than them.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: All of these things kind of happen.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: And even if you're there because we've been there, we've all been there.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: So even when I'm there, usually what I try to do okay, stop, just stop.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I will even picture a stop sign to just fully stop myself.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Stop that speed train of thought, stop whatever's happening in my body, just that flush of emotion.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Stop that whole thing and breathe, just breathe.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: And then I will say, okay, what is true?
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: What is true?
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Because for me, even on my worst day, it's too far to say that I'm a terrible mother.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I know that's not true, I know that's not true.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: And so if I can, in that moment, say what is true, I'm able to say, well, that's not true, I'm not a terrible mother.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: It might be true that this is a really bad day.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: It might be sure that I've made a lot of mistakes today, but it's not sure that I'm a terrible mother.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: It's not sure that I'm ruining my children.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: It's not true that any of the things that have happened cannot be repaired, and as long as repair is possible, then there's hope.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: So then I would move into some specific so.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: So with emotional regulation, I like to recommend both preventative skills and responsive skills.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: So preventative skills are the things that I build into my daily and my weekly life because they take care of me, they help me to be well, they help me to think well and handle my emotions well.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: So these are things like I love to have some quiet time just for me at the start of every day, even if it's only 10, 15 minutes, to just have some time on my own to pray, read, think it's really, really important.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: So that's one of my preventative practices.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: Things like walking, exercising, getting a massage, reading, growing, going to therapy these are all things that you can do weekly, monthly, that they take care of you.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: They're investments back into your well-being, emotionally and physically.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: So I encourage everyone and again, as you're thinking about your summer planning, make sure that you have at least a few of these things Every single week.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: I would say you should have at least three.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: I like to have one a day be the minimum, but if one a day feels like too many for you, at least three a week.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: You should have some preventative skills that are reinvesting in you.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: Now, when we go over to responsive skills, these are the things that you do when you're burning down.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I've made my home in shame, everything is burning, everyone's crying, we've all gone to our rooms in disarray.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: This is when you need some responsive skills and usually these are not things your brain's going to be able to come up with in that moment because, again, the part of your brain that would think that it's not online, it's not functioning.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: The reactive part of your brain is.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: So I encourage people to make a list when they're not in crisis and keep it somewhere where they can find when they are and just start doing things on the list.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: So you think like what are the things that just feel caring If I'm angry?
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: What feels helpful If I'm sad?
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: What feels helpful If I'm scared, if I I'm stressed?
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: Remember the last time you had one of those feelings in a big way?
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Did anything feel helpful?
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: What was it?
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: Write it down.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Is there anything you can imagine would feel helpful if it was available to you?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Great, put it on the list, write it down and then, when you find yourself in those moments, try some of the things on that list and then also observe what really works for you, like, redo your list.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: Every so often You'll find that there are some things that really work for you.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Move them to the top of the list.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: So they're the first three things you do when you're really in crisis.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: And then also, I always like to be open, like what are other people doing?
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: I like to ask, like, what are your things that you do?
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Because, to be open, like what are other people doing?
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: I like to ask, like what are your things that you do?
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Because sometimes mine will feel kind of old or stale and then I'll hear about something somebody else is doing and I'm like, wow, that's great, I want to put that on my list.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I want to try that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: That could work for me too.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: So it shouldn't be just this permanent, static thing, but again, I think everybody should have a list.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: So those would be kind of my two recommendations as you're doing your summer planning, make sure you've got a preventative list and then also work on a responsive list and tuck it somewhere.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Because it's not a matter of if.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: It's a matter of when we all find ourselves in that moment of crisis where we haven't handled any of the feelings or problems well and we are right there on the verge of just shame or we're in it.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: So to climb out of that, it's very similar to what we do with the kids.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: First we have to get calm.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: We've got to literally calm down our nervous system so that the thinking part of our brain can work again, because we need the thinking part of our brain for problem solving.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: So we've got to get on our list, we've got to do things on there until we feel calm and then you can get to the okay, what do I need?
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Now the thinking part of my brain's working again.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: What do I need?
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: What needs to happen?
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm trying really hard to make something work today for our family, and today is actually not the day.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: It is actually not working.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I need to abandon this plan.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: This is what's going work for my family today.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: That's also a really great technique.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: As you move into summer, sometimes we have ideas about ways our days are gonna go.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: That's not what's gonna happen.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: So, being able to be flexible, see that feedback from your people and change this.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: We're gonna have a different day.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: This is what we're gonna do today.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: So I think those are.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Those are all the kinds of things that you can do to both prevent mom guilt and mom shame, but also we all get there.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: No shame about finding yourself in shame.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: You're not alone.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Again, most of that is not true.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Figuring out what you can just let go of because it's not true, and then figuring out how to compassionately care for yourself, calm down so you can get your thinking brain to help you to figure out what you need.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: That's going to allow you to climb out of that and to get back on track with all the things.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the responsive and I'm thinking, okay, if I'm melting down and I go to my room, is crying responsive?
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Am I just allowed to cry?
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think like right, am I just allowed to take a 15 minute nap, like close my eyes?
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: So it's very practical things like just have that private time where you're not still trying to figure it out in that fight or flight and just do what you need to do Read a book, take a nap, take a walk.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, and I would even say sometimes people again are kind of judgy about what they put on their list, like it could be a nap, it could be a cup of coffee, it could be calling a friend, it could be ugly crying for 20 minutes.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: There's really not a wrong thing on that list, unless I really could only think of a couple if they involved self-harm or harm to somebody else, if there was a destructive link.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: But other than that, I think you could have just about anything on the list, as long as you're not doing it for numbing, like I want to be disconnected from the pain in myself.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: That's where those things get destructive and then we want to put them on the destructive list even though they're not really we have used them destructively, versus if we're using them in a connected way to provide compassionate care, then it can be on the list.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: So many interesting things there, and I think, too, you talked a little earlier about the difference between shame and guilt and then needing to run things through the filter of is this true?
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: One thing that I have really been working on identifying in my own life is until I really understand my true identity, specifically in Christ and what he says about me, it's impossible for me to understand my true identity as a mom, as a wife, as a friend, because I will always go to the places that I'm failing and believe those lies.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: And so I think, even for me, a responsive thing that I think is coming back to a list of who does God say I am, what does God say is true about me and when we can learn those truths, how, then, we're also able to help our children maybe have that as part of their responsive behavior of I'm not a bad kid, I'm not.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: You know all these different things, that you can see the same shame cycle that we take on as parents.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: You can watch your kids take on, and it's interesting to me that if my kids were ever to say to me, I'm a horrible kid, I'm never going to be any good, you shouldn't love me, our reaction would be that is not true, but yet we allow those same things that we would never allow our kids to say about themselves.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: We will take all of those harsh, harsh things and try to put them on ourselves as our identity.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: It's just a really good reminder that if you wouldn't let your child say that and believe it about themselves without intervening and saying no, no, no, no, no, that's not true.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: We should not believe it about ourself.
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, well, and I would add to that because for me, that I'm like you.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I find that very, very it's a helpful way of defining that line.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: But to take it a step further, especially as kids get older, they can tell if you're telling them one thing and you don't do it.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: So I know that my kids, if I'm not actually working on growing just like you're saying and believing who God says I am, that I'm lovable because God says I'm lovable, If I don't actually believe that and grow in my belief, there's going to come a point where they're going to doubt it for themselves because they're going to see that I don't actually believe that and grow in my belief.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: There's going to come a point where they're going to doubt it for themselves because they're going to see that I don't believe it and they're going to say that's unthinkable to me because I love my mom so much.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: But if she believes that she's not lovable, maybe I'm not really lovable either.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, either, and I mean I kind of have chills even as I'm saying that.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: It really makes me sober-minded that I think, gosh, god, I want to be as healthy as I can be, as rooted in truth as I can be, so that I'm actually believing the things that I'm wanting my kids to believe about themselves, that I can push back on the lies that they're believing.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: And they find it more believable because I don't believe those things about me either.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: A powerful reminder that we talk about ourselves pretty openly in what we dislike.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: It's very easy to whether it's because it just feels overwhelming or it's I'm trying to get somebody to tell me otherwise, and so I'm going to self-deprecate so that it brings them attention to say, oh, no, no, no, no, you're not.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: But anytime we speak those things and I even think specifically as a woman, about my body, about my worth, about my size, about any of those things, just how these are learned behaviors, and so I think what's encouraging, kind of to end there, jodi and I feel like I say this over and over and over on this podcast it doesn't matter what stage of parenting you're in.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: There is never a stage where it's like, well, that ship has sailed and I missed it.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: I can't undo it.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: I think, even if you have all adult children and you start to make some of these changes in your own life, where you start to self-regulate emotions, you start to make some of these changes in your own life where you start to self-regulate emotions, you start to call out the difference between guilt and shame, you start to analyze things that you're saying or trying to believe against truth and what God says about you.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just go through all these different things that we've talked about, your children will notice you making that change If they're 30 years old, married and have their own families.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: It is never too late to start making these changes and start to become aware, because the healthier we get I you know I think there may be part of the reason why people just love the grandparent stage so much is because everything that I'm doing in parenting right now I'm doing for the first time.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I've never done it before, I've never raised this age or this stage or this attitude or this crisis.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: But in grandparenting it's kind of like that second round of parenting where you have a different perspective and so, if nothing else, it encourages me like, yeah, I wish I had a lot of those tools or I wish I had some of this wisdom.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Especially now on the podcast, talking to people week after week, I'm like, shoot, I should have done this crash course before I had children.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: I just heard a thing that said your first child grows up with you.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Your second child is parented by you.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: That first one, you're just both figuring it out.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: The second one is actually being parented and even though my youngest is 14, I'm like man, each one of my kids are getting a little better parent than the last did, but what's really exciting is that my grandkids, man, maybe we will have it figured out on some of this ways, that we just how we regulate and how we show up and how we just get that identity piece figured out.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: I think that is a struggle specifically for young moms, and so I just want to encourage you all as we are coming into summer, as it's going to get crazy.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: I think something else that Jodi said that's so important is being willing to pivot.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: We can get in our mind about this is what we want it to be, this is how it's going to look, these are all the expectations, and sometimes just being able to pivot and say you know what, we're going to do it different.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: I remember a specific example.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: I was with an aunt.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: She was taking care of us.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: She didn't actually have children, so she was taking care of me and my four siblings, and I remember the day being a little bit hectic.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: We were young Probably the oldest was 12, maybe 13.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: And I remember her saying it was around the dinner hour and she said you know what, let's go get frozen yogurt.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Said you know what?
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: Let's go get frozen yogurt and let's have frozen yogurt for dinner, as long as we put fruit on it.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Let's have frozen yogurt for dinner with fruit, and it was kind of like this Hail Mary everything's falling apart.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: We need to revamp.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: That was 35 years ago and I remember the decision to can dinner and have frozen yogurt and fruit and call it dinner and how exciting that felt.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: And just something so small, from nothing is working.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: The meat didn't thaw, the crock pot turned off, we're out of the propane tank.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Just these opportunities, when things are not going well, to just pivot and say what can I do right now to not let the emotions totally take over and wreak havoc in that fight or flight Like how can I just make this fun?
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: And I just think that's an encouragement to all of us.
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: There's not a report card at the end of summer, there is not a pass or fail.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: And if, in reality, at the end of summer, you can say I've learned to regulate a little bit better, I've leaned into relationship, I'm understanding the difference between guilt and shame, I just think there's so many small things that we can start to do, no matter what age our kids are, to just be in the process of growth, and if we're growing, we're either growing or dying.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: So growing is a great place to be.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: So, jodi, I just appreciate you taking time with us.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else that's like this?
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: One last thing you're like I want to leave the listeners with this before we sign off.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, I've already talked about this, but I always like to encourage moms to be kind to yourself and take care of yourself, and I think about every time I've ridden on an airplane.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: You secure your own mask first, because there's that chance that you could be incapacitated and you wouldn't be able to get anyone's mask on.
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: And I know if you're listening to this podcast.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: You are a good mom.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: You want the best for your family and your people and you want to do everything in your power to offer that to them.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: So to do that, make sure you're getting your mask on.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: So, to do that, make sure you're getting your mask on, make sure you're taking good care of yourself and be kind, be gentle as you go.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: It's okay to take time to learn.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: It's okay to have it feel like steps forward and steps back, that there's ups and there's downs.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: There's seasons where we think, oh wow, I'm growing so well, I feel so proud, I feel so encouraged.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: We also have seasons where we think I'm pretty sure I'm stagnant, I'm pretty sure I'm dead, I'm pretty sure all the good things that have happened are invalidated and nothing good will ever happen again.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: These ebbs and flows are a natural part of life.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: So just take a breath and be kind, be gentle and get back on track.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Keep reaching for all of the good things that you still want to have, for all of the growing that you can still do, and that the more that you try to just be kind and keep going, I really think you're going to get not just where you're hoping to go, but you'll get beyond that.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: We think that we have to be so driven and so successful in our vision boards and our goals and our measurements, but really driving pressure does not yield true growth and fruitfulness as much as that gentle persistence and that gentle cultivation of putting your heart and your mind before the things that are going to, that are going to be good, that are going to grow them.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: So if you are doing that in even the tiniest gentle ways, you will see growth.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: And I like to measure that in gratitude.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: Gratitude is one of my favorite practices.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: What am I thankful for today?
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: What am I thankful for in this season, especially if it's a rotten day or I'm sure that there's nothing good that I have done or that is happening in my life.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I will challenge myself to start finding all the things that I can be grateful for because it helps to shift that perspective in a really powerful way.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: Two of my favorite quotes kind of go hand in hand with.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: That is number one a bad day does not equal a bad life, and a bad day equals good data, and I think you know both of those are so true, especially what you're talking about.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Like I can have a bad day and not allow my brain to believe I have a bad life or I am a bad mom and, in the same way, a bad day.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: If I take time to look at it, it gives me really good data to say whoa, where did this go?
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: Haywire, what happened, and how can I use that bad day, use the good data to have less bad days.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: So so much truth in what you said there.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: So, going to so much here, guys, there has been a wealth of information.
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: I hope this is one that maybe you come back to and visit a couple of times throughout the summer.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: So, before we sign off, I'm going to ask you if you haven't already, make sure that you go and follow the show, whether you're on Spotify or Apple.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Go find that follow button that will make sure that every single week when we have a new guest on for the summer series, that you will automatically see the show pop up on Thursdays to get your fill of amazing parenting wisdom from so many.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: So until next week, friends, take care.