Latest / Callum Walker | Figuring It Out / [Special Guest Phil Brady] Leaning Into Fear: Viewing Fear & Doubt As A Signal Of Growth

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[Special Guest Phil Brady] Leaning Into Fear: Viewing Fear & Doubt As A Signal Of Growth · Callum Walker | Figuring It Out

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: If fear is the only thing stopping us from achieving our dreams and we only fear what we don't understand, then the antidote to fear is knowledge. All we have to do is find out who has the knowledge that we need to conquer our fears and achieve our entrepreneurial dreams. My name is Callum Walker, and welcome to the podcast that will help you figure it out and conquer this lonely entrepreneurial journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, and welcome to the podcast. Today, I have a very, very, very special guest with me. I have Mr. Phil Brady. Phil is a leadership coach and he works with people across the world, helping them succeed and perform at home and in work.
• 0:46
  I was very, very, very fortunate to share the stage with Phil at an event in September in Ireland. And I have seen him speak a couple of times, had many conversations. And in all honesty, I have found this man to be very, not only just inspiring, but also kind of like gearing me towards something that I already kind of have always known within me, but it seems that every time that I've had a conversation or I followed any of Phil's content and the stuff that he talks about, it's just made that message clearer and clearer and clearer within me, which in all honesty is why I really, really wanted to have Phil on here. So Phil, first of all, can I just say thank you so much for your time and just your energy today? How are you?
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm great. And yeah, thank you for saying those really kind things about me. I appreciate it. And I honor everything that you've said with as much energy back as I can.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Very kind. That's very kind. So, well, first of all, just for all of my listeners, can you just give like, you know, I've given a very brief bio there, but almost like, keep it really simple. Like, what is your message? Like, what what do you what do you feel like you're here to you're here to do?
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: I was speaking at an event on Sunday, and they put up about what's your life's purpose? And I'm like, if anybody can answer this question, please teach me how to do it because I don't know the answer. I I I think my work is to so let me explain how my mentor does, and then I'll change the language and explain why it's mine. Mentor says he's the one down from border. I mean, he's just the most profound individual.
• 2:43
  Right? And I'm so lucky to have him in my life. And I don't pay him. He doesn't charge me. He doesn't want to charge me.
• 2:50
  He just wants to spend time and plant seeds and water them daily and see what grows. That's his thing. But he says what he wants to help people with in coaching is help them remove the clothes they're wearing that aren't theirs to wear. Right. So we put on identities, habits, behaviors, ways of showing up, ways of being in the world that are for other people.
• 3:17
  And some of my work is to help people remove the kind of tin man exterior and help them see and honor their heart and see who they are from within and help them help them realize what their heart beats for. Like, what is your heart beating for? We don't know the answer to that question. Mine beats to help me show up in the next moment to try and serve the person in front of me. Does yours beat for?
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I think it's that same thing, you know. I feel like I try and almost kind of go by how, yeah, that I've really kind of like myself tried to go down a path of almost like a little bit less logical thinking. Like I'm a scientist originally, like in terms of the way in which I've almost kind of been programmed through my own studying and everything has been very logically based. So I think when I kind of get away from the logical and analytical mind and get towards more almost like my soul, it's almost like that feeling of, yeah, this is it. It always comes from helping someone solve a problem that has been causing them pain and knowing I've paid, I played a part in that, I feel like that's definitely becoming clearer and clearer.
• 4:48
  But the mechanism by which I help people solve problems kind of like changes. So I think it's that almost like that, that feeling of fulfillment. Yeah. What is your heartbeat for? That's a deep question, isn't it?
• 5:09
  In terms of like, serious, like questioning. Do you know what? When you almost like said then, I help people remove clothes that aren't theirs, to get to that place where you're like, right, I need to take, I'm wearing clothes that aren't mine. Well, first of all, obviously you must have to kind of reach a point where you're like, hold on, like I am wearing clothes that aren't mine. So for someone listening to this, what sort of like situation would that potentially look like?
• 5:44
  Or how would that potentially manifest itself like to you to go like, right, do know what? There's something not right here. I'm going down a path that isn't my path. Does that make sense?
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So what experiences might people be in that are that they're wearing other people's clothes? Yeah. I mean, in a career where you're dying and rotting inside, right, Becoming a doctor to make your parents happy is an example of that. Not, I mean, people that get involved in the fitness industry typically have this like, oh, get a proper job.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Right. A guilt or shame when you don't know what you're doing. Right. Oh, I should know what I'm doing and I need to be So so let me give you an example. Alex Hermozzi is a beacon of light for a lot of people.
• 6:58
  David Goggins is as well. Right. I would offer people the invitation to consider that Alex Hermosy works relentlessly and that works for him. It does not have to work for other people. David Goggins runs until he's injuring his body.
• 7:19
  That works for him. That does not work for you. And I think it causes people suffering in work and exercise that they think they need to suffer and put their body and mind and being into pain before they get like enlightenment or good or arrive. When I think there's a better alternative, which is listen to your body, honor your body. What does it need?
• 7:44
  What do you actually feel drawn to? And then just taking the next step with that information you won't see ever. I don't I mean, I really don't know what I'm doing next week. I don't know what I'm doing next year. Literally, I see what's possible, make it up as I go along.
• 8:04
  There's so many layers to other people's wants of us. The groups we're part of, the communities we've spent time in, our parents typically, they'll want and provide us. I mean, I literally wrote a thought this morning. Adding people to your network adds their judgment where they're sharing their limits onto you if you don't catch it or are aware of it? And are we collecting people in our networks that open us to life or close us to life?
• 8:34
  And I know we're going to talk about resistance and stuff, but I mean, I typically have like a male fatherly figure in my mind that's judging not good enough, couldn't do, should try harder, all this kind of stuff just so I get the love of my dad. Right. So whatever I need to do or be or have or whatever, I'll run infinitely into the future to chase that. But now I catch it. I'm like, nah, like, like walking in the forest.
• 9:05
  Like walking with my dog and wasting time.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, it's interesting you said something there, like David Goggins, almost like punishing his body until he's like fully injured. I know with myself, I have definitely been through many periods where I've continued to do something for a sustained period of time because it's hard. And because my relationship with that is because it's hard and it's causing me pain, that must mean it's right. And what I'm doing is I'm going down this path to prove to, and I'm not, so when you said your dad, that like almost like a fatherly figure, I'm a similar sort of thing. Like, you know, my dad's been very successful.
• 9:45
  He's been running a business for forty plus years. So naturally I'll be very open and honest that I've always had with myself internally that feeling of I have to live up to that. And I have to get daddy's approval that I can run a business. I can be a successful entrepreneur. I have what it takes.
• 10:03
  I can take it. So, and I know that I've gone down a path definitely multiple times and made the same mistake over and over and over again. I'm doing this because it's hard because I'm proving I have what it takes and I can take it. But the problem is it destroyed my soul at the same time. And that almost, I find it fascinating how you've just gone there almost like the should have's and it like, you know, we're briefly having a conversation before this around almost like coaching and almost like the shame side of things.
• 10:35
  It's almost like, not that that David Goggins, you know, I feel is a destructive character because I do I do resonate with elements of his message. Absolutely. And he's clearly having an impact on people's lives a 100%, but I can definitely understand how someone can view that and go, that's how I should live my life. And if I'm not doing that, I am a failure. So that's really, really clicked with me.
• 11:01
  That was amazing. Yeah.
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: And if you scale it back to just growing up, I mean, I've written down socialized to self authored. I mean, the stages of development as you mature as an adult, we don't often get to some of the later stages unless you've had some really difficult experiences in your life. I mean, it's not a scale to climb. It's a this is how your life might unfold or reveal itself over time. Right.
• 11:25
  But I mean, socialize this your your peer group in college or in school listened to Miley Cyrus and you wanted to listen to Taylor Swift. Our belonging need is linked to survival. So we hold and change who we are to fit into the group to give us that need for survival. But I want to listen to Tay Tay, right? So there comes a point where instead of being authored and socialized by the group, we take back the pen and author who we are.
• 11:53
  But we have to go through some of that discomfort. We have to go through some of the loneliness that happens as well because it's isolating as an experience to say, I want different than the life that I've been told I should live or fit into. It's lonely. But what happens is once you live through that a little bit longer, the new tribe that embody Tay Tay, for example, in this example, listening to Tay Tay and love all the concerts and all this kind of stuff, they exist. You just haven't left the old and it's like a hermit crab.
• 12:25
  Hermit crabs must leave the safety and confine of the old smaller shell. Stress or pain or discomfort is the signal that you're growing. Let's call it stress, not pain, because there's a very like it's important difference.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: But move into building a muscle. It's the same building a muscle. Like, you know, you can go through pain and that can rip the muscle or you go through that stress to grow the muscle. So yeah, 100%.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So then you're in the mushy middle, you're lonely, you're isolated, you're ungrounded. You don't have any kind of feet underneath you with any kind of grounding of who I am, what I do and who I spend time with. That's because the new group hasn't arrived. So again, that's an evolution of leaving behind tribe, rite of passage, literally.
• 13:08
  Hermit crabs leave the shell of old and then they expand into this newer shell.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Interesting because I had, I had Lenny on the podcast and we were talking about rite of passage. And and I and I love how almost like like your program, like closing the gap. I almost kind of feel that. Yeah. I'd I'd love to almost kind of know how do you differentiate the difference between discomfort and stress in a positive way versus this is pain.
• 13:44
  So almost like for context, like me going down a path almost like, because it's hard, it must be right. But actually that was a destructive path that was going down the path of me wearing other people's clothes to get daddy's approval. How do you differentiate the difference between like internally with your own self awareness between, no, this is discomfort that I must go through for the rites of passage versus the like, hold on. Woah. Is that experience?
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know. What a question. I immediately went to uncertainty. I don't know. What do you think?
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: I think it comes down to the question you originally asked me, which is what does your heart beat for?
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I think that maybe when I think sometimes it can take destructive experiences that you like, you know, whether it's been I've been going down a path that has almost left the real true things that I really value behind, whether it's been that with my partner, that it's almost like, you know, I've gone down that path, yet it has come at the expense of me being the most, the best partner I can be for someone I care about. I think that unfortunately, sometimes it can take a very destructive conversation or moment or whatever for you to go like, hey, woah. And again, that's more pain almost like as a messenger. And there's a signal to say like, woah, hey, almost like kind of like one of my favorite books is The Alchemist. And almost like it's an omen.
• 15:30
  It's like, hey, that's an omen that you need to kind of take and ignore it at your peril. But I find that when you kind of spoke about like the hermit crab, almost like it has to kind of leave and you have to leave the tribe, that can be challenging. And it can be well, obviously it is challenging because you're not only just leaving potentially people behind, but then you're also leaving memories. You're leaving a identity as well behind. So that that's yeah.
• 15:59
  Again, it's it's hard.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's ungrounding. And we want to feel certain. We want to feel confident. We're told we should be happy all the time.
• 16:10
  But typically those emotions we encounter when we are moving, when we were growing towards the future, they are uncomfortable. But I think it's sometimes also because we're told they're bad. You shouldn't feel guilty or shame or judged or or guilty or negative or sad or anxious or whatever. You shouldn't feel those. It's like, no, that's actually just the reality of life is that you'll feel both light and dark emotions when we judge the dark.
• 16:46
  So let's let's take it back to pain or stress and knowing the difference. Pain causes the body to recoil. True? Roughly. Put your hand on a stove, recoil.
• 17:00
  Right. So the signal there to move away from. Right. So emotions or sensations in the body, which emotion, that's all it is. We label the emotion, which is just the signal, and we label it with feeling, which are the words to describe.
• 17:18
  So the same sensation in your body of nerves and excitement is the same emotion, different feeling. The label is different, same sensation in your body. So pain as a sensation causes you to move away from. So you're helping to navigate the environment. Joy and happiness and contentment and calm and relaxed and peaceful tells you move towards these things sometimes.
• 17:42
  But again, if we don't have the mix, life would be shit. Right. We need a mix of both. And it's to find the kind of conversation between the two of them where you're getting enough of both that actually you're evolving you and your life in a way that feels like it's progressing into the future, that's revealing more of who you are or developing self. It's always an adding and removing.
• 18:12
  So it's a what do I need to cast off? What could I add to my identity or what might I become or who might I develop into as an individual?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: And what role do role models play in that? In terms of, like, in terms of the next identity that you're almost kind of searching for, well, again, that's a that's almost like a bit of a, you know, wobbly bridge in that sense in terms of almost like going like, Okay, because I know that it's almost kind of being drummed into me of like, right, you know, it's not necessarily what you need to do, it's who you need to become. So then naturally there's been that potential pressure internally to go, right, I've got to figure out what the next identity and what the version of me actually looks like. So I've got to go and search for all of the characteristics. So then naturally it's like, okay, well, I then have to almost go, well, I don't know what the characteristics are for that next version of me.
• 19:14
  So I need to almost kind of like search for people who impress or inspire me and take a bit of the characteristic from that person, that person, that person. So would you say like for me that that my own way has been from almost kind of like, you know, looking at role models and taking aspects of that, like in what sort of like parts you spoke about having your own mentor almost like, would you say that a coach almost kind of plays a part? I don't really know what I'm asking here, but almost like, do get where I'm almost kind of coming from.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of like are you adding parts of other people to you or are you being who you are?
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: Hang on. That's it.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's both. If you think of like Russian nested dolls, you remove the outer one to get to the next one and the next one and the next one. And again, within the tin man exterior is the mushy heart. I think that that's true.
• 20:19
  And I think it's half the story because the other half of the story is where are we beating? How are we using the energy from your heart towards something? And that will change. You are you are created as you create, so you're evolving as you're moving. So you get to kind of steer that, but hopefully from a place of authenticity and authenticity, you can only learn in relation to other people.
• 20:49
  So role models don't just have to be positive either. Like I want the tenacity of Goggins, the compassion of Mother Teresa and the business savvy of Callum Walker. Right. So so but we could say I want the I want less on less uncertainty. So, I mean, there's like a to and a from and we only know actually our place in the world based on other people.
• 21:23
  And I think we forget that we think authenticity is me spending time in the room with a journal. It's not That's only in contrast to the people that you've spent time with up until now. So role models can provide some of that map that you can have contrast against and say less of, more of, less of, more of that. That's literally the secret to changing your life. What is right now?
• 21:46
  What do you want less of? What do you want more of? Do that in twenty four hour increments, commit to it over time and it'll change your life. Like that is literally what happens because we're biological. Mhmm.
• 22:01
  You plant a seed, you order it daily, and you don't shout it to grow faster.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: Interesting because I can't remember I was reading it. I think it might have been in one of Bob Proctor's books. He's talking about an incubation period where it seems that everything in life has an incubation period. Like, you know, whether it's a plant to, you know, a seed to turn into a tree, see as a, you know, a a egg to turn into a baby. Yet there seems to be this almost like, I don't know whether it's a pressure or, like, internally, you there, you saying there it's like, right, you know, that within just take it twenty four hour chunks and just keep watering that seed daily.
• 22:47
  And that's fed frequently logically through social media. It's like, you know, just keep going. It's a long game. Yet there still seems to be this external pressure or is it actually an internal pressure to go, no. We're almost like shouting at the seed and it's gotta happen quicker.
• 23:03
  And like, why is it not happening quickly enough? And then you kinda get into that, like, that feedback loop of like, oh, it's not happening quick enough, so it's not gonna work. And it reminds me of, because whenever I see trees, I always think of you, like it reminds me of the Chinese bamboo tree. Yes. You know, and that same thing there.
• 23:24
  And I don't know if you've ever seen the sketch from Les Brown when he's talking about it, where he's like, you know, he's saying that, you know, I'm there in my garden watering it and people are coming up to me going like, hey, Ray Charles and Stephen Wonder, see nothing's growing. Like, and you're gonna like, what are you doing? You're watering a Chinese bamboo tree. That I've actually written that on my questions for you on how do you keep that faith there? Cause that surely in terms of almost like the, you know, the water your seed, water your, water that seed every day, twenty four hours, you know, internally they're like, right, I know if I just do this over and over and over and over and over again, how do you keep that faith?
• 24:11
  To give you patience? Or doesn't faith give you patience?
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Or is patience developed in the absence of faith? Like like, what is going on here? Can something fucking happen? You like, that's patience.
• 24:32
  It's the same with courage is only in response to fear, never the absence. So. Maybe let me go back to what the story you were telling as well, just about the kind of relenting pressure or feeling of is that within or is that outside of us? I listened to a podcast recently and they were talking about we live in a more secular society, so there's less people going to religion. Congregations have gotten smaller.
• 25:03
  People are moving away from organizational religion. You could say that things like the law of attraction or different things give people a vessel that has very similar symbols or models or frameworks or ways of thinking about the world. But one of the suggestions in that podcast, it was on the art of manliness. I can't think of the person's name. He said that because we're in a secular society, we've taken morality from capitalism and capitalism story is more and bigger and better is good.
• 25:41
  So to be good is more, bigger, better. And when we add expectations that we're presented with from things like social media to say as a brother, son, father, mother, whatever the role is, you should. And here's a thousand things you need to hit for each of those things. And you need to do the more bigger and better. So, but because that's good.
• 26:12
  And this is why we hear so often people saying I'm not good enough or never feel good enough. How could you when the game is rigged against you and good doesn't allow a space for just being in this moment with nowhere to go and nothing to do or be. There's no space for that because that's not good. And we have a deep sense of good or bad, but we take that typically from the culture of the time that we live in. There was a time when overweight people was good.
• 26:47
  Now it's the opposite to some extent, right? So the patience clashes with the moral good story that we're pushed that isn't our story. Because we are nature. We're built to be slow and move quick when we need to, and then rest and cuddle and connect and sit around fires and share stories and not know all the answers, but wonder and have awe and use that as signal of something bigger than us and connection to that. Patience isn't a virtue in a society where good is more bigger, better.
• 27:43
  Sometimes the patience is developed when you let go of the story, Mhmm. Again, shed the clothes that aren't yours off that story of more bigger, better. And you go, oh, okay. I could see that that was shaping my behavior. Doesn't need to.
• 28:00
  I'll be slower. I actually don't need patience. I actually just need presence in the moment and an awareness around attention on what's happening. Maybe people would call that patient because they are rushing. Is patient just a signal of how fast you are moving in relation to another object?
• 28:18
  Right? I don't know.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The present. That makes so much sense. Yeah. Because I've always found that almost like a the rushing has always kind of generated a forced creativity.
• 28:38
  It's like, right. I've gotta, like, I've got to figure out the answers. I've got to do this and this and this and this. But it's amazing because all of my amazing ideas that have always been great ideas have not come when I'm like sat at a desk trying to force it out. They've come when I'm like on my own or with my partner going on a walk in the middle of nowhere and she's hit me like a thunderbolt.
• 29:01
  I'm like, that's it. Like, that's it. And yeah, that's that's fascinating because also I kind of come back to because I know we've spoken previously about some of Napoleon Hill's book, of Napoleon Hill's work. And it's interesting because he spoke about in so in his book, Think and Grow Rich, he almost kind of spoke about like kind of capitalist society in a way of the that we used to prey on people physically. Whereas now, because that's not really a thing that we're not like, you know, killing each other to like steal food from that tribe or whatever, especially in the part, well, anyway, in the part of the world that we're in.
• 29:46
  So we prey on each other financially now in a different sort of way that the role is sort of like happened. So almost like that, it's really interesting how you said about things like the law of attraction kind of like stemming from you always hear that like money's the thing that's like reverted to. But you know the thing that I'd love your your thoughts on is that, I remember Earl Nightingale, something that really kind of struck with me that he said in his have you ever heard his recording, The Strangest Secret?
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: I don't remember it. Doesn't mean I haven't heard it, but I'll look at it.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: It's probably about thirty minutes, but it was really fascinating. He was but he said something which was, most people think that money breeds success, but actually success breeds money. So it almost kind of being that like And the thing that has always kind of like ran through my mind is that the money that you receive in life is purely a reward for the quantity and quality of service that you have provided. So for me that then goes like, right, I need to ensure for the, you know, if let's say if money was my goal, for example, that actually I need to be able to provide the highest quality and quantity of service that I can provide. But in terms of service, I think the thing that's kind of like where I'm going out with this is that one of the first things that you said on here is that I'm here to serve.
• 31:23
  Like that almost like relationship with the word serve, I really do feel that we have a culture maybe of like that lack of service and not just service in terms of like, I'm providing a service in exchange for money, but that, that like feeling of I am of service to someone. And if I have served you, then that is success to me. Do you get what I'm saying?
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I mean, we're artists. We forget that we are expressing who we are. And I mean, depression is like an inner anger at ourselves for not being who we are or expressing that to other people. It's like an inner frustration.
• 32:00
  I could be expressing more of who I am and I can't find the words or the way or the being or the the kind of sensations that I need to to kind of get it out of me. Yeah, I mean, you have a expression that is yours. Mine is different. But if we were to try and fit into the box of what good looks like, it'd be some vanilla version between us rather than the different truer thing where we recognize ourself in you being yourself. You know, Rick Rubin's book, The Creative Act, A Way of Being.
• 32:53
  I mean, listen to it, read it, touch the book. It's a beautiful it's a piece of art. But he talks about art and artists in a way where you're like, fuck, this is actually a book about living and being sensitive to life. Like you saying about when you're out walking or you're talking with your partner, I mean, that is you being creating the space for things to come into and through you. And we don't typically have space because we're jam packed.
• 33:25
  We have to be productive. We have to get more quantity, more quality, more units of output, therefore equals too good. No, we need more space. We need more vitamin P, which is parasympathetic activity, which is space so that we cannot think selfishly, but think altruistically. If we think selfishly individual, it's because we're stressed out of our brains and stuck in survival, which is an individual game.
• 33:52
  It's not collective, but we need more collective energy being transferred. That comes from feeling safe and from creating space. That's why you get that you called it a thunderbolt. I mean, what a beautiful symbol of the energy that those things contain versus I don't know what like a smaller thunderbolt would be little zinger you get from an electric fence, less charge, thunderbolt, Zeus wielded thunderbolts. Cows can bang against electric fences.
• 34:32
  It's a totally different quantity of energy. We have to listen. We have to attune. We have to be sensitive to those things. And then they will appear.
• 34:39
  If you're rushing around and there's no space, how do you expect other things or good things to fit?
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Just incorporating activities of mindfulness within your daily, within your day, almost like, you know, I really enjoyed the book, The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. And I think the thing I really enjoyed about it was not necessarily what I learned, but like the things that I've done off the back of it in terms of just creating that space between mind and presence. And I thought he, I can't remember how he articulated it, but he articulated it so beautifully in terms of like everything, everything is in that space. So is it as simple as, so almost like to really, you know, to discover your art, discover your, you know, what your heart beats for. Is it as simple as just creating more space through mindful activities throughout your life?
• 35:48
  Or are there other almost like kind of, I don't like to say steps, but like other things that you can do within the day or just in life that can kind of allow you to experience that more and more and more?
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Like, just see what you notice. You will notice different things than I will. That's different. Therefore, lean into it.
• 36:22
  What are you drawn to? My mentor asks me all the time, what are you drawn to? So now I'm just listening out for what I'm drawn to. I noticed the other day after I did a morning kind of workshop on Sunday morning, I was really nice to the person in the cafe afterwards. I'm like, oh, so I noticed, right?
• 36:42
  So I noticed the difference in how I came across or how I felt in the interaction. Like, that's interesting. So the information I took or the way I made sense of that is what I was doing before that is more of who I am than less. Right. So how I showed up to the the person in the cafe was the signal again towards information.
• 37:07
  This is good in my body. Lean into that. So I'm drawn to more work in that space. See what I mean? So it's just this is just always there, but we're not paying attention because we were so busy in our mind or we would just externalize that onto our phones.
• 37:27
  Dog, war, bad, like we've externalized what we think or how we feel and our emotions are just so up and down and out of our control, but we're not even paying attention. So some space to just notice and pay attention can be helpful. And then just I mean, the secret to it is to let go of all containers or expectations of it needing to be something else and let it just do what it is. If it's doodling on a piece of paper, writing in a journal, whatever it is, you could do something like morning pages, which is three, a four pages literally until your hand is broken. Right.
• 38:12
  Three F four pages without stopping in the morning as soon as you wake up the resistance to that kind of shoulds or expectations or containers to what's within you to come out haven't yet had an opportunity to kind of narrow who you are. That could be useful. That's from The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron Morning Pages, really simple exercise, but it's profound. There's lots of different things. Just notice, just notice.
• 38:45
  That's all awareness is. What are you noticing in the moment? I'm noticing you have a line of like a aligned halo.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Beam of light.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, notice.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: Thunderbolt from Zeus.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: Yes. Or Two Face from Batman. Yeah. Right. So so that's a noticing.
• 39:03
  I'm noticing the definition in your arms. I'm noticing your energy. I'm noticing the light that's around. Like, what do you notice? You'll notice different things.
• 39:11
  I was turning to my chair. I noticed the feeling under my feet. What are you noticing? That's mindfulness. It does not have to be on a mountain meditating.
• 39:20
  It's in the moment. What are you noticing? That's it.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: And then you're getting to the point that everything that you ever need is already here anyway. Like whether that's like information, whether that's yeah, because it's just but you've just got to notice it. I think the thing I'd love to kind of like tie this to because I know that you're, you know, you're helping coaches to then almost like, you know, in terms of we look at like this should, I know that like myself, but I've noticed in the coaching industry that there has been so much almost that coaching is dictating, coaching is here's the plan, follow the plan versus, and there's a lot of that should, it's like, right, you should do this. In terms of, cause there'll be a lot of coaches listening to this and I know my listeners are very much around, I want to become the best coach, not just about learning more facts and figures or anything, but how I can have the greatest impact on another individual. Like what's almost like your observation of that and where the coaching industry, maybe not industry, but the mechanism by which people coach, where that is at the moment and where it really needs to, the direction it needs to actually be going in.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Well, listen to the words that you use. I want to have a bigger impact on the person in front of me or the client. So what that means is I need you to do certain things so I feel I'm having an impact. Right?
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: Horseshit. So what that means is I need the world outside of me to be in the right order so I'm okay inside. Do you think the world will ever be how you want it? How I want it? How my mom wants it?
• 41:21
  How yours wants it? How could it ever meet 8,000,000,000 people's version of truth? It can't. We have to just accept what is in front of us initially, right? Not steer the future or steer people and when they don't hit, what happens is we shame people and say, you don't belong here because you didn't do what I wanted you to do.
• 41:46
  Horseshit. Right? Bad plan. For you to have an impact on somebody else, help them impact themselves, help them grow, steer, feel useful, develop confidence, become who they are, cast off what they're not. That's the impact because then, then they live, they have information and you can go, have you tried it?
• 42:10
  Test this out. From my experience, here's what I've found. And then it's like I did a video of this a while ago and it's like we typically coach to the cup and we never look inside the cup to see what the person can already bring. So there's full of coffee and we're like, do you want some coffee? Horse shit.
• 42:33
  Wrong approach. Ask. So raise awareness, increase responsibility to do something with the information. That's the purpose of coaching. Raise awareness.
• 42:46
  Here's what you want. Raise awareness of that. Why do you want it? Okay. What's the impact if you don't move towards that?
• 42:52
  Okay, that's cool. Where are you now? So you can't get to where you want to get to if you don't know where you're starting from. Where are you now? What's the cost of that?
• 43:01
  Why is it useful to move from that? Okay, that's cool. What could you do? Oh, you think those two things? Okay.
• 43:08
  I'd suggest maybe there's also this third one, which do you think you would like to do? I'll do one out of the three. I'll actually do the three out of the three. So they have autonomy. They have agency.
• 43:19
  They have choice. They're not being told by an authority figure. You are good if you follow, you're bad if you don't. We're both partnering. They're getting to choose their path because they can also choose to ask for support and guidance or accountability.
• 43:40
  I don't do any accountability with my clients. Why would I do that? They're adults. I create the space for them to figure out what they want to commit to. If they don't wanna commit to stuff, they're not clear enough why it benefits them.
• 43:53
  They know it benefits you because it has done. Just needs to be a better quality of conversation.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Everything you just articulate there is actually from the coaches part questions that it's less dictating and it's more everything you've just said there is you're opening the space up with questions for them to seek the answer inside.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow. And the world operates in a certain thing. So like you'll tell me about insulin, but if I just apply one model of insulin and my body makeup is very different and we're not taking feedback or having again the conversation in the middle.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: Perfect plan in book does like, like reality will shit on that book. You should go, no, that's not everything. You forgot about the top and tail. You forgot about the exceptions. So we have to have the conversation in the middle, the touch point between these theories or ideas or frameworks or models and reality and update in between.
• 44:56
  And that's the kind of dance in the moment that actually makes coaching and conversation exciting. But we've moved away from that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Isn't what these things actually are? They're frameworks, like they're frameworks, but we can be very good at doing that. No, they're rules that I have to go by.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Where's the space for play? Where's the space for agency? Where's the space for like adapting it to a busy mother who has no time? And all you're doing is saying, here's more things that you're not meeting.
• 45:33
  Is that adding suffering to the world or reducing it? I would say it's, it's, it's adding to, it's adding suffering and it's using shame. And I think that that's the wrong way around. Better way would be to say you're actually doing really well. I mean, you're moving every day.
• 45:50
  Your niece is excellent. What do you think you could fit in over the next two weeks that might be useful to take you forward? Oh, well, actually, when I'm I'm minding my baby, I could do press ups with her. Oh, okay, cool. Like they'll find the stuff that fits within what they are already doing.
• 46:10
  It's in the flow of their lives, not in addition and to kind of takes them out of it. And they're shamed if they don't. But I was living my life. Yeah. Okay, cool.
• 46:19
  We can do that. We can facilitate you living your life and you can still make different choices in the moment. We could talk about that. It's creating space for choice in the moment that serves who they want to become in the in the future. More or less.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Anyway, yeah, but that's such a do you know the thing that I find quite sad is that that I feel that that that almost, philosophy of coaching that isn't spoken about towards coaches that, like, we're almost kind of left to try and figure out our own coaching style. And maybe a lot of that has come from having coaches that we've had previously. So it's like, oh, they did it like that. So I will do my own version of that. And that came from pure dictation.
• 47:14
  So it almost being that because everything you've just articulated there is you're allowing people to, like you said, you're creating the space for someone to reveal the answers that they already have within them. And also it's then moving towards what they truly want as opposed to almost like, no, no, you want that. You have to go after that.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Cause I'll feel better about myself if you do that. Cause I can put it on Instagram to advertise that I'm a good coach. Not you're an amazing person.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: That's not there. That's not there because a a before and after is someone will see a before and after, oh, that's a marketing tool. That's, you know, that's for referrals. What a sad place to be.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: And I mean, there's no place for failure there either. And I mean, we, we adapt through evolution with plus or minus as in more off we survive, less off this. But there's no room for that experimentation or space for failure in plans or frameworks or models because that's not good. But failure is how I and you learned how to walk, right? Failure is a part of trees growing towards the sunlight, birds learning to sing their song.
• 48:33
  They don't get it right first time, but they still grow towards singing the song. It's experimentation. Where's the space for experimentation? Where's the invitation, not demand? Where's the invitation to experimentation?
• 48:53
  That's
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: it. Experimentation brings the you said that word or about things again, because then yeah.
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: It's light. It's not a sympathetic response of I'll survive or belong if I meet these certain criteria and I feel shame if I don't. Experimentation allows that more playful, like I can, oh, I did even more today. Oh, I missed it today, but I'm not gonna beat myself up because we're experimenting. We hold it a little bit lighter and it does not contain us, what's possible, what we might become, what we might do or our life or any of that kind of stuff.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: And does that come down to playing an infinite game versus a finite game? So in terms of the almost like I read, oh, you recommended it. You did recommend it. 10x is easier than 2x. Like in the terms of almost like the, you know, there was many lessons I got from that.
• 49:57
  I think in terms of the conversation that we're having now, I think it's almost like that, like Michelangelo just going like I chipped away at everything that wasn't David. Like that's effectively in a similar sort of capacity.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: I took up all of
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: the clothes that weren't mine. And then, and in a similar case, I think the thing I almost kind of really got, they were saying like, look, this is an infinite game. This isn't a, oh, I need this business to be a success in three months time or I am a failure or in six months time or I am a failure. It's, you know, and I was talking to Lenny about this and he was talking about retirement. Retirement for me.
• 50:34
  I'm like, I'm just on this path and this is the path I'm on and I'm in pursuit of that. And that's the infinite game. So viewing it through the lens of like, I know for me, whenever I, because you know, I'd be lying if I know that I myself or the coaches that I coach have never got into that mindset of, oh, it needs to be a success and kind of shouting at the seed. I think one of the things that has definitely really helped myself and a lot of the coaches has been viewing it in terms of that experimentation, in terms of like, look, this is this is the, you know, the infinite side of things. So, yeah.
• 51:14
  So how can you adopt them? Because, you know, how can you adopt the mindset of like, look, I am experimenting in the playful aspect of things. How can you almost like, you know, so that's if we've got a coach with, you know, their own business or a coach in terms of their own, you know, all of it their own life. How can we almost kind of like, you know, take the first steps to get into that, like that, that playful, because I almost kind of feel that whether it's like, you know, daddy's approval, you need permission to go and have that. And maybe it comes back to the, oh, it's not hard, so it's wrong.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So let me tell you a separate story and then I'll link it back to what you've just asked me. I read about enlightenment and I read that there was 10 stages or steps towards it. And anywhere, anytime you hear like this linear path, it's very masculine. That's a masculine thing.
• 52:14
  Let me plan and I'll achieve the thing. Right. And I spoke to my therapist. I have two of so many people that I work with and because of broken Callum. I'm just kidding.
• 52:31
  She I said this to her, I said, oh, one of the things I'm working on is enlightenment. And she's like, oh, okay, tell me about it. And I said, oh, yeah, there's 10 stages and 10 steps and I don't know what they are, but I'm going to figure it out. And she said, Philip, just get rid of everything between you and is that tells you that it's not possible. Right.
• 52:55
  And then I walked Elvis and this is going to sound mad, but hey, fuck it. Right. I went for a walk with Elvis after that conversation and I've had a profound experience just looking at a tree. And I've had a few of them since. And enlightenment is not on a Buddhist hill.
• 53:14
  Enlightenment. I mean, we could do it right now. You could be enlightened literally in this conversation. It's not unattainable. It's attainable to everyone.
• 53:23
  Just think it's far away from us. It's the same with this experimentation or playfulness in the moment. What is stopping you from doing that? Let go of it and then just treat it a little bit more playfully because there'll be something that will stop you behaving in the business that way or showing up in that way. Just examine that.
• 53:48
  See what it is. You said something else that I was going to come back to, and
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: I On know what it the the enlightenment side of things. Because I'm I'm fascinated with that. I've almost like the the just the the connection with almost like that, almost like connection with, I know almost, the only way I can explain it is almost kind of Paulo Coelho said in the Alchemist was like the soul of the world. Like that, what did you remove to to to have that just that that sensation of connection? If you don't mind me asking.
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, it was last year. I think it's that it wasn't possible for me. I haven't done the work. I don't know that I'm good enough.
• 54:35
  I'm not person X who I was comparing and I'd heard it talk about it. What will this mean for afterwards? How can I live a normal life? Do I need to move to Tibet? Right.
• 54:51
  I mean, lots of stuff. And I just went and just the thing. I mean, we can do it. I mean, like, there it is again. It's like just the thing, just the space that you go to.
• 55:05
  The second part, though, about the playfulness and experimentation. I mean, so that was some of the reasons why I couldn't do the enlightenment thing. Right. But I mean, for experimentation to play, it's typically because we're stressed out of our brains, whether that's physical capacity or not resting, overwork, living up to the expectations of others or just mentally. I mean, the dopamine brain dump that we have from looking at our phones, we just don't have the capacity for experimentation or play within our bodies or minds.
• 55:40
  Right. So there's a part of it that's also just the decompression and our deep recovery or just any kind of recovery so that actually there's the space or the capacity within your system to be able to handle play because play is loose, it's unbounded. There's no rules, there's no containers. But in that state, when we're so used to rules and containers to provide a safety and belonging, We need to be in that regulated parasympathetic type state to achieve that. But we can problem solve there very differently, very differently.
• 56:15
  I mean, one simple thing that you can do is actually just juggle juggling distracts your conscious mind. It gets into a little bit of a rhythm and a routine Tetris supposedly is really good. Extending exhales test dancing around your kitchen and then think of every reason why you shouldn't do it. That's the barriers between you and experimentation who might see me. I can't do that.
• 56:39
  I'm not a good dancer. Couldn't do. Not good enough. Not like horseshit. All horseshit.
• 56:45
  Just do the fucking thing and see what happens.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: That's done through activation of the parasympathetic nervous system.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: Sorry?
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: So to so would you say that almost like that, you know, we're we're very much in a sympathetic state consistently. It's like everything is sympathetic nervous system, go, go, go, go, go, and then we're fried. So would you say that like the pursuit, not necessarily the pursuit, but the action of like, because those things, like you said, like prolonged exhales, they're things that activate your parasympathetic nervous system. So those sorts of activities, there's an imbalance, isn't there? Like within life.
• 57:26
  All of those activities are almost like the root to almost, well, presence, isn't it?
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: Vitamin P, I've thought about this long, deep, hard for a long time. Parasympathetic activity is the antidote to every problem that we're solving at the moment or trying to solve at a global scale. We just need the world to exhale. And then there'd be room for nature. There'd be room for a recovery of the climate.
• 57:55
  There'd be recovery of leaders at each other trying to win the argument of being right rather than the problem solving of where we're going. Everything is based on the space of parasympathetic activation because otherwise sympathetic just triggers all childhood guilt and shame and retreat and down and in and what will protect me. And I need more money. I need to hold on to stuff rather than again, how might I serve and give my heart and give my being and give who I am and lead wholeheartedly rather than from a sympathetic place. It's not useful.
• 58:28
  It's not compassionate. Compassion is different. And we need more compassion in the world. We need more alleviating suffering. And I don't think you can do that when you're only thinking about surviving today.
• 58:41
  Yeah. Parasympathetic activity is profound and it's in every exhale. I mean, it's not far away. We don't need to do major changes, but it's too simple. It's like you had shit under your nose.
• 58:53
  You're going to lose how simple it is over time or how kind of, oh, it's so powerful. But then over a day, like it goes. So we are unaware of how small it is and the impact that it could have. But I'm going to try and push people towards invite people towards it, not push.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: No, no, no. Yeah. No. Yeah. You know, it's amazing because I remember I spoke to you in the toilet actually when we were speaking at the summit.
• 59:24
  I was talking about almost like, because I'm a big superhero fan anyway. And like Moon Knight, how he has all of these different personas and almost being that and I that at places kind of like that I've come from with my own almost like mindfulness is that that voice that berates me. That I should do that. You're not good enough. It's very, when you're being very, very unkind to yourself.
• 59:51
  I don't believe that. Like, but there is a, there is a, that's what it is. It's just a voice, which means that that's not me. And, and, and almost like I found the more I've been able to detach from that, well, those aren't my thoughts. And that's where I found that because when you speak about vitamin P, I've definitely almost kind of like tried to get that that sort of balance.
• 1:00:21
  But like, you know, doing more, you know, like mindfulness has become such, I found it in yoga with myself and just going for, just going for walks in nature without headphones and really just being present there has enabled me to kind of do that. But it's amazing when I'm doing those sorts of activities, that voice isn't loud or my ability to not internalize those thoughts of my own is heightened so much more. So I almost kind of feel like the question I was almost kind of coming to you at is I feel that we're very good at doing something. It gives us like, you know, I've meditated, it made me feel really good, and then I'm just not going to do it ever again. So almost like how can we build that into our own daily routines and take such a, you know, I know that's the million dollar question.
• 1:01:16
  How can we just keep doing that over and over and over and over and over again? But how can we almost kind of like take the steps to incorporate this into something that we do on a regular basis where it becomes part of us?
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's update your identity that it's included as part of it. Maybe it's yeah. Like, even even softening the expectation that if I don't do it every day, it's bad. Right? So more I wanna meditate more.
• 1:02:07
  I mean and meditating isn't go to the forest because there'll be days and weeks where you can't do that. So it's just a I mean, I want to practice mindful attention more often. Right? And there's been days recently where I haven't even thought about it or even noticed that I was breathing. Just as an example.
• 1:02:30
  But I've done it twice since we've started talking very briefly, but that's twice. I don't judge the days before that I haven't done it. They're already gone. In this moment, let me test it again. Okay, cool.
• 1:02:49
  Like, that's it. It just becomes who you are, not what you do. And you just soften the expectation of what it means to introduce more of it or less of it into your life. And it's in the next moment that you get to choose. Do I want more of it in my life?
• 1:03:07
  Okay. Might I do it now? Not yet. I'll wait till seven Okay, cool.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: It's so simple. No, that's so simple.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: It's the truth, though. It's the truth. You want to drink more water? Make it fucking easy. Have it beside you.
• 1:03:25
  You want to work less? Put a timer in your phone that goes off at five and says, I'm not working after five. Okay, that's cool. Notice what happens at 05:01. All the stories that get in the way, you'll notice the resistance.
• 1:03:39
  It'll present itself. And if you go back to your like inner critic or whatever language you want to use to describe that, that inner voice in a so let's go back to the hermit crab, hermit crab leaving existing shell. You get what's called edge emotions. Emotions trigger thoughts. So if the edge emotion is from a place of fear or I'm leaving the confines of the shell and I left behind safety, I can't do that.
• 1:04:14
  So the emotion you'll get would be fear, insecurities that bubble in your system, in your body. We don't have awareness of that. How we have awareness of that is the thought or the inner voice. So then we get it when it's a little bit delayed. And of course it's going to be heavy, dark, negative, bad.
• 1:04:36
  Right. That's information to tell me one of two things. You need to recover a little bit. You're probably a little bit stressed in your system and you probably need to get really clear on why you are growing and you're still committed to it. Because if you are well, then that voice loses some of its power.
• 1:04:57
  It signals just are you committed to moving forward? That's the invitation. But we judge it as bad because it feels uncomfortable. But if you changed that voice's name to Margaret, oh, it's just Margaret having a go with me, but I'm growing.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: We could playfully listen, but realize it's just a part of growth. Those edge emotions presented as thoughts, but you were in the driver's seat. It can come along in the passenger seat, but make sure it's fucking there. You have to hold the steering wheel, which goes back to what we talked about at the start. Steer your own fucking car.
• 1:05:38
  Those thoughts are not yours. They're probably somebody else's. And if they are yours, they're just thoughts. They're not real. They're just a thought.
• 1:05:52
  And it's just your body and mind going, whatever I need to put in front of you so that you do not leave safety, I'll do it. You're looking a bit fat today. You're awful. You haven't read enough books. A thousand.
• 1:06:06
  No, no, no. That's not 10,000 horseshit. It's all horseshit. It'll do whatever it needs to do. But if we take it as an invitation, oh, that's that thing that Philip mentioned, the inner critic, that's that invitation to test.
• 1:06:19
  Am I committed? Do I need to recover? Am I really ready to grow? Yeah. Yes to all three.
• 1:06:28
  Okay, fuck it. Let's go. I think that that's it. Right? Just a thought.
• 1:06:36
  It's just a voice. Change it to Margaret. You laugh when it shows up. Oh, Margaret, will you ever shut up and get into the back seat of the car? You're not even allowed in the front.
• 1:06:45
  Like, shut up Margaret, sit down in the corner, like whatever you need to do, just play with it rather than judge it. If you judge it and try and push it away, it'll hang around and get louder. The best way to overcome like stage fright or nerves invite your nerves beside you. Do not push them away.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: Jay, it's interesting you say that because before I spoke at the summit, was so nervous, like so nervous. And like, I mean, I was heart palpitations, feeling nausea, etcetera. And for me, I was like, this is excitement. I didn't label it as nerves and through a lens of failure. When I have done that previously, that's when it's ended up in the negative place that I had almost kind of envisioned already and that negative outcome happened.
• 1:07:41
  But it was almost kind of, no, actually this is excitement and this is almost like the energy, here's all of the energy that's available to you to go and do that thing. And then when you see that, you then almost kind of like you said, invite that feeling because then I'm like, right, I'm ready. Like I am ready and I am capable to do this. But you know, the thing as well that you keep reverting to is that I know it's so pumped out, like why are you doing it? The why are you doing it?
• 1:08:14
  And it's almost like you've got to know your why. But it's almost like the more I've gone down on my own journey, that feeling is when I'm connected with people that I get into, that there's that that critic is loud when I'm not with people and I'm not connecting with people, conversing with people and serving people. And it's amazing that, you know, that resistance that is there is almost like to avoid going and, you know, going and, socializing in that specific way, going and doing that. So I think the question that I would have is because like that, you know, there may be so many coaches who are listening to this and it's like, you know, that they experience that same thing. They have that resistance that how can you change your relationship with that resistance in the way that you've just kind of like said there by going that like no that that's necessary for growth and that actually like this is you know that that's the direction for you to kind of go through.
• 1:09:22
  How can you lean into that instead of shy away from that and almost like give into it? Or is it as simple as almost kind of what what you've just said there?
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: It's it's part of the journey. Resist. So so can I tell you my theory about life?
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, please do.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 3: My theory about life is that the antidote to death is to open as much to life as you possibly can because death is the ultimate closing. Your vision narrows. It goes from light to black. You're hearing goes from hearing all sounds well within a frequency to zero taste, touch, smell, everything goes to zero, at least in that moment. Okay, I don't know what happens afterwards.
• 1:10:09
  I don't know anybody that does. So if that's the case, having an openness to life is some of the work. When you open to life, the yin yang symbol is just a part of it. Your body is built to survive. It will throw up fears, thoughts and insecurities as you move and grow beyond what is today.
• 1:10:38
  Because it goes. You sure you don't like you're going to die if you do something different. Everything is a threat beyond today. Do you want to like, are you sure you want to go through this? It's just the signal of growth.
• 1:10:50
  So any resistance I mean, I wrote down headwinds help planes fly. Right. So we greet resistance and we've heard stories and we inherit stories from other people to say when you feel fear, doubt, insecurity, anger, frustration, anxiety, whatever equals bad. So because they're bad or we're told they're bad, we push them away. So we add resistance to resistance.
• 1:11:19
  Resistance squared or multiplied by itself is just going to get bigger. It's just a mathematical thing, right? Instead of just accepting, oh, fear is present. This is part of the journey of growth. And I think what happens is because we resist it, it hangs around and it feels bigger than it is.
• 1:11:40
  So in the yin yang circle, all our attention goes to the dark and we forget what we could get from change, what we're going to become, who we're going to meet, the impact we're going to have, all that bright side stuff, the skills will develop, the emotions will feel that are good. I mean, feels great. Right. But we forget that part because we're caught in pushing the fear away because we're told it's bad. It's not bad.
• 1:12:07
  Just literally part of the story. Welcome it. It's going to help you fly. But you don't have to. You can stay where you are, but then don't get bitter that your life is small and it will only ever get smaller.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: No, honestly, like, wow. Yeah. It's changing relationship with fear, isn't it? Like, completely.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: Welcome us. Welcome Open heartedly greet us. It is an act of love, not bad.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: Cogs turning here,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: It's okay. Let them turn.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, think that's fantastic because again, it kind of ties back to the should of almost like you shouldn't be scared of that. Like, that shouldn't be like that that fear shouldn't be there versus it's seeing it as that when that that situation is there. Yeah, it's a mate. Yeah. When that fear is there, it's like lean into it and be like, okay, right.
• 1:13:16
  That is that is fear and resistance that's necessary moving to wow. Yeah. I think it's fantastic.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: Can I build on it again?
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: Please do. Please.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: So that's one point zero. Two point zero is you were not the figure. You're just experiencing the sensation or aware of the sensation of fear. So we identify with it because we feel it within our bodies because we're identified with our bodies. But you're not that.
• 1:13:45
  You're beyond that because you were also happy a second ago. So you're happy and fear. No, you're different again. You're like a neutral observer to both of those things. So if you just observe same like a cold water exposure, just we so we think it must be hard or bad.
• 1:14:03
  Let's call it bad because then we can do the same, but negative emotions. If you go from a sauna to cold water and you are just curious about the difference in sensation, watch how differently you greet the cold water. Do you think you'll be more relaxed or less? More, right? Because you're not adding this resistance to this is gonna be hard.
• 1:14:31
  You're gonna tighten. You're telling your body this is a threat. This is bad. Must move away. Is that gonna increase parasympathetic activity?
• 1:14:38
  Absolutely fucking not.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: Just so interesting you said that because I was in Wales with my best friend last weekend, and I've been practicing cold water exposure for quite a long time. And he's got a lake by him and it was completely frozen over. And I'd never been in a frozen lake before. And it was interesting because he'd never done any form of never even had a cold shower before. So like for me to kind of I was literally throwing him in at the d bed.
• 1:15:09
  But we were standing on the jetty and the difference between the two is that he would, and I completely understand because I'm not being funny like it's fucking Baltic. Like this thing is like frozen over. But like we've got it on camera and you can actually see us both. Not that either one is right. It was just different.
• 1:15:26
  In that you could see I was entering in with a state of curiosity that I was just curious to see like, okay, I've been in a freezing cold tub before. I've been in like freezing cold like shower. I'm really interested to see the difference and how this is. And it was amazing just in like, you know, naturally you get that, you know, that, that reflex initially, but it was, it was amazing. And the difference between the two of us, because for me, I was just in there just solely from a place of curiosity and interest.
• 1:16:04
  And again, it's the lens that you're viewing something through, isn't it? And I find how you've just said that they're almost like, you know, you're stepping into something with that. I'm just gonna see the difference in sensation that whether that's, you know, within your business, within your life, like, you know, because then you look curiosity. That then breeds that awe, that playfulness, that experimentation. And and yeah.
• 1:16:30
  I really love how all of this, like, fits together, and it makes so much sense in my mind. And I'm sure that everyone listening to this makes so much sense there.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: To summarize, your heart is a valve. It opens and closes. You talked about curiosity. That's an openness to life. The opposite is that kind of a sympathetic, like, me judge this and let me close off what's possible in this moment.
• 1:16:59
  Like, that's the difference. Do you choose in the next moment to open or close? And supposedly, to Michael A. Singer in the untethered soul, the way to stay open is to never close.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: See, that's a beautiful and so simple but powerful way of viewing that. Because then you're, like you said, open to life. And what an exciting So the first thing you said to me being, I'm just excited to see what's possible. What an exciting lens to view life through of what's possible. I really that that is so profound.
• 1:17:42
  And I would love to finish on that in all honesty. That's fine. Because, I'm conscious of your time. But then also I think that is so beautiful and such a powerful way to view, you know, not even just for, you know, business success or coaching, because also like, you know, even with clients, you're showing them, you're opening them up to like what's possible within and, and yeah, planting this. I yeah, I'm kind of lost for words in all honesty, in all honesty, because you've made such a, you know, such a powerful concept, so simple and easy to understand and grasp.
• 1:18:20
  And also, think the thing that I've really loved about really listening to you is that there's no like, right, you need to do this or you need to do that. It's almost like they're like, you can see my my wheels are turning. It's like, let them turn. And
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: yeah, and I don't know where I'm going either. And that's okay.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah,
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: that's okay.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: So on your journey now, so the journey you are on, in terms of, because you mentioned to me before that you're really going down the route of, helping coach it. So what does that what's that starting to look like for you?
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: So so I typically work with PT's gym owners as part of my work. I also work with business owners, entrepreneurs and kind of senior leaders within corporate world literally from around the world, America, as far over as Singapore and like Australia. I'm speaking to somebody on Thursday morning I do coaching, but now I'm also developing to support and develop fellow coaches, kind of the mindset leadership coaches. And what it's looking like is as coaches, our clients can project onto us stuff and we can sometimes be jumbled by it and unsure of who we are in relation to that.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: And
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 3: what I try to help people do is hold what's theirs to hold and help them give back to their clients what's their clients to hold, but also just find out them as a coach, who they are, how they want to be, what they're doing for their own development, how to help them kind of lean into things that they're curious about. And yeah, just play and experiment with what it means to be a coach, because if you follow certain accreditation bodies like the ICF or the Association for Coaching or EMCC or AOEC, they have very containerized versions of what coaching is and what good coaching looks like. And I struggle with being contained because I don't know what I am or who I am and I'm uncontained and so are you and so are we. So, yeah, just probably give people permission to find the shape of them as a coach and what their coaching might look like for them.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: Ripple effect. There.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Just like a yeah. How do we keep it clean and you rather than dirty because it's everyone else's?
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: Because I I think that that I I felt my my brother my brother has a very, very, very I I really should connect you both because I feel he would really benefit a lot from your experience because he's he's just starting his coaching journey in that sense and shares a very, very, very similar philosophy in that sense. And I just can't help but think of you talking there of the ripple effect that that can have, because almost kind of like allowing a coach to discover what is almost like their heart is beating for aids their own practice of helping others discover what their heart is beating for. That's beautiful work. Not that it needs judgment, but it is beautiful work. That, yeah, I feel that that is a message that isn't isn't shared enough.
• 1:22:29
  So I feel a lot of excitement towards towards your journey. So can I just say once again, honestly, this has been breathtaking in all honesty? It really, really has. I knew it would I wasn't sure in the direction that the conversation would go, but that's the excitement and the beauty of it. But your wisdom is just, yeah, amazing.
• 1:22:54
  And there's so many seeds that are in my head. I have no doubt that for someone who is listening to this, that there'll be many seeds of, yeah, possibility and awe and excitement. So I feel truly honored to have you on. So thank you so much. Where can everyone find you?
• 1:23:17
  Because I'm sure that there very much could be someone listening to this who has really connected with you in the same sort of capacity that I have. Where can someone find you, connect with you, and potentially start taking their first steps to really kind of like, you know, uncovering what their heart beats for?
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: You'll find me in the forest, but don't come looking. I'm recovering. I'm just kidding. Leave me alone. Leave me alone.
• 1:23:48
  I want my space. Vitamin P Coaching is my Instagram handle. Philip Brady is my name, and I'm just always happy to serve. That's it. You know?
• 1:24:05
  That's it.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much, honestly. You have been and thank you for such a beautiful conversation. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Thank you very much.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: You're welcome. Much love.