Latest / Stacked with Jennifer Laforge / Danica Nelson - You're Funding a Life You Don't Even Want

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Danica Nelson - You're Funding a Life You Don't Even Want · Stacked with Jennifer Laforge

• 0:00
  Jen LaForge: Welcome to Stat.
• 0:01
  Jen LaForge: I'm Jen LeForge.
• 0:02
  Jen LaForge: This is a show about how real people and real brands are stretching value in today's economy.
• 0:07
  Jen LaForge: Not theory, not generic money advice.
• 0:09
  Jen LaForge: We're getting into how rewards, loyalty, partnerships, and digital tools actually work and how they're being used in real life.
• 0:17
  Jen LaForge: Let's jump in.
• 0:18
  Jen LaForge: We are living in a world where it is becoming easier and faster to purchase and buy and spend sometimes without even realizing that we're doing it or that we even wanted it, which puts us in a precarious position as consumers.
• 0:35
  Jen LaForge: But I've got great news.
• 0:37
  Jen LaForge: I am joined today by Danika Nelson, a curator and a voice on financial savviness, intentional living, and the psychology of money.
• 0:47
  Jen LaForge: So she's going to help us really understand what's going on inside those customer journeys, inside ourselves, but also how to be very smart and intentional with our lives so that we can still reap value from our everyday shopping.
• 1:01
  Jen LaForge: So, Danica, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:04
  Jen LaForge: Let's start.
• 1:05
  Jen LaForge: I have a big heavy question for you.
• 1:07
  Jen LaForge: And it's around this idea that people continue to fund and spend on a lifestyle that they don't even want.
• 1:16
  Jen LaForge: Can you tell us a little bit about that dynamic and how prevalent it is in today's world?
• 1:23
  Danica Nelson: It's unfortunately very prevalent in today's world.
• 1:25
  Danica Nelson: And I think it is a combination of social conditioning.
• 1:29
  Danica Nelson: We have been kind of sold this dream that in order to be seen as successful, we need to, you know, get the good job, the nine to five job, buy the house, and buy the things that signal, you know, success, whether that's a nice car, nice clothes, et cetera.
• 1:44
  Danica Nelson: And then also I would say social media is playing a huge impact in this.
• 1:49
  Danica Nelson: We see people always having sporting like the coolest clothes, they're doing unboxing videos, they're doing the hauls.
• 1:55
  Danica Nelson: It's almost been normalized that we should be acquiring all these goods to signal success.
• 2:00
  Danica Nelson: And unfortunately, it's detrimental to, you know, society because people are spending well beyond their means to kind of keep up an image.
• 2:07
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 2:08
  Jen LaForge: And I think there was a point in time right after the pandemic when there was a lot of economic pressure where things like uh wearing dirty shoes instead of white shoes became popular for a minute, or women were moving towards balayage because it was less expensive and lasted longer than than than full hair treatments.
• 2:27
  Jen LaForge: So there was like this moment in time where we started to go in reverse and then we bounced right back, right?
• 2:33
  Jen LaForge: So, what's going on there in terms of how economic pressures are influencing our reaction to all those pressures?
• 2:40
  Jen LaForge: It was an aggressive bounce back.
• 2:43
  Danica Nelson: It was a very aggressive bounce back.
• 2:45
  Danica Nelson: And I think a lot of it is kind of like revenge spending.
• 2:48
  Danica Nelson: A lot of us are trying to take back those years that we lost during the pandemic.
• 2:52
  Danica Nelson: And, you know, a lot of the recession indicators you mentioned, like the balayage and things like that, and doing our own DIY nails, those things got old very quickly.
• 3:01
  Danica Nelson: And, you know, we're trying to, you know, find our way back to our former selves.
• 3:04
  Danica Nelson: But again, unfortunately, sometimes at a detriment because the economy is not looking so great right now.
• 3:10
  Danica Nelson: People are struggling financially, but still have these desires to keep up a certain look.
• 3:16
  Jen LaForge: And how detrimental is it that your identity be so tied to these activities or spending occasions that are ongoing and consistent.
• 3:27
  Jen LaForge: I mean, that seems like a very expensive way to be a person and not very authentic.
• 3:33
  Jen LaForge: What can you say to that?
• 3:35
  Danica Nelson: It's extremely detrimental because a lot of the times people are comparing themselves to people who we only have access to their highlight reels.
• 3:43
  Danica Nelson: One of my favorite quotes is don't compare your behind-the-scenes footage to someone else's highlight reel.
• 3:48
  Danica Nelson: We see a lot of these influencers who have all of the cool and flashy things, but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
• 3:55
  Danica Nelson: And even normal people who we see with a lot of flashy things, we don't know what their credit card statements look like.
• 4:00
  Danica Nelson: We don't know if they're in debt.
• 4:02
  Danica Nelson: We don't know if collections are calling them things like that.
• 4:04
  Danica Nelson: We really need to be only paying attention to our own stories and kind of muting the background noise.
• 4:10
  Jen LaForge: I think that's an important message.
• 4:11
  Jen LaForge: I'm glad we started off right away with that.
• 4:14
  Jen LaForge: Now you talk a lot about designing a life with freedom.
• 4:18
  Jen LaForge: Let's start that conversation with you just telling us what a life with freedom means to you.
• 4:25
  Danica Nelson: Yeah, to me, a life with freedom means living life on your own terms, not necessarily a life that was sold to you.
• 4:32
  Danica Nelson: As I mentioned earlier, a lot of us have been sold a dream that we have to have, you know, the stable nine to five job, one job that often we carry for as long as possible to reap the benefits and the pension and the matches and things like that.
• 4:45
  Danica Nelson: Uh, we've been told that we have to have, like, you know, get a nice car, have some children.
• 4:49
  Danica Nelson: That's what the idea of success is.
• 4:52
  Danica Nelson: And for me, I realized that actually doesn't really align with my idea of success.
• 4:57
  Danica Nelson: I like, you know, dabbling in multiple different ways to earn income.
• 5:01
  Danica Nelson: I like doing content creation, for example.
• 5:03
  Danica Nelson: I like doing financial education and, you know, teaching other women how to like overcome things like burnout and things like that to live their best lives.
• 5:12
  Danica Nelson: I also don't like having, you know, one home full time.
• 5:15
  Danica Nelson: In 2023, I sold my home and I live part-time abroad, typically in like Malaga, Spain, and Chiang Mai, Thailand, um, because I like doing those things.
• 5:24
  Danica Nelson: I like dabbling in different cultures, learning new languages, coming back home to Toronto to, you know, connect with my friends and family when I like to.
• 5:32
  Danica Nelson: Ultimately, for me, a life of freedom or freedom lifestyle is a life on my own terms and not necessarily buying into a dream that was sold to me because that wasn't really my dream to begin with.
• 5:42
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 5:42
  Jen LaForge: I d I think we're all questioning the dreams that we we've we bought into these days.
• 5:48
  Jen LaForge: But uh, this seems like a great segue.
• 5:49
  Jen LaForge: My favorite question to ask uh our guests are what does value mean to you?
• 5:54
  Jen LaForge: And I feel like you answered it a little bit as a as it relates to a lifestyle of freedom.
• 6:00
  Jen LaForge: But what's value mean to you?
• 6:03
  Jen LaForge: And how would you describe it?
• 6:04
  Jen LaForge: Value in like what context or what sense?
• 6:06
  Jen LaForge: Well, so say in the context of where your money goes, how you spend it, what you're getting out of your your money, let's shift a little bit onto the monetary side of value versus the value in having the freedom to live your life and to travel and to do the things and immerse in culture.
• 6:25
  Jen LaForge: Let's shift over there.
• 6:26
  Danica Nelson: Yeah.
• 6:27
  Danica Nelson: I mean, they are kind of relevant though, right?
• 6:29
  Danica Nelson: Because for me, value means like actually, you know, making the most of the dollars that I'm spending to buy back my time, to buy back my energy, um, and to just spend money on things that genuinely bring me joy.
• 6:40
  Danica Nelson: And that's what really what value does mean to me.
• 6:42
  Jen LaForge: Okay, value is joy free of joy.
• 6:44
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 6:44
  Jen LaForge: Some would argue now that buy now, pay later, uh, which is not at all like a layaway plan, but somewhat like a layaway plan as we were chatting earlier.
• 6:53
  Jen LaForge: Um, some would argue that that will give them more freedom.
• 6:56
  Jen LaForge: What are your thoughts on buy now, pay later, and this idea of freedom?
• 7:00
  Danica Nelson: I am not a fan of buy now pay later.
• 7:03
  Danica Nelson: And that is the most tame way that I could say how I truly feel like.
• 7:07
  Danica Nelson: Let them let it out.
• 7:08
  Danica Nelson: It's not my favorite.
• 7:10
  Danica Nelson: I think that utilizing buy now pay later services is a very slippery slope into debt.
• 7:17
  Danica Nelson: And there are some use cases where I do understand why people would take advantage of buy now pay later.
• 7:22
  Danica Nelson: For example, unfortunately, where we are in today's economy, people are using buy now pay later for groceries and for like basic necessities and things like that.
• 7:29
  Danica Nelson: That I get it.
• 7:30
  Danica Nelson: If you don't have the money and you need to survive today, you need to eat today, do what you gotta do.
• 7:35
  Danica Nelson: But we're also seeing, you know, some people are putting vacations on buy now, pay later that, you know, they don't necessarily need to, you know, take immediately.
• 7:43
  Danica Nelson: They're more so utilizing it for like more frivolous spending.
• 7:47
  Danica Nelson: And it's a slippery slope because unfortunately, a lot of people are landing into debt because of these services.
• 7:53
  Jen LaForge: Do you think that's been driven by a culture of treat myself and I deserve this?
• 7:58
  Jen LaForge: And, you know, how much of it is is just filling some emotional voids we have.
• 8:04
  Jen LaForge: I think you covered that perfectly.
• 8:07
  Danica Nelson: A lot of it is treat yourself, YOLO, you know, things like that.
• 8:10
  Danica Nelson: And to an extent, I do understand that because at the end of the day, life is hard, life is tough.
• 8:16
  Danica Nelson: And sometimes emotional spending can kind of help when, you know, things are rough.
• 8:21
  Danica Nelson: But, you know, you have to have balance there.
• 8:23
  Danica Nelson: You need to be really mindful of like, you know, the money going out because it can be detrimental to your to your long-term finances and your future.
• 8:30
  Jen LaForge: Or reframing it, right?
• 8:31
  Jen LaForge: I deserve to put this in my savings account and watch it grow.
• 8:34
  Jen LaForge: I think we need a lot of reframing as well.
• 8:37
  Jen LaForge: Exactly.
• 8:37
  Jen LaForge: So, in that being, then, Danica, um, do you think that that those struggling with a lot of debt right now, uh, let's take you know the big factors aside, is it a math problem or an emotional problem?
• 8:50
  Danica Nelson: I think it's both, to be honest.
• 8:52
  Danica Nelson: Like from the math perspective, we see what's going on in the job market.
• 8:56
  Danica Nelson: People are getting, you know, laid off aggressively, wages are low, unemployment is quite high.
• 9:02
  Danica Nelson: Like people are struggling to just put food on the table.
• 9:04
  Danica Nelson: So that's a math problem, right?
• 9:06
  Danica Nelson: There's more money going out than there is coming in in a lot of aspects.
• 9:10
  Danica Nelson: But there also is an emotional problem.
• 9:12
  Danica Nelson: A lot of people experience something called financial avoidance.
• 9:15
  Danica Nelson: A lot of people just don't want to look at their statements.
• 9:18
  Danica Nelson: A lot of people would rather just, you know, continue putting things off for as long as possible until there's an external signal that forces them to deal with the problems.
• 9:26
  Danica Nelson: So sometimes that can look like, you know, collections calling or, you know, a maxed-out credit card or things like the CRA calling you, things like that.
• 9:34
  Danica Nelson: Some people unfortunately need those like very like, you know, red alert buttons to act on that debt.
• 9:40
  Danica Nelson: And that can be quite emotional.
• 9:41
  Danica Nelson: But ultimately, a lot of people have like, you know, financial avoidance and also financial trauma.
• 9:46
  Danica Nelson: Anything to do with money just seems to be like a very, you know, hard and heavy topic.
• 9:50
  Danica Nelson: So they tend to just try to just not talk about it and not deal with it.
• 9:54
  Jen LaForge: Where do you think that trauma is coming from?
• 9:57
  Jen LaForge: What what is the fear?
• 9:58
  Jen LaForge: Because you know, I've also heard, you know, people are are 10 times more likely to talk about their sex lives than they are about their financial lives.
• 10:06
  Jen LaForge: And so, where do you think that's coming from?
• 10:08
  Jen LaForge: How how we were raised generationally?
• 10:11
  Jen LaForge: I mean, what's the root of that?
• 10:12
  Jen LaForge: A lot of it is generational.
• 10:14
  Danica Nelson: A lot of it is, you know, you grew up in a household where talking about money was a very stressful topic.
• 10:19
  Danica Nelson: It was something that was very heavy.
• 10:21
  Danica Nelson: There may not have been enough.
• 10:23
  Danica Nelson: And, you know, you kind of carry that into adulthood.
• 10:26
  Danica Nelson: And money trauma is something that is very difficult to overcome.
• 10:29
  Danica Nelson: I am certified in trauma of money, and I still carry money trauma with me just because of, you know, how I grew up with money and how I kind of saw the way that money caused some negative experiences within like my childhood.
• 10:42
  Jen LaForge: So it's a very difficult topic to work through.
• 10:44
  Jen LaForge: It is.
• 10:45
  Jen LaForge: I'm thinking about, you know, prior generations.
• 10:47
  Jen LaForge: We blame some of that comparison culture that drives a lot of that overspend on social media.
• 10:54
  Jen LaForge: But it also feels like, you know, 30, 40 years ago, comparison culture was alive and well then too.
• 11:01
  Jen LaForge: Like how how heavy is the comparison side of this problem that people are facing?
• 11:07
  Jen LaForge: Do you think?
• 11:08
  Danica Nelson: I think in all generations, people are trying to keep up with the Joneses, whether it's through, you know, social media, whether it's through, you know, your coworker, things like that.
• 11:16
  Danica Nelson: There's always going to be an aspect of that comparison.
• 11:19
  Danica Nelson: Um, it's kind of just like a part of part of who we are as humans.
• 11:23
  Jen LaForge: Would you say that building uh financial freedom requires us to be facing some of those generational traumas, so to speak?
• 11:32
  Jen LaForge: And how, like, explain what that journey might look like, or if you went on that journey to this life of freedom you have.
• 11:39
  Jen LaForge: I absolutely that's what I had to do.
• 11:42
  Danica Nelson: I had to kind of face financial trauma head on in order to be on a road, you know, towards financial freedom.
• 11:48
  Danica Nelson: For example, I was raised by a single Jamaican mother who taught me to save money.
• 11:53
  Danica Nelson: Don't spend money.
• 11:54
  Danica Nelson: Right.
• 11:54
  Danica Nelson: Spending money is like, you know, the last resort, you know, save, save, save.
• 11:58
  Danica Nelson: So I, when I learned about investing in the beginning, I was terrified because investing, what do you mean?
• 12:04
  Danica Nelson: I'm just gonna put my money and hope that it grows.
• 12:06
  Danica Nelson: Like that's bizarre.
• 12:07
  Danica Nelson: I wouldn't do that.
• 12:08
  Danica Nelson: But, you know, learning to overcome that financial trauma, understanding, you know, how the market works and things like that, that's kind of what helped me overcome that and put me on a road to financial freedom because, you know, I was able to buy my home, sold my home, and that really just kind of helped me put me on a path towards success.
• 12:24
  Jen LaForge: I love that.
• 12:25
  Jen LaForge: And it could have gone the complete opposite, right?
• 12:27
  Jen LaForge: To have a parent so focused on saving, you could have been a money burner.
• 12:31
  Jen LaForge: And so I feel like you at least leaned in the right way and and you you dealt with it very constructive.
• 12:36
  Jen LaForge: So congratulations.
• 12:37
  Jen LaForge: Thank you.
• 12:38
  Jen LaForge: I think some would argue flexibility is a big part of freedom and building a lifestyle of freedom that you want.
• 12:44
  Jen LaForge: But some would say that's what buy now pay later gives them is that flexibility.
• 12:48
  Jen LaForge: I like seeing you fired up.
• 12:49
  Jen LaForge: So talk a little bit about that.
• 12:52
  Danica Nelson: Flexibility, but at what cost, you know, like there are some, again, like I said, there are some positive use cases that I understand.
• 12:58
  Danica Nelson: People who like have no choice but to use it.
• 13:01
  Danica Nelson: Some people also have irregular income.
• 13:03
  Danica Nelson: So it kind of makes sense for them to figure out their purchases on buy now pay later because they can kind of time when those payments are due with when, you know, they have to pay for those services.
• 13:12
  Danica Nelson: But I just worry that, you know, we live in an age of like instant gratification.
• 13:18
  Danica Nelson: We want the thing, we buy the thing immediately.
• 13:20
  Danica Nelson: Like we were talking about earlier, layaway.
• 13:22
  Danica Nelson: There was this concept where like you're working towards the thing and you can't have the thing until you finish paying for the thing.
• 13:29
  Danica Nelson: That kind of taught a behavior of saving and like the value of the thing that you're purchasing.
• 13:34
  Danica Nelson: Whereas now, you know, buy now, pay later, it's like, oh, you can just have it right now.
• 13:38
  Danica Nelson: And it teaches people that, well, I would say it doesn't teach people, you know, sometimes the importance of like saving for the thing, actually sleeping on it to make sure that you really want to acquire the thing and it's not like an impulse purchase.
• 13:50
  Danica Nelson: Do you need it?
• 13:50
  Danica Nelson: Are you gonna have buyer's remorse later, etc.?
• 13:53
  Jen LaForge: Okay, so sleep on it.
• 13:54
  Jen LaForge: That's my first tip.
• 13:56
  Jen LaForge: I'm gonna take away, um, leave it in the cart, sleep on it, and then come back in the morning.
• 14:02
  Jen LaForge: Absolutely.
• 14:03
  Jen LaForge: Very fair.
• 14:04
  Jen LaForge: Um we talked a little bit about that um saving, saving, saving.
• 14:09
  Jen LaForge: Um, when you live a life of freedom and you're traveling, if it seems contradictory to someone in that undesired freedom path, bought into a lifestyle for a long time, they don't seem to go together to me.
• 14:23
  Jen LaForge: How can I have this life of freedom and still save money?
• 14:27
  Jen LaForge: I mean, that's a conundrum.
• 14:29
  Jen LaForge: How do you solve for that?
• 14:30
  Danica Nelson: So for me personally, when I'm, you know, traveling, I typically spend my time in countries that are lower costs of living.
• 14:37
  Danica Nelson: So, for example, I moved to Malaga, Spain for a year.
• 14:40
  Danica Nelson: And when I moved there, the cost of living was about 43% less than Toronto.
• 14:45
  Danica Nelson: Okay.
• 14:45
  Danica Nelson: So already my money is going a lot further, and I'm able to save a lot of money.
• 14:50
  Danica Nelson: So there are different creative ways that you can kind of make both work for you.
• 14:53
  Jen LaForge: And how do you tie that in with intention?
• 14:56
  Jen LaForge: Right?
• 14:57
  Jen LaForge: So you're going here because this is how you can afford this freedom, but I really want to experience this.
• 15:05
  Jen LaForge: So I have to be over here where it costs more.
• 15:07
  Jen LaForge: I mean, how do you blend all of that together?
• 15:10
  Jen LaForge: Like, tell us a little bit, maybe um Cole's notes on like how would you start thinking about rebuilding this life of freedom?
• 15:18
  Danica Nelson: Follow the joy.
• 15:19
  Danica Nelson: Honestly, follow what brings you joy.
• 15:21
  Danica Nelson: For me, it is learning new languages.
• 15:23
  Danica Nelson: I'm like pretty good at Spanish now.
• 15:26
  Danica Nelson: Okay.
• 15:26
  Danica Nelson: Um, I love Thailand because I like to eat.
• 15:28
  Danica Nelson: So there's a lot of joy there with food and trying new things.
• 15:31
  Danica Nelson: But I also find a lot of joy in being home with my community, my friends and my family who are based in Toronto.
• 15:36
  Danica Nelson: So for me, it's like making a custom mix of all of the above to make my perfect freedom lifestyle.
• 15:42
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 15:42
  Jen LaForge: And that's valuable to you.
• 15:44
  Jen LaForge: That's your value.
• 15:44
  Jen LaForge: I love it.
• 15:45
  Jen LaForge: So, in um, I want to talk about habits now.
• 15:48
  Jen LaForge: I'm gonna switch gears a little bit, but we all have habits and we have spending habits.
• 15:54
  Jen LaForge: And we'll get to subscriptions in a minute.
• 15:56
  Jen LaForge: But what what would you say, like what habits are becoming more expensive than most people realize?
• 16:02
  Jen LaForge: And we talked about hair and nails, but like what are some of the things that we might not be thinking about top of mind?
• 16:09
  Jen LaForge: That's a good question.
• 16:11
  Danica Nelson: I would say, like, you know, watching halls of influencers of anything they purchase can be there, it can be a slippery slope because we see them using the thing and we're like, oh, that looks great.
• 16:22
  Danica Nelson: I want that.
• 16:22
  Danica Nelson: And, you know, buying all of these new releases.
• 16:25
  Danica Nelson: Something that I have been actively working on is something called project pan.
• 16:28
  Danica Nelson: Are you familiar with the term?
• 16:30
  Danica Nelson: No, no.
• 16:30
  Danica Nelson: So uh it's going back to like, you know, cosmetics and things like that.
• 16:34
  Danica Nelson: But it's kind of this new trend where you have to use the whole pan or the whole product up completely until you um until you're able to buy a new one.
• 16:45
  Danica Nelson: So the term project pan is like, you know what I'm and when you have like a little um like a makeup pan, for example, a powder, you can until you hit pan, you are not able to purchase a new thing.
• 16:54
  Danica Nelson: And that's a new habit that I've got a lot of my community into because it forces them to actually use all of the things that they have that they've paid for, that they've used their hard-earned money for before they get distracted by the latest release in whatever the field is.
• 17:07
  Jen LaForge: That brings up a whole other sense of accomplishment and joy because I remember the first time I actually finished a chapstick without losing it.
• 17:18
  Jen LaForge: He snarked and finished the whole thing.
• 17:19
  Jen LaForge: Like I could have ran up a mountain and announced it to the world.
• 17:23
  Jen LaForge: I was so excited.
• 17:24
  Jen LaForge: It took me like 40 years, but I finished one chapstick without losing it and or getting a new one.
• 17:29
  Jen LaForge: So for you, I feel like there's a whole other joy.
• 17:33
  Danica Nelson: There's honestly, a lot of people end up like posting pictures when they hit pan on whatever their products is because you're right, a lot of people are very proud of it because it's just biz it shouldn't be, but it's bizarre now.
• 17:43
  Danica Nelson: It's almost out of the ordinary to finish a full product that we buy.
• 17:47
  Jen LaForge: I think there's a a lack of discipline in today's society driven by, you know, short reels and just not having an attention span anymore.
• 17:57
  Jen LaForge: I mean, discipline requires the longest attention span ever.
• 18:02
  Jen LaForge: So I think there's a there's a whole discipline in there that it might catch on.
• 18:06
  Jen LaForge: It does.
• 18:06
  Danica Nelson: And I also have a lot of empathy for people who do tend to purchase emotionally because life since, you know, COVID started has been rough for a lot of people.
• 18:16
  Danica Nelson: I mean, of course, life has always been rough, but we've had a a really rough like, you know, six years or so.
• 18:21
  Danica Nelson: And a lot of people turn to purchasing things to kind of, you know, just temporarily distract themselves from what's going on in the world.
• 18:28
  Danica Nelson: Again, though, balance is important.
• 18:30
  Danica Nelson: There's a difference between buying yourself, you know, a $20 something here or there versus like every single day you see something, you're adding to cart.
• 18:38
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 18:38
  Jen LaForge: I'm sure there's there's someone listening here who treats himself too much as feeling very guilty about that, but but feels that emotional need for it.
• 18:48
  Jen LaForge: Is there anything you could share with them or tips on how to break that habit, how to break that emotional cycle?
• 18:54
  Jen LaForge: Like what can they do instead?
• 18:56
  Jen LaForge: And I know you talked about sleeping on it, but that's not going to feel the emotions that buy now does.
• 19:02
  Jen LaForge: So what can they do to start reframing their thinking?
• 19:06
  Jen LaForge: Because I mean, I'm sure I feel guilty of it, but there's there's probably 10 people right now feeling guilty about that habit.
• 19:13
  Danica Nelson: For me, I always recommend that people map out their dream life.
• 19:16
  Danica Nelson: What does your dream life look like?
• 19:18
  Danica Nelson: What do you actually want to accomplish?
• 19:20
  Danica Nelson: What do you want to unlock with your money?
• 19:22
  Danica Nelson: And, you know, have that on a vision board, have that on a picture, and do everything so you can get towards that goal.
• 19:28
  Danica Nelson: So if you want to, you know, buy a new home, if you want to be able to, you know, travel the world and things like that, you, you know, purchasing all these little things is distracting you from that goal.
• 19:39
  Danica Nelson: So I would tell people, you know, to always just, you know, remember what are you doing this for?
• 19:43
  Danica Nelson: Why are you working?
• 19:44
  Danica Nelson: Why are you doing the things that you're doing?
• 19:46
  Danica Nelson: And, you know, always have your mind on that, that one thing that's that's your goal.
• 19:50
  Jen LaForge: Okay, I love it.
• 19:51
  Jen LaForge: Vision boards, goals, discipline.
• 19:54
  Jen LaForge: We need this.
• 19:55
  Jen LaForge: We all, we all need this.
• 19:56
  Danica Nelson: Yeah.
• 19:57
  Danica Nelson: And also just finding low-cost hobbies, I think, can be a really good, a really good like, you know, thing to help them kind of, you know, don't not spend too much.
• 20:06
  Danica Nelson: Um, I think during the pandemic as well, a lot of us discovered, like, oh, painting is fun and we can get paint from the dollar store.
• 20:12
  Danica Nelson: Find low-cost ways that can kind of like ease any stress or anxiety that you're experiencing because it can save money, it can kill some time, and it can kind of like ease and like regulate your nervous system at the same time.
• 20:24
  Jen LaForge: I think it's important too to touch back on that comparison culture there as well, because yes, you can buy paint at the dollar store, but those horse hair brushes cost a lot of money and might need better brushes.
• 20:34
  Jen LaForge: Or walking and running is very inexpensive until you need the new shoes and the fancy shorts and and the water bottles.
• 20:41
  Jen LaForge: So, um, how quickly could that, those, those inexpensive hobbies blow up if you're not careful?
• 20:47
  Jen LaForge: Very quickly.
• 20:48
  Danica Nelson: Like you said, I've seen running is free, but now people are joining run clubs and they're joining all of the different types of races and things like that.
• 20:55
  Danica Nelson: I would say it's also important to just like, you know, you want to curate who you're following and your community as well.
• 21:02
  Danica Nelson: So, like for me, for example, anyone who makes me feel inadequate, anyone who makes me feel like I'm not good enough because I'm not spending a lot of money, I unfollow them.
• 21:11
  Danica Nelson: My feed is very curated to only people who I aspire to be.
• 21:16
  Danica Nelson: And I think that's very important because, you know, we are impressionable people.
• 21:20
  Danica Nelson: And um, when you see on social media, when it's being waved in your face 24-7 that you're just not good enough because you can't acquire all of the things, it feels crappy, right?
• 21:29
  Danica Nelson: It doesn't feel great.
• 21:30
  Danica Nelson: So I would say, you know, curate who you follow and then also in real life, your community, who you surround yourself with, find people, whether that's like family, friends, coworkers, et cetera, who have the same goals that you do, because it can make it a lot easier to kind of work together so you don't overspend and you stay within your limits.
• 21:47
  Jen LaForge: Yeah, you are who you know, right?
• 21:49
  Jen LaForge: Exactly.
• 21:49
  Jen LaForge: And again, being very intentional, not just on how you're spending your money, but who's influencing your spend on money.
• 21:55
  Jen LaForge: I love that.
• 21:56
  Jen LaForge: I feel like it's far more difficult for younger generations to.
• 21:59
  Jen LaForge: Day than it was, say for me when I was younger, I'm still very young.
• 22:04
  Jen LaForge: But um, you know, for me, I can quickly turn off the social media when I feel like I'm not enough because of that post.
• 22:12
  Jen LaForge: But some people could get trapped in it and they could get very trapped in a lot of things that being under this generation of influence and then the influence of their generation.
• 22:22
  Jen LaForge: So if we look at how young professionals today are being taught about money, are they being taught on how to build wealth or just how to be better at spending?
• 22:36
  Jen LaForge: Like is that idea of wealth out the window today, or is it the same conversation, just a path to get there?
• 22:45
  Danica Nelson: I think it's a choose your own adventure.
• 22:46
  Danica Nelson: You can get the people who tell you that this is how you get better at spending money, you need to acquire all of the things, or you can follow the people as well who teach you how to build wealth, who teach you how to invest, who teach you how to save, who teach you how to, you know, make the best use of rewards and things like that.
• 23:01
  Danica Nelson: So you really need to be mindful and intentional with how you curate your feed because you know what you get is who you follow.
• 23:09
  Jen LaForge: Okay.
• 23:09
  Jen LaForge: You said rewards.
• 23:10
  Jen LaForge: So I'm gonna pivot there is kind of my my world here.
• 23:14
  Jen LaForge: So this is stack.
• 23:15
  Jen LaForge: You're on stacks.
• 23:15
  Jen LaForge: We talk a lot about stacking rewards.
• 23:17
  Jen LaForge: So you can earn cash back with Rackuton and your cash back with your credit card, plus get those brand uh retail points.
• 23:24
  Jen LaForge: So uh, what would you say is something worth stacking rewards for?
• 23:29
  Jen LaForge: And uh, what should people absolutely like skip financing for?
• 23:35
  Jen LaForge: So buy and stack like crazy, and absolutely skip financing for two things.
• 23:42
  Danica Nelson: For the skipping financing thing for, I would say if you don't need it, don't finance it.
• 23:48
  Danica Nelson: You know, like just straight up.
• 23:49
  Danica Nelson: If you don't, if it's not like a necessity, I don't think it's necessary.
• 23:53
  Danica Nelson: Um, it's like we said, it's a slippery slope.
• 23:56
  Danica Nelson: Things can get um very ugly very quickly.
• 23:58
  Danica Nelson: People are impacting their credits, which is impacting their ability to take on loans, to buy homes, cars, etc.
• 24:05
  Danica Nelson: So for me, I would say buy now, pay later is gonna be your last resort.
• 24:09
  Danica Nelson: I think it should be people's last resort personally.
• 24:12
  Danica Nelson: We talked about some use cases where it makes sense, but I don't think that it's like, I don't think it should be second nature.
• 24:18
  Danica Nelson: I don't think it'd be it should be like, oh, Visa, MasterCard, or buy now, pay later.
• 24:22
  Danica Nelson: I don't think it should be that easy of a decision.
• 24:24
  Danica Nelson: And in terms of stacking, in terms of rewards, the things that you want, the things that bring you joy, the things that you need.
• 24:30
  Danica Nelson: Uh, for me, for example, um, my partner and I, I bought us these matching Jamaica jerseys um from Meditas using Rackatoon, of course.
• 24:38
  Danica Nelson: Thank you.
• 24:39
  Danica Nelson: And that brings me joy because we have these matching outfits for both Jamaican.
• 24:42
  Danica Nelson: We were very proud of our heritage.
• 24:44
  Danica Nelson: Um, and those things bring us joy.
• 24:46
  Danica Nelson: And that purchase did not put me in debt.
• 24:48
  Danica Nelson: It's something that was a want.
• 24:50
  Danica Nelson: It was not a need, but it brought me joy.
• 24:51
  Danica Nelson: It brought us joy.
• 24:52
  Danica Nelson: And then, of course, anything that would bring value to your life.
• 24:55
  Danica Nelson: For me, of course, as well.
• 24:56
  Danica Nelson: Uh uh travel is always going to be something that, you know, you can find find creative ways to stack, or what I'm calling stack maxing now.
• 25:03
  Danica Nelson: Okay.
• 25:03
  Danica Nelson: I like it.
• 25:04
  Danica Nelson: You might you might have said stack maxing.
• 25:06
  Danica Nelson: Yeah, okay.
• 25:06
  Danica Nelson: You're stack maxing.
• 25:07
  Danica Nelson: So you're getting, you know, the the racket in cash back, you're getting the rewards on your credit card.
• 25:13
  Danica Nelson: If you're paying with a credit card, you're getting the points directly from the company.
• 25:16
  Danica Nelson: Stack max as much as possible.
• 25:18
  Danica Nelson: I like to treat it like a game.
• 25:19
  Danica Nelson: Like I treat it like a personal challenge, personally.
• 25:21
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 25:21
  Jen LaForge: And it requires discipline, right?
• 25:24
  Jen LaForge: Because you it, you know, how many times have I been halfway through adding things to my cart and realized uh I work here and I forgot to go through acting, but I go right through and I load my cart back up again and I stick with it.
• 25:36
  Jen LaForge: So I like that stack max.
• 25:38
  Jen LaForge: And I was we might steal it.
• 25:39
  Jen LaForge: We might steal it.
• 25:40
  Jen LaForge: Yes.
• 25:40
  Jen LaForge: There's also uh the the compounded gains too or or compounded debt where we're trapped in this world, not just with buy now, pay later, where you know, it seems like if I split this payment up monthly, it's it's very affordable.
• 25:56
  Jen LaForge: But I've done that 10 times and it's no longer affordable when you stack all that up, it becomes a lot of pressure and hard to manage.
• 26:06
  Jen LaForge: Can you speak to those habits and how people could break the habits of stacking smaller payments into a monthly big payment?
• 26:16
  Danica Nelson: Yeah, I think it goes back to really just prioritizing, you know, what's most necessary.
• 26:20
  Danica Nelson: And does that need to even be a buy now, pay later um item in the first place?
• 26:25
  Danica Nelson: You know, like I think we should save it for necessities only.
• 26:28
  Danica Nelson: I don't think that it should just be like a, okay, it's just there, so I'm gonna do it.
• 26:32
  Danica Nelson: I think it needs to be a very like well thought out decision because to your point, like some of these things out of nowhere, all of a sudden it's like, oh, I have a lot of payments.
• 26:41
  Danica Nelson: And a lot of people, unfortunately, are paying those payments with credit cards.
• 26:45
  Danica Nelson: So now they're transferring the debt from that to another one with more interest, and it just becomes a giant mess.
• 26:52
  Danica Nelson: So being very mindful of what we're choosing to use buy now, pay later for is extremely important.
• 26:58
  Jen LaForge: That's right.
• 26:59
  Jen LaForge: And I think you you said it earlier as well that financial avoidance.
• 27:02
  Jen LaForge: So these are all hitting your credit card and you're not looking and you have no idea how many subscriptions you have or how many buy now, pay later payments you're making a month.
• 27:11
  Jen LaForge: And you're just completely blind to these impulse because they feel so quick and easy.
• 27:16
  Jen LaForge: Which begs the question.
• 27:18
  Jen LaForge: When I think of buy now, pay later, I think of like Cashmart on the side of the street where you can cash your check earlier.
• 27:24
  Jen LaForge: But people are far less likely to go to Cashmart to get those cash advances than they would say use buy now, pay later.
• 27:33
  Jen LaForge: Is it something sexy about the marketing and branding and that's online and you're not seen walking in the doors of a Cashmart?
• 27:40
  Jen LaForge: What do you think has captured the psychology of people with buy now, pay later?
• 27:45
  Danica Nelson: You're right.
• 27:45
  Danica Nelson: It's excellent branding and it's the ease, right?
• 27:48
  Danica Nelson: You can do it from the comfort of your own home.
• 27:50
  Danica Nelson: You don't need to ask anyone to do it.
• 27:52
  Danica Nelson: You kind of just, you know, put in a few things on your phone and there it is.
• 27:55
  Danica Nelson: It's easy.
• 27:56
  Danica Nelson: But it can be just as predatory as those payday loan systems, which by the way, I am the biggest hater of payday loan systems.
• 28:04
  Danica Nelson: Um, it can be just as predatory if people aren't careful.
• 28:07
  Danica Nelson: So again, using it as an absolute last resort is is very important.
• 28:12
  Jen LaForge: So you've given us a lot, but I think there's themes here that we can all learn from and pick apart and spend time on reflecting for ourselves.
• 28:19
  Jen LaForge: But if someone wanted freedom in 12 months and money was a big factor, what is the number one move they should make this month to make it there in 12?
• 28:33
  Danica Nelson: I would say put in your calendar a monthly money date with yourself.
• 28:38
  Danica Nelson: This is where you sit down and you review every single purchase that you made for the month, review all of your credit card statements, your debit card statements, et cetera, cash if you keep on, you know, like a record of that and see where your money is going.
• 28:50
  Danica Nelson: Because unfortunately, a lot of us just kind of spend and we don't really know where our money is going.
• 28:55
  Danica Nelson: But when you have these money dates with yourself quite often, you have like you're more mindful of it.
• 29:00
  Danica Nelson: You are more aware of where your money is going.
• 29:02
  Danica Nelson: And hopefully seeing that helps you correct behaviors that you may not be happy with.
• 29:07
  Danica Nelson: I would say just being very mindful of your spending is going to be very important.
• 29:11
  Danica Nelson: And of course, being mindful of like your saving and your investing and any goals that you're working towards as well.
• 29:16
  Danica Nelson: Just make sure that you check in with yourself often because a lot of times people kind of just, you know, you forget about it.
• 29:21
  Danica Nelson: You know how you make New Year's resolutions in January and by now, people like May, June, people don't really know.
• 29:27
  Danica Nelson: What did I even say I wanted to accomplish?
• 29:29
  Danica Nelson: We need to be constantly checking in with ourselves to ensure that we are working towards our goals the way that we set out to.
• 29:35
  Jen LaForge: I love that.
• 29:36
  Jen LaForge: I love the money date, that the idea that you just dropped, but I'm going to show you what I've learned from our conversation.
• 29:42
  Jen LaForge: If I'm having a money date, I am not going to treat myself on that money date.
• 29:47
  Jen LaForge: So I'm not going to go out to a nice restaurant and I'm not going to get some champagne, like maybe a peppermint tea, something small, treat myself, enjoy my money date together.
• 29:57
  Jen LaForge: Um, Danica, thank you.
• 29:59
  Jen LaForge: Before we go, uh, we're gonna ask you the important question.
• 30:02
  Jen LaForge: I think we all know the answer to this, but by now, pay later.
• 30:06
  Jen LaForge: Are you gonna stack or are you going to skip?
• 30:09
  Jen LaForge: We're skipping.
• 30:10
  Jen LaForge: We're skipping.
• 30:10
  Jen LaForge: Absolutely skipping.
• 30:12
  Jen LaForge: We're skipping.
• 30:12
  Jen LaForge: Unless you need it, unless we understand.
• 30:14
  Jen LaForge: Sorry.
• 30:15
  Jen LaForge: But for the most part, uh avoid it or you will need it.
• 30:18
  Jen LaForge: Yeah.
• 30:18
  Jen LaForge: That's what you're saying.
• 30:19
  Jen LaForge: Exactly.
• 30:20
  Jen LaForge: Hey.
• 30:20
  Jen LaForge: Well, uh, my financial freedom plan starts today.
• 30:23
  Jen LaForge: Daninka, thank you so much.
• 30:25
  Jen LaForge: Thank you for having me.
• 30:26
  Jen LaForge: And that's it for this episode of Stacked.
• 30:28
  Jen LaForge: If you found this useful, follow along as we interview leaders shaping the future of retail and learn how value really works behind the scenes.
• 30:36
  Jen LaForge: And if there's a topic you want us to unpack, I'd love to hear from you.
• 30:39
  Jen LaForge: See you next time.