Latest / Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast / Exploring the Cass Model: Navigating Identity and Embracing Authenticity | Pillow Fort Sessions EP 26

Transcript

Exploring the Cass Model: Navigating Identity and Embracing Authenticity | Pillow Fort Sessions EP 26 · Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast

• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Welcome back everybody to the Around the Kinky Campfire Pillowfort Sessions.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: This is your host once again with another exciting topic for you today Senor Taco, knuckle, the Cuddle Gigolo, colonel McBee Late Jay McFluffles, or you can just call me HH Julius.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I'm here today to tell you a thing or two about a thing or two, but before we get into that, as you know, as is typical, let's get that five seconds going here, and my drink today, once again, is not sponsored, but it is the Black Raspberry.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Sparkling Ice plus Caffeine, zero, sugar Flavored Water, sparkly Drink Once again, it says sparkling ice and then sparkling water, carbonated, delicious, oh so delicious, not sponsored.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: But here we go with the asmr five seconds and a three, two.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: I think that really was five seconds.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Oh, oh man, that's cold.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: My teeth, ooh, sensitive teeth, oh goodness.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: 70 milligrams of caffeine, but not sponsored.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: One day, hopefully, we'll see.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: And since this is the middle of the day of this recording, no beverages of this time so far.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Got to get that energy going.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Just came back from the gym and I'm feeling that low.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: But I wanted to talk to you people today.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And what am I talking about?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Probably very, very little known.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: This is a little bit of a deep dive if a lot of people don't know that, especially if you're not of the queer community, maybe even some of you in the queer community may have not heard this, but it is a thing and it is called the CAS model, c-a-s-s model.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: It is basically identity, like learning about yourself, being able to recognize what it is, introspection, and then putting it out to how you represent yourself out there in the world.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go through all the little steps.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Hopefully take only about 30 minutes here.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: If you guys enjoy this, let me know.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Please go on to the kinky campfire instagram like, subscribe, share there on the episodes and then, uh, if you are on like spotify or something that has a rating system, please rate the episodes.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the people that download right now.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: That's the only metric I can kind of see for the most part, but I appreciate it so much those people that take time and listen to the whole episode.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about the CAS model beginning now.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, cas model is a system that was developed by a psychologist, slash sex therapist, named Vivian.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Cas describes the developmental process of individuals as they go through acquiring their homosexual identity.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I would argue that it could be for all identities.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: This happened in 1979.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: 1979.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: So when I'm going through this it's going to be talking about the LGBTQIA plus identities.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: But you know, I argue this is 100 percent of the BDSM, non-monogamy, all those different things, because it's the basis of how one goes about identifying themselves to the world.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: So a lot of us I will say just an overall general assumption, generality we do not have a chance to explore our multiple identities.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Growing up, I know I was well.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I explored the Christian, very religious identity a lot, also being Asian, exploring that a lot as well, but everything else not really got kind of sheltered.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Uh, even if I was watching something that was remotely queer even though we need to know what queer was back then, remotely queer, even on tv I would get in trouble for doing it.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: I remember very, very much one time watching a mtv.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Uh, I don't know if it's the video or the music awards.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: No, it had to been, had to been the video awards because it was that, oh, that best kiss thing and it was like sarah michelle geller and uh, no, what is her name?
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Blake, something.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Anyways, cruel intentions, anybody remember?
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they kissed and yeah, my mom was sitting right there.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, she did not like that at all.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: That was not good.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, all that stuff never really got talked about.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Uh, not really going to talk about parents here in this thing, but yeah, so going out there and figuring all this stuff out happened later in life.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: For me, this is kind of why I started the podcast, because I'm like, oh, there's got to be more people like me in the POC community that did not get this training or education growing up.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: So here Julius is to explain it to you all.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Sure, why are y'all listening to me?
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, I just want to say this.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Right now I am sharing the information.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: If I could do all the make a something, make a something out of all these podcasts, it would definitely be a pamphlet, not a book.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: It's guidelines that you can try to use at some point in your life.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: If it's helpful, then more power to you.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I'm here to just share the information.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Please once again I will say this multiple times go out there and do your own research.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Don't listen to some guy on not even the internet, on some podcasting app.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Do your own research, try it yourself.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I know I am.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I found this stuff out months, years ago and now I'm talking about it, but I'm still in the process.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: People still trying to figure out where I am exactly right now.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Right now, I now, uh, identify as gender fluid, but I'm still working through that.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: That's the one that I'm working through right now.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: See, if that's what it is, I have a way that I see myself and then going out there into the world and producing, showing that self to everybody is a work in progress.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what it's called all these feelings I have.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I know when I got into the poly community oh, I won't even go back BDSM community, then poly community and now the queer community.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, there's terms and words for all these things I've been feeling all my life and this is just one of those things the cast model representation of your identities and how you relate to those identities and decide to show and relate to other people.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I will say one thing about the cast model that there is official documentation, but unfortunately there's not a whole lot of research behind it, so take this with a grain of salt.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I will say that the, from my research, the cast model was done in Asian countries, indian countries, indian one of those two over there across the pond with people that were in like a cast society, so Indian.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: If you know anything about the Indian society, it's very much still a caste system.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: So people that are trans over there do not have the best life in general because they can't really be a hundred percent out there as we are here in America.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: So the a lot of the research is from from that side of the world.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I would just say that.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So take that with a grain of salt.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Hopefully we can find something a little bit better.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Right now, this is the system that we have talking about the different stages of gender gender identity out there in the world.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So one of the fundamental theories of the CAS model is uh, it's one, uh, first should see one of the fundamental oh, it's one of the fundamental theories of the LGBTQIA identity development as far as we know, one of the main ones so far.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: That's why I heard about this and did a little research, and then now I'm telling y'all about it.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: It's one of the first to treat queer people as normal in a heterosexist society.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Yay, we all live there in a climate of homophobia and biphobia, instead of treating homosexuality and bisexuality themselves as a problem.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: There are six stages.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Now these stages are sequential people.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: There are six stages Now these stages are sequential people.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: They are campsters, they are sequential.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: But you can go, as with anything in life.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: You got to go back to the basics sometimes so you can jump around in any order that you feel is right for you.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, I know I tend to go through everything a little, just go over everything first and then break it down as I see fit.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: First time I go in order, I should say, once I get through everything.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: So, now that I've done my research on this type of thing, I'm going over individually now with y'all here on the podcast, on the podcast, and I've looked at all the different stages here and then did a little research with the multiple articles that I used to make this episode, do my research here.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: These are the stages and facts that I'm giving you.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: That kind of overall were similar to all the similarity in all the different articles.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Let's just put it that way, okay.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: So, as I'm talking to you, I too am going in doing a little bit more of a deep dive into all of these things.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, very right off the bat, homophobia and biphobia oh, look at that society.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: That's very interesting that we have that now.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Good thing there's pride out there at least to help with these kind of things.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Um, and hopefully people are learning more and more that there's nothing to be scared of.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Quote unquote, even though technically it says phobia, it's uh.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: So homophobia, there's like clinical definition, is like scared of being in a close intimate relationship with somebody of the that has that orientation.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we want to use that clinical definition or whatever, but that's very interesting.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: But it's like people are still people.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Why are we objectifying and generalizing people out there?
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: Because a person is still a person and get to know them.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: There's still people.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Nothing way off about that.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So let's stop with these generalities and assumptions and stereotypes.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Let's get away, get out of here with that.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: We here at around the kiki campfire do not like that type of thing.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I will say it again julius does not like assumptions.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Let's get rid of assumptions.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Stop objectifying people.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Ask a question, get to know them, okay.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So I'm to help you all here.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Ok, the first stage of the caste model is identity confusion.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Ok, this is where a person would question their assumptions about their sexual orientation.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, I've done that myself, gone out there and been like, hmm, now, as somebody that presents as male to a lot of people, it's like, okay, you can make the assumption that I'm straight, that's cool with you, but I know the feelings I have.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I'm like, ooh, I see everybody as aesthetically pleasing, yeah, kind of sort of let's just waft it like that okay, everybody of the different genders, all in between, both in the spectrums and in the middle.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: I see something aesthetically pleasing and I see I remember I've talked about before that I've now realized that I was asexual this whole time and those, everything that I talked about in that episode applied to me and I just did not know it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, ooh, okay, aesthetically pleasing.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Everybody is Yoda speak and boy, in the identity confusion phase, you start to question those things and you're confused about your identity.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Could be painful, yes, very painful.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: As somebody that grew up in a very religious household, I'm like, ooh, okay, they have thoughts about homosexuality there.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Not going to do a deep dive in that at all, I'll do that with my counselor.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: The previously held identity comes into question and then you start to realize that you are not quite heterosexual as you think you are.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: This straight line has a bit of curve and kinks to it Kinks, and they are not like other individuals that you used to interact with.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: So the people, people, I definitely am not the person that talks to my high school friends anymore, not really.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, they try, yeah, I mean, hey boy, yeah they, they try a conversation, but it's like I don't really care about that same stuff anymore.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I'm doing my own thing now.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very envious just a side note here I'm very envious of those people that had like accepting friends in high school and they still talk to them.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: It's like, boy, I'm so jealous of you right now.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: My situation was not like that.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: So once you're in this confusion stage, you cannot share feelings with others until you find that community that accepts you and you remain very conscious and you disguise your identity, which I still kind of do every now and then.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It's very interesting because I'm part of a more queer, positive community.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: But because of how I present myself or not knowing how, I have no idea how I come across the people.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: I have a general idea let me not say that I have it's about 60 maybe and the parenting on how I act, talk, the speed at which I talk, or how I carry myself, what I'm wearing.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: It's like people make assumptions and it's kind of sad when that assumption they make is not reality.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: I've had different relationships and because of that, because they were expecting one thing but then they got another, even though we had a conversation beforehand.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: But then reality hit the fantasy and it's like, oh okay, yeah, I'm not the dude bro that you were looking for.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Waves hand like Obi-Wan, this is not the guy quote unquote that you are looking for.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Sorry to let you know, but yeah, that's very unfortunate when it comes to that.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And even now, it's like, hmm, I have to be careful in my relationships because, depending on who I'm talking to, it's like I don't even know 100% myself what I identify as and I'm still trying to figure it out.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: And this is another reason why I do these podcasts and I talk to you, you people, you campsters out there, because I feel like some people feel the same way and I just want to let you know I'm right there with you.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: It is very confusing will feel the same way and I just want to let you know I'm right there with you.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: It is very confusing, oh god.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: So this is why, when I read that part about it being sequential, but people jump around.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, okay, cool, I can.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know anybody else out there, I've no, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard or watched.
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: I've watched a podcast because it was on video where people felt like they had to be allowed to do something.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: I 100% agree.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: If you are one of those people, I agree with you and I feel you.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I've always felt like, even way back when I first got into the BDSM community, it's like am I allowed to be here?
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: There's this feeling of being caught doing something you weren't supposed to do and the police are going to come in.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know which police one of these police were going to come in and catch me at some point.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: It's like am I allowed to be here?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: And then, finally, it took like five years before I realized that, oh, okay, I'm allowed to be here.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: So even with the queer community, it's still like am I allowed to be gender fluid?
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Is that okay?
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Because there's this feeling of having to ask permission to do these things.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I think it's that bait in Christian guilt or something like that Stepping out of your normalized way of growing up and breaking down those walls.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I can be here and I can do this, oh my goodness.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, still very much dealing with the identity and being confused about what exactly is going on and being quote unquote allowed to show that to people.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, it's a long process, okay.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So, even if you manage to make it out of the first stage, the next stage is identity comparison.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: So this is where you're still confused about your self-identity and how you want to present yourself to the world, but it seems to lessen.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: And then you feel like there's a possibility that you could be dot, dot, dot, blank, blank, blank, blank, whatever it is, all the different things.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: So we're still talking about the queer stuff, okay, but like I said in the beginning, I would argue that it could be related to BDSM and the non-monogamy community.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Insert you swinger, whatever it is, all those different communities.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: You have a point where you learn about the thing you're confused like oh, maybe I might be that thing, and then you start being like well, those people are that.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Am I like them?
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: This is basically the comparison stage.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: That's what we're doing here.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Let's see here Different stigma management strategies coming to play.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good lord those stigma, oh god.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: And you have this thing.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: You know you don't want to.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: You still don't want to reveal yourself because you're still trying to figure it out, so you keep it to yourself for now.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: You don't tell anybody close to you.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: You don't really go out to any events.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Quote, unquote.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel sorry for the people that had to learn about this stuff before the internet, but now, as we know, the internet is here.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: People I just want to let you know that we have the internet and there are social events, clubs, parties, businesses, all the different things where people of the stigmatized, taboo communities can get together and talk about these things and find a like mind of type of people to do these things with, and it's glorious.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Now I cannot at all complain about having the ability to go out and find people that think and feel the same way I do, and it's great, it's amazing, oh goodness.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: But this is where you do this in the comparison stage.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: This is where all the research and stuff happens, and you're like, okay, those people are like me.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Can I do the same thing they do Again?
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Am I allowed to join them?
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, the stigma of it, the societal judgments, is great.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is where we started trying to get rid of those in this stage.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Uh, so you have things like passing, uh, which is when you try to pretend to be normal.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, this is very much a POC thing.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: You know there's all different shades and we know how it goes between being lighter and darker, and you're a POCc person.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Each community and culture has has their different things that go on with that.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Uh, there's covering, so trying not to be discreditable, and then, in group alignment, seeking for the same group members.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, where are you going out there trying to look for a community?
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, boy, yeah, this is, oh, this is a tough topic here, because, boy, oh boy, julius is definitely still working through that.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you right now people, supposedly it's sequential, but, oh man, I float back and forth, depending on what it is, because if I go to the poly side, I feel one way, and then I go to the queer side, I feel one way and I go to the BDSM side and I feel another way, and I have all the other hobbies and and it's like I gotta pull back a little bit because, depending on who's in these groups, it's like how quote-unquote tolerant they're gonna be, and then people make assumptions and they learn about stuff and they don't ask questions.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Be like oh, okay, that's what that is like.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Do you even know what those letters mean?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Like, no, no, that must mean that I, oh, okay, so you just made a judgment call without finding out any facts Great, that's awesome.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, yeah.
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Dealing with assumptions?
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Whoa, I cannot tell you how much I hate them.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, and if you manage to make it out of that stage, the next one is identity.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Identity tolerance.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is where you become fairly sure about identity and accept it for the time being.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Fairly sure is the key phrase there.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: However, you not agree with the identity will hold true in the future.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: So this is when people, oh, this is a phase.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Like, okay, thank you, you know nothing, you didn't ask any questions, but this is a phase, great Cause, cause, I don't fit in your little walls that you had pictured for me.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: And making assumptions Again, the identity is tolerated for now, as you're not fully sure about it.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, that happens.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I still I'm still not even sure Been in BSM for 12 years.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Do I, do I impact?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Do I kink at all?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I don't even know.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Still still asking this question after all these years.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's see.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: Adopts many stigma management strategies.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Once again, we're still doing that because we live in this society.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, but you start to accept that you have the possibility of dot dot dot blankety blank and seek out other folks that are dot dot dot blankety blank.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: So, once again, the cast model was based off the queer identities, but I would argue once again that it could be related to any of the stigmatized communities, the, the taboo communities, whatever have you.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: So, whatever you identify as, when you're in the tolerance phase, you phase I said phase good Lord stage.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: But yes, this is where people quote unquote say it's a phase where you know what.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: If you get to a point where it's like, okay, maybe this isn't for me, I've done enough research, this is usually where you bow out, and that's totally fine too, cause we're all still trying to find ourselves.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: So no judgments here.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: At Around the Kinky Campfire, especially in the Pillowfort sessions, you can dip out as much as you want.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Some people can take breaks, quote-unquote, which is very interesting to me still.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so people can take breaks and you know what?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: If it's not for you, feel free to bow out at any point, and this is usually where it happens.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: But if you do manage to make it out of this stage.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: The next one is identity acceptance.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: You become fully sure.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: So you tested it and you've tried it and you've experimented, not really in the non-biblical, the congenial sense, but you've gone out to events, you've talked to people that are of that said community and you're like you know what.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe I am so-and-so, such-and-such, I might be a kinky motherfucker.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And now I hang out with other kinky motherfuckers and we yell out we all kinky motherfuckers.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And it feels good to me.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So there you go.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: So this is where you start to accept yourself.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: So this is where you start to accept yourself, the starting of the accepting.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Decades later, I'm still accepting myself.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Sure, you're ready to tell others about your identity.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: You don't try to hide it anymore.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: That came very early for me when it came to BDSM.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Even my vanilla quote unquote.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Friends know about all my extracurricular activities and also my partners.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, they kind of knew already in the beginning.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: But I talking about the, my friends know about my partners and what we do.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Um, you start spending more time with other group members is where you find community.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: You dive right in there and then you get everybody's phone numbers.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: You guys plan to meet out for coffee afterwards and bowling events and whatever, and you still have doubts.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: So you don't want to go to work and start being like, hey, I'm this and this now.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you don't really do that, you don't scream it from the streets, but you start to accept yourself.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: And then you might maybe accept that identity, but you don't really talk about it until people ask.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: So kind of doing it with close friends, not quite family yet, because't know, you know they might judge you for some way.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Once again you're breaking the mold of however.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: They see, saw you growing up and, oh, my child, it's like, but you never really got to know me.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you hide it from society at large and maybe some family members, but you tell your close friends about it and you make friends in said community.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: This is where acceptance comes in.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: So now we're on the downhill part of it.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: It's not such a climb unless you go back over on that side of the hill, which, yeah, you know Julius has done himself.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: But if you manage to make it out of that stage then you get into identity pride, which is interesting that we have a whole month dedicated to pride for the queer community.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: But this is the stage where you start feeling pride and identity.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Maybe you wear some flags and such and such and clothes with different rainbow colors and flag colors and all the different flags that are there, and you start enjoying it.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: So you make good friends.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: You might have found a particular space that you can visit on a regular basis, where all those people of said community are there with you and you're prepared to tell anybody if they, if they ask.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think you actually just like offering up this information willy nilly.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Uh, we like our willies here.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Usually opinions of the in-group are more important than the out-group.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: So this is where you personally start to identify and, like the people that are with you, you have group.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, group think is not really that good of a word but you start doing that kind of sort of okay, you may get angry about treatment from the out group.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is where you start.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, getting woke.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: That's where you start.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: The woke ism cultural and societal.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Cultural and societal influence plays a huge role in showing identity.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: So all these different things are starting to come out there and you're more proud of it.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: So, identity, pride this is where this comes in.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: And then, finally, the sixth stage if you manage to make it out of that one is identity synthesis, raspberry Synthesis, raspberry this is synthesis is when you're at peace with the identity.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: You're prepared to tell anybody you might shout it out this out in the streets or a parade and you start mixing with equal.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: You start mixing equal proportion of in group and out group.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: So this is where you find balance in life, because you do have friends that are not necessarily part of the group or community life, because you do have friends that are not necessarily part of the group or community but you still are friends with them.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: You don't have to be, you know a hundred percent, have things in common with your friends.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to make an assumption, everybody knows how to make friends, but you know you in general know how to make a friend and keep friends.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: So this is where this happens here, where you find balance in life.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: And I don't know about y'all if you have any experience with this, but I myself tend to bounce in and out of synthesis and, of course, all the different stages, and sometimes it depends on the day really to be the same group of people and it's like, okay, now we are synthesis with each other.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: But then I bounced back to acceptance and then I jump to comparison and then we're back in synthesis.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, yeah, neuro spicy, I mean that kind of does with that.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: The feelings and emotions kind of dictate how you do in the day.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And then you, you know, you meditate, and then you've, you know, hopefully you can survive for another day.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I say hopefully you can survive another day.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: With whatever coping mechanism you need, I prefer meditation.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: That's just how it is.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I prefer to meditate and deal with all my anxiety, anxieties that way.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: But you know, some people use drugs.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: They see their psychiatrist and they get a prescription.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: However you have to do it is good for you.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: But when you are in synthesis synthesis realize.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: You realize that identity is just a part of life and there are many other important aspects to life.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: This is where the lifestyle starts digging in.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, I am, this, it's just a part of who I am, and you kind of move between this or that binary worldview, dichotomized worldview, and you incorporate the so-and-so identity to a holistic sense of self.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: This is just who I am.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: You become outcome agnostic.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: This is whatever happens with other people.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: That's good for them, but for me, this is how I identify, and so-and-so, such for it, and I have friends that are part of this and some people accept me and some people don't.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, it was a good friendship while it lasted, or family, ship or whatever have relationship, however you want to put it, and it just didn't work out because they didn't accept you for who you are.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: But you are comfortable with that, totally fine.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so this is the cast model that was developed in 1979, as I said in the beginning, some scholars did criticize the model because Vivian, dr CAS sure, cas made it.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Originally it was supposed to be sequential but, as I said in the beginning, it is uh, you don't have you can jump back and forth, okay and yeah.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: So it is kind of weird because from the tone, uh, of the actual model, I guess the scholars assume that she was like, hey, this is, once you figure this out, it's done.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: But the journey is a lifelong process.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: So the article I'm reading it takes that viewpoint and I'm in agreement with that.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: It's a journey, people, you're I don't know how to break this to you but it's a journey.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: You're going to be dealing with this stuff for the rest of your life and hopefully you are of the type that goes out and tries new things and and, um, does new stuff.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I'm like, even now, I've been, uh, in my current region for over a decade and I'm still running into different groups out there.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: It was like, oh, you've been here this whole time.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, wait, I, I like that thing.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Wait, I like that thing.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: So I'm starting all over with the confusion.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh man, this is what I've been feeling this whole time and there's a group for it and they accept me and it's like, oh, let me try this out.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, this is going to be a process for all the different things out there.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Now, if you're the type of person that enjoys where you are, that's all good too.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I would still argue you probably go through this different things, you know, depending on the day.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: We all got some neurodivergency in us there.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: So, you know, I would argue it depends on the day and how you're feeling and your mood and all that.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's how it is.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: But before I finish here, because my time is almost out, I'm going to go through some more criticisms.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: So one thing or another thing I guess to say, besides the fact that it's the cast models a lifelong process is that it does not take into account the social cultural factors that impact identity development.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: So, yes, there are different cultures I am of the POC culture, the Asian and black and stuff and yeah, there's a lot of homophobia.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Ok, not a generality, it's kind of a fact.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: If you know anything about it, it it's just how it is.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, oh goodness, so many thoughts and opinions about that, but whatever.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: So, having to deal with that as well, because uh, cast, when she was doing this research, was the indian culture, so I mean, I related to it because I am from an asian culture.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: But you know, depends on where you're at, you still will probably have these kind of things if you're realizing your queer self or whatever community that you're part of.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: And you know, unfortunately, the cast, it's a generality, okay, so you know you may go through these same things.
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: Another criticism is the nature of the social stigma and its management.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Practices have changed since the exception of the model.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: So, yes, the pride is more of a thing now.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It's more accepted, more accepted, not 100%, but we're getting there.
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: So in 1979, as you know, it was like the free movement time coming out of there and we're getting into the 80s so it didn't really develop, but I still say that in general it holds true.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: I know I feel confusion many times.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: The linear nature suggests that anyone who abandons the model, fails to grow through all the stages, would not be considered a well-adjusted person, which may or may not be true, sure, I mean, yeah, that's an okay criticism.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I give it like a fail for the most part, a 49 out of 100.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Because it's like, all right, when you're reading this you want to oh boy, I hope at this point, when you hear these kind of things, you realize life is a spectrum.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: So you're going to go up and down with this whole entire thing.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: It's just something that's going to happen.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so it's all a spectrum.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: It's a spectrum okay.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's all a spectrum.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: It's a spectrum, okay.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And then, uh, importance of social context is understated in these models, while only emphasizing what has been assigned to the relationship between identity and behavior.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, yes, societies are different.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna go back to that one.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: We know that.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Fail to acknowledge that management of stigma is a lifelong process is never resolved.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, we already said that again.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Tremendous variations in experience brought about by context, race, ethnicity, gender, culture, class and so on are undermined by these models.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: So those criticisms are kind of meh, but I have to put them out there because I did find that during my research.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: So take it as you will.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: People, once again, julius just gives the information.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Do your own damn research and figure it out for yourself.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Experiment, let yourself fail.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: It is 100% okay to fail.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Of course, don't break any laws or anything or harm other people.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, go out there and try it.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: If it works for you, if it doesn't, that might be something you thought was an identifying factor and it actually wasn't.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: So you move on.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, hopefully you're in part of a community or you have good friends that accept you for trying.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: You know and and genuine, try, don't, don't be an asshole.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, we don't, we don't want to be assholes.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: But, good Lord, people want, oh, get rid of those assumptions.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: Ask questions.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, boy, I know it's going to be tough because people are going to see this, you doing this at some point and be like, okay, they're going through a phase, like, no, no, I'm trying to figure myself out, trying to figure out my identity.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: This is what we are trying to do here and I hope that after listening to this pillow fort session here at Around the Kinky Campfire, it helped you a little bit or started you or got you on your journey around the kinky campfire.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: It helped you a little bit or started you or got you on your journey.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Hopefully you realize, huh, this is might be a thing, and I want to research it more and have a conversation with some people.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Maybe you hopefully you have a close friend that you can talk to this about.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Hey, you know, I've heard of this thing called identity confusion.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Do I display these factors to you and they'd be like, oh yeah, that was that, and then you can explore it together.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: That might be a thing.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Or you have a partner that you can do that with, lucky you, and begin the journey from here.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: But for now, this is your host, taco Knuckle, the Cuddle Gigolo, the Cuddliest of Gigolo.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Officially, hh Julius, your entertainment creative.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Please join us for new episodes.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: We missed last week.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: This week Are we on time?
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: We missed one of the weeks, but hopefully new episodes every Thursday of the year thus far.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: And come to the Instagram CampfireKingsers Campfire with a K, always Campfire with a K, always Campfire with a K.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And let us know what you think of these episodes and catch you next time on the Pillfort Sessions of Around the Kinky Campfire.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Hello.