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100. What Are You Doing in Security? · You've Been Heard

• 0:09
  Speaker A: Welcome back to Dissecting Popular IT Nerds. Today we are talking with Stefan Waldvigo. Am I. Did I pronounce that right?
• 0:18
  Speaker B: Yes, that's correct.
• 0:19
  Speaker A: All right, now, honestly, I wanted to have you on the show because you probably are one. You give more. You give so much back to the community on LinkedIn and it really shows. So I want to have you on the show just because. Just because, man. Because you give out so much really valuable information to everyone out there in the community. So I think on behalf of everyone that reads all your posts and gets everything on LinkedIn, I just want to say thank you.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: Thank you for you having me on your show.
• 0:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you apply, you applied for. You've applied for one job. It's in watching the amount of work that you do and the amount of time that you put into things. It's. It really. It just leads me to believe of how hard it must be for someone to find a job in security. How hard is it?
• 1:20
  Speaker B: I think it's not so hard, but I'm very picky. I want to work for the right employer. I want to have, like a job that I love to do. So I'm very carefully targeting one company and then I do networking and then I met people online before I apply, and then I maybe go to different person and this person know this company and I get more out of it. So.
• 1:47
  Speaker A: No, I mean, that's a good thing because then you end up working for someone that you want to work for. Give me, give me your general background, man. Like, what, what was, what was your first computer? How did you get started in this whole mess?
• 2:02
  Speaker B: Oh, I would say I started about 25 years ago. My parents were a little poor a little bit. And then they say, ah, we have to buy my son a computer. So I get more pride. And actually I got in a compute and then I lost the stuff and I broke stuff and I fixed it.
• 2:20
  Speaker A: And then when, when, when was. What was your first computer?
• 2:25
  Speaker B: I think the 15.
• 2:27
  Speaker A: Okay, what, what did you get? Like, what did they bring home for you? Or what did you get? Or did they allow you to. Did they allow you to buy it?
• 2:34
  Speaker B: It was like a Pentium 133 megahertz.
• 2:39
  Speaker A: And see, you're young. You're young.
• 2:41
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 2:42
  Speaker A: You know, you know what I mean? Like, I had fleece, had floppy drives and CD ROMs.
• 2:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:49
  Speaker A: Okay, gotcha. So then what, then what happened? What happened next?
• 2:54
  Speaker B: I went to the military, and then I decided to repair aircraft, actually. So I fixed like, it was like a radar device and I had to program radar and stuff, like electronic counter measuring. And then my boss said, are you a talented it? And I move you to an IT department. And then I was like a database and systems administrator for military aircraft. Yep.
• 3:23
  Speaker A: How was that? How long. How long were you on the aircraft carrier for? Or wherever. How long?
• 3:29
  Speaker B: Five years.
• 3:30
  Speaker A: Okay, and how was it?
• 3:33
  Speaker B: It was like a crash course because like at this time we got a brand new aircraft and we don't have, we didn't have courses, so. So we had to learn everything by its own because the courses were like very outdated and we got a brand new system. So it was like studying, studying, studying.
• 3:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:51
  Speaker B: And then. Yeah.
• 3:52
  Speaker A: From a security standpoint, do you think that's dangerous?
• 3:56
  Speaker B: Oh, yes, it was today. I looked back and then I said, oh no, oh no. We did so many things wrong. But it was like a separate air gap system was not so bad. But still I would do so many things differently.
• 4:12
  Speaker A: Wow. Yeah. Security fascinates me, man. How did. There seems to be this almost like a zoo of people, like this insane, crazy amount of people going into security.
• 4:26
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 4:28
  Speaker A: What is it? Is it just a fascination with how technology has taken over? What's the big. Is it just people think they're going to get rich or they just really like it? What's the deal with security? Why so many people going into security?
• 4:41
  Speaker B: I think it's a form of hype. Like people talk about it and I want to do it and it's like hacking. Like machines make fun and it's like fun.
• 4:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:51
  Speaker B: But it's so much work behind of it. Like if you want to become a penetration tester, you have to study like thousands of hours to reach a level that's useful for our company. But people still don't realize it. I think.
• 5:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's really. I wanted to cry reading your posts. Cry from pain. And I don't mean cry from sadness, I mean cry from pure pain. It reminded me of when I was pre med and studying chemistry and inorganic chemistry and all this stuff and I start looking at all the different maps that you've got out there and I'm like, this is crazy. And you mentioned if you get to this certain level, you'll make 140,000 a year and that's good money. And quite frankly, I don't think that's even close to enough money for the amount of time and pain. And I guess you must really have to love what you're doing to put that much time and effort in. And so there's so many details to it. And you mentioned a lot about certifications and maybe. Maybe just talk to me for a second on why do you think certifications are very important in the field of security to be successful?
• 6:04
  Speaker B: I think it's American style. I moved to America and I didn't have a single one and checked all the top description. Everyone wanted certification and stuff like that, so.
• 6:13
  Speaker A: Okay, good.
• 6:14
  Speaker B: And I tried to start with the basic comp ones and used it to practice English, more or less, because I wanted to learn the English terms.
• 6:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:24
  Speaker B: Like security plus network plus. But these are like very basic to me. I used it like two weeks and I got it. But these are like entry level ones. But then if you do cybersecurity, you need way more than this.
• 6:41
  Speaker A: What if you're just a really smart nerd and you can break into things and do all kinds of crazy stuff and you're just like this crazy hacker guy like everyone imagines, like the stereotypes, right? Like the typical. Like, what if you're just a really smart guy with no certifications? You have to get through that wall of HR recruiters, I guess, so to speak. And I have this philosophy of kind of going around that whole thing. I think you should just find the president of the company that you want to work for and you should go directly to him and say, hey, what's your single biggest fear or concern around security? Or do you even know what that is? And kind of go direct when you find the company that you want to go after. I say just go through every angle to try and get in there. But yeah, there is this. When you say American style, I would think American would be less. Well, I guess there is a strict hiring process, but I would think we'd be a little bit more lax than, say, some other countries that would require you to have a degree and have all these various different bullet points, I guess, so to speak.
• 7:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's true.
• 7:50
  Speaker A: But so coming off the. Coming off the ship and noticing that you did all kinds of screwed up security stuff, what was. Is there a lot of that leftover? Is there a lot of that in existence right now? Like, if you were. If you were to think, like, is there just massive holes for people to. They're just massive security holes everywhere.
• 8:13
  Speaker B: It's hard to say. I think if you work for a company, like, even I studied like about 3,000 hours to reach my level right now, just for fun. And still if I go into a company, people say to me, are you maybe it's your first 12 to 18 months. You're like a noob. Every day you screw things up. And the first year is more or less apprenticeship because you learn the things for the company. So it's very, very hard actually to do the right things and you're useful for a company.
• 8:44
  Speaker A: That's very true of you to say. That's very vulnerable of you to say. So what you're saying is anybody, anybody that goes into any company is going to be just basically swimming for the first 12 months, just trying to figure out what's going on. Trying to find the. Find the hole, so to speak. Or you know, what do you imagine?
• 9:10
  Speaker B: I talk to a lot of seniors because I like to do a lot of networking and they tell me I have this knowledge, they know me. I do sometimes work for them just for fun, to get the feeling. But still they say my knowledge is not enough. So the first 12 months are really painful. And I think it's for everyone who wants to move into cybersecurity. You have to learn so, so much. That's just insane.
• 9:33
  Speaker A: What are we gonna do?
• 9:36
  Speaker B: I think it's, you have to love this kind of stuff without no chance.
• 9:41
  Speaker A: You just have to love it and you have to put in the time. You have to learn all this. Is there any, I don't know, secrets, tricks?
• 9:50
  Speaker B: I think the biggest secret is networking. If you find someone, this person believes in your ability to learn, then this person will hire you and then you can learn on job. I was an immigrant, but I'm an immigrant. I don't have this opportunity so I have to study before I do networking. But if you're American and then maybe you know the right person, then you might get a chance.
• 10:13
  Speaker A: Just out of curiosity, why America?
• 10:18
  Speaker B: My wife is American and she didn't like Germany so we moved to America.
• 10:22
  Speaker A: Oh wow. You know, my brother's the opposite. He graduated from Harvard. He was in the same class as Bill Gates. Bill Gates obviously didn't graduate. My brother went over to Germany and never came back. He married his wife in Germany and I guess he didn't like America so he came over. He stayed in Germany. He has his own software company over there right now. So. Okay, cool, cool. How long is just out of curiosity. What's the difference? Because I love traveling and what's the difference between the two cultures, so to speak. Do you think German and American culture, is there a big difference?
• 10:59
  Speaker B: I would say depends where you are. If you live like near Cologne and then you have like a very open minded area and people if you are American then people are very friendly to you. They want to practice English and they go to the shop and then they invite you to something and drink a beer. But if you are in the south then it's very, very hard to make friends. So it depends on the area.
• 11:20
  Speaker A: I would say why are they so strict down in the south? What's wrong with the people in the South?
• 11:27
  Speaker B: I would say if I look at my parents, they lived for a thousand years in this area and grand grandparents so they live in their own subculture and they don't like there's no change for thousands of years. So they are hard to adapt to new areas. But it's like cities like cologne, maybe 50% foreigners and they're used to it, so it's maybe more. They are just open to it.
• 11:50
  Speaker A: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Talk to me. What's the single biggest frustration, problem or concern with people? I don't know. I don't know what the question would be. What do you think applying for a job in cybersecurity? What's the single biggest frustration, problem or concern?
• 12:18
  Speaker B: I think most people don't have an idea how much it takes to get the first job. Like on average I would say people have to apply for 400 positions to get the job. I try to avoid it, but it takes so much energy and like everyday get rejections, rejections, rejection or you don't get anything back that's like very frustrating.
• 12:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I would, yeah, I would. I couldn't do that. I personally, I could not do that. I absolutely. It doesn't seem right. Do you think, do you think part of it has to do with. Do you think companies take cyber security seriously enough yet? Like, are there a bunch of companies that should have more roles in cybersecurity and they just aren't, they aren't providing those roles or they just don't care enough?
• 13:06
  Speaker B: I think it's more. Cybersecurity is never entry level. So if you go into cybersecurity you defend the company, you defend millions of value. So you cannot go. If you have a degree, then maybe your level is Network plus Security plus or a little bit higher or cisa, but it's very, very little compared to what the company actually needs. So there's a huge gap in knowledge between what you can work for a company and what you get to through a university.
• 13:34
  Speaker A: You just blew my mind. It's never entry level. It's never entry level. So no one should go into. So what should they go into? Systems administration, networking, I think I asked.
• 13:46
  Speaker B: This question on LinkedIn and 50 people responded how they got into cybersecurity. And the question was very interesting, was like network path, of course is one thing, but there are so many different ways. I think 20 different ways. Like if you have skills in social skills, soft skills, you can work for penetration tester because you can convince people, let me in. Without they say, ah, yes, come in. And it's interesting.
• 14:14
  Speaker A: So I could do that. Yes, I could tell. Because I can tell you right now how easy it is to get into a company through their phone system.
• 14:24
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 14:25
  Speaker A: Or to just call their Internet provider and ask for their static IP address.
• 14:31
  Speaker B: Yes. If you have like a special kind of skill and you can sell this skill to a company, to a penetration test company, let's say then you are in and then you add the technical stuff on top of it.
• 14:41
  Speaker A: Okay, I don't have any technical skills. I can talk on the phone. I talked to. Look, I can talk to tech guys. Look, I'll find this guy. His name is Stefan. He came over here from Germany. Don't worry, I'll just, I'll go talk to him. He'll do the work, but I'll get in the company. Don't worry. Somehow I will. I will penetrate you guys.
• 15:00
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 15:05
  Speaker A: Okay, so keep going. So social skills, soft skills. From a penetration testing standpoint, that makes sense. It really is ridiculous how many clients I've called on their behalf, and this is years ago, of course I've called on their behalf, just given them their name, and the person on the other than phone gives me any information I want.
• 15:28
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 15:29
  Speaker A: From like an ISP.
• 15:30
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 15:31
  Speaker A: Oh, you need the static IP. Look, I have a slash 28. I need the slash 28. I ordered it on this day. Like, where's my IP address range? I need it right now. Could you email it to me, please? Yes. Okay, here you go. Or could you give it to. Not kidding. Like is that dangerous, do you think? Like just knowing the static IP range?
• 15:49
  Speaker B: Yes, but it's a good example for transferable skills. If you want to cyber security and you have these transferable skills and then you can say I have this skill set and then you get maybe a shot because you have this unique feeling how to get like information about a different way. Now that's a way into cybersecurity. Or you can even train people. Say, I'm working like this, can you stop me? That's a field, you know.
• 16:14
  Speaker A: Okay, what else we got? So we had some. You said you had like 25, 49 different examples. What are some of the other examples on LinkedIn of how they got into cybersecurity? Let me ask you this too. Well, first of all, let's go through this. I got another question after that, but go ahead.
• 16:30
  Speaker B: I cannot really remember everything, but it was like a very wide field. Let's say some people, some person hacked a grading system in the military, and the supervisor saw it and caught him that, hey, you are a hacker. And so this person got actually a job in cybersecurity just because he hacked the grading system.
• 16:47
  Speaker A: It's like Jeremiah Grossman, he got like a job at Yahoo back in the day because he hacked his own email. Hacked his Yahoo email and sent him a note and was like, hey, I just want to let you know I found a vulnerability in your whatever. And they're like, okay, well, thank you. Can we send you a T shirt? Can you at least give us your address? You don't need to tell us, but we want to. Thank you. And then he got like a job offer at Yahoo because he hacked the email or whatever it was back then. It's a good story. Okay, so we had someone that hacked someone. We've got someone with social skills. What else we got? Actually, out of all the things that you've done on LinkedIn, because it is. You get a. Maybe you shouldn't go into cybersecurity. Maybe you should go into like LinkedIn security, social media training. You know, you should go. You get some pretty. You have some pretty good engagement on all your stuff. And again, I want to say thank you because. And the reason why you get that engagement is you provide so much valuable information. What would you say is the single biggest benefit you found, the single biggest thing you found or discovered on LinkedIn when it comes to cybersecurity?
• 17:58
  Speaker B: I would say I changed to think what people usually do. People usually talk about themselves, like all about me. This is my certification. I did this, I did that, I did this one. So my approach was different. I would say, okay, I did this, but you can learn the same things. Or like, I was trying to help people. I started this one year ago. So at first post was maybe 20 views or 50 views, and then it grows over a year. And sometimes now I get like 50,000 views. That's a lot.
• 18:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, I know you do, because I see some that have 389 likes on that. That's got to translate into. Yeah, 50, 80,000. 80,000 views. I had one post a long time ago that got like 84,000 views somehow. And it was just because I said, you know, no one cares about you, IT Director. You know, it was like, no one cares about you. Like, you're the guy that just fixes the blinky lights and people don't even know your name. Why aren't you getting involved in the company? Why aren't you asking questions? Why aren't you getting involved in how the business is growing, these type of things? You know what I mean? Because that's the old stereotype, the IT guy that hides in the server room closet. You know what I mean? That's ideal. I really do like your being on. You were on a ship for five years, is that correct?
• 19:28
  Speaker B: I was on a airport for five years.
• 19:32
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 19:33
  Speaker B: Actually, 10 years, but okay.
• 19:36
  Speaker A: Gotcha. I have another guy that's in my jiu jitsu class that's in. He's in it, and he was on a submarine, like, underwater for, like, four years. And he was the electrician, slash, you know, and eventually got into it as well. It's interesting because a lot of electricians get into it, like, you know, go figure. Or electrical engineers, stuff like that. Yeah. But he had some really. He had some really interesting stories after class one night about a fire underwater and the sub almost sinking, you know, and, like, I was like, hey, are there late? I was like, did those subs leak? He's like, oh, yeah, of course there's a controlled leaks. I was like, that's. That's scary. But. So it wasn't about me, me, me. It was about helping other people. You started about a year ago, and what has been your biggest discovery? I guess, I mean, what have been some of your biggest discoveries? Looking back over a year, I would.
• 20:31
  Speaker B: Say people love that I help people. Like, I love to help people. And people are very happy to take from me. Like, I arrived in America and had no idea how to get in this job. So I researched a lot, and now I'm sharing all of this knowledge. And to me, it's a lot of fun because I realized I made so much, so many friends, and then people are picking this stuff up, and then they grow with this thing. To me, it's like. It's like. It's insane. I'm like a teacher for thousands of people right now. That's just like. It gives me so much positive energy.
• 21:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. So it's shocking to me that you've only applied for one job. Maybe you don't even need a job. Maybe we can somehow. Maybe you can just keep doing this LinkedIn thing, find a way to monetize it or something, you know what I mean? Like, vote for me.
• 21:22
  Speaker B: So I think it's like I'm creating a website, but I don't want to monetize it because I want to provide some knowledge for free and I want to interact with people and all of these things.
• 21:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, of course. Besides, if it's, if it's as successful as your LinkedIn thing, people will just come offer you money anyways to advertise on your website. You won't have to monetize it. There'll be some security company that wants to advertise on your website and you'll be like, I don't know, you have to put up.
• 21:49
  Speaker B: Yes, that's actually true.
• 21:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, you have to put up a warning sign. It's like, I do not endorse any of these companies. They just pay me money. You know what I mean? It's the same thing with this podcast. I'm still waiting for someone to come offer me money. Someday, Someday I hope someone will come and say, hey Phil, thanks for doing this podcast. Can we advertise on your website? And at that point, maybe I'll say yes. At that point it's. How stressful is it to come into a foreign country not being able to speak the language? And where do you get the confidence to learn to speak the language? And I'm asking that purely selfishly, this is all about me, me, me. Because I have never learned a second language. I'm studying a second language and I would love more than anything to be able to speak any language as good as you speak English as a second language.
• 22:40
  Speaker B: I was not afraid to move to a new country.
• 22:43
  Speaker A: What's exciting when you first get there, everything's new, it's different, it's a different culture. It's different than how you grew up. Like from that point, it's good. But what about, I mean, getting involved in the work, community and jobs and all that stuff, you're definitely putting in more work than everybody else.
• 22:58
  Speaker B: Yes, that's true. If you come to a new country as an immigrant, then you have to put more work in it. That's true. But on the other side, let's say compared Germany to America, in America it's a low tax land. So even if I can make some 70,000 or 50,000 and I still make more money than in Germany, if I have like a high end job. So here it's like I'm coming to a paradise. Like if low cost cars, gas is cheap, everything is here so cheap, and the salaries are so High, like, and that's why it's like, a huge motivation.
• 23:33
  Speaker A: Wow, you're really making Germany. You're not making Germany look too good. So you're saying if I go to Germany, I'll be paid a lot less and everything will be more expensive.
• 23:45
  Speaker B: In short, I would say I made about, like, $65,000 euros. But the tax rate and what's going was like, 40% was going to the tax and the government stuff, and then on top of it, it was like, 90% VAT. If you compare this to America, 40%.
• 24:03
  Speaker A: They're taking 40. So they're taking 40 cents of every dollar of mine.
• 24:08
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 24:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's.
• 24:10
  Speaker B: And if you buy something, you have to pay 90% VAT on top of it, so. And in America, you have a higher salary. You have. In Texas, I don't have income tax. It's like 7% or something. Or 12%.
• 24:25
  Speaker A: I see.
• 24:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's it.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: You probably get taxed at maximum, 15%, and then you can probably get half of it back for all kinds of other things. Plus, we're sending you Covid relief checks. Probably.
• 24:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:37
  Speaker A: Did you get a Covid relief check? I'm still waiting for the third check. I really want the third check. I have eight kids. Do you have any idea how big that third Covid relief check is for me? It's like, a ridiculous amount of money, but I don't think I'm getting it. They're like, this guy's got a podcast. He does not deserve this. So what's the future look like for you? What's your big goal or plan? Doesn't sound like you're too. Like, you're not in a hurry to get a job in cybersecurity. You're having fun doing what you're doing. What's your. You know, what's the big goal or plan?
• 25:13
  Speaker B: Actually, if, like, my goal is to get, like, a good shop and where I can also people and where I love to work. So let's say it doesn't matter where I work, but if I love what I'm doing and then it's like a hobby, so I don't care about hours. I can wait, like, 80 hours a week, and it's less. I trust your legs and enjoy it. That's my.
• 25:35
  Speaker A: You shouldn't say that. You shouldn't tell people that. There's always a job. There's always a boss out there that's like, wait a second. Now I can abuse this person. 80 hours. Okay, you're hired. What? What would the perfect job look like for you?
• 25:51
  Speaker B: I think the perfect shop would look like I have a nice boss and I like this boss a lot. And there's like, I can ask people for knowledge. Let's say I run a problem, then they have no problem with me opening a zoom session for one or two hours and explain me each small thing. That would be awesome. And maybe I get like a budget for certifications or training.
• 26:15
  Speaker A: What. As far as the security position, though, what do you see yourself doing, like, in the company? What are you doing for the company? How are you giving back? What are you providing them?
• 26:25
  Speaker B: I would say I have a very wide knowledge for a beginner. I can work on the right side as penetration tester. I can work on the blue side as defender. I can work as an engineer, cybersecurity engineer already. So I'm very open to everything, what I like to do.
• 26:42
  Speaker A: Can you explain this blue and red side thing for all of us morons out here that don't know that, and for all the presidents of companies and other people that don't understand this blue, red thing, can you explain that?
• 26:53
  Speaker B: Yes. Like, so red side is like, you attack companies, but you have a permission to do that. Let's say I attack Company X and then I say this website is not secure. I can. I can hack into the system and then I show them how I did that and then they fix this problem. The blue side is more like it's a defender position. And then someone else hacks in or tries to see the logs and I change the security. So I keep them out. Maybe one part of it, but actually I would like the purple side. That's a mix of both.
• 27:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Why not? Why not? We need a purple side for anyone over the age of 70 years old. And I am just. So everyone knows. Yes. I am stereotyping people. This is completely wrong. I am saying that old people are not as good at technology. Yes, I just said it. It's wrong. It's wrong. And I only say that because I bought my father. I use my father as an example. He's actually very, very smart. But he's 85 years old and he has all these devices. I mean, he's got iPads. He now has, you know, he's got an iPhone. He's got his computer. He refuses to get rid of his old computer. It's got Windows XP or worse. It might even have. I don't. It's worse. It's older version. I can't ever remember. He refuses to upgrade. I tried to get him A new computer once and he's like, get out of here and plug my old one back in. Because he's got some old calendar program on it that no one makes anymore. It's not supported. But he's so used to his, you know, I gotta print out this yearly calendar anyways. There's nothing for consumer security, isn't there? The consumers were done. It's over for us, right? If anyone wants to just attack the older consumer industry, there's no purple cybersecurity guy helping them.
• 28:51
  Speaker B: I think that's not even true because like big companies, like, let's say you have, like, I work for Airbus, actually, they have software that are outdated, but it's part of the aircraft, so you cannot upgrade it.
• 29:07
  Speaker A: Are you saying, Are you talking about the flight numbers?
• 29:11
  Speaker B: Like that flat computers in it, and they are run with maybe Windows xp. So you cannot upgrade it. And you have to find a different way to secure the systems. So there are ways to do this, but of course it's like obnoxious. But some companies have a need for outdated systems, so you cannot patch these things and you have to find a way to secure it. Even. Maybe your dad is extreme. Example, if he goes to the Internet, maybe in five minutes he already has a reverse shut on the machine. It's so easy.
• 29:40
  Speaker A: But yeah, well, no, he just lets. He just talks with Steve that calls him from Microsoft. I'm like, dad, stop talking with Steve that calls you from Microsoft. First of all, Microsoft is not calling you. And I always, you know, and I start getting these. So I set up all this dual factor authentication and everything, right? And I've got like my cell phone and my wife's cell phone attached to like all of his accounts. So I know the second something's going wrong because I start getting multiple alerts on all my devices. Like the password has been changed. Like this is, you know, and I'm getting alerts. I'm like, oh, call him up, dad, what are you doing? I can't remember my password to this. So anyways, that's a whole nother story. If there was any piece of advice or anything that you could. Is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to talk about that we should be talking about?
• 30:31
  Speaker B: Not really. Like, I enjoy it. For me it's like practice English and talking to people. I enjoy this. Sometimes I offer like just for fun, but one hour zoom lesson for mentoring and you did the same with me.
• 30:43
  Speaker A: So like, okay, so wait, hold on. No one's ever given away anything on this show, you're giving something away. No one has ever done that. And you have completely offered this. You're going to offer a one hour. What?
• 30:55
  Speaker B: Like I offer a one hour zoom meeting. Like if there's something they want to break into cybersecurity. And then you can say hi and then you drop a message and then we can. I can share my knowledge. It's actually a lot. So I can try to help you.
• 31:09
  Speaker A: That's actually a great. That's an awesome idea too. Just for just in general, you know, even learning another language, offering to provide a skill that you have so that you can also benefit at the same time and network. So anyone out there listening that wants to connect with Stefan, his link will be in this episode. I will definitely find him on LinkedIn. You already know. Anyways, you're going to post this episode on LinkedIn. Hopefully we get 50,000 views for you. But, you know, reach out to do a one hour zoom meeting. You're gonna have to cut that back now. Maybe you're gonna get like 30. Maybe you get like, you know, 30,000 Zoom meeting requests. Yeah. And then you'll be overflowed when you've got something going on here. Again, thank you so much for everything that you do to give back to everything that you're doing to add value to the cybersecurity community. It's been a pleasure having you on the show.
• 32:06
  Speaker B: Thank you.