Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 281. When Menopause Meets Divorce: Hot Flashes, Heartbreak & Rebuilding Your Identity

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281. When Menopause Meets Divorce: Hot Flashes, Heartbreak & Rebuilding Your Identity · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

0:49
SPEAKER_07: What happens when the biggest emotional transition of your life, read divorce, collides with the biggest physical one?
0:56
SPEAKER_07: Menopause doesn't just steal your sleep, it messes with your hormones, your mood, your memory, your libido, and when it hits during or after divorce, it can make you question every dang thing your body, your choices, and especially your worth.
1:13
SPEAKER_07: Today we have a treat.
1:15
SPEAKER_07: The women of Menopause Love Lounge are joining us here on Dear Divorce Diary.
1:20
SPEAKER_07: Six women, six stories to talk about the moment when hot flashes and heartbreak collided, and how to turn the chaos of midlife into your comeback.
1:36
SPEAKER_07: Hi, love.
1:37
SPEAKER_07: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.
1:47
SPEAKER_07: I'm your host, Don Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorcee.
1:53
SPEAKER_07: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
2:06
SPEAKER_07: What an exciting day! I am joined by the women of Menopause Love Lounge, an amazing new podcast that I have been invited to.
2:14
SPEAKER_07: And so we have such a treat with us today: five powerhouse guests who are pulling back the curtain and sharing their own midlife confessions, the meltdowns, the miracles, and the messy middle of it all.
2:27
SPEAKER_07: At the top of the episode, I'm going to introduce each of the ladies of the lounge to you, and you're going to hear each of them share what they noticed when relationship failure or struggles intersected with menopause.
2:40
SPEAKER_07: And then later, we're actually going to look at some fascinating data that sort of talks about the likelihood of divorce happening during a menopausal season and how the research explains why so many women find themselves questioning everything between ages 40 and 55.
2:58
SPEAKER_07: And then at the end, we're going to have a totally different flavor than we usually do on Deer Divorce Diary.
3:02
SPEAKER_07: We're going to play a super fun game that we play over on Menopausal Love Lounge.
3:06
SPEAKER_07: So if you love it, make sure you go over there to check it out.
3:09
SPEAKER_07: It is going to be called Hot Flash or Red Flag.
3:13
SPEAKER_07: And it's going to be hilarious and healing at the same time.
3:17
SPEAKER_07: Ladies, welcome to Deer Divorce Diary.
3:19
SPEAKER_07: Thank you for being here with me today.
3:21
SPEAKER_07: Thanks for having us.
3:23
SPEAKER_07: I am really excited to introduce each of you to our listeners because I've been over in Menopause Love Lounge, which Menopause Love Lounge with you ladies for, I don't know, it's been a couple months now, yeah?
3:34
SPEAKER_07: So I am really excited for our listeners on Dear Divorce Diary to get to meet my friends.
3:39
SPEAKER_07: All right.
3:39
SPEAKER_07: So I'm going to introduce you as you share your sort of hot flash confession confession, right?
3:44
SPEAKER_07: So let's start with this morning.
3:48
SPEAKER_07: Let's start with sharing your OSHIP moment where like heartbreak intersected with menopause.
3:54
SPEAKER_07: Andrea, let's start with you because you the menopause love lounge is your brainchild.
3:58
SPEAKER_07: It's your baby.
3:59
SPEAKER_07: You thought of it, you dreamed it up, you visioned it, and then you invited us all.
4:04
SPEAKER_07: And we are all so much more blessed because of your idea, baby.
4:08
SPEAKER_07: So thank you for being our divorced and hilarious, allergic to pretending host of the lounge.
4:17
SPEAKER_05: Thank you for having me, Dawn.
4:19
SPEAKER_05: I love that introduction.
4:21
SPEAKER_05: First of all, I love that y'all think I'm so hilarious.
4:23
SPEAKER_05: I really try at that.
4:25
SPEAKER_05: You keep us laughing.
4:27
SPEAKER_05: That's my job.
4:29
SPEAKER_05: So for me, my OSHIP moment was it was shortly after my divorce.
4:33
SPEAKER_05: So after I got divorced, I came out guns ablazing.
4:37
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, I am getting back out there.
4:39
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna start dating and I'm going young.
4:42
SPEAKER_05: That was my my thought.
4:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
4:44
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, get it, Andrew.
4:47
SPEAKER_05: Right.
4:47
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, oh, well, my body's ready for this.
4:50
SPEAKER_05: I'm ready for a young man.
4:51
SPEAKER_05: I can do all this.
4:52
SPEAKER_05: So I started my search for this like young attractive man on the dating apps.
4:55
SPEAKER_05: That's where I went.
4:56
SPEAKER_05: I probably set my filter.
4:58
SPEAKER_05: I know it was under 30 because the guy I went out with was 29.
5:01
SPEAKER_05: So I know.
5:03
SPEAKER_05: And so um, you know, I thought I was really ready for it and I and I felt I deserved it.
5:08
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, I'm ready for some hot young sex, no joke.
5:11
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, okay, I'm ready for this.
5:14
SPEAKER_05: But what I wasn't prepared for was the anxiousness that came along with, you know, not being chosen or being spoken to like I was a hookup.
5:24
SPEAKER_05: Like that's how it felt because I was older.
5:26
SPEAKER_05: They're like, ooh, a cougar.
5:28
SPEAKER_05: And you know, all the young guys are all like, oh, but women are wiser and better in bed.
5:32
SPEAKER_05: Like that's what they all say, right?
5:33
SPEAKER_05: So it just gave me this uh feeling like I didn't feel like I thought I was gonna feel.
5:39
SPEAKER_05: I felt very like alone in it.
5:42
SPEAKER_05: And you know, I started dating this guy, and it was for a few months before we were even intimate.
5:47
SPEAKER_05: And even up to the few months, it was a little difficult because like we went to a Bon Jovi concert and he's like, huh?
5:52
SPEAKER_05: Who's this?
5:53
SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah, this is boring.
5:55
SPEAKER_05: I'm like, oh, yeah.
5:59
SPEAKER_05: So I was frustrated about that.
6:01
SPEAKER_05: But but the first time you guys that we were intimate when we went up to his room, the lighting that had been set up, like the mirrors that were strategically placed around the room, like I walked into a porn shop and I was like, oh my God, but I'm but I'm also like, I guess this is what they do with the young people because I didn't know divorce, you know, you're you're coming out of being married.
6:27
SPEAKER_05: I was married for 20 years.
6:28
SPEAKER_05: And so I'm like, yeah.
6:30
SPEAKER_05: And so I'm like, this is what I'm gonna do.
6:31
SPEAKER_05: But what I was not prepared for, and y'all are not gonna be prepared for this either, is when he climbed up on me and started slapping me in the face with his penis.
6:41
SPEAKER_05: And you had to let Andrews go first.
6:45
SPEAKER_05: Was there any comment on this?
6:48
SPEAKER_05: I know.
6:49
SPEAKER_05: And you can find this episode on my podcast from Mrs.
6:52
SPEAKER_05: to Miz.
6:53
SPEAKER_05: It's called Dick Slapped because that is exactly what happened.
6:58
SPEAKER_05: I was dodging this thing.
7:00
SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm like, he's lost.
7:01
SPEAKER_05: It's it's still there, you know.
7:04
SPEAKER_05: I'm like trying to catch it with my mouth.
7:07
SPEAKER_05: It was a mess, you guys.
7:08
SPEAKER_05: And I started crying.
7:11
SPEAKER_05: I started crying in the middle of it.
7:13
SPEAKER_05: I became so emotional because I just didn't see it coming and no pun intended there, but I didn't.
7:17
SPEAKER_05: And the fear and the insecurity that my body wasn't perfect.
7:22
SPEAKER_05: I was so worried about all of that, and then he's doing all of this.
7:25
SPEAKER_05: It was just so much.
7:26
SPEAKER_05: And so, yeah, it's just a lot of it.
7:29
SPEAKER_05: You're I know I needed a good hug, not a dick in the face.
7:33
SPEAKER_05: So, anyways, my fear, I had a lot of fears going on there, you know, just that my libido wasn't where it was where it needed to be because I was 43, I think, at the time.
7:43
SPEAKER_05: So I was already going through paramenopause.
7:46
SPEAKER_05: You know, I was going through all of these different things.
7:48
SPEAKER_05: It was just too much.
7:49
SPEAKER_05: It was too much.
7:49
SPEAKER_05: And I think for me, that was definitely, oh shit, what am I doing?
7:53
SPEAKER_05: And now I go older.
7:55
SPEAKER_05: The young guys ain't got nothing.
7:57
SPEAKER_04: Dawn, Dawn, at the end of the episode, can Andrea tell us what happened after she started crying?
8:02
SPEAKER_04: Can we just have that as a cliffhanger?
8:04
SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned.
8:05
SPEAKER_04: Stay tuned.
8:07
SPEAKER_04: There you go.
8:08
SPEAKER_04: Oh shit.
8:09
SPEAKER_04: Because for me, that story is incomplete.
8:11
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, what what a vulnerable and I think very relatable share.
8:15
SPEAKER_07: I don't know about the dick slapping piece, but like about how hard that is to get back out there.
8:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and not being not prepared for certain things.
8:23
SPEAKER_05: Well, and I think a lot of women that are going through divorce and and a lot of your listeners can really relate to that because you're lost coming out and you're thinking, oh, I'm gonna go this route, and this is where, oh, this is gonna be right for me.
8:35
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's perfect.
8:36
SPEAKER_05: They're gonna love me.
8:37
SPEAKER_05: And then you are just so out of your element, and you have to like regroup and figure out, okay, where am I?
8:45
SPEAKER_05: And so it was just take some time off and figure out what I'm looking for.
8:49
SPEAKER_05: That was definitely not the right route.
8:51
SPEAKER_05: Guns went back in.
8:53
SPEAKER_05: Put your guns away.
8:54
SPEAKER_05: Put your guns away.
8:56
SPEAKER_07: Okay, I would love to introduce Ozzie Osborne.
9:01
SPEAKER_07: She is our straight talk life coach with main character energy.
9:05
SPEAKER_07: Ozzie.
9:05
SPEAKER_07: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
9:07
SPEAKER_06: Thank you for having me.
9:08
SPEAKER_06: How do you follow the dick flap?
9:11
SPEAKER_06: I don't know.
9:12
SPEAKER_06: With a good cry, that's how.
9:14
SPEAKER_06: Aw.
9:15
SPEAKER_06: Oh man.
9:17
SPEAKER_06: So my oh sh when I was thank you for that's what a wonderful question because I it brought me really far back.
9:23
SPEAKER_06: Well, far back about what 14 years ago, when I found out my then husband had an affair.
9:29
SPEAKER_06: And where the oh shit moment was just my body, I almost felt like my soul left my body when I found the day I found out.
9:38
SPEAKER_06: And it was this this almost undoing and the separation from from me, what I knew, my body, and then my soul kind of hovering above.
9:47
SPEAKER_06: And as he's sharing details with me, I remember distinctly how how there's a there's almost like a sense of I'm getting a little emotional as I'm even thinking of it, but there was like a sense of I'm gonna be okay.
10:03
SPEAKER_06: I'm gonna be okay.
10:04
SPEAKER_06: It's uh it was a it was a eerly sense of calm, almost, almost godlike, almost just spirit the spiritual moment of of I'm gonna be okay.
10:15
SPEAKER_06: And I and right after you found out.
10:17
SPEAKER_06: Right after I found out about the affair.
10:19
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
10:20
SPEAKER_06: And I remember I remember years later as I was sort of getting to know my my perimenopause journey, I remember that and the anxiety and and the the depression and the things that came with with perimenopause um and then not knowing what would happen.
10:43
SPEAKER_06: I remember feeling something similar where my again, my soul left the body and I was feeling the sense of like you're gonna be okay.
10:50
SPEAKER_06: It was this calm sense.
10:52
SPEAKER_06: And and I don't know if if you could connect the two, but I almost feel like that was preparing me for the undoing of who I was to then the becoming of who I get to be.
11:05
SPEAKER_06: And I think that that that yeah, that that was my ocean moment.
11:11
SPEAKER_04: Wow, so powerful.
11:13
SPEAKER_04: Nice.
11:14
SPEAKER_04: That's how you follow Dick Slap.
11:20
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
11:21
SPEAKER_07: I think that thank God for spirituality when we go through these types of transformations, right?
11:26
SPEAKER_07: Whether it's divorce or it's menopause.
11:28
SPEAKER_07: And I love how you always bring us back to that like deeply powerful anchoring.
11:35
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
11:36
SPEAKER_07: Amazing.
11:38
SPEAKER_07: Lori Gerber, our professional truth teller and newly minted host of your brand new podcast, Love at Any Age.
11:48
SPEAKER_07: Congrats, girl.
11:51
SPEAKER_07: A baby too.
11:52
SPEAKER_07: You have a baby.
11:54
SPEAKER_07: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
11:55
SPEAKER_07: Tell us about your oh shit moment of, you know, relationship dysfunction meets hormones.
12:02
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
12:02
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
12:03
SPEAKER_04: So I have shared this on menopause Love Lounge, and I'm happy to say I've only had one oh shit moment where those two collided.
12:11
SPEAKER_04: And I am speaking as someone who has been with the same man for 30 years.
12:15
SPEAKER_04: So this oh shit moment happened about, oh, I want to say two years ago.
12:22
SPEAKER_04: Perry Menopause going strong.
12:25
SPEAKER_04: I told my husband how I wanted the kitchen to get cleaned up.
12:29
SPEAKER_04: I thought I had all the rights in the world to lead the way on that particular evening.
12:36
SPEAKER_04: And he did not do it the way I asked.
12:39
SPEAKER_04: And I lost my mind.
12:41
SPEAKER_04: I lost my mind.
12:42
SPEAKER_04: And I don't know, I it was also an out-of-body experience, Ozzy, because I was just like, I'll give up every I'll burn this place to the ground.
12:50
SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't, I don't care.
12:52
SPEAKER_04: I don't care about anything.
12:53
SPEAKER_04: I was screaming like a maniac in front of my aunt, uncle, mother, my children.
12:57
SPEAKER_04: Like I broke all my rules.
12:59
SPEAKER_04: I flipped out.
13:00
SPEAKER_04: And I and I I think I even cried myself to sleep, which I don't even think I've done since I was a teenager.
13:07
SPEAKER_04: So I mean, yeah, it's like a menopausal billboard.
13:11
SPEAKER_04: It it it was so art archetypical.
13:14
SPEAKER_04: Is that a word?
13:15
SPEAKER_04: It was I felt that I was being very quintessential in that moment.
13:18
SPEAKER_04: And I think maybe also for the first time, I went to bed angry.
13:22
SPEAKER_04: I was like ready to be done.
13:24
SPEAKER_04: Like this is this is not okay.
13:26
SPEAKER_04: And I believe when my husband woke up the next morning, he was like, uh-oh.
13:31
SPEAKER_04: And uh by the way, I'm usually wrong.
13:33
SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm usually wrong.
13:35
SPEAKER_04: I'm not like, and I'm okay that I'm wrong.
13:37
SPEAKER_04: I'm okay that I have to apologize.
13:39
SPEAKER_04: I I that is it is not a big feature of my relationship that my husband comes back and says, sorry, you know, I was wrong.
13:47
SPEAKER_04: You know, and and I don't even know, by the way.
13:49
SPEAKER_04: I don't think he was particularly wrong, honestly.
13:52
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think I I could argue both ways, but but he did a little Googling on menopause overnight and and ordered himself a book and just and did the statistics, you know, looked up the research as to, you know, women asking for divorces during uh perimenopause.
14:08
SPEAKER_04: And he came back and said, I don't really care who's right or wrong.
14:11
SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna listen better.
14:13
SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna say I'm sorry, and I'm gonna help you figure out what you need to feel calm enough in in these moments.
14:20
SPEAKER_04: And it has been much better since.
14:23
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
14:23
SPEAKER_07: Lori, on behalf of every single Deer Divorce Diary listener, do you think your husband would be our temporary like figure, like husband figurehead?
14:32
SPEAKER_07: Do you think we could adopt him?
14:34
SPEAKER_07: Do you think we could get him his own email address?
14:36
SPEAKER_04: Can I tell you?
14:39
SPEAKER_04: He has been he uh uh created a a st a study, a whole study.
14:44
SPEAKER_04: He called it gyne astrology.
14:46
SPEAKER_04: It was the stu the the male study of women's spirituality, stut the study of women's study of spirituality.
14:54
SPEAKER_04: He calls it gyne astrology, and he has written about studying women's spiritual study.
15:00
SPEAKER_04: Whoa.
15:01
SPEAKER_04: So he he is an ally, he really, really is an ally.
15:05
SPEAKER_04: He's a good role model.
15:06
SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, we're gonna have to I admit it, being close to him.
15:10
SPEAKER_06: And Andrea and I can can you know have he would he would be a guest, he would be a guest, and he would be funny.
15:17
SPEAKER_04: But he also takes a really long time to make a point, though.
15:20
SPEAKER_04: So that's something something you have to keep in mind.
15:28
SPEAKER_07: Oh, all right.
15:29
SPEAKER_07: Juni Moon, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, our intimacy whisperer, and the uh the woman who helps us really understand how to trade people pleasing for pleasure.
15:45
SPEAKER_07: Welcome.
15:46
SPEAKER_07: And tell us about your oh shit moment.
15:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it your your um who I am, what you just described, is is perfect for my oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.
15:57
SPEAKER_03: Because I had a I I had a few oh shit moments.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:59
SPEAKER_03: Uh so I was dating, um, so I wasn't even in a relationship when the shit hit the fan, where my vagina just was like, ouch, you know, I mean, like, like seriously, and I know I spoke about this on the menopause love lounge where it literally felt like razor blades.
16:17
SPEAKER_03: And after so many years of being in a marriage where intimacy was so challenged and I wasn't getting my needs met, and I had to really learn how to take care of myself and be able to have good communication and set boundaries, which never worked in my my marriage.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: And and being able to really take care of myself, to suddenly be dating and having this issue, it really dropped me into um a very scary place because I suddenly went back into and who's gonna want me?
16:47
SPEAKER_03: Can I even have pleasure anymore?
16:50
SPEAKER_03: Um all the stuff, you know.
16:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and thankfully, because of the tools that I have been, what is it, honing in on for these years, right?
17:01
SPEAKER_03: And what I teach, I really embrace this moment as a okay, how do I have uh a better communication with people to say, hey, there's nothing wrong with me.
17:12
SPEAKER_03: I need to to have some help here and to actually dialogue about it differently.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: So it actually empowered me.
17:19
SPEAKER_03: It actually brought me closer to uh taking better, deeper care for myself and and also reaching out to professionals to find out what I can do differently.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it I felt betrayed by my pussy, and it was so sad.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: It was I always loved sex, and I never got to have the deep pleasure I wanted with my husband, and here I am going, oh my God, and now I'm broken.
17:45
SPEAKER_03: But the good news is I'm not broken and I'm totally fine now.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: So having great sex is hard.
17:50
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, and having great sex, absolutely great juicy sex, yeah.
17:54
SPEAKER_07: The having great sex part two, I think that nobody's gonna want me.
17:57
SPEAKER_07: Like, I don't hear enough of this conversation, and maybe it's because I'm still on the younger side of perimenopause, but women talking about being divorced and dating and dealing with menopause and not feeling that sort of attractiveness that we associate with youth and not knowing how to own our sexiness and our attractiveness and our pleasure in this season of life.
18:19
SPEAKER_07: I think men expecting women to look young and all of that, I think women get really overwhelmed by that.
18:24
SPEAKER_07: So thank you so much for calling.
18:25
SPEAKER_07: Thank you.
18:26
SPEAKER_07: Karen Via.
18:28
SPEAKER_05: Hello.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: All episode on itself.
18:34
SPEAKER_06: We need an episode for her pussy, yeah.
18:36
SPEAKER_07: Karen, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
18:39
SPEAKER_07: We love the show Welegant Woman Redefining Midlife that you host.
18:44
SPEAKER_07: You are one of our wellness realists, and you help women learn that hormones, sleep, and sanity can coexist.
18:52
SPEAKER_07: Yes, they can.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Tell us about your oh shit moment.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: So I'll I'll before I even tell you that moment, what I will say, because I know your audience is an audience of divorced women, and I know that they will get this.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: I found that even when you are the one ending the marriage, divorce is so traumatic.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: It was traumatic for me physically, it was traumatic for me emotionally, it was traumatic for me as a parent.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: And in the year that followed my divorce, I developed such acute anxiety that I really didn't know what to do.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: I saw therapists, I saw doctors, I I, you know, took all the supplements, went to acupuncture, all the things.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: And it was creeping into my life in other ways.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, it wasn't just waking up in the morning feeling anxious, but it was um being out in public and and feeling a wave of anxiety coming on, or being with other couples and feeling like I didn't quite fit in.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: People I used to hang out with suddenly didn't feel comfortable.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: I felt like a fifth wheel.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: So all of these things were just increasing anxiety.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Now, the the the sidebar to this, the side conversation is that, you know, it what I was attributing to my divorce anxiety also, you know, as I later came to learn, had very real physical reasons, right?
20:17
SPEAKER_01: I was I I was in the middle of perimenopause as well.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: And the oh shit moment was when I I was sharing earlier that I was in a supermarket food shopping in the middle of the day, feeling fine when I walked in and just suddenly had this panic attack coming on, and I didn't know what to do, and I left the wagon and I ran out to my car and I ran home.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: And I I all of the anxiety was being compounded by such an intense loneliness because going out no longer felt comfortable for me.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: And I just had lost the ability, probably, you know, perimenopause does this to us, but I lost the ability to put on a smile and fake it.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: I I preferred to be by myself at home than going out and putting on an act.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: And I I was withdrawing more and more, and it wasn't really until I took matters into my own hands and I became certified in women's wellness, and I I really went into this deep dive into what's going on for me physically, but also what's going on for me emotionally.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: And when I attacked it from both of those angles, I was able to make myself feel better and I and I was able to get myself back on track.
21:32
SPEAKER_01: So I guess I guess the message in it for your listeners is it is quite possible.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, it it takes a lot of work, but it's possible to get there for sure.
21:42
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_07: That's amazing.
21:43
SPEAKER_07: I'm gonna piggyback on something that you said, which is that you lost the ability to just sort of put on a smile and go about it, right?
21:51
SPEAKER_07: And I think when we talk about the intersection of perimenopause and relationship health or relationship breakdown and divorce, that's a really interesting and powerful inquiry.
22:02
SPEAKER_07: Is menopause the truth serum that burns away everything else?
22:10
SPEAKER_07: And so then we can't fake it in relationships anymore in the way that we used to.
22:14
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, certainly pro delight.
22:17
SPEAKER_07: And I know Ozzy and I were uh talking recently about Dr.
22:20
SPEAKER_07: Mindy Pell's and her research and menopause and all of that.
22:24
SPEAKER_07: And I heard her talk about how when we hit puberty, how our brain map changes because the hormones flood in and then we become women who adapt in relationship.
22:35
SPEAKER_07: And when menopause comes and those hormones flood out, all of a sudden we're no longer motivated to adapt in relationship in the way that the hormones facilitate it.
22:45
SPEAKER_07: And so if that relationship isn't adapting with us, it's like can it withstand the toll of perimenopause and menopause?
22:53
SPEAKER_07: Right.
22:54
SPEAKER_04: Fascinating.
22:55
SPEAKER_04: So good so real.
22:56
SPEAKER_04: Wow.
22:57
SPEAKER_07: Friends, let's talk about some of the data that just sort of grounds everything that y'all have just shared, right?
23:02
SPEAKER_07: So here's some stats.
23:04
SPEAKER_07: Jump in wherever.
23:06
SPEAKER_07: Women are twice as likely to initiate divorce after 40.
23:10
SPEAKER_07: So, like at that intersection of perimenopause.
23:14
SPEAKER_07: Do you see that in your own marriages, in your friends, in your yeah, what you know?
23:19
SPEAKER_07: Yes, that was kids are me.
23:21
SPEAKER_04: You can stop saying I'm staying for the kids.
23:24
SPEAKER_04: First of all, second of all, you no longer have the buffer.
23:33
SPEAKER_03: It's a wake up call.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: Menopause is a wake-up call, and it's a it's a time for us to like put a stake in the ground and say, It's my turn.
23:40
SPEAKER_03: Is this working for me?
23:41
SPEAKER_03: And if it's not, I'm out of here.
23:43
SPEAKER_03: You know, so yeah, I I really think we give ourselves permission to really step into new chapters when this time happens for us.
23:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
23:52
SPEAKER_05: That was exactly what I did at the at the time.
23:55
SPEAKER_05: My ex-husband hadn't been working for a while.
23:57
SPEAKER_05: So I was paying all of the bills all of the time.
24:00
SPEAKER_05: Everything was on me.
24:01
SPEAKER_05: He was on tour with my son for Kids Bop.
24:04
SPEAKER_05: I was not on, I was just not in love with him anymore.
24:07
SPEAKER_05: And I had that oh shit moment of like, okay, Andre Shouldter, get off the pot, really.
24:12
SPEAKER_05: Like you are now 40, you're in your early 40s, and you're not getting any younger.
24:18
SPEAKER_05: Your body is going through all these changes.
24:20
SPEAKER_05: Like, let's go now, because I don't want to waste another 10 years or whatever in a relationship that no longer serves me.
24:27
SPEAKER_05: And I just felt like there was something more for him and I out there separately.
24:32
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
24:32
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
24:33
SPEAKER_07: Wow.
24:34
SPEAKER_07: So this is not going to be a shocker, but 68% of women report that midlife hormonal shifts intensified their marital dissatisfaction.
24:42
SPEAKER_07: So it's sort of all pointing right to this idea that when a decline in hormones like oxytocin, serotonin, you name it, right, those are the chemicals that buffer that you mentioned.
24:54
SPEAKER_07: There's no buffer left.
24:55
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
24:56
SPEAKER_07: So it's like, oh crap.
24:58
SPEAKER_07: So it's really interesting to consider how many divorces are actually hormone divorces in disguise.
25:05
SPEAKER_07: What are your thoughts?
25:06
SPEAKER_01: I think, I think it requires a great deal of energy to make something okay, to try to fit a a square peg into a round hole, as they say.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: Like it requires a lot of energy when you're in a relationship and it's not really supportive to you.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's you know, draining you, and it's requiring a lot of repair, and it's requiring a lot of you know suppression, and that that's exhausting.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, the menopause transition, our bodies have to allocate our energy to what's happening physically.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: We no longer have the energy reserves to be able to maintain relationships that are not solid, that are not healthy.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I think whether women realize that on a conscious level or not, part of what's happening is that we just can no longer forge ahead.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: We can do that when we're young, but when we get to this stage, it drains us, it exhausts us in a way that we just can't ignore it anymore.
26:07
unknown: Yeah.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: Well said.
26:11
SPEAKER_04: We want to talk about being with the same guy for 30 years.
26:15
SPEAKER_04: And I just want to say the foundation of our relationship was in self-help and transformation.
26:24
SPEAKER_04: I mean, we fell in love because of Head Hart and Who Ha, right?
26:27
SPEAKER_04: We were a practical match, we cared about each other, and we were attracted to each other.
26:31
SPEAKER_04: But we started doing personal growth when we were in our 20s together.
26:36
SPEAKER_04: And I'm saying it because it's why we can weather these storms.
26:40
SPEAKER_04: Because we said in sickness and health, and he's had sickness and health, and I've had sickness and health, and he's had changes, and I've had changes, and we've weathered it because of what we were grounded in.
26:49
SPEAKER_04: And that's the opportunity of the second time around after divorce.
26:52
SPEAKER_04: And because you got married when you were in your 20s or your 30s, and there was no self-help back then, or maybe you didn't have it, or you didn't know about it prioritizing it or whatever.
27:02
SPEAKER_04: And he didn't, and then you were raising kids and having work, and and now you're in your 40s and 50s, and it's like, oh, I really can try.
27:09
SPEAKER_04: And the men are divorced too, and they're seeking help too, and getting better too.
27:13
SPEAKER_04: So now there's this whole new great opportunity to actually start your next love relationship.
27:19
SPEAKER_04: This is my specialty in my work, from that perspective, you know, from the grounding of personal growth, which is what you need, the communication tools, the truth telling.
27:30
SPEAKER_04: That's what you need for the all the uh predictable fluctuations that will be happening for the rest of your life as you age, and he'll be having them too.
27:41
SPEAKER_04: So that's my plug for hope.
27:44
SPEAKER_07: Well said, and I think Juni would would second that in her current relationship.
27:49
SPEAKER_07: I would certainly third that in my marriage.
27:51
SPEAKER_07: Like, yeah, without these tools and the willingness, yeah.
28:44
SPEAKER_07: Karen, yeah, you just went through a big thing where you were speaking your truth and it went over so well because you're in a relationship where there's an investment in, yeah, problem solving and collaboration and well said.
28:57
SPEAKER_03: And an investment in the relationship to take it to that higher level and not just do what we've always done.
29:04
SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, like again, another plus one to to Lori, because when we have done the inner work and we have the tools, it it there's less drama.
29:13
SPEAKER_03: There's just less, it's the challenges are there, but it it's it's not these big tidal waves.
29:19
SPEAKER_03: It's it's more like choppy waters, and you know how to navigate it in a different way with love in the container with the tools, with the paddle.
29:27
SPEAKER_03: Because I didn't have a paddle in my 20-year marriage, and it was painful.
29:32
SPEAKER_07: And this idea of mutual support, right?
29:34
SPEAKER_07: When two people are contributing, everything is easier.
29:38
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
29:39
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
29:39
SPEAKER_06: Cause I'll speak for the singles and say that, you know, I've been single and and and some of the things that you guys were saying in terms of, well, first of all, I don't have the extra support.
29:48
SPEAKER_06: I mean, I do through friends, but I don't have a partner to to sort of lean on, right?
29:52
SPEAKER_06: And also I don't have the tolerance to for the dating world or the or the or just the nuance of dating.
29:59
SPEAKER_06: The focus is on me, the focus isn't on what I'm going through, and and and uh so I've just put dating on hold.
30:07
SPEAKER_06: I just chose me and I I said, you know, for now until I sort of come back into my body, I come back into a place of of regularity and and a place where I feel that I'm sexy and that I'm feeling good in my body, I think I would step into into dating again with but I I I took a break.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I love that you said that, Ozzy, because I think I think it's so important, especially in this midlife stage where we are dealing with so much physically, to really feel really good ourselves before jumping back into dating.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I for me I it took me over a year of just really taking great care of myself because I knew that until I did that, I wouldn't be healthy in a relationship.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, and I and so I I really applaud you doing that.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: I know how you feel, and I know, you know, how depleted we can be for a lot of reasons.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to be dating with that energy, you know.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: I I nobody wants to be dating unless they feel really great themselves.
31:12
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
31:14
SPEAKER_05: I'm waiting on that day for Ozzy.
31:17
SPEAKER_05: Her and I are going out on the prowl.
31:21
SPEAKER_02: Out on the prowl.
31:22
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: Love it.
31:25
SPEAKER_07: Okay, loves.
31:26
SPEAKER_07: Can we show our listeners on Dreadoverse Diary this fun game that we play at the end of Menipause Love Lounge?
31:31
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
31:31
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
31:32
SPEAKER_07: Okay, yes.
31:32
SPEAKER_07: Amazing.
31:33
SPEAKER_07: Does everybody have their paddle?
31:34
SPEAKER_07: If you I don't know.
31:36
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
31:36
SPEAKER_07: You can if you're not, if you're listening, you can't see our paddle.
31:39
SPEAKER_07: Right?
31:39
SPEAKER_07: So for this game, we are playing hot flash or red flag.
31:45
SPEAKER_07: So the idea is that I'm going to read a few scenarios that could totally happen mid-divorce, mid-menopause, mid-meltdown, and each of you are gonna vote.
31:55
SPEAKER_07: Is it just a hormonal moment or is it a full-blown relationship red flag?
32:00
SPEAKER_07: So are we gonna do green for hormones and red for red flag?
32:04
SPEAKER_07: Okay, because we have our two-sided paddles, right?
32:05
SPEAKER_07: And there's a green and there's a red.
32:07
SPEAKER_07: Okay, let's play.
32:09
SPEAKER_07: You ready?
32:10
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
32:10
SPEAKER_07: Alright, first one.
32:12
SPEAKER_07: He says you've been already moody lately.
32:19
SPEAKER_07: Is it is this a hot flash or a relationship red flag?
32:24
SPEAKER_07: I think it's this.
32:26
SPEAKER_04: Hot flash?
32:28
SPEAKER_04: We're letting him we're letting him make one comment.
32:31
SPEAKER_04: One comment.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
32:33
SPEAKER_07: Maybe it is maybe we have been moody lately and he's just making an observation.
32:37
SPEAKER_07: All right, so depends on the grease.
32:39
SPEAKER_04: Depends on the tone.
32:41
SPEAKER_07: Depends on the tone.
32:42
SPEAKER_03: That's moody.
32:43
SPEAKER_04: Is it compassionate or accusatory?
32:46
SPEAKER_03: But also, is she shoving emotions down where she's starting to get moody?
32:51
SPEAKER_03: And that might have nothing to do with hormones, just not expressing herself.
32:55
SPEAKER_03: So that's why I was kind of kind of doing both.
32:58
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
32:58
SPEAKER_03: Flip-flop.
32:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay, next one.
33:02
SPEAKER_07: You suddenly want to throw out everything you own and start over.
33:07
SPEAKER_07: Is this a midlife purge hot flash, or is this like an existential red flag that is green?
33:13
SPEAKER_06: I love a good purge.
33:14
unknown: Okay.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: That's when you know it's a red flag when you're about to cut the bangs.
33:23
SPEAKER_01: Baby bangs.
33:25
SPEAKER_02: I met bangs.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: Those moments a few weeks ago.
33:27
SPEAKER_02: What the heck?
33:29
SPEAKER_02: But you didn't do it.
33:30
SPEAKER_02: I didn't do it.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I'm post-menopausal.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Thank God.
33:35
SPEAKER_05: It's a good two-year mistake on that one.
33:39
SPEAKER_07: Okay, awesome.
33:40
SPEAKER_07: Ready for the next one?
33:41
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
33:42
SPEAKER_07: This is this one is in the zone, the solidly in the divorce zone, right?
33:47
SPEAKER_07: Regarding the ex.
33:49
SPEAKER_07: He texts.
33:51
SPEAKER_07: Hope you're doing okay.
33:53
SPEAKER_07: Right after posting a vacation pick with someone new.
33:58
SPEAKER_07: Oh.
34:00
SPEAKER_07: Oh.
34:01
SPEAKER_07: Red flag or hot?
34:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we posted the photo or he posted the photo.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: He posted it.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: He posted the photo.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: He posted it and then checked in with you.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: I wish this was a different finger for that.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: It's more like that.
34:18
SPEAKER_07: Or like we did an entire episode on this.
34:22
SPEAKER_07: It's just classic avoid an attachment style man move.
34:25
SPEAKER_07: Like, yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
34:27
SPEAKER_07: Validation, validation of your divorce.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
34:32
SPEAKER_07: Yes.
34:32
SPEAKER_07: Validate that divorce.
34:34
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
34:35
SPEAKER_07: This next one is really, really good.
34:37
SPEAKER_07: He blames your night sweats for why you don't touch him anymore.
34:40
SPEAKER_07: Hot flash excuse or red flag deflection.
34:44
SPEAKER_06: No blame, baby.
34:45
SPEAKER_06: No blame.
34:46
SPEAKER_06: Blame is a red flag.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:48
SPEAKER_06: It's a bummer.
34:50
SPEAKER_04: He's not smarter.
34:54
SPEAKER_04: Let's blame him for dignity, not very too much.
34:58
SPEAKER_04: Richard isn't him.
35:00
SPEAKER_04: Chad.
35:01
SPEAKER_04: I think Chad might be.
35:03
SPEAKER_04: This might be Chad's level of intelligence.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Could be, could be, could be.
35:08
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
35:09
SPEAKER_07: Okay, this is a good one.
35:11
SPEAKER_07: You feel ragey when he breathes too loud.
35:15
SPEAKER_07: Is it menopausal?
35:16
SPEAKER_02: Or is it Zonin and Lori?
35:19
SPEAKER_02: Zone in on Laurie.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: Going here.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: I'm going here.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: Relationship red flag?
35:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because what again, I I lived it.
35:27
SPEAKER_03: I lived it for so many years where I just kept pushing down my feelings and I just the resentment built and built, and then it was just like, ah, his breath, you know, whatever it was.
35:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, maybe it's this, but could be both.
35:39
SPEAKER_03: Lori's got a list.
35:41
SPEAKER_07: Oh my god, they have to be alive.
35:43
SPEAKER_04: They do.
35:43
SPEAKER_04: They do have to be alive.
35:44
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
35:45
SPEAKER_07: Last one.
35:46
SPEAKER_07: Last one.
35:47
SPEAKER_07: You wake up at 3 a.m.
35:48
SPEAKER_07: wanting both a divorce and a croissant.
35:54
SPEAKER_07: Normal perimenopause craving or red flag that you need your frickin' freedom.
35:59
SPEAKER_07: Follow the blue.
36:01
SPEAKER_05: When you say it that way.
36:02
SPEAKER_05: I know.
36:04
SPEAKER_05: Middle.
36:04
SPEAKER_05: Middle.
36:05
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, it is.
36:06
SPEAKER_07: It's a flip.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: It's a flipper.
36:07
SPEAKER_07: It's a flipper.
36:08
SPEAKER_07: It could be both.
36:09
SPEAKER_07: It is both.
36:10
SPEAKER_07: Perimenopause and uh a sign to have a consultation with your favorite family law attorney.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: But you know, we can't believe anything we think in the middle of the night.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: It's like all the darkest, most awful thoughts in the middle of the night.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:23
SPEAKER_06: You shouldn't believe anything.
36:24
SPEAKER_06: And you have to in your mind makes up anyway.
36:26
SPEAKER_04: You have to do the croissant test, which is have it in the morning and see if you feel better.
36:31
SPEAKER_04: And then you'll know if a croissant is actually good for you, and you'll also know if you still want a divorce.
36:36
SPEAKER_05: You heard it here later.
36:37
SPEAKER_05: Love croissant.
36:40
SPEAKER_05: Is it a chocolate croissant?
36:42
SPEAKER_05: I was just gonna ask it, Andrea.
36:44
SPEAKER_07: I might get up for that.
36:45
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
36:46
SPEAKER_07: I called producer Joy this morning and she was at Sam's Club, and she's like, I'm at Sam's Club, what do you need?
36:51
SPEAKER_07: I was like, a box of croissants.
36:53
SPEAKER_07: Croissant, we all right, darlings.
36:57
SPEAKER_07: Thank you so much for joining us here on Dear Divorce Diary.
36:59
SPEAKER_07: Ladies, if you want more of these amazing women you heard today, you can find Menopause Love Lounge anywhere you get podcasts.
37:08
SPEAKER_07: And so just search it up.
37:09
SPEAKER_07: Uh, we're on Instagram, we are on YouTube.
37:12
SPEAKER_07: When you watch it live, it's funnier.
37:15
SPEAKER_07: And ladies, thank you so much for being here today, for being my friends, for helping me just enjoy midlife in a completely different way.
37:22
SPEAKER_07: I love you all so much.
37:26
SPEAKER_05: Thank you for having us.