Latest / The Expert Method / 51 Books Later: Lessons on Creativity, Rejection, and Persistence
Transcript
- speaker-0: Nothing of what you're going to do with your book or your created product, nothing is an expense. It's all an investment. Someone's endorsement of you or lack thereof has very little to do with your trajectory. I'm not writing under pressure. I'm writing under pleasure. speaker-1: How does that shift of intention, writing for you versus writing for the audience? How does that show up in the work itself? speaker-0: There's so many people that just suffer from imposter syndrome or analysis paralysis and they get stuck. You really have to just dive out into that water and see how it feels. speaker-1: Today's guest is Aaron Ryan. Aaron has written and published over fifty-one books and built a creative career around writing, voice acting, and following his own intuition. In our conversation we discuss why he creates for himself instead of chasing approval, how he takes a book from an idea all the way through to publication, how he developed a writing style that feels like his own, and how he handles criticism, silence, and the pressure to stay relevant. If you get value from this conversation, be sure to subscribe and share it with a friend. And now please enjoy my conversation with Aaron Ryan. Aaron, thank you so much for being here. speaker-0: Thanks for having me, my pleasure. speaker-1: So, Aaron, you have published more than fifty books now, fifty-one, you just told me before we started recording, but you have described this journey, this process of authorship as lonely. It can be lonely sometimes, right? And you said that sometimes you release something that you care deeply about and hear nothing but crickets, right? It doesn't really land, it doesn't get the response that you were hoping for. And I think anybody who has done any kind of creative work, put themselves out there, can relate to that feeling. So before we get to the productivity and your process and how you've been able to achieve publishing fifty one books and understand what keeps that work moving for you, what keeps you creating when the response isn't there? speaker-0: That's such a great question. I I I have a huge drive. well, first of all, coffee. I mean that's number one. that's what keeps me going. But I have a huge drive just to create, regardless of the response. It it is deflating when you put something out there that you've cared and still care so much about. The storyline, the characters, the the stakes, they're all precious to you beyond measure. And so to see it maybe perhaps fall flat on its face is like you know, but have a vicious drive to just try again. You know, if at first you don't succeed, or if at second, or if at third, or fourth, or fifth you don't succeed, try try again. but I think the key for myself and everybody else is that you kind of end up resigning yourself to not create so much for your audience, you're just creating for you. And that keeps you alive and afloat and not so much dependent on the the accolades that may or may not come in. Really quickly, I was given a a fantastic mantra by a former voiceover agent, and she said, I'm a voice actor, and she said, someone's endorsement of you or lack thereof has very little to do with your trajectory. And that pertains exactly to what we're talking about. It's like that doesn't bother my my trajectory, their endorsement or lack thereof, I'm going forward regardless. speaker-1: Yeah. I love what you said. You're not creating for the audience, for that response, for the accolades or whatever that could come for it. You're creating for you because you just love the act of creating the art of creating. You're doing it for you. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah, you have to do for you. I mean, it's just it's so self self fulfilling, self pleasing, self evidence. It it's basically just something that you have to do because you are a creator. A creator creates. And so, yes, it is frustrating when a book that you again that you work so hard on maybe falls flat on its face out there, but you just you get a new idea, you try again, you test the market. I like to branch out and do different genres. As you can see behind me for those joining us visually, there's Fiction and business guides and poetry and kids' books and thrillers and literary criticism and historical fiction. And you know, Stephen King writes horror. Period. I've written horror but all these other genres, and perhaps you know, some might say that's less targeted than others, but it gives me a chance to branch out, to grow, to learn, to experiment. And I I love that. I love that freedom. speaker-1: How do you think that, you know, what may seem like a subtle shift of intention, right? Version A is writing for the response for the audience, version B is writing for you because you purely just love the art of doing it. How do you think that shows up in the the work itself? Like in the in the actual story in what you're writing and what you're creating? How does that shift of intention writing for you versus writing for the audience? How does that show up in the work itself? speaker-0: That's a great question. I think the the latest novel that I released is number fifty one. It's the The Darkness Within, and it is a a modern day reimagining of Jekyll and Hyde as told from the vantage point of a self published author and all the frustrations that go with the indie authoring industry. So he's you know, circling the drain and spiraling. And he's doing it because he must have a bestseller. He's desperate to stay relevant. He has to be number one. Those all three of those are driven. by sales figures and acclaim and titles and and that's if that's your motivation so be it. But you know, I love leaving legacy. My love language is giving. And so when I write a story, it gives me a chance to leave another breadcrumb behind me for my kids or family or somebody else to pick up on and that's delicious. Let's find some more. And it does come out in the writing because I'm not writing under pressure. I'm writing under pleasure. And so you can quote that bumper sticker with whoever you want. I just write for pleasure not under pressure. This next one that I'm working on right now is just I'm so jazzed and so excited about this next series. And I hope it succeeds, but I'm not my emotions aren't dependent upon it succeeding. speaker-1: Yeah. It's just kind of a welcome side effect or welcome, you know, thing that might happen, but that's not your purpose for doing it. Your reason for doing it sounds like it's coming from your genuine love of the craft. And you know, if there is a ulterior motive or an end outcome that you're that you're doing it for, it's again not for the reception from the crowd, not for the financial, the money, the fame, the the notoriety that might come from it. If there is any kind of ulterior motive, it's to leave a legacy. for your kids, your family, that pe they can, you know, get to know you through the stories that you have told. And I think what is so unique again about your intention is if you were writing with the ulterior motive of like, I want to write a bestseller, I want to make money, I wanna, you know, write what the audience wants to hear, what they want to read. I don't think if you if you wrote that way, I don't think that your kids, your family would be able to learn as much about you through reading a story that was written with that intention, as opposed to them reading the story that you wrote for the pure intention of it's the story that you wanted to tell and you know was was within you. Would you agree? speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. You you want to be authentically you. Oscar Wilde said, Be yourself. Everyone else has already taken. And I love I love just writing for for me and just the the sheer act of creation is power enough. One of the things that I'm writing that will never grace this background behind me and will never see the light of day in terms of the publishing world is my greatest work. And it is a daily journal that I kept that I've kept for my sons when my oldest was two months old. I started doing a daily journal for him, and I now have two sons, ten and seven. So for ten years now I've been doing almost every single day up granted I've missed some, you know, my capes around here somewhere, but you know, usually I miss a day or a day or two. You know, it's a journal for them, a legacy of who they are, where they've been, milestones, memories we've made, how important they are, you know, first steps, first teeth, you know, lost. Just all these accomplishments in their life and what we who we were together, I can't wait to give it to them when they're either eighteen or twenty-one. it's gonna be the greatest thing I've never published because it is a creation and a documentation of speaker-1: Who speaker-0: they are and how important they have been to me and how front of mind they are. And that's not for profit. That's not for exposure or accolades or awards. It's just surely to create. So there you go. speaker-1: Amazing. Yeah, and everything that you've our discussion so far reminds me of a a great quote from Naval Ravakant. he talks about this idea of, you know, art. Like what is the definition of art? And he defines art as anything that's done for its own sake. Right? You can find art in the doing in the the act of doing anything as long as you're doing it for the sake of doing it. speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely I couldn't put it any any better way, so I won't. speaker-1: Yeah. So the that idea is something that like at least for me in my journey, right? I've I've wanted to find the thing that I enjoy doing just for doing it. Right. Like for I don't care what kind of result, what kind of outcome it creates. And I think I found like one of those examples in these conversations that I'm having with people, like through this podcast. Like I just love doing this. I love talking to people. You know, there are definitely days where I get up and I have three podcasts on the on the calendar for the day and it's like, okay, this is gonna be a long day. But then at the moment I get in, I see Aaron Ryan join the studio, we start chatting for 30 seconds, it's like, let's go. Like I I genuinely just love doing this, exploring these ideas, trying to facilitate an interesting conversation and just pulling the wisdom and expertise out of somebody and just learning from that person. But I feel like I'm on this pursuit and I think I can relate to others in this idea of just finding the thing that we enjoy doing just for the sake of doing it. And then what would you say happens like when you find that? Like why why is that something that that maybe I'm seeking or we're all looking speaker-0: Well, the the quote rings true here. Find what you love to do and you'll never work a day in your life. I absolutely I I mean, I couldn't agree with that more. I'm a full time author and voice actor, and so my days are spent recording auditions and recording jobs for clients, and they're spent writing stories. So either way I get to tell stories, theirs or mine. And theirs go out on the radio, on the web, on the you know, TV and all that. And it's it's very what a humble privilege. To be chosen to be someone's storyteller and bring their story to life. But man, do I prefer the latter of just telling my own and sharing my own stories because creating something and holding it in your hands when you're done and looking at it and going, Wow, I made this. You know, it it's so rewarding to hold a finished project or a finished product in your hands and remember what it was like way back when in just the envisioning stage. That's a watershed moment for me when I was you know, seven years old. It was a light bulb moment, epiphany moment, where I was given that assignment in second grade by Mrs. Walker. Hi, Mrs. Walker, and she gave the assignment to, you know, the whole class. And I pub I I finished my book, had it bound in construction paper, crude stick figure drawings, college rule three whole punch paper, held it in my hands, turned it around and showed people look at this, you know, look what I made. And that seven year old joy just explodes in me every time I publish one of these books. We're gluttons for punishment because man, every single book flies out into the ether with our hopes and prayers and fears, and some of them don't do as well as others, so but we we we do it again. We just it's a sickness, really. It's a it's a compulsion on a sickness. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely scary putting yourself out there, right? It's it's a scary thing to do first to put yourself to throw yourself completely into something, right? To give you your everything. Because again, there's maybe part of you, and again, I'm probably just projecting this, have projecting myself into this idea that I'm putting out there of it's scary to put yourself fully into something because if you do and then it doesn't succeed, quote unquote. then it you don't really have an excuse, right, for why it didn't work. You couldn't say like, I, you know, I didn't give it my full effort. I didn't try a hundred percent. And I've noticed that theme can kind of appear throughout my life and like maybe there's that kind of subconscious, like giving myself a a scapegoat when it doesn't go well is just knowing that I could have done better, could have thrown myself into something. But anyways, I think that's the beautiful thing about finding something that you you could do and just be fulfilled and happy just through the art of doing it is that it's easier to throw yourself completely into that thing and really care about doing a good job. Like you're just gonna be more engaged with that thing. So you're just gonna naturally do a much better job, which is awesome. So going back to this idea that we opened with of you know, the drive of continuing to pursue or and and continue to go and create, even with when the external response and the, you know, success, quote unquote success might not be there, was that drive always there for you? speaker-0: Yes. and I'm and I mean that with every fiber of my being in the fire of a thousand suns. People have said of me, you could drop Aaron in a desert and he'd find a way to make money and make friends. And I don't know I I've never been in a desert, you know, by myself, but so we have to wait to see if that's gonna be a self fulfilling prophecy. But you know, you write a book, and it's really true in a series. You write a book and when you fall in love with the characters, you want to go back there. You fall in love with the narrative. You want to go back there and spend more time and continue to tell their stories and live in their world and they in yours. The same was true with me of music, man. When I made my first CD, I loved it, holding it in my hand. Here we go again. Mrs. Mocker, you know, look what I made. And I love just you know, I'm I'm always willing to try new things. that's clear in my history. So trying music, trying drama, trying poetry, trying voiceovers, trying authoring. And so I'm too stupid to think I can't do it well. I guess. So I continue to try like a dog with a bone, getting out there and just creating and trying something new and seeing what happens. It's a drive that I don't I can't claim any ownership or credit for because it's all part of my makeup. And I don't create my own makeup, you know? It's just through learned experiences and training and the and DNA and stuff. So I have my my parents to thank and whatever formative influences I was subjected to growing up to think. So there you go. speaker-1: Yeah. Amazing. And I think you you can give yourself credit in the sense that trying new things is, you know, a another one of those things that can be kind of scary and also difficult because anytime you try something new, you're gonna suck at it. So you gotta, you know, do it enough times to get decent enough at it to really be able to evaluate w how you feel about this certain thing. But I think that never ending trying of new things is essential on the path of that initial exploration to really find the thing that you can do. and be fulfilled in and of itself in the act of doing that thing. Yeah. So that's something that I guess if somebody's listening here and maybe they haven't quite found again, me included, haven't quite found that thing that I could just do and just for the sake of doing it be happy. How would you encourage them like on that path of trying to pursue and find that thing for themselves? speaker-0: I think you said it beautifully, and you just you have to be willing to try. There's so many people that just suffer from imposter syndrome or analysis paralysis and they get stuck going around round and round and round, ruminating on the possibilities, the the the fears behind it. And you don't know how great swimming is until you try swimming. You know, there's so many people though that will stand on the riverbank like, I don't know, I don't put my feet in the river, the toes, and it's so cold. You know, and like I just And they get frozen there in that analysis paralysis, or I'm not a swimmer, they're swimmers, but I'm not. They get frozen in the imposter syndrome. And you really have to just dive out into that water and see how it feels. Your first book isn't going to you know, knock people over in the aisles and it isn't going to fly off the shelves. But why not try? Why not put it out there? Create something, put it out there. You can say, look. I everybody go to this link. You know, I made this. And you take a personal pride. There's a vested interest in showing that to people because it's something you did as an accomplishment. And who's going to say, wow, man, sucky job if they're in your life? They're going to say, Good for you. And the masses may not respond in the same way, but you get better over time and you have to be willing to take that feedback and just refine yourself over time. speaker-1: Yep. And again, it'll be easier to do that when you're doing a thing that you enjoy doing, right? Like it'll be easier for you to take that feedback and see it as a positive thing and an opportunity to improve and get better at doing this thing that you genuinely enjoy doing. But yeah, that process of starting something new, sucking at it is a part of the process. speaker-0: It's risky, but we all risk. We put we put risk in sending our kids off to a babysitter. We risk when we invest in new markets that we don't, you know, we're unfamiliar with, or raising our our stocks to bonds, investment portfolio. We take risks when we go on a date. You know, it's like it's a risk, but we have to be willing to risk. That's how we get brave. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. And I think a big part, at least for me, from my experience that has held me back in the past is just the over emphasis on how much people are actually thinking about me. Right. Like nobody's actually thinking about me is something that I've come to learn and nobody actually cares, right? Nobody's gonna like I put my s put something out there. There's really nothing to be embarrassed about, or like just placing way too much emphasis on the idea of how much people are actually are thinking about me. Right, which kind of create speaker-0: Thinking about you right now. speaker-1: Yeah, I appreciate I appreciate Yeah, yeah, yeah. but the yeah, it's just like, you know, the fear of what other people are going to think can get in the way for me of putting myself out there, creating a thing, sharing it, and then you know, that gets in the way of the the creative process and and that whole cycle can can be a never ending loop. But for you, you've gone through this process of creating a book fifty one times. Writing, publishing, coming up with an idea, writing it, creating it, publishing it, putting it out into the world 51 times. So for somebody who, like myself, you know, has aspirations of writing a book, but never has gone through that process, what is your process that you've kind of refined 51 times? Obviously it'll be unique, like an artistic thing like creative writing is going to be unique to every individual. What do you think are some of those like core pillars of the process of going from idea to a published book? speaker-0: Yeah, that's a great question. And I want to answer just the previous thing. there's a certain narcissism in it, of course. That fear and worry of what people will think of you is narcissistic. But if you can lay your narcissism aside and just do it for the sheer act of creation, it it becomes easier. So each book is not necessarily new or novel. So for example, you know, if if if you're looking up here behind me, I've got six alien invasion novels. But the one directly over my head is all six of these in one. So I published these six, of course, but then I also published this seventh, which is all six and one. Same with the end. All three are unique here, but then this one is all three in one. So there's, you know, we add those totals together. But it is still a cre a creative act of layout and attractive cover and promotion and publishing and getting it out to the market. Each one takes takes effort. So What I do, whether it's new or whether it's a a new, you know, all in one version, I first have to ask myself, why am I doing this? Understand your why. That's so important. Find out why you're doing this. And so for me, I there's there's no one size fits all for a marketplace. They may like one, they may like all three of them separate, they may want one book that has all of them together. So that's why I offer that way. It's like why the iPhone comes in so many different sizes, colors, capacities, blah, blah, blah. Also, we talked earlier, I think, about the Oscar Wilde quote, be yourself, everyone else has already taken. You have to figure out how unique, what unique thing you are going to bring to the marketplace. Don't try to be the next J.R.R. Tolkien, Suzanne Collins, Tom Clancy, Michael Crichton, John Grisham, Isaac Asimov, S.A. James S. A. Corey. Be you. You're the US you that you can be, right? So figure out what what uniqueness you can bring to the marketplace. And decide two things if you want to go traditional publishing or self-publishing. Number one, I choose self-publishing every day of the week and twice on Sunday because of the numerous advantages over traditional publishing that there are. And I also, and the four you know, the other question to ask yourself is are you going to use AI? Because if you're going to use AI, you're going to have a lot of odds stacked against you. You're going to you're going to draw the ire of a lot of people in the the authoring sphere who don't Use AI and I I will use assistive AI like a manuscript report, maybe perhaps like a like a idea development, but I do not ever use generative AI in order to structure any part of my narrative or tell any part of my story. I will not renounce that God given right to a chip or or a CPU or a computer. So decide, you know, it's your future could hinge on that. And then, you know, you have to decide if you're going to write a book in first person or third person, multiple perspectives or one, present tense or past tense. It's all part of the each book is different approach. You know, one of the my main things I would say too to add on that is you have to really decide from the very get-go that you're going to invest in this. Nothing of what you're going to do with your book or your created product, music, poetry, drama, whatever you're going to put up there, art, nothing of that product. is an expense. It's all an investment. There's expense, which is man, if I have to, okay, whatever, fine. And then there's investment. No, I need to invest this into this product because this is my future and I believe in it. Totally different mindset. And one will take you further than the other and that's the investment mindset. speaker-1: Absolutely. And I apologize for asking such a big question. I was asking you to cover the whole journey of a of a book from idea to publish. Like that's that's a lot there, but I think you you laid it out as eloquently as one could. but there's a lot of different ideas that I would love to explore a little bit deeper. First, I mean, just to start. Where it all starts, right? Which is the idea, right? So a lot of the people listening are experts who have developed an expertise in a specific category, niche, whatever it is. They've they've built up experience that they could call themselves, they could help other people with the things, the knowledge of the things that they have learned. Obviously, mostly talking about the nonfiction capacity, but there's ways that you can deliver those lessons and principles through a fiction style book as well. But where it all starts is this idea, right? So also a very complicated question, but I would love to explore this idea of like where do the ideas come from, how do you know whether this idea is the one that you want to move forward with, package up into a book, into a product? Kind of what does that look like for you? Where do you feel like your ideas come from? And then how do you evaluate an idea to know whether or not this is the one that you want to move forward with? speaker-0: Yeah, well, case in point for dissonance, the alien invasion saga, my wife and I had watched I Am Legend the night before I started working on the book. We'd seen it before. Great movie, but I I I started to wonder as I was watching this movie, what if the precedent for a worldwide annihilation was not a vaccine gone wrong, resulting in rabies, but instead was an alien invasion. And that is the first germ, the first seed that took root, and that, you know, led to a six book saga. The other thing that I do though, and I think this is very different from a lot of people, and I'm I'm totally okay being an anomaly here. I like to design the cover first. That's the very first thing that I do because I'm very visual. This is not going to work for everyone. And of course the cover goes through iterations, you know, before it's actually published, changes and and so forth, but I like to design design a cover so I can have that somewhere look at it, and I draw a lot of inspiration from the allure of that cover in order to write an equally alluring story. That matches the intensity of that cover. So I do I do that. I get the idea, go, hmm, Alien Invasion? Okay, sounds good. And then I design a cover, and now, ooh, that cover, I like that cover. And then I'm there's two ways you can write. One is the the traditional ways you can write. One is called a planner or a plotter. And they dot all their I's, they cross all their Ts, they do index charts and flow cards. Sorry, index cards and flow charts and bullet lists. And then there's Panthers and pants fly by the seat of their pants. They're very organic style of writing, and that's I lean heavily to the pantsing side. It does not mean I go around pantsing people, that's different. But I have elements of both. I do like a little bit of you know, some bullet points of just kind of the general things that are gonna happen, but I do not map everything out. If you go to a wedding, you're gonna get a flat tire. That's just life. That's how that happens. So my characters are gonna go to a wedding, they're gonna get a flat tire, you know, because that's life. Everything isn't perfect and mapped out. And how you deal with your crisis reveals a lot about your character, right? So I will I'll structure it out just basically. I'll start writing, see where it goes. Command Z, my way out of that corner, you know, go here, control Z out my way out of that one, and then, you know, keep going until I Yeah, until I come up up with something where I just go, Holy cow, that's good. And it continues to grow and grow and grow and balloon into a great story. And by the time you're done, you look back and you go, Wow, that's a cool story. And then you have to line up beta readers or arc readers. Those are people that are gonna review your story, find plot holes, tell you about typos, gr grammatical and syntax errors and punctuation. You're gonna do an audiobook, you need to find audiobook listeners or ALC listeners. Get your editors lined up, get your or editor, get your graphic designers lined up, figure figure out your promotions, line those up for publishing date so that they're all in place to just tell the whole world about your book when it publishes. There's a lot more steps than that, but those are the basic ones. speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. And then with the idea itself, right? Like when that first idea comes to you, it sounds and I would imagine whether or not you know that this is the idea that you want to move forward with and turn into a book is gonna be pretty much purely or maybe it should be like a purely internal kind of connection, right? Like how are you called To create this story. To write this story. Right. It's it's there's not really much external evaluation of like, Hey, I have this idea for a book. Do you think this would be a good idea? Like maybe you can kind of have that like kind of validation early on, but it really has to be like an internal calling to create this. speaker-0: Well, I think there's a difference between a calling and a compulsion to write a story. So I was very compelled to write the dissonance saga. I was arguably very called to write the end saga and to write the You Are My Whole Earth, A Daddy's Love for His Sons, that's I love my boys. Wanted to write a book on that. And God is not Santa, a book about, you know, not treating God like Santa or a genie in a bottle. Those are the three things that that I was specifically called to write, and now I'm called to write this carbon. series over here. I know that within me. And the other ones are just compulsion. what this would be cool. You know, ooh, how about this? You know, and then go down that that endearing rabbit trail, finish it, come back to the main highway of life, and then see where you go, you know, from there. But I do define those at two as two very different directions and origin points, a calling or a compulsion. speaker-1: Hmm. another point that you brought up in that initial answer was that you would choose self publishing over traditional publishing every day and twice on Sunday. Why is the the self publishing route more favorable than the the traditional publishing route in your opinion? speaker-0: Among other advantages, self publishing, I I'm terribly impatient. I mean, everyone who knows me would say, yep, that's absolutely right. I'm terribly impatient. So with self publishing, you have much quicker time to market. Traditionally published, if I was traditionally published these 51 books, you'd maybe have 10 of them out on the in the marketplace. So I like being able to get quicker time to market. You can command higher royalties, you know, per book sale. It doesn't have to be split up to the agent, the publisher, the the you know, the Barnes and Nobles and all that stuff. I retain all rights to everything I've created. I retain all creative control. I can choose my own editors, my own marketers, my own beta team, my own A arc readers and ALC listeners. I can design my own covers, which I do now. There's just there's so many advantages over traditionally published authors. And You really have to have thick skin and I'm a little bit of a control freak. So as a self published author, I like my book the way it is. I have an editor that really brings out better syntax and phraseology and finds typos, but I don't know that I would work really well with an editor, they're like, No, garbage, go back and rewrite the first three chapters. I'd be like, Okay, all right. let's hold on a minute here. That would rub me totally the wrong way. So and that doesn't work for everybody. It doesn't work for me. speaker-1: I could see like the self publishing, the rise of self publishing to me demonstrates a trend that has shown up in a lot of different industries. But it's like the the more bottom up, kind of less gatekeepy kind of approach. Like the democratization, you know, is probably the popular buzzword to throw out there to authorship and the creation and publishing of books. and I think it's a amazing trend that's gonna lead to more and more, you know, better stories, better books, more Points of view, opinions, people coming to the like participate in this in this global narrative that we have, which is very exciting. and we had another Chandler Bolt on the podcast recently, who's the founder of self publishing dot com, who kind of sold me on that whole idea. and he's built a incredible platform over there. Another thing that you mentioned too is something that rhymes with other things that other guests on the podcast have talked about, but you need to find your own uniqueness, right? You need to be you, right? You've brought up that quote. be you everybody else is taken. So I think that question of how do you find your authenticity is probably a little too difficult to answer. So I think maybe if you could offer an ex as an example, you know, what do you think is authentic about Aaron Ryan? And then we can or like what is unique about you and your style? And then we could use that as an example to kind of help find our own. speaker-0: Yeah. Well, number one, I'm a Christian, so there's Christianity can be found in my novels. And you know, I like to say that dissonance is an overtly Christian sorry, a covertly Christian saga. The end is an overtly Christian saga. The other ones are not they're they're not overt or covert. They're just they're compulsionary novels. Except for the nonfiction ones ones I mentioned earlier. And the kids' books are are kind of covertly overtly Christian. But that's very true to who I am, and it's inevitable when you write a story that it should mirror values, ideals, tenets that are so precious in your own life, they're gonna come out in your characters' lives as well. That's just it's a byproduct of who you are. And so if a character is going to get saved and accept Jesus in one novel, that's because you're familiar with that and that's, you know, precious to you. But the other thing is I've got a very signature style and every you know, y authors, though the prominent authors usually do have that. And so I wanted that. I begin and end every chapter of my fictional stories with a similar sounding sentence. So for example, in Dissonance Volume One Reality, the very first things that you that you read is we were never gonna or I was never gonna make it. That was my reality. Very last sentence of that chapter, we were never going to make it, that was our reality. There's one in Dissonance Volume Zero We will never forget that day, the day they came. The last sentence, we will never forget this day, the day we came together. Right? And so they play off each other and they the library and stack Bookends, speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: hello, thank you. no, it's totally right. It's the they d they bookend each chapter in kind of an episodic type of way where they're all individual nuggets, part of the bigger story. But that's my own. I just decided to do that in one novel. I was like, hey, that's cool. And so now I do it in every single novel. because and here's a kicker. If I ever wrote a novel with AI, with generative AI, and I didn't have it edited, because usually it's su in some ways it's like baked and it's good to go, my readers would go, This is not Aaron Ryan. Because they know how I write my chapters. And whether it's first person past tense or present tense, or whether it's third person. Whether it's one perspective or multiple, I do that in every single chapter. So it's a signature hallmark of my writing, and that that makes me me. I'm not even sure if that answered your question, but I'm I'm sticking with it. speaker-1: Yeah, no, it's great. I think it's just like there's little subtleties that will show up in your writing style that ultimately are what make you unique and it's authentically you, right? And I think those things will come to the surface. It's not something that you can really predetermine, right, before you start writing. Like what is your authentic voice? What is going to be unique about you and your style? It's just something that's going to naturally kind of flow out of you. And again, it's going to be that compulsion, the thing that feels like you when you're doing it, right? For For me, I'm not sure what that is because I r haven't really quite embarked on that. But I guess if I reflect on, you know, this is episode 59 of this podcast. This is the 59th conversation that I've had. I think maybe a unique style to me is the kind of repeating what I heard back to the guest to try and just summarize and make sure that I have it right. Maybe that's like one element of a unique style to me here on this. But yeah, that's interesting. That the what makes you authentically you is gonna naturally come out. Again, probably only It's want to more obviously come out if you're pursuing the track again that we opened with of you're doing this for you, you're not doing it for other people. I think if you were doing it for other people, it's gonna kind of guard and and make it harder for again that authentic you to come out. But if you're doing it for you, it's easier to be to be you in in your writing and in your creation. speaker-0: Here's a great phrase on the coattails, if I just say so myself. A great phrase on the coattails of that you can't please everyone, nor should you try. You're gonna be running yourself ragged and you're gonna be so depressed and frustrated because hey, I got sixty-five people over here who approve. And you know, you got three over here, or it's just it doesn't work. And you shouldn't be chasing tails as you're writing your story. You should be writing with your head and your heart, regardless of who's who's gonna say what about your book. Again. That phrase someone's endorsement of you or lack thereof has very little to do with your trajectory. speaker-1: Yeah. And is that something that you understood just from the outset? Or is that something that you kinda had to learn over time? Like were there moments early on in your career where you did put something out and then it would be very like it would weigh on you? Like it didn't have the success that you thought it would and it would weigh on you and you had to, you know, mature with that reality. Like don't even take it into consideration. That's not why I'm doing this in the first place. speaker-0: No, I mean, as a voice voice actor, I learned that phrase and that ideal the hard way. I was really trying to kiss butt and climb the corporate ladder to the to the Illuminati at the top in a voiceover sphere so that I could be recognized and so they would choose me to speak and teach and be endorsed like all their other you know, their the harem of their other endorsees were. And it was really I just I got so frustrated after a while and what am I doing? Th this is This has no eternal weight whatsoever or value whatsoever. So I was seeking their endorsement. And I do that sometimes too with books and get a bad review. It's like, man, really? You know, you you're just giving my star on my book a one star review because my name's Aaron and so is your ex fiance who you hate. That's not fair. And so but you can't do that. They have to let the injustice just kind of slide away and slide off of you and keep writing. But I I did learn it learn it the hard way, that phrase. And I did learn about the value of just being self sufficient the hard way. I think you learn it with each product that you put out there. Yeah, it's case by case basis. speaker-1: For sure. And I think it just you look at this emotion, this reaction to this thing that you have no control over, getting in the way of you doing something that you love doing. And one day you probably just see that as like, I'm not gonna let that do that anymore. Like I'm not gonna let that get in the way of me doing something that I genuinely love doing. I'm gonna do this for me, for my own reasons, and whatever comes of it's gonna come of it. But yeah, I think it's like many things in life, one of those things that you can really only learn through experience and through doing it and just continuing to do so. One last thing that I'd love to finish up with, Aaron, thank you again so much for the time. You had talked about your, you know, you're a Christian. You're you had mentioned something else about, you know, the relationship with God earlier on in our conversation. And me personally, I am very early on in my relationship and building that relationship that I have with God. So For me, like if you have any advice to me, I guess, on like I don't know if that's even necessarily what I'm looking for, but like from your experience, what have you found are the activities, the things that you do that can bring you closer to God and help to build that relationship that you have with Him? speaker-0: Yeah. It's such a great question, man. I I just I've always felt a tether in my life to the Lord. I've always felt like, you know, it is impossible for my mind and my heart to conceive that God is not there. I mean, and to to subscribe to the notion of evolution without getting into the science and evolution and all that that debate. To think for one second I came from an ape and am not loved by a God who had an intention about creating me and everyone else. Is so far fetched, I just I can't even begin to subscribe to it. So I've always felt loved by the Lord and that I had purpose and destiny. That's the first thing is just that head and heart knowledge. They say people miss heaven by 13 inches, you know. You can't have just the knowledge, you got it, let it get into your heart. Right? But what I do is so many people are not to harangue them or to label them. But they're pew warmers and we go to church and we get fed and we go back into our week and we don't do anything with it. What I found really is helpful for me is just is serving. You have to get in and serve. Some of the loneliest people on like Thanksgiving, one of the greatest curalls for them would be to go and serve at a soup kitchen or a food bank or something like that on a day where you're like, I don't have any family and I'm so lonely and look, take your mind off of you and go put it on other people. That's what Jesus came to do is to serve. Not to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. Get involved. Get involved in your age appropriate group at your church. Get involved in areas where you could serve, even if you think you're maybe remotely, mildly talented in that area, like running slides for media up on the the screen in church. Give it a try. You know, see what see what you do. Again, we talked earlier about risk. Be willing to risk and risk new relationships and all that stuff. The other thing too, though, is that it's absolutely indispensable is you have to stay in the word. You have to get into the word every single day. The word of God is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword. Right below me, I've got three devotionals that I go through every day. And I pray and have that prayer time. Again, God is not Santa. That was so important about that. And find a mentor. Man, if you can find a mentor in your church or your ministry group that will take you under their wing. that will pray for you, that you can talk to about the serious stuff. There's so many people that are willing to be your brothers and sisters in Christ. You just you can't go wrong anymore. It's amazing. speaker-1: Yeah. And I think the the first thing that I'm not sure if this is what your idea of God is not Santa is about, but the first thing that has really struck me in my early building of this relationship is that, you know, God gave us free will because it's the greatest extension of his creativity, is giving us free will and giving us our own, you know, divine spark for us to discover and grow and through the service of others and through acts of love. But anyways, the the point is that. God is always there for us. The universe is always there for us. Whatever you want to call it, whatever label you want to put on it, but he's not going to step in or it's not going to intervene and step in without us, you know, kind of surrendering and asking for help. Right. Like we have free will. We have to call on and ask for help in certain situations. So it's just that intentional making of time for that, you know, talking with God, building that relationship with God and asking for help. Right. And that's just The simplest little thing, like in the last couple of months, like taking time to to pray, which I had never done before in my life, feels very weird at first, but then something just starts happening. Like I don't know. I I can't really explain it, but it's it's pretty cool. and I'm excited to have started and embarked on this journey. But I appreciate you sharing that. Aaron, I have one final question. Yeah. I have one final question for you. It's a recurring question I ask every guest, but before we get to that, how can people find you? speaker-0: so you can go to two different places. There's a bunch of different places, but I'm author Aaron Ryan across all social media. You can go to authorarinrion.com, which is my main website, and you'll find all the interwebs and links there. Or you can go to authorarenrian group.com. It'll forward you to my my private and exclusive Facebook group. So you'll find tips and encouraging videos for creators there. You'll find discount codes, giveaways, news on my books that have been adapted for the screen and are being pitched, upcoming releases, you know, blah blah blah. So authorarinrion.com or authorarenrian group dot com. And somehow you'll find me in one of those one of those places. speaker-1: Love it. We'll have everything linked below in the description and show notes wherever you're listening to this podcast, so go check that out. Aaron, my final question for you, as I mentioned, is a recurring question I ask every guest. But Aaron, if you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for ten seconds, what would it say and why? speaker-0: Wow. I think it would be just very simple Christian, period. Husband, period. Daddy, period. Author, period, creator, period. And the one that would be a sentence maybe would just be love to laugh. Laughter is the best medicine, period, end of story. And I think we could use a lot more of that in this world today. speaker-1: Absolutely. Feels like everything is taken just a little bit too seriously, for sure. So Aaron, yeah, thank you so much for the time. speaker-0: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. God bless ya. speaker-1: Thank you for listening. The main thing I'm taking away from my conversation with Aaron is the fact that I need to be careful about what I optimize my work around. Right. My instinct is to chase the result, right? Did people watch? Did they respond? Did it sell? Did it lead somewhere? And that feedback's important, right? It matters. But if every decision that I make starts with what will get the best reaction, it becomes really easy to drift away from the work that I actually enjoy doing and really just drift away from why I started in the first place. There's a strange tension here. The more I chase the response, the more guarded and calculated the work can become, and the more that it can start to feel like a chore. But when I focus on doing something because I genuinely enjoy doing it, more of my own voice is gonna just naturally come through. And that often gives people something more real to respond to. So paradoxically, the the result will end up being better. And I felt that with this podcast. There are days when recording several conversation feels like a lot. I don't look forward to it. There's almost like a ten minutes before I hope they email me and want to cancel. And then the j guest joins, we start talking, and I remember that I genuinely enjoy this work itself and try and just let that energy persist throughout the conversation. I still want the work to perform, right? I want this podcast to grow. I still want to improve it, get better at it, but the result cannot be the only reason that I do it. Finding something that you enjoy for its own sake is rare. Finding a way to support your life through that work is an even bigger win. Not that I have any delusions of grandeur that this podcast will be something that I can live off of. But my responsibility is to protect the part that made me want to do this in the first place. And that also might be the part that makes other people care about it too. If you want to get connected with Aaron Ryan, you can find his website, books, and social links in the description of this episode. And if you're an author, coach, or consultant and you want to make it easier for your clients to get results, download the free program execution system toolkit in the description. It'll show you how to install what I call execution infrastructure. And make it easier for your clients to do the work, engage with your ideas, and get results. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you all in the next one.