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S1E10: On Friendship and the Grief of Drifting · The Third Thing

• 0:00
  Danyelle: Welcome to the Third Thing, a podcast about friendship in all its fullness.
• 0:04
  Danyelle: The conflict worth repairing, the evolution worth honoring, and sometimes the letting go.
• 0:10
  Michelle: Think of it as a kitchen table conversation with honesty, laughter, validation, and plenty of tea.
• 0:17
  Danyelle: I'm Danielle, a therapist, healer, and voodoo practitioner who's been thinking about the way we love each other for most of my life.
• 0:25
  Michelle: And I'm Michelle, a life coach, facilitator, and a spaceholder at my core.
• 0:30
  Michelle: I've spent a lifetime helping people communicate better and more honestly.
• 0:34
  Danyelle: We've been best friends for 26 years and we've got the receipts.
• 0:39
  Danyelle: We've done the work and we want to share what we've learned.
• 0:41
  Danyelle: The tools, the hard parts, the things nobody taught us.
• 0:45
  Michelle: There are a lot of people figuring out their friendships without a roadmap.
• 0:48
  Michelle: So we're pulling up a chair.
• 0:51
  Michelle: Hey girl.
• 0:52
  Michelle: Hello.
• 0:54
  Michelle: Welcome.
• 0:56
  Michelle: This is an interesting topic today because even though we have had moments of growing apart or drifting, we can definitely speak to it from experience.
• 1:09
  Michelle: But we've never fully drifted.
• 1:11
  Michelle: We've never fully drifted.
• 1:13
  Michelle: So we get to sort of bring in some different experiences today and talk about how it felt to flirt with drifting.
• 1:22
  Danyelle: Even in those moments of us being apart, there's still grief.
• 1:28
  Danyelle: True.
• 1:29
  Danyelle: There's still I miss you, right?
• 1:30
  Danyelle: And I am thinking back to our two episodes ago.
• 1:39
  Michelle: Life stages.
• 1:40
  Michelle: Yes.
• 1:41
  Michelle: Thinking back to life stages.
• 1:42
  Danyelle: And I'm thinking back to our when life stages diverge episode, and thinking, and you know, when I named, like I felt mad at you for not being able to meet me where I needed you to be or where I wanted you to be.
• 1:56
  Danyelle: And so there was grief in that.
• 1:58
  Danyelle: I left for LA feeling like this sucks.
• 2:02
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 2:03
  Michelle: What's interesting about drifting is sometimes there's no formal happening.
• 2:11
  Michelle: There's not always a fight or a moment or a divergence.
• 2:16
  Michelle: It can sometimes be a slow transition and it can almost sneak up on you.
• 2:22
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 2:23
  Danyelle: And that's really what we want to focus on in this episode.
• 2:26
  Danyelle: The drifting that occurs when nothing has happened, when there's no hard feelings, when it just goes silence.
• 2:38
  Danyelle: And one day you look up and you're like, oh, that person isn't in my orbit anymore, or I have no idea what's going on in their life anymore.
• 2:48
  Danyelle: That's a loss.
• 2:49
  Danyelle: That is grief.
• 2:50
  Danyelle: And it's not the type of grief where the physical body has left this realm.
• 2:57
  Danyelle: It's the knowing that this person is out there having their life and we're no longer connected in that way.
• 3:07
  Michelle: I don't want to go out on a limb and say that it's harder.
• 3:11
  Michelle: It is a different kind of grief where you might see them on social media and or hear stories because they're still spending time with mutual friends, and you are now just living life without that person in it anymore.
• 3:28
  Danyelle: And we've talked this season about how romantic love does really get that pomp and circumstance around endings.
• 3:36
  Danyelle: And there's not that in platonic love.
• 3:45
  Danyelle: You know, like you said, sometimes it's it's intentional, sometimes it's life happenings.
• 3:50
  Danyelle: Oh, I'll call them tomorrow.
• 3:53
  Danyelle: Oh, I gotta, you know, text them back.
• 3:55
  Danyelle: Right.
• 3:56
  Danyelle: And things shift.
• 3:59
  Michelle: And again, you're gonna get sick of me continuing to bring this context in, but I think all of us are still unpacking what the introduction of a global pandemic meant for the way we live our lives, especially when it comes to in-person relationships.
• 4:16
  Michelle: And if you aren't a person who makes a ton of phone calls or FaceTimes or has a lot of other physical happenings in your life, then you might have found some relationships subject to this drift.
• 4:31
  Michelle: So you have that structural drift that we talked about in our life stages, episode, geography, life changes, and the disappearance of that shared context.
• 4:43
  Danyelle: And then there's the relational drift when you've just grown apart, things are different.
• 4:49
  Danyelle: Maybe interests change.
• 4:51
  Danyelle: I'm not the same person I was 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago.
• 4:56
  Danyelle: And so some of that drifting is just what I enjoyed then, I don't enjoy now.
• 5:02
  Danyelle: And it's no longer a fit.
• 5:03
  Michelle: Oh my God, could you imagine if one of us was still like going to the club on the weekend?
• 5:10
  Michelle: It's all I can muster to have a weekend of partying like once a year for pride.
• 5:16
  Michelle: If that was a regular occurrence, I would be like, I love you so deeply, and I truly cannot.
• 5:23
  Michelle: My body will not allow me to participate.
• 5:26
  Danyelle: I mean, I don't like going out of the house.
• 5:29
  Danyelle: No, I had to clarify that in therapy a couple sessions ago.
• 5:35
  Danyelle: Like, no, not agoraphobic.
• 5:37
  Danyelle: And staying inside is my happy place.
• 5:40
  Michelle: And I understand.
• 5:42
  Michelle: I overstand.
• 5:43
  Danyelle: Yes, yeah.
• 5:44
  Danyelle: But to your point, no.
• 5:46
  Danyelle: Right.
• 5:47
  Danyelle: You know, yes, we would, we would drift because if that was the only way I had access, or the if that was the only way I could see you, the only way I could access the love, the care, the attention.
• 6:03
  Michelle: And then there's the slow quieting.
• 6:06
  Michelle: Maybe you are still doing texts here and there, and oh, on your birthday you say something.
• 6:12
  Michelle: But I think sometimes the slow quieting, it usually does have a reason.
• 6:19
  Michelle: And it can be back to the attachment style of I'm not getting what I need, or I'm avoiding this person for XYZ reason.
• 6:28
  Michelle: We've all also been in those moments where you're like, I just don't feel good with this person anymore.
• 6:35
  Michelle: And it feels like a chore to invest in the relationship.
• 6:39
  Michelle: But I think the hardest part is that there's no villain, nobody did anything wrong.
• 6:45
  Michelle: And then it goes back to what you just said.
• 6:47
  Michelle: Then there's not a path or a very clear pomp and circumstance around that breakup because it's such a slow burn.
• 6:56
  Danyelle: Yeah, well, it's the idea of why am I even grieving?
• 7:02
  Danyelle: Why am I sad?
• 7:03
  Danyelle: I think it can feel easier to be like, you did this to me, so I'm mad and I'm walking away, versus quiet.
• 7:14
  Danyelle: And so I think because of that, there isn't always the room to grieve that loss.
• 7:19
  Michelle: Will you tell me a story about a friendship or a relationship that you've drifted from that didn't have that breakup dramatic moment?
• 7:31
  Danyelle: Yeah, it's actually someone we used to work with at PF Chanks.
• 7:34
  Michelle: Oh my goodness.
• 7:36
  Michelle: Yes.
• 7:37
  Michelle: And like honestly, adore her.
• 7:40
  Michelle: Yes.
• 7:40
  Michelle: Like deep, deep, deep connection.
• 7:44
  Michelle: You had a real connection with her.
• 7:46
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 7:46
  Danyelle: I I'm a I'm a hard shell to crack.
• 7:49
  Danyelle: And the first time we met, she shared something with me that we have in common.
• 7:53
  Danyelle: And I was just like, eh.
• 7:56
  Danyelle: But she kept trying, which shout out to all the people who keep trying with me.
• 8:01
  Danyelle: And we have had periods of time where we were really close, where we were not moving, life stages, you know, diverging.
• 8:10
  Danyelle: But we always did make time to text and call and was just check in.
• 8:15
  Danyelle: How's this going?
• 8:17
  Danyelle: How's that going?
• 8:18
  Danyelle: There were moments where we lived closer and not.
• 8:22
  Danyelle: So it made it easier.
• 8:23
  Danyelle: And then it was like, oh, her birthday was last week.
• 8:28
  Danyelle: And then it's like, do I text?
• 8:30
  Danyelle: And then the internal conversation around, oh, did she text me on my birthday?
• 8:35
  Danyelle: And then the scroll back and the text messages.
• 8:38
  Danyelle: And then you see that date, right?
• 8:40
  Danyelle: And you're like, oh, it's been like three months, or it's been six months, or it's been a year.
• 8:47
  Danyelle: And having to pause in that and say, I feel sad.
• 8:53
  Danyelle: This I want to reach out, you know, and then I feel like there's that stuckness, and you know, quintessential me, I got distracted.
• 9:01
  Danyelle: And then I'm like, what was I doing?
• 9:03
  Danyelle: And then another three months goes by.
• 9:06
  Danyelle: And you know, I I don't I can't recall the last time we've had like an actual conversation.
• 9:13
  Danyelle: Definitely not in the last couple of years.
• 9:16
  Michelle: I read something on Instagram about how the challenge with old friends or friends that you're not keeping up with as often is that every time you meet, you spend the bulk of that time catching up.
• 9:31
  Michelle: And so it's it's bringing them up to speed and you're not creating new memories together.
• 9:38
  Danyelle: It's the parallel living, right?
• 9:40
  Danyelle: It's we're doing life separately, right?
• 9:43
  Danyelle: And there's really not the time, whether because of geography, et cetera, to build those new memories.
• 9:50
  Danyelle: And I think, you know, I I said, like, of course, I miss this person a lot.
• 9:56
  Danyelle: And sometimes there is the I miss the moments we had, right?
• 10:02
  Danyelle: I miss the ease of being with them, I miss the fun.
• 10:08
  Danyelle: And that is in the past.
• 10:11
  Danyelle: It's not here in the present.
• 10:13
  Danyelle: Right.
• 10:14
  Danyelle: What about you?
• 10:14
  Danyelle: Do you have a story?
• 10:17
  Michelle: I do have a story.
• 10:18
  Michelle: And what's interesting is I'm embarrassed to say that I wasn't ready to categorize this relationship as having drifted until we started approaching this topic.
• 10:32
  Michelle: And this person popped up into my mind.
• 10:35
  Michelle: We worked together for a couple years and lived one block away.
• 10:40
  Michelle: So we were really sharing physical space together.
• 10:44
  Michelle: And even after moving, she was still a bridesmaid at my wedding, which was shared with you and my sisters, and the person who introduced me to my wife and my two friends I've been friends with since I was one and five years old, and then her.
• 10:58
  Michelle: And so she was really a core part of my life.
• 11:02
  Michelle: And I recently looked at our text art and I'm like, oh my God, it's been a year and a half, maybe, or two years.
• 11:10
  Michelle: There are texts from me that have gone largely unanswered in that time period.
• 11:16
  Michelle: And I'm like, oh no.
• 11:17
  Michelle: And so that's an interesting one where I actually suspect that there is some hardship there, some bad blood, but I actually don't know.
• 11:28
  Michelle: And so part of the drift is not that I don't know.
• 11:32
  Michelle: I can infer that the distance or the lack of connection has led to this place where she's not responding to me.
• 11:41
  Michelle: But it's it's a new grief, I think.
• 11:44
  Michelle: And it it sort of like sneaks up on you, or there are moments where a funny thing will happen.
• 11:49
  Michelle: And I'd love to call and reach out.
• 11:52
  Michelle: I don't know if it has its place here, but I did write a letter, and one of the things that we want to offer to you as a download, if you go to our Instagram, you'll find the workbook there.
• 12:05
  Michelle: But I ended up writing a letter to her as a part of my grief process, and it's one that I'll never send.
• 12:14
  Michelle: And I mean, there's this moment I'm having of like interesting if she were to listen to this, and I don't know what that would mean, but we could process it together.
• 12:22
  Michelle: But I want to share it because I know that this is common, that there can be this drifting, and you can have these fond memories, but also have resentment around it.
• 12:33
  Michelle: So I'm gonna share it.
• 12:35
  Michelle: It feels strange to write this letter.
• 12:36
  Michelle: By not acknowledging our distance out loud or making a real effort to repair, I had hoped for a long time that meant this wasn't real.
• 12:44
  Michelle: We were both busy, had drifted apart, or just hadn't made the time for the kind of phone call or visit that we needed to get back on track.
• 12:52
  Michelle: But I've texted you and you haven't answered multiple times.
• 12:56
  Michelle: You haven't reached out, I haven't tried to call or persisted, and I know what that means, even if I haven't before admitted it.
• 13:03
  Michelle: It's been a year and a half.
• 13:05
  Michelle: We were friends for more than a decade.
• 13:07
  Michelle: We worked at a cafe together and you lived on the street.
• 13:10
  Michelle: Weirdly, it felt like we were roommates.
• 13:12
  Michelle: We talked about our relationships, we sat on the stoop together while you smoked, you were my photography muse.
• 13:18
  Michelle: I chopped your hair with kitchen scissors when you couldn't take it anymore.
• 13:22
  Michelle: And even though I was only a couple of years older than you, I felt like you look up to me.
• 13:26
  Michelle: And I really liked how that felt.
• 13:28
  Michelle: Like I could do no wrong and I got to be your protector.
• 13:31
  Michelle: We danced to Beyonce and we laughed constantly.
• 13:34
  Michelle: You moved to LA and I still made an effort to visit, surprising you on your birthday.
• 13:39
  Michelle: You were a bridesmaid at my wedding.
• 13:41
  Michelle: Even though I was pregnant, I still rallied for your bachelorette in Palm Springs and made sure I didn't leave your side on the dance floor of your COVID wedding.
• 13:49
  Michelle: But slowly we did drift.
• 13:50
  Michelle: I had a tiny human.
• 13:52
  Michelle: COVID made traveling hard, and said tiny human made it not a priority.
• 13:57
  Michelle: You were going through things I still don't fully know about, from mold in your apartment to drifting from your partner to a new kind of relationship.
• 14:05
  Michelle: We both had bouts of depression, and all of a sudden there were forgotten birthdays and no more friendship check-ins.
• 14:12
  Michelle: A missed chance to meet up while I was in LA for work, and now you don't respond to my texts.
• 14:17
  Michelle: I wish you had reached out more as I was becoming a new mom in a weird, isolating pandemic world.
• 14:23
  Michelle: I wish you were able to follow me and be a part of my kiddo's life.
• 14:27
  Michelle: I wish you could have shined your love on that experience and given me grace for not being the same kind of friend that I was before I became a mother.
• 14:35
  Michelle: But I also wish that I had kept in touch with you better and made the time.
• 14:39
  Michelle: You were holed up in a one-room hotel for a year and alone, and I didn't make you a priority.
• 14:44
  Michelle: Your experience wasn't less important than mine.
• 14:48
  Michelle: I want you to know that.
• 15:34
  Michelle: A picnic on a rooftop with the most beautiful hot pink peonies.
• 15:37
  Michelle: It was always girl dinner with you before girl dinner had a name.
• 15:41
  Michelle: You painted your life for me as a writer in New York or Paris, sitting in a bustling cafe, reading a book and doodling in a mole skin journal.
• 15:50
  Michelle: You had the quiet confidence of knowing you're special and have something to say that the world needed to hear.
• 15:56
  Michelle: I feel mad that you didn't think our friendship was worth a fight.
• 16:00
  Michelle: Even though we drifted, I never let go of you and I feel like you gave up on me.
• 16:04
  Michelle: I'm hurt.
• 16:05
  Michelle: It makes me not want to fight more for you because I never meant to hurt you, and I'm tired of always checking in to see what's wrong.
• 16:12
  Michelle: Are you okay?
• 16:14
  Michelle: Are you mad?
• 16:15
  Michelle: Is this distance normal?
• 16:16
  Michelle: Are you ignoring me?
• 16:18
  Michelle: Or is it not even about me?
• 16:20
  Michelle: I wish I could trust the people I love to tell me when they need me or when they're hurt.
• 16:24
  Michelle: I can listen, I can acknowledge, I can do better.
• 16:29
  Michelle: You will always own a piece of my life.
• 16:31
  Michelle: We were girls in our 20s, bar hopping and going to house parties, slinging caffeine and living paycheck to paycheck.
• 16:38
  Michelle: We had no idea where we were headed, and we bounced around our neighborhood like the future was all ahead of us.
• 16:43
  Michelle: I'm so glad we had that time.
• 16:46
  Michelle: This reads like an obituary, and maybe it is.
• 16:49
  Michelle: I miss you.
• 16:50
  Michelle: I'm sorry, and I'm thankful that I had you as a friend.
• 16:54
  Michelle: It's such a testament to the fluidity of relationships that a song playing in my head as I write this is Sam Cook, I wish you love.
• 17:02
  Michelle: But actually, it's the Rachel Yamagata version because it's more ladylike.
• 17:06
  Michelle: I wish you shelter from the storm, a cozy fire to keep you warm.
• 17:11
  Michelle: But most of all, when snowflakes fall, I wish you love.
• 17:18
  Danyelle: No, I'm over here in tears as I was when you sent it to me.
• 17:26
  Danyelle: One, because you are such a beautiful writer.
• 17:29
  Danyelle: Um, I'm sorry.
• 17:30
  Michelle: No, it makes me feel so good.
• 17:33
  Danyelle: And two, um Dam.
• 17:38
  Danyelle: You know, I uh the first time I read this letter, I was hearing it in my head to so many people in my life.
• 17:52
  Danyelle: The way that you, you know, the storytell, the way that you write, it's just so beautiful.
• 17:58
  Danyelle: But you've really that letter gets to such the core of drifting, of not being able to have closure, to not have that one more moment.
• 18:14
  Danyelle: And again, right, like nothing happened, right?
• 18:18
  Michelle: It also makes me really glad that that's not our story.
• 18:24
  Michelle: Yes that as we went through all of those transitions, moving to another country, partners, queerness, financial changes that we keep coming back to each other.
• 18:39
  Michelle: And I don't take that for granted.
• 18:42
  Danyelle: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 18:44
  Danyelle: And maybe that is a part of my you know emotions in this moment of that it's not me receiving this letter.
• 18:50
  Michelle: Yeah, you're like too much.
• 18:53
  Michelle: No, thank you.
• 18:54
  Michelle: You keep that to yourself.
• 18:56
  Michelle: Absolutely.
• 18:57
  Michelle: Bye.
• 18:59
  Michelle: So I know part of this exercise of writing the letter was an invitation to explore grief around loss.
• 19:07
  Michelle: And I know that's a tool that you and I discussed, but I think you offered it to me.
• 19:12
  Michelle: And so, what would be the purpose that you would offer a client or anyone to write a letter like this?
• 19:19
  Michelle: And when would you send it versus not?
• 19:22
  Danyelle: I mean, as a woo-woo and a witch and spiritual being.
• 19:28
  Danyelle: Yes, you know, every time.
• 19:31
  Danyelle: Because we've talked about the fact that that energy lives in your body.
• 19:34
  Danyelle: Right.
• 19:34
  Danyelle: And you name it in the letter.
• 19:36
  Danyelle: I wasn't even ready or acknowledging that this is grief because it didn't need to be real.
• 19:43
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 19:43
  Danyelle: We're still friends, it'll come back around.
• 19:47
  Danyelle: Things will shift because they always do.
• 19:50
  Danyelle: And eventually internally, you have to make that decision around like it's not, or it's now my time to decide something different or to make moves around it.
• 20:03
  Danyelle: I would recommend writing the letter to everybody at any point when your body feels ready.
• 20:11
  Danyelle: What you're doing is moving that out of your body onto paper, and then you're not holding it in this kind of endless limbo, the in-between.
• 20:24
  Danyelle: And I think in terms of sending or not, what does your intuition say?
• 20:31
  Danyelle: What does your gut say?
• 20:34
  Danyelle: Sometimes it's just enough to write it and then burn it, rip it up, let it sink back into the energetic realm.
• 20:44
  Danyelle: When you are at the decision point of do I send or not, I think it's important to consider what the outcome you're looking for is.
• 20:56
  Danyelle: And we live in a world where we really want to feel right.
• 21:01
  Danyelle: We want to feel if we were wronged, acknowledged in that, if we fought harder, we want to say that, we want the person to hear that.
• 21:11
  Danyelle: And so often that's more about us than the other person.
• 21:14
  Michelle: Absolutely.
• 21:15
  Danyelle: And there's the work that can be done internally to support that letting go.
• 21:22
  Michelle: And I think what came up for me when you were talking about your drifting story is that maybe there isn't a future, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.
• 21:33
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 21:33
  Michelle: That I can look and hold that relationship really fondly and keep it in the past.
• 21:39
  Michelle: And maybe there is because there wasn't some huge dramatic blowout, maybe there is still space for a reach out in a year or two and and a reconnect.
• 21:49
  Michelle: And I'd love to know what's going on in your life, but when I do travel to that area now, like I really make an effort to visit the people where we're building.
• 22:00
  Michelle: Building new memories together and I see them in the future in my life.
• 22:04
  Danyelle: Same.
• 22:05
  Michelle: Yeah.
• 22:06
  Danyelle: Mm-hmm.
• 22:06
  Danyelle: Absolutely.
• 22:07
  Danyelle: It's not the person I call when I'm making a trip.
• 22:13
  Danyelle: Exactly.
• 22:14
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 22:15
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 22:18
  Danyelle: So, you know, we want to take this, you know, to our listeners and name that this is so common.
• 22:25
  Danyelle: This is something that's happening, as we said, more often than is probably talked about.
• 22:30
  Danyelle: Social networks, specifically friendship networks, really shrink after the age of 25.
• 22:36
  Danyelle: And we don't have that closeness.
• 22:41
  Danyelle: We've talked about it.
• 22:42
  Danyelle: How you build friendship.
• 22:43
  Danyelle: You're at school, you're at work, you're hanging out, you're in your same community.
• 22:49
  Danyelle: There's a lot less tying us to things.
• 22:55
  Danyelle: We're untethered.
• 22:57
  Danyelle: 25 plus, we start to get more and more tethered, whether it's stepping more fully into a career, into a relationship, moving, exploring.
• 23:08
  Danyelle: There's just so many things that start to happen in your late 20s and early 30s where it's more significant to be like, it's a Tuesday, let's go hang out, or let's go on this trip.
• 23:22
  Danyelle: It becomes harder to do it, maybe even higher risk to do it.
• 23:25
  Michelle: I feel like there's an opening here to I'm borrowing this from AA, but I'm sure it's not the only place where this is talked about, but it's about exploring your part.
• 23:36
  Michelle: And yes, the letter that I wrote, there were moments of blame and wishing that things had been different.
• 23:44
  Michelle: But it did also force me to be like, yeah, I was going through some big life changes, but so was she.
• 23:51
  Michelle: And maybe I wasn't there in the way that I could have.
• 23:54
  Michelle: And I think if you're a person who's experiencing this drifting period or in multitudes, there's an opening to look at your part in that.
• 24:05
  Michelle: And if it's a thing that you desire to close the loop on or is serving a purpose for you in a shedding and a rebirthing in the kinds of relationships that you desire, there's a reason that those folks are not in your life anymore.
• 24:20
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 24:20
  Danyelle: And I it then becomes a beautiful way to take inventory and see how you want to be showing up in relation, how accountability is so vital to the human experience, that self-awareness to say, yep, I could have done that better.
• 24:42
  Danyelle: Another beloved that has drifted in years uses the phrase, that wasn't my best work.
• 24:48
  Danyelle: And I so deeply love that so much.
• 24:51
  Danyelle: Yes.
• 24:53
  Danyelle: I'm gonna borrow that.
• 24:54
  Danyelle: Yes, it's a good one.
• 24:55
  Danyelle: It's definitely a good one.
• 24:57
  Danyelle: I'm like, yes.
• 25:02
  Danyelle: Accountability, I think, also allows us to understand that it's not a personal failure.
• 25:06
  Danyelle: Sure.
• 25:07
  Danyelle: That it's not that we could have done something better or there's something wrong with us.
• 25:13
  Michelle: Yes.
• 25:14
  Danyelle: That, hey, this is co-created.
• 25:17
  Danyelle: Yes.
• 25:18
  Danyelle: Hey, this is life, this is external.
• 25:21
  Danyelle: And it doesn't mean I'm a bad friend or a bad person or that I didn't give this person what they needed.
• 25:28
  Danyelle: And so I lost them.
• 25:30
  Danyelle: I couldn't keep them in my orbit in my life.
• 25:34
  Michelle: Yes.
• 25:35
  Michelle: That to me is the work of either utilizing compassionate communication or something like a letter writing or some cutting ceremony cut and clean is again what you said about removing it from the body, because I know for me, what I hold by not allowing space for that emotion and that grief is that I'm too much, that my worth as a friend, I'm not worth keeping in touch with, or that I'm the only one who values these memories and these experiences, and the other person doesn't.
• 26:07
  Michelle: And so by not either reaching for my tools to reconnect or to let go and process, I'm keeping it and I'm holding it, and then I'm continuing to look for proof that it's true, which is forcing me into this place of making it true.
• 26:22
  Danyelle: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:23
  Danyelle: The stories we tell ourselves.
• 26:25
  Michelle: Absolutely.
• 26:26
  Michelle: So as we come to the end here and the end of the season, I'm curious what has bubbled to the surface.
• 26:33
  Michelle: We've talked about our origin story, we've talked about the third thing as this prioritization of platonic friendship love.
• 26:42
  Michelle: We've talked about communication styles and nonviolent communication as a tool for conflict, about race, the breakup no one talks about, when a friendship ends, setting boundaries with friends.
• 26:56
  Michelle: We've talked about attachment styles, life stages and when they diverge.
• 27:01
  Michelle: We've talked about money and having those difficult conversations, and then today the grief of drifting.
• 27:10
  Danyelle: No pressure.
• 27:12
  Danyelle: As I said, we were not gonna stay on the surface.
• 27:15
  Danyelle: No, we went there.
• 27:18
  Danyelle: The thing that is bubbling up in reflection is how grateful I am for our foundation.
• 27:29
  Danyelle: I think at this point in our relationship, the foundation is secure.
• 27:37
  Danyelle: We have poured it and had to undo it and fix cracks and maybe pour it again, maybe move it.
• 27:51
  Danyelle: But we've got the steel beams, we've got that solid cement, the inspector has come out and given us the okay.
• 28:00
  Danyelle: So no matter what we're building on top, it's always gonna be secure.
• 28:04
  Danyelle: Again, that might change, that might shift, but the foundation that we've built is solid enough for us to weather the joys, the storms, and everything in between.
• 28:21
  Danyelle: In reflection of this episode, hearing your letter in your voice and really thinking about the ways that I'm there in that, writing it, hearing it.
• 28:35
  Danyelle: And as you said, just so grateful that these moments or these flirting, as you said, with drifting within our relationship hasn't ended it.
• 28:49
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Danyelle: That we continue to find each other, that we continue to choose each other, and it's so beautiful.
• 29:02
  Michelle: Thank you.
• 29:04
  Michelle: For me, these 10 episodes and the fact that we did go there, truly, is you said it perfectly.
• 29:14
  Michelle: It's the foundation of our relationship and our secure attachment.
• 29:18
  Michelle: And I feel so grateful that these at sometimes struggles and successes that we've had financially, racially, uh, and in relationship are now an offering to anyone who wants that kind of secure foundation stability in their life.
• 29:40
  Michelle: And that regardless of those moments of imposter syndrome where we wonder if we belong here, what a collection of conversations to offer.
• 29:54
  Michelle: And for this episode and seeing your tears, to me, that is the beauty of a truly nurtured love is that you get to be witnessed that this letter that I wrote was to myself about someone else, and the emotion that's coming up is because of how well you know me and you know what that letter means to me, and that I don't have to be alone in the grief then.
• 30:27
  Michelle: And I think that's really special and what I would wish for anyone in their relationships.
• 30:33
  Danyelle: Yes, yes.
• 30:35
  Danyelle: Michelle, I love you.
• 30:37
  Danyelle: I love you too.
• 30:43
  Danyelle: I think I want this to be for like these 10 episodes.
• 30:47
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 30:47
  Danyelle: You know, like what is that lasting message that we're gonna leave you with and will be returning for season two?
• 30:58
  Danyelle: But what is what is the last message here?
• 31:01
  Danyelle: The bookend, if you will, I will for season one.
• 31:09
  Danyelle: Yeah.
• 31:12
  Danyelle: I love it.
• 31:13
  Danyelle: I love it so much because it's bringing us back to the beginning.
• 31:17
  Danyelle: More page, and uh, this is I think our third page.
• 31:20
  Danyelle: We had the page of cups, now we've got the page of swords and pentacles.
• 31:26
  Danyelle: And this page of swords was top of deck.
• 31:31
  Danyelle: I talked a lot about how page energy is the some of the youngest energy in the tarot.
• 31:37
  Danyelle: And to me, this is all about uh leaning into new ways of thinking.
• 31:45
  Danyelle: Swords is connected to the element air, and it's our head, it's our message, it's Mercurian energy, it's communication, it's the throat chakra.
• 31:53
  Danyelle: And if we are looking at the page of swords as doing something differently, looking at it through this childlike eyes, inviting your inner children in to this conversation around platonic love, to this conversation around how we communicate in our friendships, what are our thoughts around friendships, how we are intentionally creating that space and naming it out loud.
• 32:27
  Danyelle: When you are a kid, you know, that's my best friend, you know, I want to hang out with this person.
• 32:34
  Danyelle: It's that excitement.
• 32:36
  Danyelle: And I do really feel like these page cards here name that that is the energy of the third thing.
• 32:45
  Danyelle: It is giving platonic love its moment to shine through the eyes of I have through the eyes of I have time, I'm not jaded, they will always be there.
• 33:01
  Danyelle: And we've learned that over the season.
• 33:04
  Danyelle: We've talked about how that's not always true, right?
• 33:07
  Danyelle: And bottom of the deck, page of pentacles, the building, the building of friendship, the building of platonic love.
• 33:17
  Danyelle: The figure is so focused on that pentacle.
• 33:21
  Danyelle: And I want all of you to see that pentacle as your Platonic beloveds.
• 33:27
  Danyelle: Put it in your hand and hold it and look at it.
• 33:34
  Danyelle: The Page of Pentacles is about the foundation.
• 33:37
  Danyelle: This is what I was just talking about, you know.
• 33:41
  Danyelle: And I'm so excited that these were these were the cards.
• 33:47
  Michelle: Thank you so much for joining us for our first season.
• 33:50
  Michelle: We're gonna see you next season.
• 33:53
  Danyelle: We're so excited.
• 33:54
  Danyelle: Thank you.
• 33:55
  Danyelle: Bye bye.
• 33:57
  Michelle: If today's episode meant something to you, share it with a friend.
• 34:01
  Michelle: Find us on Instagram at the Third Thing Pod, and everything we're building lives at www.thethirdthingpod.com.
• 34:09
  Michelle: Episode notes, our workbooks, all of it.
• 34:12
  Danyelle: And if you're ready to go deeper, real community, monthly events, early access, and to join the group chat, we're on Patreon.
• 34:20
  Michelle: The link is in the show notes.
• 34:22
  Michelle: If you're loving the show, a rating and review genuinely helps more people find us.
• 34:27
  Michelle: It takes two minutes and it means everything.