Latest / Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360 / #491: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Brand Stories | How Insomnia Cookies Turns Late-Night Cravings Into Community

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#491: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Brand Stories | How Insomnia Cookies Turns Late-Night Cravings Into Community · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Good afternoon, good morning.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's Mark Johnson from Look at 360.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hope everyone's happy, safe, and well.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to our brand stories edition of the Leaders and Customer Looking podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a Thursday, and it's great to have you with us.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Founded in 2003 in the University of Pennsylvania dorm room, and Sonya Cookies began when the founder of Steph Berkwick started delivering warm cookies to health students.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: In 2004, the first physical location was opened in Thurfate, New York.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was a plate near a college campus and it continues to serve the late night fragrance of the hotel students.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And today, as a competition and the retail cookie space grows, the counter food industry.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: While the brand remains focused on the college crowd, it is expanded to read through creative options like the project party on the fun domain, where loading program members can unlock their crucial experiences on the data vendor.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the only thing they have to do is open PJ.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing cookies is also leveraging social media to build community and keep them connected with its growing digital things.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: The rapid growth of the loyalty program to over 1.2 million customers in just over a year.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And most importantly, reveal Insomnia's Cookies most popular ice cream flavor.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: David, thank you very much for joining us today.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Good, good.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, Mike, for absolutely looking forward to this discussion.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: First off, for those who may not be familiar, can you give us a brief introduction to Insomnia Cookies?
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: How is the company started?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, what's led to the great success?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Insomnia Cookies is a uh a late-night indulgence brand.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and we offer warm delicious cookies and uh sort of this like uniquely wonderful ice cream, our own ice cream.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we have about 350 locations, and we're in the US, Canada, and the UK.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the company was started in 2003 uh by Seth Berkowitz.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh at the time he was a student at the University of Pennsylvania.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh he was struck by sort of this like dearth of late night options, specifically on the sweet side, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, he was playing video games with his roommates.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and for like the fifth time that night, the pizza delivery guy came and he he just got like so frustrated.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, there's gotta be something better here, like there's gotta be something that's warm and delicious and sweet, um, and like really hits that craving.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so he actually started baking the cookies right there out of his dorm room, um, running around the campus, making deliveries while the cookies were baking, then running back.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh from there, the you know, the concept really took off.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh, you know, we've grown pretty steadily throughout the years, and now we're at the point where we're growing about 20% every single year, um, uh, with a goal of growing to about 1800 locations.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: That is awesome.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um you talked a little bit about what led to the great success.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it seems like that that late night indulgence, especially in college towns, is is very apropos.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh are there uh the the cookie business uh competitor, there's uh a number of different cookie entities out of there, uh out.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how do you guys compete and how do you guys differentiate with with some of those other brands?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: So Insomnia has always resonated with sort of our core demographic.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and you, you know, you mentioned it college.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: We started really as a college brand, and you know, we're expanding more into more urban areas and now suburban areas as well.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: But uh at our core, what we offer our customers is a late night fun option, but it's also sort of warming classic in a way that I think provides sort of warm moments for uh for our customers.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's really sort of the um that element that we really hit on and that really resonates with our customers, especially like Powch Kids as they're sort of exerting their independence for the first time, they're out, they're out late, but there's a part of them that still wants that something that's that's warm and nostalgic and and makes them feel um, you know, sort of comfortable and almost like they're sort of back at home, but while they're still sort of out there on their own.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And and when we hit on that and when we can really deliver upon that that experience, uh, that's when we can really make a very strong connection uh with that customer.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, those connections can last years.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um can you tell us a bit more about your role with Insomnia Cookies, you know, what you do uh as your day-to-day and what maybe what you like, maybe what you don't like as much?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I'm the chief digital officer here.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I joined the company uh in early 2020.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm responsible for basically all of our uh technology teams and uh and projects and initiatives.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so that includes um everything that we do for our customer-facing um, you know, digital products, our customer-facing technology, our in-store technology, um, our technology infrastructure, uh, so the hardware and the networking, um, as well as sort of our day data analytics and AI.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so, you know, on a on a day-to-day basis, it's really trying to push and keep those things really moving.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: The things that, you know, that I love is when, you know, I'm I'm out there and I'm able to sort of push on things that are really unique and innovative and creative and really fit our business in like a very, you know, tailored way.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um those moments that are not so great, you know, when you wake up and and you turn over and you see your phone that there was this huge AWS outage like there was yesterday, and you're like, your first thought is, oh my God, what's gonna happen today?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Everything turned out fine.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: We have very, very few uh exposure to it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: But that's the world of technology.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: You sort of never know uh when that next blip is going to happen or that next outage is going to happen.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: And those can be sort of the uh the most stressful moments of the job.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and how did you get into the current role?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh chief digital officer, you're very focused on marketing.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Were the roles that you had that kind of led you into customer experience, customer loyalty?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh kind of Yeah.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I took a sort of a circuitous route here uh early early on in my career.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um I started out on Wall Street in the financial world, um, but you know, I had this pining for being able to really create something.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I sort of moved from that world into a digital product and had worked in digital product for a while.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: And at one point early on in that journey, I became the lead product person for an innovation lab within sort of a bigger company.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: And that really gave me that first taste of like trying to find these emerging technology trends and then trying to build these applications of those emerging trends to the core business.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, from there I went and I started uh uh you know my own business and I did that for several years.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and then when I exited that, I had already had sort of a previous relationship with Seth Burkowicz, the founder and CEO here.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and initially I just sort of came in and was helping consult and and you know, helping them work through some technology uh issues that they were having.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then that sort of you know transitioned into a full-time position here.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you look at your role, uh, you know, what what keeps you up at night?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the challenges or opportunities that you're facing within your position, within your role that uh, you know, that that you're focused on?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this will sound a little bit weird, but I don't want the thing that keeps me up at night is that I don't ever want to be the next blockbuster video.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what I mean by that is number one, I don't want to be that person that like just whiffed on seeing this big transformational change coming.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um or I think even the worst version of that is, you know, that I can see that coming and I wasn't successful in helping our organization sort of move and respond to that in time.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, what I what I'm thinking about in the middle of the night is well, what's sort of emerging in different industries, what's emerging in technology, what are some of the powers that are sort of shifting the foundations of the world in which we operate?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and which one of those sort of things are going to actually rise up to be this sort of big wave that washes out, you know, a bunch of people that weren't expecting it and then helps propel a bunch of a bunch of companies that were sort of able to read it and ride that, you know, that ride that wave to sort of a dominant position within the industry.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I spend probably too much of my downtime thinking about things like that.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's definitely a very unique uh time, as you know, AI and some of the challenges and our opportunities.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And also think even how different brands or different individuals are using AI.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's been uh a number of uh readings uh recently in The Economist and the Wall Street Journal, just about there's a bifurcation between how brands are using it.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Some uh they believe gonna make them smarter and uh more uh you know uh successful, and and others, how they're using AI could be the exact opposite, right?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna make individuals more dependent on the technology and potentially less successful.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you're seeing as well as kind of this convergence of all this different tech?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, AI is definitely one of those, one of those things that's that's sort of a big obsession at this point for everybody and you know, and for me, and trying to understand the dynamics that that will sort of unlock, the challenges that that will present, the opportunities that that will sort of open up, um, is you know, I think something that everybody is is trying to figure out.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um what I find is that the you know, the takes that are all one-sided probably gonna be wrong.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: This thing is, you know, this technology and and sort of this disruption that's coming is sort of so widespread that you're gonna see sort of a little bit of bucket A, a little bit of bucket B, a little bit of bucket C as far as uh what the impact of those things are.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think the key is to sort of try to figure out what those biggest disruptors are and where those biggest opportunities are gonna sort of open up.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about this a little bit, but uh since the mid-2000s, the amount of competition in the gourmet space, uh cookie space has grown significantly.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about how you're unique.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, how has your approach to customer loyalty uh among your fan base helped uh differentiate your offering?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so for us, we think of our customer loyalty, and we did from sort of day one of when we sort of redesigned and relaunched this program.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we think of this as being a core tool that we have that helps us build and strengthen what we refer to as our insomniac community.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we refer to our insomniac community as sort of encompassing both our employees and our and our customers.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's a community that's based upon people that that sort of love those sweet, indulgent and warm moments, uh, those late night people, those people that sort of are, you know, are going all out in everything that they do and are looking for opportunities to sort of connect and and bond with people over these shared great experiences.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we went to sort of design our loyalty program, we we were we were trying to not think about it, right, as something that, hey, we just really want to um drive more transactions or we really want to drive bigger tickets or anything like that, right?
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Those are sort of the short-term things.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if those are not sort of creating a stronger community, then the uh the impact of those will sort of dissipate very quickly.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so for us, it was about starting with this concept of community and connection, and then how can we sort of design our loyalty program as something that encourages and strengthens that?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, as that relates to sort of our competition, um, I think for us, the idea that we are constantly aware of that community and investing within that community, that helps lead to the long-term health of the brand.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: That helps give us the the momentum that that we need in order to spread out to 1800 locations.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think chasing pennies or chasing transactions, that wouldn't lead us to that, to that same uh that same goal.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: You talked a little bit about you know community and connection, which is very important, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: And understanding who your audience is, how they engaged you, what their expectations of you are.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how has the growth of social media impacted this space?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And how, you know, how does Insomnia Cookies leverage social on the digital marketing channels to grow and engage your customer base?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so social media is like a huge force uh within our industry, and I think in many industries, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's I think become the you know the predominant uh type of media that that people consume on a on a regular basis.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a little bit scary for for brands because it's not necessarily the type of media that media that you're in control of, right?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Social media can sort of spin off on its own.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but for us, what's been great to see is that it's also created an opportunity for our insomniacs to rally around our brand on social media.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so what you'll see, you know, people will post videos of reviewing our product or reviewing a competitor's product, and you go into the comments and you just see, you know, our our members of our insomniac community popping up and being like, oh, insomnia cookies, I love those guys.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Please come to my to my town.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I used to go to college, I would love to have one near where I live now.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, when we post content on social media, uh people are able to sort of jump in and they tag family members or friends and they go, oh, we got to try out this new, you know, this new flavor, or oh my God, they opened up a new location near us, let's go together.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're able to sort of see how people are using that social media uh content, whether we've created it or not, to connect with each other, to share with each other, to plan with each other, and to sort of create these moments where they sort of bring our brand in.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And we're very privileged to, you know, to be able to sit at that, at that point where people come and they seek us out to have a great time and to have a sweet moment.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, last year, Tom Carasano, he talked about how Insomnia Rewards was redesigned to bridge the gap between in-commerce, uh, e-commerce, should I say, and in-commerce, uh, in-store customers.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: From your digital perspective, and since you're in charge of the technology platforms, you know, what were some of the bigger challenges or opportunities or even breakthroughs that uh you went through in kind of unifying these channels in your role?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So when I first joined uh Insomnia, I uh I spent a lot of time talking to people about my belief that technology is really a tool that's meant to connect people.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of its one of its most powerful uses, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so deploying technology effectively to connect us with our customers, to connect our customers with each other, um, to connect our, you know, our support center with our, with our employees that are out there at our 350 locations, that's where the power of our technology lies.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but as we were sort of you know deploying our technology and uh and sort of our all of that consumer-facing uh digital products, we kept hitting this blocker because we knew we had this view of customers that were using our app or ordering off of our website.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And we knew that they were going into our stores to you know to buy our cookies and to try out our ice cream, uh, but we would just lose sight of them there.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um we didn't know when they were going, we didn't know what they were buying, we didn't know any of the things that they were sort of doing there.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so as we were trying to form this connection with our customers and and uh and to try to serve them in the best way that we possibly could, we were sort of doing it with a, you know, with only seeing half of the of the picture.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so for that, you know, we started to say, okay, as we redesign our loyalty program, what could we do in order to create a platform that helps us engage uh our community of insomniacs across all of our channels?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so for us it was very important to have this loyalty program sort of have a presence both in our stores and online and in our app.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we're now able to sort of build these experiences that sort of span that divide between the digital world and sort of the brick and mortar world.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, as an example, uh a couple of weeks ago, we had our annual PJ party event.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, PJ Party is this great event that we have.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's almost like a grand opening party at every single one of our locations.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: We do it every September as a way to sort of welcome students back into the fold.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, students come out, trest head to toe on pajamas, there are giveaways, there are games, there's balloons and balls and you know, all these things.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, there's great warm cookies and delicious ice cream.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so we sort of created this experience that if you were signed up for our loyalty program, there would be something that you'd be able to sort of click into, bring it into the store, and it would unlock these other experiences and these other rewards within the store itself.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so that night we were able to sort of see, like through our digital properties and through what was going on in our brick and mortar, almost see the entire insomniac community pulsate.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then it went on to social media and then it got shared.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so for for me, that was this like perfect moment where that vision of that in-person experiences and the digital experiences sort of like coming together and magnifying itself and helping that sort of connection and the strength of that community really sort of came into full picture.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's what's the craziest thing that's happened ever happened at a PJ party?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is there any story you can tell?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, unfortunately, I'm often at the center of some of the craziest things that happened because I love PJ Party.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I spent this past PJ party.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I was in Florida for a restaurant technology conference.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I ended up, it was in Orlando.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up going to driving out to Tampa, hitting a bunch of our locations there, then driving back to Orlando.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and as sort of I I love to do, I love having a great time with our customers.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so there were games and cookie eating contests, and I was giving out shots of chocolate milk, and uh, you know, it uh it was sort of an awesome moment in our temple, uh, in which Temple University in Philadelphia.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we had a social media personality uh come out and there was a breakdancing competition.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, PJ Party is always a blast, it's always a great time, and it really embodies who we are uh as a brand.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the new uh Insomnia Rewards program, it's uh great, yeah, it's seen great success since May of 2024 when I think you launched it.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I think you have 1.2 million signups, uh, 550,000 customers have redeemed rewards.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you know, what does this tell you about the your customers, your program, and how they're engaging with the brand?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's it's sort of like what I said before, right?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: For our brand, when when we see success like this, it means that we're sort of accomplishing what we've been trying to do.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: We we don't aspire to just sell our customers products, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: We don't aspire to just have a transactional uh relationship that sort of dissipates the second they walk out that, you know, walk out the door.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um what we're trying to do is to help our customers have these great experiences and great moments that they'll remember for always when they spend time with friends and family members or colleagues.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we want to help people connect and have these sort of sweet moments.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so for us, the success of our of our you know rewards program, it means that what we're doing is we're helping our customers have more and more of those moments, and that's resonating with them in a you know powerful and emotional way.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, the success of the program reflects the set the success of what sort of our goal was there and our ability to execute on it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: You you've talked about a couple of times uh just uh the choice and opportunity uh for brands, for sort of should I say, for customers to engage in the insomnia rewards program?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're giving customers more choice, you know, from earning and redeeming anywhere to some of the things you talked about at PJ party.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how did customer feedback or how are you listening to customers uh or behavioral data help change the focus of the program, the openness of the program, the direction of the program?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: So back before we sort of relaunched this program about a year and a half ago, we had like a very, very standard, um, very straightforward rewards program.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, the the very basic, like you spend X amount, you get X amount back type of thing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so we started a conversation with our customers there about what they really, what they really wanted and and what would be an engaging experience and a meaningful experience for them.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: And we haven't stopped since then uh in seeking out feedback from our customers and understanding, you know, where, you know, what what they want now and how that's sort of evolving and changing over time.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the main things that we learned is that our customers, number one, wanted the chance to rack up points uh for what they were doing.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then they wanted to use those points in like in fun and and different ways.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh based upon that feedback, uh very soon we're gonna be launching uh a new feature for our rewards program.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's called Cookied.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so the way that it works is that every month a customer will sort of get like a credit uh for a free cookie that they can send to anyone in their life and where you know there'll be sort of prompts to say, oh, this is for a thank you, or this is for congratulations, or this is for sort of a happy birthday.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And the idea of it is to sort of use the power of that, like, you know, that single cookie um as a token uh for someone to say, you know, a quick thanks for helping me move last week, or hey, you know, I just want you to know that I'm thinking about you and I know we haven't seen each other in a while, but you know, here's a cookie on me.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so we think that's that that's a very cool way for our insomniacs to to connect with each other uh and to sort of bring sort of a little bit more warmth into uh into their lives.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the type of things where we're, you know, when I talk about moving away from a purely transactional uh type of program, it's it's things like this where, you know, this isn't even sort of a revenue driver for us, but it is something that, again, for us helps strengthen our community and strengthen the bonds between the members of that community.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um when you look at the new program, we talked about a little bit, and we mentioned before the in-store and the online experience, kind of kind of combining them, you know, what motivated that shift and how does it uh kind of support this broader effort of customer choice, of customer engagement, of you know, customer loyalty?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we always aspire to meet our customers where they are, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to force our customers to interact with us in a way that works best for us.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: We want our customers to sort of engage with us and interact with us in the in wherever it is that they are.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so if it's easy for them to sort of stop by on their way out of class in one of our stores, or if it's easier for them to get back to their home and order us, you know, late night and have us show up at midnight, 1 a.m., 2 a.m., that's very, very meaningful for us to say, hey, we're here to serve you, we're here to meet you uh where you are.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so for us, when we're before we had a loyalty program that was very sort of focused and concentrated on those online digital experiences and not so much in the in-store experience, I felt like we were sending the message to our customers of, oh, if you want to sort of engage with us in this way, right?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you want to rack up these loyalty points or you want to spend these loyalty points, we need you to do it only over here, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Only this door is open for you.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we felt like that sent the wrong message to our customers, right?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: That there was, you know, sort of an unevenness in what they're what they could expect from us in our in our digital presence and what they can expect from us in our brick and mortar.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh we didn't feel like that was a message that really reflect reflected who we are as a brand or how we wanted to present ourselves to our insomniac community.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so for us, when we built out this new loyalty platform, it was important for us to say, hey, no matter where you are and no matter how you're interacting with our brand, we want this experience to be the same.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: We want it to feel connected.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: We don't we want it to feel seamless, right?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want you to feel that that friction uh in any meaningful way.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's how we sort of designed it and executed on it.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, Gen Z and young adults, uh, I would think still kind of the heart of the Insomnia uh fan base, the this younger generation, when you when you look at them, how are you tailoring your digital uh strategies, digital efforts uh to you know meet the expectations of this you know, always connected, always on generation?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think we really tried to have fun with it.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I know that that's probably something that you know that maybe a lot of brands say, um, but fun is a core element of who we are at Insomnia, right?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: We always, I always think about you know, a lot of the time I've spent in bakery, especially late at nights, and and people are coming into the bakery already on a high.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: They've already had a great night out, they've already had a great night with their friends, and we're sort of like that nightcap on that, you know, on that, on that great evening.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: And for us, it's about taking that momentum and really sort of building it up.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so as a brand, again, we don't want this to be a transactional thing.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want you to sort of walk into a store and be like, oh yeah, oh, I have these points and I was coming in for a cookie, but okay, fine.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'll instead of taking out my credit card, I'll just scan my barcode and I'll I'll get that cookie for free.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can just keep that fun going.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, as an example of that, um, we created a challenge this past summer.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it was our ice cream challenge.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so the more of our ice cream products that you that you went and tried, the more sort of chances you earned in order to win a whole bunch of you know awesome prizes.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, what we were trying to do with with something like that is for us, ice cream is like the key to great moments in the summer, right?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's that big amplifier.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's the you had a a great day with the family or a great day with the friends, and you're like, oh, you know what would hit the spot right now?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Some ice cream.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hot outside, ice cream is the best.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so we wanted to weave that into the experiences that our our customers were having and sort of up the fun with that and make it a game and make it a challenge and open up the opportunity for something more than just a free scoop or a free cone or something like that.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, that's how we really try to do it, and I think that really resonates with our younger demographic who are looking for things that again go sort of beyond the transactional nature and really speak to them on a on a more uh emotional and uh and a deeper emotional level.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what are the top one or two flavors of ice cream?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I think one of our biggest ones is we call it cookies and dream.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh you know, it's our cookies and cream uh variety, but you know, late night brand dream.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we have a salted caramel, which is absolutely uh fantastic.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: The great thing about our our ice cream, it's it's called Insomnia Cookies.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's cookies in ice cream.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: So almost all of the flavors have little chunks of our cookies actually sort of weaved into the cookie itself, into the ice cream itself.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so you get that sort of mix of flavors and textures um with every single bite.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's really fantastic.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: As an ice cream fanatic myself, I uh I deeply enjoy our ice cream.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know you uh have been expanding internationally, and that can be uh you know challenging at best.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I know you have locations in the UK and Canada, and I think you have more on the horizon.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what goes into uh you know what considerations go into scaling a loyalty program digitally across these different markets, you know, with different customer expectations, different uh different rules and regulations throughout the EU, uh, having to have you know kind of stand uh stand up a different entity potentially in each location.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, how do you look at managing internationally?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so the first thing is like what you said, your first thought process, your first thought goes to sort of the regulatory environment in each in each uh country um or even province where you where you operate, as an example.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Quebec is very, very different than Ontario.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so you start to sort of harp on those things around the rules like data privacy and where you're storing data and how you're masking personally identifiable information about email rules and text and text communication rules.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you're sort of you know very, very focused on that and compliance to that.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but what you also realize is that each market, there are different expectations about how brands behave.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's different expectations on from the customers on how they want to engage with brands and how they want to connect with brands.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you build out a loyalty platform, what you're trying to do is you're trying to leave it to be flexible and powerful enough that the local teams are then able to um craft.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Specific experiences that speak directly to the customers within that market.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, as an example, in our in our UK market, brands are a little bit more forward about how they push the envelope.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: And sort of they're a little bit a little bit more crazy from a US perspective and how they and how they craft these experiences.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Our UK team wanted to create an experience where if you got an insomnia tattoo, then you would have free cookies for life.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so there's, you know, that's definitely outside the wheelhouse of our of our business here in the US, but we wanted still to allow our loyalty program to enable something like that, right?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Where that person, when they take that sort of ultimate step in, in, you know, declaring themselves a lifelong insomniac, they're able to, we're able to reciprocate and make sure that they get the experience uh within store and online uh that that they deserve for that level of commitment.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, that's the that's what you're trying to do.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're trying to empower those those local teams to really do what they need to do in order to build a community that's specific to that location.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's uh you're not being ethnocentric in that regard, right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're giving them some technology, giving them some processes that that work, but allowing them to kind of you know contour the program to the uniqueness of their audiences, correct?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, that's sort of the name of the game here, right?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: Everything in this world moves so fast, and things that are engaging today are going to be boring and out of style tomorrow, right?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you build a platform like this to be to fill only a space, a specific need and to only function in one way, then you're going to have to tear it down and rebuild it very, very quickly.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you're constantly going to be almost behind that level of change.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so instead, the way that you, you know, that we tried to build this was let's make this sort of flexible enough and dynamic enough that as things shift, we'll already have those foundational pieces in place to allow us to sort of shift with it.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, perfect.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you look at uh what's next, yeah, is it are there some things that you're working on with regard to personalization, gamification, app experience, and digital efforts that uh that you're uh excited about, the potential for insomnia cookies?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so you know, I mentioned our cookie feature before, uh, which I think is just a great example of how we do something that, you know, another brand might say, hey, you get 100 points for referring a friend or something like that.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: For us, this was a very uniquely insomnia way to approach how we how we build and connect our insomnia community.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think you'll see more challenges like we did with our with our ice cream challenge, right?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: That level of sort of gamification.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: But I think one of the things that I'm most excited about is I think there's going to be a transformational leap that we're able, going to be able to pull off as far as personalization goes.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think we spoke a little bit about AI before.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: One of the great things uh or sort of the unlocks that I'm anticipating from AI is its ability to sort of break the bottleneck of um what I would call sort of like human capacity, right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: So if we had a, you know, a very uh we have a very robust and talented marketing team.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And still as they try to tailor insomnia experiences for our customers, they're talking about segments, a half dozen segments of our customers, or maybe even a dozen that we can sort of get up to.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: AI is an unlock for that because AI can say, hey, I can create a hundred different segments, I can create 200 different segments, and I can personalize the the way that that insomnia presents itself for each individual customer and start to have a very personalized conversation or a one-to-one conversation with that, with that customer.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so we're we're sort of working on our um rewards program to enable that level of sort of custom experience.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And and we think that that'll help drive a much higher level of connection and engagement and virality to everything that we do uh via that program.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you look at program holistically, what are two or three things that you're most proud of?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um You know, I think for me, I'm a very process-oriented person.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so the thing that I'm most proud of is the process that we've used and that we continue to use to sort of design and and execute on this program, right?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: The idea that from the start, um, we wanted this to be something that was based off the obsession that we have about our customers and about our insomniac community.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we didn't want this to be something that served us as a, you know, as a business.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: We wanted this to be something that that really resonated with our insomniac community and served them.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we wanted this to be a manifestation of who we are as a brand.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so the idea that it's something that's fun, that is, that ties together sort of the digital and the, you know, and the and sort of the in-store experiences, um, the ability to sort of build these experiences that sort of take off and allow our customers to sort of, you know, connect and and build more and more relationships.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: That to me is sort of the thing that I'm most proud of and and I feel sort of most validated that we, that our process in building this was the right process and the right approach.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what can loyalty 360 do to help you and your team with your customer loyalty efforts?
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I sort of mentioned before that one of the things that I do in the middle of the night and during some of my downtime is is try to sort of read these trends and see what's going on out there in other industries with other businesses and um and themes that sort of are emerging.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, loyalty 360 and and you know, what you do is sort of you know, disseminating and publicizing what what brands are doing that's interested and creative and innovative, um, that's a really a great resource for for us to sort of keep up with um what's going on out there, what's sort of emerging, what are sort of new or interesting ways of looking at things and uh and and just watching those other companies execute on it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, excellent.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and now we have our wonderful quickwire round of questions.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: We like to keep these to uh one word or a short phrase.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we'll start off with what's your favorite word?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I get made fun of a lot for this, but my favorite word is dynamic, and I use it too much, so I've tried to sort of stop on it.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: But what it means for me is that ability to read and react what's going on around you, and then to sort of change your approach based upon that.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh dynamic.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: What's your least favorite word?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh bureaucracy.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's the the word itself, even feels ugly and and and and nasty to me.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know that it has a function and a role uh in in the world that we live in, but to me it it implies this this lack of connection and this lack of warmth that's just that's just really dissonant to me at my core.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: What excites you?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think we touched on this a little bit before, but uh there's uh there's really nothing for me that that's nothing can can match watching a big game with a lot of very, very dedicated and invested people, whether you're in the stadium in that moment or you're at a watch party, there's a raw power of like connection and like sort of communal jubilation that happens in those moments that just even the I like the thought of it possibly happening sometime soon really gets me gets me going.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's awesome.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh what do you find tiresome?
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think a day that doesn't have anything that challenges me or pushes me.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I've had days where I'm very, very busy, where my mind at the end of the day feels like chewed up bubblegum.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um and while I'm very tired at an end of the day like that, I still have like a level of energy that comes with having had such a, you know, such a fun and interesting day, uh, a bland day or sort of a routine day.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's like a much deeper fatigue that I feel at the end of that.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: That makes perfect sense.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is there a book that you've read uh that you like to recommend to colleagues?
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm not a big book recommender because I really feel like you know, it's people have very different tastes in books, and and uh I uh it's very hard to get a good read on somebody and understand what kind of books they like.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: But I would say the one that I sort of mention the most to colleagues is the the Steve Jobs biography by Walter Isaacson.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think that uh Isaacson does such a great job of bringing across the point that the the per if you if you are true to the person that you are and you're true to that person both in your personal life and in your professional life, that is what sort of drives the the most authentic manifestation of of what you are.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not possible to sort of be a high performer or a high achiever if you try to say, hey, I'm one person at home and I'm one person in work.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: You have to be who you are to the fullest all the time.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that that sort of really comes across within that, within that biography.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Reddit, it's a great book for sure.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, is there a profession other than the one you are currently in that you may like to attend?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I love this question because I think about this all the time.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, like I would love to just do a full year of doing a week of different jobs because I love learning and solving new problems.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but if I had to say, you know, there was a more specific thing that I'd be interested in, uh, it's really anything around designing buildings or spaces, um, whether it's architecture or interior design or anything like that.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's sort of the ultimate puzzle to create a space where people where people flourish um and and are successful.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be a lot of fun.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh are there um things that you enjoy that you maybe don't get uh as time, uh as much time to do as you may have in the past?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would say traveling on my own terms.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I have uh I'm married and I have children, and and you know, when I travel for work, obviously I'm there and I have a million things that I want to try to do for the business.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I travel with my family, I'm trying to make sure that everyone's having a great time and getting what they, you know, the most that they can out of the experience.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then like sometimes I'll get like an afternoon to really go and do something that like I want to do.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'd love to have more experiences like that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I love being out there in the world and and learning from people and seeing new things and experiencing new things.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so that's probably the thing that I love that I don't get it to do enough.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Who inspired you to become the person you are today?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's a really tough question because I spent so much time when I, especially when I was younger, just trying to see what who people are and what they're doing, and which of those things sort of resonate with me, and trying to, I think, craft a life that's unique for for myself, um, that I would find rewarding and that I would find enjoyable.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that that idea of being able to sort of imagine any life for myself uh is something that I really took from my father.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my father came to the US from Egypt when he was 12 years old.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: He came here without his parents uh into a new place and with not knowing the language and and you know, all those things.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he was able to imagine a life for himself that I think like was probably a huge leap for this, you know, this 12-year-old kid that was sort of coming to to this new country on his own.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so the uh that sort of ability and that courage and that sort of you know bravery to be able to imagine and then create that world, that life for yourself is something that I'm inspired by all the time.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you typically think about at the end of the day?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is probably a boring answer, but I think about what I need to do tomorrow and how I want to make you know tomorrow the the best possible day given you know whatever it is that I have on my on my schedule.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, how do you want to be remembered by your friends and family?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd probably just settle for being remembered in any way.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I think uh, you know, for me, what I what I always try to do um is I try to show people how much I I care about them and how invested I am in them through, you know, acts of service.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um I want to show them that I'll do that I'll do anything for them and that they can always sort of count on me.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope that they remember that.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that they remember that I care deeply about them and that uh I was always there for them.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: David, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us today.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure getting to meet you and getting an update on Insomnia and Cookies customer loyalty program and the unique and differentiated things you're doing with technology.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's always great to hear someone with a passion and focus that you have.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much, Mark.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was great talking to you.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely seems like you and Tom are building quite the brand powerhouse, you know, with a solid product, a focus on the customer.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not surprising you continue to build community and connections with your customers through your laser focused customer loyalty program.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you, everyone else, for taking the time to join us today.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you check back every Thursday for Industry Voices Podcast.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you can subscribe, or we would love to have you subscribe to the Leaders and Customer Loyalty Podcast.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: And follow Loyalty360 on YouTube and LinkedIn.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: We made it easy for you with the links below.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: And until next Thursday, have a wonderful day.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks everyone.