Latest / Shouty Brain / #10: Sam Munster
Transcript
- Trevor Holland: Hello, my name is Trevor Holland and welcome to Shouty Brain, the podcast from a late diagnosed Audi HD man on a voyage of discovery to find my people in a neurotypical world. I hope everyone's doing very well this week. I'm doing much better today than I was the day that I recorded this episode. So I need to warn everybody. It wasn't a good day for for Uncle Trev, I'm afraid. I was very burnt out. And as I said at the beginning, when I first started doing this podcast about two months ago now. it was gonna be quite warts and all and there are many a wart. I have good days and bad days, as does everybody. but in a in a neurodiverse situation, some days I I have more energy than others, some days I'm a little bit burnt out, my social batteries a little bit lower. Now what I didn't wanna do was only do the podcast on my good days. I wanna do the podcast on all of my days because I can't predict what what my days are going to be like from one day to the next. that's not to say however that I didn't have a lovely time during this episode. This week I interviewed Sam Munster, who is the queen of horror hyperfixations. She is herself, Audi HD. She is a horror enthusiast who hosts her own podcast, Horror Hyperfixations, which is fantastic. as the name suggests, she is obsessed with all things horror and she was a fantastic guest and she loves to talk, which she will attest to. and I love listening to her talk, so that's convenient. the reason I gave that little caveat at the beginning is because listening back I realised that I I was very worn out that day and maybe I wasn't doing as much of the of the chatting as I could have done. but luckily for me Sam did pick up the slack. so It was a bit of a low energy Trevor this week, so my apologies if that is offensive to you. but it was a wonderful chat. Now, as I always say, please do, if you enjoy this podcast, like, subscribe, comment, interact. best way to get in touch with me is via shoutybrain.com, where you will find links to the YouTube channel and everything else and actually a link to contact me directly which I welcome you to do. the podcast as always is on video format and on audio format. So whichever one you prefer please subscribe and and leave a review. The video versions are in my opinion the better ones when you get a little bit more insight into the conversation, especially this week where there is a cameo from my cat Sam the Goblin who is a beautiful little baby. And also, if you're watching the video, you'll get an insight into Sam Munster's house, which is one of the most aesthetically beautiful dwellings I've ever set my eyes upon. So please do enjoy that. stick around at the end for a little goodbye message, but for now, enjoy Sam Munster. Welcome Sam Monster to Shouty Brain. Sam Munster: No Trevor Holland: How are you my friend? Sam Munster: Not too bad, thank you. I've I've had a very shouty brain today, to be honest. So you did pick a perfect name for your podcast. Very good. But yeah, but I'm glad to speak to you now. Trevor Holland: Good. So you've had a shouty brain today, have you? Anything in particular? Sam Munster: I have I just felt very stuck today. I sometimes have days where I just can't do things and I just kept finding ways to delay myself for what I had to do until I got to the point where I was like, I am literally too late now to be able to do all the things I need to do. And then I just got stuck. I had I'm real good at getting stuck in my car, just sitting there. So I drove to work and sat in the car for about half an hour before I decided actually I'm gonna go home. And then decided, actually no, I'm gonna go treasure hunting in the local reuse centre for some dopamine and then I'll go home. And dopamine I found. Trevor Holland: good. In and what what form did that take? Did you find any treasures today? Sam Munster: I did. I found two really lovely silver teapots, which I now need to polish up, so that'll be an enjoyable little task. I found some hornsy pottery. I really like hornsy pottery. a couple of just bits of gubbins, a really old photo of some random old lady, though don't know who she is, but she's in a nice frame. And what else would I get? I was so excited, now I've forgotten all the things I got, but good stuff. I got good stuff. Good treasures. Trevor Holland: I I I like going around charity shops and stuff. There's one in town here that's got a specific retro floor. It's a two floor shop and the upstairs bit is all retro vintage shit and I go in there mainly just for the smell. I love the smell of the old stuff. Sam Munster: Mm, me too, yeah. Trevor Holland: And I I would just rifle through the books and smell the books. I love that crap. Sam Munster: I also got a book, that's what I also got. A a book about North America published in nineteen thirty-three. And I only bought it for the Trevor Holland: Ugh, PFO. Sam Munster: cover. The cover is absolutely gorgeous. I'll send you a picture when we're done. It's just so lovely. And I just like having these like trinkets. As you as as you said about my house, like I like having trinkets and treasures. And some of them will go on the wall in various rooms of my house. Trevor Holland: Yes. Before we go any further, I need to talk to you about your house. I've been I've seen on your TikTok project paint it black, painting your front door, Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: painting your window frames and stuff like that. How much of the inside of your house is black? Sam Munster: the room we're in now, the living room is currently being painted black because I painted it grey to appease my ex husband because he said it'd be too dark and now I'm like fuck it I'm painting it black. so that is gonna be black. My bedroom is black, the spare room is also being painted black, and the stairs and the landing space will also be painted black. So it's it's like a long process because money and spoons to do it, but gradually get her in there. Got black ceilings in places as well. So like my entryway just a bit, it would be really dark if it was black. So it's a really dark burgundy, but I painted the ceiling black. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: we've got we've got black ceilings in some rooms as well. Trevor Holland: I'm gonna sound like a real old bastard here, but I keep hearing people say spoons and I don't know what it means. Sam Munster: Okay, so the spoon theory is I think it was originated in like the chronic illness community. In fact, imagining like every day you've got a you open the drawer and there's so many spoons in there and every task takes however many spoons. So having a shower might take five spoons, cooking your dinner might take twenty spoons. So by the time you get to the end of the day, you might have used all your spoons up and all the tasks. You need to do in the evening from the spoons anymore. I don't know where the spoons came from. I don't know why the person showed the spoons, but a lot of people with like disabilities and chronic illness will call themselves spoonies. and they just sort of assimilated, I think, into like language and culture, but not enough that you knew what it was. But yeah, it it's quite an easy thing. Like I used it to explain to my child. when I'm struggling with energy and things and saying, you know, think of a bowl full of and I just like marbles as an example because it was easier for them. And just said, you know, I'm c taking marbles out all the day with the different jobs that I'm doing. And then by the time I get to the end of the day, sometimes there's no marbles left. Sometimes there are marbles left by bedtime, but other times there aren't. And they were like, okay. And that that was the way they could understand. And I think they were maybe five at this point. so it was like a nice easy way of explaining to people what that sort of theory is. But I think you can use it for neurodivergence as well, because obviously you know how much certain tasks take up of your energy. And one of my favorite phrases that people have sort of jumped onto off the back of the spoon thing I've got no spoon, like only nice and I'm like, Yes, love that. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: I'm angry now because I'm so tired and you've pushed me so much. I've used all my energy, I've only got stabbing left. Love that. Trevor Holland: No, that's good 'cause I had no idea and I've heard loads of people say it and it hadn't got to a point yet where I was embarrassed enough to s to say what the fuck are you talking about? But you're you're you're that you're that person for me, 'cause you just said it that one time that tips me over the edge and say, Well, I've got to know what this fucking thing's I've got to know what people are talking about when they say this. So thank you. You have educated me. Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. No problem. Well, the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask, so I always ask questions to a ridiculous, annoying degree. I piss people off by the amount of questions I ask. But I need to know. So just ask. Trevor Holland: I ask a lot of questions, ma mainly clarification questions, because everything's just too vague. It's too Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Trevor Holland: vague. Tell me the facts and tell me all of them and quickly before I run out of spoons. Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Exactly. There you go. See life change now. You can use the use the phrase spoons confidently. Trevor Holland: Yeah. So yeah, so I I love the aesthetic of your house. I'm very pleased that it is spreading out of just that area as well. but Sam Munster: My whole house looks like this with just multiple things Trevor Holland: It's great. Sam Munster: on the wall everywhere. It is it is the most I don't know whether you could say it probably is all D HD rather than either of the the two, is the most like all DHD decorating ever because I just find all these little things and I'm like I must have this, this will make me happy. And then I throw it on the wall and I get to look at them all and I'm just like, Yes, look at it. And it's definitely like a special interest like collecting antiques and just weird shit. I've got lots of like little sub collections like these people here. I love buying photos of old people who are probably dead now and thinking about the life they might have had and that at some point someone in their family didn't want their portrait anymore and checked it out, took it to a charity shop and now they they live on my walls and they're part of my family. They're called Hector and Mildred. I don't know what their real names are, but I call them Hector and Mildred. Trevor Holland: I love that kind of stuff. I really do. I always think about the history of stuff. I'm a bit obsessed with the passage of time in general, right? So I will really? I mean I I'm talking about the passage. Sam Munster: I don't like it, I'm terrified of it. Yeah. Not because I'm scared of dying, but like just the existential crisis of being alive and like the the the Trevor Holland: yeah. Sam Munster: ever, ever terrifying landscape of things, horrors. Trevor Holland: Well, I like looking backwards though. I'm not so when I say the passage of time I'm not talking about looking into the future necessarily, if that's what you mean. But I'm I was I'm a bit obsessed with decay and stuff like Sam Munster: Mm. Trevor Holland: that. You know, like abandoned places and stuff Sam Munster: Yes, love that. Trevor Holland: that were s stuff that have been marked by the passage of time. And you and you you you kind of peeled away when something's been reclaimed by nature or something, you know, it's you g you get p stuff like that and you just go back and you think about what it was like before and you look at you find an old knackered building and then you look up what that building used to be and y when it was in on in all its glory and you can imagine the stories that place has got to tell. And sometimes I really feel like a place can really have such history in in its bricks, you know, it just I f i i I feel the vibes of places and stuff like that. So I'm I'm I'm I'm into I'm really into the past in general. but one of the things that stands out about you that drew my attention to you is your horror hyperfixations. So I would like to know what it is, if you can sum it up. about horror that fascinates you so much. Sam Munster: I don't know. it does seem to be a really common thing within the neurodivergent community. There's a lot of horror fans, or if you look at the horror community, there's a lot of neurodivergent people. I've always been drawn to like the darker things. I used to meet goosebumps when I was little. I used to read horrible histories because I wanted to read all the disgusting stuff. Always been fascinated by the macabre, the dark, and anything that people would say that's scary, that's gross, I'd be Well, I automatically like that now because something in my brain said you need to like the things that other people don't like. And I think there was some underlying thing of like knowing I didn't feel right and knowing I didn't feel like everybody else, and when I'd hear things about what I felt like to be a person and a human, I al always thought, mm, it doesn't feel like that for me. So I just think I gravitated towards things that other people didn't like because I didn't feel like other people. And as I've got older and spent more time like looking at horror neurodivergence, I see a lot of parallels in the fact that, you know, most Most horror is written and created by outsiders. The act of liking horror generally is like an outsider thing because it's not what everyone watches. It's not what everybody likes. People are horrified that you can sit and watch some other shit that we watch. They're horrified Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: that you can put that on to go to bed and fall asleep. and as I've been learning through like podcasting and chatting to different people about their relationship to neurodivergence and horror have been little revelations of things like, well, Michael Myers, for example, he's an outsider. He's always on the outskirts of everything. He's just watching, he's observing. He literally wears a mask. He cannot Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: go around and and do all his little kill ins without his mask on. And I think the reason that a lot of us gravitate towards horror and love the villains is because we see ourselves in them. Not that we're gonna go around stabbing and murdering, but that sort of quiet recluse. They're always they're always the weird kid that had an accident or the quiet guy who lives in the mountains. There's always some outsider element and I think a lot of us gravitate towards that. But also just the the controlled the environment to experience things. I can watch horror films and have a lovely time. You put me in a haunted house in a theme park and I am absolutely having a fucking melt. I can't cope with it in real life because I know I haven't got any control over it. In my house I can sit in my little nest. I've got my snacks, I've got my cats. If I don't like the film I can turn it off. If I'm in the middle of a haunted house, I can't get it out. And I am an absolute Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: melt and I hate it. So I think it's that controlled way of experiencing fear, stress, anxiety. And I realized quite early in my very, very long therapy journey over the years that when I had a lot of anxiety, horror was a good way of expelling some of that because I could sit down, put a film on, be scared or stressed for two hours, turn it off and go, I feel a bit better now. And none of that anxiety and stress was about anything in my life. So I found that a comfort. And over the years I've really been drawn to horror as a source of comfort. I did have a really strange period where everything upset me. I was so frightened and so scared and I would cry watching things I just couldn't, loads of my favourite films, I just couldn't do anymore. And I got rid of loads of my like horror collection because I was like, I can't do this anymore. Just go, gone. And then I sort of quietly crept back to it. And now it's all I watch. Now it's all I think about. Like horror of my personality at this point. It's quite sad. But I also don't care because if people don't want to talk to me about horror and they want to talk to me about something boring, I'll make my excuses and I'd leave and be like, I'm not interested in that sandra, sorry, bye. And I'll do something else. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: yeah, the f the came to podcast about it as well then because I spend most of my days with headphones on listening to podcasts because I don't want to listen to my own shouting brain. I will listen to something. music has too much of an emotional engagement for me. Like my brain will pick on a lyric in a song and I'll be like, that reminds me of a time of this and then I'm crying and I'm upset. So I don't listen to music very often and it's podcasts and they're all special interest related. They're all horror or neurodiversity. and I just thought, well, these lovely people talking for hours about horror films are keeping me set slightly sane. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: I'd love to talk about horror and things. Maybe I could do this. And if even one person listens and I'm that voice that helps keep them a little bit sane when they're trying to walk around Tesco and not have an absolute meltdown or trying to drown out their c coworkers in name fucking chatting about absolute bullshit like watching Love Island and you're like shut up They can just listen to me talk to myself for hours on end. and I've been doing it for over two and a half years now. I'm very proud of myself. Trevor Holland: I was about to ask you how long you've been doing it. Two and a half years, that's great. Because Sam Munster: Yeah. Trevor Holland: we were talking the other day on Instagram about the statistic about how many and I think you're right, it's about eighty percent Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: of podcasts never get past ten episodes. And this is episode ten. We're gonna we're gonna Sam Munster: And this episode You did it. Trevor Holland: we're gonna we we are gonna do it as long as it gets released, which I don't something could happen, but it will, I'm sure. But yeah, man. no, that's really good. I s I I was thinking when when I was getting ready for this episode I was thinking about horror and my own relationship with it. and why I find it so fascinating and whether that's through a neurodiverse lens or or not. but I think it's twofold for me. One is I want to feel something visceral. and I love that I love tension and and unnerving, kind of uncomfortable. Like I've got an incredibly sensitive cringe reflex. So I I will st steer away from anything that's uncomfortable from an awkwardness point of view. But I really like to but I really like Sam Munster: I love social anxiety stuff. I love it. Trevor Holland: sitting I like to sit in the uncomfortable kind of impending doom feeling. But also I'm fascinated because I am an observer, I'm fascinated by the extremes of human behavior. so watching a horror movie, whether it's probably probably this is less relevant to supernatural kind of horror, but more kind of human studies, serial killer, stuff like that. It's like this these are the things that people do to each other. And these are the way that people feel when they're in extreme situations. So the extreme rage or the extreme fear, the terror, the horror, all of those feelings that I'm fascinated by watching other people feel. albeit in a fictional capacity. But I think that's what it is. I think it's it's it's seeing extreme behaviour and then also feeling some of it myself, you know? That's what fascinates me. As as well as the actual horror itself, you're a collector, right, of physical media. So I'd like to talk to you about that because you're part of Sam Munster: Yes. please do. Trevor Holland: you're part of the physical media is not dead movement. Sam Munster: absolutely. Trevor Holland: and I I have to say I I do I I I it makes me feel a bit old, but I do still love a bit of physical media. You know, I don't read that much, but I would I would much rather read a physical book than read off a Kindle, for example. Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: But what is it that fascinates you about collecting physical media and especially when it comes to special editions of of releases with extras and lots of little trinkets and bits that come with stuff, you know, what's what is it about that? Sam Munster: I if I love a film, actually no, that's not true. Because even if I don't love a film, I want to do this, but I just like to learn. I like to learn. I am so in awe of people who can write and direct and make special effects. And do sound and stuff, and I wanna know how they did everything in the film. More so if I love it. But if I don't like a film, I still love watching the special features because I wanna know, okay, well, why did they go for this thing that I didn't like? Why did they make this decision? So I will watch three different directors' commentary tracks on a movie just so I can learn what what what went into it because I might have a newfound appreciation of the film. But well I didn't enjoy it, but I'm impressed by how X, Y, and Z listen. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: so like that's a big part of it. And it's similar to like listening to podcasts. I'm listening to people chat about something. I'm learning about the you know, may maybe it's the the messaging in the film whether they're talking about a subgenre, I'm learning stuff about film and special features, I'm learning stuff about film, which I just find fascinating. And I always have done. I've always loved seeing like behind the scenes and in the olden days when sometimes you'd get something on like a VHS and it'd be so exciting. Or you would see like behind the scenes pictures in like a book maybe because you wouldn't really see stuff on the T V as much. And I just I know it's not to like, ooh, movie magic, but it is it is magic. How people can turn all these different things into something that we can watch and enjoy. And owning things physically l like my house, it is something that I own that I can hold and I can look at and go, I have this. Whether it's because of the packaging, I've got like two or three versions of of films on DVD because I'm like, ooh, I haven't got this front cover, I love this. And never watched it, they're just on my shelf, they're just there. but sometimes I stand in front of my shelves and I feel so happy just looking at my Blu-rays and my DVDs and my videos. Loads of them I haven't watched. Because I can't be bothered to get up off the sofa, open the cupboard, take something off and then, you know, the whole steps of throwing the disc in, gear in the controller. I can't be bothered with all that. So a good proportion of the stuff I have I actually don't watch. But it doesn't matter because I bought it and it brings me immense joy. Immense joy. And that's w we could went like charity shops earlier. I mean forever like this with my neck. 'Cause I'm looking at the D V Ds on the shelves and if I find VHS you'll year like a little squeal because I found some videos so excited to look through videos now. And yeah, it's just it I I think I enjoy the dopamine of Finding physical media in the wild, just the same as like finding all the weird crap on the walls. Like it's very exciting trying to find something and then you find it. Really stupid example, but I got in my head that I had to buy a copy of Wrong Turn Two on Dv D in a shop. I could have ordered it on eBay, Amazon, any of these places, but I had to find it in the wild. It was an adventure. And it took me about two years to find a copy in a charity shop. And I burst into tears. I was so excited. So I was like, I finally found one, I finally found one. And I could watch the film I'd been waiting to see. And since I bought every copy of Wrong Turn 2 that I find, which isn't that many, but every time I find it now. I have that same excitement that I had the first time. I don't cry every time, but I'm just like, Yes, I found another copy. I've got four copies on my shelf. I do not need four copies of wrong turn two. But having four copies of wrong turn two makes me so excited because not only did I find one, I found four copies and that's cool. Trevor Holland: It's the s it's the seeking something out and then getting it. Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: It's it's yeah. I I relate to that. Having having multiple versions of the same thing 'cause it's not even about the thing, it's a it's a it's almost for me it almost feels like it's your prize, it's your trophy for for the the the act of hunting it. Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: and now you've got it and it's there on your shelf and you you may never touch it, you may ne you you may never watch it, but it's there. You you have it, you have it in your hands, it's in your home and it's like Yeah, fucking found you, mate. And it's great. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean by that. Sam Munster: with Streaming services and streaming platforms and digital downloads and things. You can have those things taken away at any time. You could pay 1499 for a digital download of a movie. And if Amazon decides they want to take it off the platform, you lose it. If you spend fifteen pounds on a D V D put it on your shelf, unless someone comes and burgles you, like no one's taken that from you. You've got that forever. And I have Less so I think people I think people are kind of understanding a little bit more now, especially with like the the announcement from Sony recently that they're not doing dig physical games anymore and people will really be upset. I think people are gearing it a bit more now about, you know, the tangibility of being able to hold something and you've got that in your hands and you can keep it safe forever, whereas if everything's in the cloud and the cloud explodes, you could have spent hundreds and thousands of pounds on games, films, books, it's all gone. You don't actually own any of it. And I like to be able to hold and own things. Trevor Holland: I kinda sit on both sides of of of that. I I I own quite a lot of physical media, but I I mainly stream and download now. I mean I've got I've got a PS five, it doesn't even have a a disk drive in it. So all all all my games that I play are digital now. I still have some physical games but I've got to play them on anymore. I like the convenience of it, but I love the tangibility, like you said, 'cause I remember back in the day, you buy a new game, you open the box and you got you got the cartridge, you've got the little booklet in it. You'd read the booklet y from cover to cover on the bus on your way home from the shop before you've even played the game. I love the stuff that comes with stuff. And and that's completely missing now. you know, whether whether that's D V D extras like you were talking about, whether that's when you when you buy a a video game you've got the bits that come with it. When you buy an album you've got the artwork and you've got the the the notes and the lyrics and all sorts of other stuff in there. Stuff that's just part of part of the package that you just won't get anymore. so that is sad. But I do like digital shit as well. Sam Munster: I mean I I brought a Kindle. Sometimes you can buy cool books that you've been meaning to read for 99p. Great. And if I really like it, I'll look out for a copy in a charity shop and I'll pick it up. And then maybe I'll have it all my shelves as well. So like for books and things I find that quite handy. and I do I do listen to the music digitally, I listen to podcasts digitally, but I also have like just to my right, I have a a stack of records. Total old records, really old. I've still got all my CDs from when I first started buying CDs when I was ten. I've still got a handful of cartettes. I do have stuff to play them all on. So if I wanted to, I could. And I do every now and then I'm like, do you know what? I want to put some music on, but I wanna listen to it on a record because it sounds better. And there's certain records that when you plop the needle on and you get a little bit of crackle, they just sound infinitely better than they would sticking them on like Spotify or YouTube or wherever, like music streaming platform. I don't want the cleaned up version. I want the record I've got in my collection that is from nineteen fifty something. And God knows how many people have owned and played this record over the years. And it might have some little like scratches in it. It might have loads of dust on it. But like you said, like the the history of things, where's where's our record been? I especially like it when there's a handwritten note on there of like, you know, to so and so happy birthday or like John's record. a lot of the like random gubbins I buy have handwritten notes on them as well. Like I've got a cross stitch I bought recently that has the date it was completed and the lady's name who made it on the back. Trevor Holland: I love that. Sam Munster: and I think she finished it in the eighties and the anniversary of it is coming up, so I feel like I need to give it a little party. It was the thirtieth of August she finished it. So I'm like, that's amazing. I've got something that This lady made fifty years ago, no, forty years ago, I can't do maths. and I was in my house. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes it's it's it's it becomes part part of its identity, have having yeah, I know what you mean. It's it's it's have stuff that's that's kind of what I was talking about with the passage of time. It's stuff that's got a story attached to it, stuff that's got a a history and it's you can almost feel that history when you touch it. I love it. We it would be remiss of me to not talk about neurodiversity, I suppose, on this podcast. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about your brain. Sam Munster: God. Not that not that thing. Fuck that guy. yeah, I hate my brain. we we don't have a very good relationship. I struggled with like anxiety and depression and stuff since I was about sixteen, seventeen. Finally went to go and see a doctor when I was 18 and they went, Cool, you're depressed as fuck, you you've got anxiety, give it some meds. So I've been medicated almost consistently about a couple of periods of going, This really isn't doing anything. And stopping taking them, then going mental and going back Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: on them. and I've had therapy from all sorts of different private therapists. And work appointed to therapists, NHS canceling, and nothing's ever stuck. One lady did say when I was about nineteen, twenty, she said, you could have ADHD' and I was like, No. because my only knowledge of ADHD at that time was hyperactive little boys. And she didn't but she didn't do anything with it. She didn't say, I'll refer you for assessment or here's some information.' She just mentioned it casually. And over the years, different mental health practitioners have sort of gone, well, I can't deal with you. You are too complex. Okay, you probably got bipolar and this and this and this. And I've just gone, okay. And then just been released into the wild with the information that I could have a whole bunch of things wrong with me, that I need false psychiatric assessment, and then nothing happens. And I've got to keep going to my doctor going, Well, this lady said I need psychiatric assessment and that I might have this thing and this thing, but what do I do now? Like, can you help? And it wasn't until probably around 2020, saying there's lots of people, we were all spending more time at home, more time on our phones, and I was getting loads of stuff in my feed from TikTok and Instagram of people going, I think I'm I think I'm neurodivergent. And watching these videos of people talking about ADHD and what that'll look like in adult females and I was like, shit. This is what's wrong with me. I've spent my entire life going, what the fuck is wrong with me? And people were saying to me, What the fuck is wrong with you? And I was like, I think it's I think it's this. So I went to see my doctor. There was no waiting list in my area at the time. It was a waiting list to be on a waiting list once that was created. So I just had Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: to keep going back and go. Any any movement with that? Anything happening? And bless him, my GP was a psychiatrist at one point. So he he was very knowledgeable and he was trying to figure out a way of prescribing me medication that would have a similar effect to ADHD meds. Through a sort of like backdoor method of being like, well, if I if I prescribe this and this, this will have a similar effect. But luckily, the survey is sort of picked up in the area, they got the funding, they got it going. so that was long wait. I think it took about two, three years from the waitingness being activated to actually physically seeing someone and talking to somebody. because there was just such a backlog because in my area of of South Wales we didn't have a service. So like I said, there's a waiting list to be on a waiting list. and in that time both me and my sister have both gone, Hmm, yeah, we're a bit we're there's something there's not something quite right here. Like we've We've both got ADHD because I I'd spoken to my sister and I was like, Hey, I think I might have ADHD and she was like, I've literally just like two days ago had a diagnosis. So she was lucky she had private health care. Her workplace just went, Okay. She had an appointment with a psychiatrist and like That she had her diagnosis. So she was That's really weird that you brought that up because I've literally just got my diagnosis and I have ADHD. So she was like, You absolutely do, you are worse than me. Like said with love, you are worse than me, you do. So we spoke about that a lot and told my mum, and my mum was like, No, you don't. She was a teacher. So her experience again of being hyperactive little boys, and she was No, you don't have ADHD. And I was like, I think I do. But it wasn't my news to disclose to my mum that my sister's had a diagnosis. And I was really upset that my mum was so dismissive of me. and it's not your fault. She's been trained in work of how to spot ADHD and what the traits are and things, but she's not being trained for adult women. She's been trained for for children when she was a primary school teacher. And my sister then took one for the team and said to my mum, I wasn't gonna say anything because it doesn't make any difference, but I have ADHD. Basically did a PowerPoint presentation on like how me and her present as women with ADHD and my mum was like, okay, yeah that makes a lot of sense now. She has ADHD, she's just in denial about it. Sorry Julie. And yeah, as me and my sister were doing all this research whilst we were waiting for my diagnosis, that the old chestnut of special interest about being neurodivergent, gotta learn everything we possibly can. My sister was like, I think you might be autistic. And I was like, No, I'm not, because my my knowledge of autism was well Heine's autism and and people who have like physical issues as a result of their autism. And I was like, no, that's not me. But went off and did a little bit of research, learned a bit more, and I was like, shit. I think I'm autistic. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: And all of a sudden my entire life made sense of that constant push and pull in my brain that just will not shut up of like, do this thing, no, do this thing. And then just being stuck like I felt today with I've got like I know it's I know it's the silly like internet thing of like inside you are two wolves, but inside you are two wolves. One of them botheristic and one of them's ADHD and they're arguing all the fucking time. so yeah, it I didn't get my diagnosis until I was thirty six. So that was three years ago. and even though I started the diagnosis journey for ADHD first, I got diagnosed with autism quicker because there was like a NHS funded but sort of standalone autism assessment service in South Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: Wales. So the process with them from first appointment to diagnosis was like three months, I think. And it was it was very quick. Trevor Holland: wow. Okay. Sam Munster: but that in itself was a big like existential processing of like am I making this up? Have I just like imagined that I do all these things? And I so worried that I wasn't autistic enough because my friend had three assessment appointments. I had to have a fourth assessment appointment, a critical one in the room with somebody. And I was like, well my friend didn't have to do that. She must be more autistic than me. Maybe I'm not autistic enough to be autistic. And the woman said as soon as I got it, she knew I was autistic before she'd even done the whole assessment. so that was that was nice to have that validation, but I didn't get my ADHD diagnosis because slow service is slow until December twenty twenty five. No. Yeah. twenty four. It was anyway, it was a long time after. So I've around now it will be three years since since being diagnosed. I should find out when the anniversary was because I had a party on the first anniversary to celebrate being autistic for a whole year, even though I've been autistic my whole life. sorry, that was really rambly, hello. Trevor Holland: That's all right. That's all that's exactly what I asked you to do. so The the autism diagnosis, interestingly, do you recollect or or did the person tell you what it was that made them say, yeah, she is autistic before anything else had happened? Sam Munster: When when she came in, no, when I went in, she we had to go up some stairs and I sometimes a bit late, but I went on like a rant about the fact that all the people driving in front of me were driving really slow and that I had somewhere important to be and they were making me slow, and did they not realize the impact they were having on me? And then She was like, right, okay. And then I noticed she had a tattoo on her foot of a little jigsaw puzzle piece. And I was like, you have a tattoo of a jigsaw puzzle piece. Are you autistic? Or have you got somebody in your family? And I just like started whittering on. And then when we sat down then in the room and I had to do those silly activities, like make a story with a peg and a load of random shit. It's I didn't I was thinking, no, I'm being too normal here and when I read the notes from the session I was like, fucking hell. Like she she picked up Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: so many traits from it and Yeah, it's it's weird, like obviously they know what to look for and I thought, I'm I'm I'm not gonna get a diagnosis out of this. I'm being I'm masking too much, I'm being too normal here. But the the amount of things she picked up on that I was doing subconsciously was hilarious. Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: Like I I she was trying to ask me questions and I didn't even notice because I was too busy info dumping at her about a special interest. But I picked up from a tiny, tiny, tiny part of a picture that she showed me and asked me to talk about. So I was like, okay, I didn't even notice that she was trying to pick me off topic. I was just talking at her about something. Trevor Holland: What what went through your mind when you were given that validation? So the actually rewind. You got your you got your autism diagnosis and then how long after that did you get your ADHD diagnosis? Okay. Sam Munster: I think it's a year and a half. It was a long time. Just because it took such a long time at every stage from like the initial, like the disco one, I think the paperwork thing. And then, you know, it just took a long time to go through all the all the steps. and when I had my final appointment, even though I'd had all my like assessment phone calls with all the millions of questions and things. I wasn't actually sure if I'd been given a diagnosis because the guy was just talking and he didn't go, you have ADHD. So I ended up having to like phone my doctors a couple of days later and say, Is there a note on like a letter or a note or something on my file from this guy? And they like, Yeah, why? And I was like, Does it say I've got ADHD on there? 'Cause they actually didn't tell me. I had to find out that way 'cause he didn't say, You have ADHD. So again, that was something else that I got like in my head about because he didn't say it that bluntly to me. He just sort of started talking about medication and things and I was like, Well, if he's talking about med sign, you must have ADHD, but he hasn't actually said you have ADHD. So I was just really confused by the whole thing. Trevor Holland: that's bollocks in it. I mean you you need w we we need information to be quite clear. And if of all the places to have a vague situation where no one's telling you the Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: actual black and white of the situation, it's there for fuck's sake. And to go to an assessment and not be told at the assessment what the outcome of the assessment is. That's mental. Sam Munster: Yeah, and like this is so funny because obviously I have to wait so much longer for the ADHD one than the the autism one that every now and then I need to remember and I'd be like, I haven't heard anything and it's been like a year and a half. So I'd phone up and be like, Hello, am I still on the waiting list? They'd be like, Yep, still on the waiting list. We'll we'll let you know and they'd say sometimes like, you know, if you haven't heard anything in another six months, let us know and like, I'm gonna forget it and those. Months to let you know, please, please, please ring me or send me a letter or something. So the fact that I felt like I had to keep chasing up all the time as well for the service that is supposed to be for people who forget things a lot. And I have been offered various courses and different like support things, and they've been so woefully. inadequate for neurodivergent people. It is beyond belief. I ended up sending the one it was like a living with ADHD course and it was supposed to be like six weeks and it was practical skills and tools and put wait and the information they gave beforehand and the way it was all set up was just so bad that I ended up sending them a massive email because I couldn't get to where I needed to go. because of the venue, the information they sent wasn't good enough. SatNab wasn't working. I drove round for forty-five minutes, had an absolute mouth done because I couldn't get to the location. And I was trying to phone them to say, you know, I can't I can't get here. What do I do? They weren't answering the phone. So in the end I just turned around and went home. And I managed to get through to someone to say, look, why you've emailed there's so shit. that I can't get to to the course. I've had an absolute meltdown over the fact that I haven't been able to get here. I've wasted, you know, I drove 45 minutes to get to this place and then I just have to turn around and drive back for so it's like nearly two hours out of that house. And ended up sending them a massive email being like, considering this course is is for newer divergent people. You've neglected to think about the needs of the newer divergent people. come in and they were like, we just assumed most people would come on the bus. And I was like, well, I I live in a town 45 minutes away. I I am able to drive and I'd rather drive than get a public transport because I've got my own little space. I left with plenty of time to get in nice and early and find it. But because the fat nav couldn't it was basically like a venue that was like inside a park, but we wouldn't allow to drive into the park. And it was on a main road, so it was like, how the fuck do I get it? And there was nothing on the information they said on there, like this is where it is, it's near this bus stop. But there was no information there about like, well, how'd you get it by a car? And they said, when they did come back to me, they were like, yeah, well, we assumed most people are local, so they'd know. And I said, Well, my address is on my information. You can see I live 45 minutes away. I I don't come to this town, I don't know anything about it. How do you expect me to know? And I never did the course because I was just so upset after that like first experience. I just never I was just like, no, thank you, I'm not coming. If you do like an online one at home, I'll do that, but I'm not I'm not going 'cause I was I was a mess, like hysterical and sort of trying to drive at the same time, which is not optimal. so I could like pull over and have a little calm down. So yeah, it's it's weird how things aren't set up for us even after we've got a diagnosis. Trevor Holland: When when stuff like that happens to me, I start to analyse it and start to question whether it's part of the test or part of the course. You know, like if I was going to that course and I found it really difficult to get there, I'm like, I wonder if this is part of it? Yeah, like if you get here you've passed the first first test is getting here. like when I when I had my autism assessment, the at the clinic I went to, the first thing that happened when I went into the room was the guy sat down and the lights were off and I just said, Can I turn the lights on, please? He's like, Yeah, if you want. Sam Munster: You failed, you put the big light on. Trevor Holland: Right, right. He's like he's like yeah, if you if if if you want to. So okay. So I turned the lights on and I thought, fuck. That he's gonna tell me I'm not autistic because I don't mind having the light on. or but the opposite was the case. It's like I don't wanna sit in a fucking dark room. People turn the light on when you come into a room. That's just what you do. Sam Munster: Mm. Trevor Holland: but I was thinking that everything was part I was analyzing every part of it thinking, this is gonna be part of it. This is gonna be part of the test. He's gonna write down something about you turning the light on, isn't he? Yeah. that sucks. So going back to actually getting the diagnosis, we'll go back to the autism diagnosis. What what changed for you that day? You know, what what I'm always interested to hear about people's processes from getting that information, you are autistic, and then the aftermath of that for the the the days and weeks that follow, what happens when when you're presented with that. So in your case, what what happened? Sam Munster: It gave me that validation that I needed that once I'd sort of learned about autism and ADHD and the intersection of Aud, I knew that everything made sense. for why my entire life I felt like an alien, that I wasn't a human. I just would feel like I'd I ended up here and I didn't know what anyone was doing and why they were doing it. And straight away just having that yes your autistic phone call, I was in in a job that I was working in at the time, sort of like answered the phone at my desk and I was like, my God and I got up and ran out and was crying because I was just so relieved. 'Cause I was so scared they'd no, you're not autistic and then what what would happen then? Like wha what's wrong with me if if I'm not if I'm not autistic, what's wrong with me? Trevor Holland: Right. Sam Munster: And I was so scared that that would be what the outcome would be. but it wasn't thankfully. So I was just so validated and started the process. I started very slowly like the process of unmasking because I was like, I know, I know I am ADHD but that was what I needed to have the permission, I guess, to go, practice. I am being who I am. I'm doing what I want to do and not not performing anymore to try and be normal and fit in with everybody. that did not really go down well. lots of people, I know I people talked about this with people on the episode before about like you become more autistic, you become more ADHD. and all of a sudden people are like, well, you always used to be able to do that. Well you always used to cope okay with this. And it's like you don't know how much mental and physical energy it took to be okay or outwardly okay at that thing. so I just stopped being okay and people found that uncomfortable. the job that I was working in, I did tell them when I started that I might have some appointments because I was going through autism and ADHD. I didn't tell them in the interview because I didn't have a diagnosis to disclose. But once I Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: started I was like, you know, I might have some appointments. And yeah, they got annoyed at me when I had my diagnosis. Like as one of the things they said to me was, like, well, you didn't tell us about that at the start. And it's like, Well, would you morrow giving me the job because you you can't do that? and they even said to me in the interview that they liked how like crazy I was because they were just very it was a very casual, very casual interview, very chatty. We were just you know, chatting shit basically whilst also talking about the job. And they were like, you will sit in perfect during everyone's bonkers kind of thing. Like we're all mad here. and I was like, just you wait. and quite quickly I found it overstimulating as a job. It I love the job itself. It was perfect for someone like me because it had routine. You would do the same thing the same time every day, but within those individual tasks, it would change every day. So I knew what I had to do, but there was always something to keep me interested. And part of it was investigating errors. I felt like a little detective. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: I was having such a nice time. And like every time I would find Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: the error, I'd be like, Yes, I am a genius. And it just scratched something in my brain. But the work environment was incredibly overwhelming. it was always like too cold or too hot with the acron. There were fluorescent lights, there were a million conversations going on at once. Where they'd sat me, I was by the door for the room for HR, so there were people back and forth, back and forth, back and forth all the time. And also I was in the eye line of like where the kitchen was in on our floor, so they were constantly people. Constantly distracted and overwhelmed and overstimulated. And yeah, I started just saying to people, actually, can I have a bit more accommodation? Because I have my diagnosis now. I feel emboldened to ask you, please can I wear headphones at my desk? Please can I sit somewhere more quiet? And I remember going to the HR lady and saying, What accommodations can you offer for me to make things easier? And they like, I don't know, what do you want? And I was like, Well, I don't know. I don't I've not been autistic before. I don't know what I'm allowed to ask for. and they did. They bought me they bought me some headphones and they moved my desk. But the more I got distressed and upset on a daily basis because of the environment. And just how fucking everyone was not everyone, they were a handful of nice people, but a lot of them were absolute bastards. They were so neurotypical and focused on themselves and their own advancement in work looking important. They would throw the job hierarchy at all the time. And I'd be I don't give a shit that that guy's the CEO. Like he spoke to me like shit. Like I don't care. and I Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: I wouldn't wouldn't lick the arse of my senior managers. I talked to them the same as everybody else and they didn't like that. And I put a target on my head by allowing myself to be more vocal about my feelings. And they fired me in the end. they said that it was under poor performance as part of my probation period. But they my line manager, she she fought for me to have an extension on my probation and they gave me another three months. They said we can have another three months and we will excuse me. we'll do an action plan with you. to get your performance up to a point where you know you can meet meet all of the targets. And I was like, right, yeah, thank you. Appreciate that. And I kept saying to them, the working environment has affected me and it's distracting me. And that's why I'm not working as fast as as I could do. But also I'm working as fast as I can, making sure I get everything right. I don't want to make mistakes as a job in finance. So If you make a mistake, it's a big mistake. We were dealing with like transfers of like hundreds and thousands of pounds, millions of pounds at times. I didn't want to make a mistake. So I said either I do it fast or I do it good and right and a little bit slower. Like it's just you gotta decide what you want from me. And three weeks into my three month extension, they said, You're not hitting your target. We're gonna let you go. But every day for about three weeks I ask them for the action plan and what my targets were so I could see so I knew I was working towards and it they'd always be an excuse. I can't log in on this computer in this meeting room. so and so's taking it to adjust something. You know, there's always excuses. And the day they fired me, I just knew all day. We pick up on everything, don't we? We we know we pick up on those microaggressions, those tiny little body language changes. I knew. And I said to one of the girls, I'm getting fired this afternoon. She was like, Don't be dads. And I was like, No, they're gonna fire me this afternoon, and I know. And it was month end and it was the first month that I got all of the reports I had to do for months end in maybe three months, but I got them done before the deadline. And I was so proud of myself. I got all of the work done for the day that I needed to do. And I was I was just like, Yes, I fucking nailed this today. But while also knowing they were gonna fire me. And they didn't invite me to a catch up meeting until after the point that I'd given them all of my month end reports. All of a sudden they needed a meeting and I sat down in the room with the HR lady who was very nice and very supportive, but ultimately her job was to protect the business, not me. And I said, You guys gonna fire me now, aren't you? And she was like, No, no, no, no. Well, you know, wait wait for your manager, we need to have a chat. And I was like, No, I know you're going to. And she walked in, sat down and was like, Yeah, so we're letting you go. You can stay in till the end of the day if you want to, and we're gonna pay you like three weeks gardening leave. And I just went, Fuck you. I said I fucking knew you were gonna you were gonna fire me. I said, you waited until I finished all of my work for the day and submitted all my month and reports and then you shared your business meeting. And they were like, no, no, no, we weren't sure if we could get a meeting room, all these things. I was bullshit. Bullshit. I said, I'd known all day that you were gonna fire me. So thanks for that. I'm going and just walked in got all my stuff from my desk and like I stormed back to Back to my desk and started like packing stuff up and people were like, Sam, what are you doing? I was I've been fired. They were like, Ha ha ha ha I was like, No, they fired me. And the one girl I'd said to that morning, she was like, Did they actually fire you? I was Yeah, they've just told me that I fired. And she was like, Why have they fired you for? And I said, Poor performance, apparently. And like the boy who's been training me And shadowing me and working with me is like, you're great. You picked this up quicker than I did. You picked this up quicker than that guy did. You know, you you're great at this job. But they just didn't like me because I challenged their hierarchy. I called them out when they say, you know, you say things sometimes that are inappropriate in a business environment. You shouldn't be saying that. And I'd say, Well, how am I supposed to gauge what is appropriate when The other day, this line manager said this in front of everybody. So I thought what I said was much lower than that on like an inappropriate level. And they'd say, well, you know, you can't say this and you can't say that. And I'd I'd grasp them up to each other. The managers would say things like, it's not a toxic work environment. There's none of that going on. And I said, Yesterday, when she was working from home, You said this about her and slagged her off, and then last week she said this about you and I would like I just repeated everything that everyone would say because they didn't think I could cheer them and they didn't think I was listening. I was taking everything in and I would regurgitate it to them when they didn't like that at all. Anya, that's why they fired me under the guise of poor performance. so like yeah that pain I have my diagnosis in the August, like got fired in the October. because I was happy to have a diagnosis, but having that permission to behave more in the way that I needed to to feel comfortable in myself led to me getting fired. Because I was working in an office environment with a bunch of normal people who at first they all thought I was brilliant. They were like, my gosh, she's so quirky, she's so weird and then it got to the point where Like some of them I was friends with and we would have lunch together and people would say, my god, this one girl, she doesn't like anybody, she doesn't talk to anybody in the kitchen, she doesn't make small talk with anybody, she never goes out for lunch with anybody, but she's hanging out with you, like what the heck? And I was like, Mm, I don't know, I'm just nice and cool, I guess. And then she decided overnight one day she didn't like me anymore. Don't know what it was. and then everyone else slowly started not liking me anymore. And they were a little team of like not not new I don't think any of them were well maybe one of them, but I don't think they were newer divergent. There was a little group that was sort of like on the edges of all of the teams. They didn't want to buy into the bullshit, they didn't want to join in. And they were all absolutely zooming when I got fired. And apparently like the atmosphere in the office the next day nobody was talking. nobody would talk to any of the senior managers 'cause they were so upset that they fired me. So like all the senior team were all like, meh meh like with each other, but all the other teams, they were all just so mad because they were so upset that they just fired me out of nowhere. But I like I told them I knew. I knew they were firing me that day. I just knew. And they they couldn't fire me for being autistic, but they could fire me for poor performance. that they couldn't prove because they never gave me a plan or like I said I don't know how you can mark me on these things because you've never given me like KPIs of like this has to be done this way. This this guidelines this needs to be done by half past nine. But there was never any sort of monitoring of that to be like, okay, so the last month you hit that target. ninety percent of the time. There's none of that, but when it was convenient to fire me, it was really important. But no proof. So that sort of as happy as I was to have my diagnosis, it didn't sort of bring my will crashing down around me. in that I had s source who recently become single. the relationship I'd been in for like thirteen years, been married for nearly ten years, ended because I just couldn't do it anymore. Again, part of the burnout on overwhelm I was dealing with. I was a single parent now and I own a house and I've got to still do all those grown up things that you're supposed to do. That I'd just been fired. Like, what the fuck was I gonna do? And like, real talk. I was phoning at the local hospital for sad people and saying, Do you like I wanted to see if you could have walk ins, like, could I admit myself? Because I was just so I just didn't know what to do. Didn't know what to do with myself. They didn't answer the phone and I was like, shit, what do I do now? So I phoned my mum and I have to go and sit. like a non verbal little husk on my mom sofa because I didn't make any plans to end my life where I just needed to be dead. And I was just like, I don't know what I'm gonna do because I can't carry on like this anymore. and it was really it was really difficult, really, really difficult. And it wasn't because of the autism, but because of the way I guess society people had reacted to it and then getting fired because of disclosing that I was autistic and allowing myself to behave more autistic. lost me my job. And then the security of, you know, my mortgage and can I feed my kid now? Can I you know, can I keep clothes on my back and put the heat in on as a direct result of getting my diagnosis, I guess. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: Is a lot. Trevor Holland: Yeah. I mean, That that that that that employer was fully taking the piss. Sam Munster: they were awful. And that team has the biggest staff turnover rate in the entire organization because they're horrible, horrible bastards to everybody. Like the one one girl started while I was there and she left halfway through the day and never came back because it was just such a shit, horrible work environment. She just knew she didn't want to be there. It was awful. Trevor Holland: It it it's the it's the agreeing to give you extra time and then not giving you that extra time and then not giving you what you needed to do what you needed to do in that extra time Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: that fuck and you you're screwed as well because you're still on probation, so you couldn't really do much about it. I mean, if you from a from a from a kind of unfair dismissal point of view at least. and they probably knew that. Sam Munster: Yeah. Trevor Holland: But they also knew that they they they also knew that they needed to They needed to give a reason and they needed to manufacture one. It's that that that's the thing that always gets me because people talk about are we not allowed to not not hire somebody because of a disability, or you're not you're not allowed to fire someone because of a disability. No, you're not allowed to say that that's why you're doing it. But it's but that doesn't stop people from doing it. They just don't say that that's why they've done it. There's no difference. They're still doing it. They're just finding another Sam Munster: Like my team, Trevor Holland: w reason. Sam Munster: my team was carrying like five vacancies. They were supposed to be three people doing my job when there were two of us doing it. and they have currently had a vacancy for it because we had too much work to be able to do it. And if I doesn't tell you that it wasn't a whole surely somebody who could improve. over time with a bit more like focus and training and some accommodations would be better than having a brand new person in and having to train them up to speed. But you know, the it wasn't anything to do with me and my autism. It it was about poor performance and it's like, well if you're carrying vacancies, you can't afford to be getting rid of people who are working a bit too slow. It wasn't mistakes, it was speed. And that was literally it. They my whole performance was speed related. Which is so silly. Trevor Holland: So you obviously went through a dark period after that. Sam Munster: Mm-hmm. Trevor Holland: And then then what what happened? Sam Munster: I just didn't know what to do. I was sort of just like shit. I knew I was getting like two or three weeks, I can't remember now, two or three weeks like gardening me. So I knew I was gonna have like a couple of weeks more pay, but I just didn't know what to do. I was like, I know I need a job because I need to pay my bills, I need to feed my kid, I need to feed myself. but I genuinely don't know what I can do. I know I can't work in an office again. I cannot put myself mentally through that overstimulation. I was, you know, fully in a burnout period that I've been in for a good year, year and a half. and I was, you know, real bad by this point. And I was like, I I just can't I remember talking to my mum, who was amazing and very supportive, but who's thought just saying, we just gotta go do whatever Whatever job you get, like you're just gonna have to make it work. And she kept sending me jobs all the time. What about this one? What about this one? And there were like good, nice jobs. but I I had to keep going back and going, Well, I could do this job, but it's office-based and it is an hour away. I can't deal with the committee anymore, I can't deal with sitting in an office anymore. So I just I had many excuses, but I felt justified in my excuses at this point because I could say, Well The way my brain works and the way I am right now, I cannot cope with that. and I was really lucky that one day my parents worried about me, they took me out for the afternoon. and we just went to a little coffee shop and had like coffee and cake. And whilst we were there, my parents had a text message from they were they are the directors of like the local village at all. And then a text message from the cleaner saying, handing them my notice, I'll work a week, but I'm not, I'm not going back to work. And they were like, bloody hell, we've lost the cleaner. And I said, I'll be a cleaner. And they were like, Well, really? And I like, Yeah, I need money. And it's one of the best things I've ever done. because it allowed me to still get up every well not every day, but still get up five days a week and go out to work. But I mostly work by myself, got my headphones on, I work for a couple of hours and then I go the rest of the day to recover or go out and do something. and I have picked up quite a couple of like private clients every now and then as well. And they're sort of like safe, trusted people. Because I don't don't want to just go into any old person's home. It's friends of friends will say, so and so needs an extra clean, can you come for two hours and give the you know, give the carpets a good hoover and clean the bathrooms and I'm like, Yeah, great. So I sort of do a bit of ad hoc work when I've got the energy basically. and mention because I I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but I do receive benefits. when I when I told the job center that I'd been fired and I was like I don't know what to do and mentioned that I had autism, they were like, well we'll give you they were so nice and positive about it. They were we'll give you a a an assessment because you you you may have limited capability for work. And I was like I honestly genuinely feel like right now I have limited capability for work. I really do. I can't imagine going to work full time because of how dreadful I feel on a daily basis. And they did, they just like that, just give me this assessment. They went, Yeah, there you go. Here's some benefits. You're allowed to work part time, which point I had already started doing the clean in. And I was like, this could actually work. really well for me and I do I do struggle. over the years I've had huge amounts of debt from the A PhD impulsivity of going, I'm gonna put this on my credit card, I'm gonna put this on my credit card, then you try and get a a grip on it by doing a balance transfer. You know I'll pay this off before the interest kicks in and then you forget and just spirals. So I've had loads of problems with debt over the years. but being thrown into a situation where I am surviving week by week. to you know do my food shop and things, I can't spend money like I used to. So it has helped me curb that kind of spending. But I do Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: still do things like I did today and go to the reuse center and I spent fifteen pound on stuff that I didn't need. I'll just buy less stuff when I go food shopping next to sort of like balance that out. So I do struggle week by week. I it's not the these people on benefits. They're sitting around in the house all day with all their money, looking for them buying this, look for them buying that. I still work because if I didn't work, I I wouldn't be able to to buy food. I'm behind all my gas on electric bills because is extortionate even when you don't put the heat in it on because you can't afford to. like if I'm in the house on my own, if my if my kid is with their dad, I don't put the heat in on. I just put as many jumpers on as I can in the winter because I can't afford to put it on. So I'm still making sacrifices. I'm not living some kind of like lavish lifestyle because I'm on benefits. And I try and talk about that as much as I can because I think a lot of people are so angry about benefits and demonising benefits and there's a lot of conversation in the media at the moment about all these people with ADHD getting benefits, it's ridiculous, it's putting too much strain on the on the system. And what someone said to me which made me feel less guilty about receiving benefits was It's not a handout, it's an equalizer. And I was like Okay, and that made me feel a little bit more comfortable because I feel guilty all the time that I'm having money to be able to like pay my bills and feed my child and I don't take the pace and stay home. I still go and work and I register as self employed and I have to do all the things that self employed people do, like submit in my expenses and throwing my earnings in and doing all my tax stuff. Because if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be able to afford to eat. I just wouldn't. and also I don't want to as much as I don't care what society thinks, I also don't want to be seen by society as gold scum benefits person. You know, all these really negative things that people say about people who receive benefits. But actually I can't fucking leave my house. most days a week at the moment. I should be starting work at half past eight. Most of the time I get there is eleven o'clock. Today I got there at eleven o'clock. I couldn't actually clean because it was a class there. I sat in the park for forty five minutes. Just stuck. I didn't know what to do because I was like I've come here to work and I I knew when I came here I wouldn't be able to work because there would be people here. So I don't know why I'm here, I guess I'll go home. But I just sat there for 45 minutes and like that has such a knock on impact on everything in my day. And then I like I said to you before we started recording, I ended up then telling the person that I was supposed to go into their house to give them a quick clean. I can't come because I was just stuck. And I try and talk about these things as much as possible because I think people just think of people with ADHD as like, they're so silly, they keep losing their keys, they keep losing their phones. But it's fucking debilitating. This is me medicated and I still cannot get out of bed. I can't just get up shower and leave. I fanny round doing all sorts of stuff because I'm like, I need to do this, I need to do this. Or I will sit and just completely lose forty five minutes disassociating. Or sitting in my car and I'm just there's no thoughts in there, I'm just scrolling. And I use so much time every single day to just be in stuck. And Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sam Munster: it is disabling. It is a disability. And I'm I've had a lot of like internalizabilism about that and that's something I've been working on with my therapist of like you actually have something wrong with your brain. Your brain does not work in the same way as other people and I've got lots of like physical comorbidities as well. that of course because I'm a woman I can't get diagnosed. but I probably would qualify for like the physical side of the disability stuff if I go all those things diagnosed as well because I struggle every day. And again, that's because I'm autistic. There are so many comorbidities of physical things like L'Anlos syndrome, POTS, loads of things that are very common in neurodivergent people that then affect me physically as well as mentally. And I'm just so fucking tired all the time. All the time. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: If I miss my ADHD meds one day I don't feel like I've got any last focus, but I physically cannot get through the day without having a nap. Before I started on the med, every day I'd have to have a nap of an hour to two hours and I'd still be exhausted for the rest of the day because I physically couldn't keep my eyes open. And the metal fanaday has helped with that, but I don't feel like I've got any energy or focus. I just managed to get through the day without needing a nap, which I don't understand how that works, but okay, I'll take it. Trevor Holland: It it's so I I always I I'm acute I think I've mentioned this before, but I'm always accused of plain devil's advocate, but I think that's just because I like to try and have a broad way of thinking about things and I like to see things from e every point of view to understand it better. so I I tried to think why people are the way they are excuse me when it comes to those sorts of attitudes around ADHD and autism, those those attitudes of you know, being a benefit scrounder or or or you know Pull your socks up, get a grip, you know, or the old man up. Just just these things that people say. It's so fucking difficult to explain. I think that's part of the problem. It's so difficult to explain. It's so difficult for for neurotypical people to understand it properly. Unless you've lived it, you have no way of understanding it. Because it's invisible. Because you're looking at somebody who can do most of the things that most people can do. Right? We can do it. But there is such a cost to it. It's not like you i if you had a a physical disability or if if if if I had higher support needs, in a way it would be easier for people to understand. But because you can speak to me and you can see me and for the most part you wouldn't have a fucking clue that I have a disability. It's so hard for those people to then accept that there are things that I just cannot do. You know what mean? Because it's it's it's so diff it's n it's not tangible for them. It's barely tangible for me most of the time. Because I'm still trying to understand it myself. I've still got imposter syndrome. I've got fucking diagnoses coming out of my ass, but I'm still questioning it every day. I still feel well, obviously I'm I I must be pretending. I've got so I'm rattling like a fucking castanet with all the medication that I take. And I spend so much of my time Absolutely just flawed with fatigue, and I'm thinking so much, thinking so much, my brain is tired, everything is tired because everything is so much harder, everything takes so much more energy. Just because I can do it, it doesn't mean it's easy to do it. It's everything comes at a price, and I'm barely holding on in terms of working full time by the skin of my teeth. I'm holding on by the skin of my teeth at the moment. Luckily I'm in a position where I've got an employer who who is nothing like the one that you that you have experience of because th they you know they're not perfect but they are they are making allowances and making reasonable adjustments and they are giving me a bit of leeway. But It's so I'm so fucking tired, Sam. Jesus Christ. I think that's the thing that I just that's the prevailing feeling. I'm just so tired. I can't I can't. And I I I run out of battery so quickly. You know, if you catch me in the right if if all the stars align and everything's just as it should, you know, everything's perfect, conditions are perfect. I will basically outperform everybody at work for a couple of hours. That's all you'll get out of me though. But there are some days I can I I can barely keep my eyes open all day. Because everything is just running at hundred miles an hour all day, every day. And and because we are sponges. You can't turn it off. You can't turn off the fucking stimulation. You can't just say, I'm not gonna listen to that noise. You're not gonna it's there. Every single fucking sound, every single smell, everything you see, everything, you're just being t it's like all your pores are open all the time and you're just taking all of this and you're expected to still w walk through the world and do other stuff when you're just being bombarded by from every single angle. It's so loud. How are you supposed to do it? And that's what I don't so on one hand I sympathize in a way. with people who don't understand it because it's impossible to understand unless you've lived it. But also please just please just try to think that there's a bit more to it than what's on the surface. And also Look, I live my life on social media a lot of the time now. it comes with the territory for what with what I'm doing. But yeah, there's a lot of shit on social media about how quirky and funny it is to be neurodivergent. And look, there are certain aspects of it that can be somewhat amusing sometimes. Yeah, I lose shit. But there's so much more to it. Sam Munster: I get I get really distressed by by losing stuff because I get so frustrated that I'm just like I can't believe I fucking lost this thing again and I do get really distressed by it and like outwardly to people I think like it's like funny and it's like you're so quirky and random. my god, like someone said to me yesterday, she was like, my god, Sam, you're so funny. And I was like, thanks, it's the autism. because I'm just so like deadpan and blunt with how I deliver things, I do use a lot of sarcasm, but a lot of the time I will just outright say things to people. And I'm not trying to be mean and there's like a you know, tongue in cheek and having a bit of you know, being a bit cheeky. But People I think people I rub I do definitely rub people up their own way and she was like, no, you just you just funny and I was like and the other answer I always give is thanks, it's all the trauma. and she was like, Do you not think you're funny? I was No, I think I'm fucking hilarious. Like I make myself laugh so hard all the time. I think I'm so funny. But I was like, most people don't think I'm funny. Like they just sort of go and like nervously laugh at me. but it's like saying about that being tired, what compounds that issue is the constant explaining to people why you're so tired, which then makes you more tired. And like even my own mum, like I said, she's fantastic and she's so supportive. But I say things to her all the time like, yeah, I'm not I'm not going to that like we both sing in a choir. And I'll happily go and do a concert. But if we do a booking at a party or a wedding, I'm I'm a flat, flat no. There's no conversation there, it's just no. I'm not doing a party or a wedding. But I will come to a concert where I know we'll get up on some stage and we'll sing and then we'll go home. Great. And when I say that, I'm not doing that, and she's like, Well, why? And I'm like, I'm just I'm just not, I can't I can't do that. And she's like, well. Some people might say that they see you do an XYZ. So like I'm very lucky I get invited to like media events and press nights and different things. They're very overwhelming. I put my little mask on and I sort of get you know, I I stand in front of the photographers and have my photo taken. I chat to people, I'll you know, have a microphone put in my face and I'll say something. But then I get home and I'm like, like I'm so tired and I I have to like explain to my mum all the time, I'm like one, a lot of barriers mask in, but two, if I am going out of my way to go to London for an event or you know, drive up wherever I'm driving to and putting myself through an insanely busy event, it is because it is related to my special interest. And I am able to tolerate so much more when I'm doing something that brings me joy. And Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: trying to explain that to the people is fucking exhausting. Like I said to my mom, I was like, How do you not understand this yet? And she was not me, but like some people might think. And I'm Well, I don't care what other people think, I care what you think, and I've explained to you why I can do this, but I can't do this. I was like, I don't give a fuck what fucking Linda thinks. Like I don't care. And I know my Trevor Holland: Yeah, I think Sam Munster: my mum is from a generation where people do care more about what other people think. So I think she worries more about what other people will think of me for not doing something than I care. Does that make sense? Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: and just constantly having to explain to people why I can't do things is exhausting. And I do feel like an idiot being like, I'm just really tired because my brain's been thinking all day. And people are like, Okay. I I've been thinking all day too. And I'm like, have you though? Have you been thinking a million things at the same time? Does it sound like a whole bunch of bees inside your head? Probably not. Trevor Holland: Yeah. I mean I don't even I've I've I've reached a point in my life now where I don't I don't feel the need to explain anymore. And I'm I'm I'm I feel very fortunate about that because I am an over explainer. I am a people Sam Munster: Yeah, me too. Trevor Holland: pleaser. I've talked about how much of a people pleaser I am in the past. But I'm I'm far more likely I think I'm learning t I'm learning to prioritize myself. And w well that's the word I wrote down when I wrote down selfish earlier. before we started. because there's a fine line, but it's working out what that line is between being selfish and protecting your interests. I'm not a selfish person but I am learning to be kind to myself and sometimes being kind to yourself means you might have to be suboptimal in terms of the friend that you are to somebody or the partner you are to somebody or the employee you are to somebody. But I just say no. And I don't feel the need to explain it. And it's it's been such an important stage to get to. To be unapologetic about who I am and what I am. And also just to not feel like, I don't want to let this person down, I don't want to let that person down. Trev, do you want to come to this thing? No. Sam Munster: Yeah, I'm getting back at saying no when I'm asked, rather than saying yes and then having no intention of going and then making up an excuse. Like I am back and I'll just go in no. And I know it pisses people off. Like I appreciate BNS, but a load of people in my family doing like a little trip. They're going to London on a bus trip. I can deal with buses, normal bus trips, they're very stressful. And it was like a girls' trip and it'd be like going to see the show and going for drinks and dinner. And I was like, Thanks so much, but I hate this thing that you've invited me to. Also, it would be like way too much for me. I'd be like too it's too much. And they were like, Okay, no problem. And then I felt the need to like further be like so that they don't just think I'm just being a bitch and being like, No, I don't want to come to your thing. I'd be like I said, you know, the the majority of my socializing now is going to the cinema with people and not talking to them sat in the dark. And they were like, Okay. And I just felt a bit awkward then because I was like, I want you to understand why I'm saying no. I'm not saying no because I don't want to spend time with you. I'm not saying no because I think you're a dickhead or anything. I don't want people as much as I don't want to cable people to think I don't want people to be upset Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sam Munster: as a result of something I've said or done. And I know I do, and like I am absolutely blessed to have the best friends that I have. she's Audi HD as well, undiagnosed, but peer-reviewed. and we have the most beautifully understanding amazing relationship and like yesterday I said something to her being silly and she was like you really upset me saying that and I'm like my god I'm so sorry I didn't mean to and she's like I know you didn't but I just need you to know that I was upset so that you don't say it again and I'm like okay she's like I love you so much and I'm like I love you so much and that's how our our relationship operates like we don't need to be worried about whether the other one is mad or thinking stuff or is sad because we'll tell each other and I am absolutely blessed to have a circle of friends who are all neurodivergent. And like that's one of the things I love about podcasting is I'm getting to talk to other neurodivergent people, whether whether it's because they're autistic and they've made a film and I'm like, wow, well done you or whether it's somebody who like you, you need to come on a podcast, wants to talk about their interest in horror as a neurodivergent person and I'm getting to build like a comfortable network of neurodivergent people who just all get it. There's no there's no shame when you're like, I can't do that. I just can't. I can't do it today. And they're like, okay. Like you said earlier, I just can't. Like that is enough. I can't or I just can't is enough that we understand exactly what that means. And there's no trying to make anyone feel bad and be like, come on, come on, or come on, do this but it's like, Yeah, no problem. Let me know when you've got the spoons and we'll do something another time. And that is Beautiful, and I know I am so so lucky to have that. And a lot of my socializing is done over WhatsApp or Instagram messages just sending each other like memes and and say posts and things and be like, This is you, this is me. And everyone meets me where I am and they accept me for who I am, and that's beautiful, and that's why I will keep. not I don't know if that makes sense, not shouting up about the fact that I neurodivergent because Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: it's brought me a lot of the people that are in my life now is as a result of that. just being excited on the internet about my special interests has given me so many incredible opportunities and I know I'm talking so much, you can just tell me to sharpen and wrap up your episode if you want to. But like I get messages from people all the time who are like, How come you get invited to this thing? How can you get invited to this? And I'm like, I don't know. And I haven't got that many followers on Instagram. They've got more followers than me, but I get invited to things and they don't. And I'm like, I think it's just because I'm a feral, excited little gremlin. Who is genuinely so enthusiastic about horror or the play, that, you know, one of my most exciting things in the world ever was getting in invited to the press night for ghost stories. Ghost stories Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: is one of my favorite things in the world. I think that performance was my sixth time seeing it. But I got to stand on the red carpet and have my photo taken. Reasha Smith and Stephen Embergum were there. what is the name? Kevin Aldon was there. There were all these people that I watch on TV and I love. And I was sat there alongside them like a peer. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: And it's not because I've got a huge social media reach or because I've got sponsors or followers, it's because I'm genuinely fucking enthusiastic about the things and I'm always honest. If I don't like something, I'll say it. And I'm conscious of who it is in people's feelings. So I do decline to review things all the time because if a big Hollywood movie is shit, I'm quite comfortable saying that movie was shit. But if it's somebody who's made a film with their friends and it's not very good, I don't want to put that out into the world, but I'm like the film you work so hard on is shit. Because that's Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: I feel like that's bad karma for me and that's not doing any justice to like the indie indie movie thing. But I just think I get these amazing opportunities that I have and I've made the amazing friends and connections that I have just by being myself. And I know as a result of being myself, I've inspired other people to just be themselves. numerous people have had a diagnosis as a result of me sharing my information. No, not my information, like my journey, my experiences on the podcast, Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sam Munster: on Instagram. Like people have gone, this sounds a lot like me and numerous people have messaged me to tell me, I just thought I'd let you know, have my diagnosis. I got myself referred because of you. And it makes you cry every time. And like one friend regularly messages me to tell me how grateful she is that I was so open about my experiences because she had her diagnosis as a result and it's changed her life. Finally having that validation and understanding, I did that, which is amazing. Just by being myself. Trevor Holland: Yeah, it's beautiful. Sam Munster: It is beautiful. And sometimes it feels like a lot of responsibility, which is a weird thing to say. But If I can help one person go, actually I'm not broken, or I'm not an alien, or as my friend said to me earlier, my friend Charlie, who's not Aud, she said, I swear the world's the test in me today. Like this is gonna be the best episode of the Truman show ever. Like that feeling that you're on the Truman show and everyone else knows what's going on apart from you, like it's just me being a feral yapper. on the internet helps anyone feel like less alone and more seen than I feel like my work here's done. Trevor Holland: Mm. That's it. And that's all that's all I'm trying to do as well. And I'm I'm finding yeah, I've got I haven't got the same kind of circle of friends a as you. I've Sam Munster: You'll find them. You will find them. They will gravitate towards you and they'll Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sam Munster: end up in your orbit. You that's how you find me. Trevor Holland: That's it, I am finding him. I'm finding him I'm finding him by do by doing this and I've never I've never felt more comfortable in my life. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm reclining so far in this chair I'm almost lying down at this point. Sam Munster: I you look like you're gonna slide off at any minute. Trevor Holland: But it's just because I could listen to you talk all day and and I'm finding I'm finding I'm meeting people like you and Th there's always that initial kind of first couple of minutes where it's a little bit awkward. But I've never felt more just like I'm meeting people who I'm already friends with almost and we're just talking. And it's so easy to do because you get it and I get it. And we can just share notes and because we understand I think it's a bit of a catharsis about it. It's therapeutic to be able talk to someone who gets it because you don't have to do any of the other things that you have to do with everyone else. And it's less tiring, it's less exhausting. You know, I wouldn't be able to sit and talk to someone for nearly two hours in any other situation without being completely spent. I I'm tired because it's been a long day, but I'm not tired from this conversation. It hasn't ex this this social interaction that we're having has not And that's why I'm finding so beautiful about it, because I'm meeting people like you, making friends, and being able to, for the first time in my fucking life, just be able to have these conversations with absolutely no airs or graces about them whatsoever. And it's so great. I love it. Sam Munster: Yeah, you will I think we all find each other. like I mentioned Charlie earlier. I've known her husband for a little while just through like the podcasting stuff on the horror community, and we just started chatting and clicked straight away. And then we were chatting all day, every day. And then all of a sudden, like she had my number and we were WhatsApp in. And we met up for the first time just like we'd known each other our entire lives. And it was like, Did we just become best friends? Like in Snapbrothers. And now she's like Trevor Holland: Yeah. Yeah. Step brothers. Sam Munster: such a close friend. And I didn't meet her for the first time until like April, maybe? I think I I think I started talking to her in February, met her for the first time, April, May, and every single day we'll text each other, Morning, and night, night, love you. And we've already known each other a couple of months, but our bond is so strong. Just because we're both ADHD, we both get each other, there's no having to explain anything because it's just like, I don't know why I know exactly what you mean. Like I know it sounds stupid when I say this, but I'm like, no, I I know what you mean. You don't even need to explain that. Like I I know exactly that feeling. And I know we all perceive things differently, but there's just so much like shared experience, I think. And I know from making other newer divergent friends that I've taught them a lot about themselves and things in their past that I think because I've been diagnosed a lot longer than a lot of my friends, I'm I'm a bit more like forthcoming with advice and things and I'm like, Well, I can think this thing in your past was actually this and you didn't do anything wrong because this was you displaying a classic case of RSD or this was a case of this and they've gone, my god, you're right. And I am obnoxious with it, like I will give people like little therapy sessions. if they don't want to listen to me, that's fine, just say, shut up, Sam, and I'll shut up. But it's allowed me then to look back at things in my life that I've like beat myself up over for years because I'll I'll give someone the most sage wisdom advice ever, and then I'll go, That's quite similar to this situation I had years ago, and I've been torturing myself about it for years, but actually. What happened with them that I've just told them that they don't need to worry about is exactly what happened to me and I shouldn't worry about it either. And I've been able to let things go through these relationships and friendships I'm having. And it's just it's really, really beautiful. And we just give each other the space to just do whatever we need to do. If we need to do that verbal processing of going through the same fucking story ten times, we know each other do it because we know. That the more we talk about that thing, the more we'll understand and the more it will become something that we can accept or dissect and work through stuff. But you can't do that with with neurodip neurotypical people. Trevor Holland: Mm. Sam Munster: They just look at you like the amount of times I've got really upset because people have shared a story and I'm like, I heard something similar and they're like, it's not all about you. And I'm like, I'm trying to show you that I understand your situation by sharing my story that is similar. And people get really annoyed and upset. Or like when people say, Well, what do you do that for? And then I tell them what I did that for. And they're like, I don't want your excuses. And I'm like, you literally just asked me why I did that thing. Why don't you want the answer? And it's so fucking hard. So having Trevor Holland: Yeah. Sam Munster: the friends that I have, I am so lucky and So many of my friends I was friends with years ago, we've lost touch and then they've got back in touch with me via social media and they're like, my god, hi, how are you? And I'm like, my god, we haven't spoken for 20 years. And they go, Guess what? I've got ADHD as well. And I'm like, Yeah, I know. Because I can look back at like how they were twenty years Trevor Holland: Mm-hmm. Sam Munster: ago, and I know they've got ADHD. and you know, they're all like it's like when you lift up a rock. Some of the little creatures will all run away and hide and then some of them will wiggle and they'll congregate in the middle and I feel like we're all the like worms that wiggle to the middle and all the like little spiders and things that scuttle off other neurotypical people. I don't know where that example came from, but I quite like it. Trevor Holland: I like it. No, I like that a lot. Sorry, I'm distracted, my cat's just turned up. And I was wondering if he was gonna No. Sam Munster: Hello cat, can say hi. What's his name? I forgot. Trevor Holland: His name is Sam. Sam Munster: excellent name. Trevor Holland: Come on. Sam Munster: hi baby, you've got a jump around. Hello. Trevor Holland: Here is the baby. He's the bab He's a baby. He doesn't want to play. He's yeah, he's got his T shirt on, look. Yeah. Sam Munster: Bella likes to wear clothes. She will go pick out her own clothes sometimes and she's she's very fancy. Trevor Holland: It's getting a bit late for him. I need to spend some time with him. I feel bad. Sam Munster: no. Sorry I've spoken to you for a very long time. I I talk at Trevor Holland: No. Sam Munster: people rather than talk to them. Trevor Holland: No, not at all. This is exactly what I wanted. I like creating a situation where I'll just say it here's a thing and then you talk about it. And that's exactly what I want. And I really appreciate it. But I will wrap it up here, Sam. Mainly 'cause I need to start cooking my dinner. But Sam Munster: Yeah, me too. Trevor Holland: But thank you so much. It's been so lovely to speak to you. It's been so interesting to hear your your stories and your finding a little bit more about your hyperfixation and I we're gonna talk about that on on another occasion. Sam Munster: Yeah, come on come on the podcast anytime. Trevor Holland: Thank you. But yeah, take care. Thank you so much. We'll speak again soon, okay? Sam Munster: And just to say before I do say bye, thank you to you for creating this space because I think it is so important. And hearing the stories from people from all different walks of life, parents of newer divergent children, late diagnosed people. I think we've late diagnosed, haven't we? But it's a beautiful safe space for people to share. Sometimes really upset in horrible things and it doesn't feel scary or horrible. So thank you for creating that space. And just for you being vulnerable and sharing your stories and stuff like your episode about your dad, like it it resonated so much with me because I saw so much of the way I respond and react to things in the way you responded to things. And not to reduce you to gender or gender stereotypes, but it is so lovely to have a man. be that vulnerable and I I feel like neurotiven neurodivergent sorry men are more likely to be that vulnerable but just thank you for creating this safe space and giving people a place that they can be honest and share and that you can be honest and share as well. It's very much appreciated. Thanks bye Trevor Holland: That was Sam Munster. Thank you very much, Sam, for taking the time to to talk to me and share your story with me. Hope you enjoyed that episode. Now I'd very much appreciate it if you were to follow Sam on her social media. her Instagram handle is at sam.munster. There's also an an Instagram page for her podcast, Horror Hyperfixations, which is at Horror Hyperfixations. within those you'll see links to her various other bits and pieces, the podcast itself and her other content, which is fantastic. So please check her out. Also, I'd appreciate it if you were to check me out at shoutybrain.com. As I said at the beginning, you'll find links to all of my stuff on there as well. So please do reach out and interact with me. I'm always looking for new guests for the podcast and I do, you know, keep my ear to the ground, but come up come to me, man. whether it y it's yourself who you want to come onto the podcast and you've got a story to tell or you've got someone else in mind, just give me a shout, either Instagram or you can contact me directly through the website. now, I hope you also enjoyed Sam the Goblin for those who watched the video. He wasn't particularly feeling sociable that day. He was wearing a beautiful t shirt though, so I hope you enjoyed the stripy little baby. Now, before I leave you, a special treat as a thank you for sticking around to the end. There's a new project I'm working on, a character called Minty500, who is a tardigrade, a water bear, and he is a positive affirmations, feel-good kind of tardigrade. He is potentially autistic himself. I've written a song. I'm working on an animated video for it, which is going to be coming out on YouTube in the near future. So Thank you very much for listening and watching. Hope you enjoyed. I'll be back next week. And here is a little snippet from Minty. Take care.