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114: Staciana Winfield - From Olympic Gold to Navigating Olympic Stress Syndrome · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: For you as you grew up, what sort of sport were you exposed to, and how did you find yourself enjoying it?
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm definitely not a land mammal.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I was very incoordinated on land I don't know if it was swimming or just in general not having the coordination.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: So I was actually an asthmatic and the doctor said the best thing to do would be to swim.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: And so my parents put my sister and I in the water at a very young age.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: We just loved being in the water.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: It was kind of the joy of swimming for me, and so what kept me in it was just the love for the water and I really couldn't do anything else.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: To be quite honest, I actually didn't develop true athleticism on land until I started doing yoga and having an awareness of my body.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: You know I had strength.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I could strengthen my legs from my sports, from swimming.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: But I could do, you know, strengthen my legs from my sports, from swimming.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: But you know I could do the most pull-ups in middle school, like it was so silly.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: But in terms of coordination it took me a long time.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Elite athletes are still people after all.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Stasiana, welcome to the show.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you are excited.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to mirror that excitement as well, looking forward to our conversation.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: I think you've got I don't know I'm going to say a great story.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: A great story is both an athlete and one that is certainly intriguing as we talk about that shift from a high performance athlete into shifting that balance, into whatever follows sport, and I'm quite keen to step into that with you.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Thanks, I know, me too.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I can't wait.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Well, look, stasiana.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: For those listening, who may know a bit about you, but but not everything, please introduce yourself.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Tell us who you are and what you're up to today.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Sure, I am a Californian, live in California.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: I was a professional swimmer for a really long time, olympic gold medalist in the Sydney 2000 Olympics.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I now teach full time.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I teach physiology, health, pe.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I love to move, addicted to yoga, I am a mom and what else?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: What are the qualifiers today?
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Basically obsessed with movement, I'm passionate about movement.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: I'm passionate about positive psychology best practices and really interested in breathwork.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Do you know I love the addicted to yoga.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: That one is, uh, that's been.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I think that's the first one I've heard like that.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: So what does that mean?
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: How often or how frequently do you like to practice yoga?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I do hot yoga specifically and kind of uh, the bikram style, but at a place that only does it for an hour, so it's not as regimented as bikram.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: But I found as an athlete, my big muscles take over and I was so inflexible.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I started doing yoga in college and hated it because I couldn't touch my toes.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: But it's one of those things that I realized Savasana, where you lay down flat and just work on your breathing and being present.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: It's a form of meditation.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I was hooked after like two weeks of that because I was not good at being still.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I'm still not good at being still and it was kind of a sense of relief to still my body, my body and my mind.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And then it just became an addiction and it's one of those things I feel like it keeps me young, keeps my body fluid and moving and works all the good systems in my body, like the lymphatic system, keeps me healthy, etc.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: So I use it for just overall health in general, to feel good and not turn into monster mom.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Well, knowing myself as a dad monster, dad's probably not too far away all the time, just on the edge.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe I should be more young, yeah usually when it's trying to get to school.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: That's usually when she comes out, you know oh.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Now, you did mention teaching, so that's something that you're clearly doing a lot today.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Was that something that you always had in mind as an athlete?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You know, my parents were teachers.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I think it was kind of innate in me to teach.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I just love learning and I think you have to love learning to be a teacher.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: But then I found myself coaching quickly after I finished my swimming career and it was very similar to teaching and so it kind of led me in that direction, to just working with people and sharing kind of the skill set that I already had learned from, you know, athletics yes, yeah, and you know what's?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: um, it's interesting.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I do speak with loads of athletes and for many of us, we find this natural desire to go into coaching after we've finished playing.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: As we're finishing playing doesn't always work out for the best, you know.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: We're not always the best types of coaches.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: How did you find that little shift?
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Did you find being a coach natural, or was it something you've had to work on?
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: you know it's interesting.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: They talk about how, like athletes are natural athletes and it's hard to explain to other people how they do what they do, and I think that's one reason.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Really successful athletes sometimes fail at the coaching level.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: I think part of being a coach is having mentorship of coaches that know how to teach.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: So I was really fortunate to have a mentor.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: You know Andy Kawamoto-Klatt.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: She was the A-Tube coach for Irvine Novas when I started and she taught me how to coach swimming at that developmental level break down the stroke, the technique, etc.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And then also how to motivate the kids.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: And I I love.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: I think I'm definitely a natural cheerleader and so for me it was kind of this like, uh, just finding joy and teaching skill, but also teaching growth and development on the social, emotional side for kids.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: I'm teaching them how to be good humans and I think that is what brings me the most joy, more so than you know, watching them some fast yeah, I love that.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: That's really good, quite inspiring as well.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Makes me think.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: You know, tonight I'll be coaching and it just made me think okay, it's about them becoming good humans, not about winning, but still still well for you.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I mean thinking, then, about you and sport as you were growing up in you know, I guess I don't know actually from.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I was going to say athletics, but I suppose I was going to jump in and say, well, was it swimming predominantly?
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: So I'll ask the broader question for you as you grew up, what sort of sport were you exposed to and how did you find yourself enjoying it?
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm definitely not a land mammal.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: I was very incoordinated on land I don't know if it was swimming or just in general not having the coordination.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: So I was actually an asthmatic and the doctor said the best thing to do would be to swim.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: And so my parents put my sister and I in the water at a very young age.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: We just loved being in the water.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: It was kind of the joy of swimming for me, and so what kept me in it was just the love for the water and I really couldn't do anything else.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: To be quite honest, I actually didn't develop true athleticism on land until I started doing yoga and having an awareness of my body.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: You know, I had strength.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I could strengthen my legs from my sports, from swimming.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: But you strength, I could do strength in my legs from my sports, from swimming.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: But you know I could do the most pull-ups in middle school, like it was so silly.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: But in terms of coordination it took me a long time.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So I I really find it fascinating children that do more than one sport and they can learn how to move and body awareness and different activities.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I think that's really important to develop more so than just one sport.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: That's quite interesting.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: All that strength and speed in water and you know you consider yourself uncoordinated out of water Did you very quickly then specialize into swimming.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Swimming was the way that you did all of your sport as you grew up.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, for sure.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: We pretty much from six years on.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: You know I swam four or five days a week and just loved it so much.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: You know I swam four or five days a week and just loved it so much, you know I would get home and eat all my food and pass out.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: My parents were like this is the best babysitter ever.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: They encouraged us to keep swimming, but I found a joy in it.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: You know I had teammates that I enjoyed being around and I just really loved being underwater.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when did you start to realize, hey, I'm good at this.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: And what did that change?
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: I really was not great for a long time and had to figure it out.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: It wasn't natural.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think I was a natural swimmer I had but I was really good at observing and watching other people and learning and copying.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And I had this innate ability to race.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I wanted to race everyone all the time, whether they knew it or not, and I think that actually helped me improve quite a bit, because my, my work ethic and my competitiveness lean towards working, you know, towards being faster.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I think 12, age 13, something like that.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: So six or seven years after I started swimming I started to see some significant time improvement and grew taller and stronger and things like that, and so I think that helped me improve.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: And then once I saw I qualified for nationals, time-wise when I was 15.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And I had just watched the 1996 Olympics with Amanda Beard and we were the same age, we had the same stroke and I thought like, oh, I want to be like her.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: And she was training in Irvine, which was about 60 miles from my hometown, and so we went up there and met the coach, dave Salo, and he was phenomenal and I was like I want to be here, I want to train with Amanda and all these other people, and getting in that circle of athletes and realizing like, oh, they're normal, they're just like me, but they're really fast and it made me so much better and I improved quite quickly after that.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Wow, and what do you think it was about the environment that made you progress so quickly?
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Positive peer pressure for one.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: Just the whole group doing it together was so empowering, it was fun, it was joyful.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Our coach, Dave Salo.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: He had this ability to keep us engaged mentally where we weren't just swimming laps back and forth and watching the black line, which I absolutely hated.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: I hate swimming for that.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: It was more of really complicated sets.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: He would say it out loud, verbally.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: We'd have to hear it, listen to it, process it and then do it and lots of components.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: You'd have to remember it all and I love the engagement of my brain.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: It just felt like a challenge and fun and was working on my memory all the time and then it allowed me to really enjoy racing, like his whole thing was we're going to do quality and we're going to race everything, cause why would you swim slowly in training?
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: You have to race fast in the pool and at the time in the early two thousands.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: That was pretty unique.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: You know it's still.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: There was carry over sixties, seventies, eighties of just swimming yardage, lots and lots of yardage as swimmers.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: And if you look at track and athletics like they specialize, you know, depending on the sport, it's very specific how you train.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So that was really nice to have a coach that not only knew how to keep us engaged as teenagers over you know squirrel, but then also allowing us to develop and have faith and belief that we could.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds like you say it was new.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Then it was a different way of thinking about training.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: It sounds like what he was doing, or what you, you and the team were going through, was you were training at that competitive pace, you were training at race pace.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: It wasn't we're training, it's well, we're getting ready to compete.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: It's quite a different way it turns in your mind for sure yeah, okay, I like that and it does talk to a little bit and I think we'll come on to about being in a high performance environment in order to learn and, you know, doing things to prepare you for those sort of major events and major moments in in life as well.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: So, as you did that, you made this conscious decision about training and moving.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: What impacted that having you from an academic aspect.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: I wrote all my essays in the water while I was swimming.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I studied math in my brain.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was a lot.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: But you know, I think part of the academics for me was you have such a limited time as an athlete to get things done because you're so scheduled and I became hyper productive in that amount of time that I had, so I got less done if I had a break and I wasn't doing much.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: You know, and that allowed me to really push myself mentally.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Just the engagement mentally of swimming and and the technique and what that looked like, and then putting that into practice in school I think that they really correlated.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: And so for you, thinking about those two together, as you were hitting those sort of mid-teens or early teens in your mind.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Where did you want to get to?
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: What did you visualize as your dream or your success?
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, really simple.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: I watched Janet Evans swim in 1998 Olympics.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I was seven years old and I saw her on the podium with her huge smile and just thought, wow, I want that.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to be the best in the world.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: And when I was 15 and I made nationals and I went to talk to Dave, I said to him I want to be the best in the world.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: And my coaches prior and adults prior that I said that to would kind of, you know, laugh it off and snarky.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: And and they didn't believe, right, cause they, for whatever reason, who knows.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: But he looked at me and said, well, we, we break world records in practice and we have fins on, but we still do it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: And it was such an amazing response for me.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I had never encountered that before, someone that had so much belief, not only in himself, truly right but in us, and that carried over.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to be there.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I want to break world records and practice, let's do this.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Now correct me if I'm wrong, but 15 is young to be breaking into, to be swimming at nationals level.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: What was that?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Was that like?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I think the first time I did it was really scary.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I was not prepared.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I got great advice just to go in and play and dance and be silly and be a kid, and that really helped, I think.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: And then, as I continued to swim at that level, just the validation I think I need words of affirmation that's one of my love languages and just the validation like you got this.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: You deserve to be here, you've worked hard.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: We did a lot of visualization and my coach was great about you know, I'm in practice in a kick set and I'm trying to beat the person next to me and he's saying that's the Chinese, you need to be the Chinese, because I was going to good world games and we were going to something against the Chinese.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: It was going to be a dull meet and so I could actually visualize and think, as I was training, I need to beat this person and it put me.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: It created that forward memory where all of a sudden I get there and I've done it.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I've done it a hundred times in practice and I'm not as nervous and that was so powerful, just a mental performance technique that he used for us that I took on.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: From you, from that athletic development.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I always find it so fascinating you going from, I'll say, your local or your rep team pool to then continuing to move up, finding yourself in this new, I'll say, competitive environment.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Suddenly, the Olympic dream, that smile that you wanted to have, got a lot closer.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: How did things change for you, sort of athletically, sort of on in the pool and out of the pool?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: How did it change to you in that, in the run-up to the olympic that's a great question.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: I trained for three years for it.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Realistically, you know, I moved.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: I moved over when I was 15, just turning 16, and I qualified for the olympics and the lead up to that I qualified for international competitions for, you know, team USA, and so I was getting these kind of baby incremental growth steps to get there and so it allowed me to build confidence and believe like, yeah, I can do this.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: And it was challenging, don't get me wrong.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I mean I was exhausted, you know, but I loved the exhaustion.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I really embraced my coach's phrase of, you know, be comfortable being uncomfortable.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: I was like, yes, want this, you know, probably to a point of, you know, maybe not so healthy, but I just I enjoyed it.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed being pushed and challenged and seeing where I could go.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: And then having that group of people.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: There's so much power in togetherness, you know, there's so much power in togetherness, you know there's so much power in the group that I think something, you know, you think of it as an individual sport but realistically I couldn't have done it without that group of people you know, and we had Aaron Pearsall, we had Amanda Beard, we had Jason Lezak.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, there were so many people in the pool training with us at that point in time.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: His goal, dave's goal, was to qualify for people for the Olympics in 2000 and he did that and it was phenomenal.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Right, and it was just this belief we all, we all bought in.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so, with that focus on your athletic performance, how much time did you have to think about running your life outside of that?
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: How did you earn money?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Where did you?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Where did you get to live?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: How did you think about, hey, the other outside of that?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: How did you earn money?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Where did you get to live?
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: How did you think about, hey, the other side of Stassiana?
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, what's interesting is I up to the Olympics in 2000,.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I was just a kid, right, my freshman year of college.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Everything was regimented, I was on full scholarship, so I didn't really have to think too much about my own responsibilities.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: You know, it was all kind of for me already set up in motion.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Fast forward to 2004,.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I was training for trials again and I was.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: I graduated college, I was back with Nova, back with my club coach, dave, and training again and I was in the best shape of my life.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I was literally just professionally swimming.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: My husband, brad, at the time, was able to work for me and kind of support me in that and I, you know, did lessons in clinics and things like that to make ends meet.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: But realistically, we were scraping by so that I could do this dream, you know, and I was in the best shape of my life because I was just training.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: I was sleeping, eating, training, sleeping, eating, training right.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: And I got to 2004 trials and I went my best time I hadn't gone in four years and it was phenomenal.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I was so excited.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I was the fastest American, you know, in prelims and I didn't make it in finals and I got fourth out of five girls and it was so hard to swallow that pill.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: It's like what?
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: And no one had beat my time from prelims, but I still wasn't going.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you swallow that pill?
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: The first reaction was to, internally, I wanted to throw my goggles and stomp off.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: Luckily it's fascinating.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: But my coach had told me before 2000,.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: He gave me advice.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: He said, when you touch the wall, I want you to close your eyes and ask yourself did you have everything you could to swim your best race?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: And if you did acknowledge that and be happy, whatever the number is, you know, so cause you have to get to first or second to go for trials for swimming.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: So in 2000, it was, I said yes, I did, and it was a two and I was going.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: And in 2004, I did the same thing and it was a no and the.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: What had happened was is this idea of mentorship.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: But I had been training with Jessica Hardy and we.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: She was 16 at the time and we were on the same team and she hadn't qualified for a national team yet and we were Dave Denniston, who's also a good friend.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: We were all training together and Dave and I would were encouraging Jessica every day, you know, and she was 16.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: She was young, she was scared, she didn't want to necessarily feel pain in practice, right, and so we were encouraging her all the time to go.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: And before finals, at trials, dave said to both of us he pulled us together and said I want Jessica to win at the 50 and I want Staciana to win at the 100, in the 100.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: So at the split he wanted her to be first and me to be first at the 100.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: And he wanted us both to make the team.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: And I had so much faith in his belief that I could do that that I didn't swim my own race and I wanted so much to support Jessica and her endeavor to be better that I was okay with that plan and I shouldn't have been.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't have been.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Really Realistically, I should have swam my own race because I was always out first.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: I had the world record, I had the American record in that I do breaststroke, you know, for a while and that was really hard just to realize like I didn't go out as fast as I should have and I couldn't come back.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: It just wasn't my race strategy.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: And what was interesting?
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: To answer your question, sorry, this is very long-winded, but basically I wanted to throw my goggles and this little voice in my head said you know, there are 30 plus people or more in the stands watching you.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: All my family and friends were local and they were watching me from that race and I knew how much they had sacrificed for me to be there and try and make that team.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And I knew that if I had walked and threw my goggles and stomped off it wouldn't be honoring those sacrifices they had made for me.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And so what I decided to do was just grit my teeth and put a smile on my face and, as I was, you know very negative self-talk to myself you're a loser.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, I can't believe you're doing this.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: You know I'm waving at the crowd acknowledging them and there were all these little kids that wanted my autograph, because for four years I had signed no matter what.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: If a kid asked me for an autograph, I would stop, take the time, connect.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: It's important to me and I learned more from not making the team in 2004 about my character and the importance of character and just being a good person than I did in 2000.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm grateful for that.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: That lesson that's a great story.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing it and just as I hear it and you know, you can see you as you've reflected on that and I think it's wonderful that in the moment you were able to pause, think about the effort you'd put in and think about the gratefulness that you had to those who had supported you.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I think that that in itself is quite wonderful.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: You know you talk about that strength of character and that really shines through there.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Thanks, yeah, thanks for sharing that.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: That's quite amazing so thanks sort of leads us naturally on to what follows that sort of the high and that sort of low that you have.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: To what extent did you question your I guess, ongoing ability to perform at that level and start to think, well, well, what's going to happen now?
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had two periods of transition quite honestly, you know we're talking about that and the first one was in 2000, after I made the Olympics, because I did not perform as well as I should have at the Games.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I had mentally prepared to make the team but I didn't ever create the forward memory of winning the Olympics.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I didn't.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I wasn't prepared just to be there and I was so scared and so overwhelmed and it just took me to this place mentally where I didn't feel like I belonged there and I didn't feel connected to Team USA, and it was a shame because I didn't tap into that opportunity.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So then after that I really struggled for basically two and a half years I struggled with depression and injury and I ended up studying my undergraduate thesis on post-Olympic stress syndrome, which I had coined the term, but basically this idea that coming off the Olympics, many athletes experience injury, depression, and at the time in the 2000s, it really wasn't talked about, there was no education or awareness on it and we kind of were left out to figure it out on our own.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And so as I began to study it at school at Berkeley, it was like this needs to be something that is exposed and then taught so that athletes can continue to either compete or find success in whatever they do next, because our identity is so wrapped up in our performance, and that's a shame yes, it is, and I know I've said before I love the, that sort of that thesis and the, I guess the depth that you went with that coming from both experience and bringing this academic side, but that, that stress that comes from it.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I know it's on Olympics, but how widespread do you think that is across all sports?
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: oh, a hundred percent.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I had such a good friend recently tell me I was talking to him about it and he he was working with athletic transition as well and he said to me he said you know, it's not just the olympics, it's all athletes.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: I see it, at the junior college level I see it, and the truth is it was like duh, duh, like light bulb, right, because my scope was so small.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: But truthfully, you know, you think about, you're so regimented, and you either so many hours of even just movement, right, and the positive neurotransmitters you get from movement dopamine and endorphins and things like that and then all of a sudden you stop and there's no titration down, you know, and it's so.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Not only so you stop completely with that, but then you also change your behavior doing other things and it's like, well, you're not exercising it from from 100 to zero.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Of course you're going to experience depression, like that's just a given Right, and so it's nice to be aware of that.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: And then figure out, how do we, how do we fix that?
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: How do we help those athletes transition to not experience that?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, what do we do?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Well, first off, education, I think just some awareness and build a community of people.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: I really believe in the power of togetherness and I think the more mentorship you have if I had people ahead of me that said watch out, let's figure this out together and move forward.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: And then encouraging best practices like positive psychology is incredible.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And how far it's come in 20 years and learning some of those things I think is incredible to just be able to thrive in the moments when acknowledge like yeah, I'm not okay and how do I get help?
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: How do I, how do I figure out what the next step is?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: no, I think you're so right.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: It it's something again, I think it's why I love your story so much is it's something I truly believe in, and through conversations like this and other activities that take place, you really start to see the help that athletes can have by being open, by hearing stories from people like yourself on well, this is a thing that happens, happens.
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: This is how many of us feel, so it's okay to feel like that.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And then, as you say, that importance of learning, just having an, in the same way that we tend to learn about our bodies as athletes and think, okay, so if I move my arm this way, oh, maybe five centimeters to the left, what happens and what's that difference?
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Getting an understanding about our mental state and understanding those phases that we go through tends to be just as important, and getting access to that is really key yeah, you know it's amazing, I'm a total nerd for neuroscience and positive psychology.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: It's like the two.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I just want to have a degree in both.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: You know, and, um, I feel like there's this idea of psychological strengths, right, and as athletes, we work so hard on our bodies and sometimes I think the psychological side is lost, it's not worked on too and it's a muscle, right?
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: These are things that you can improve your well-being, you can improve through best practices, and so having coordinating that, I think, is incredible.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: I'm reading this book right now called Flourish, and it's by Michael Seligman, the father of positive psychology.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: But they created this whole program through the military for trying to build resilience psychological resilience, not just physical resilience and it's fascinating, right, that they brought this program to youth development as well, but I think it needs to also be brought to the athletic community.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm curious.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: You know I want to touch on that book, although I know I want to talk a bit about your book as well and your story.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I'm interested as you were coming through your post-Olympic stress moment, what steps did you take to turn things around and get you well, quite simply, back into the national finals?
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: You know, just a few years later, yeah, I was really fortunate.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I was, you know, under contractual obligation to swim for Berkeley.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: You know, I was under full ride going into my sophomore year of college and I was their only breaststroker.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: And so my coach, terry McKeever, told me.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: I went to her office, you know, crying, because I had I ended up with a back injury and the doctors were telling me I might not be able to walk if I continue swimming and I might not be able to have children.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: And I was just like what?
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: This isn't OK.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And I went to her office crying, you know crying.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: I don't want to swim anymore, I can't do this, I'm hurt.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And she said to me you can't quit until you're happy and healthy.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: And I said to her I'm not going to want to quit when I'm happy and healthy.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: And she said, exactly so, every day you're going to show up, you're going to get in the water, even if it's for five minutes, and you get out, and then you'll just stand on the deck and you'll help, you'll be there, you'll be accountable to the team, you'll be accountable to being an athlete in this group.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: And it saved me because I wasn't in school.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: We got a waiver as Olympic athletes in 2000 because the Olympics were in Sydney and it was all pushed back till september.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: So we were missing like the first 10 weeks of school.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: So we all got a waiver and I wasn't in school.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: So I wasn't training, I wasn't in school, I had absolutely no direction.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I was so lost.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Of course, I was depressed, and just her making me show up was a turning point, because I didn't want to let the team down, I didn't want to let her down.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: I I needed that accountability to just be, be present, you know, be productive.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: And it took me a long time to get over the fear of competing because I had no idea how I was going to live up to what I had achieved.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: And it was scary.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: It was scary to step on the blocks.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I remember feeling sick to my stomach getting up on the blocks again, you know, like I don't think I can do it, which is so crazy, like I had trained my whole life for it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Of course I could do it, you know but that our brains are so strong in terms of our own belief system.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so what routine did you bring in place to help you to get over that?
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I went to therapy.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I did, you know, talk therapy for a while and it took me a while to find the right person.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: You know different sports psychologists that were helping.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I also journaled, which I think helped a lot, just to get my mind off of, like get the things out that I was worried about.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And then ultimately I just found joy being in the water, because I loved being in the water.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: That didn't change, and so figuring out how to play and be silly and have fun, and that that helped me so much to just OK, I can do this again.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I love to race.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So as I started to race and just I had to, there was no choice.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Each time I did, it got a little easier, you know, and then I always have.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, athletes are superstitious, so I always have the same stretching routine.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: You know different things to just help prepare.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: And I painted my nails, I put my suit on and danced in front of the mirror prior to the meet.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: You know all the little things to just make myself feel ready yes, yeah, great, and I love that.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: It's great just to understand those bits, the routine, getting back into that rhythm, but also accepting talk therapy, accepting help, accepting the need to speak with someone.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I think for many athletes who go through that, like you say, through the dip, through that depression, it's difficult to understand.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Is that what others do or is it a sense of giving up by doing so?
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: So the fact that you're again just comfortable just mentioning that, I think, is going to help so many people listening thinking oh well, that's okay and it's okay to find the right person doesn't mean the first person's the right one, and you know again for sure I also know that it helped me to to educate myself, right.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I think that that idea of studying post-oethic stress and trying to figure out the why helped me so much to just normalize it.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't normal.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: It didn't feel normal to me, it wasn't normalized.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: But as soon as I started talking to other people you know, I went to camps two years later and I had these stories of sharing with me like, oh, I'll tell you about it, and it was crazy, the things that happened to these people that just they didn't want to talk about.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: You know, they didn't and you didn't understand it unless you had been through it.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: But everyone, every athlete, at some point is going to feel that it's just a part of athletics and so for you we were talking about.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: You know you had two transitions.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: This first one, this realization and having to go through it, and thanks for sharing the journey to come out of that and, albeit, you know, for the, at least the trials, it didn't end how you wanted them to end yeah but I guess you're more prepared.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: You're more prepared to deal with that, knowing yourself a lot more.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: So what came next for you?
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I got married.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: I got married six weeks later, which was crazy.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: I was planning to go to the olympics swim and then come back and get married.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: So I got married six weeks later, which was crazy.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: I was planning to go to the Olympics swim and then come back and get married.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: So I got married, you know.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: And then I started coaching and I think that was kind of a nice transition to coach, because I was still getting in the water, I was learning, using the skills that I had as a swimmer to help others and that was something I had enjoyed, even while I was still swimming, and I pursued work, you know, even while I was still swimming and I pursued work, you know.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: But I, that was 2004.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And it took me to 2008 to really retire, like I just I wasn't ready, I wasn't ready to stop, even though financially I needed to be ready, I wasn't making enough money as a swimmer to just swim.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: But I really, I think the realization that I was really done was in 2008.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: And I had had enough time and distance between not making the team in 2004 to realize like, no, I don't have anything else to prove.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: And it's hard, I'm sure you relate to this, but this idea of I think, when you achieve at the elite level, one of the components of that is never being satisfied and you're always pushing and you're always trying to be better and you don't ever pause and look back at how far you've come.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: It's just this search, you know, for it to be the best and for me, I couldn't acknowledge all of the things I had done.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: It was just focusing on the things that I had failed.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: You know, and realistically, man, like I know, I achieved a ton and I loved that about it, but it took me a long time.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: It took me probably 10 years after 2000 to realize like, yeah, you're good, you don't have to do anymore what do you think it is about that?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: 10 years, that realization, how did it come about?
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Someone beats you and again and again, and you think, oh, maybe I'm just not as good, or is it something else?
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: That sort of clicks?
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: You know it's interesting, I 2000.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I'll share this story with you.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: But in 2000, at the Olympics and prelims, when I didn't swim as well as I wanted, I was so nervous and I was watching the girl next to me in prelims one.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I was watching the whole race as I was swimming, I was just watching her and when we dove in she ended up a body length ahead of me off the dive, and at the time my dives weren't great.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: So I thought, wow, like how did that happen?
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: You know, and I, the whole time, the whole time I was sitting, I just kept questioning how is she so far ahead?
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about her, which, of course, again, I didn't tell my race right when I I couldn't watch.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: I had a video like NBC records it and then they give the athletes the recording, which is very, it's awesome, it's really sweet of them.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: You know, at the time I was on a VHS dating myself in the 1900s.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: No, it was 2000.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I correct myself.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: But I, my husband, convinced me to watch the race in 2008.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: And he said let's watch it.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: It was on video and he'd never seen.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Ok, fine, let's watch it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: And so fine, you know, and when I watched it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: The underwater footage showed that she had taken like three dolphin kicks under the bubbles off the dive, which at the time you couldn't take dolphin kicks in breaststroke.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: So she cheated yeah and I I felt this sense of validation, like 10 years later, eight years later, like, like, oh, she cheated, that's why she was so fast and it didn't change history.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Of course it didn't make my performance any better because it was still not great, but it gave me a little sense of like peace, like, okay, I wasn't that terrible and people cheat in the Olympics, like it happens.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: What?
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Intentionally and intentionally, but you push the boundaries right because you want to win and at times it's what you get away with within the regulations.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Usually, what can you get away?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: yeah, unfortunately.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately it wasn't.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: But that's okay, I'm not bitter that's right's right.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: We're moving on.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: We're going to keep moving on.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: That's it, yeah, so look, you say that decade, that time to move beyond being or defining yourself.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Through that, you know level of performance as an athlete.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: So what shifted?
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: You know I described career as this balance between paid employment, unpaid employment or charitable work, the lifestyle and that love of learning.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: So it's always this balance, it's always this shift that moves over time.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: So, for you, as that athletic performance dropped away what started to come up in its place.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: I think just continuing the connection with people that really it drove me and all of my choices.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: It it's why I coach, it's why I teach, it's why I feel the obligation and desire to write a book.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: It's just this idea that I want to connect with people, I want to feel the power of togetherness and and help people with my story and learn from others and their stories, because everyone has a story right and it's so interesting to hear where, how far people have come and their struggles and their growth.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: You know, and I I'm fascinated with growth.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: I think that's why I just continue to learn.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I'm like I just give me more, I want to, I want to be better, and that never goes away.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: You know, I think I'm the most competitive with myself because I just, I want, I want to be better.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: I.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: I read this quote.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: It's so good, it's from uh, oh gosh, I'm going to kill it.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: It's from Flourish, the book, but it uh, rhonda she's a general Rhonda, poor man, I think is her name.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: I'll go back and correct myself later but she says the enemy of good is better.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And I can't unhear it because it's like yeah, I don't want to be good, I want to be better.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, that never goes away, it doesn't.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Now I am fascinated because your book you've, you know you've got this book that's out your.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: It's about your stories and you know we're on the show now because you know I love stories.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I love your story, that story of change and transition, athlet.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: We're on this show now because you know I love stories.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I love your story, that story of change and transition athletically and into this life after that high performance sport.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: Tell me who's the book, for what and what is it about?
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: yeah, I mean the audience is very broad.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: There's no age range.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Well, it is adult book.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: There's definitely swear words in it, so, please, children, don't read it.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: But I just have to preface that.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: But it's for the community.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: There's two target communities.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: One, athletes I think the story, the stories in there about athleticism and transition and what that looks like, is going to be helpful for all athletes to read, whether they're sober or not, because I think it applies in a larger scope.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: The greater audience, I think, is the community that has experienced trauma and loss.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: It's a book about healing.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: It's a book about healing through trauma and grief and how to thrive after you know such devastating things in your life and everyone's experienced trauma.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: So the book is really for everyone over 18.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: And I'm excited to share that.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: You know I I unfortunately I lost my husband.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: He passed away in 2016.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: He had colon cancer, stage four, and he was diagnosed at 35.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: And for two years he fought really hard to stay alive.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: You know, and when he passed away, the grief that I experienced prior because of the cancer diagnosis you really do grieve the minute they're diagnosed, you grieve for all the future memories that may not happen.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: And then when he died just that, the challenge that I had to experience, not only for myself losing my partner, my best friend but then also for my daughter, who was five at the time, and how do I parent her through that and how do I survive to still be her mom, you know, and I was so lucky.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: I was so lucky that I just had angels.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: That, basically, you know, I really believe through my faith.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: You know, god sent me these people in my life that were angels, that just guided me through that, and one of the things they I did immediately was a program called Grief Share and again, it was a program about educating, educating yourself on grief.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: What grief was?
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: It was normalizing it, it was connecting you with people, it was a support group and I sat around this table with all these grannies that they all were in their you know, 60s, 70s, 80s, and they'd lost their partner of 30, 40, 50 years and I was definitely the youngest by far, you know but sitting around the table and being able to cry about our loved one and and connect and share stupid stories and make terrible, terrible, morbid jokes because that's what you do when you grieve.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: It was a safe space, you know, and I cherish those connections, I cherish those stories and I my hope is that I can increase, I can increase my positive impact internationally.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: I want, I want everyone to read the book, you know, and?
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: And not for income, it's not for sales, it really is to to bond and feel the sense of togetherness.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: You know, we are one, we all experience the human condition of love and loss and what that looks like, and we do it at different times in our lives.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: But at some point I think you need right, we deal with grief throughout our life and the, the trauma, and whilst you know, it's certainly not on me to to measure or put you know different scales on that, but for you and I think through your stories we get to understand for you it was, you know, be it athletic, but then of course also in life, or that personal life, you feel that you've gone through that trauma and gone through that grief and also continue to live, continue to thrive.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: After that.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: You know the start of those, those grief moments as well, and so through the book, as you read that I know we you know it talks about those different phases and those different periods of your life coming through it.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: When we think about where you are today, when you, you know grief, these moments of trauma, they certainly define us.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: How do you think they've, how do you think those moments that you've gone through?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: How do they help you to thrive today?
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: you to thrive.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Today, you know, there's, um, there's talk about post-traumatic growth and there's research on it and amazing scientists who have spent time, you know, with data and collection and things, and this idea that we are stronger through the hard times, the adversity we experience, makes us stronger and, um, I'm grateful for it.
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: I am, I'm grateful for the loss, as ridiculous as that sounds it does sound ridiculous, it does sound silly to say I'm grateful for the loss tell me, I know and I can't tell us why, it's hard, it's hard to put it into words, but I do feel like I felt like I had a heart, a hole in my heart when my husband passed, and there's this idea now that the emptiness is space for growth, the emptiness is space for expansion, and so the fact that I can, it's almost like it's open to channeling love more than had I not lost, and I can't explain that feeling, but I just know that everywhere I go, I feel love and I give love and it's authentic, it's genuine and I love it.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, part of it is I'm bald, so people think I'm dying from cancer and they want to give me sympathy and I just accept the love and give them a hug back because they want to connect, you know, and um at something that I value so much yeah, you know that the strength that comes across to me here is in when you didn't make the Olympics, and the moment you touched the wall you had your eyes closed.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: You went through that routine.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: You looked up, you saw you hadn't made it.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: You knew the result.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: That was a that's a moment for many athletes, that that's a grief moment, that's a moment of oh my gosh, I've not done this.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Your reaction, coming out of the water there was recognizing those who are accountable to you or who you're accountable for, and so you held it together.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: You, you went over and then you saw the, the young girls, come in and asking for photographs.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: They still recognized you for who you were and you were still a hero to them.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: But that behavior it just.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: It just takes me to what you've just described with um, and you know the process that you went through the loss of your husband and and the way that you had a moment.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: But you recognize who you still needed to be there for being your daughter and for those around you and still finding support.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: And I just think you know, whilst not trying to pull the magnitude of the feeling to the same extent, but what I recognize is the process and behaviors that you went through that learning.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: For me there's such a strong similarity.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: That's there and yeah, and that's that's yes, 100%.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I love the connection.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you for that.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: I would never have seen it, but I appreciate it yeah, yeah, I yeah.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I just think I think it's great.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: So it was.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: It's like it's.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: It was there for you.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: It was always there.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: It was something that you had in you to from a young age, that you, that you learned and you've been able to adapt to that.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: That's really powerful.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: That's good, thank you, thank you.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: You know there's there.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I know I keep talking about it, but this idea of gratitude right and like gratitude is what makes you thrive.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: And there's best practices where you write three things a day that you're grateful for and if you're watching this podcast, you need to do it but three things are great that you read before and why, why you're grateful for it.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: And the more you do that, you create these deeper neural pathways in your brain.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: It becomes easier and easier.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: It's a skill, right, it's a muscle.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: It has to be practiced consistently and the more you do it, the more you feel like I'm going to get through it.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Whatever it is, whatever that is that struggle, I'm going to get through it because I'm grateful that I'm breathing today.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Even though it's reflexive, I'm still breathing.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: The sun's still out.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: The birds are singing.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: You know wherever you are, maybe not in uh in uh.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Well, you're in Australia.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: It's got to be sunny there.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Right, it is sunny at the moment.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: This is, it's a lovely day, so that's.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: But you were going to say like no, not in England.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: No, not in England.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say London.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like you're not in England that's.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: it is so true, and you know I'm curious, then, that journaling something that you did, you know you've done throughout a good chunk of your life how helpful was that for you in starting to write the book, or at least coming up with the idea of writing a book?
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I love writing.
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: I think that was always something in me and so journaling felt really natural to me.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: And I know not everyone loves writing, so the idea of journaling is kind of debilitating, I think, to some people.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: But again, I think it's a skill you can practice and I think, as I was going back to remember some of the stories, specifically of the Olympics, because we're making the team the details of journaling helped me.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I could go back and look at the journals and then include that in the book and have the details there and remember how I felt in that moment.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Because, as good as my memory is, I'm a mom.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: I feel like my child stole all my brain cells and it's hard sometimes to remember my brain cells and it's hard sometimes to remember.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: But I do also feel like those moments of impact where you know your neurotransmitters are firing right and when they're firing like that, it creates a memory that's so much deeper and stronger.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: And so I, you know, sharing this book out and people are like gosh, how do you remember it?
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: Do I forget?
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: It's just in there, it's imprinted in me and I can't forget it.
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: I feel it in my body.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: It's visceral.
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Um, I, I love music.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: I I absolutely connect with music and I'll hear a song, and I know it happens to everyone.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: But you hear a song and it takes you immediately back to that moment so, so true, so true.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I'm, uh, I was.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: You know, for me personally, music.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I was a DJ when I was younger and living in France at the time, and when I play certain songs, it just takes me straight back into France and and those memories, and it is, it's, it's wonderful, isn't it?
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: The power of music.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so for you, you know, today, when we think about what's next for you, where you're going, I, I just want to ask for, when you think about young athletes or athletes coming through and you know, obviously they're in their performance mode and they're this is it, this is the top that I'm going to be what guidance would you give to help them transition better or at least shift that balance from athlete towards a more, as you said at the start, being a good person, an all-rounded person?
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think they need to connect with me.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I think they need my help that's it.
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: They need to read the book.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: Read the book.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: No, I'm joking kind of no.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's really important to connect with the community.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: For one, I think we've gotten really good at that through social media and just this idea of global community right.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: The fact that you and I connected through one person and now we're speaking to each other on different continents is is incredible, right, and I'm I'm so grateful for that.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: So, being leaning into those connections and being open to it, I think is really important to just get the help and mentorship you need and then educating yourself and and and knowing it's you're normalizing these things, right, it's okay to to feel the things you're feeling and give yourself grace for that and allow yourself the space to take the time that you need to transition, whatever that is.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: You know, and and I really believe I think a lot of transition work has to do with career and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but I also know that there's this grind as an athlete and you grind, and you grind, and you grind, and the harder you work, the more you're going to go, and when you go into work without debriefing and kind of learning, learning that quality might be better than quantity, right?
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: As we talked about earlier in swimming.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: You're not necessarily going to win at work by just working harder.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Right, you have to make connections with people, you have to navigate, you have to educate, you have to grow and I think just putting your head down and grinding a lot of times, athletes and careers, whatever that is just feel like very lost, like they're not getting what they got out of athletics.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: By working harder, you know, they just become the workhorse, and so I think it's important to recognize your strengths for one before you transition to career.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: You know, do the strength survey through positive psychology from UPenn.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: It's phenomenal.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: So there's 24 strengths and you figure out what is your strength.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: How can you use that and leverage that to go into a field that you're going to find joy in?
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Right, and I think I'm so fortunate.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I love my job, I love coaching, I love teaching and I love connecting with people.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: I I get the ability to speak to groups of people at conferences and and motivate them and share my story and connect, and I that I am so like, I think I enjoy.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think I need the accolades of my swimming career because I ha, I feel like I have this connection with people now and I'm pursuing something that is more impactful.
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: It's not selfish, it's not for myself, it's for others and I get something from it.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Of course, right, when you serve others, you're serving yourself, but it feels so much bigger of a purpose than making an Olympic team.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: Stasiana, I want to say thank you so much for joining me on the show today.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: There are going to be people listening to this who are thinking I want to know more, I want to follow, I want to buy a piece of you.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Where can they find you?
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: What's the best way to get in contact?
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: So website bigwinenergyorg that's my company, big Win Energy, because we win together, not alone, and that's the best way you can contact me that way.
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: And then I have different Instagram handle you can share out.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: I guess I'm not sure how we would do that, but I'm happy to share the Instagram handle.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: It's just at Staciana W.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and please, please, connect with me.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: I would absolutely love it.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Read my book, share you know, get on the website, and there's more goodness to come.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: This is just the beginning just the beginning.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: It absolutely is.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Look, we'll put all that information in the show notes.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: So, staciana, thanks again for joining me on the show.
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Absolutely loved your story and this conversation thank you so much, ryan.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate your time and everything that you do.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: That's all from me.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Take it easy Until next time.