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The signs of financial abuse are often not that clear · She's On The Money

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: the Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. Today's episode of the
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: show is brought to you by our friends at eighty
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: six four hundred.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I'm Jorja King.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm a copywriter and TV assistant who desperately wants to
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: get better at all things money. To do that, every week,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I sit down with my friend and money expert, Victoria
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Devine heye Hi.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Now today on the show, we are going to be taking.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: A little bit more of a serious approach as we're
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: covering a topic that we've found very confronting to tackle
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: that we felt was incredibly important we discussed as a community.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Before we do go deep, Victoria, it's time to stick
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: with tradition and chat money, wins and confessions.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: What did you get up to this week?
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: I'm so glad I get to go fast.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's fast fast.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: I am so glad I get to go first because
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: I have a confession for you for the first time.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: This season, Dull.
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear this,
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: but I have once again not been very good with
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: my Uber eats account. And gone a little bit wild
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: on it. Over the last week or so, we've been
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: in the middle of just changing a lot of things
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: in the office and it has been the easy go
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: to both during work and when I get his life set.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah it look it's been really helpful.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: But on the weekend I decided that was just enough
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: was enough, and so I made a really big batch
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: of pumpkin soup, which is really really cheap and really good.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: I was excited because I use this specific type of
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: coconut cream that's quite expensive in my pumpkin soup, and
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: it was on discount when I got to the supermarket.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: That stuff is expensive.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yes it is.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: It's like four dollars a tub for the one that
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: I like, and I just find that ridiculous. But anyway,
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: enough about my pumpkin soup. It was really cheap and
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: I have been eating it all week and I love it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Do you win all money confession for me?
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I have a win this week food related as well.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Well.
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  Speaker 1: I was shopping at Carlors.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I saw someone actually posted this in the group as well,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: serena tuna was half priced. That stuff is excact is
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: the expensive tea?
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
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  Speaker 2: It was half price, so I stopped part of about
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: ten of them.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I love it.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: I looked a little bit weird at the cash register.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: But no, no, I've done that before. But I grab
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: the box, yes, and I'm just like, I'm not carrying
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: this seriously, I'm not going to carry individual cans. I'm
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: just going to take this box and half fill it,
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: and then I look like some crazy cat lady, which
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: I am.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: But also that tune is not for my cat. It's
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: actually for.
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  Speaker 1: Me, Serena.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: If you're interested in sending us some free tuna, would
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: be into that.
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  Speaker 1: That's just g okay.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And now moving along to the Facebook group, I have
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: seen so many women lifting each other up, providing support
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: and sharing their knowledge and resources I hadn't even heard of.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: So as always, Victoria, do you have a favorite this week?
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: I do, And this week is a little bit of
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: a different topic this week, so I'm actually not going
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: to name names this week. For those of you in
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: our Facebook group, you might already know which post I'm
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: referring to, but for those of you who haven't seen
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: it recently, we had someone post in the group that
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: they had just left it domestically and financially abusive relationship
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: and they were looking for support from our community, which
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: I thought was so beautiful. This post, while it was
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: really awful because of the situation, was really special and
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: I feel so so proud that we've created a space
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: where we share content like this and people feel comfortable
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: to do so.
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  Speaker 3: But more to the point.
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  Speaker 4: This post received an absolutely overwhelming response from our community.
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  Speaker 4: Like there were more than one hundred comments on this
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: post from people sharing their tips and similar stories to
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: women literally in every single state, offering a safe space
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: to go if our poster needed it. So ams, you
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: guys literally blow me away with your empathy and kindness.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: So this week, I just want to say thank you
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: to the group for being supportive and being.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: The group that you are.
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  Speaker 4: This community is what it is because of the sum
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: of its parts, and all of you guys are a
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  Speaker 4: part of that.
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  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: On the note v of supporting one another and sharing
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: our wisdom, I'd love to share a longish post from Harriet,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: who has been so wonderful in putting together a post
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: of resources for those who have been impacted by domestic violence.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much to Harriet. We've actually taken inspiration
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: from this and created a blog post full of resources
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: for those impacted by financial and domestic abuse. You can
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: find it at the Shoes on the Money website and
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: we will also post it in the Facebook group today
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: as well as at our show notes and now onto
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: today's topic. Over the past few months, Victoria has met
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: with a number of experts in this area to help
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: out with the preparation for this episode, because it is
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: deeply important to us that we not only cover all
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: the necessary factors, but it also gives this topic the
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: respect it deserves. You may have heard of domestic and
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: emotional abuse before, but there's another type of abuse that
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: is infiltrating the relationships of so many and it is
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: often a little more hidden. Unlike physical abuse, financial abuse
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: can be harder to identify. So this week we are
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: going to tackle this confronting but frankly, very necessary topic.
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  Speaker 4: We reached out to the community over the last month
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  Speaker 4: and had an absolutely overwhelming response from incredibly brave women
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  Speaker 4: who have come forward to share their stories with us.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: Whilst Georgia and I have never been in financially abusive relationships,
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: we wanted to make sure that we were bringing you
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: more than.
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  Speaker 3: Just backs and statistics on this deep topic.
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  Speaker 4: So this episode has been put together from the personal
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  Speaker 4: experiences of so many women in our community, with the
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: guidance of family lawyers, domestic violence experts, and government bodies
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: who sadly have foundless knowledge on this topic. Before we
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: jump in, though, I just wanted to let you all
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  Speaker 4: know that financial abuse doesn't discriminate.
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  Speaker 3: It can happen to anyone.
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  Speaker 4: So if this is something you're struggling with, the show
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  Speaker 4: Notes will have a number of really great resources for you.
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  Speaker 3: To use if you need them.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: And if you still feel like you need a friend,
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: please feel free to reach out to me and I
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: can help point you in the right direction if you
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: need it.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Domestic violence is currently at crisis levels in Australia. We
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: see it in the news sadly all too often, and
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: it's actually estimated that one woman dies every week and
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: one man dies every month because of domestic violence in Australia.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: According to Core Data, in Australia, three in five women
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: in relationships are leaving themselves open to financial abuse.
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  Speaker 1: Financial abuse is really the silent player in.
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  Speaker 2: The game of domestic violence and it's a cruel and
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  Speaker 2: dangerous trap for victims. It's often not having the necessary
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: money to fund an escape from an abusive relationship that
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: keeps them stuck in a place they just don't want
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: to be in. However, financial abuse does take many forms
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  Speaker 2: and doesn't just have to be linked to a domestically
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  Speaker 2: violent situation.
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  Speaker 1: Victoria, we were talking.
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  Speaker 2: Earlier, and you were saying that it can be anything
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  Speaker 2: from a partner who tracks every cent you spend and
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: doesn't allow you access to any of your banking to
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: a boss who withholds your pay.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Before we do start.
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  Speaker 2: Discussing what the red flags we need to be looking
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  Speaker 2: out for are, what do we actually define financial abuse as?
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  Speaker 4: That is a really good question, and we were going
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  Speaker 4: through it, and I think a lot of people don't
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  Speaker 4: see financial abuse is something that can happen outside of
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  Speaker 4: a romantic relationship. Financial abuse can actually take so many
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  Speaker 4: different forms, but essentially it is a situation where the
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: actions or behaviors of someone else whom you trust make
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  Speaker 4: you feel like you're not in control of important financial
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: decisions that directly impact you. This, unfortunately, is typically suffered
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: from by women, particularly women in married partnerships, which is
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: obviously where we get this idea that it only happens
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: in marriages.
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  Speaker 3: It can be found.
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  Speaker 4: Across all age groups and all class structures. Figures show
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  Speaker 4: us that ninety eight percent of women who report domestic
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: violence to police actually also suffer from financial abuse. This
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  Speaker 4: abuse can take form in many many different ways. For some,
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  Speaker 4: it means actively being prevented from going to work and
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  Speaker 4: earning money. For others, it means being provided with limited
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  Speaker 4: amounts of money or not being allowed to have access
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  Speaker 4: to their own bank accounts, and for many it is
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  Speaker 4: a slow grinding down of the independence and confidence to
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: the point that they barely know how to look after themselves.
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  Speaker 4: Financial abuse can be something that's very difficult to recognize
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  Speaker 4: or even and admit that you're going through when it's
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: happening to you, especially if it's from someone that you
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  Speaker 4: trust or love. We know that people are at the
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: highest risk when they actually leave an abusive relationship of
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  Speaker 4: being financially vulnerable, so it's important to have some form
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: of plan so that you can exit the situation safely.
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: This applies to so many different people. We are not
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  Speaker 4: sitting here talking about people who are already in domestically
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: or financially abusive relationships. Gee, we are here having a
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: chat today about how we can prevent ourselves from ever
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: being exposed to that opportunity. A couple of weeks ago,
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: I sat down with family lawyer Zoe Rosman, who has
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: seen it all too many times. She says that it's
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: absolutely essential to have a financial escape plan in place
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: or a personal emergency fund. But we're going to get
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: to that very shortly. Yeah, lots of stuff to get
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: through now.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: We were talking before about how to actually structure this podcast,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and we agreed that it would be the most effective
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: to go through some of the behaviors that could help
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: us identify if we are in this situation, because, as
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: you said earlier, Victoria, it can be really hard to
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: identify and figure out if you are in this situation. So, Victoria,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: what would you say are some of the key indicators
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  Speaker 2: that a relationship is financially abusive?
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: So I don't want to go on about this, but
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  Speaker 4: the first thing is it doesn't have to be your partner.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: It can be a parent, it could be a friend,
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: it could be your employer. It's anyone who takes your
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: ability away to make financial decisions independently or restricts your
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: access to money that you are either owed or you own.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: This takes so many different forms and shapes, and financial
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: abuse doesn't necessarily mean restricting access to your money. It
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: could be someone who goes in and looks at your
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: bank account each and every single day and questions each
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: and every single transaction you make, or makes you feel
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: really guilty about spending money on necessary items.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: So another way that this could happen is.
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: When you are stopped from earning money or you are
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: forced to stop work. This can have a significant impact
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: on your ability laid it down the track to actually
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: get employment again and get yourself into a financially stable position.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: So we're not talking about people who you know, a
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: stay home mum's by choice. We're talking about people whose
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: partners are saying no, actually, I don't want you to
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: have a job, which sadly is more common than we
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: actually think it is. Furthering on from this, three in
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: five women are vulnerable because they don't have assets or
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: savings of their own. Maybe they've left the workforce to
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: have children, or maybe they've returned to the workforce part time.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Maybe everything is actually in their partner's name because their
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: partner is the breadwinner and quote takes control of their finances.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: But it's not just that, it's everything in between that too.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: This lack of.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Financial independence so often comes alongside and can even enable
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: domestic violence. If you're in a relationship with someone who
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: wants to control you that way, more often than not
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: they want to physically control you as well, and that
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: comes out in multiple different types of abuse. And one
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: of the saddest parts of these abusive relationships is often
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: it's the finance that keeps you tied in that situation.
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: Staying in an abusive relationship is all the more likely
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: when you can't actually afford to leave. You've got nowhere
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: to go, You've got nowhere to go, you don't have
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: an option, and often there is a lot of shame
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: and guilt surrounding this situation. So people in these situations
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: do not feel comfortable to reach out to friends or
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: family and explain the situation in depth so that they
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: can move forward. So, Gee, when I was talking to
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: Zoe a couple of weeks ago, she actually said something
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: that really resonated with me and made a lot of sense.
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: And that is when you are in a domestically and
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: financially abusive relationship, that perpetrator often isolates you from other
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: friends and family, so that once you need to reach out,
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: you don't feel comfortable or safe to do so because
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: that person has made you feel so isolated from friends
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: and family.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Completely dependent on them.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: You're completely dependent on them, and you're in a situation
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: where maybe your friends and family are is welcoming to you.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Because you've pushed them out.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you've pushed them out because you've essentially been told to.
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: So we're not talking about, you know, people who don't
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: have family and friends. Often these people have beautiful families
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: and beautiful friends, but they've been made to feel like
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: they can't approach their family or friends for help because
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: they've put themselves essentially in that position by not putting
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: themselves in that position, if you will.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Victoria, you spoke about creating a financial escape plan earlier.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: What does that actually look like though? And how do
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: we go about creating one if we do need one?
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: So this is something that I have spoken to clients
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: about previously, and it's also the main theme of the
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: conversation I had with Zori Rosman when I spoke to her.
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: She is a family lawyer and she deals with this
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: situation honestly, far more often than she should. But the
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: one thing that she said is that she is in
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: a position where people do not reach out to her
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: to create a forward thinking plan. It's often a really
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: reactive plan and not usually done prior to the person
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: leaving the relationship. So she said, if she could change anything,
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: it would be that if someone is planning on leaving
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: a relationship as much as it's a really awful situation
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: to be in and we need to leave asap, create
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: a plan. And to create a plan, she said, we
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: need to be thinking about it before we leave that
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: house or that situation. We need to be making sure
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: that we can actually identify that we are in a
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: financially abusive relationship, not just a domestically violent relationship, and
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: knowing where we are going in the future, so making
• 13:34
  Speaker 4: sure that we are setting up bank accounts for ourselves.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: Sometimes that means that we don't have funds to put
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: in them, but at least we have access to bank
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: accounts of our own, and at the end of the day,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: everything will end up being disclosed, so one way or
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: another we'll be able to get all assets on the table,
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: but it's very very hard. So one of the best
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: things that you can do is actually take copies of everything,
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: so bank statements, bills, mortgage repayments, everything. Don't take the originals,
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: you don't need them, just take photocopies of them, take
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: photos of them, and not only have them for your
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: personal reference, but leave them with someone that you trust.
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: So if you have a family member or you have
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: someone that you can provide those documents too, to say,
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: these are copies of all of my financial documents or
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: my family's financial documents.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Whether you understand.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: Them or not, it's better to have copies of them
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: so that your family, lawyer, or the person that is
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: helping you through this situation in the future can actually
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: help you through that with a more holistic picture.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: Of where we're starting from.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: In addition to taking copies of financial documents, it's also
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: really important to take copies of your identification, so your passport,
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: your driver's license, your birth certificates for you and your children,
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: any citizenship papers, any visa papers, your medicare cards.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: You could look.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: Into just making copies of it on a scanner and
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: sending them to yourself, or you could just take photos
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: of them and if you don't feel safe having those photos,
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: send them to a friend or a family member or
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: even a financial advisor, someone that can hold those documents
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: for you, so you can delete copies off your phone
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: or out of your inbox so that your partner or
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: the person that you don't want to know that you've
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: got copies of can see them. It's also really important
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: to understand what leases you are on and potentially have
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: your name taken off a lease and return the keys
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: and notify any utilities that you are not in that
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: relationship anymore and that you are not liable for those
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: debts because they can rack up in the background without
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: you even knowing. So that's just something to take into consideration.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: And another thing that is really important is also contacting
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: oz Post and having your male redirected so a confirmation
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: might go to the home address, so be mindful of
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: that it won't ever have your forwarding address on it.
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: It will just say that mail is being redirected to
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: a different location and just letting the person at that
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: location know.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: So that might be something that you want to watch
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: out for.
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: Gee, I've start across from this very table with clients
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: who haven't known where any of their assets are. They
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: haven't understood how much money is in their bank accounts,
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: their partner either has given them a credit card which
• 16:19
  Speaker 4: they track each and every single month. They're not sure
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: what type of properties or assets their family owns. They
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: know they own a house, but they're not entirely sure
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: if it's just that house or a number of investment properties.
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: And to be honest, that is one of the most
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: heartbreaking conversations I can have with anyone, because it's not
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: about Hey, I'm in debt and they need to get out.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: It's actually, Victoria, I don't understand my financial situation. Someone
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: else has hidden that from me, and I don't have
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: a way.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: To get hold of that.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: So if you can put yourself in a position where
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: you are as educated as you possibly can be, then
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: it's time to make a plan and make sure that
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: we're there. But if we start talking about this financial
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: escape plan, which is again and I'm not going to
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: harp on about it, but it's a heartbreaking thing to
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: think about, what we should actually be doing is putting
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: ourselves in a position where we don't need a financial
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: escape plan, where we are financially independent, in a relationship
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: where we understand the ins and outs of our financial life,
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: regardless of whether we are the one that pays the
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: bills or not. I want each and every single woman
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: that listens to this podcast to understand how to pay
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: a bill, to understand where their money goes each and
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: every single month, to understand what costs and expenses exist
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: for them and the assets that they and their family own.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: So for me, it's actually about going, hey, this situation
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: might not be happening to you, but make sure that
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: you're never in a position where this can Now.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: You mentioned before Victoria that it would be a good
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: idea to set up a different bank account so that
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: we can maintain some kind of financial independence. But what
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: do we do if our partner tracks are every move
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: and is looking over our shoulder. How do we actually
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: make that money for ourselves?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: Where do we grab it from?
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: What do we do?
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: That's a really important question. I was speaking to Zoe.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: That was something that I was like, but what do
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: they do? How do they get their own money? Like,
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: what's your advice here? And she said, that's where the
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: plan comes into play. It's taking additional cash out when
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: you are doing the grocery shopping. It is taking small
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: amounts of cash and just depositing in and just depositing
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: it into that account. And whilst I know that this
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: situation might not be true for every single person, you
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: might be in a situation where this is.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: Absolutely not possible.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: I also want to mention here that there are a
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: number of banks that if you open an account with
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: them and then go to them and say hey, I'm
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: experiencing this financially abusive relationship, it's domestically violent, they have
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: grants and in the blog post that you've written, g
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: there is a whole heap of resources that people can
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: go to. So I know CBA and NAB both have
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: these programs. And whilst I'm not jumping up and down
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: saying hey, these guys have amazing savings accounts in really
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: great interest rates, which you know we talk about as
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: being a pro in this situation, your priority isn't a
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: good interest rate, It is actually getting the help that
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: you need and knowing where the resources are.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: So even if you're in a.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Situation where you cannot get access to any money, there
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: are people out there, and there are institutions out there
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: that are going to hold your hand through this. You
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: just need to know where to go. And this post
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: that you've put together or it's half written now, but
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: it's going to be on the blog by Wednesday. But
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: it is an incredible resource and we've spent a lot
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: of time pulling it together. The other thing that I
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: think is really really important here is putting together your
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: own budget. Often, if you are in a financially abusive relationship,
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: it is inequitable, so you are not going to be
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: able to maintain the same level of lifestyle that you
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: had in that relationship. So you need to create a
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: budget of the bare minimums. So what is it going
• 19:51
  Speaker 4: to cost you each and every single month to rent
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: out your own apartment or rent out a studio, or
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: rent out a room in a sharehouse? What is your
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: budget for rent? How are you going to put a
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: roof over your head? Yeah, and even if you don't
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: have the capital for that, I think it's important to
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: understand your bare minimum Like, if you've got children, what
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: are their expense? Is just get yourself into a position
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: where you are as educated as you possibly can be.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: And I know that that is incredibly confronting. So it
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: is very hard to sit down and do a budget
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: when you know you don't have any money coming in
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: and you feel helpless and lost and that it is
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: all too overwhelming. But I guarantee you you are going
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: to be in a more empowered position knowing, Okay, my
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: bare minimum expenses for a month are going to be
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: eighteen hundred dollars and I could get by, like I could,
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: you know, feed my children. I could put a roof
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: over their head. That's what this is going to cost.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: So that moving forward, not everything is up in the air.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Some really good advice there, Victoria. Now, in preparation for
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: this episode, I was having a look at the ABS
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: website this week and it read that nearly two million
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Australians have or will have experienceience financial abuse over the
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: course of their lives, which is obviously.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: An appalling number.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Victoria, how can we put ourselves in a position where
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: this won't happen to us?
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: So?
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: I think the number one thing here is about transparency.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: It is about you understanding your financial situation as a whole.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: So there's no right or wrong when it comes to money.
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: And this is what makes this topic so complex and
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: so hard to discuss, because for some couples, one party
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: not working is absolutely normal and it's completely acceptable and
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: it works really well. The issue is when you are
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: in a situation where you don't have complete transparency of
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: your financial life and you feel as though it's been withheld.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: So that is very different from you going, hey, I've
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: never looked at the statements that my husband leaves on
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: the bench because I'm just not interested. It is very
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: different than that. It is people withholding information from you.
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: It is having a partner who says, oh, we've got
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: these investment properties, but when you start asking what rent
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: gets paid, they're like, don't you worry about that, I've
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: got that covered. So it's more about understanding each and
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: every single thing. And if you're in a situation where
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: your partner does leave the bank statements out but you
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: haven't taken the time to look, now is a really
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: great time to just start being across it. Yep. You
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: don't have to start paying the bills to understand how
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: much your electricity costs each month, or how much money
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: is sitting in your bank account and what you are spending.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: This doesn't mean that.
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: You need to jump up and down and go, oh
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: my gosh, I don't know what's in my bank accounts.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: My husband has withheld this from me, or my partner
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: has withheld this from me. It's more about saying, Okay,
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: I just want to take more of an interest in
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: this situation. It doesn't mean going gung ho on it
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: from the beginning, because often that can be quite jarring
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: to your partner if they've been managing that for you
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: for so long. But it's about just starting to give
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: a little bit more of an interest in your financial life,
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: knowing that financial independence is the most important thing for you.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: We touched on them briefly before Victoria, but what other
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: red flags should we be looking out for.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: Obviously it's going to be different for everyone, So if
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: you resonated with any of the conversation that we've had
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: thus far, it's definitely worthy of further consideration and thought.
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: But also, if you're in a situation where you are
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: being asked to sign documents without fully understanding what you
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: are signing, that's financial abuse. If you are in a
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: situation where a family member is forcing you to claim
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: for benefits that you know you're not entitled to, that's
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: financial abuse. If you're in a situation where a family
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: member is forcing you to go as a guaranteur on
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: a loan or making a family member take out a
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: loan in their name. That's financial abuse. The same goes
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: for friends. If you've got someone who was racking up
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: debt in your name, that's financial abuse. Selling possessions of
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: yours without your permission, that's financial abuse. Or if you're
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: in a situation and I'm sure we'll talk about it
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: later where someone is force seeing a family member to
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: change their will or change something legally about ownership structures,
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: that is financial abuse. There is so many different factors
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: to this, but at the end of the day, it
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: actually comes down to making sure that you're not following
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: someone blindly and you have complete transparency of your financial
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: situation and access to your own money.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: So we're not saying, you know.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: You need to be completely in control of it, and
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: you need to be moving money between accounts yourself. Just
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: across it. Understand what it is. What's your Internet banking password?
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: Should you need to ever go in there? How do
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: you do that?
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: What does that look like?
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: This is so heavy, Victoria, I'm like shaking over here.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: This is a really bloody hard conversation to have before
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: we move on. I guess is there anything else you
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: want to touch on that we should be across.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So Obviously all of that is really heavy to cover,
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: but it is so essential that we know what's going
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: on with our money and we know what's going on
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: with our own personal financi Situations like these things go
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: hand in hand with domestic and emotional abuse, and that
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: is something I would never wish upon anybody. So I
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: think being in control of a situation means if we
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: are ever subjected to something like that.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: We have the option to leave.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: We have spoken about the concept of an emergency fund
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: before and the freedom that I believe that gives you
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: to leave a situation you don't want to be in.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: We're not just talking about having an emergency fund for
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: a car repair that was unexpected. We're talking about having
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: an emergency fund that enables you with the opportunity to
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: leave a situation that you don't want to be in,
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: whether that is an employer that you don't want to
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: work for any more, a country that you've found yourself
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: stuck in, or a relationship that you no longer want
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: to be in. An emergency fund is going to be
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: something that is really important to you to enable financial freedom.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: So financial freedom is something that we talk about in
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: a very holistic way. We say, you know what, we
• 25:54
  Speaker 4: want you to have financial freedom in your life so
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: that you know one day you don't have to work.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: What I'm talking about here is a fund that just
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: enables choice and that is the biggest stepping stone for
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: me for financial freedom.
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: I also really want to.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: Point out that if anyone is making you feel like
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: you are incompetent with money, that's not acceptable. You are competent,
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: you are capable, and you are smart enough to understand
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: the ins and outs of banking and finance. This is
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: not something that is super complex, and that is why
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: we exist. Gee, this is what she's on. The money
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: is about, Like you just need to take an interest
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: in it and it will all fall into place for you,
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: And that is exactly why we do what we do.
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: The impacts of understanding your financial rights are huge, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: the scars of not understanding them properly can last a lifetime.
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: The effects of this are so multifaceted and complex. Impacts
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: of financial abuse and not understanding your finances properly impacts
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: on your social inclusion, your home security, It impacts on
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: your physical and mental health. It can create an added
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: barrier to leaving and abusive relationship it can also impact
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: your access to healthcare. So I think it's really really
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: important that we actually make this a priority for us,
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: even though it is not something that we are all
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: experiencing right here and now, and hopefully none of us
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: listening will experience, because we're putting ourselves in a position
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: where we have that ability, that transparency and the option
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: of leaving when we need.
• 27:26
  Speaker 6: HI.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: Then you've reached the Shoes on the Money mail box.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Do you have a money problem you want help solving.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Do you have a money dilemma you just want to
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: chat about. Victoria is here to help. Every week, we'll
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: be planning your questions to help make sense of a
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: money mess you may have found yourself in. Make a
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: quick recording on your phone and send it through to
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: podcast at Shoesodthemoney dot com dot you, and you might
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: find yourself on the show. But for now, here's today's
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: listener question.
• 27:48
  Speaker 5: Hey, I probably prefer not to give my real name,
• 27:51
  Speaker 5: if that's okay. I just wanted to perhaps ask a
• 27:55
  Speaker 5: question about the best way to deal with this because
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: I think my best friend Minde be in a relationship
• 28:02
  Speaker 5: that's abusive and I just don't really know how to
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: handle it. I don't want her to feel too confronted
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: or shut down.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: So if there's any advice, that would be great. Thanks.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: What a horrible situation, Victoria. My instinct would be that
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: she needs to talk to her friend, even if she
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: can't catch up with her, call her on the phone,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: just get through to her. Yeah, you just need to
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: have this conversation because otherwise she's going.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: To be trapped.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's really really hard because often as an outsider,
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: we're able to see things that the person in that
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: relationship cannot at that point in time. And you know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: we all really want to believe that the people that
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: we know and love, our family members, our friends, people
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: that we work with, live free from violence. So we
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: know that one in three Australian women over the age
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: of fifteen have her A B ordered experiencing some form
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: of abuse in a relationship at some point in their life,
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: which is terrifying. So those stats come from White Ribbon,
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: who are also in our blog post this week. Violence
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: against women actually transcends so many boundaries of age, culture, ethnicity, religion, disability,
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: social economic status. It can literally happen to anyone and everyone,
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: and so I think that it is our obligation as
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: women to come together and support one another. And it's
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: like that friend that you have and you know their
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: partner might not have been faithful, and do you say something?
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: Do you not say something?
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: Obviously it is complete personal discretion. But I believe that
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: we all should be standing together and supporting one another
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: and making sure that we can offer support, no matter
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: how big or how small, to a friend that we
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: see is in need.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: And how would you do that in this situation?
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Be it can be really hard.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: It can be so hard to offer appropriate support or
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: intervene in a circumstance where there is domestic or financial abuse. Nonetheless,
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: there is a growing number of people asking how do
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: we support people going through the situation? And our resource
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: on our blog is going to outline all of the resources.
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to read them off, but one of
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: the most important thing is asking that person how you
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: can support them. So sometimes they want support, sometimes they
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: do not want support. And it is a very fickle topic.
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: Whilst we are working very hard to make money not
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: a taboo subject anymore. So many people perceive financial and
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: domestic abuse as being a private family matter. It is
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: something that often people don't want you to interfere with
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't. It just means
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: you need to be incredibly mindful about how you go
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: about that. How do you have that conversation? Obviously, being
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: really confrontational can be quite jarring for someone who might
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: not even know that that is not acceptable behavior. So
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: I think we need to put our personal opinions to
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: the side for this one for a second and go, Okay,
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: how can I actually support this person and what does
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: that mean? We have an obligation as women to speak
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: out and not remain silent on something like this. The
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: only way we can limit this happening is if we
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: all come together and support one another. If done sensitively,
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: expressions of your concern and support can help a woman
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: who is facing a financially abusive relationship to make them
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: feel less isolated and reinforce the message that this is
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: never acceptable and it should never be tolerated. You need
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: to make sure that you're approaching it in a really
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: sensitive manner.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I can imagine there'd be quite an element of shame
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Absolutely, because everyone's in denial about this situation.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: You don't want to be there. As I mentioned, earlier
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: on the podcast.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: People who are financially abusing or domestically abusing you often
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: make you isolated from your family and friends, so it
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: can be very hard.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Which is a disguised so you.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Can reach out to a friend and just express your concern. Hey,
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: you're not being yourself lately. Do you want to have
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: a chat? Do you want to have a coffee?
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: You know what? Do you want to come over for
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: a cup of tea?
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: If it's a financial thing and she's worried about that
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: coffee showing up on her bank card, saying things like
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: I've noticed that you've been pretty withdrawn lately, I'm a
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: bit worried about what's going on can be really good
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: icebreakers for this conversation. Being really confrontational. Whilst we all
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: feel quite confrontational when it's not happening to us. We
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: can be like, this is unacceptable, I'm not going to
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: have this. I'm not standing for this, my friend. It's
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: not helpful to approach this situation like that and be patient,
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: don't force this issue. It might have to come up
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: a number of times before she feels like she genuinely
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: can open up to you, and don't be offended.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: If your friend.
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: Chooses not to disclose to you the situation that's going on,
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: even if you can see it right in front of you.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: I think it's really important to understand that it's such
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: a common misconception that people once you say, hey, I
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: can see what you're going on, they go, yeap, no problems.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: I understand they're going to be in denial.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: And you know what, if they're not fantastic, maybe they've
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: seen it and they're just really grateful that somebody else
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: is seeing things from their perspective, just knowing that they
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: have a friend that they can approach for anything.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: That's the main thing.
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: So whilst this person who has sent us a hotline question,
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: you know, really cares about their friend, I thought, I
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: think we also need to be quite pragmatic about our
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: approach and make sure that it is the.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: Right approach for that situation.
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: Sometimes things are far more dramatic and you actually do
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: need to intervene because your friend is at risk, and
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: that at that point, that's where you do contact authorities,
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: you do call the police, you do have conversations that
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: you really really need to have. But if you think
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: that your friend's in a financially abusive relationship, and you
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: know you want to have that conversation. I think you
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: need to broach it lightly.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: And what if you're not completely sure that they aren't
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: a fully blown financially abusive relationship. If you just have
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: a suspicion, would you still bring it up with them
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: or would you just leave it?
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: See what happens.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I'm imagining it would be better to intervene subtly, But do.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: You have any words?
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: I think intervene is probably not the right word here,
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: because if it's a subtle incline, if it's a subtle feeling,
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: that that might not be right.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: We also need to be really aware.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: That everybody manages their financial lives differently, and I've spoken
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: about this. Even my partner and I we manage our
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: finances a little bit differently to the next couple. So
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: I think it's important for the person thinking this to say,
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: all right, well, maybe they've just got different opinions than
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: I have around finances and how to manage those. And
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: that's where money stories and money conversations come into it.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: Have more conversations with your friends and your family about money.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: Understand where they're coming from. Maybe they're just closed about
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: it because they're not ready to talk about their money story.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: And that is completely fine.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: But I think having this conversation with your friends and
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: your family about your experiences with money and what is
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: and isn't acceptable can be really empowering.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: As promised, this week, we have a bit of a
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: special money to Eary format. We're going to head straight
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: into a chat with the very honest, very brave, thirty
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: and financially confident he she is.
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: One of the biggest side effects of financial abuse or
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: emotional abuse growing up is not having confidence and having
• 35:14
  Speaker 6: low self esteem because I didn't really think I was
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: worth much, and I felt like I wasn't a very
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: good person because I was constantly told I was being
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: very selfish, and I am a taker and I take
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: all of these things and I never give, and I
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: am the worst person on earth. These are sort of
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: the very normal things I get to hear all the
• 35:40
  Speaker 6: time in a FI and I look at the people
• 35:43
  Speaker 6: around me and the support network that I've built around me,
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: and that is the validation that I need to know
• 35:51
  Speaker 6: that I am a good person and that I do
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: give a lot, and I am a very supportive partner
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: and friends to my friends so that has really been
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: my saving grace in all of this. When my parents split,
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: they lived in different countries, so it kind of plays
• 36:18
  Speaker 6: into it because I realized how she controls people with money, essentially,
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: so my father worked for her and she paid for everything,
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: and when they split, she still continued to financially support him,
• 36:33
  Speaker 6: and so he was always kind of there at her
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: beck and call whenever she needed. And I felt like
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: he had to be a mediator between the two of us,
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: and he always had to keep that up and couldn't separate.
• 36:49
  Speaker 6: And I saw that as an example of me not
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: being able to separate from her, and it was very
• 36:55
  Speaker 6: disheartening to see. So I felt like there was no
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: way I could ever put up a boundary that's healthy,
• 37:04
  Speaker 6: because she's made a system around her that didn't allow that.
• 37:08
  Speaker 6: Growing up, I was quite privileged living overseas and then
• 37:14
  Speaker 6: coming back to Australia, living in a nice suburb, going
• 37:17
  Speaker 6: to private schools, being able to go on holidays. Growing
• 37:21
  Speaker 6: up in this lifestyle, I was quite aware of the
• 37:25
  Speaker 6: privilege because my parents would often tell me how lucky
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: I am and use that as a point to make
• 37:34
  Speaker 6: sure I was a good kid, you know, You're very lucky.
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: People don't get the privilege to do this, so be grateful.
• 37:42
  Speaker 6: My mum was a bit of a workaholic and never around,
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: and money was her way of, in her words, was
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: her way of showing us how lucky we are and
• 37:53
  Speaker 6: how much.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: She loved us.
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: I had to always show that I was incredibly grateful
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: for what I was given, and I was, and I
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: wanted to prove myself to being financially independent and show
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: my gratefulness by saying, I've lived in a really great
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: childhood and I want to use this opportunity to make
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: something of myself and to show you that your money
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: is well spent. Essentially, But no matter how good of
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: a child I was, I was unable to get the
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: love and validation I was seeking. And it was always
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: just every one of my actions was conditional to what
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: they were giving me, and my mother especially would try
• 38:41
  Speaker 6: it felt like control me as I was growing up,
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: by using that as her argument. No matter how well
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: I did, if I slipped up slightly and wasn't the
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: perfect child, then a range of arguments would come up,
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: including I chose to feed you, I chose to clothe you,
• 39:01
  Speaker 6: and put a roof over your head. It was very
• 39:03
  Speaker 6: normalized by the time I grew up with her lending
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: money out and then using that to keep people close,
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: and it happened to a lot of family members. I
• 39:16
  Speaker 6: could always see the intention at the beginning, which is
• 39:20
  Speaker 6: why it was so hard for me to be independent
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: later on in life. Was it did come out of
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: a place of love and care for the people around her.
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: She was better financially off and therefore wanted to help
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: the people around her, but in turn she needed to
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: use that to keep people around her. You know, I
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: don't want to dive too deep into the psychology of it,
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: but it was a tool for controlling and to keep
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: people close for validation. I was constantly trying to prove
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: myself that I don't need the money to love my
• 39:55
  Speaker 6: own mother or anyone like. I grew very I didn't
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: care about any of the superficial possessions or gifts. And
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: I really credit myself and being able to go to
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: a therapist really early on in life, when I was eighteen,
• 40:13
  Speaker 6: and I haven't stopped since then. I realized as a person,
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: I find happiness and relationships and or to be the
• 40:25
  Speaker 6: most substantial thing for me rather than possessions. When I
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: moved out, it was quite an intense situation with my
• 40:35
  Speaker 6: mum because she wanted me to live at home and
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: I felt that that wasn't the healthiest thing for me.
• 40:43
  Speaker 6: So I moved out and she insisted on paying for rent.
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: So I didn't take a job, and whenever I did,
• 40:51
  Speaker 6: I did do casual work in retail, and I was
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: constantly being berated to quit because it was beneath me
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: to work in retail. In her, you know, her words,
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: I should be focusing more on my studies and I
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: should be focusing more on the bigger picture, and that
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: she was there to support me, and I didn't feel
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: like I actually had an option. So I took the
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: financial support when I was at UNI, and I continued
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: to do that for my undergrad essentially, and it created
• 41:26
  Speaker 6: a lot of problems within our relationship because I was
• 41:30
  Speaker 6: out of home. It just got more tense between the
• 41:34
  Speaker 6: two of us, and I just really tried to stand
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: my ground and was feel like I was really going
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: up against something way bigger than I was actually able
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: to handle, which caused a lot of mental stress. But
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: I would try. I would stick to my jobs, you know,
• 41:53
  Speaker 6: despite being told not to, and I would try really
• 41:58
  Speaker 6: hard to save that money so that I had something
• 42:01
  Speaker 6: to fall back on. I had a lot of shame
• 42:04
  Speaker 6: around what was happening. People around me, you know, would
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: work and were struggling and were students or were in debt,
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: and I had a lot of support, but I was
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: quite unhappy, so I felt like I couldn't talk about
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: it with anybody, and even my own therapist until the
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: fights with my mother got really intense and I had.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: To bring it up. I just I was kind of at.
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: My wits end. Realized through that my therapist really helped
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: me understand what was going on and letting me understand
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: that having healthy boundaries also meant financial boundaries and not
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: getting the support even though it was it would be really.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Hard because I.
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: Was relying on it for so long, it was the
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: best thing for me to do. So from realizing to
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: actually being independent took a while because there was a
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: lot of little step yep. But that's when I realized
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: was maybe around my mid twenties, early to mid twenties.
• 43:08
  Speaker 6: I could see how other people around me were struggling
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: and or finding their footing and not having help and
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: talking about borrowing a little bit of a little amount
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: of money from their parents to immediately pay it back.
• 43:23
  Speaker 6: And I wasn't in that same situation, and I didn't
• 43:27
  Speaker 6: know anyone that was really in that same situation. I
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: felt because I didn't know anybody going through it, I
• 43:36
  Speaker 6: felt quite a lot of shame around it, and I
• 43:39
  Speaker 6: felt like I felt shame because I didn't feel I
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: was really my own person as well. Setting boundaries with
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: my mom took a lot of energy. I spent so
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: much time thinking about it first off, and reflecting and
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: talking to my therapist. My therapist was very, very concerned
• 44:07
  Speaker 6: and wanted me to set very hard boundaries, and every
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: time I did, it would blow up in my face
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: and be quite an explosive fight. I was working for
• 44:17
  Speaker 6: my mum right after graduating. It ended up being really
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: destructive to our relationship, and I decided to stop talking
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: to her, and that was quite hard on me. We
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: didn't speak for six months or more, I think, and
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: she was constantly trying to reach out in all these
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: different ways, and also using my father to tell me
• 44:48
  Speaker 6: that I would regret it if we didn't make up
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: and it would be my fault if our relationship crumbled
• 44:55
  Speaker 6: and you should be the bigger person, you know, And
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: I was trying to set quite a hard boundary. I
• 45:03
  Speaker 6: obviously quit working for her and I wanted to move out.
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: I had moved back in as well for a short
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: period of time into her house, and I wanted to
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: move out, and she literally said, you are not allowed
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: to leave. You cannot move out, and I didn't know
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: what to do. I thought I had no options until
• 45:30
  Speaker 6: I continued to set that boundary. I really pushed through,
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: no matter how hard it was for me, and having
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: the space really helped me reflect on what was happening.
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: And moving out was also just the best thing for
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: me at the time, even though that was quite hard.
• 45:50
  Speaker 6: The boundaries a set, but it's not being entirely respected.
• 45:56
  Speaker 6: I received a car for my birthday. I didn't want it.
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: My car was fine. I actually had a huge breakdown
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: over it because I was gifted this thing and I
• 46:10
  Speaker 6: thought it was everything I get given from my mother
• 46:13
  Speaker 6: is conditional. So I just didn't want anything to be
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: over my head. I don't want to be told that
• 46:21
  Speaker 6: I give you this, therefore you should do this. And
• 46:24
  Speaker 6: I had that freedom for a little bit now, and
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: to be given that I just felt so upset. Growing up,
• 46:34
  Speaker 6: I always wanted to have my say and wanted to
• 46:38
  Speaker 6: break away and tell and tell her you know you're
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: hurting me, and she could never hear that because it
• 46:44
  Speaker 6: would mean to her that she was a bad person.
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: We've overcome the car situation. I've just accepted it. I
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: tell myself that I accept this gift as a gift
• 46:56
  Speaker 6: in its own merit, and I try not to put
• 46:58
  Speaker 6: any baggage on it. I try not to put any
• 47:02
  Speaker 6: of the past into things in the present.
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: And.
• 47:07
  Speaker 6: I essentially the early way forward for me is to
• 47:11
  Speaker 6: appease her instead of going up against her, and just
• 47:16
  Speaker 6: tell her, thank you, You're a great you know, a
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: great mother, and this is great, and it seems to
• 47:21
  Speaker 6: be working. Having an honest conversation with her doesn't seem possible.
• 47:28
  Speaker 6: And what I've learnt through therapy is you can only
• 47:31
  Speaker 6: control yourself when it comes to any form of abuse.
• 47:35
  Speaker 6: You can't try and make someone be something different. So
• 47:40
  Speaker 6: I've changed myself to be more patient and also to
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: give myself more rather than trying to please the person
• 47:48
  Speaker 6: that is hurting me in like the most extreme way.
• 47:52
  Speaker 6: So I set a lot of boundaries in only being
• 47:56
  Speaker 6: able to see her when I'm available, only being able
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: to give her things when I have the ability to.
• 48:04
  Speaker 6: So I do have the ability to tell her what
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: she wants to hear, which is she's a good mum.
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: Because I'm a lot more sure of myself now and
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: I have a lot more confidence than myself, and I
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: know saying that doesn't change who I am. I have
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: a partner and he's very understanding. And my past partner
• 48:26
  Speaker 6: was also very understanding, but saw me as a person
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: of a lot of privilege, and sometimes that would come
• 48:33
  Speaker 6: out in being called a princess and so forth, and
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: I would hate it so much. But my current partner is, yeah,
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: super understanding, understands where that stems from. And ever since
• 48:48
  Speaker 6: she's on the money came on, I haven't stopped talking
• 48:50
  Speaker 6: about it to him, and he's very excited for me
• 48:54
  Speaker 6: to have autonomy and confidence over my finances. And so
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: it doesn't aff affect us so much because I am
• 49:03
  Speaker 6: in the situation I am today and I have found
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: with my closest girlfriends being open to them about it.
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: Previously I was so ashamed, but being open to them
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: about it, I found that they've been really understanding, and
• 49:18
  Speaker 6: I realized that no matter what, the people who around
• 49:22
  Speaker 6: you who love you will always be very understanding of
• 49:26
  Speaker 6: your story. So it is quite good to be open
• 49:29
  Speaker 6: to them.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: And that is all we have time for today.
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: If this is something that you or someone you know
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: is struggling with, the show Notes have a really great
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: number of resources for you to use if you need them.
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: And if you still feel like you need a friend,
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: please feel free to reach out to me and I.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: Can help point you in the right direction.
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: If you know that someone is going through this or
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: you were going through this, though, we can recommend that
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: you call dvconnect Women's Line on one eight hundred eight
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: double one eight double one, the Kids Help on one
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: eight hundred five five one eight hundred, or the National
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: Sexual Assault and Domestic and Family Violence Counseling Service on
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: one eight hundred respect one eight hundred seven three seven
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: seven three to two.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: And now it's time to quickly wrap the boring but
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: important stuff. The advice shared on She's on the Money
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: is general in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: She's on the Money exists purely for educational purposes and
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: should not be relied upon to make an investment or
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: financial decision. Oh and yes, don't worry, we promise. Victoria
• 50:32
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• 50:36
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• 50:42
  Speaker 2: And of course thanks to our friend Ryan John for
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: helping us put together today's show.
• 50:46
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• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Sending lots of love guys
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: For you next week