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The Tax Strategy Rich People Use (But Never Talk About) - With Daniel Lake · The Accounting Leads Now Podcast

• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: How was Beverly Hills?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I immediately thought of Beverly Hills Ninja.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Beverly.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is that that wouldn't be driving distance, would it?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it'd be probably a nine to ten hour drive.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Long enough.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Depending on traffic.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I I I I flew out of Provo.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's an easy two-hour flight.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So oh wow.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was pretty easy.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but yeah, no, it was fun.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was good.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sweet.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm pumped for uh for this today.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be fun.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, me too.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: All right, I was just getting these some some questions as a guideline finalized here, and then we'll we'll jump right into it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything specific that you wanted to cover outside of what you put in the in those questions?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you filling those out as well.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think we had a bug with the that calendar form.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um the short answer is no.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I I uh I I don't like to be too scripted in general.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I want I want to be organic, like like we're we're two buddies sitting around a campfire.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not not not too casual that it's like, oh, these guys are just like talking about football.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're just like I obviously want to have some substance there, but uh but anyway, but I I like I said I don't I don't like being too robotic.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, perfect.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds good.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I got I got some things ready here.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's super casual, be like 25, 30 minutes or so, and we'll just kind of run through it and and have some fun.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and if there's um anything in particular that you didn't like the question, whatever it is, just feel free to say, hey, let's cut that out and we'll we'll do our best to try to cut it out in the uh post-production.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: What uh what what do you think is the most compelling, or what what do you think it or what what what have you seen in your past uh episodes that has that that you liked the most or you feel like uh you know brought the most the most value?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let me um pull up real quick here.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So usually usually around strategy, I think that's where we've got the highest kind of listens, and then depending on how people promote them, um through us or on their side, but yeah, I think this will be a great episode because we're gonna get into I mean I have here that you've saved you've helped clients save over 40 million dollars in taxes.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that accurate or is it higher?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's it's uh uh it's it's growing all the time.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but uh I think it'll be it'll be great because we'll get into very tactical stuff that people can use and and why it's beneficial, and and then of course how they can get in touch with you.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, awesome.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll I'll read a quick intro here, have a slight pause, and then uh we'll jump right into the episode.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds great.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of CFO Chronicles, the secrets behind success.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest isn't your run-of-the-mill tax professional.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: He's the guy who makes the IRS nervous.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Dan Lake is the founder of Tax Equity Pros, a firm that's helped high net worth clients save over 40 million in taxes.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, even W-2 earners.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: He believes there's nothing enlightened about tipping the government, calls mortgages a scam, and knows how to turn complex solar incentives into simple money-saving moves.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: If you've ever wondered how to keep more of your hard-earned cash or whether the financial rules we all follow are actually myths, you're in the right place.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Daniel, welcome to the show.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Let's blow up some money myths.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: For the uh the the the chuckle that the uh he thinks he thinks mortgages are a scam.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: If that ain't click, but I don't know what it is, but that's we can No, it's it's it's good.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm super pumped uh to have you on the show to dive into what you're doing.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would love to know kind of out of the gate, what first pulled you into the world of tax mitigation and solar incentives?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is this what you thought you'd be doing growing up as a as a young boy in Utah?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, this uh this this industry didn't exist.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh at the time and when I was in high school uh 25 years ago, but uh but if it was, so man, I I I I I think it it checks all the boxes for me.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm kind of a non-conformist in uh at heart.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh not not to say that I want to break the rules for the sake of breaking the rules, but uh, but if something doesn't make sense to me, I'm I'm gonna question it.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and that uh that got me in trouble when I was in school growing up.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: They uh the teachers did not like my uh my me questioning their their authority just because they're they they start with Mr.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: or Mrs.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: or what have you.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, yeah, I'm I'm just a non-conformist.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like I said, I I I've I've always carved my own path.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um but but no, this is not I I I I accidentally uh fell into this space.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or rather, necessity is the uh the mother of invention, I would say.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, amazing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how how did you get into this space then?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's obviously it wasn't around, like you said, when you were growing up, it was you kind of fell into it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: You've been a maybe a rule breaker, but just looking if something doesn't make sense, you want to make make the most of it, understand what's going on.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get into what you're doing right now?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so I I I've been in the solar space for the last 11 years.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I I started in I I ran a pest control company, you know, before that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then for for about a year and a half, two years, I was I was doing, I I had a pest control company that was uh operating in four different states.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh I I just I I randomly you know met a guy on an airplane once that was telling me about solar, solar incentives and solar uh uh that this this business model.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, man, but if I'm being honest, like there's only so much satisfaction you can get in life in uh killing bugs.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I mean, there's nothing wrong with killing bugs.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot about I know a lot about uh entomology and bugs and bug killing and and and that business model and things, but the but the solar space really, really interest me, interested me, I should say.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I anyways, uh, you know, got in got into sales, uh, got sold my pest control company in 2015, um, and uh and really ran with the the the solar the solar stuff.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was just so uh I thought it was so cool that like man, like people could take uh they could take these raw materials and create electricity from the freaking sun, and they could take money that was gonna go to uh to the government to uh to to taxes, and they could put that towards uh uh their energy independence that way.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, freedom and independence is probably what my is like my my one of my core values that really lines lines up with me.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh anyway, I I uh with as we we progress and we we had a uh we we were we were uh EPC, which is uh um energy.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Basically we were an installer.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I won't I won't I won't bore you listeners with uh with uh solar jargon that way.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so it became an installer.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: We were doing we did a bunch of uh uh commercial to off-grid, some uh uh residential as well, and and learned a lot about the space, but there was a major uh void in the uh in the industry where there was just there was not really good uh financing options available.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm taking a long way to get to to ask your question.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did I get I know solar bug business, like that that's that has how does that have to do with the with the with with tax mitigation strategies?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting there.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right, just just hey no relax.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're good.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on the edge of the seat.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I brought I brought the whole seat, but I'm I'm only using the edge right now.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so okay, it and I I'm just gonna give a little bit of background as to why um that there are there there's some problems in the solar space in the solar industry.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um solar does not make sense for most people.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I would uh I I it it kind of blew my mind sometimes when I would, I would, I would talk to people in my neighborhood or people that I and they would they knew that I was in the solar space and I would ask them some questions about their roof or their or uh or or their financial situation.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was a like if if somebody's a first year teacher and they're uh and they're and they're living paycheck to paycheck and they and they've heard that solar can save them a lot of money, potentially, okay.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't if somebody doesn't make enough money that they they they don't pay taxes, for example, then the tax credits, the incentives, they're not gonna do them any good.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: The other the other thing that's a uh very uh less well known in the space is just how expensive uh loans are in the solar space.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like if okay, let's say you get a uh a$30,000 uh solar deal and or project and you and uh you have the solar, yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say you have a battery and uh like and that and that would just if that would be your cash price would be 30 grand.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you were to get a sexy 2.9% 25 year solar loan, that would add about 30% or more to uh to it's I've seen 35%, whatever it's just in dealer fees and or origination fees.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that$30,000 solar uh at with a you know if that that costs you an extra ten thousand dollars just for you can get the sexy financing and the low and the low uh monthly payment that way.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, I'm like, oh God, that's terrible.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we why are we tipping the banks?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: What are we like I'll go back to your uh your other uh uh chuckle earlier about uh you know mortgages being a scam.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think that they are.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think that's a terrible way to pay off your house.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't want to and I don't want to digress you know too much about but but I mean gosh, you have a 30-year no on a on a standard mortgage, on a conventional mortgage, you're paying in the first 15 years, you're paying all the interest up front.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's terrible.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's anyway.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, I don't want like I said, don't want to digress too much, but there's too much like there's better ways to pay off your house than with a that or to buy a house than than with a mortgage.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, you may have touched on it a little bit already, but I guess when or was there a moment when you realize this is a strategy almost nobody is using, but everyone needs.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm uh I'm taking a long time to get to the point, James.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for uh for bringing back.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's all good.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's all good.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: So no, so there was this huge boy.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: There was uh like yeah, uh I had a hard time selling uh solar loans because I think because they were expensive and I didn't feel good about it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um I spent the better part of two years, so 2018, uh uh going into 2020, I met with a bunch of different CPAs, tax attorneys, consultants in this space, and I would and I went to them and I said, Hey, there's gotta be a better way to finance for someone to get solar.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and so what so I designed a solar lease, or it's technically a PPA or power purchase agreement, where a homeowner could uh replace a$500 a month power bill with a$400 a month solar payment, and uh, and and they could buy the system later on at a later date for pennies on the dollar.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the system itself would be owned by a dentist or a doctor or an attorney or some high net worth individual who could take who would own that asset on this uh this this person's house, they could take all of the depreciation, all of the tax credits, and they could cash flow that asset um for at least five years.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so my my elevator pitch, you know, as and to to the high net worth individual or a tax planner is that for every dollar that they put into one of our deals, they're going to get a dollar fifty, dollar eighty, sometimes two dollars in tax benefit and cash flow.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm happy to get, well, I think we'll get into the nitty-gritty of how that all works.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but that's that's really how I got into this uh into the tax equity space was there was a huge need uh for solar financing.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so so anymore now now what I do is uh I I we are a financing option for uh a handful of different solar sales and install companies in Texas, in California, and uh and and we we we provide you know that financing for the for a homeowner uh through a through a PPA, but the systems themselves are owned by a by a high net worth individual.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I work exclusively in the in the tax equity space now.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh anyway, I I appreciate your patience, James.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know that was a that was a long, long bridge to get here, but it's a it's been 10 years in the making.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you touched on it a little bit earlier on how, say, maybe someone just getting started out in their career as a W 2, it doesn't make sense for them.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a bit of a myth in the solar space.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: How does it work or benefit for those who are in a W-2 position and getting solar, it it is beneficial for them compared to maybe someone who's just getting started out doesn't have enough income where it actually offsets and it it helps them out?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think I like I said, from for most people, uh I would not buy I would not buy solar on your personal residence.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: You can't depreciate it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not a it's not a business asset.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you're if you're if the cost of electricity is relatively low in your uh in your neck of the woods, I probably wouldn't do it, to be perfectly honest with you.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but with with our with our model, um it this it's really roddens uh the base for for the sort of people who who do want to get solar, they could get it, they get a solar lease.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but if it but but let me uh let me shift gears just a little bit.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um solar makes absolute perfect sense on the uh on on on the investment side.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say so uh let so let's say I I'm I'm talking to uh I'm talking to a doctor, and let's say he has and and he let's say he's a surgeon, he's got a million-dollar tax bill.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I I come to him, I'm gonna show him this strategy.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, like I said, we'll get we'll get into the nitty-gritty, we'll get into the nuts and bolts.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but essentially, uh I uh I'm gonna say, okay, you you've got a million-dollar tax bill.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, I'm not doing any tax tax advising or whatever.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I've I I've already talked to his CPA.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: CPA is uh as as say has said, hey, I think this is a good uh this is a good strategy for you.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you talk to Dan and he can uh build out a portfolio for you.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: But essentially, instead of make making that million dollar payment to the IRS, he can spend the you know$550 and put that towards these solar deals, and he is going to net that uh it was he's gonna save that million dollars in uh in in taxes that he was otherwise gonna go to the IRS.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, to tie this in to all of our listeners, we've had a chance to work together, and a lot of what you do is getting in front and making connections with CPAs, getting making connections with tax professionals, tax planners.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're getting into a different space.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But for those listening, how can everyone benefit from having a relationship with you?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear from from your words how how the listeners could benefit from working with you because it's not this is not just about solar.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: This this goes wider to the listeners and the service you offer and how it really complements a lot of CPAs and tax planners out there in the US.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: I like I I I told my story.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not a tax professional.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I don't offer tax advice or uh I don't I don't I don't find out I don't I don't do anything like that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: However, I am I I make tax professionals look like the hero to their clients.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I that like I mo most most tax uh professionals are really good at knowing the law.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a hard business.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a the tax law changes every year, and it's thousands of pages long.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and just to keep up with all of that is is a lot.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: But um what uh what tax professionals really love about about working with me is uh is I I show them a strategy, it's very simple.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's tax credits, it's depreciation, it's cash flows, it's uh it's business ownership.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that uh all of these uh all of these uh deductions and and credits and incentives all passes through to uh to a a high net worth individual's personal return.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: So so instead instead of uh you know you doing the math on this doctor's you know tax bill, it's like, hey, what's the damage?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's it's a million dollars.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, I that that I've I've recently partnered with tax equity professionals, and with through this strategy, they can save you 45% on your overall tax bill, and it's not gonna cost you anything more than what you were otherwise going to pay, anyways.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so so that if you I know that uh most CPAs are not huggers, they're not they they're not lovey people for the most part, they're numbers folks.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I I'd imagine that uh their clients would be so excited.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they'd want to hug their their CPA or their tax professional because uh there we you you were able to open them up to a strategy like this that saves them a massive uh amount of money on the money that was otherwise gone.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I love how you mentioned like you're really you're you're the night behind the scenes making, like you said, everyone else look really good.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's your strategy that you're passing on to who you partner up with, the other CPA's tax professionals, they get to deliver that good news to their client, helps them save an extra 450k.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's certainly not couch change, and then they're happy, you're happy, and it's just it's a great, it's a great program, it's a great strategy you guys are running.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you you've you mentioned there saying in your example, helping a doctor save about 450k.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: You've helped clients in counting save more than 40 million in taxes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share one story, no names needed, um, that really shows what's possible?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like what are what are one of the the best wins or the largest tax savings that stands out to you from from when you've been doing this?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've helped a I've been able to help a lot of people.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I and I think what what a lot of like I said, what a lot of tax professionals like about this is that it works for for W-2 income, capital gains, uh, 1099.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: It it doesn't it doesn't matter.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It really doesn't.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I uh um I was at a conference this last uh this last week in uh it was it was for mergers and acquisitions.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and I and I'll I'll I'll get to uh you know some specific information uh you know examples that way, but uh but I want to talk just real broadly real quick.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um like if somebody's selling their business and then uh and and let's be real, most uh most business owners or most founders are they're they're visionaries.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: They want they they love building the business, they love getting to the next thing or whatever.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: They generally don't plan their exits ahead of time or or really you know you know structure themselves you know accordingly.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um which anyway, so at this conference, that's that's what you know these professionals do.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: They they help you know strategize, plan for the future, and and uh and position these uh these these founders for for their big exit.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um so as part of their overall planning or uh or after the fact, it's like oh crap, now I have a$10 million tax.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, awesome! I sold my company for$22 million.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is amazing.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Now I've got his eight million dollar tax bill.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh it's uh it's it's kind of devastating, and some deals fell through.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I talked to a lot of folks because of the massive tax burden that was incurred at the time of sale.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it can help in so many different ways.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but uh but yeah, just this last year, I uh we I I helped a I helped a guy in that very situation.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: He literally had a two million dollar tax bill, uh, sold his business, didn't really do much planning.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I had I had some uh I had a handful of projects left over from that uh in 20 from 2024 uh that had that qualified for a 2024 credit.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: The uh he came and talked to me in like March of this this year, and he's like, Hey, I've got this big tax bill.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything you can do for me?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it just so yes.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, kind of.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I so I had these deals that were started in 2024, they qualified for the 2024 credit.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: He would but and so he was able to save harbor those credits for uh for last year.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he even though he purchased those deals in 2025, they qualified for 2024 credits and uh and and uh depreciation you know was applied in 2025.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, we were able to save him a massive amount of uh taxes that uh for for somebody who didn't do any planning and and and again made like we we were but kind of behind the scenes, but really his uh uh his CPA looked like the hero.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Two million dollars.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: You like what tell me a little bit about like what what is that feeling like when that finally gets across the line and you see the look on your client's face or your client's client's face and they've saved all this money.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's it's gotta feel amazing.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I think about it.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I I've I've been I've been rich, I've been poor, and uh, and I've been I and kind of everywhere in between.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and you think about it, if somebody's in if somebody's in the top tax bracket, they're paying 37% just in just in federal income taxes.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And let's say they live in California, it's an it's an additional 13% of state income taxes, uh, if they're if they're in that top bracket.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: So 50 cents of every dollar they make goes to the government in some form or fashion before they ever even see it.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's so demoralizing.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and and I I'm and politically speaking, I'm probably about as far to the right as you can possibly possibly go.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I've I know in in our economy that that's the and you not everybody agrees with me on this, but I but we are better stewards of our resources, of the of our hard-earned money.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I earn this money.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm gonna be I'm gonna be way more intentional about how this uh how this gets invested, how this, you know, I can you know goes back into my company, I can uh I can pay my my employees better.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: I can do I can do so much more with this money the government can for special programs or or some senator's vacation or what have you like no, like there's it's the the money is better, is it's just better leveraged in the in the earned it in the first place.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, it feels it feels really good.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's per this is a perfect alignment with who I am and my my personal values.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, that's awesome.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I as you're talking about the different percentages, I just can't help but laugh in pain being from Canada and what our tax brackets are and how much how much of our money goes back to the government before we even see it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, there's just not like nearly as many opportunities as in the US for for tax reduction strategy.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I as much as I enjoy you know hearing this, it's also a little painful being north of the border.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know, and that's a boot.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Pardon?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just candidate.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um lame dad jokes.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: My bad, James.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's all good, it's all good.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: The the for the CPAs out there, those in the finance space who aren't offering, say, tax strategy or who aren't doing anything with tax, but it's a big opportunity for them to still make a lot of revenue for their firm because their clients are looking for it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: What should they be looking for criteria-wise for say um either tax equity pros or like a another like what should they be looking for when it comes to a tax strategist so that they can help their clients win and in return they win?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great question.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I there's lots of tax strategies out there.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's oil and gas, there's uh I there's tribal credits, there's whatever, like it's it's it's a big, it's a big world out there.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I and and and there's pros and cons to everything.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think in my in in my in my experience, uh most CPAs want something that, for one, makes sense, has low audit risk that way, and uh is is because gosh, the worst thing that uh that they that uh a tax professional you know would you know his biggest nightmare is to create uh a headache or or or just problems with the IRS down, you know, in the in the future.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh like yeah, we want to save money, but we also don't want to fight.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want we don't want to create unnecessary uh drama uh in our in our lives or in our clients' lives, right?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh well, I I I tease my my uh tax attorney that he couldn't go to a real law school, and so he he just ended up going to Harvard.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't think that that joke's funny, but I think it's hilarious.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: But uh anyway, my attack my tax attorney is like I I've met with a lot of attorneys.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: He is he he's really good.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: He lives in he uh he spends most of the year in uh Puerto Rico for tax reasons.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sure, but uh we we've got a 40-page opinion letter that that backs up every inch of this strategy and uh and make sure that everybody uh you know structures things appropriately.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've I've done this for over a hundred individuals.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we've if it's never once triggered an audit.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I have had two people get audited as part of a that this was looked at and audited as as an overall.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but yeah, it was open-close deal.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: We never had any, we've never had any of these tax uh uh tax uh incentives clawed back, never, not once.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so anyway, so so our CPAs can really feel good about what it is that they're presenting.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they also uh are not disappointed with the uh with the incentives that we provide the uh the CPA as well, as uh as as we we share in those uh in those upsides uh as well.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So every everybody wins.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: If everybody if it's not win-win, it's no deal.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that's great advice.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um re reach out to high net worth individuals.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Not an easy task, they're hard to get a hold of at times.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: What's been the toughest part of getting in front of the right people to for them to be aware of your service?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, great question.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Great question.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I anymore, I don't I don't uh I don't I do don't do any marketing or or contacts high net worth individuals directly anymore.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't like they for one, they don't they they don't understand the their own tax situation well enough to be able to say uh what what's what's an appropriate amount or investment for that that works good well for them.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And also they don't like they they don't understand the tax code well enough.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: They like my my biggest can my biggest objection, which is I still don't know how to really get past, is uh man, this sounds amazing.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: This sound this sounds too good to be true.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: I never ever get that from a CPA who understands how tax credits work, how and how depreciation works, whatever.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh yeah, yeah, five minutes.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: They they they get it, but just like that.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, so my so my my my my challenge anymore is just trying to get in front of more CPAs, more um, you know, attached who understand the the the law and are proactive that want that want to add and provide more value to their clients.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that and and then when they when they refer that doctor or that or their you know businessman or what or what have you, they they they they because I I don't have any credibility, right?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I they don't know me from Adam, they don't like that so that but if the if their CPA says, hey, I would recommend doing this, this would be a good fit, it would save you this much.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Are you interested in talking to this other group that I've uh that I've that I'm partnered with?
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um that then it's you that they feel good about it, you feel good about it.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I keep saying this, but it but everybody wins.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's just no downside.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what's one money habit you wish more high income earners would adopt right now?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll get into a couple uh rapid fire questions, and then we'll uh we'll tie a bow on this.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: So say say your question one more time.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: I want to make sure what what what's one money habit?
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I probably probably could have re-worded that differently, not give you the question and then ramble on for a little bit afterwards.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's my bad.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're good.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: What's one money habit you wish more high income earners would adopt right now?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think I if okay, some high income earner, if uh if you if you're not meeting with your with your tax strategist at least two or three times a year, you're losing money.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not if you're not planning ahead, if you're not if you're not being proactive about some kind of strategy that uh that that mitigates you know that it that's just silly, especially in some places when you're like when you're when you're being taxed at essentially a 50% rate if you live in a blue state, like how how discouraging that is.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like like okay, you could eat you can make way more money and and be taxed at 50 cents on the dollar.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or how about we cut your uh we we have we cut your effective tax rate by 45%?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: What's good what's gonna be better leverage for your time and energy?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean that's that's the no-brainer.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's just that's just that's just silly.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's an easy one.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm trying not to just pull put more plugs into this, but like, because there's other things we can talk about, but there's nothing that's going to have a bigger effect on your on your bottom line than than uh being proactive about your own personal tax strategy.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's just silly.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what's one book or podcast you recommend to anyone who's serious about money?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's circle back to that one.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put us I wish I would, I wish I would have had the rapid fire.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So much for rapid fire when I take a deep breath and I can't.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we're still in the rapid fire range.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: How about this one?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: How about uh the the CFO Chronicles?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: How about that?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for the plug.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's I'm sure there's others out there that you know, probably a little bit higher that uh people could do for listen to but they're serious about money.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's one practical step listeners could take this year to shrink their tax bill if they haven't been listening for the last 30 35 minutes?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's one thing that they could do to uh reduce their tax bill for this year?
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I again I'm but I'm I've I've been I've been here talking about my strategy for this long time, and uh and and I can't I honestly can't think of anything else that's okay that would be better.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: We've we've gone we've gone in depth why why the solar tax credit is is so great.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um last one here who is someone in finance or business that you're learning from today.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's this group that I found a few years ago after I uh after I I I bought my house that uh that they were touting uh you know you could pay off your house in in five to seven years with making no additional money or whatever.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like that sounds suspicious.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: But uh um it was it's this group called the uh replace your mortgage for and they've got other stuff like replace your university.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're like and it and it's all and uh I'm I'm not getting paid for this, and so maybe I maybe I shouldn't promote them too hard.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: But uh anyway, but but as far as book or podcast or whatever, I uh I've gotten a lot of value out of this uh this group.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I paid for uh for a membership a few years ago and uh learned about um different strategies for for paying your home off quickly and and and and other investment stuff.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so so essentially uh one of one of their strategies is to uh uh re uh instead of having a a mortgage, you would have a first position home equity line of credit that you would treat like your you and but you would use it like your your checking account.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you'd get your you'd get your paycheck and you put it into your HELOC and you use it like a checking account, but uh, but all the while, whatever money, so whatever money you're is sitting in your savings account or your or your checking account or whatever, it's since you're not earning any interest on it, it's actually kind of a liability because it's just sitting there.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's not working, it's not doing anything.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's sitting in your HELOC, it's it's driving the uh the principal down during the month.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna and the and the balance is gonna fluctuate, but it's calculated on simple interest, not compound interest like a mortgage is.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: So just taking that strategy, you know, spending less than what you make and have and have uh all of your money sitting in your HELOC versus in low or no interest bearing accounts, that strategy alone will shave off decades uh from uh off of a 30-year mortgage.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought, gosh, that is so brilliant.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's so simple.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Why doesn't everybody do that?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I say earlier about you know uh you know mortgages being a scam, gosh, they're like a little bit of proactivity on on just little daily habits that people have make an enormous difference uh you know over the long term.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you have a let's say you have a uh a paid-off mortgage, you're sitting on 400k or whatever it is of of liquid liquidity that way.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: How easy would it be to purchase a an investment property or in uh or or or a business or a or some kind of limited partnership that way?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Gosh, there's there's so much, there's so much you can do, uh, but but you just can't do what everybody else does.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you're not gonna get ahead.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: You never will.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Last one for you, Dan.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to end all of our podcasts with this question.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go to uh Michael Scott at the office.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, please.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be an idiot.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't be an idiot.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Change my life.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: First my feelings every time.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be an idiot, Michael Scott.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Dan, thank you so much for coming on, sharing um all of your insight, your knowledge.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's always great chatting with you.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: But um, how how can people get in touch with you if they want to continue the conversation?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: They want to see what it'd be like to potentially work with you and help their clients win more by being connected with you.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can check out our website, it's uh tax equityprose.com.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you can also find me on LinkedIn.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's uh yeah, my my name is Dan Lake.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's uh TaxequityPros Dan Lake145 is uh is my short uh URL at LinkedIn.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty sure that's what it is.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: But perfect.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, anyway, yeah, love to chat.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: We'll put the show notes, we'll put the links in the show notes, Dan, so people can get in touch.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Again, can't thank you enough for coming on.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, James.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate the time.