Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / Escaping the Stuck Life: The Hidden Battle Sabotaging Success | Lisa Hamilton

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Escaping the Stuck Life: The Hidden Battle Sabotaging Success | Lisa Hamilton · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

• 0:00
  LISA HAMILTON: If you're on the right track, there is a passion that you just, you can't put it out. You almost can't quit.
• 0:05
  It's like, I want to, but I can't.
• 0:08
  There's something in you that desire is so strong, that's when you know it's of God.
• 0:12
  And God goes, I will give you the ability and you will be successful. Don't quit.
• 0:17
  There's gonna be a sacrifice for your dreams. And I think every entrepreneur knows that going in.
• 0:22
  You could easily, tomorrow, get a paycheck. But there's something in you that you know, I'm gonna sacrifice for this.
• 0:30
  What works today will not work tomorrow. So people get really stuck and that's their downfall.
• 0:51
  RICK: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning podcast.
• 0:58
  My name is Rick Meekens. I'm your host as usual. In our studio, we have Lisa Hamilton. How are you today, ma'am?
• 1:02
  LISA HAMILTON: So good. I've been waiting so long to come on. I love your channel, I love what you do, what you speak about. So glad to be here.
• 1:08
  RICK: So glad you're here. Folks, if you haven't done so already, I would be honored if you would like, subscribe, and hit the bell so you can get updates every time we drop a new episode. And as usual, without further ado, let's get to it.
• 1:30
  So Lisa, first question I always ask my guests — who are you, what do you do, and why do you do what you do?
• 1:38
  LISA HAMILTON: Big question. As an entrepreneur, that's a very big question. Who am I? Lisa Hamilton. I think I was a born entrepreneur. My dad, the legendary Willis Hamilton — he invented the Popcorn ceiling.
• 1:55
  Growing up, I think you just osmosis, pick all that up. So I started all my businesses — fashion designer, designing homes, building homes, becoming a general contractor.
• 2:10
  As an entrepreneur, I think God puts a desire in your heart. And you always second guess it — it's like, I can't do that, why would I do that?
• 2:20
  Philippians 2:13 — I put a desire in your heart and the ability to accomplish it for my pleasure.
• 2:30
  So you follow the desires of your heart. You'll do something, and then you'll do something else, and you'll change. Keeps following, not knowing what I'm doing, and having God enter in.
• 2:45
  Was a fashion designer, built homes for 20 years, general contractor. Then I moved into writing books — Seasons of God, The Winds of Change. Then I did a whole series, Unstick Your Stuck Life.
• 3:04
  Wrote a book about my dad. Now I'm really a book writer, podcaster. I write articles.
• 3:11
  RICK: Wow, you're doing everything. So you talked about God puts desires in your hearts. Do you have personal aspirations as well, or do you feel like your personal aspirations are those things that God just put in you?
• 3:27
  LISA HAMILTON: God made us in our mother's womb. He gave us a temperament. Everyone has a different temperament. And in Jeremiah, it says he first creates a purpose and then creates a vessel — which is us — with a temperament to do that perfectly.
• 3:45
  I do not desire to sing. I do not desire to paint. But the stuff that I do desire — it's me. It's in me. I don't think we make it up. I don't think we randomly find it. I think it's a desire that was planted from the beginning.
• 4:00
  All of a sudden you're going like, I want to do that. Like all of a sudden I want to build a house. I never would have, but I go — I can do it. I want to do it. It just hits you.
• 4:20
  We were built to do it. It's in us, it's in our heart. And then we're always afraid, because — I've never done this before. I don't think I can do it. But it's like, well, maybe I can.
• 4:35
  RICK: Yeah, I don't disagree. I remember when I started Aepiphanni, my consulting business. I was just like, I'm not sure what I'm doing, but I'm going to go out and do the thing. Ran the company for 20 years, worked with a lot of great folks.
• 5:12
  I want to jump in. You briefly mentioned your father. Can you give us a little story — how did he start out and become that international company?
• 5:20
  LISA HAMILTON: Just a kid. He was just a kid applying. At the time, coating the ceiling would crack — it was inefficient. And just as a kid, probably around 20, in his garage, he thought there had to be a better way.
• 5:40
  He mixed styrofoam, chopped it up, and it became an insulator. Put it in a spray gun. Instead of getting on a ladder, he just took a hose and — oh. He would be finished with ceilings overnight.
• 6:00
  His friends go, Hey Will, can you make a batch for me? And he's going, I'm trying to get to work. Then all of a sudden — wait a second. Why don't I manufacture it?
• 6:15
  Growing up, dad was an adventurer — big game hunter, race car driver, the whole deal. And then later I found out he was a pilot. I go, Dad, you were a pilot?
• 6:30
  Well, there was traffic, and I didn't have time, so I got a plane and I would just fly to all these locations. Dad just saw a need and he did it.
• 6:45
  The company did grow. It was like, we can spray the ceiling. It was viral — every Disneyland, everyone had it. But what was very successful about dad — one, he never was the boss. He led from behind.
• 7:00
  I remember as a kid, he'd go into everyone's office. How's it going? Tell me, is something wrong? Can we make it better? How's the sales? He'd go into the shipping department —
• 7:20
  You know, Will, these trucks are going out half empty. We should make them full. Now if he was the boss in his executive office, he would have missed it.
• 7:30
  He honored opinions. He never over spoke. He was always trying to draw something out of you. Do you have any ideas? What do you think? Could we do it better? That atmosphere bonded everyone.
• 7:45
  RICK: You've got a 20 year old guy — that accidental entrepreneur — going from being the tactician making the product to overseeing a staff. Did he ever talk to you about what that transition was like for him?
• 8:12
  LISA HAMILTON: I think a business is a slow growth. I don't think you try to be that big. You don't even know you're gonna be that big. The biggest thing of growing — he had a solid team. He did not do this by himself.
• 8:35
  He was the inventor, and then we had the salesman, we had a product manager. A solid team. And the demand just continued to grow. But dad knew his why — he just loved quality.
• 8:55
  When his sons came in — Hey Dad, if we did this material, we can save some money. Nope, we're not doing it. Come on, Dad. Nope. I want quality. He never chased money. He chased servant. He wanted to serve the people.
• 9:20
  RICK: I love that style of leadership. What I see a lot of times with people moving into leadership roles is learning how to let go and how to delegate. Did he have mentors or folks that gave him that guidance?
• 10:07
  LISA HAMILTON: It was all trial and error. I was a kid. When you stay connected to the different departments, you know what's going on. People sometimes don't like to delegate — if I delegate it, it's hands off. Well, it shouldn't be.
• 10:35
  It was a constant camaraderie — what are we doing, how do we do it better? Everybody was connected. Dad had a beehive of people. Two brains are better than one. They all grew together.
• 10:52
  RICK: What were some lessons that you took from watching him grow?
• 10:54
  LISA HAMILTON: I remember — loyalty. I was probably in high school, visiting dad, sitting in his office, when all the salesmen came in — We've got a big problem.
• 11:10
  That whole apartment complex in Arizona is cracking — the whole thing. And it's not our problem. They want us to do it over. It wasn't the material — they mixed it wrong. It cracked. But it's not our problem.
• 11:30
  And I remember dad — he smoked pipes — sitting there, smoking a pipe. And he said this: But they don't know that. We're going to do the whole thing over.
• 11:48
  He created this loyalty that was deep.
• 12:00
  Years later, an employee took all the access to the formulas. USG goes — my God, we got the gold. We've got the formulas. We're going to build a plant, advertise Hamilton Materials, Popcorn ceiling, half off. We're going to take over the market.
• 12:25
  So we thought — that's it. We're out of business. But you know what our customers said? Who's Hamilton Materials? They said — you have Will's formulas that you took, and I will not buy from you. Not one customer left dad.
• 12:50
  I don't care if they paid twice the price — they didn't leave. That competitor went out of business. Dad made the product because he wanted quality. He served his friends. It was a one-sided thing. But loyalty — anytime you do it, it's a boomerang. It always will come back.
• 13:24
  RICK: Wow. That's amazing. How does that look in some of what you're doing with your businesses?
• 13:40
  LISA HAMILTON: I also have a foundation — the Vine Foundation. Loyalty is always about what can I do for you? How can I sacrifice for you? It's all about you. Loyalty is just a one way street — truly wanting the best for whatever you're doing.
• 14:05
  When you have that, it's just an energy. God honors that, people honor that. I think that's the magic formula — loyalty.
• 14:20
  RICK: Yeah, absolutely. I want to switch gears and talk about your entrepreneurial journey. What was your first business?
• 14:29
  LISA HAMILTON: First business was fashion. Didn't have a job. I'm in my 20s. Every job I had, I'd get fired. I thought, am I retarded? Well, I'm an entrepreneur. I was born that. That's what I am.
• 14:55
  I remember — waitress. Tips are gone. I told all the busboys — here's $20, I'm leaving and you do the salt and pepper. They pulled me in. You're fired. What do you mean I'm fired? My job's done. Everyone's happy.
• 15:20
  Then I would listen to the boss and go — that's not very efficient. So I'd do it my way. Lisa, let's come into the office. I thought they noticed. We've never had an employee like you. I said, I know. I'm thinking — here comes the raise. Lisa, we're gonna have to let you go.
• 15:50
  Last one was hostess. I'm just staring out the window. Lisa, are you on drugs? No, I'm not on drugs. I'm bored to death. So I could not convince them I was not on drugs.
• 16:10
  I think I was on unemployment for two weeks. I go, this is humiliating. I can't do it. Then all of a sudden I'm looking at this earring. And I knew — God goes, you could do that. I go, I can do that.
• 16:35
  I write a book — Just Start Sloppy. The whole premise was — why start at the bottom of the ladder and slowly work your way up? Let's just start at the top and fall till you figure it out.
• 17:00
  I thought, okay, I'm a fashion designer. I have these earrings on. Go to Nordstrom's. I'm a designer. I'm coming out with my fall line. Just want to know if you're interested. Oh, those are fantastic. Okay.
• 17:15
  The line's coming out shortly. I got in. They're putting — autographs, designer, Lisa Hamilton. I'm going like — a week ago I wasn't, but maybe I am now.
• 17:30
  This is just retail. There has to be more money somewhere. I started asking — where's the big money? Oh, that's New York. That's the big boutique show. All right, let's go to New York. So I go to New York. Credit cards. It was a disaster.
• 18:00
  All these booths, they must've spent $10,000. I come in with card tables and sample boards. All the big buyers — are you going out of business? I go — yes, that's right. I think I am.
• 18:20
  Somehow all these women are gathering. Wait, this is really — I like that. Do you sell? Somehow it picks up. I got all the buyers. Jump in the deep end. You will learn how to swim.
• 18:40
  I had a fantastic condo, then I had a warehouse. I thought — I can't have both. We're going to the warehouse. I illegally lived in my warehouse. Little refrigerator, joined 24 Hour Fitness, hiding.
• 19:06
  I'd be designing at 12, 1 o'clock in the morning. I'd look at the clock — how is it 1 o'clock in the morning? Because I knew there was a desire in my heart and God gave me the ability to do it. He and I were creating together.
• 19:20
  When you follow this desire, you literally feel God — the Holy Spirit, this creativity, this passion. And I just couldn't stop doing it. Broke for three years, but then it turned around.
• 19:35
  I was selling internationally. Marie Osmond bought my earrings. I would see them on Channel 5 News — that's my earring. Take risk. You have to sacrifice. You're not gonna have money right off the bat. But if your passion is so strong — you cannot stop.
• 19:58
  RICK: What about those times when you look at what you're doing, don't see the progress you anticipated, and you start to doubt and get afraid? What did you do?
• 20:04
  LISA HAMILTON: Someone asked me — how do you deal with setbacks? And I thought, what an interesting word. It's a wall and it's a recess — a setback. Then I looked at stairs. I'll be darned. Stairs are a series of setbacks.
• 20:27
  So I knew I'd reach plateaus, then something didn't work. Setback. And then you figure it out. Then you go to another level, and then it worked. As you're going from one level to the next, it's a series of setbacks. How do I make this better? The only way out is through.
• 20:52
  The last house I was building on a lake — I'm now the general contractor, everything was falling apart. Subcontracts weren't showing up. Mistakes were made. I thought, I don't think I can do this anymore. Everyone's saying, we'll buy it from you.
• 21:30
  But then I thought — if I quit, I'll never know the end of it. There's something I cannot stand — not knowing what it could have been. So I did stay. It was spectacular. The moments when you want to quit — there's a passion you just can't put out.
• 21:55
  If you're on the right track, you almost can't quit. It's like, I want to, but I can't. There's something in you that desire is so strong — that's when you know it's of God. And God goes — I will give you the ability. You will be successful. Don't quit.
• 22:22
  RICK: That's the trust factor we learn to develop over time. I guess it's like being thick-skinned — this is terrible, this is awful, but I trust God is going to bring me through this.
• 22:50
  So you're not in the jewelry business anymore. How did you know when it was time to exit and start the next thing?
• 23:10
  LISA HAMILTON: That is a great question. I traveled around the world with this business. The bigger I got, I hired sales reps — you do New York and I'll do that. And then I'm going like, wait — how did I end up in the warehouse? I'm not doing any shows. I'm just sitting here.
• 23:35
  God, I don't want to do this anymore. So the next show came — nothing. I didn't get one order. God, I'm not in business. He goes, well, you just said you wanted to move on.
• 24:02
  What am I going to do now? And God goes — well, what you've always been doing. I go, what have I been doing? I was profiling people, personality tests, building teams. He goes, do that. Oh, I'm an expert now.
• 24:20
  Then I instantly moved into corporate profiling. The fire goes out, I went to that. Easy transition. Then I started looking at my own home. The same sense of fashion just went into homes.
• 24:50
  And there is always one truth in any business — even in all your podcasting, everything you do — what works today will not work tomorrow. So people get really stuck and that's their downfall.
• 25:00
  In the height of my business in New York, everyone's doing really well. Then the imports start coming in. I'm going like, guys, we can't compete. We're paying $20 an hour. They're paying $10 a day.
• 25:15
  We are top designers and we are not gonna change. I said, well, I am. Pay attention to what the world wants, your customers want. Pay attention because it's always changing.
• 25:40
  There was a very elaborate earring — three layers, three colors, snakeskin, crystals. We were selling it for $16 wholesale. I go, that's not gonna work next year. One color, one layer, one stone. Cut everything out.
• 26:05
  Next year we show it. This little earring — $2. From $16 to $2. JCPenney — $20,000 order. From a dozen, it went to a gross. I paid attention.
• 26:30
  And even in dad's business — popcorn ceiling isn't in anymore. Change it up, what's next? You have to really pay attention. If you're attuned to the need and the desire in the market, you're always going to be on top of it.
• 26:58
  RICK: What was something that happened completely unexpected — you're doing your thing and then God's just like, hey, stop, we're gonna go in this other direction?
• 27:30
  LISA HAMILTON: Well, the day I said I don't want to do it anymore and there were no sales — that was a big stop. I'm bankrupt right now? I have no job today?
• 27:40
  I believe in God. I believe in the rules — you obey God, you're blessed. You don't, you're not. Pretty simple. At the end of shows, I'd sell my samples. I would have this trunk of cash.
• 28:10
  All of a sudden I'm praying. God, I've been in this warehouse for three years. These are really good designs, but either this needs to really take off or tell me it's not gonna work. Can you bless this business? Well, no, I can't.
• 28:35
  What do you mean you can't? You're not obeying me. You're in disobedience. What am I doing? He goes — the cash. You are not claiming that, and that's wrong. I go, you're right.
• 29:00
  So I literally — it was a trunk. Four feet by three, a wheelie trunk. I go to the bank. I need to deposit this. The lady's going like, are you for real? It's just cash.
• 29:20
  We deposited it. That next show — God goes, okay, now I can bless you. God can't bless a business even when you think it's just an infraction. He goes — I won't, and I can't.
• 29:50
  Look at your business. God, is there anything you're displeased with? Am I doing anything wrong? That was my turning point and that thing skyrocketed. Pay attention to your disobedience infractions. If you're gonna ask God to bless your business, you better be clean.
• 30:41
  RICK: One of the things I've seen people talk about lately is a waiting season. They've started their company, they're following the direction God gave them, and they're just not seeing fruit. Real financial challenges. What do you say to folks like that?
• 31:27
  LISA HAMILTON: There's gonna be a sacrifice for your dreams. Every entrepreneur knows that going in. You could quit and just get a paycheck tomorrow. But there's something in you that you know — I'm gonna sacrifice for this. A mom who gets pregnant — it's gonna be a sacrifice.
• 32:00
  Going into your dreams, you already know it's going to be a sacrifice. How much are you willing to sacrifice? But when the dream is that deep and that passionate — I don't think you can stop.
• 32:20
  You always go through — I don't want to do it, I can't do it, I'm quitting. And then it's like — do you really want to quit? Yeah, I want to quit. Are you sure? No.
• 32:45
  No, I don't really want to quit. I think it has to be God inside you that doesn't want you to quit. Why don't people quit? I don't know. How many times did you want to quit? But the passion overrides the sacrifice.
• 33:11
  RICK: I know there have been times when God was just like — I didn't tell you you could quit. I was ready to throw it in, and God was just like — we're not done here yet. Keep going.
• 33:25
  LISA HAMILTON: On the contrary — when I said, God, I'm done. I reached the top, I'm an international success. I did it. But then there's a time — there's a peace, there's a resolve, there's a finish. Wow, that was a great ride, God. But now I want to do something else.
• 34:05
  It's not that you're leaving because it's a challenge. It's peaceful. You and the horse are just gliding along. I can get off the horse now. I always leave in success.
• 34:25
  When I felt satisfied, that was the time to leave. You can tell when it's time to go. You can tell when you're trying to quit. And it feels different.
• 35:00
  RICK: I've heard people talk about an anointing going into a certain area, and then that anointing or that oil is taken away and you're redirected to another.
• 35:20
  LISA HAMILTON: Scripture says the gifts are without repentance. Whatever God created you to be, you're that. You can't undo it. But the oil — there's absolutely a moment when you've accomplished it.
• 35:45
  After that one trade show with zero orders — the next thing I did, I was instantly excited. And it was like — okay. I often think, hey God, why did I do fashion earrings? What was the point of that?
• 36:20
  I think God loves to live life with us. There were times when it took faith, it took risk, it had reward. I didn't know this was in me. I was a straight A student. I didn't know I could really create. I hated art.
• 36:48
  When I started doing the fashion, there was so much in me that opened up. I'm creative. I didn't know that. Maybe he's opening up an area in your personal life that was dead or was never opened.
• 37:10
  Whatever was supposed to happen, happened. Dad's business — the anointing is still there. Financially very successful, six kids, six foundations. It became an ongoing financial kingdom — now we give to the kingdom. That was supposed to stay. But little earring business — that was just fun.
• 37:38
  RICK: I think that's how God develops us. My restaurant business poured into my consulting business, and that poured into what I'm doing now. What's exciting for you right now? What are you working on?
• 37:59
  LISA HAMILTON: Books, for sure. I can sit in bed with coffee and sit at my laptop for 12 hours and go — I wish this day wasn't over. One more paragraph. I could sit there and write forever. God just talks to me.
• 38:30
  And just recently I started a podcast — Lisa Hamilton Official. I call it Bible Pop. These little once-a-week audio things. 7,000 people. So I keep doing them.
• 38:55
  I've gone through a lot of life. I know how to hear God now. I've had experiences — ups, downs, hearing God. Now what's fulfilling is tapping into all that I've learned — the wisdom of God and the intelligence of God.
• 39:20
  Not starting a business — zero, done with that. No entrepreneurial anymore. Now it's just books and podcasts and conferences. Sharing. That's the next step for me.
• 39:45
  And people go like, Hey Lisa, you want to start a business? It's gonna make a lot of money. Don't care. Zero. I am done. Now I just want to know — the oil is dried up. It is gone.
• 40:07
  RICK: People ask me about starting another restaurant. Same thing. No, never ever. I will cook for free. I will cook for fun.
• 40:30
  LISA HAMILTON: Was it kind of fun? But would you do it again? Would you do it for a million dollars? Two million?
• 40:55
  RICK: No way. No, no, no, ma'am. I'm retired. I did my dream catering job. That's it.
• 41:05
  LISA HAMILTON: Someone said, hey, you should do this business. I don't want to do it anymore. Now I have a foundation. I help people. I give money away. I'm not interested. I just sit in bed.
• 41:45
  RICK: Tell us about your foundation.
• 42:00
  LISA HAMILTON: Voices in Need Everywhere. I'm church status, so I get to give to individuals and causes. I've done deaf schools in Africa — Uganda. If you're deaf there, they think it's a curse. They'll abandon the kids in school, so it became an orphanage.
• 42:30
  Anytime there's a cause, I pray — God, this is your money. It's a separate bank account. What do you want to do? Things come up — individuals, circumstances. The ability to change someone's life overnight. Now that's pretty fun.
• 43:00
  So I do write these books. I want quality paper. I want color interior. Black and white, you'd make $5 a book. Better paper — $2.50. Color — Lisa, you're gonna make about 35 cents a book. I'll take it.
• 43:35
  I make 35 cents a book, which is ridiculous. At this point, I want to get a message across. I give them away, because I don't make money anyway.
• 43:50
  RICK: Last question. The name of the show is the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast. In life, we all define winning however we want to. The difficulty we face is maintaining that relentless pursuit. What would you recommend to help someone do that?
• 44:47
  LISA HAMILTON: My win looks a lot different now. It used to be money. When you're 20 or 30, your win is money. I think making money is good. But as your decades change, my win now is friends.
• 45:10
  Every decade your win is different. As a new parent, bonding with your kids is the win. Now it's enjoying my life with friends. Money's not my win anymore.
• 45:35
  I was so frugal. I'd make money, I'd save it. Finally, my sister goes, Lisa, what are you doing? I'm saving money. She goes, but you're not 20. I go, guy, you're right.
• 46:00
  You have to transition into the next season. Maybe work was important — now kids are important. Or now being altruistic is important.
• 46:15
  Pay attention, because your wins change. I'm gonna let that thing go right now because my win looks very different. My win now is really friends. Now it's honing in more to God.
• 46:35
  Your life will change according to the season you're in. What do you think, Rick?
• 46:50
  RICK: So in order to maintain that relentless pursuit, we adapt our wins, we change our target in order to stay focused and moving forward. Does that say it right?
• 47:10
  LISA HAMILTON: Absolutely. Your life changes, you change, who you are changed. You have a lot more wisdom than you did at 20. Everything changes.
• 47:30
  And I've seen people keep to the same target — maybe a man with a family, making money, making money. But now you have a family. Having fun with your family is the new target. Maybe just assess your life and go — wait, what am I doing right now?
• 48:00
  Learning how to shift is a win.
• 48:10
  RICK: Yes, yes — that is so wise. You have a giveaway for our audience. Can you tell us about that?
• 48:30
  LISA HAMILTON: One giveaway — if you go to Books in a Bite, it's an online bookstore. I'm gonna put Unstick Your Stuck Life in there. The code for every book is espresso — E-S-P-R-E-S-S-O. The book we were talking about today — Just Start Sloppy. All my books are fun.
• 49:00
  Also on my link tree — Lisa Hamilton Official on Instagram — there is a personality profile I developed during my corporate profiling days. About 20 questions. It really hones into your most dominant traits. Go take the personality test. Go read some books. Go listen to Bible Pop.
• 49:35
  RICK: Is there anything you want to leave our audience with? This has been an amazing conversation. I love the way we talk about business, faith, life. What is the most important thing you want our audience to take away?
• 50:00
  LISA HAMILTON: For sure you will go through many different challenges — seasons, highs and lows. One thing I always do — you have to talk to God. God, what are we doing? Can you help me? Should I stay? Should I go? Convict me. Being intentionally asking God.
• 50:30
  Here's my question, God — what is my life? How do I serve you? The biggest question is — we're here to serve God. And ironically, that's when we're completely on purpose. God, how do I serve you today? He'll bring people, fun, adventures, purpose. He'll bring everything into your life.
• 51:00
  Stop living for yourself and start saying — God, you made me. Here I am. What do we do together? With that motive, your life really unfolds. Talk to God about your life. Ask him. Guide me, show me, here I am. That's the big win. That's the big tip of the day.
• 51:20
  RICK: I agree with that 100%. Lisa, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. I'm so grateful we finally had an opportunity to chat.
• 51:35
  LISA HAMILTON: Yeah, that was a long time coming. Hey, thanks Rick, loved it. Call me back. I always love talking to you.
• 51:45
  RICK: Likewise. And folks, thank you so much for watching and listening to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast. We'll catch you next time.
• 52:00
  LISA HAMILTON: Okay, bye.