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People First Isn't Just a Value. For This CEO, It's the Whole Strategy · Kind of a Big Deal

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hey everyone, welcome to Kind of a Big Deal.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Kristen Belden.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Today I'm sitting down with someone I've had the real honor of knowing for years.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Patty, the CEO of Youth Leadership Institute, a California-based nonprofit that has spent decades building youth power by making sure young people's voices are at the table when decisions get made about their lives and their communities.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: I served on YLI's board for years, and I can tell you firsthand, Patty is one of the most extraordinary leaders I have ever had the privilege of being in proximity to.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Full authenticity, relentless integrity.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: In our chat, Patty said something I just loved.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: They said, I think I live in love most days, and that keeps my heart safe from the world that it's really hard to live through.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I have thought about that sentence more times than I can count, and I think you will too.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: We also talk about what it's like to grow up inside one organization for 15 years, what it took to step into the CEO seat as a queer leader of color when there weren't a lot of people who looked like them in that chair, and about the exciting brand new business they're launching soon.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: I can't wait for you to meet them.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: Here's Patty.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, Patty.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Kristen, how are you?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so good and I'm so happy to be here with you today.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for doing this.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Patty is one of the most incredible leaders that I've ever had the pleasure of working alongside.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: I've had the total honor of serving on the board of the nonprofit that they've been leading for how long now have you been the CEO?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think the last six years.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Six years.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I was um on the board for a good chunk of that time.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's really just it's hard to describe how special Patty is.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: There is just like a level of full authenticity at all times.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: They are fully who they are, um, leading with integrity and and not just integrity, but with compassion, and always with people first, and came into the interim sea of position at a time when the organization really needed a different level of leadership.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: And they took the role on with so much heart and really took the organization to another level.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really cool to get to witness that evolution of both the organization and of Patty's own leadership and their own role in the work that we got to do together.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I just have so much mad respect and so much admiration.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: So cannot wait to dive in.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like maybe a little nervous because I want to make sure we get all the right questions in, and I know we're not gonna have enough time, but I am just let's start with YLI, which for anyone who is not familiar with the org, stands for Youth Leadership Institute.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: You've spent a really good chunk of your formative career years here.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it'd be helpful for folks to have a little bit of a foundation about the organization and you know, kind of what you all do and the work that you care about.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you again for having me and thank you so much for the sweet intro.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: While I as a special place youth leadership institute, you know, the work we do is really about ensuring that young people across California and really across the country um have the tools, the skills, uh abilities to really frame the challenges in their communities and also provide the solution for change.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they're doing that by meeting with their local decision makers at all levels, school, city-county level, um, city, county, state, um, to be able to advocate for the changes that they want to see.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we're building youth power every single day by ensuring that young people's voices are heard loud and clear.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's such a perfect, it is such an incredibly layered organization.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so there, it's always tricky to be able to share so succinctly what the power is of an organization like YLI, and you always do such a great job with that.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: I remember as a board member, there were the first few years we were like, okay, wait, but are we saying this thing right?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, am I am I saying it and am I saying enough?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because the work is so deeply impactful.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's just really incredible how long they've been around and how the work they continue to do expands.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think it would be cool to hear then, because you've been at the organization for is it 15-ish?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for six years, definitely.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, what were you how did you start out?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: What were you doing before you came to YLI?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe like die like rewind all the way back to early career days and what you were doing.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Early career days, you know, I uh, you know, I talk about um this moment in my life when I was in college and I wasn't sure what I'd be doing, but I had really been challenged academically in a lot of different ways.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was facing academic dismissal at the time, appealed that decision and got back into school to finish uh college.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And one of my last sort of credits, um, I had a few credits to sort of make up, and I ended up doing um an internship at a local nonprofit and uh called the National Athena Health Network.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, I think I wasn't sure what I was doing with my life.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was serving tables, I was doing the things that helped pay the bills, um, put food on the table.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I met uh Patricia and Liz at um the National Latina Health Network, and they just they were so, I mean, they were some of the they were the example of what an adult ally and a mentor should be and could be in this world.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: I hope they get to watch this and I'll you know, um, because what they did for me, I think they've done for so many others, and and I think I work to do every day, which is to really see folks for who they are.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: They celebrated my queerness, they celebrated who I was, they empowered me to do all kinds of really rad things.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And we were doing HIV AIDS, you know, prevention work on college on college campuses.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really um important work that they entrusted me with and uh they supported me to do.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: They sent me to conferences and all different types of places to really represent the work, and they just I think created a pathway of leadership.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that I think got me on my way.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: They actually put in a good word when I interviewed for my first job um at the New Jersey Coalition Against Sexual Assault, really supporting survivors of sexual violence and doing really primary prevention efforts, right?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: When I was interviewing for that job, I told Patricia, like, hey, I'm I'm interviewing for this job, would you mind putting a good word for me?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Turns out she runs into like the person, right?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the executive director at the time, and you need to hire this person, you know, I love it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Which, you know, I was like, show, so I was there, and then I got an ad like another mentor, like when I was there, and her name was um Andrea uh Spencer Lindsay.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I hope she hopes she sees this too.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: She allowed me to grow at the organization, but she let me knock on her door almost every week to understand why she made certain decisions.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Not from a like cool, not from like a I don't agree with your decision.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was like help me understand how you got to this decision.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd knock on the door and I'd say, Hey, you made a decision.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: This funding or what we're gonna pursue.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Was that because of this or was that because of that?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was going on?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And she just let me play in that this this like organizational leadership realm that you never get, you know, this sort of like should be busy, and I'd like knock the door and I'd be like, I really, really think I know why you made this decision.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: At one point, I'd say, Okay, let me run it back to you, and can I tell you what I think happened?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And she'd be like, Okay, tell me.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and she'd like listen and she'd be like, Yeah, they got that kind of right, but let me tell you what else I was thinking.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got like a little bit um the curiosity was really awesome.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: She let me explore that curiosity.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she told me I should, you know, when I was considering grad school, that I'd end up at a really cool school, um, and that I should go somewhere that was where like revolutionary people went.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, let's do it.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she was like, You should look into the School for International Training, which is SIT.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, I'll look into it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I did, and well, you know, um, I applied and I got in and I did a uh master's program teaching English to speakers of other languages, really in part to pay homage to my dad, who um was an English language learner, and to my mom who was an English language learner, both of whom worked at different points in their lives.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like and the the power to understand and know English was was really key.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, so I go to this grad school and it turns out um half of the class is international students, which is very humbling.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Folks that had been teaching English in their home countries for like years, decades were coming to the US to get this degree that really mattered so much back at back in their home countries.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the the it's so humbling to be with folks that um from other countries that are all in a learning space.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I that was the best educational experience I've had in my life.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Would highly recommend it um because it really gets you out of your own um like Western culture and the way we do things in the US and the way folks commune, the way folks connect, the way folks build community, um the stories that you're exposed to and get to learn about, like the histories anyway, all of that was really beautiful.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I fell in love during this time uh to my partner, who I then married and moved to California because she's from California and uh decided to start a life here.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I had come back and was like, oh, I I can't really get a full-time job teaching English right now.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I really ended up wanting to teach like the 18 plus folks um and and older folks and couldn't really put together a full-time opportunity doing that.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what I ended up doing was I went back to like my nonprofit roots and and worked at the Asian Communities for Reproductive Justice.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: They were doing like a like a you know, very short-term uh opportunity to work with young people on the juvenile justice of young mamas uh and so we did this sort of like storytelling campaign, which is really beautiful.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I found a friend who worked at YLI and they said, Hey, they're hiring, you should have totally applied.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what does YLI do?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which young people, you know, to advocate for the changes that they want to see in their communities.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, cool, totally not maps.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I started off as a part-time program coordinator working directly with young people on a school climate project.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Young people I was working with was queer young people who were really examining right their school climate and their school environment to basically understand what is how do I feel safe at my school, what does that mean?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, we're asking young people what they think.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we do, of course.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we do, and so I got to learn from young people about what was safe to them and and what wasn't, and um, and I think the change that happens when you allow the space and you create the conditions for young people to really examine the issue that they're experiencing along with their peers and other right um community members, and can put the story together about how it impacts not only an individual but a community um in the neighborhood and so on.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: When you can put that together and then they can develop recommendations for what they want to see change, and then they get that savvy of like, how do I sit down with somebody who makes decisions about my everyday life and put that in front of them in a way that they can hear is really beautiful.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, I'm in love, I'm in love, I'm in love.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: I do I do love really cool things and really cool work, and I was like, this is amazing, and you know, the rest is history at YLI.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: You that's what we do.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: We continuously are growing our ability to support young people and our ability to create the changes, uh, the conditions for change for them to be successful, but also like at the end of the day, making real material change.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not just talking about school climate, we're gonna do something about that school climate.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And in that step that was gender neutral bathrooms as the real key recommendation that we were able to shape that community for generations to come.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's the beauty of our work that I don't think folks always see is like changing an individual's hearts and minds is really important, but allowing them to be the vehicle for community change and then generational change.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh well, I think what that does for their entire foundational awareness of the power of their voice, right?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what that means for collective change going forward.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's what's so was always so compelling to me to think about starting those conversations when so many young people don't feel like they have a voice in these systems because they're not being asked for the most part.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So to have an organization that's coming in and saying, actually, no, that's not true.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And here's how and here's why.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm so interested in this, you know, I kind of I see a teeny bit of a through line here in what you were sharing just now about your interest in getting to the heart of the thing and the ability to tell the story of something so powerfully and how that then affects change, all the way back to, you know, one of your mentors and going into them and saying, like, I think I want to understand like how you got to this decision and why, and like help me, you know, walk me through that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's an interesting, it's not surprising to me to hear that from you, but like it's really uh compelling to hear you talk about from even just a young, you know, kind of a student and trying to learn about the path you wanted to take that those sparks were already there.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I wonder, you know, I've heard you say a couple of things around being seen, um, you know, access to thinking, the ability to stay curious, people advocating for you.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else that you think makes for a really strong adult ally as we're all thinking about, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: As we kind of shift into this next season of our lives, um, many of us and many of those that are listening, right, we now have the wisdom and experience that allows us to now potentially be in community with young people.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: How do you see, like, what is one of the most powerful things that someone can do when they're thinking about being an ally in that way?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think the commitment to do the internal were necessary is probably one of the biggest things any one of us could do in any of our work.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think in particular, because some of the challenges that young people are going through today around housing, um, around economic instability, like I felt that, right?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I went through that at a different point in my life.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it's triggering as an adult to then be uh to bear witness to the pain and the suffering that's happening.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the internal work that I had to do, and I was really blessed to have and still have a really incredible executive coach who has changed my life and has been able to help me see what are my patterns of thinking that often will get in my way.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, what are the ways that I can um hold space for young people and for my team, but also hold space for myself.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's that healing work that I think like there isn't one way to heal.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think we're all on a journey, and I think if you can commit to that over and over again, the byproduct is you being a really incredible listener, a really incredible partner, um, somebody who can, you know, uh add value to somebody's life.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think that internal work that one has to do is for a lifetime, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's like something you have to um continuously work on.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's the most annoying part.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's tough.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I just always let up with people, you know, it's like this when you start maybe intentionally or unintentionally going into a journey of that kind of work and and trying to evolve yourself or ask the hard questions, you know, I think there can be this notion that, like, oh, I'm gonna do it, and then I'm gonna arrive at some place, and then I'm gonna be either healed or I'm going to be, you know, ready to just be this version of myself.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, oh no, because then once you start to unpack that, you start to unpack kinds of stuff that like still has to be worked through.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, at the same time, you're still evolving and you're still bearing witness to new experiences and you're still entering a new season of life.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just, yeah, it's never ending.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's not to deter anybody from doing work that's deeply important.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I think, you know, there I certainly did not know what a journey that would be.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an exciting journey too, because to your point, you also get to then show up in the world differently, and you get to show up, I think, with a different level of groundedness when you continue in that work.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I love that point of it's not an external value that you're providing necessarily to someone in order to be a good steward and in order to be a good mentor that I've heard anybody share in that way, and I I love that.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: You so we just got to hear from you that you've spent, you know, um your entire career in a thread of centering people usually left out of power structures and these conversations.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Can you name a moment that that thread became conscious for you rather than just instincts, right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because you you're talking about this from a perspective of this has kind of been your life, but I wonder if that's something that you always were aware of, or was there a moment that kind of calcified that for you?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: Such a good question.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the things that um I think was is sort of part of I think my my DNA a little bit, I think is like I every person that I've met in my life, like I find something that I love about them, and then I just love them.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that that sounds probably like really seriously, no, it sounds really profound actually, because no, it's actually not that easy every time it's not that easy, right?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's complicated and we're flawed, and we have ways that we show up that are not that are sometimes harmful to other people, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is a reality as um in who we are, but I think for me, I think I've always found something that I love about every person I've met, and really trying to ground myself in that like that love um helps me show up.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that was like a certain moment or time, but it's definitely developed over the years, and so any person I meet, I'm like, oh, I love their laugh, or oh, I love that the way they listen, or oh my god, I love the way they ask follow-up questions.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, I I sort of I think I live in love most days, to be honest with you, and and that keeps my heart safe from the world that is around us, that's really been hard to to live through, not only for me, but for so many.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, I think steeping in love, like a little, like a little like uh um daily commitment that I make without without knowing that I'm always doing it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just trying to make sure folks feel that too.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't want to just I want you to know why I love you.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean that's such a I've been talking about this a lot recently.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure why this continues to come up, but just this idea that it feels maybe easier nowadays.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's a bit of a um I don't know what the word is I'm looking for, but not a theme or pattern, but maybe a little bit of a of an easier conversation around cutting people out of your life or like, you know, you have a disagreement and therefore I can no longer Share space with you.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I have a family member with different political views, and therefore, like I, you know, I disagree with them to the point where I can't even imagine holding a relationship with them any longer.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And this is, of course, not to say at all if you know you're in an actually, you know, abusive or toxic relationship that you're meant to stick it out and find the love.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: I but just generally speaking, it seems that societally we've gotten it's become more of you know, I'll talk to my mom and she'll share about other women in her circles who all of a sudden, you know, the the child has decided to totally cut them off because of the one disagreement.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure it is much more complicated than that.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm I'm so interested in folks that are choosing a different path, and that is what you're doing.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: You're saying it's a conscious choice every single day.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: And anyone that could be choosing that, arguably, could be somebody who is facing and seeing resistance every day in the communities that you all are serving.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm curious if you have a perspective on that.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not totally sure what my question is here, so I'm rambling.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: But give me a second, because I think I'm getting to something, which is how do you then reconcile, right?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like you are working in spaces that are inherently challenging, right?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you are likely coming into conversation with people that you just diametrically disagree with because they are potentially causing harm to communities that you care deeply about.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: How do you still show up that way when it's so easy to do the opposite?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Not only to not show up with love, but to show up with anger or, you know, it's something else that does not allow for that conversation to even happen.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I think that sometimes I do show up angry.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I do show up frustrated, or sometimes I do show up impatient.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, particularly in these situations where I can see we can see the solution.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: It is right in front of us.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Young people have articulated, they've given you five options of what's possible.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's not even like, right?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're coming at you with one soul um idea.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: They really have a um a way to um give you an option to say yes.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what we've done, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So a part of me feels like um I have to work how I feel out before I go to anything or do it, sure.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: To be real with you, like if I'm right, if I'm on the ride there, if I'm if I need to build that, or if I need to call my coach and say, Oh my god, I'm about to like feel like you know, especially as a queer, like you know, non-binary person in the world, like I'm navigating that too, right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not just navigating the the work that I do, I'm working I'm navigating how people are seeing me and what value they're assigning to me or not, yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: So so I think I I so I have to like center on love to be real with you, and ultimately I'm here to win alongside people, and and I'm not competitive, so we're clear.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously, for real, zero competitiveness.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: I just want everybody to win, is really honestly the way I roll in life.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: But but but they do want to win real improvements, and I want to do that with young people, and I want them to know that this is sometimes some of these policy conversations are a chess game, and ultimately, if we can present options and policy solutions that really help that are sustainable and that help create real improvements for for folks' lives, like we gotta go hard and we gotta go for that W.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean we're not gonna get L's along the way, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean we're not gonna get the really terrible commentary from a board of supervisor or some racist comment uh from another decision maker, and we have to call that out, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: We have to be able to not allow that to stand.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: We have to put pressure on people, other people to say, how do you allow this?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: We still gotta fight.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess a part of me is like, you know, my best advice if I was giving somebody advice on this, is like figure out how you feel before you get where you need to get, you work that out.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and go to win.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: I was just gonna say, at the end of the day, when you're going with that, when the end goal is winning on behalf of justice or you know, whatever, like then allow you you're then coming in with a different mindset, and it's not then looked at as I have to take this in order to right, like move the needle.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's I know I'm going to put a voice in a way that's a really good way of framing it because I think this continues to be nuanced for people, I think, at this level of conversation and how to navigate it not only personally, but on behalf of the organization or behalf of you know whatever cause that they care about, or even just honestly within your own personal communities, it can be really hard.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I really like uh I like thinking about it like that.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: So you held you know several senior roles at YLI, you've been there for 15 plus years.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: What's it like to grow up inside kind of in one organization like that?
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's complicated because you can see all the complicated and it's beautiful, like both, right?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: I it's a both end.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I would say it's complicated because you can see different points where um you know uh the organization has done really great work, but um sometimes you matching your internal leadership to your external leadership is still important, and I think there's some there's some dope organizations out there for real, for real.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And their external leadership is like uh like no other, but sometimes their internal leadership is like messy and like uh not as uh kind, generous, graceful as one would think.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I've gotten to see us navigate that as an organization and be better with each other and how we grow and how we develop sustainable like structures and policies and take care of people.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been able to influence that.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's something about uh all of us having an ability to influence where we're at right now, and I think that is about relationship building, right?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's about understanding what my challenges are, what your challenges might be, and how we um how we navigate those, but also how we change.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, and so I think for me, uh it's been fun to see myself grow um from a like pretty skeptical, I would say, maybe individual when I started.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, really?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is this all we're doing?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're really listening to young people, but then like seeing it actually like because you know, our life, our our lived experience is not always that people are listening to young people, right?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're trained to be like, no, we're adults have more authority, independence, wisdom, baby-doos, whatever, right?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and that's not the case.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Young people are are brilliant and and have so many lived experiences to shape what they want to see in the world.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, so I was uh skeptical, and then I realized we were actually true to what to our word as an organization, and that was like, okay, cool, I'm with it.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you can have different leaders at any point in an org.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: But what's really beautiful about our org is the through line and the commitment to young people has always been there, yeah, regardless of who is here.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm really happy with with who is here right now at the organization and have an incredible team of folks, but that's I think that's the like um uh evidence or the proof point for funders and for philanthropic leaders, for donors to be able to say that regardless of who's uh been here at different points in in the leadership cycle of the organization, we've still committed to double down and make sure that other people's voices are front and center and influencing the change that they that they um want to see, but that they deserve to see.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything that you had to like either unlearn or maybe even relearn through any of your transitions within the organization?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think I'm especially thinking of jumping from being, you know, on the executive team to then actually becoming interim CEO.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what did that transition feel like?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was hard, right?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because you all of a sudden, once you become an interim CEO or even a permanent CEO, there is a different level of responsibility that you have um opted into.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the the thing that helped my experience the most, I would say, is somebody who was like, you know, I'm a queer, you know, leader of color in a CEO C, and there isn't a ton of stories that are relatable to me that are out there.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I had an incredible board chair at the time, Brandon also who uh listens to this, who you know, really sort of um he really made me feel like an executive.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Where somebody who hasn't had that experience often will get, well, well, you don't have enough experience, you'll get there.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he just gave me that direct respect from date number one.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And there's something about that, like when you treat somebody else with that level of respect and understanding, and not the like you'll you'll get there someday energy.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that that transformed how I saw myself.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, yeah, what a gift.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: That yeah, he's a huge gift.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I told this story before, but it's a funny one, which is like it was like my first week um as an interrom.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: He had called me and I was in the middle of a lot of different things.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just say that, right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was trying to figure this out and figure that out, and it was like, what?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I missed his call, but I hadn't called him back.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I finally called him back maybe like two or three days later, which this is this is your board chair.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, gotta get on.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I was so busy.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I called him and I was like, I that's the first thing I said was like, I'm so sorry, I haven't called you back.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I was kind of freaking out, if I'm honest with you.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Patty.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, he's like, You're an executive.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I trust that you're doing whatever you need to be doing whenever you're doing it, and that you'll call me whenever you have the time to call me.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love first of all.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, can we just do a giant shout out?
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because everyone loves Brandon.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Brandon is like it's legit, also just one of those people, but that is what a gorgeous response.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because to the point, it's not oh, I'm gonna give you a pass or oh, don't even worry about it.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's chill, it's so much more intentional than that.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I love that, and I love I don't sorry, if you saw more of the story, I'm not meaning to cut you off, but I think you touched on something when you talked about the level of responsibility and the recognition of that.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think that actually, when I think about in knowing you, that's actually how I experience you to a T.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's that you take everything with a level of responsibility, everything, every meeting, every board meeting, every conversation, everything is done with a level of almost like expectation of greatness from yourself.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Not and and yes, that then, of course, you know, is from other people, but it is like you don't fuck around.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like what the like is like you are here and you are here to do the damn thing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I that is such a like I could never quite figure out the right language when talking about it, but I think like you just nailed it, and it's that doesn't sound super sexy, but I think it is actually really sexy, which is when you show up with that level of integrity because you know you have the importance of the responsibility of an organization that you care so deeply about.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I imagine, but now I'm curious if this is true.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Is this kind of the way you just interact with your world more generally?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like when it comes to thinking about what you choose to engage with or you know, hobbies, activities, like is that kind of the way you are, or is that how you are as like a leader in the professional world?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, quick pause before we get back into it.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you're listening to conversations like this one and something keeps nudging you, like I know I'm at some kind of turning point, I just can't quite see it clearly yet.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's actually exactly what I do.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: I work with women leaders who are in the middle of something: a career shift, a business that's ready to evolve, a moment where what got you here just isn't cutting it anymore.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes what you need most isn't a whole program or a big engagement.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: You just need a few hours with someone who can help you see what you're too close to see yourself.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's the clarity session.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's a focused, one-on-one conversation where we dig into where you are, where you want to go, and what's actually in the way.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: You walk away with real direction, not a list of homework, but genuine clarity on your next move.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: If that sounds like what you need right now, I'd love to talk.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: You can find all the details at Beldenstrategies.com slash clarity.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's such a good question.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think that I think that's just the way I am.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, how would my partner answer this?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is what was my first thought?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Get her on, get her on, get her on.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I want to ask.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think not so okay, so I'll just talk professionally, right?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I do think that there is a like a little bit of uh um what is it?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think as a queer, it's there's like a responsibility to the org, but there's just like a responsibility to other queer non-binary leaders that will step into this role at some point.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's like the bigger there's the bigger uh responsibility that you have to carry.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, I wouldn't have considered myself very responsible in my younger years.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: So like I'm like going hard now on responsibility where I was not earlier.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I just won't put that out there for anybody else who's listening.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I I think that it is I think I think even I think loving hard is what I do at work and and what I do in my day-to-day.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very easy to um, it's almost seamless, I think, to be with others and to give your full self to something.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, for me, that's why I'm so tired by the end of the day.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I can probably even go sleep, but I've like I've given it all.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, think about this as like, you know, the Valkyries right now are winning, right?
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: Go Valkyries, and uh coach uh the coach always says, like, you know, empty out the gas tank.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm like on E on most days by the end of the day.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, I think you're like buttering off the freeway trying to find the next gas tank.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's responsibility, right?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's like maybe that's like my own wanting to be better, but it's also I think just loving really hard does that.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh any like leadership belief that you kind of held on strongly to in like your early CEO years, right?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's six years, it's so we we're not having to rewind time too far that you may have either revised or totally abandoned as you've evolved into the role.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I took everything really personally at the beginning of my um, and I still do.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm a Pisces, got a lot of love, you know, when I feel things like often, you know, so so I would say that as my cardiaff, but like um I took things really personally for a long time, and then through really extensive coaching with my coach Lara, who's I hope listens to this also.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she was really incredible at helping me um understand what I was doing and how much personalization I was taking on, and how depleting that was to me energetically, right?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I'm personalizing every single interaction, like I got nothing for my family at the end of the day.
• 39:37
  unknown: Right.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: My my heart's in my heart's feeling it and uh thinking about it and you know rethinking it.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: So a part of what she did for me was really helped me understand that that personalization was depleting me and that um what could I do instead?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um that was about like really just being okay with whatever decision I made and being okay with um failing, right?
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like okay, so you fail at this decision, well then what?
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we pick ourselves back up, we're accountable for what what what didn't work, and and we learn and we move on.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: So let's not spend as much time and your precious energy.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: I realize like your precious energy is really that, right?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we are personalizing every situation, again, easier said than done, right?
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Totally for years I was like sad all the time about something somebody said, and I was like, Well, it's not me, like rubinating and like at 3 a.m.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: every night, right?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like on the yes, I say something, and then I just work through that, and now I say something, and I'm like, if you don't agree with that, you that is your you know, your full right to not agree, but also respect that you don't agree, and we gotta move on, yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is like something I had to let go of, and it's I still have remnants of it sometimes where I'm like, Oh, my heart.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's I mean, it's a human condition, right?
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's so impossible, I think, unless you're a sociopath to like get rid of that.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: Totally, totally, yeah, yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's part of that ever-evolving journey that we're all on, right?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can all recognize that it doesn't do us any favors, but it's not easy to do that.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's a constant habit.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is there anything that you remember from what she shared with you about like how to actually literally in practice go about that?
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Or was it just something you had to kind of stay conscious of?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she's great.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I want to, I'm not wanting to put all her jewels out there and I'll but you know, definitely Lar Brewer, you should look her up.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: She's incredible.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say it sounds like I might interview her.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for real.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: She's yeah, she reinterview.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: He would just ask, she would just reflect back like, how is you personalizing this helping you right now?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: How is it advancing the work?
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how is it and so at that point you'd be like, it's not advancing the work at all.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not working at all, it's making me feel terrible or whatever.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, how can we um depersonalize and actually focus and be okay?
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Part of that was my own insecurities as a leader, which we all have.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, and then part of that was also just like grounding yourself in the decision you made, and like, yes, it's uh having to own it, right?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: And no apologies for it.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, right, and and it's like either it right, not even right or wrong, but like you're making the best decision you can in that moment with the impact with the information you have.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly and you can't keep pushing.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's like really so much precious energy of yours you could put to that thing, and you gotta move on.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: So she's so good at that, and still is, I think, um, now every now and again.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes now we you know, when your coaching is so good that you you say the thing and then you hear silence, and I'm like, I know what you're gonna say.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, What am I gonna say?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, I know.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Well, I'm doing that thing, okay, okay.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: And this is such a hack.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I wish I remember when I started an executive coaching program, and I had never, I did not, I was not aware of that whole world at that time.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would I had like heard of people having coaches here and there, but I didn't.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: And then as soon as I engaged with somebody and I was talking to others, they're like, I have an executive coach.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have an executive coach.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what the fuck do you mean you have an executive?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody have an executive coach.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I never knew that was a thing.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, this is something I would say to people over and over if you have the access or resources or whatever it is, um, and you have that option in front of you, it's an always a yes.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: As long as you find somebody that's aligned with your values and can actually like coach.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: In the way that works for you.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's like finding a therapist.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: I say that and I don't mean it lightly.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: You have to find the right fit for you because the level of trust has to be built in such a way that you know that when they're speaking into something for you, they're doing it A with your best interest, but also right because there's a lot of like noise out in that world right now.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: So finding somebody that is actually going to support you in the way that you deserve to be supported, it is like the biggest career hack, I think.
• 44:29
  unknown: Yeah.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, and I you know, for me, I feel like executive coaching should be at all levels.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like I agree.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's for just for executives.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is and it would have ex I think it accelerates your your financial um uh uh position if you do it earlier in your career.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and so part of me is thinking about like how do nonprofits as a whole do more coaching for all levels of leadership because we all benefit from having somebody help understand kind of where we are, and also they're basically the conduit for you to understand where you are and where you want to go, right?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so I do think um, I I hope at some point we, you know, um we figure that out as nonprofits and that we can provide more career.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, just in general, I I mean a dear mutual friend of ours who we were talking about earlier is also she's very interested in that space of how do you coach people at that mid-career level, because a lot of times that's where so much burnout starts to happen, right?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like folks that are put into management or leadership positions that because they were quote unquote good at the job but don't have any experience at the management level, and it's like best of luck to you, hope you don't fail.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, What?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like there is no, there's not a lot of support for that mid-level.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: And even to be asking yourself those important questions that you should be asking then around, like, are you still aligned with the work?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Are you still aligned with, you know, does this is this still even the life that you want, right?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: These are things that we are in the practice of doing.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, to wait until we're at the executive level is it can be a bit jarring too, I think.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, way better to get ahead of it.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's aligned with a question I have around kind of your idea of success, and has your idea or kind of like vision of success for yourself evolved over the years?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I have failed a lot in life in different points earlier on in my career.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like I I'm really comfortable, you know, and I'm okay to fail, like I can fail fast, you know, and and be okay with that and move on with my life in a different way.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think for me, success um used to be, you know, um like growing at an organization like I have at YLI.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that's success to me, and it was, and it's been very important.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I but I really think that I've shifted to success feeling like um when you feel like satiated by what you do, you are successful.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I'm like, oh my god, give me that.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm like, give me that, you know, like this.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: I had a team meeting this morning and we had to make some decisions, and I'm just man, I love every minute I'm with those folks.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love it to no end, and I'm satiated by it, and I feel like um I'm doing exactly what I need to be doing at the time I'm supposed to be doing it.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I think success looks different to me now.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where before I think leadership opportunities have really taught me a lot, and I'm thankful for them.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I would those may be your traditional success uh technique markers, but for me today, it's much more about like, am I satiated by what I am doing in this moment?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's rock, let's do it, let's let's let's leave there.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um managing your success is also, I think, uh managing your depletion levels so that you have something to give to your family and to your loved ones, whatever the whatever that makeup is for you in your life.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so if I can also be fully attentive to my partner and fully attentive to my son and try to like you know, be there and be fully present and ask all the questions and keep up with all the cheese man out of middle school right now, you know, and I try to like if I'm there too, I I feel successful.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_02: Hell yeah.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, statiated, what a great word.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: I I was just listening to an interview with Ina Garten, and the interviewer was asking, you know, like what how she chooses the things at 78 that she's still gonna be doing.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: And she says, Well, it's gotta be fun.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: And she dug a couple layers deeper, and she by the time I got back to it, she's like, I don't mean fun.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: When I say fun, I don't mean like roller coasters and you know, rainbows.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like when I say fun, I mean like I love a gnarly problem.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like I love doing something for the first time and trying to figure it out.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: And like, she's like, that's fun to me, right?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think sometimes we can kind of uh narrow down these words in a way that make it seem like follow your passion, you'll never work a day in your life.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that doesn't necessarily work.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's nuance there, and I think satiated is such a great that's such great language for it.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of, you are also launching another business, which is wacky given the fact that you have so much going on, but also so exciting, and I'm thrilled to hear of it because this is something you shared with me some time ago and others too, I'm sure.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I just remember the energy behind it and how excited you were when you were talking about this idea.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: How much can you tell us about it and why now?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's been more than a decade uh of dreaming up and feeling like I I think it's actually super timed with wild eye.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: So um, when I went to my interim CEO, which I didn't realize I'd be getting that, I knew something big was coming, but I wasn't sure if I'd asked to to step into that role.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I had this like spidey sense that I would, and so I when I got dressed that day, I didn't own a suit, like a matching suit, like a jacket and pants.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I had like mismatched clothes because I've always had a hard time shopping.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because as a non-binary person, I I don't always like the way women's pants fit.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I love men's suit jackets, but they're so big that you spend a ton of money tailoring them to make them work.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: So this like kind of thing that worked and this button down that I like loved um that worked well um in my in my like um my black shoes, which were like um Oxford shoes.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so I was like, I thought I looked nice, and the whole time trying to move my jacket around because it's like a woman jacket, which you know they they they curve, right?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm not trying to pass my curves if you want to work with you, but I am not.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't like that's not the look I was going for.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, so I got I got the offer, and ever since that point, I was like, oh, I need to get clothes and I need to like look a certain way, and I need to um, and I found myself often over and over and over uh tailoring my clothes and spending so much money tailoring going into the men's section and not really finding exactly what I wanted, and then going into women's section and being like kind of disappointed by the amount of curves we have to consistently show.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was just gonna say, you're making a comment more broadly.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, what is going on?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: So for years, I have I take takes forever to find the right pants, it takes forever to find the right shorts, takes forever to get the right jacket, anyway.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I've always dreamed of launching a uh like non-binary, you know, more mask brand.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um it's called Them Tops.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm launching it any day now, which feels like um and it we're focusing on you know clothing for mask of center folks, which mask of center is kind of a way uh to describe anybody whose like identity um or presentation like sort of leads more masculine than feminine on a spectrum of masculinity, right?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're all in a spectrum in different ways and how we show up, how we move, how we talk, how we behave, what we wear.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really thrilled.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like a um a love letter to all the mask-identified folks out there that consistently face this challenge every single day.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_01: They go to a store and they don't see themselves represented.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's a love letter to um my past self who was always you know hoping to find something and now will.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I think in in a large large part it's a love letter to my son, who like he's this really fascinating guy who um has like a level of rigor the way he approaches life that is so awe-inspiring that that this is a love letter to him to say, like, I'm matching your energy in life, and I'm doing something that I deeply, deeply am moved by, but I've always wanted to do, and you can do, and you know, this is for the like you can do anything you put your mind to.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want him to know that I did this because he he is so um so focused and put so much rigor into the things he loves, and if I had half of that energy, I don't know, you know, like so.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just trying to meet him where he's at, and I hope he's really coming as launched.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree, my friend, considering the level of you know, us using language around responsibility and intention, and the gas tank being full empty at the end of the day.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I would I would say yes, you're there matching him already.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I love that you get to put this out into the world in a way that feels right to you, and it is such an exciting time.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the beginning of any business is such an exciting time, it's a wild ride, but it's also, I like to think of it now as you only get to do that thing for the first time once.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so even if it's really, really hard, or even if it feels terrifying, you'll never get it like this again.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like you get to be present in this particular moment only once.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then if you, you know, five years down the line and it's going great, like it will never be what it was today at this moment, and it's like I think one of the best feelings.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just like feeling the energy for you that is so excited for you.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would love to ask you.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, I always the advice I give when anybody's getting married, and if you're walking if you're walking down an aisle, I always say walk really slowly because it's the only time you're gonna get to do this, right?
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking yes, this is your true love you'll be with till the end of time.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: Fingers crossed.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Fingers crossed, fingers crossed.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if things happen and like we've but like uh but I really appreciate you saying the like enjoying this now because it is the one time I get to be sort of fully in.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate you saying.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, absolutely.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's a real thing.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's just it's a thing I have had to navigate as I also, you know, when you were talking about the the taking things personal, I also think of that from like we're all many of us have a level of perfectionism or ambition, and you know, we want things done right and we want them done a certain way.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so like when you're entering that space, the the the heaviness can feel heavy because you're like, I want this, and I especially if you care so much about the thing.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like you're just like, Well, we'll see how this goes, like, hope it's okay.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, this is like matters.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's looking at the fear and the other side of that of excitement, right?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same, it's coming from the same space in our bodies, and so try I try really hard to remember that for myself.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: I have two last questions for you.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: One, because now that you have worked with the board for as long as you have, and now you are also on the board for the state bar of California, by the way, which is I remember when you shared this, I'm like, I'm sorry, what?
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what does that even mean?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like hella impressive and like really responsible, and I don't know, but it sounds awesome.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: So guaranteed a different experience than what it means, obviously, to be on a you know a volunteer board like we were for a while.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: But like, what do you think just generally makes somebody a really good board member?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I have so much to say that could take like 10 minutes answering.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh okay, so there's a couple of things.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll give you my top top, which is like one is um you gotta know your role and you gotta know your lane.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think that's really important because it's very easy to flip into a different lane on a board and on an organization.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: So knowing knowing your lane, I think um the second is acting.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, half the uh the mechanics of being a board member has been written, right?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can read a book right now on all the different things on your fiduciary duties, um, and and learn that way.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: But the the thing about boards is understanding that you gotta you have to be active, both as decisions at the organization, but you have to be active in the in-between meetings to advance the work.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's the responsibility, I think, um, is to act, um, obviously in the best interest of the org, but like to like do the thing that you said you were going to do.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then the third thing I would say is um really supporting your I think folks need to understand what's on the plate of their executive directors and CEOs, um but also empower folks to have the autonomy and independence to move things forward.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like a balance, like the ability to balance that is is really important.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Those are my top three, but you had those ready to go.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: I love it, I love it.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's so interesting after serving on you know the wild eye board.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now I look at other opportunity folks have you know asked questions about availability.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: And when I am so I think that the again, the responsibility we keep coming back to this, but it's you're choosing to take on the responsibility, it's not just about like, oh, you're getting something nice upon your resume, right?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like there is so much importance to what that role means, and I think particularly as a volunteer board, because you are being asked to show up and give of your time, and that is what you're being asked to do, and it can be, you know, there is um you it can be really easy to either overdo it to your point where you're like you know not remembering the lane piece that you were talking about, or to like underdo it and not be present and not be, and so but then why even say yes, you know?
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the things that you did as my as my you know, as my chair and my co-chair, um, as somebody that I really admire in this work, um, is that you pass such good questions and such at it at different inflection points that then help me step back and be like, oh, okay, yeah.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um or you ask the thing that I don't think a lot of folks ask, which is like, what are we not seeing right now that you're seeing?
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you could ask like those types of questions where you could get me to get more direct about what it is that I was trying to um share.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I think you've also asked me, um, you know, we get really positive stories about what's going on, but what's not going well is also I think I think asking really good questions is something is a what a lot of the gifts you gave me, not the only ones.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think when you can ask good questions, you can get to the core of the issue faster, obviously, and and also help leaders articulate what it is they actually need in the moment.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for that.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I think you I think that it's yes, I mean, after plenty of experience of seeing people not ask for the hard stuff, right?
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: You see what happens and you if you care about an organization, you gotta get to that stuff too, right?
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I love I love that.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think that anybody that is considering board service, or you know, there's there's so many ways to contribute.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think your lens is particularly helpful given that you've been on both sides.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, last question, and it's around legacy, and of course, everything that you've shared in this conversation kind of a lot of what you've shared is already kind of an answer to the question.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I think if we're kind of just trying to boil it down, um, when I think about legacy and what we're all building toward every day and thinking about what we care about in the world and the impact that we want to have, right?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: Not necessarily the big giant thing that we're leaving behind, with that can be part of it, but you know, just generally speaking, what does building a legacy mean to you?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've I've thought a lot about this.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is about I think if somebody was like, oh wow, and was like referencing me and was talking about my legacy, I hope that what they're talking about is somebody who um stood up for what's right, even when it was hard, somebody who really took care of their people.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, I think the the organizational structure you create is so very important because it's people's lives, and um those lives are caring for other really important lives as well.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for me, all the organizational leadership work that I've done, I hope that that's a legacy and I'm and I'm really a model for what nonprofits can do around benefits, around professional development, around coaching, around all kinds of really rad things.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: I hope I'm building a little bit of a roadmap for organizational leadership.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: I hope I get to teach it at some point in my life.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the the last, but I think probably the most core is you know, we we have sort of a uh as part of our organizational culture, we've sort of moved, and I think I've really modeled the like you know, you gotta take care of your family, chose inner bio, and um and that comes first.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when you can give people that the freedom to be them their full selves at work and the freedom to walk away and say, I'm gonna have to go to my son's back to school night, you absolutely have to be at that back to school night, right?
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna figure out how to make sure you are there.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody has that at the organization, and like do in large part, I think, to me, consistently pushing that message of like you gotta take care of your people first, you gotta take care of yourself too, right?
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: In that process.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh if I leave a legacy, I hope folks feel like Patty taught us that.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: Patty taught us that you know it's really important that you prioritize your people, whoever those people are in your life, um, and your loved ones, and everything else comes after.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: Hell yeah.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so we need more of that in general.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I cannot wait for years from now when you get a clip of someone that you've inspired speaking on a podcast, talking about exactly what you just shared and how you've impacted them.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you better be sharing that with me when that happens.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so grateful that I just got this hour with you.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so so much for doing this with me.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for capturing so many different stories.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've been listening to them all um on this, and I feel like there's so many, so much wisdom you're kind of um redeploying into the world right now with listen and helping folks really feel seen.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for making me feel seen and others and uh keep doing what you do.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, friend.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: Love you.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Love you too.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_02: See you soon.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for listening and spending some of your time with me here.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: I hope our conversation sparked some new ideas for you.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you enjoyed the episode, please make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're ready for even more tools and stories, head on over to beldenstrategies.com slash newsletter.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: I share fresh insights, stories, and tools for women leaders every week.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time, keep building, keep evolving, and remember that you are kind of a big deal.