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Luca Besana - The Key to Winning the Southern European Channel · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about partnerships, and channel on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My name is Alex Whitford, I'm the VP of Revenue here at Chanix and this week I'm very excited to welcome our special guest Luca.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Great, I'm more than happy to be here.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, alex you.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm really excited to have you on.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I think we're going to have a really fun conversation.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe, for the uninitiated, you could give us a bit of an introduction into who you are and what you do.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Sure, and with much pleasure, because, coming from the south of Europe mainly, it's not so common to have this opportunity, so I will be more than happy to share some highlights.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: So my name is luca bezana I I'm in the channel, so I've been working in the channel since the beginning of 2010, so it's almost 15 years, maybe something more, that I'm in the channel, so I never left the role.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: We have various job roles, from channel sales to channel account management, channel directorship.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: I actually occupy a position in cybersecurity not only in channel for the last 20 years, so this is my landscape.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Currently I'm responsible for the partner ecosystem at Centrum One in the Mediterranean.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: So Iberia, italy and Israel, plus Cyprus, malta and Greece.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: It describes, it explains that when it comes to channel now we are not just talking with distributors or value-added resellers, because there are a lot of companies that we are dealing with and they are supporting for doing business, so I'm responsible for whatever is channel in the most open significance.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Well, you manage one of the most interesting markets, I think, right across amea.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: When I ran zoom's distribution strategy across amea, it was my first time, one managing people in those regions, but two building a channel ecosystem in those regions.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: And there are a few nuances, especially from someone who is english in an english-speaking world.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Right, there are some nuances that come to managing those regions and building channels in those regions.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear about some of the nuances that you've spotted, managing everything from Italy to Israel.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Well, you got it.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: This is something we always, you know, try to explain, even to Northern Europeans, and I always don't like to end up saying we are different, so this is something that happens sooner or later.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I don't like it, but actually we are different in that kind of it, because if you put together the quality of a product and the relationship you have built in a country, probably the importance of the relationship in Spain and Italy is widely higher than compared to Northern Europe or the US.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Even so, what I always love to explain is that our territory is driven by a relationship, so it's a relationship-driven business.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Trust, local presence, for example, being there, being on a project together, are qualities that are at least important as selling a great product, and sometimes companies that maybe have the best product in a specific field or, what we say, the best story in a specific landscape whatsoever, they end up losing if they don't understand that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: So being there, being local, understanding the mindset, understanding the language, is extremely important when you deal in a market there.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Probably, we share two different situations.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: One is the beliefs that we are big enough to be independent, and this is equal for Spain, italy, but even France, and at the same level, we have a very tricky low situation, general situation that are not the same level or not probably at the same tone of what happens outside.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: So putting together these two, um specific situations, we end up being the different.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Uh, that I don't like to say, but I have to admit we are yeah, I, it's something certainly I experienced as well, right, I think one of the things and it was a bit funny working at Zoom during COVID because, you know, suddenly I went from having, you know, three or four meetings a week with customers to suddenly having three or four meetings a morning with customers because everything's done online least a lot happened in southern europe.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: The business really suffered as a result because so much business was done face to face, um, which I think was something that it took me a little bit of time to, to learn how to therefore handle some of that different, uh, velocity of deals and different sort of negotiation styles.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I know one of the things that, um, I hear from a lot of leaders of those regions is that you end up having to sort of communicate and re-communicate these nuances.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that I'd love to understand from you are what are some of the top sort of misconceptions that you see from people like myself who've never looked after that region in detail, where you sort of say, hey, I think this is the way the world works and you have to sort of correct my belief.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: How do you sort of overcome some of those?
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Let me do a very quick step back, saying it's not a misconception, but this is something for us is more important probably than elsewhere is the on-site meeting, for example.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So for us, meeting in person or doing the commute for reaching the partner office or the customer office is a sort of way of the importance that that meeting has for you.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: So, in our mindset, if you don't have the energy or the willingness to commute and meet me in person, it means that you are not interested in that business enough.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, so this is part of the culture and probably of the mentality.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: For instance, the reason why there's a higher reliance on local distributors over hyper-staters or over global distributors is because they better know the local landscape.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: So and probably this is not something we can compare with Northern Europe or the UK business.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Then I think that probably one of the misconceptions we need to work on the most and we like to explain and explain and explain, is that probably a single go-to-market strategy cannot work across all the countries everywhere.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: So, um, at the same time, it's imperative to have one single go-to-market motion, because if you don't have something to measure, you end up messing up everything, because you cannot rely on numbers or metrics anymore.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: So it's important to measure all the countries at the same level, on the same metrics, on the same things, and this is something that I mean it's a good practice of all the companies of success.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: At the same time, it's important to realize the nuances of the countries, of the cultures, and at the same time it's important not to underestimate the importance of local relationship.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: In our UK, to rely on the local assessment of managers, of business owners and something like that.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: At the same time, here the weight of politics, relationships, carries really a significance that is not easy to explain and but at the same time determines the success or failure of a real business strategy yeah, I, uh, I think it's so critical to understand some of those nuances, right, and I think, um, as someone who's, you know, been responsible for a broad region strategy, it really is, you're, you're so correct.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: First, you have to start from globalization, right, how do we build the same practice everywhere?
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Because if you get that wrong, the strategy it really is, you're so correct.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: First, you have to start from globalization, right.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: How do we build the same practice everywhere?
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Because if you get that wrong, the fundaments will break apart.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: But then version two is then, how do we go from globalization to localization?
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think where so many leaders get this wrong is they start with localization first, and then the problem is, once it all weaves back up to global, all works very differently, it's all very complicated, but if you can start with those global standards and then work down, this is where the best programs come from and it's even, uh, sorry for bargini, but it's important.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and you, let me realize something starting from the localization and going to the globalization, open to a bias which is the opposite.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: It's not sure that what's working Mediterranean or in South, so work in the UK, in the Nordics or in the US, because of the fact that we are so, let's say again, different.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: It's a other way around.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: So, uh, and that's why it's important to start from the globalization, address the most successful countries and then start localizing, addressing even the more complex markets, like we are 100%.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I think one of my favorite and I spend a lot of time in my role as VP of Revenue talking around this is the requirement for localization of marketing, right, which is, hey, one thing is to understand that Spanish people speak Spanish, sure, but maybe culturally, some of the messaging that works in Mexico is not the same as works in Spain, even if the language is consistent, right, because speaking the same language culturally is more than just speaking the same language phonetically, right?
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: So I'd love to understand because I know you really care about, about this topic what does speaking the same language culturally mean to you?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: well, it's definitely more than just knowing the language.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: So knowing the language means more than you know speaking the same, it's more understand, understanding how the business is conducted.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: As an example, what are the influences for buying decisions?
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: So well, are we sure that the way a contract is signed in Spain is equal in Italy, in France or in the Nordics?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So, for example, business negotiations in the South tend to be more relationship-based.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Again, maybe it's not the product, maybe it's not even the financial process, maybe it's because we are in a relationship, or maybe because in my previous company I was of support and so I gained some credits that you can or you won't use now.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I know it sounds like crazy, but sometimes the reason why a contract is signed in the South is far away from the product or the technology itself.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: And that happens to be in very contrast with the more, let's say, say, transactional market, where decisions are made on financial, on techie, and maybe easier to measure because they are not open to last-minute nuances that can scratch one deal, for example.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the nuances there culturally are so important to sort of build the right foundations of the the sort of go-to-market strategy.
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: But one of the foundations of go-to-market strategy is actually presence right, having physical people in the right countries.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I I know previously you've benefited from some of your competitors not having physical presence in key markets.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: How did that absence of personnel affect your ability to go to market?
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I think this is something that, in our region, is instrumental to get out the most potential that our countries can offer.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Let's get to Italy and Spain.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: We are the fourth and the sixth countries in Europe for GDP.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: The potential here is huge.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: The vast majority of the business is SMB.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: The vast majority of the companies are not European-wide, maybe they're just local companies and they want to speak local.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: But it's not enough for me to be local in terms of, let's say, in terms of vendor.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: We need to be local with emotion, so we need to have our district book to local partners, local, and we need to be able to speak the very own language of those.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: When we are able to demonstrate the country, that the country is really important to us and we feel the need to improve, so there is when the magic happens and so we can think about seeing a real flywheel.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: But being present, being there, is a real need even for partners to invest.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: What I've seen in the last 10 years and I mean talking about the experience partners really commit themselves when they see you there, because it's a demonstration that the company you're working for really care that country.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Again, like I mentioned before, I'm not.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: I think you're not interested in a business.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: If you don't commute to my office, I feel you're not interested in this country.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: If you don't commute for to my office, I feel you're not interested in this country if you don't open your office, if you're, if you don't have a person managing the business, opening the business there and a lot of um.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Again, talking about experience, I see a lot of major brands, a lot of major vendors, competitors or not even on very wide scenario of my business opportunities that are maybe absent in a specific market.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Let's say, a company which is doing great on everywhere but they don't have anyone in Italy.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: They will suffer in Italy because this lack of presence creates a real vacuum that competitors will feel sooner or later, because the market is more keen in investing in who have invested in the country, but the best product in the field of yeah, we talk a lot on this podcast and I think I'm going to add another level to it based on your feedback but we talk a lot about program, not product.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I think the days of products being the key differentiator between businesses being successful are sort of long gone.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Products that are very, very good broadly achieve 90 to 95% of the same quality, and so the thing that separates channel success is program right.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: How well is your program designed?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: How much do partners want to participate?
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: But I think the very last bit is personnel right.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: What talent do you have within your organization to drive your program, to drive your product?
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: And where is that personnel based right?
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Are they, you know, if they're all HQ'd in LA, well, congratulations.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're going to do really well in the US, but that's going to be hard to play in Paris.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: It's going to be hard to play in Munich.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: It's going to be hard to play in Milan, because those regions need local support and they want proof that you are invested in that country.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: I've seen and one of the stories that I often tell around just how smart Microsoft are and how well they play the game is Microsoft opened their HQ in Paris, not in London.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Now that's extremely rare for a US business to open their HQ not in London for their European outfit.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Because they knew the UK market would follow.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Right, because the UK market follows the US market.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: They right, because the UK market follows the US market.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: They're very, very interchangeable.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: They're very, very related.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: But they know French people like to buy from French people and French people like to see investment in France.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And so they played smart, which is they opened.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: A small is a strong word.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: They opened a very large office in the UK.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: They opened a European HQ in Paris to help bring the French market because it's one of the harder markets to win buying an American company.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: You've seen a very similar thing where lots of businesses are HQing or opening offices in different regions, maybe smaller regions across Europe.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Talk to me around how you see this trend reshaping the channel landscape.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Well, it's still ongoing and I think we're still far from saying this is a new chapter or this is game-changing.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: But what we are assisting to is that companies that are quartered in Italy or in Spain or even in France are even if I'm less experienced on France market.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: So that's why we stick on Spain and Italy, which is what I master the most.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: So, companies that are opening branches in other countries, and it's quite wider, even MEI-wise, so companies from the UK opening branches in Spain, in Italy, or hiring people or opening real new branches, maybe acquiring companies from the market.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I think that this is great because finally it resonates like European Union, because actually, if you do the comparison with the US, finally it resonates like European Union Because actually, if you do the comparison with the US, it's like having a branch in California, in Nevada and in Colorado.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: So I think it's just normal to see companies that have a broad skill set around the topic and willing to sell it to more countries than just one single one.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: The problem is with us vendors, because this means that we need to adapt our banally speaking or trivially speaking, channel strategies.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: So how we can support these regional expansions, because maybe some of them are out of my scope in terms of business manager.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: So who is leading multi-countries relationship?
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: So probably we will see new business opportunities or maybe new job roles coming in thanks to this new reshaping in the ecosystem.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Thanks to this new reshaping in the ecosystem, I'm sure that this will for sure create new opportunities for agile vendors, because the more you understand this topic and the more ready you are for embracing this shift, you will be advantaged in the future, which is even advantaged in a future which is even ready to be written but is not there yet.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm clear enough.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: No, I think that makes perfect sense for sure.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: So, again, it's a shift, for sure it's a game changer.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know and I don't know, and why?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know, because today we live in a situation where the belonging is even too important and what I see, for example, is that a lot of companies opening branches outside the country region, they are suffering because they are seen like, you know, the foreigner in country and sometimes they lack the comprehension of the countries that they are landing in.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: So I think we are still far from this program to be consolidated, but I'm strongly believer that sooner or later we will go into that direction, at least in big regions South, central and North, for example but sooner or later we will start reducing the gaps of the countries.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: I completely agree.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I think I can leave the audience with one data point to finalize.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: You touched on Spain and Italy being the fourth and sixth economies of Europe.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: We do a lot of business with Chanex, with companies that focus on SMB, and when we started having conversations with these companies, they kept bringing up Spain all the time.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Right, spain, spain, spain.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I was always really surprised because you speak to US companies and you think, hey, we're going to hear about UK, france, germany, right, the typical focus for European sort of entry.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: But Spain is actually one of the largest SMB economies globally, right?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Most of the business, despite the fact it's a very large economy, most of that, just economically, is SMB orientated.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: And so suddenly I'm hearing American program leaders talking about Spain as one of the key territories globally for them to sort of win in.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: You can start to see if that becomes your priority, then how do you build your program, your organization and your product around making that successful?
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: That isn't by doing a continuation of what we've always done.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: We have to sort of change how our go-to-market works.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So, luca, thank you for sharing your insights.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: We also like to build a really easy go-to-market.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Here at Partnerships Unraveled, we always ask our current guest to recommend our next guest.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: Who did you have in mind?
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: A friend of mine, probably one of the, let's say, my mentors, fabio Bucciagrossi, who is currently accounting manager for iZet, so on paper, a competitor of the company I work for, but a person with a real, let's say, open vision and wide vision on channel and sales, and now, as a country manager in a company like Italy, can put together the two topics, the two, let's say, beliefs, in one, and I think that, talking with him, it could be very enlightening for the audience to maybe go deeper into the messages that we have today, because what Fabio leaves is exactly the same ecosystem I'm involved in, but, you know, being a country manager, I think that it can touch even the how can I say, how we can touch the topic with the management, the upper management, and I think you can go broad, even into that.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: That's why I have Fabio in mind, because I think it will be a great discussion for you.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Well, Fabio, we're coming from you.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Luca, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge today.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: It's been awesome.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you, alex, and thank you for the opportunity, much appreciated.