Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Don't Tell Your Husband You're A Good Wife To Him When You Mean You're A Good Mother To The Kids
Transcript
- 0:05Hi everybody, and welcome to the dr.
- 0:07Psych mom show today, I'm going to be talking about when women
- 0:11say that they're being a good wife but what they really mean
- 0:13is there being a good mom and before we get to that and I will
- 0:17explain what I mean. But before please do subscribe,
- 0:21my most recent episode was on what I call the stupid man cold
- 0:25idea and how it's pretty sexist and in fact science backs me up
- 0:30on on that it's not a fair thing to say so you'll probably want
- 0:34to listen to that because really a big part of why I do this
- 0:38podcast and my pose and everything is to help people
- 0:42interrogate their cognitive distortions.
- 0:45And one area of cognitive distortions is frequently gender
- 0:48bias. And certainly I wouldn't want
- 0:51men to go around saying that women are terrible.
- 0:54But also women going around saying that men are terrible,
- 0:56which is unfortunately, socially condoned more nowadays.
- 1:00That's also not good, you know? I mean that that's also unfair
- 1:03and it's Pretty fucked up, really?
- 1:06So that's why I do that. Okay, so what do I mean by, when
- 1:11women say that they are a good wife through?
- 1:13Really mean that they're a good mother.
- 1:14This is not all women obviously, but frequently in couples
- 1:17counseling. I mean, all the time in couples
- 1:20counseling, both people are trying to work on being better,
- 1:23spouses, sometimes that's because there's resentment.
- 1:26That's built up that prevents them from being a good spouse,
- 1:29sometimes, they are, they just never really learned what it's
- 1:33like to be in a Healthy relationship because of how they
- 1:36grew up. That's very frequent.
- 1:38I almost never see people in couples counseling where people
- 1:41had real healthy Role Models because otherwise would be a
- 1:44hell of a lot easier for them to be married, you know?
- 1:48And so a lot of times women say, I am a good wife to him and he's
- 1:54not a good husband to me. And when they have, when they
- 1:58give examples, the examples are not really being a good wife.
- 2:03They're being a good mother. And so there's a lot of women
- 2:07that say things like. Well, I do all the emotional
- 2:09labor. You guys know what I think of
- 2:11emotional labor? This is not even, I mean, I've
- 2:14discussed this a lot, but I mean, emotional labor was never
- 2:17meant to be to mean what it does.
- 2:20Now it was like, people like stewardesses and bartenders that
- 2:24have to be nice and happy as part of their job.
- 2:28That is emotional labor, but now it means doing the Christmas
- 2:32cards for your family, which thankfully I think is on its way
- 2:34out. A out.
- 2:35People don't say it as much anymore.
- 2:37But anyway, I deeply dislike it and I talked about why you could
- 2:42just go to dr. Psych mom.com.
- 2:44And look up emotional labor. I think I've liked for articles
- 2:48on it and I think a podcast to. But anyway, so they say, well,
- 2:52I'm the one who organizes holidays.
- 2:54I buy gifts for your mother, I make dinner and that nowadays,
- 3:00it's rare that the woman makes dinner all the time, but if she
- 3:02makes dinner, she makes dinner I do the various Camp forms, I
- 3:08signed the kids up for extracurriculars and on top of
- 3:11that like once a week you get to go do your hobby.
- 3:14And I don't even do that. I don't even have a hobby.
- 3:18So this is ways that I'm a good wife and you don't see what you
- 3:22see what's missing from the list, right?
- 3:24Is the number one thing that men want, which is physical touch
- 3:26and sex. So, but she says, look, I'm a
- 3:30good wife and all these other ways.
- 3:31And so, then that stops her from working on and really looking
- 3:35clearly at the things that she is not doing which are really
- 3:39the only things that matter to the guy.
- 3:42Because I, as I've talked about many times guys don't really
- 3:45care about acts of service. And if you look at it though,
- 3:48there's none of these acts of service that are really for him
- 3:50at all, therefore, the children. So my Criterion for something
- 3:54that makes you a good spouse is, you can't say that it makes you
- 3:59a good spouse if you would also do it after divorce, right?
- 4:02I mean like, that seems logical if You know, if you think about
- 4:05it like that, if you would do the thing after you divorced,
- 4:09then it can't be the exemplification of being a good
- 4:12spouse definitionally, right? So for for example, there is
- 4:17many women that complain about the emotional labor of picking
- 4:21the kids extracurriculars, right after divorce, the large
- 4:24majority of them become very upset.
- 4:27If they're not allowed to pick the extracurriculars and it
- 4:29becomes a positive, you know, because they always wanted to
- 4:33pick the extracurriculars And that maybe they didn't want to
- 4:36do the forms, but they'll pick doing the forms.
- 4:38If they also get to pick the extracurriculars, you know, and
- 4:42it's a or like vacation like they would plan a vacation for
- 4:47the family but they do that after divorce for them and the
- 4:50kids, you know, I mean so like it didn't really have to do with
- 4:54anything related to the man. In fact, if he died never even
- 4:57mind divorce but if he died she would do all these same things
- 5:00so then therefore can't really make her a good wife.
- 5:02So rarely do I see like Woman anymore, who cooks like, what
- 5:06are husband most likes for dinner?
- 5:08Even if it's not the kids, favor, in this case, and if he
- 5:11very much values food and used to get taken care of at home, by
- 5:15his mother cooking for him, and he very much values it and
- 5:17you're always making his favorites then cool.
- 5:20Maybe that is, you know, being a good wife, I rarely rarely see
- 5:25this. And, of course, it's a very
- 5:26different world. Now, there's doordash, there's
- 5:28all sorts of shit, you know, people eat out all the time men,
- 5:31cook much more frequently. I see I mean, I can't give
- 5:36numbers but it'll at least, I would say, half the time, if not
- 5:39more, the men in my office are the ones who are cooking for the
- 5:42family at least half the time if not more.
- 5:45So I mean that one all right. I guess, you know, if you're
- 5:49always if this is like a special thing between you guys and
- 5:52you're always making his favorite food, that's nice, you
- 5:55know, but you would here's another Criterion.
- 5:58He has some value with more than other things that he says that
- 6:02he actually values. So if you don't have Sex with
- 6:05him, but you're always making his favorite foods.
- 6:08If you ask him, directly do you. Would you rather the favorite
- 6:12foods or would you rather sex and he says food?
- 6:14Well, good, you're good to go. Unless, of course you, you know,
- 6:18cried and emotionally blackmailed him kind of saying,
- 6:21like, wouldn't you miss all these wonderful things that I
- 6:23make for you? And isn't that more important
- 6:25than just sex? And then he feels bad and
- 6:28whatever. And then he says, oh yeah yeah
- 6:30but like if you just outright ask him you know like would you
- 6:34rather Either I have the energy for more physical contact, or I
- 6:37really work on that or I go to therapy to address.
- 6:40Why I hate sex or whatever the case may be.
- 6:43Would you rather that or that I make all your favorite lunches?
- 6:46I mean he's going to say sex, you know in like 80% of the
- 6:49time, if not like 99% of the time I'm just being
- 6:53conservative. They are because whatever
- 6:57statistics I could find indicate that 20% of the time women are
- 7:00the higher libido partner. So in those cases may be the man
- 7:03really values the Food or whatever, you know, other things
- 7:07but it's got to be for him at all and this is like where it
- 7:11goes awry where the women say that something they're doing
- 7:13quote for the family is for him. No, it's something you would do.
- 7:17Even if he wasn't there, if you divorce you would be making the
- 7:21food for the kids during your night.
- 7:22So that would be half the time. You would be usually begging for
- 7:26more time really a majority you know of women that I interact
- 7:30with will always take the kids for an extra night after divorce
- 7:33and want them for Or more of the time than 50/50, even if that's
- 7:37what they have to have. So if you would want this and
- 7:41look forward to this and if you didn't look forward to coking,
- 7:44you would order out or whatever and you would keep your home
- 7:48nicely or clean or however you would do that after divorce.
- 7:51And you would obviously, as I said, try to pick out the
- 7:55extracurriculars or if not, you know, how they would have no
- 7:58extracurriculars, whatever you would do after divorce for the
- 8:01children, definitionally cannot be.
- 8:03You being a good one. So then there's a big one, which
- 8:06women put in that says, what about that?
- 8:08I maintain contact with your relatives and I send them
- 8:11present almost to a man, every man that's allowed to have an
- 8:15opinion. And of course, Every Man's
- 8:17allowed to have an opinion, right?
- 8:18Because some men struggle with passivity low self-esteem.
- 8:21They can assert themselves. So that's what I mean by not
- 8:23allowed. So I should really say in a
- 8:25dynamic where he is like we're it's not okay for him to talk
- 8:30which is co-created by him. For sure.
- 8:32There's no women that unless she has a gun to your head, you I
- 8:34can talk, right? But in some Dynamics it's not
- 8:37really like acceptable. That's just not what's done.
- 8:40So in all the Dynamics were the man's allowed to be honest.
- 8:42He says, don't do it. I never said, flowers to my
- 8:45mother on her birthday before I met you.
- 8:47I don't need to be sending him now.
- 8:48It's a nice thing you do, but it's between you and my mother.
- 8:51You don't want to do it, don't do it and of course post-divorce
- 8:54she would no longer do it, you know, in most cases but in some
- 8:58cases she's real close to the woman and you know they would
- 9:00send flowers back and forth to each other still, but it doesn't
- 9:03have anything to do with the guy.
- 9:04He doesn't want it, he didn't do it before.
- 9:06You know, he didn't value it. And when he was a teenage boy,
- 9:10you know he didn't think I really want a girlfriend so she
- 9:12could send flowers to my mother. You know what he thought was?
- 9:15I really want a girlfriend because we're going to do all
- 9:17these wonderful things in bed. She's gonna hug me and kiss me.
- 9:20She's going to look at me. Like she loves me.
- 9:21She's going to laugh at my jokes.
- 9:23She's gonna say nice things. She'll be encouraging and
- 9:25supportive. She'll be somebody, you know,
- 9:28smart and interesting and talented and whatever the case
- 9:32may be those, you know, like as he thinks Us more clearly, as he
- 9:35grows into an actual, man, most men value a woman who is, you
- 9:41know, obviously fascinating and interesting to them physically
- 9:45attractive and warm and loving physically.
- 9:48And this is pretty much it. So, I mean, if you're doing
- 9:51things that that aren't in that very traditional men, do want a
- 9:55woman who can keep a home nicely, but again, you've got to
- 9:58think about how you would keep the home without the man around,
- 10:02you know, if you would like to devolve into Off and you know,
- 10:06then then then do that. You know.
- 10:08I haven't evolved it into filth if you want and I mean he'll
- 10:12probably stepped forward and clean it.
- 10:13The fuck up if he's a guy that really values it and or at that
- 10:17moment, he would say well I guess we should get a
- 10:18housekeeper or, you know, we should I should do more we
- 10:22should hire out more or whatever.
- 10:24But if that's what's stopping, you then stop doing it.
- 10:28If that's what's stopping you from being physically intimate
- 10:30or affectionate then stop doing all those things because Again,
- 10:35in the large majority of cases, the man would find that to be
- 10:38much, much better of a situation and would actually, then think
- 10:41you were being a good wife, this stuff, he doesn't think her a
- 10:44good wife who thinks you're a good mother and that's nice.
- 10:46But like, sometimes women are like, I'm doing this for your
- 10:49kids. It's your kids to right?
- 10:51And you would still be doing it. Of course, you know, it is.
- 10:56It's interesting because it actually is the converse
- 10:59situation that actually makes some sense.
- 11:01Because many men act very different as a Father for the
- 11:06woman versus how they would act after divorce.
- 11:09So there's many fewer women, I changed how they act after
- 11:12divorce toward the children than men men, change how they act
- 11:15after divorce, almost immediately, they stopped all
- 11:18what they considered bullshit rules that didn't matter on
- 11:21their time, they bedtime gets a little bit more loosey-goosey.
- 11:26They don't want the kids to grow up anxious.
- 11:27So they start doing a lot of more activities and sports and,
- 11:31you know, trips with physical, you know, like Skiing and
- 11:35snowboarding just all this shit, right?
- 11:37And great. You know, that's cool and so
- 11:41they parent a lot different. The house isn't always clean.
- 11:45Everything isn't always as regimented because as I
- 11:48discussed frequently, men, don't initiate divorce often, as often
- 11:51as women, but when they do one of the reasons, the few reasons
- 11:55that they do is that the women are too rigid or anxious.
- 11:59So then when they get to parent on their own after divorce, they
- 12:02really want to remediate that. And to provide this
- 12:05counterexample where they are super flexible and the children
- 12:10become, you know, they just do more stuff, they travel, they go
- 12:14places, they can roll with things.
- 12:16They don't always have to eat at a certain way in a certain
- 12:19style, you know. Like that's what men value is
- 12:21the ability to be flexible and to be in all situations easily
- 12:26and therefore to, you know, to roll with shit.
- 12:29But when they're married, the woman really does not want the
- 12:32kids to roll with shit. Usually.
- 12:34And they mother, prioritizes more of a schedule and a
- 12:37routine, you know. So in a best-case scenario that
- 12:42those things can work with each other, right?
- 12:44So the woman can push more for routine.
- 12:46The man pushes more for adventure and the children, get
- 12:49both in a divorce situation. Sometimes they get a little bit
- 12:52too much of one contrasted with little too much of the other.
- 12:55The maybe it evens out and you know, maybe not, who knows.
- 12:58But but either way, that's what would be a best case scenario.
- 13:02But the woman doesn't usually change how she After a divorce
- 13:06because she was not parenting for the man.
- 13:09Whereas, the man was frequently parenting for his wife.
- 13:12He was parenting in ways that made her happy.
- 13:15She would say. Why don't you put down your
- 13:16phone and spend more time with Jimmy?
- 13:17And so, he puts down his phone, he spends more time with Jimmy,
- 13:20even if he had an important work email, he still puts his phone
- 13:23down, and he spends time with Jimmy, because it's not worth a
- 13:25fight and he wants her to be happy.
- 13:27So, that's the more common situation that I see, whereas,
- 13:31after divorce, if he has a work email, he'll finish that.
- 13:34And then Then he'll take Jimmy out and play, you know, or he
- 13:37won't, you know, maybe Jimmy will just do the we at night and
- 13:40not play with him that night and Jimmy doesn't die.
- 13:43Because, you know, Jimmy doesn't.
- 13:45But either way, previously, he was in a environment where it
- 13:50was perceived that Jimmy, might, in fact, die, if he was not
- 13:52responded to contingently in the moment, and the husband went
- 13:56along with this because he wants to make the woman happy.
- 13:59So here's so, that's the parenting piece but just to zoom
- 14:03out if you Do it after divorce, it's not being a good spouse
- 14:08because I've just really proven that, you know, ask and it's can
- 14:13just seems, you know, kind of intuitive.
- 14:15And so if you really trying, then to be a good spouse, you
- 14:19got to do what the person actually says that they value
- 14:22and it's got to be for them. And I've discussed a lot about
- 14:27how physical touch and acts of service or the kind of
- 14:30diametrically opposed Love Languages.
- 14:32Gift is one also its kind of the the most distant that you could
- 14:35get. So what are the ones where you
- 14:37don't actually even have to be around the person, you know,
- 14:40words of affirmation a little bit, you know, I guess you could
- 14:43text them the words of affirmation but it is fairly
- 14:45intimate, you know, to compliment somebody and in a
- 14:47real sense but gifts, you know, I mean you could just stop by
- 14:51something, you know, you put it under the tree and yeah, maybe
- 14:55the guy likes it. Maybe he doesn't.
- 14:56And it's just there among the various gift, you know, and for
- 14:59example, for Christmas, I'm saying and a lot of women don't
- 15:02exactly by the guy. What he would like anyway
- 15:06because he don't like anything because men don't like things
- 15:09really, they like experiences and I see this happen all the
- 15:12time. Where the woman's like, oh, why
- 15:13do I even get him? What does he even like?
- 15:15Well he doesn't really like much.
- 15:16What he would really like, is more sex, more touch, more
- 15:19warmth, but that's not on offer instead.
- 15:22You're trying to buy something, you know, from Sharper Image.
- 15:24So he doesn't really give a shit because he could buy that
- 15:26himself. But the and acts of service to
- 15:29as I've discussed many times, this is a very, this is the only
- 15:32one you could hire out out of all of them.
- 15:34M. So definitionally.
- 15:36It's not as intimate because you could hire it out.
- 15:38So an act of service of making somebody a meal or cleaning the
- 15:43house or whatever. Unless they take this very, very
- 15:47personally, which most men do not, then, you know, it is, it
- 15:52is pretty impersonal and it's also something you don't even
- 15:54have to be around. You could take your wife's car
- 15:58in for an oil change. Well, you didn't even spend time
- 16:00with her so for many women, it is.
- 16:03So there's of course, Many women, married to emotionally
- 16:06avoided men that don't want to engage romantically in the ways
- 16:09that they want where there are physical touch women, you know,
- 16:13even if their sex drive isn't, as high as a sex, as a high sex
- 16:16drive man. They still love physical touch
- 16:19and words of affirmation and quality time.
- 16:21And there's many emotionally avoided men that are the
- 16:24parallel to the emotionally avoidant women and they too like
- 16:28gifts and active service better because it's a hell of a lot
- 16:31easier to buy her flowers or to take her car in.
- 16:34In for an oil change than it is to hang out with her, which is
- 16:36what she really wants. And so physical touch is like
- 16:41the most intimate because you can only do that with your
- 16:43partner. You know, of course you can hire
- 16:46that out but it's not allowed in most marriages and that's not
- 16:49what people want. They don't want go to a
- 16:50prostitute then want to pay for a massage.
- 16:52Maybe they want to pay for a massage maybe supplement airily,
- 16:56but you know, you don't want to have to pay for touch and and
- 16:58it's actually illegal, you know, to do that in many places where
- 17:02as none of the other ones are, especially active service.
- 17:04But the pay for somebody to clean your house, that's
- 17:06consider that you're living the good life.
- 17:08There's like no no downside to that for most people.
- 17:12So, anyway, this is just kind of calling women out in the same
- 17:17ways. I call men out.
- 17:18In fact, I have a podcast that's titled all know, you don't only
- 17:22work to support your wife because that's a big one that I
- 17:25call out to. So like, yeah, I see a man.
- 17:27He's a lawyer, let's say he's wanted to be a lawyer since he
- 17:30was an argumentative little boy. And, you know, I did that, he
- 17:33decided to Be a lawyer and now he's a lawyer is corporate
- 17:36lawyer. Let's say or whatever kind of
- 17:38lawyer the only one I know really and and so I know it's
- 17:44states to that's another kind of lawyer but the point is so he
- 17:48always wanted to be a lawyer. So then if he says that he's a
- 17:50good husband for being a lawyer and having a lawyer salary that
- 17:54called bullshit, has that being a good husband?
- 17:56Yeah, you make money. You would also make money if you
- 17:58divorce or if she dropped dead you would still be a lawyer, you
- 18:02know, the same thing with a doctor.
- 18:04With any of these occupations, if there's a man that didn't
- 18:08work ever, and then he met his wife and decided to work at all.
- 18:14I've not met this person. I don't know how they would
- 18:16support themselves prior, you know?
- 18:18And there are some men I assume in the world, I don't know them
- 18:22who get a second job to only support the woman's clothes
- 18:25shopping habit. That sounds more like a
- 18:26caricature than anything else, but if these men exist, then
- 18:29certainly for them working is an exemplification of love, but for
- 18:34any Man, that would be working otherwise, the sun making you a
- 18:36good husband. You would do that shit.
- 18:38If you got divorced to, you'd still be working.
- 18:40So the point is like that could make you viable on The Dating
- 18:45Market because you have like a higher income but it doesn't
- 18:49mean that you're doing it for a woman that you didn't even meet
- 18:52yet, you know? And it's the same thing for
- 18:55women. You got to understand, are there
- 18:56things? You would be doing it anyway,
- 18:58even if your spouse didn't exist, well then you cannot
- 19:01double-dip and say that there's something that you're doing.
- 19:04For the spouse. So with the same for both
- 19:06genders, you cannot take something that you would be
- 19:08doing even if they drop dead or if they divorced you and then
- 19:13say that it's for them. You could say, it makes their
- 19:16life easier. But that is is secondary to the
- 19:20fact that you would be doing it anyway.
- 19:22So you can basically say I'm a good person to have in your
- 19:25life. I'm a pretty good roommate, but
- 19:28even in those cases, sometimes in fact, the things of the woman
- 19:31is doing that, she's saying make her a good wife actually make
- 19:34Her a worse wife and in the Man's eyes are worse mother and
- 19:37that's the interesting part. It's a lot of things are very
- 19:40rigid. Things have to go a certain way
- 19:42and like holidays or a huge Fiasco every year where she's
- 19:46like crying and she's exhausted and she just hit 25 different
- 19:49gifts. For each of the kids in every
- 19:51year, he's like, why do we have to do this?
- 19:53Let's let's just not do this so much and get the kids.
- 19:56Each it, one gift or two gifts and we're good, we're good.
- 19:58We don't have to get for extended family.
- 20:00Don't have to decorate the house like this, it's fine.
- 20:03And instead, He's pushing and pushing to do it.
- 20:05He acts that actually makes her a worse wife and then insult to
- 20:09injury. And even he feels the worst
- 20:11mother. Because of course, she's
- 20:12snapping at the kids in the interim and she's exhausted and
- 20:15then to have that thrown back in couples counseling.
- 20:17Is this is why I'm a good wife, because I make holiday so good.
- 20:20He doesn't think they're so good.
- 20:22He thinks that it's a, an artifact of anxiety.
- 20:24In fact. And for again, for men, anxious
- 20:27is like the worst, you know, because then prioritize being on
- 20:31constricted, feeling free, and feeling like, Like, you know,
- 20:36happy and like kind of an approach motivation.
- 20:40We call it versus an avoidance motivation.
- 20:42So, ideally healthy men, go into the world with an approach
- 20:47motivation. Oh, there's something over
- 20:48there. That's interesting.
- 20:49I'm going to go. Look at it.
- 20:51Oh, that's a problem. Maybe I'll try to solve it.
- 20:53Oh, that's a place. Maybe I would go visit it, you
- 20:56know? And so then when they are
- 20:57constructed from doing anything like that, because of the
- 21:00woman's fear of danger, AKA anxiety or rigidity.
- 21:04Then they feel in fact worse and they don't like their lives and
- 21:07they don't like their children being raised that way.
- 21:09So this is how the excessive planning and, you know,
- 21:13scheduling and all of this actually.
- 21:16It's not even just a neutral. In fact, many men think this
- 21:20makes the woman a worse wife and mother so it's even worse than
- 21:24that. It would be like the situation
- 21:26where a man says oh and of course I don't have time to be
- 21:30romantic or clothes because I work all the time.
- 21:31I have such a good salary so she should be so happy.
- 21:34Happy. I'm such a good provider.
- 21:35That makes me a good husband. And in fact, she's like, I've
- 21:37been begging you to take a different job by begging.
- 21:39You, we could do with much less money.
- 21:41Please get a different job. You know, I could go back to
- 21:45work, whatever it is and I want to have you around more.
- 21:48So in that situation, which is common, women are begging.
- 21:53The guy to not be a workaholic and instead he's gone all the
- 21:56time and insult to injury salt in the wound.
- 21:59He says, as though he hasn't heard any of her complaints
- 22:01about it. Oh, this makes me in.
- 22:04To good husband. No, it doesn't.
- 22:06It doesn't make you a good husband in her mind or a good
- 22:08father because although the children do have money they
- 22:10don't have them around. So that's how men feel about a
- 22:13very anxious, and constricted and regimented and overplay and,
- 22:18you know, parenting modality that their wife gets into.
- 22:22All right. Well I hope that this one opened
- 22:24up your eyes. This was a little longer than I
- 22:25usually do because I had a lot to say on the topic and it would
- 22:29be one that could you know, lead to a lot of self-awareness if
- 22:33you can listen. Anand offensively to it.
- 22:35And really, as it spoke about most both genders, it can lead
- 22:39to self awareness and really anybody listening.
- 22:41All right, guys, have a great day and I'll talk to you soon.