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My Wife Caught Me Doing Coke : Sober, But Still Struggling: The Part Recovery Podcasts Skip · Recovering Out Loud

0:01
Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the
0:04
show where we get real about mental health and addiction.
0:08
If you or someone you love is struggling, please reach out to
0:11
me on any social media platform. At Recovering Out Loud Pod, you
0:16
are no longer alone. It's OK, We meet some of the
0:35
most interesting people in the world, right?
0:38
Oh, yeah. I love this recovery thing.
0:39
I've, Oh yeah. You know, forget all the stories
0:42
and the, the, the stuff, the, the, the, the shock factor,
0:46
right? The wow factor.
0:47
Forget all. That, yeah, the, the how low was
0:49
your low kind of stuff, yeah. You know, I fucking rolled down
0:53
a hill naked and, you know, took out six old people and, and
0:56
everyone was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can.
0:59
Yeah, and then you, then someone and then there'll be someone who
1:01
like robbed a bank and you're like, OK, you win.
1:06
So tell me about the pod. Tell me about the the focus of
1:11
the conversations you're trying to have.
1:12
What is this project? Great question.
1:16
So I'll tell you why when I started it, what the kind of
1:18
goal was and I'm trying to stay with that notion.
1:21
I originally started this in my last treatment center.
1:23
The reason I haven't seen you for a while, because I've been
1:25
doing some more research last year.
1:28
I've actually I'm coming up fucking 344 days of getting a
1:33
year again. Oh fuck yeah, dude, fuck yeah,
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dude. Like I thought you were going to
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say I've got four days. Like, hey, that's a lot of time.
1:40
That's like a year. Way to go.
1:43
I'm surprised you're doing this right now.
1:44
Four days. OK, Yeah, I'm surprised you
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could put a sentence together. One.
1:47
What about step one? Maybe.
1:50
Yeah, maybe. So you did treatment up north?
1:53
Is this the one you're talking? About yeah, when when I went to
1:55
in January of last year, yes, hit another rock bottom.
1:58
But I was doing some more research.
1:59
That's why I hadn't seen a lot of people for a while Don't
2:02
recommend it, you know, don't recommend it at all.
2:04
But. You still want to live healthy.
2:05
You still want to like you? You did some research and you've
2:08
decided I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick with healthy.
2:11
Yeah. This side's better.
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I'm gonna stick with Alive too. Like seriously like.
2:16
There was no going back. From that a lot of people, and
2:18
I'm sure you can relate to this, shook hands with the devil near
2:22
death. You know, if I don't know if I
2:23
have one more relapse in me, sorry, I don't know if I know I
2:28
have one relapse in me. I don't know if I have another
2:30
recovery and and I love that it's it's so true.
2:33
So in in treatment this past time and I'm like, I love
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podcasts, I love talking to people.
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I'm gonna do this thing right? I didn't realize too is like,
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and not that it's a competition at all, but when I started doing
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it, I got into this. There's lots of silver pot
2:46
recovery podcasts out there and and it's amazing.
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It's amazing. I just didn't I didn't realize
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how many there were, but when I first thought of it, I was like,
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well, this is a great idea. Like no one's thought of this,
2:56
right? No, dude, like there's a lot of
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people you look up Birdhouse making podcasts.
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There's like a million of them. Like it's a it's a great medium.
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I have a podcast. Oh yeah, I'm.
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So it's a, it's a men's group, men's like.
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And So what it's like, my partner calls it like a men's
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excellence group or a men's success group.
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But really what it turns out is there's guys in the US who are
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maybe obese or they don't know how to meet girls or they're
3:26
broke or they're just smoking pot all day and playing video
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games. And Wes and I, we, we, we meet
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with them every week and we talk about goals, we talk about
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healthy living. I, I share my story with
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addiction and recovery like at least once per conversation, you
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know, And so I love the medium of podcast and I, I get so much
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out of the conversations like like an, A, a meeting, like a 12
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step meeting, you know, when you don't feel like doing it and
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you'd show up, you, you always come away feeling better.
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Yeah. So I love, I love the medium.
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And also because recovery is such a voice to voice, person to
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person journey, right? Like reading a book, like your,
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your sponsor doesn't tell you to, to text people.
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He tells you to call somebody everyday, right.
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And and so, yeah, thank you for having me.
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Which is a lot harder. Yeah.
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Oh yeah. I I appreciate you coming down
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and yeah, so just to finish my thought there, like it's that's
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amazing. I didn't know that there's, it's
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an easy way to access, you know, information that you can feel
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sort of more personal, right? What I've noticed with
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podcasting that I like podcasters that I like or
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podcasts that I like. It's not the actual I was
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thinking about this the other day.
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I I spend a lot of time thinking about this, but it's I think I I
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actually start to like the person.
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Of course, right. You you start to like Chris
5:00
Williamson is a is an exam. I don't know if you know modern
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wisdom. Nope, I'm a huge fan.
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I'm obsessed. With it, I'm more into Birdhouse
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making podcasts, like I said. But he's your he's You're locked
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in with him. I'm gonna go look that up now
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after this. But it's, it's him that I like,
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you know, it's, it's his thought patterns that I, that I identify
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with. He's working on himself.
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His, his humor is the same as mine.
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And so he also happens to get really interesting guests on.
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But when I listen, I'm and he talks, I'm just like, Oh yeah,
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fuck. Like I, I think like, I hadn't
5:32
thought about it that way, right.
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And I think it, it's, you know, that's how we're drawn in
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recovery too. I think to, to, we kind of stick
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with people that, yeah, we, we see ourselves in them or they
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say things that we're too scared to say sometimes or they say
5:44
things that we're feeling, which is that's recovery, right?
5:47
What I didn't know. What do you mean?
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Like I'm not alone in that. I didn't know that I other
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people stayed up for days and saw things and, you know,
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psychosis and couldn't stop whatever the thing might be.
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That's just off the top of my head right now 'cause I since
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realized that a lot of people didn't realize that other people
6:05
also experienced that, right? Because you think you're crazy
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right when you're coming in. And you're so embarrassed about
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what you did and the shame the. Shame.
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And that's one of the pillars of the program again, is that you
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get to hear people say, I did the same thing or worse.
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I also never wanted to tell anyone.
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I wanted to bring bring that secret to my grave and by
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telling and releasing that kind of burden, you know, the life is
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so much better on the other side of that.
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That's one of the major like inflection points, turning
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points in recovery that we go through.
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Yeah, it opens the door for Yeah, What else can I be honest
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about? And I'll tell you in a high
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level way, 'cause I, I talk about it a lot on here, but my
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relapse was keeping those those things inside.
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That is like high level, full stop.
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I tell everybody all, every day. That was the recipe that made
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the relapse possible. Started with one little.
7:04
Lie or secret or I'm. Just going to I'm going to
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handle this over here guys. You know Tim, our friend Tim
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from Tuesday always says he and he said this to me before I
7:15
relapse. I'll never forget it.
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I wish I listened, but you know, hindsight 2020, right, but it
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stuck with me is we went for coffee one day and he sits down
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and he goes Anthony. He could tell I was starting to
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you know, I think I had already relapse at that point.
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Make sure one person in the world knows everything.
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One person and I love that right and not like as great as talking
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to God is and spirituality and you have to bounce things off of
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other people. You have to and and that's not,
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it's true, like one person make sure they know every single
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idea, secret plan. You know, for me, it was like
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I'm going to get back into steroids and fix my ADHD.
7:55
And then it spiraled down there. But that's what I tell people
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all the time. And I today I realized that I
8:01
have an experience that people in recovery might need to hear
8:05
with long term recovery, right, because I never thought I could.
8:08
I never thought I would relapse. Right.
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And then another thing we never think is that we'll be on the
8:14
giving end of wisdom in this thing because we come in so
8:18
desperate and multiple relapses and we think we're just here to
8:22
get medicated. But it's it's a magical program
8:28
in that we get to give back or give giving back is is one of
8:32
the foundational ideas of it. Giving it away, we call it.
8:35
But yeah, it's not hard for you to be like A to, to, to show, to
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light the path of recovery for people.
8:44
Yeah, it's a good point, though. You do come in, you're like, I'm
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not going to, how can I help anybody?
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I don't have anything. And I mean at first.
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I'm a bum. I'm a lot.
8:50
Of people would agree with that, you don't really have much to
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offer at first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just.
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Just listen for. That yeah, listening and then
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and then, but that. But that's also a skill.
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Like what I love about 12 Step is that now that I don't have
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the urge to drink every single day, I get to reflect on my
9:08
other flaws or attributes. And yeah, learning to listen,
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that's a skill that I get to practice in a a It's just one of
9:20
the being an adult skills that I get to practice being nice, not
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dumping all my drama on somebody else.
9:28
Cleaning up, turning off the lights when you leave the room.
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Like showing up on time. Like showing up on time.
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I don't know if you know anyone in active addiction who is
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really good at showing up on time and stuff, No.
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Doesn't go hand in. Hand no.
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So that and so that is like a a kind of normal grown up behavior
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that we get to practice in a recovery and that is a non
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alcohol or drug benefit of recovery that kind of like
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ripples into our broader life. The the thing about listening to
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is ever since I started this podcast, God that that's a skill
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that you have to sharpen too, right?
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And I agree 100%. It's it's not listening to talk
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either. It's listening to actually take
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in that information like. The difference between hearing
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and listening or whatever. Love that.
10:13
Love that hearing and listening is like actually listening,
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feeling what they're they're feeling or interpreting what
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they're saying. It's a beautiful thing, man.
10:21
So why don't we, let's do this. I usually get people to tell
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sort of a little bit about their, their story, I guess from
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a high level, like how did you, you know what, what brought you
10:33
to your knees the moment? What did alcohol and drugs do
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for you? How did you get to that moment
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of this is enough waved the white flag and then what stuck?
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How did your recovery stick after that?
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Well, drinking and partying was part of my strong personal brand
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since I was like 13 years old. I was so insecure.
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And you know how like guys like you and I like we are walking
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white privilege, male, Christian, heterosexual, able
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bodied, you know, and, and yet we think we're skinny or ugly or
11:09
losers or not good enough, right?
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I don't know how we get programmed with these ideas, but
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then when we start drinking and we can be the life of the party
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or we can be the wildest person in the room, that gives us a
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kind of like some armor against those feelings, right?
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So I was the life of the party. I'm a fun, kind, loving guy and
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mostly when I was drunk, that would be kind of heightened.
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You know how some people get really dark when they drink or,
11:37
or or violent or angry. That wasn't me 90% of the time.
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And but it was becoming a problem like wasn't able to hold
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down work. Wasn't I was and I, you know,
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got married and it was clear to my girlfriend and then wife that
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I was drinking too much. I was drinking faster than
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everyone else and before everyone else and later than
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everyone else, right. And so at some point I, I
12:03
remember it as like at some point you said, Hey, you could
12:06
either keep drinking or you can keep being married.
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And so I, I picked keep being married.
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And so I was able to stop drinking.
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And I don't think it's not like I never took a drink from that
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day on, but I think I had taken breaks from drinking for weeks
12:25
or months at a time. But that was about 11 years ago.
12:30
And I told myself that I don't have a brake pedal when it comes
12:33
to alcohol. I can accelerate, I can drink
12:35
more, but I can't slow down and stop.
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So I but I also told myself, so that was wise.
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But I also told myself I have a brake pedal when it comes to
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everything else. So I could leave pot or coke in
12:48
the like shoe box in the closet and maybe do it once a month,
12:52
you know, but you know how this movie ends.
12:56
Like eventually my need to escape my fear and insecurity
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that I was medicating with alcohol, I found something else
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to medicate it. I didn't address that and I just
13:06
found something else to medicate it.
13:07
So I became so like from doing cocaine at bars and nightclubs,
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I ended up doing it every day from morning till night and just
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a mess of shame, right? Like I would.
13:21
And it's there's something about that drug in particular that's
13:23
like, why do I do this? I don't want to do this 5
13:26
minutes later. You do it like the craving is so
13:28
strong, right? So the difference between
13:30
alcohol and cocaine for me is that I knew I wanted to stop
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with cocaine and that I could not stop.
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Whereas with alcohol I wanted to stop.
13:38
And so I stopped, right? But I mean, I was in a spiral of
13:41
years telling myself, OK, tomorrow I'm going to do half a
13:45
gram, the next day, 1/4 gram, by the day three I'm going to be
13:47
totally done. Or, you know, and I carried
13:51
around like a secret, stole money or kind of like hid money
13:55
or whatever to to fund my habit, stole jewelry from my wife,
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stole jewelry from my mom and, and I'm OK, I'm at peace with
14:05
that now. Stole, like stole money from my
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dad's wallet when he was getting cancer treatments and have been
14:14
able to make amends and apologize for that, which is a
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really hardest slash best part of 12 step.
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So that's my that's, I think that's the most important part
14:29
for today, which is with alcohol.
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I, I, I, when I wanted to quit, I could with cocaine when I
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wanted to, I could not stop. I had to get caught.
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I had to get threatened with divorce.
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I had to get on an A Narcotics Anonymous meeting right away.
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My wife marched me down to my doctor.
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He's like, let's have a holistic approach where you go to a A and
14:54
you go to some addictions Dr. and you go to your therapist and
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see like what your what medication you're not doing
15:04
correctly. The holistic approach that was
15:07
required when it came time to getting fully clean from alcohol
15:12
and drugs. What Yeah, you mentioned, I
15:16
think we're a lot alike in that sense where, you know, alcohol
15:19
was never really. I call myself an alcoholic today
15:22
because. And so that's what I want to get
15:24
your opinion on that when you hear somebody come in.
15:27
Because I was like you, I I could kind of put alcohol down.
15:29
It was always there, but I never burned the house down with
15:33
alcohol. I never got threatened divorce
15:35
or my same thing you. Weren't a bum in the gutter one
15:38
of those kind of cliches? Like it was just, it was cocaine
15:40
that was the thing that I couldn't see myself living
15:43
without. And all stimulants, really.
15:44
And by the end of it, like last relapse, it was meth.
15:47
The fake Adderall pills. That was my, my real.
15:50
I'm familiar. Yeah.
15:51
That took me down because there was.
15:53
Yeah. Anyways, so when you, when you
15:55
hear someone come in, because I'm sure you do, and they say,
15:57
yeah, you know, I got the drug thing under control, alcohol.
16:01
I'm not really an alcoholic. Like, what was the turning point
16:04
for you to make that distinction?
16:05
I am an alcoholic as well as an addict.
16:08
Well, I mean, I don't know if this is answering your question,
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but I remember having been alcohol free five years and
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getting a job in Toronto. Now, like, like we discussed on
16:23
the way down here, I'm a creative so I sell art for a
16:26
living. And this was the first time.
16:28
And so now being a independent like freelance art dealer is
16:35
like the easiest way to just drink and drug all, all the time
16:38
and, and not be accountable to anyone, right?
16:41
So when I finally got a job at a retail store selling art in
16:44
Toronto, not drinking alcohol is one of like the, the great kind
16:51
of like qualities and upsides of hiring me, right?
16:56
Never hungover, etcetera. And and so and I would, you
17:00
know, celebrate with Coke occasionally.
17:03
But what I discovered is that my insecurity expressed itself
17:07
particularly with me was the stress of working all day.
17:10
I would start, I started cooking on the weekdays and then I got
17:15
to the point where I coked from the moment I got home from work
17:20
because I was afraid of what I had done that day and I was
17:24
afraid that I was going to get fired tomorrow.
17:26
So it like, in other words, like I was afraid I did something
17:28
fireable today. In the past, we can't control
17:31
the past and I was afraid that I was going to get fired tomorrow
17:34
in the future. We can't control the future.
17:36
And so in the present, I would just spent it medicating this
17:40
fear with coke. And so when I because alcohol is
17:46
so permissive in our culture, people can go to the pub every
17:49
day and still and not be called a problem drinker in in like the
17:53
wider culture to most people. But if you're doing coke, like,
17:59
you know, like Monday, Wednesday, Tuesday, Friday, all
18:03
day Saturday, all day Sunday, right, like from the moment,
18:06
like if from the like at 5 O1, the moment you're done work
18:08
every day, that is not socially acceptable.
18:12
We don't have commercials on TV about that.
18:13
We don't like, you know, there aren't Bud Light commercials
18:15
about that. I knew something was wrong, but
18:20
again, like there's something about addiction or the kind of
18:23
people who are wired for addiction that asking for help
18:30
was not an option, right? Stop and stopping was
18:34
impossible. So there were times when I did
18:38
coke at work and then when after I got fired, I, you know, the,
18:46
the, the starting line for when I would start got like earlier
18:52
and earlier, right? And it like, and so like, I
18:54
remember it was the World Cup of soccer.
18:56
I believe it was the one that was hosted in Russia.
18:58
And so my brother and I, we were watching a like Russia
19:02
broadcast, right? So it would have been noon
19:04
Toronto time. And I was like, you know, look,
19:08
you know, it's too early to start doing coke.
19:10
And he's like, no, take it out. So I remember that was like,
19:15
yeah, that was the first time it ever done before noon.
19:18
And yeah, so with Coke, it was just a lot easier for me to
19:23
compare myself to the broader culture and say this is not
19:27
normal. Yeah.
19:29
So then was it hard for you to like to quit drinking then all
19:33
together after you got the quote the Coke settled or?
19:36
No. So I just to correct the record,
19:39
I quit drinking 10 years ago, 11 years ago and I did a Coke
19:45
alcohol free wow for all that time.
19:48
Yeah, that's OK. That's that's not that's not
19:52
typical. Correct, Right, Yeah, Although
19:54
although I mean I do find I've found similar people in in
19:59
recovery and also at the end of my journey I was.
20:10
Doing whatever I can get my hands on.
20:11
Except alcohol. For some reason I was such a
20:14
snob about alcohol. I don't drink.
20:17
Ray does not drink. So meanwhile, but I was doing
20:21
coke. Yeah, any time I was in front of
20:23
someone's master cabinet. You're doing coke to watch
20:25
soccer, which I could also. I can relate to that.
20:28
And don't tell me I'm the only person who does that, you know?
20:35
And so, and then at at the end of it, I'd be like smoking weed
20:40
and, and just trying whatever's in your medicine cabinet or
20:43
grandma's medicine cabinet. So, yeah, so I know for sure now
20:49
that I was trying to numb out, I was trying to run away.
20:54
I was trying to escape. And I have to.
20:58
And in order for me to live healthy, it's not a prison
21:02
sentence. In order for me to live a
21:04
complete life, I have to set aside anything that's a form of
21:11
unhealthy escape. Yeah, you, you, you said it
21:14
really well. It's yes, Sir.
21:17
I'm, I'm always living in yesterday or tomorrow, right?
21:19
And the present moment for for an addict, but for me especially
21:23
I I can only speak for myself is so unbearable that I need
21:29
outside things to, to escape it to, to to disappear right.
21:33
So you come in, what was the moment like where you, you're,
21:37
you know, you're last drunk or your last 30 days, I guess in,
21:41
in addiction, I mean, you, you sort of described it, but what
21:43
was the moment that finally got you over to the side of
21:46
sobriety? Well the actual mechanics of the
21:51
last moment it was very like 3 stooges.
21:55
OK so my wife and I are arguing it was something and the cat
22:00
runs across the table and knocks over like a glass and breaks on
22:06
the floor and my wife picks up with a piece of glass and cuts
22:10
her finger. She's like God damn it and I'm
22:12
like and so I'm like God damn it cat and I take my phone and I
22:15
throw it at the cat. It hits the ground and the the
22:19
the protective case of the iPhone pops off and right in
22:22
there was where I used to keep my little Baggies of coke.
22:26
So the baggie flies out in front of my wife and she was like, I
22:29
knew it. I knew you, that you there was
22:32
something off with you because I had I had been confronted by her
22:37
friends a year before and urged to quit.
22:42
And I had quit for two weeks. I managed to quit for two weeks.
22:47
And like I have so much compassion for people who are at
22:50
the beginning of their journey now, because I remember when I
22:53
tried to quit that 12 months before, how hard the first
22:59
impossible the first minute was, how hard the first hour was,
23:04
what a challenge first day was and how I white knuckled the
23:08
first week and but then the second week's easier and it's
23:11
and our emotions will go up and down.
23:13
But really, when you are in withdrawal from man, one of the
23:18
most powerful substances God ever created, like it is the
23:22
heroic phase of the recovery. That's what I call it.
23:26
Yeah. So that's after promising I quit
23:31
really only lasting 2 weeks and then going back to cooking every
23:34
day for the next 365 -, 14, which is, you know, whatever it
23:40
is, 351 days. That is what happened when I
23:46
finally got caught and it's and like I said for that last year
23:50
after my wife and her friends kind of confronted me and asked
23:54
me to quit that last year. I wanted to but could not.
23:59
So I was relieved when she found me, when I got caught, all that
24:03
lying, when I got caught, for all that lying, because I was
24:07
carrying an unbearable weight of shame and like I was a prisoner
24:11
to the drug. I can relate to that so much.
24:14
I mean, and you said that off the top too, is like I need to
24:16
get caught to to make change because like it's hard to ask
24:20
for help. I find too.
24:22
And so if I look back on, you know, a lot of my moments, even
24:25
even when I was 23 and when I first went to rehab, it was
24:29
getting caught, you know, by my parents or by my friends and my
24:32
friend telling my parents, Hey, this is you might want to look
24:35
at this like he's worse than all of us, you know, and he's he's
24:39
using everyday same thing, right.
24:40
And it was the cocaine that brought me down.
24:43
But yeah, I have to be brought to my knees and I have to be
24:45
embarrassed. And but I like what you said,
24:47
too. Is that unbearable weight right
24:49
where it's like you finally admit to something or or you get
24:52
caught and it's like, I don't have to lie about this anymore?
24:55
I'm not on the run anymore. Spinning a story and a web of
25:00
stories and. Keeping everyone.
25:02
Yeah. Lying becomes the only thing we
25:05
do where it's other than quickly remembering what the last lie we
25:11
told the person. You know, all we do is spin lies
25:13
and we lie for no reason. We lie when we're crossing the
25:17
border. We'll lie.
25:19
We'll rely when we're having a random conversation with the
25:21
grocery, you know, bagger and like, Yeah, like.
25:27
Why do you think that is 'cause I I know I I can relate to it
25:30
too. Gosh man, that's a deep one.
25:33
We drink and drug to nurse and insecurity or shame or fear.
25:42
And I suppose when we are high or drunk, we don't feel like
25:48
ourselves. We don't have that terrible
25:51
curse of feeling like ourselves. We get to like we get to kind of
25:54
feel like somebody else. And on Halloween when we're in a
25:58
costume, we get to kind of we're kind of liberated when we're in
26:01
a costume Halloween, we get to act how we want because none of
26:05
our reputational baggage comes with us.
26:07
And I, so I think as an addict, we maybe we lie because we're
26:14
not good enough. You know, you're not you.
26:18
My story's not good enough to tell you what's really going on.
26:21
I'm not good enough to actually be with you.
26:25
So I lie in order to, to be wanted.
26:29
That's just what came to my mind, right?
26:30
There. Interesting.
26:31
Yeah, no, I, I, I just, I always find it interesting because when
26:36
you said lying about things that don't really matter or stupid
26:38
shit, it's like, yeah, I do that too.
26:40
And I've, I spend a lot of time reflecting, you know, I think
26:43
recovery in its in of a in of, of itself is self searching
26:49
journey. You, you know, why do I do
26:52
things this interest, introspective journey, self
26:55
searching, self appraisal, honest self appraisal, like,
27:00
hey, why am I, why really, why am I doing that?
27:02
Why does this thought keep coming up?
27:05
And I guess for me, it's I, I, I never thought about it that way.
27:08
It's like maybe my version of the true or the truth itself
27:13
isn't good enough. I don't.
27:15
I want you to like. It's one part of it now that now
27:19
having said that, first of all, I know you, like you said, like
27:23
you grew up thinking you were ugly.
27:26
Did you not say that it was more so body dysmorphia?
27:29
Body dysmorphia, which is retarded because you won the
27:32
genetic lottery, obviously, and so did I, right?
27:36
And then another kind of lying that I became a champion at is
27:43
and given the reflection we do, I've learned to figure it out is
27:47
in a a we learned that promising or apologizing for something
27:53
with no intention or ability to change is a kind of a lying or
27:58
it's a kind of dishonesty. You get caught stealing.
28:01
And that's the difference between apologizing and making
28:04
amends. You get caught drinking, you
28:06
apologize 'cause you're hungover and you're embarrassed.
28:10
You and you want that feeling to just go away, to stop that
28:13
embarrassment, that shame. So that embarrassment, that
28:15
fear, and so like, why do we lie when we get pulled over?
28:19
Because we, we're trying to just get out of the jam as quickly as
28:23
possible, right? It's kind of an emergency.
28:25
Deflect attention. Yeah, it's an emergency
28:27
response. And so there's something about
28:31
when we're in act of addiction that, you know, everything is an
28:34
emergency response. You're you could get caught at
28:37
any moment, right. So the lie is just the easiest
28:40
way to think of what's the fastest way to diffuse the
28:47
situation and then do that. Or deflect.
28:49
It's like, it's like I'm holding off like a shield and I'm just
28:51
like, yeah, back to you. Give the attention back to you,
28:54
right? Yeah.
28:55
No, it's, it's 100% true. I think, you know, I was always
29:00
taught to, to by a therapist that I had that whenever I told
29:04
those little white lies to like at some point go back and be
29:07
like, hey, you know, I, I lied there, you know, I just laughed,
29:12
but. Remember that thing where it
29:14
wasn't necessarily a lie? I I lied there.
29:17
Yeah, and I told you I only had 6 parking tickets in my life,
29:21
right? I've actually had ten.
29:22
It was like, I think a lot of. And that's not a deal breaker, I
29:25
know, but it's for some reason, for some reason it's that is we
29:31
reach for that button first like it feels safe to reach for that
29:36
button. I think a lot of the time too,
29:40
is like, I want you to for me, It's it, it what comes to my
29:45
mind when I think of why do we lie?
29:46
At least right now 'cause I think it does change and it's
29:49
different for everybody. Is people pleasing.
29:52
You know, I, I just, I don't think you're gonna like the
29:54
story as much as unless I finesse it a little bit or mold
29:59
it into what I think you want me to be, right?
30:03
What I, what I, what I, what I want to be, or what I think I
30:07
want you to me me to be. Right, you stopped making sense
30:11
a little while ago, but something.
30:13
I do. Where are we again?
30:14
That's. Something I do that's just like
30:16
that is right now. So I'm not lying about whether
30:19
I'm high or not, and I'm not lying pathologically like I used
30:24
to in active addiction. But I find myself double booking
30:27
myself and even triple booking myself sometimes.
30:32
And if I think about my whole life, it's because I was afraid
30:35
to disappoint the person by saying no, you know?
30:39
Yeah, you. That that that people pleasing I
30:41
can. I'm happy you brought that up
30:43
because one of my questions was going to be, and this is the
30:45
shit I really like talking about.
30:47
It's like, what are you struggling with today?
30:49
One of the things, and I got reminded of this the other day
30:52
at at a recovery space that I was at.
30:55
Guy had a long time in in recovery told the story.
30:58
Great message. And this happens quite a bit.
31:02
Not that there's anything wrong with it, because I think that
31:04
message is important for people to hear.
31:06
I was fucked up, I got, I did things this way, I followed
31:10
direction. Now I'm not as fucked up.
31:13
Where at my problem is like, I want to hear what you're fucking
31:17
struggling with, man. Today, yesterday, I want to hear
31:21
about the fucking taxi driver. You just told the fuck off and
31:25
you know, beat up or cut off or give me something real.
31:29
Give me something because that's what I need to hear, man.
31:32
Like I, I don't need to hear how great recovery is because it,
31:35
it, it can be great. Absolutely.
31:38
Today for me, it's great. It's not perfect.
31:40
It never is. I want to hear about what you're
31:42
struggling with. So you don't You mentioned this
31:45
double booking thing and like not being able to say no, right?
31:49
How how are you working on that? And I guess what else are you
31:53
sort of struggling with off off that topic?
31:55
Bro, I was like on a FaceTime call with my girlfriend walking
32:02
up Bathurst when you texted me like 5 minutes before our
32:07
scheduled time and you were like this parking in the back and I
32:11
was like, Oh my God. I mean because I, we, I, we had.
32:15
We had, we were just so everyone knows, Bathurst is not near
32:18
here. So thank God you.
32:21
Forgot. That's amazing.
32:22
I was like, yo, traffic is tough 10 minutes away or whatever.
32:25
You got here fast, dude. Yeah.
32:27
Dude, it was like I but I was lucky I activated the no no, I
32:34
so undisciplined behavior I struggle with.
32:40
I'm trying to lose some weight for travel, not that I need to.
32:43
For those of you just listening, I've got, you know, rock solid 6
32:47
pack. But undisciplined eating,
32:53
undisciplined behavior is hard for me.
32:57
I can't have the Uber app on my phone or else I'll just Uber.
33:01
Uber Eats, Yeah. Yeah, I won't.
33:02
No Uber Eats and the Uber transportation.
33:04
Where do you go? Well, I I should be driving my
33:08
car or taking the streetcar or walking.
33:09
And you'd rather Uber? No, I don't have the Uber app
33:12
for that reason. OK, OK.
33:14
OK. So just to just to like kind of
33:19
dial it back a few minutes, I'm not perfect.
33:22
OK. And so there's a, for you, it
33:25
might be Uber Eats where you might have a fridge full of
33:27
leafy greens, but you're just going to Uber Eats junk food.
33:30
I can relate to that too. Not only is McDonald's
33:35
unhealthy, but to just lie in bed and have someone else bring
33:39
it to your front door is doubly unhealthy.
33:41
So it really is. It was the Uber Eats and the
33:44
Uber anyway. So I don't have any, I don't
33:46
have the app at all. And I was able to turn it on
33:50
today to get here quickly. OK, I see what you're.
33:53
Saying guys, what I struggle with today is that I don't have
33:58
as much money as I want. I don't have a career that I
34:00
want. I'm doing a lot of, I wouldn't
34:05
call them odd jobs, but I do, I do a lot of kind of, I do a lot
34:09
of informal work and I'm able to put together financial stability
34:15
for myself, which is a huge first step.
34:18
But yeah, like I've, I've got a nice old vintage car.
34:22
I got no business driving. I should be like, like it's in
34:26
the shop. I don't know how I'm going to
34:28
pay for that. I'm riding the TDC these days.
34:31
And when the TDC is early and I jump on there and I'm like Jason
34:38
Bourne cutting through the city, I'm very happy.
34:41
When it's late or I miss it, I really struggle with emotional
34:48
balance, you know, so, so screaming and obscenity at the
34:53
top of my lungs, not at at somebody, but just at the world,
34:58
you know? Yeah.
35:02
And so that is something that I'm I'm currently struggling
35:06
with on almost a daily basis is keeping my sanity on public
35:12
transit. And I think it's linked to this
35:14
idea of powerlessness and control or lack of control that
35:17
comes up over and over again in recovery where when I have a
35:21
vehicle, I'm in control of when I enter it and don't.
35:25
Not so with the bus, even though just navigating the city in a
35:30
car, you are also at the mercy of, however, the traffic.
35:33
Is construction. Yeah, so I found that.
35:36
I don't know how practical it is, but if I need, if I give
35:39
myself an hour to get somewhere, no matter where I'm going, I
35:42
don't drive dangerously, I drive slow, and I'm not offended if I
35:46
have to go around somebody or or merge because of construction.
35:50
It it changes the whole complexion outlook on your day,
35:54
like when you when you afford yourself enough time.
35:57
I had a counselor at that rehab that I was just talking about
36:00
always mention that he goes every time I go anywhere ever I
36:03
I purposely leave 15 minutes of a security gap of a a buffer.
36:08
I'm not there yet. Right, I know neither am I It's
36:10
he's a spiritual giant. That's guru.
36:12
He's not an addict himself. He's like a genius, that guy.
36:16
And but it's true. He's like I'm I'm, I'm
36:18
everywhere I go. I'm 15 minutes early because
36:21
I've spent so much time being late or and at the mercy of
36:25
whatever happens on the four one or the 400.
36:28
And you know, it's interesting too, because I think this
36:31
illusion of control is what kind of everybody in in addiction, at
36:35
least myself, strives for. Like I, if I could just turn the
36:41
dial a little bit towards my direction, if you would just do
36:44
things the way I want you to do them, right?
36:46
Like Ray, did you not get the script right?
36:49
That I from for life that I, you know what I mean?
36:51
It's you're. Anthony's world.
36:53
We're we're living Anthony's. World and I think a lot of
36:55
people when they come in can relate to that even in without
36:58
you know in recovery without substances because you you come
37:02
in here and you're so used to this illusory freedom this
37:05
control that we have. I don't like this thought I'm
37:08
going to do a line. You know what?
37:09
What do you mean of I know how to fix this?
37:12
Boom. And it does.
37:12
That's the problem with drugs is that they work.
37:14
What do you call like eject? Yeah, I love that.
37:18
It's almost a a chemical eject button.
37:20
I this is uncomfortable. I'm going to fucking get out of
37:23
here. And but The thing is, Anthony,
37:25
that we we become dependent on that eject button so that the
37:33
littlest thing, the most minor inconvenience will have us
37:37
ejecting. And it gets to the point where
37:40
nothing at all can be going wrong and we're ejecting.
37:42
Yeah, right. Which this isn't life.
37:44
It's not. No, it's not.
37:45
It's not sustainable. No, it's not and it's it's also,
37:48
it's not. It's obviously it's not healthy,
37:52
but it's but it's also becomes not even enjoyable for the
37:56
person who's doing it right. I'm sure you weren't loving
38:02
every second of the your your rock bottom.
38:05
No, you're a prisoner of it. Right, that's the best way to
38:08
put it. And it's so that's why I always
38:11
think cravings are hilarious, right?
38:12
It's I laugh at them every single time once I get through
38:16
them and whatever. I mean, as of today, it's much
38:20
more few and far between. But my first, I would say three
38:24
months for sure, like coming back again, right?
38:26
Because you know, I had seven years before that you saw me
38:29
when I came in and relapsed, right?
38:31
You were at that place like that group where I broke down in
38:34
front of everybody. It had been a while since I had
38:38
had like early recovery, really, right, Like early sustained
38:41
recovery because I was coming in and out for a while.
38:43
Anyways, that first three months I would say, and I tell people
38:47
this openly is I was living at a sober house, thank God, and it
38:49
followed direction. I would say that first three
38:52
months, probably every single day, the thought of doing
38:54
cocaine came into my mind and it was like so overwhelming where
38:59
no amount of thinking could get out of it.
39:03
And So what was I told action, right?
39:06
Called my, my mentor, call people in recovery.
39:10
And I did that against my better judgement because I didn't, you
39:13
know, like you said, like I don't, it's not easy.
39:15
It's not, it's not enjoyable, right.
39:17
To pick up this phone weighs 1000 lbs sometimes, right.
39:20
But every time I did, I said, hey, I'm thinking about coke
39:22
today. Yeah, that's all I wanted to
39:24
really. And and like, that's it.
39:26
You know, if the conversation goes on from there, I think
39:28
that's that's that's what a lot of people, at least I missed in
39:32
the beginning of of sobriety is making that a connection between
39:36
when you're spinning out talking about.
39:38
It well, I can tell you, Anthony, I can be around alcohol
39:42
in any context and not be triggered.
39:45
Really. I'm not sure if I can still be
39:48
around a pile of coke. Yeah, I'm not sure.
39:53
Like I used to have a joke like if Tom Brady and just sell Bunge
39:58
and a bunch and ask me to like come back and do coke with them,
40:02
I probably wouldn't be able to say no, man.
40:05
The reality is if a ham sandwich asked me to come back and do
40:08
coke with him, I I probably could.
40:09
I couldn't say no. So like so I still and I'm not
40:13
always comfortable with the I guess I'll be an addict for the
40:15
rest of my life kind of language that some people use.
40:18
But yeah, I'm not like I'm OK with saying like.
40:23
For those who are recovered from heroin, we don't ask them to be
40:28
in front of heroin or we don't expect that they can be stay
40:33
safe around heroin, right that I imagined and that's the same for
40:37
me. So like I still remember what
40:42
like scientifically exact escape it was to do that drug and.
40:49
Heroin. No, no, no, no.
40:51
Yeah, I've done heroin. It sucks.
40:53
Yeah, so like, and again, that's pretty good.
40:55
No, my behaviour was so junky. I cannot claim to be a drug
41:00
snob. Even cogas are such drug snobs.
41:03
Like crack. I would never do.
41:04
Crack. Yeah, yeah, or meth.
41:06
Never a fucking tweaker, dude. Never, but all day and all
41:09
night. And like, nosebleeds all.
41:11
Yeah, of course, yeah. Everywhere you go.
41:13
Oh my God. Allergies, yeah, you know, yeah,
41:17
that's. And that's something I've come
41:18
to appreciate in recovery is that it doesn't really matter
41:22
what kind of drug you do we can all relate to the being brought
41:28
to our knees and. And the struggle of recovery.
41:31
Something else that I'm grateful for in recoveries that I
41:34
understand cravings in general better because I still.
41:40
We call it addict behavior or. But I'm like a total cokehead
41:44
when it comes to pizza, popcorn, chips, M&M's, attractive young
41:50
women. Like I will just, I will just
41:53
throw away my future and think of how can I hoard this?
41:58
How can I get more of this than I am entitled to?
42:01
You know, with people, it's kind of in, in, you know, that would
42:04
be an affair or they'll be flirting with somebody.
42:07
With pizza, for example, if there's three people and four
42:13
pieces of pizza, I mean, my brain goes cokehead where it's
42:17
like, I need to eat the first one so fast so that, you know, I
42:20
can claim I can, I can get that second piece before anyone.
42:24
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
42:25
Same with popcorn or chips. I can't really put one piece of
42:28
popcorn chip in my mouth. I have to get like the maximum
42:31
pile of in my hand and then open my mouth as big as I can.
42:34
It's the same reason when you go to like recovery meetings and
42:36
you people are spilling coffee all over the fucking place,
42:38
right? Because we fill up the coffee
42:40
cup right to the top and it's like, how can I get the maximum
42:43
amount of coffee? What if this is my?
42:44
Last coffee ever. You know it's.
42:46
Actually a good way to live in that that state of mind where
42:50
this could be my last. Well, I mean, there's yeah.
42:53
And so like everything we're talking about today.
42:57
And and then we get to like the, the, the, the, the final chapter
43:00
is like, there's a healthy way to do things and an unhealthy
43:03
way to do things. There's a healthy, healthy
43:05
reason for doing things and there's an unhealthy reason for
43:08
doing things, right. So like being an asshole and
43:12
yelling over like the TDC, being late, unhealthy, yelling when
43:22
your feelings are really hurt by somebody or someone's being mean
43:25
to your child or something healthy, right?
43:29
And so I look, I try to look at the world like that now and it's
43:35
a less judge mental way of looking at the world.
43:38
It's not right and wrong, right? You're right and I'm wrong or
43:41
I'm right and you're wrong or what he's doing is wrong.
43:45
I I enjoy, on my best days, I enjoy looking at the world
43:48
through the lens of is it healthy or unhealthy?
43:51
Because there's a lot more nuance and there's a lot more
43:56
room to maneuver when I look at the world like that.
43:59
Yeah. I think for me it's like, yeah,
44:03
the defects of character. I always, a lot of people didn't
44:05
like that, that terminology. I don't.
44:07
Yeah, I have. You're one of those people.
44:09
Yeah, I I'm one of those people that.
44:12
What do you What do you prefer? I don't know, but go keep going.
44:15
I think just it's important to know for me what keeps coming U
44:20
right and so I can label it because then I'm less harsh on
44:23
myself then I can change it going forward.
44:26
I think when you get sober, the space between emotion and
44:30
behavior gets greater and greater, right?
44:32
Because there's always a there's always a space, right?
44:35
TTC bus drivers late and then doesn't seem to care or
44:39
apologize, right? Something like he should be
44:41
apologizing to me. Right, you doesn't.
44:43
Mean that I'm a Prince. Meanwhile he just fucking blew
44:46
his tire on the 401 and waited 3 hours, right?
44:48
We don't think like that. The gap between I'm going to
44:51
fucking rip this guy's head like I'm upset and angry and I'm
44:54
going to say something to this guy gets bigger and bigger.
44:56
Yeah, when I'm more emotionally regulated, my nervous system is
45:01
more regulated. And how do I do that?
45:02
Well, recovery is a practice, right?
45:04
And I'm fucking not perfect either.
45:05
I lose it all the time on people or things.
45:08
But what I can do now is sort of recognize that I'm having that
45:11
thing for me lately. It's what is it?
45:15
Lately I I get really judgy when I see somebody do something and
45:21
I immediately resent. It's, it comes down to
45:23
resentments, right? It always comes down to that's
45:25
the thing that makes us relapse. When I relapsed this last time,
45:28
I resented myself. I was resenting myself for like
45:30
having these and I wasn't telling anyone about it.
45:33
I'll see somebody in my elevator.
45:34
This is coming to my head right now that has like a Rolex style
45:41
watch and immediately I'm like this fucking guy like top of the
45:45
world day must be not because and it's because of my
45:47
insecurity with the money thing. As if he doesn't look at you and
45:50
think the same thing, right? No dude, I can.
45:53
This is absolutely relatable. Go so you don't.
45:56
You don't RIP his head off I don't.
45:57
You don't attack him, but what behavior do you do exactly?
46:00
Great question and that's exact. It's this self deprecating.
46:05
You fucking like punching yourself in the face.
46:07
That should have been me. Or just how dare him not hold
46:12
the elevator for that Lady or you know what I mean?
46:14
Just like immediately. And then it's like I don't even
46:17
know what's the behaviour. It's like I just resentment.
46:19
Just resentment in my chest. How I've had it.
46:22
Or you take it out on somebody else going forward.
46:24
How explained it to me is like in that scenario, it would be
46:29
like, look at him. He's such a prick.
46:32
He's so entitled. He works on Bay St.
46:34
He like he went to private school.
46:38
Someone ought to teach him a lesson.
46:40
I'm going to teach him a lesson. Wait, I'll probably lose because
46:44
I suck. And so he rotates from I'm going
46:47
to attack him to I'm, I'm hurting myself, right.
46:51
Like, and that's where always. Yeah.
46:53
And that's where like, I'm going to rob a bank or I'm going to
46:56
shoot the Prime Minister or I'm going to, you know, you know,
47:00
shoot the athlete who, who lost the game for me, it eventually
47:06
rotates to I'm worthless, I'm a bum.
47:08
I could never even do that right.
47:09
And so that's how that's how that cycle works for me.
47:12
It happened to me. It might have been 2 days ago
47:15
where I was picking up skis from my boss that had been like tuned
47:23
and waxed at Sporting life. Now, I should have known going
47:26
to Sporting Life that this is the preppy, preppy white boy,
47:30
preppy white boy like heaven. And so I should have known that
47:36
my feelings of inadequacy would be triggered there.
47:44
And there was a guy again, same thing.
47:46
Like, look at me. I was wearing a vest.
47:47
I was wearing. I mean, I was like, I basically
47:49
look the same as this guy. But to me it was, he had it so
47:52
easy. He had he never had to work for
47:55
anything in his life. This.
47:56
Story. Just he went to UCC that like
47:59
that prestigious boys school, he went to Bay St. and the the deal
48:04
was that we were both at Sporting Life, 15 minutes for
48:08
closing and everyone was trying to rush to get their stuff done.
48:12
And I arrived slightly before him and it was kind of like, is
48:18
he in line? Is he not?
48:20
And to me, it was like this motherfucker is going can I
48:23
curse? Is that a yeah, yeah, yeah.
48:24
This mother fucker is going to bud the line because he because
48:27
he's so entitled. To BMW, Yeah.
48:30
And I am just going to like and I just just stood like kind of
48:34
like like like a brick house with the executioner face.
48:39
And so did I make a scene? No, But so I was able to get a
48:45
space between the thought and the, the, the, the unhealthy
48:52
reaction. Now what we're trying to the
48:55
next level of sobriety is trying to get some space between the
48:59
thought and the, the, the feeling, the anger, the I'm not
49:05
good enough. So like and just that internal
49:07
dialogue, that inner critic, that inner.
49:09
Critic. So, so I think that yeah, the
49:14
next, the next, the next level level up and the, the, the the
49:19
final boss on the next level is getting space between you and
49:23
that inner critic. And it's also like, huh, I'm
49:26
really angry right now. That's that's funny.
49:29
And you just kind of watch the anger go by.
49:32
That's the Bruce Lee level. Yeah, that's like it's, you
49:34
know, and. It's a leaf floating.
49:35
I'm sure you've had moments like that though, right?
49:37
Like I've had moments in my recovery where I'm like, I'm
49:40
just kind of watching myself be a Jackass in my own head.
49:43
And I'm like, wow, I really want to fucking freak out right now.
49:46
And I'm just like, huh, crazy I'll.
49:49
Tell you, I'll tell you that my favorite moment was in recovery
49:53
and maybe this will be the last story I tell it.
49:56
Or are we Joe Rogan rules? Are we doing 4 hours here?
49:59
OK, I don't have that. OK.
50:02
I don't know how they do it. Yeah.
50:03
You haven't rented the studio that long.
50:04
OK, I did a this was outside of recovery.
50:09
I went to a kind of inner child retreat or like a meditation
50:14
retreat where we forgave our parents for abandoning us.
50:21
Like we just looked at shame from like what we've done wrong
50:25
all the way to that first time where you were crying in the
50:28
crib and your parents left you there in order to teach you how
50:31
to like sleep training. And you learned that you're not
50:34
good enough for their love, right?
50:36
So, so we just, we analyzed shame and the inner critic all
50:39
the way down to the moment, like when we were tiny babies.
50:41
And then we built it up again and forgave ourselves and tried
50:43
to repair it. And so I came out of this
50:46
meditation retreat of courses in California, right?
50:49
I didn't have my phone. And I got, I got in the plane
50:51
and I was like, I was like, hey, anything interesting happened
50:54
last week. And the guy next to me is like,
50:55
you didn't hear about Philip Philip Seymour Hoffman OD ING
50:58
you didn't hear about the Seattle Seahawks winning the
51:00
Super Bowl. I was like, no, I've been, I've
51:02
been without my phone at a meditation retreat.
51:04
And he said, oh, so jealous. I go to an art fair, which is
51:09
like a big convention hall with booths where people sell
51:13
$1,000,000 paintings. But if you, it could be like the
51:16
plunger convention, it just looks the same.
51:19
A guy comes into the the snack bar and sneaks past.
51:24
Everyone goes right up to the front and I tap him on the
51:27
shoulder and I'm like, no, you're, you're putting on the
51:29
red Rambo bandana at this point, right?
51:33
And this guy's like, I tell him so, so I'm sorry, there's a
51:36
line. He's like, oh, well, I'm here
51:37
now. And so I and so I might have
51:41
asked him one more time, but then I said fine, fuck you and
51:45
just stood there and said fuck you.
51:46
And he turned around and he didn't like slap me in the face
51:49
or punch me in the face, but it was somewhere like in between.
51:53
And so he just struck me right in the face in front of
51:57
everyone. And I just stood there and I
52:00
stood there like and I didn't even flinch.
52:03
And everyone's like. And so that was.
52:05
Waiting for you to just like something to happen, right?
52:08
Or how about lose my cool? Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah.
52:10
Or no, I just, I did not move and I just kept looking at him
52:16
and oh, man, I haven't been that like elite Zen level.
52:22
That's like CLT 6. It's like standing up to me.
52:24
And they're like, bro, how did you like someone actually asked
52:27
me and I of course I said I just came back.
52:30
Like I said, the most obnoxious. Yeah, yeah.
52:31
Oh, it's just. It's how I am, no?
52:33
No, no divorce. I just finished a meditation
52:36
retreat in California. But I think that I'm glad we had
52:41
this conversation today because I'm glad I was able to remind
52:45
myself of that success story where I actually lived that
52:51
cliche where like, true serenity is being in an argument, knowing
52:56
you're right, knowing you're correct, and just not, like,
53:00
fighting to the death over it, just walking away.
53:02
Yeah, that's true Serenity. Yeah, it is being the bigger
53:05
man, not not acting on your emotions, right?
53:07
Anger comes up. I don't need to become an angry
53:09
guy, right? Like like mastery, like self
53:14
mastery. For me it's difficult enough
53:18
that I I can spend the rest of my life just working on self
53:20
mastery and not being master of the universe.
53:23
Yeah, yeah. Or Sheriff of the Universe.
53:27
That's, that's my problem, right?
53:29
Yeah, we got a a few more minutes.
53:31
OK, Lila meal. I was going to ask you too, Do
53:36
you do the thing where I have this thing where when, when that
53:39
does happen, the judging or the story spinning of this guy?
53:44
And you know what, it's usually not.
53:46
You're right though. It's usually not just somebody
53:48
standing there that I'm like, look at this motherfucker.
53:50
He's usually done something that I think is wrong.
53:56
You've. Decided he's about to do
53:57
something. Yeah, or that, but like for for
53:59
the guy that was in the elevator that's jumping him and because
54:01
this happens all the time to me, but the guy that recently he
54:04
didn't he I was like dragging something and he didn't like
54:07
help me with it, right. So it's like, yeah, there's he's
54:10
not living according to my script.
54:11
He wasn't the world's greatest Boy Scout exactly in that moment
54:14
on that day. And so that then it triggers all
54:16
this look, and then I'm judging and I'm doing this.
54:18
Do you do the thing too where you start having arguments in
54:21
your head with him? Like he, like if he says this,
54:23
I'm going to say this and then. It's all I do.
54:25
OK, OK, it's all I do. We sound fucking crazy right
54:29
now. Like that's no.
54:30
I don't know, I don't and, and, and, and, and, and I think that
54:33
people in recovery from addiction and who don't have
54:37
addiction issues, I'm, I'm, I'm certain they can relate to this
54:41
where there's, and it's like it's totally relatable when
54:44
there's unfinished business for, for, for people out there with
54:48
their dad, with their ex and they get into those like
54:52
thinking of those devastating 1 liners.
54:54
They could. Say I'm going to get him, I'm
54:55
going to get him with this. And and you and you just in your
54:59
in the movie, in your mind, you're Clint Eastwood, you know,
55:02
And yeah. And then, and I mean, we won't
55:07
call that the healthy version, but there's an even more
55:10
unhealthy version where we we get into these imagined
55:17
arguments with people that where resentments haven't been brewing
55:22
like over like family disagreements or whatever.
55:25
These are random people that come on the on the, on the
55:28
subway, on the, on the on the train and in on the road in
55:32
front of you. Oh, yeah.
55:33
So like driving a car, you don't start getting into like a
55:36
revenge fantasy with someone who like cuts you off or even if you
55:42
think, if you think someone's about to cut you off or you see
55:46
someone who changes lanes without signaling.
55:50
As it turns out, Anthony, like what helps for me is like when
55:53
when someone does that, when they swerve or change lanes, I
55:57
say I sometimes do that because chances are I've done that like
56:03
on the same commute, just like 5 minutes earlier.
56:05
I'm not perfect. And what we do in those moments
56:09
is we judge those other people on their worst moments, right?
56:15
Or even Or we, we, we, we, we guess what their worst moment is
56:20
and we judge them on that. And you said recovery is a
56:24
practice, bro. Everything is a practice.
56:27
Being romantic is a practice. Being hot is a practice.
56:30
Things you, you think you had to be born with.
56:33
No, everything's a practice. And I and not being judge
56:38
mental, not not getting an imagined fights like everything
56:42
else is a practice. And so the good news is you're
56:46
not cursed to have these horror movies playing in your head all
56:49
the time. The bad news is it is a practice
56:51
and it takes action. Yeah, love it.
56:54
Well said. Let's end with this.
56:57
If you could say something to yourself in early recovery, what
57:00
do you think would you would say?
57:03
Wow, I would say, you know, the cliches are true one day at a
57:08
time. And your only job is staying
57:15
healthy today. You will continue to worry about
57:20
your credit rating, your job, your relationships, whether
57:25
people think you're rich or not, whether people think you're bald
57:30
or not. Just what's to stay healthy just
57:36
for today. And because Anthony, I want that
57:40
early recovery Ray to live. I'm 48, I want him to live to
57:44
98. That's another 50 years.
57:48
And so we can take this thing slow.
57:52
You know, 50 years is a long time to score all those cash and
57:55
prizes. Stay healthy right now, just for
58:01
today, I would love it if that Ray got a sponsor, got a Home
58:05
group, did service. But look, if he can just get to
58:08
a meeting today, if he can just get to a meeting and stay
58:11
healthy today, that's all he actually has to do is just stay
58:14
healthy today, love. It well said, Ray.
58:19
Thanks so much for coming down buddy.
58:20
Hell yes dude, I. Appreciate it.
58:21
Give me a hug. Thanks for listening.
58:26
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58:32
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58:35
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58:38
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58:42
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
58:45
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
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