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Transcript

Boxing Whales · System Speak: Complex Trauma and Dissociation

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the System Speak podcast, a podcast about dissociative identity disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to longtime listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 0:59
  Hello. Hello. Okay. Do I say disclaimer?
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: What did I say at the beginning? I have room. You
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: An editing note? Maybe something like that or
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: a post recording reflection. I don't
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: know. What I Do I say that we listen to it together?
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: If you want to, that's okay with me. Okay. Can I Go ahead? One more piece, but you could say no. I think just something that would help me feel better is if you said something about how we're okay or like Okay.
• 1:41
  I don't know. That might be too much to ask. It's okay.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: You don't need that in the writing part, though. Mhmm. Okay.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Let me think what I'm gonna say, and then we
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: can also edit the recording. It's okay.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Well, let me ask you. Is there anything you want to say? I'm anxious that I'll say something wrong. We can edit it.
• 2:08
  Yeah. I have become aware today of how loud my refrigerators are. I'm really sorry. Why did they? Because I recorded something for the kids, and they couldn't understand me because their fridge was like in the background.
• 2:27
  I'm sorry.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: It's okay. If it's too much, you don't have to
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Non just fine. Once I get started, it's okay. It's just hard to get
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: transed out.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Now I feel shy, like, trying to pee in public. I'm sorry. Definitely can edit that.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: You don't wanna talk about peeing in public. I'm sorry.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is very sensitive in some of the things that I share and has taken a great deal of editing. It was the first time since my first therapist that I talked about memory time directly at all in therapy. I also reference my relationship with Jules and don't usually talk about her or when we're actually in conversation together, simply out of privacy and respect. However, in the context of the very hard conversations, which recently aired on the podcast and the disorganized attachment episodes coming up. Now I forgot what I was trying to say.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: You're gonna talk about it being a bridge.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. It was relevant in context in therapy because I have been learning, as you have heard and are about to hear, how sometimes our now time problems are really memory time issues. So I thought I was bringing in the hard conversations, like you heard on the podcast already, to therapy. But what really was activated was memory time things from my parents when I was little, which is way harder to talk about. So it's sensitive in context, though not overly detailed about any specific traumas, and also sensitive out of respect for Jules, who was not there when I recorded this episode.
• 4:49
  Because of that, we listened to it together tonight, a few days before it aired, just
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: to
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: make sure that we both felt safe enough to share the episode. Do you feel safe enough to share the episode?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Yes. Safe enough.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Safe enough. But it is hard. Right? That is hard conversations. And I do have a little disclaimer, an editor's note that we wrote together that I want to share before the episode airs.
• 5:23
  This is also in the show notes. We wanted to say, this therapy session happened three days after the last session where we did the four questions that helped me see how memory time invades now time. I thought I was going into my therapy session to talk about the hard conversations in now time, and my therapist helped me see roots of where memory time invades, which ultimately was a bridge that leads directly to the disorganized attachment pieces we will share starting next week. Also, the song at the end of this episode was the pride theme last summer because so many of us feel isolated from family and caregivers simply because of who we are. Also, Jules looked it up.
• 6:17
  Do you wanna say what the song was what what it was about, the actual song?
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, she wrote it because she was dating a woman, and they were in love. But the woman denied their love and went and tried to be heterosexual, like, super heterosexual to deny her own gayness. So that's what the song was about. Like, the pain of having a partner deny who they are and reject their love.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: The song itself was fun and peppy, hiding the big feelings in the lyrics, which to me felt like a song in drag. For my own arrangement of the song, I slowed it down and added this sad tone to emphasize congruence between music and lyrics. The lyrics were not meant to be literal. All of this to say, this specific episode is very sensitive for both of us. The calming episodes will be very sensitive for all of us.
• 7:23
  As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Today, my therapist said that what I am calling cage match for the last year is just what other people call trauma work. And she says it's healthy. Like, I get to consent, and I get to pass when something gets too hard. And, also, she says the hard truths and helps me see them because that's what I'm there for. And in all this talk about mother hunger and attachment wounds, the topic of reenactment came up.
• 8:18
  But looking at the things has been hard and unpleasant even if what you hear are the silly conversations or the clever recaps. When Jules and I are together and caring for ourselves well. And, also, there's lots of hard. Some of the things that we've talked about publicly are about hard conversations, about what is memory time feelings being activated in now time, and things like her being extra anxious attachment and me being extra avoidant attachment and how that puts us in the pursuer avoidant dynamic as it's called. So while all the details of that may be private, and I don't mean to tell Jewel's story, The other hard is that she never asked me to come here.
• 9:22
  I just did on my own. And, also, Jules does not live with me and is not going to live with me, And that is really hard for me to accept, and it's something I wrestled with for three years now. Why that is and what that is and all the private details behind the scenes are not what I wanna talk about today. But I have talked about it since undaydreaming. That's what that was about.
• 9:56
  And I wrestled with it with unfawning and uncowing, trying to be less codependent, which it turns out sometimes looks like extreme independence, which I didn't understand. And, also, at the same time, it's true that Jules and I are still good in the context of what our relationship is. I think part of what's hard is that we both feel at any moment it might not be good anymore, or the other person might be gone. And it's hard for me with my specific traumas to receive reassurance about that while also making lace which she's not coming either. Except she does come several times a week, and I see her at work as well.
• 11:08
  That's my fireball, my work of acceptance, of letting Jules just be Jules, and also figuring out what does that mean for me on the day she's not here. Sometimes that's not hard. I mean, I always miss her the way I always miss my family and also specific and unique to missing her. And, also, I have a lot of work, and that keeps me busy. So sometimes the days off give me air, not because I'm glad she's not there.
• 11:54
  That's not ever true. But just because it's rest or silence or reflection. Things that I cannot do in the same way when we are playing together, which is also sometimes reflection, like the wolves books or recaps or talking together, whether it's on the podcast or not. But it's a lot of making lace we're doing, me and Jules, and our therapists who work so hard. I can't even tell you.
• 12:39
  And today in therapy, it was hard. We were talking about something in now time, and my therapist kept asking my feelings because that's what therapists do. And my therapist said, when I hear you say these things, the word that comes to mind is cruel. I was very careful to let my therapist know at that point that I did not plan on crying today. She clarified to ask if I had permission to cry if I wanted.
• 13:21
  And I said, of course I do. I'm not stopping me or any other part of my system from crying. But who wants to, really? She took that as an invitation and said, let's find out, which is not what I was intending. So she asked permission to ask a hard question, promising I could pass if I didn't want to.
• 13:50
  I don't want to, And, also, it's why I'm there in therapy, not just to learn how to be friends or how to love or how to be loved. It's also to talk about why it's so hard to love and be loved. And she asked, when I say the word cruel, where does cruel come up in childhood? And I don't remember what I answered. I honestly don't remember, but it shifted to manipulative, and we dug in there.
• 14:41
  Something about abuse being cruel and deprivation being cruel. Maybe that was it. That trauma and deprivation are always cruel. Maybe I was trying to make a joke instead of talking about the hard things, avoidance, pacing, both. So she got specific.
• 15:08
  How is your mother manipulative? I mean, without even telling any stories, that seems easy to answer. I had to take care of her instead of her taking care of me. And it was intense, that caretaking. And I got very close to crying, but I focused my breathing so that I wouldn't and kept the tears at bay.
• 16:02
  But my therapist was giving me a look, and I said, I don't know why you think you're doing therapy on steroids lately. She almost took the bait to get off track, but she didn't, and she stuck with it. And I saw that and started to panic because I thought she was gonna tie it back to now time. This is the cage match. Two boxers in the ring.
• 16:35
  Me and my therapist. Waiting to see where the next punch is gonna land. Dancing on our feet around each other. Keeping score, predicting the next move. I'm sure it has nothing to do with childhood.
• 16:57
  But I thought her next move was gonna be tying that back to now time and having to tend to people or take care of people and why my life gets out of balance with too much of that. I thought this because we've been talking about boundaries and caring for me too and what that looks like to tend to my own wounds instead of everyone else's. So it would make sense that that's where she was going. But Nathan is caring more and more for himself. The children are growing more and more independent, and I want to care about Jules.
• 17:53
  So what is there to say about now time? It's fine. But that's not where my therapist landed her punch. Her boxer feet dance steps backwards, staying in memory time and hitting where it hurt. She said, if you had to take care of your mother instead of her taking care of you.
• 18:36
  What did taking care of your father look like? Things happened inside me. Flashes of scenes in front of my eyes. I wasn't even in the room anymore. Littles faintly, voices distinct in the distance, surfacing like swimming underwater.
• 19:31
  And then I realize it is me underwater, except I'm not. And tears flow down my face, and I could not breathe. And I cried silently for fifteen minutes. Trying, wanting to heal, and wanting to answer the questions and also knowing better not to. And not being able to get the words out, not letting the littles out, and finally just shaking my head, giving up on myself.
• 20:39
  Maybe if there had been more time, I could, but it was at the end of the session. And there was not time to fall apart and put myself back together again. And so finally, I just shook my head. And she asked if I wanted to pass, and I said yes.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Well, I didn't say it. I nodded my head and kept crying.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And then I said, do you know how whales die? It's really tragic and awful. They just get tired. They don't even get old. They just grow weak and can't bring themselves to the surface anymore,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: and then they sink.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: That's how they die. I said to be explicit and clear, I don't have any plans on harming myself. I don't want to die. But sometimes I feel like I'm running out of air. She said, that's what therapy is for, to give us air.
• 22:54
  And it's why we need air on our own when we're not in therapy, even in relationships, even in grief and sadness that are a part of acceptance. That we need air to survive. So we didn't talk about safety planning. But she listed the things that bring me air, like walks outside and music, food on a patio, and alone time balanced with good conversation with people I love because sometimes life feels like it's drowning us. Sometimes we're whales, sinking.
• 24:40
  I need to lift each other up.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: And maybe the poking and prodding
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: that I thought was boxing in a cage match is just therapy, giving me air, helping me see and accept the things, not just to keep me alive, but so that I can heal.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: And there is air in that. It's fine.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: It's
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: cool. You can say that we are nothing, but you know the Thank you for listening. Your support of the podcast, the workbooks, and the community means so much to us as we try to create something together that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing, and you can join us on the community@www.systemspeak.com. We'll see you there.