Latest / The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson / Marketing that can’t be Ignored with Mike Michalowicz & John Lawson

Transcript

Marketing that can’t be Ignored with Mike Michalowicz & John Lawson · The SmallBizChat with Melinda Emerson

• 0:00
  As technology moves forward, it's going to change the way the commerce works.
• 0:06
  So there's You gotta be aware that nothing stays the same in ecommerce.
• 0:12
  It never stay.
• 0:13
  It's constantly moving from iteration to iteration.
• 0:18
  See where you can find your market and measure it.
• 0:20
  Then once you start getting some resonance with the community, ask them why is it working?
• 0:24
  Once you start finding that avatar, like, John was saying, like, they had time to double down
• 0:28
  on them, cater them speak their language, understand that community.
• 0:35
  One zero ignition, liftoff.
• 0:40
  Ending small business failure.
• 0:43
  Welcome to the Small Biz Chat podcast with a number 1 small business expert, Melinda
• 0:48
  Emerson.
• 0:49
  Melinda's goal is to end small business failure, and she'll give you the information
• 0:53
  you need to succeed and live the life you dream of.
• 0:57
  Now here's the small biz lady herself.
• 1:01
  Melinda Emerson.
• 1:03
  Hi, everybody.
• 1:04
  This is Melinda Emerson, the small biz lady.
• 1:06
  I wanted to invite you to a special edition of the small biz chat podcast.
• 1:12
  That's right.
• 1:12
  I got 2 heavy hitters with us today.
• 1:16
  I've got my boy, my hokey brother, the author of the brand new book get different.
• 1:22
  Mike Michalowitz is here.
• 1:25
  You guys know him.
• 1:26
  He wrote toilet paper entrepreneur.
• 1:28
  He wrote the pumpkin plan.
• 1:30
  He wrote profit first.
• 1:31
  I know y'all know about profit first.
• 1:34
  And he wrote this book called fix this next, but his latest book that literally just came
• 1:38
  out a couple of days ago, get different is out He's gonna be here to talk about that book in a
• 1:44
  whole lot more, but not to be outdone.
• 1:47
  My brother from another mother.
• 1:49
  John Lawson is here.
• 1:51
  John Lawson is one of the top ecommerce experts in the country.
• 1:56
  Let me break this down for you guys.
• 1:58
  Let me let me let me break this down for you guys.
• 2:01
  This dude has made eight figures selling on marketplaces like Amazon and eBay.
• 2:06
  Okay.
• 2:07
  So if you're wondering why they're here today, this is what I'm trying to tell you.
• 2:12
  These people know what they're doing.
• 2:14
  And I gotta be honest with you guys.
• 2:16
  When I need help with my business, these are the guys that I call.
• 2:21
  So, basically, I have made my mentors available to you guys today, and that's all because I
• 2:27
  wanted to thank you guys for being so generous and buying my book, my brand new book, become
• 2:33
  your own boss in 12 months, revised, and expanded, which came out Just a week ago, and
• 2:38
  I'm so proud earlier today, I saw we were ranking number 2 and number 5 on home based
• 2:44
  businesses on Amazon.
• 2:46
  So the Kindle y'all buying it on Kindle y'all buying the real book, and you guys are buying
• 2:51
  the e audible version as well.
• 2:53
  And I voiced the audible version.
• 2:55
  So if you wanted me to read it to you, you gotta get the audible version, but I am so, so,
• 3:00
  so excited to have my guests here today you guys.
• 3:04
  I know you're so, so busy, Mike, so I thank you so much for being here.
• 3:08
  And, John, you always come whenever I call, and that's what a good brother does.
• 3:12
  Right?
• 3:13
  So Listen.
• 3:14
  Let's jump in.
• 3:15
  Right?
• 3:15
  There's so much stuff going on right now.
• 3:18
  You know, we got all these businesses still recovering from the pandemic.
• 3:22
  And then we got all these people in corporate America who were like, you know what?
• 3:27
  I'm not coming back into the office.
• 3:29
  Right?
• 3:29
  So we got this.
• 3:30
  What are they calling it?
• 3:31
  The great resignation going on.
• 3:34
  So now all these people are like, yeah.
• 3:36
  You know what?
• 3:37
  Small business could be for me.
• 3:39
  So, Mike, what's going on?
• 3:41
  Why are all these people deciding to come over here and be with us?
• 3:46
  Yeah.
• 3:46
  So, I'm calling the great realignment You know, I I think the great resignation is a little bit
• 3:52
  of a negative term.
• 3:52
  Like, that people are just giving up.
• 3:54
  I think they're they're giving up on what they don't like.
• 3:57
  But they're realigning to what they do like.
• 4:00
  And there's no question.
• 4:01
  You know, we're talking off air to three of us.
• 4:03
  There's no question that people are seeing the greatness that exists in entrepreneurship.
• 4:09
  There's 2 things.
• 4:10
  You can achieve personal freedom, meaning to do what you desire on this planet, and your
• 4:17
  entrepreneurship, your business can be a platform for it.
• 4:20
  The other thing is financial freedom.
• 4:22
  You can unequivocally make more money on your own than you can work in for someone else.
• 4:27
  Now that does not mean it's easy.
• 4:29
  It it's not a snap of the fingers.
• 4:30
  You need I swear I love your book.
• 4:32
  You need a very specific pathway to follow, and you have to put a lot of grit into it.
• 4:37
  But when you pull it off, I think the great realignment will work in your favor.
• 4:42
  I agree.
• 4:42
  I agree, John.
• 4:43
  What about you?
• 4:44
  I mean, it seems like everybody that wants started business right now thinks e commerce is
• 4:48
  the way to go, but you can get hurt out here at e commerce land.
• 4:52
  Can't you let me talk to me about the the the speed with which people can get into business
• 4:57
  and the speed with which people can get hurt.
• 4:59
  So let's get that.
• 5:01
  Well, one of the things I think that people have made are the platforms have made it easy
• 5:07
  to get started in ecommerce.
• 5:09
  Right?
• 5:09
  So you've got Shopify out here that's making it stupid simple.
• 5:14
  20 years ago when I started in ecommerce, yes, I am that old.
• 5:18
  When I started it was, I mean, it would cost you 15,000 to $25,000 to start a business.
• 5:27
  On online and build a store with stuff like Shopify, you can get that up and running for,
• 5:33
  you know, 75 bucks maybe.
• 5:35
  And that's really what the great equalizer is.
• 5:39
  It's technology.
• 5:40
  Technology is making a stupid simple to get your products in front of an audience.
• 5:46
  And then you throw on the Amazons and the ebays of the world, the marketplaces, Etsy as well,
• 5:52
  you are getting put in front of an already built out audience.
• 5:56
  You don't have to do all that work.
• 5:59
  You just have to get attention now.
• 6:01
  We are in the age of attention.
• 6:04
  And if I can get enough attention from enough consumers that are interested in a product I
• 6:10
  can start a business.
• 6:12
  That's the easy part.
• 6:14
  At least that's the way they present it to you.
• 6:16
  The hard part is to get a business that is profitable and running, and because you've got
• 6:23
  a lot of expenses You've got inventory you have to buy.
• 6:26
  You have to know how to market, which we're gonna talk about.
• 6:29
  So there's things that you need to do to fill in the blanks And, of course, your book does
• 6:34
  really good at helping people fill in those blanks.
• 6:38
  Well, when I wrote become your own boss, what I was really trying to do was teach people the
• 6:44
  business of running a business because I everybody pretty much can build their widget.
• 6:48
  Right?
• 6:48
  People know how to bake their cakes.
• 6:50
  People are good.
• 6:52
  At pest control.
• 6:53
  What they're not good at is running a business, building their sales systems.
• 6:59
  Follow-up systems, building their team, you know, and really understanding that they are a
• 7:04
  leader, but that they have to work on their leadership.
• 7:07
  Like, just because you own a business doesn't make you a leader.
• 7:09
  It makes you somebody that owns a business.
• 7:10
  Right?
• 7:10
  So I think that there's so much more to it And then it's the personal toll that it takes.
• 7:16
  Nobody tells you about the personal toll it takes on your family.
• 7:21
  On your kids when you're working 12 to 14 hours, 31 days in a row.
• 7:26
  Right?
• 7:27
  You know?
• 7:27
  And you've gotta take into account, and that's why I always talk about life plan first.
• 7:32
  You gotta figure out what you want and why you want it.
• 7:35
  And then let's help you build a business that's gonna allow you to live that way.
• 7:39
  Sometimes I see people quit good six figure corporate jobs to start a franchise.
• 7:45
  And then later on, they're like, but I don't like kids and teenagers where my employees.
• 7:52
  Right.
• 7:53
  Did you go work in a business like the one you wanna store.
• 7:56
  I mean, literally it's it's it's kind of as simple as that, but I think sometimes people
• 8:01
  have gotten into this.
• 8:02
  I wanna be a boss.
• 8:04
  You know, every everybody's a boss, and we have have built these fantasies of grandeur a little
• 8:10
  bit about business.
• 8:11
  And business is great, but Tell me if I'm right or wrong, Fellas.
• 8:15
  There's an upfront hazy process involved in business.
• 8:19
  Right?
• 8:20
  I mean, you don't you're not gonna make truckloads of money right away.
• 8:24
  In fact, what does it take about 12 to 18 months for a small business to break even?
• 8:29
  Let alone.
• 8:30
  Get to the point where it's gonna replace your corporate salary.
• 8:33
  Like, that could year 3.
• 8:35
  Right?
• 8:35
  So I think we have to just what I always want to do is just give people a realistic idea of
• 8:42
  what it was to start a business.
• 8:44
  Cause I just wanted to give because I think it could be overwhelming because it's like, look,
• 8:47
  you're taking on 10 to 12 jobs of one time.
• 8:50
  Any of which can close line you on any given day.
• 8:54
  Right?
• 8:54
  So that was what my thinking was When I was about my 7th or 8th year in business was when I
• 9:00
  started working on becoming your own boss.
• 9:02
  And I wrote it because I was like, You know what?
• 9:05
  I would've run my business better if I had had better advice.
• 9:08
  But back then, back then, who was giving out small business information in mass media back
• 9:14
  then, like nobody.
• 9:16
  I mean, Michael Gerber at that point had written, you know, the e myth, but it wasn't
• 9:20
  like The only people on TV talking about business and finance was Susie Orman and Jean
• 9:26
  Chaski on the today show, and what they were talking about 401 k's and stuff.
• 9:29
  Something, you know, business people don't necessarily have right away.
• 9:33
  So I think that when we think about business, we want people to get excited, I want people to
• 9:38
  have a passion for what they're doing, but your passion has to have a profit center or you got
• 9:45
  a glorified hobby.
• 9:46
  Am I right, Mike?
• 9:48
  You're totally right.
• 9:49
  And it it's funny.
• 9:49
  Somebody you alluded to earlier is if I just had a plan, if I just had a mentor, I think it
• 9:54
  was Mike Tyson who said something, and I'm gonna paraphrase that everyone has a plan to
• 9:58
  beat Mike Tyson until they get in the ring and take that first punch in the face.
• 10:02
  Which, by the way, would split my face wide open and I'd be instantly dead.
• 10:05
  So that's my plan.
• 10:06
  But when we go into entrepreneurship, I can tell you, Melinda, and I know John, you've
• 10:10
  experienced this in times that people say, oh, I'm gonna have a 6 figure business.
• 10:14
  I'm gonna have a 7 figure business.
• 10:16
  We all talk about this top line big number.
• 10:19
  And we assume that it's way easier than it is.
• 10:22
  It ain't.
• 10:23
  And that when we achieve it of all the money in the world, you know, once I hit $1,000,000.
• 10:27
  I'm gonna be taking home a million bucks.
• 10:29
  Most businesses who don't have a plan get to a $1,000,000 by spending $1,200,000.
• 10:35
  They lose in the process.
• 10:38
  So we have to go in and also, I acknowledge you nail on the head.
• 10:42
  What do we want for ourselves?
• 10:44
  What is a healthy business serving a healthy lifestyle for us.
• 10:47
  Start there and then build accordingly.
• 10:50
  I believe the right size business will fill will find you.
• 10:53
  If you really know what you want intrinsically and start building business around it, maybe
• 10:58
  you don't need that multimillion dollar business to live a very happy lifestyle.
• 11:01
  Start with you.
• 11:03
  I couldn't agree more.
• 11:04
  But, you know, one of the things that I find so interesting is that the pandemic changed a lot.
• 11:10
  Like, the business has changed a lot in the last 18 months, especially how people market.
• 11:17
  And And, Mike, that's where you living right now.
• 11:20
  So it's because I feel like I see so many people out here chasing stuff.
• 11:24
  With everybody's chasing TikTok now.
• 11:26
  You know?
• 11:27
  And it's like, okay.
• 11:29
  Is it about doing what everybody else is doing or doing what's hot right now?
• 11:34
  Does everybody need a TikTok account of mine?
• 11:37
  Yeah.
• 11:37
  Everybody that needs a TikTok account are the same people that needed a What was the one with
• 11:44
  the the audio owned?
• 11:45
  My it was my space
• 11:47
  and No.
• 11:48
  No.
• 11:48
  Clubhouse.
• 11:48
  Clubhouse.
• 11:51
  So you last year, you wanted clubhouse.
• 11:53
  This year, you want TikTok.
• 11:55
  The year before that, you wanted Instagram.
• 11:58
  I know you people.
• 11:59
  I know you people.
• 12:01
  You're chasing, and it's not gonna work.
• 12:04
  Right.
• 12:04
  I I'm just gonna tell you.
• 12:05
  It's not gonna work.
• 12:06
  There's 800,800,000,800,000,800,000,000 people go into TikTok every month.
• 12:13
  800,000,000.
• 12:14
  That's a lot of people, isn't it?
• 12:15
  There's 2,000,000,000 people that go to YouTube every month, but you chasing TikTok.
• 12:21
  Why?
• 12:22
  Because you just it's the hot thing right now.
• 12:24
  It sounds good.
• 12:25
  You kids think it's fun, but I remember when that was clubhouse.
• 12:29
  How many y'all are still doing clubhouse?
• 12:31
  Okay.
• 12:32
  I have
• 12:32
  I got an account.
• 12:34
  I got an account.
• 12:34
  If not, somebody invites me to go in there, but I don't I don't have time to go in there and
• 12:38
  kinda reach.
• 12:39
  He is pick a lane and stick in at their people right now that are making great businesses out
• 12:46
  of clubhouse.
• 12:47
  You don't need to jump over to TikTok.
• 12:50
  Pick a lane.
• 12:51
  That's what I'm all about.
• 12:52
  You know, you wanna get in front of an audience, one that works, one that's the
• 12:57
  audience that is actually going to listen to or already are listening to influences in that
• 13:03
  area.
• 13:04
  Jump into the conversation.
• 13:05
  That's already happened.
• 13:07
  Alright.
• 13:07
  I'm done.
• 13:11
  Gold.
• 13:12
  It just rained gold.
• 13:13
  So, John, thank you.
• 13:15
  I I what John was talking about is is mediums.
• 13:18
  Right?
• 13:18
  So pick the medium you're in.
• 13:20
  And I also wanna touch on the other part, which is the method.
• 13:22
  So once you have the medium you're using, how are you communicating?
• 13:25
  I'll tell you how things change in the pandemic.
• 13:28
  Some people use the email medium.
• 13:30
  A lot of companies do that.
• 13:31
  They do email blast.
• 13:32
  And what people were doing, some companies, ineffectively, is they were doing pandering.
• 13:38
  There was emails coming from, a large company.
• 13:40
  I won't mention her name, called Chevy.
• 13:44
  That said they I was looking to buy a car and my lease was coming to an end and they said, we
• 13:49
  are all in this together.
• 13:51
  If I heard one more effing time, we're all in this together, I don't wanna be pander to.
• 13:56
  And they said, we're all in this together, so you need to buy another Chevy.
• 13:59
  Like, you're you're trying to leverage a hardship for so many people and and spin this
• 14:04
  to a sale, screw you.
• 14:06
  United Airlines ironically who I travel and don't like necessarily blew me away.
• 14:11
  They sent out email messages saying, during this pandemic, we don't know what you're
• 14:15
  experiencing.
• 14:16
  We just wanna know you were wishing you well.
• 14:18
  And so that was nice.
• 14:19
  First of all, they acknowledge what they didn't know.
• 14:21
  So I was like, that's cool.
• 14:22
  Then they said, we are taking action on your behalf without you having to do anything.
• 14:27
  You're a loyal member.
• 14:28
  We're gonna extend your loyalty program another year.
• 14:30
  Just wishing you well.
• 14:32
  They weren't selling me.
• 14:33
  They were just servicing me.
• 14:35
  The smartest thing small businesses did was reach out to our client list and say, Hey, we
• 14:40
  don't know how this pandemic is affecting you.
• 14:42
  We're wishing you well.
• 14:43
  We just want you to know we're still open for business.
• 14:46
  You may not even know that.
• 14:47
  So if you need us, when you need us, we're here waiting for you.
• 14:51
  That was a smart thing.
• 14:52
  I don't think hardship is an opportunity to sell.
• 14:55
  Hardship is an opportunity to acknowledge.
• 14:59
  I agree.
• 15:00
  I agree.
• 15:01
  But one of the things that I thought was so fascinating was how we all started buying
• 15:06
  everything online.
• 15:08
  You
• 15:08
  know, my mother my mother who is 73 now uses Instacart.
• 15:15
  Schmoke.
• 15:16
  Hughes's Instacart.
• 15:18
  And, you know, this is the person who wouldn't even set up an online bank account because she
• 15:23
  didn't trust them people.
• 15:24
  Right?
• 15:25
  I mean, this is the same person who now can go on Instacart and get her groceries delivered.
• 15:31
  And I saw a statistic the other day, and and I know you appreciate this, John, that said by
• 15:39
  2040, 95% of all purchases are gonna take place online.
• 15:47
  That's that's like every that means that means we're buying cars online.
• 15:51
  We're buying shoes online.
• 15:52
  We're buying toilet paper online.
• 15:54
  Like, That means people aren't gonna leave their house again.
• 15:56
  What I mean, is that real, John?
• 15:58
  I
• 15:59
  mean No.
• 16:03
  I'm sorry.
• 16:04
  I'm sorry.
• 16:05
  I'm a stick a pin in it.
• 16:07
  That's a bubble.
• 16:08
  I wish.
• 16:09
  I wish, and it's funny.
• 16:11
  I was just speaking in Florida the other day, and the guy asked me the question.
• 16:15
  Similar to that, and I said my number is probably around 50, 55%.
• 16:21
  Made 50 to 60% of all things.
• 16:24
  I think that's the high watermark.
• 16:26
  Right?
• 16:27
  Because even right now, last year, It was still only 25%.
• 16:33
  And that's with the pandemic.
• 16:35
  With the pandemic.
• 16:36
  Right?
• 16:37
  Because, look, There is just certain things that we as humans have become accustomed to
• 16:44
  that we're just not going to do online.
• 16:48
  Right, or only to so much of an extent.
• 16:51
  We have to get out.
• 16:52
  We have to communicate.
• 16:54
  I mean, we're doing this thing right now on Zoom.
• 16:56
  It's fantastic.
• 16:57
  But it's not the same as if we're sitting in the room.
• 17:00
  Right.
• 17:00
  And so we know that.
• 17:02
  So and when it comes to, you know, shopping, shopping is actually something that people do
• 17:09
  together.
• 17:11
  Right?
• 17:11
  I know.
• 17:12
  I know.
• 17:12
  The malls are closing.
• 17:14
  I get it.
• 17:15
  Right?
• 17:15
  But when you and some of your friends wanna get together, you might go and do some shopping
• 17:20
  with me and my friends to get get together, We're gonna go look at some computers or
• 17:25
  something.
• 17:26
  We'll we'll do stuff together.
• 17:27
  That's part of us being social.
• 17:30
  Right?
• 17:31
  And you can't do that by yourself all the time.
• 17:35
  It would just it would just won't happen.
• 17:37
  So there's just an there's a There's a number that's ingrained that people are going to go
• 17:42
  out and do.
• 17:44
  Now don't get me wrong.
• 17:45
  There are people buying their furniture They're betting.
• 17:49
  They're closing apparel online.
• 17:52
  Right?
• 17:52
  But all there's nothing like trying that thing on to see how it looks.
• 17:58
  On you.
• 17:58
  Right?
• 17:59
  And there's nothing like window shopping and just trying stuff on, even I'm not even gonna
• 18:04
  buy right now.
• 18:05
  It gets if it it gets me that tactile feeling that I don't think we have yet.
• 18:12
  Now when you know, Star Trek comes and we have that hole in the wall where we can say
• 18:19
  something to it and it appears in the wall Then I'll get you to 95%.
• 18:25
  I don't see that happening by 2040.
• 18:28
  That's just my opinion.
• 18:30
  Interesting.
• 18:31
  Interesting.
• 18:31
  What do you think, Mike?
• 18:32
  I mean, it it it does seem like ecommerce is the future.
• 18:37
  So, yes, Mike.
• 18:38
  You know, John said, you know, he predicts 55% in 2040.
• 18:42
  I predict 56%.
• 18:47
  He's like price is right.
• 18:49
  It's gotta be one point higher.
• 18:51
  You know, John's when John said the taxile, it it actually gave me a little bit of goosebumps.
• 18:56
  I couldn't think of a better word for it.
• 18:58
  You know, we are at our highest rate of societal depression ever right now, the highest
• 19:03
  rate of depression, and the common factor is exclusion from each other to John's point.
• 19:09
  We need to shop for that computer together.
• 19:12
  You know, one common therapy they're saying right now is simply get outside physically with
• 19:17
  your shoes off.
• 19:18
  Get your bare feet in the ground.
• 19:20
  We need that tactile experience.
• 19:22
  So I don't know what the numbers are gonna be.
• 19:25
  I do know that we need to touch feel and be with each other experiencing things together.
• 19:30
  That there there's no question about that.
• 19:33
  Well, Mike, in your book, get different.
• 19:35
  You you really talk about how it's not about being better at anybody else's marketing.
• 19:41
  It's about being different.
• 19:43
  Can you talk to us a little bit about, like, what you mean by that?
• 19:48
  Because how many new ideas are there under the sun, Mike?
• 19:51
  Oh my god.
• 19:51
  I mean, there's millions.
• 19:52
  Right?
• 19:52
  And, I think we're all told that you win when you're better, but Better's invisible.
• 19:58
  Say the 3 of us had businesses, and we all compete.
• 20:00
  We all, you know, say dry cleaners or something.
• 20:02
  And I say, you know what, our dry cleaner, we're gonna answer the phone in three rings.
• 20:06
  John's like, you know, our dry cleaner, we're gonna answer in 2.
• 20:08
  And, Melinda, you say we're gonna do it in 1.
• 20:10
  Unequivocally, you are better, Melinda.
• 20:13
  I mean, you are measurably better, but the question is, does the customer even notice?
• 20:18
  No.
• 20:19
  No.
• 20:20
  That that's not even necessarily a buying factor.
• 20:22
  And we can try to be better in all these areas.
• 20:25
  I I used to have a computer service business.
• 20:27
  I was a computer guy.
• 20:28
  And, I had all the certifications from Microsoft back in the day.
• 20:32
  This is 25 years ago.
• 20:34
  No Vowel and all these different systems.
• 20:35
  And I could brag how extraordinary it was.
• 20:38
  But my customer didn't notice.
• 20:39
  In fact, me and my hundreds of competitors were always just trying to slog out by being better.
• 20:44
  One company came in and did different, and they kicked my ass on to to Sunday and who it was
• 20:50
  was Geek Squad.
• 20:51
  Here's a a group that decides to wear these costumes with flood pants and taper glasses and
• 20:57
  customers went wild because we noticed different.
• 21:01
  We are w is the human nature we're wired when something unexpected presents itself we
• 21:05
  consider it.
• 21:05
  And if it's an alignment with what we want, it entertains us.
• 21:08
  It serves a need we have, maybe a combination thereof, we consume it.
• 21:12
  Who who doesn't want a geek fixing their computers?
• 21:15
  And it's funny when they show up in their Keystone cops' cars.
• 21:18
  So different gets noticed Don't be better because the customer won't see that.
• 21:24
  Pursue different.
• 21:26
  I like it.
• 21:27
  I like it.
• 21:28
  Well, John, one of the things that I know that we've always talked about is you gotta know
• 21:35
  your customer.
• 21:36
  You gotta know not just who your customer is, but you gotta really know them.
• 21:41
  Right?
• 21:42
  You gotta know them.
• 21:43
  What are their aspirations?
• 21:45
  What are their fears?
• 21:47
  What what what inspires them.
• 21:49
  And how but how do you get that information if you're just, you know, building a business in
• 21:54
  the back bedroom of your house?
• 21:55
  Like, how do you get?
• 21:57
  Because there's one thing for us to say, moms, 30 plus professionals, educated, live in the
• 22:04
  suburbs, has a master's degree.
• 22:08
  It's like, okay.
• 22:08
  That's demographic information, but how do we get that?
• 22:12
  I guess what we call is ethnographic information?
• 22:14
  Like, how do we get the other stuff and figure out what people really want so that we can
• 22:20
  create an emotional connections with them?
• 22:23
  Well, one of the things that I really, adhere to and teach is creating an avatar.
• 22:29
  Okay?
• 22:30
  And an avatar is just basically a persona that you are going to service.
• 22:37
  Who do I who is my best customer that I really want to service and then narrow that down to an
• 22:45
  individual with a name.
• 22:47
  Okay.
• 22:48
  So you're gonna know about Betty.
• 22:50
  She works at this company.
• 22:53
  She makes this much a year.
• 22:54
  She's got 2 children.
• 22:56
  She lives in this kind of house.
• 22:58
  She's married.
• 22:59
  She's she likes baking on the weekends.
• 23:02
  Whatever it is.
• 23:03
  You wanna just narrow down all of these things.
• 23:06
  Here's what she loves.
• 23:08
  Here's what she fears.
• 23:10
  All of this stuff, you create the single persona.
• 23:13
  Now you've made Betty, then I need you to make Jack.
• 23:16
  Alright?
• 23:17
  If the if your business serves male and female, I'll need you to make a female one and a male
• 23:22
  one.
• 23:23
  And then I kinda like people to make a third one, which can be either younger than the other
• 23:28
  2, older than the other 2, something that's different from the male and the female, not
• 23:33
  like a hybrid or anything.
• 23:35
  You know what I'm saying?
• 23:36
  But just something that makes them a little bit different.
• 23:39
  Then you have these 3 personas, and everything you do with marketing has to relate to one of
• 23:45
  those 3.
• 23:46
  And if you know you're just talking to Betty, and you're trying to create some kind of, you
• 23:52
  know, social campaign for Betty.
• 23:55
  This is for Betty.
• 23:56
  Then you once you reach Betty, Do you know how many betty there are in the world?
• 24:01
  A lot.
• 24:02
  So it's really just about, like, Mike says it's it's about being different If I am relating to
• 24:08
  Betty, where she is, and all the problems and all the things that are are motivating for her,
• 24:16
  She thinks I get her, and I do get her, you know, because we don't advertise.
• 24:22
  We advertise to the world but the world only looks at our advertising singly.
• 24:29
  And so you've gotta be able to talk to people on a one to one level.
• 24:33
  So I talk and when I'm looking at people's, you know, marketing stuff, if it's full of you guys
• 24:39
  and y'all and people like, I'm like, can we personalize this to just Betty without using
• 24:45
  Betty's name?
• 24:45
  But can we personalize the marketing?
• 24:48
  Because anytime we pick up this thing, We're not doing it in a group.
• 24:52
  You noticed that.
• 24:53
  Right?
• 24:54
  People are doing this by themselves.
• 24:56
  So if you want your marketing to reach them, you gotta talk directly to them.
• 25:00
  And when they see that, they're going to move forward.
• 25:03
  I don't even remember what the question was.
• 25:08
  She said, where are you located?
• 25:09
  She said, where are
• 25:10
  you located?
• 25:11
  My bill, you were talking about, you know, how how to market to these people.
• 25:16
  And then that's what you really we'd really gotta start doing because if you're not doing
• 25:21
  that, you're gonna market something to everybody And guess what?
• 25:25
  If you're marketing to everybody, you're marketing to nobody.
• 25:28
  Exactly.
• 25:28
  If everybody can use it, nobody will.
• 25:30
  So, Mike, do you believe that there are, like, some critical decisions that people need to
• 25:35
  make about their business at each stage of marketing.
• 25:39
  Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
• 25:41
  Yeah.
• 25:41
  Yeah.
• 25:42
  And I love the truth bombs from what John said.
• 25:44
  I see it so much that people do this broad marketing because they see themselves talking
• 25:48
  to everybody, but the recipient means you're talking to some one else.
• 25:52
  Yeah.
• 25:52
  There's different saves of marketing, you know, it depends on what your business is looking to
• 25:56
  achieve.
• 25:56
  I think in the beginning, we do have to try out multiple markets.
• 26:01
  When I started out, I thought my avatar was college students because I started my business
• 26:07
  right out of college, radiology and tech.
• 26:09
  And I was like, oh, this is what other students will do.
• 26:11
  So I speak with students groups, but they weren't consuming.
• 26:14
  So the early stages of marketing is putting stuff out there based upon your best
• 26:18
  assumptions, but measuring the results.
• 26:20
  And you you should do that throughout.
• 26:22
  It was hard for me to digest.
• 26:24
  People weren't buying my stuff, who weren't buying my books.
• 26:27
  And I was like, well, this isn't working until they started getting calls from moms, who said,
• 26:32
  Hey, I read your book because my child brought, you know, my student at college brought home
• 26:36
  and left it here.
• 26:37
  And I was intrigued by a child, so I read it.
• 26:40
  And then you have to start doing surveys.
• 26:41
  So the fur then the beginning is see where you can find your market and measure it.
• 26:46
  Then once you start getting some resonance with the community, ask them why is it working?
• 26:50
  So I said to these moms, like, why are you reading my buck?
• 26:53
  Was called the toilet paper entrepreneur too.
• 26:54
  It was kinda edgy.
• 26:55
  They said, oh, because this is one of the first books I read by a male author that wasn't
• 27:00
  pandering to a female audience.
• 27:02
  You're just putting it out there as is, and you believe in me through your book just as much as
• 27:06
  anyone else.
• 27:07
  So I feel supported by this.
• 27:09
  Once you start finding that avatar, like, John was saying, like, they had time to double down
• 27:13
  on them, cater them speak their language, understand that community, I remember going to
• 27:18
  to to events and, I've learned very quickly when you're the only male and in a female
• 27:23
  audience when you first walk in the room, Everyone's like, who's the creep?
• 27:26
  Like, who's this weirdo?
• 27:28
  So you really quickly got to dispel that, but there was also a power when you are different
• 27:33
  than the community you're serving when you are the minority of 1, I was the only male and an
• 27:38
  all female audience, you can be embraced by audience because everyone's like, oh, I wanna
• 27:42
  be pals with Mike.
• 27:43
  I wanna show that I accept Mike.
• 27:45
  When you're a minority of a few, that's when it becomes a problem.
• 27:48
  I went to some events and there's like 2 or 3 male authors there.
• 27:51
  And now it's like the creep faction over there.
• 27:53
  No one would talk with us.
• 27:54
  So you start positioning yourself to be always a minority of 1.
• 27:58
  Present yourself to be the unique one.
• 28:00
  So I would go these events and say, hey.
• 28:02
  Can I just be the first person to speak before the other guys came?
• 28:05
  And then I was embraced again, and we can do this in our marketing.
• 28:08
  Once we know our avatar do something that no one else is doing.
• 28:11
  It's a different factor, so you feel like you're you're you're the you're the minority of
• 28:16
  1, and the community will embrace you.
• 28:19
  Then another stage of marketing is once you have your Uber fans and some people will really
• 28:23
  fall in love with the stuff you have, give them the script to promote it out there.
• 28:28
  They they wanna put the word out there, but they're just doing it on their own.
• 28:30
  Like, you gotta check out Melinda's stuff.
• 28:32
  Yeah.
• 28:32
  Melinda's amazing, and that's wonderful.
• 28:35
  But you can also give them a script and say, I appreciate your support so much.
• 28:38
  While we join, together as a street team and here's some things you can do.
• 28:42
  Now you have some rhythm going on automatic marketing.
• 28:45
  And the last thing I wanna share is there's a danger.
• 28:49
  Some businesses at the high stage get to the point where they say, you know what?
• 28:52
  All my opportunities come through client referrals.
• 28:54
  I'm so proud.
• 28:55
  100% of my opportunities come from client referrals.
• 28:58
  I think that's wonderful.
• 28:59
  That's an acknowledgement of the quality of your service or product.
• 29:01
  But also you're at the whim of your customers doing your marketing.
• 29:05
  So at the final stage of growth, if you will, marketing, don't stop marketing.
• 29:10
  This is when you double down.
• 29:11
  That reputation of clients is excellent, but you must find your platform, your medium, be it
• 29:16
  clubhouse or not, or email or not, But find your specific medium of geometry sharing, have
• 29:23
  your method there so that you can control flow of your leads.
• 29:27
  I love it.
• 29:28
  I love it.
• 29:28
  And I think you're exactly exactly right.
• 29:31
  Alright, John.
• 29:32
  I've got a question for you.
• 29:34
  Should I sell on my website, or should I sell on a marketplace?
• 29:39
  Yeah.
• 29:40
  That's an easy answer.
• 29:43
  Alright.
• 29:43
  Answer it for me then.
• 29:45
  Yeah.
• 29:45
  Wherever you are, I guarantee you the grass is always greener on the other side.
• 29:52
  Right?
• 29:53
  So there is no answer to that question.
• 29:55
  Everybody hates what they do and look at the other person's like, man, I should get one of
• 30:00
  those.
• 30:01
  Right?
• 30:01
  That's what it always is, but I'm gonna tell you it's it's probably 5050.
• 30:07
  Once you get, though, let say you've got marketplaces down.
• 30:11
  You've really you've you've you've built your business and it's growing and you've pretty
• 30:16
  much got a good share of the pie.
• 30:19
  Yes.
• 30:19
  You're gonna try to get more and more market share from being on that platform, but also at
• 30:24
  the same time, I think At some level, you wanna take about 10 to 15 percent of that effort and
• 30:31
  start putting it towards your own website and website sales.
• 30:35
  Right?
• 30:35
  If the the other way around, if you're doing everything on your website and it's jumping and
• 30:41
  it's moving hard, I think you should take 10 to 15% and put it over and look at marketplaces as
• 30:48
  long as that's something that you can do.
• 30:51
  So I I think it needs to be one of those things that's a mix because you never know, man.
• 30:57
  I mean, if if we never took the time to do Amazon and we just stayed where we were.
• 31:04
  I don't think we would have ever grew to the level that we did.
• 31:08
  Amazon was very instrumental in that right now.
• 31:11
  Shopify is doing major things.
• 31:13
  I'm looking at now putting a Shopify store together because, hey, they're doing some
• 31:19
  pretty good things over here.
• 31:21
  That might be the next move.
• 31:23
  One thing with ecommerce is the e.
• 31:27
  I'm
• 31:27
  gonna say that one more time.
• 31:29
  The thing about ecommerce is the e.
• 31:32
  The commerce automatically happens.
• 31:35
  Right?
• 31:35
  Commerce is as old as the Bible who are older than the Bible.
• 31:40
  Right?
• 31:40
  Because people were selling and trading things, you know, when they were in caves.
• 31:45
  The e part is electronic.
• 31:47
  Right?
• 31:49
  Obviously, but the deal is is that as the as we were talking before, as technology moves
• 31:55
  forward, it's going to change the way the commerce works.
• 32:00
  So there's you gotta be aware that nothing stays the same.
• 32:05
  In e commerce.
• 32:06
  It never stay.
• 32:07
  It's constantly moving from iteration to iteration.
• 32:12
  As computers get faster, we gotta get faster.
• 32:15
  As adadoption becomes mobile.
• 32:18
  We have to move with mobile.
• 32:20
  So that's the thing about e commerce.
• 32:22
  You wanna kind of be in all areas because before you know it, the the rest of the pack
• 32:27
  behind you are gonna catch up and leapfrog you into something else that you're not even paying
• 32:33
  attention to.
• 32:34
  Hey, Melinda.
• 32:36
  I I wanna flip the script on you.
• 32:37
  You you're a big promoter of online sales systems.
• 32:40
  How's that correlate?
• 32:41
  Well, when I think about online sales systems, to me, it always starts with the website.
• 32:47
  Like, if your website sucks, you don't really need to be out here doing anything else until
• 32:51
  you've that because that's your number one sales tool, and it's like the welcome mat into
• 32:57
  your business.
• 32:58
  Then after you get your website going, then it's like, okay.
• 33:01
  What is my content strategy?
• 33:03
  How am I gonna demonstrate my expertise and teach people what I have to offer?
• 33:08
  Even if you have a product based business, you need a content strategy.
• 33:11
  And I'm a it might I mean, I'm gonna ask you about that in a minute, John, but The other
• 33:16
  thing you've gotta think about then is social media.
• 33:19
  And when it comes to social media, I'm like, what are two platforms is enough?
• 33:24
  Even why you're doing 5 or 6 platforms.
• 33:26
  You're wasting your time.
• 33:28
  You you really only need I tell people all the time.
• 33:31
  I built my brand largely on Twitter.
• 33:35
  Like, went back, you know, at 08, when Twitter was one years old, I worked Twitter 9 to 5, 5
• 33:41
  days a week, like it was a job.
• 33:44
  And it didn't make me any money for almost 2 years.
• 33:49
  So I focused.
• 33:51
  I was consistent.
• 33:52
  I was helpful.
• 33:53
  I focused.
• 33:54
  You know, I shared other people's content before I even had a blog.
• 33:57
  And then when I started a blog, I would share my content out, but it was very I was very
• 34:03
  intentional about my content because I knew And but I was also intentional about the platform.
• 34:09
  We didn't do any other platforms but Twitter back then.
• 34:12
  And then eventually we branched to LinkedIn, then eventually we branch to Facebook.
• 34:17
  And, obviously, because I teach social media marketing, I'm on all six platforms because I
• 34:21
  have to be, but it's but when I built my business, that's not what I did.
• 34:25
  And so I'm glad that you asked me the question because I think it's important to tell people,
• 34:29
  listen, you can be a tycoon off of one platform.
• 34:34
  Don't feel like you gotta be doing all of them.
• 34:36
  But then the other thing, and the and the biggest thing that I think people miss is
• 34:40
  email.
• 34:42
  Right?
• 34:42
  I mean, because what I don't think people understand is that the first time somebody sees
• 34:46
  your offer, they're not very likely to buy.
• 34:50
  You gotta you gotta keep going after them and it takes, what, 7 to 30 touches to turn an
• 34:58
  online visitor into a customer unless you happen to catch somebody the day they need
• 35:03
  flowers and they find your flower shop.
• 35:05
  Okay.
• 35:06
  That happens.
• 35:06
  But the rest of us selling books and information.
• 35:09
  Forget about it.
• 35:10
  You I got to demonstrate for you than I'm the girl.
• 35:13
  I gotta demonstrate for you over and over again.
• 35:16
  That I can help you, that I can help you build your business, and that I was just like you.
• 35:21
  And this is what happened.
• 35:22
  You know, I gotta keep coming after you and demonstrating it and frankly loving on you.
• 35:28
  Right?
• 35:28
  Because the other thing about email is you gotta give away your best stuff free.
• 35:32
  Please don't think you're gonna give away mediocre stuff.
• 35:35
  And then somebody's gonna come back and buy from you.
• 35:38
  No.
• 35:39
  That's not how it works.
• 35:40
  So I think if you don't have those 4 pillars aligned, It doesn't you you think you go out
• 35:46
  here and buy ads and do all this other stuff.
• 35:48
  If your website isn't ready for visitors, focus there first.
• 35:53
  That that's what I think.
• 35:55
  Mhmm.
• 35:56
  But
• 35:56
  but but, John, I do wanna come after you because I wanna ask you about the whole The the
• 36:03
  marketing piece with the email, I mean, do people have to buy ads in order to sell online,
• 36:09
  or can you sell without ads?
• 36:11
  I mean, tell us the real deal.
• 36:13
  Come here's the real deal, man.
• 36:15
  I love organic traffic, but I can't grow organic traffic the way I can't pay traffic.
• 36:23
  Cause if I've got a ad that's running and it's making me money, I can throw as much money at
• 36:29
  that ad and blow it up overnight.
• 36:32
  I can't do that with organic.
• 36:34
  So there's a difference So it's like organic is almost like the duck, you know, feet under the
• 36:40
  water.
• 36:40
  You're gonna constantly tread.
• 36:42
  You wanna constantly tread those things.
• 36:44
  You wanna work the organic stuff, but at the same time, once you I use organic for testing.
• 36:53
  If I see something that's really catching on in organic, then I can turn that into an ad and I
• 37:00
  can't guarantee it, but almost guarantee that it's going to work.
• 37:04
  Right?
• 37:05
  So at the same time, I could look at something else that's trending just naturally and
• 37:10
  organically with other people's stuff.
• 37:14
  And I can turn that also into an ad.
• 37:17
  Throw some money at it, push it out, and it starts working.
• 37:21
  So I think if if if given between the two things, I kinda dig pay, but I think that's
• 37:29
  just because of the way, you know, I it's all about intention, man.
• 37:33
  If I can get you if I know that you are intending to buy a refrigerator and I sell
• 37:39
  refrigerators.
• 37:40
  All I gotta do is get my ad in front of people with that intention.
• 37:45
  And I'll sell some refrigerate versus trying to teach you about refrigeration and lines and
• 37:52
  which which square footage.
• 37:54
  You you know, I get it.
• 37:56
  That works too.
• 37:58
  Mhmm.
• 37:58
  Feel me?
• 37:59
  Right.
• 37:59
  Right.
• 38:00
  No.
• 38:00
  I think I I think it's
• 38:01
  I feel bad.
• 38:02
  No.
• 38:03
  No.
• 38:03
  I'm I'm I wanted you're the one I wanted to ask.
• 38:06
  Right?
• 38:06
  Like, who would who would be better to ask this question than you.
• 38:10
  Obviously, because I built a huge brand with a huge amount of organic search traffic, I have a
• 38:16
  different perspective on it.
• 38:17
  I never so you're not selling refrigerators.
• 38:19
  Who's selling information?
• 38:21
  Exactly.
• 38:22
  So if you sell information, it's about the person.
• 38:27
  It's about Melinda.
• 38:29
  Right?
• 38:29
  So Melinda has to be brought up as the expert.
• 38:33
  And once she's the expert, which you are, then people come to you about, hey.
• 38:39
  How do I start a business?
• 38:40
  That they ain't coming to me about shoelaces.
• 38:43
  Trust me.
• 38:45
  It's a cocktail shoelaces.
• 38:46
  Hey.
• 38:46
  Coming to me.
• 38:48
  Alright.
• 38:48
  So, Mike, I got a question for you.
• 38:50
  How do you think a small business owner should evaluate a marketing idea?
• 38:58
  Well, John said you you gotta test.
• 38:59
  I I love the test organic explode it through paid.
• 39:04
  Ironically, Jonah, I literally just bought a refrigerator.
• 39:07
  I mean, just bought refrigerator, which is kind of funny.
• 39:09
  And, one thing that that I noticed, I I bought an LG refrigerator because it makes round ice
• 39:15
  cubes.
• 39:15
  I had to make a nice bourbon on a Friday night, And that was the selling point.
• 39:20
  I think one of the things we have to understand is our customers don't buy on everything.
• 39:24
  Like John said, the square footage, the size of the line They buy on something specific that
• 39:28
  resonates with them.
• 39:30
  So we need to test early on and imply or or employ some form of measurement.
• 39:36
  There's a technique called keying.
• 39:38
  And, this is used by direct marketers all the time, but you can use it in anything.
• 39:41
  Facebook ads, anything.
• 39:42
  You can place a key what is responding to them, and we can do forms of split testing.
• 39:47
  So I could sell refrigerator and say it has round ice cubes.
• 39:51
  Another one could say stores a huge amount of food.
• 39:55
  And then I can key each one.
• 39:57
  So one goes to perhaps to one page of my website.
• 39:59
  The other one goes to a different page of my website.
• 40:01
  And measure which web page gets more traffic, that shows me which ad is working better.
• 40:07
  Always start low and let it grow.
• 40:10
  Don't try, you know, I wanna broadcast this out to 100,000 per prospective consumers and blow
• 40:15
  your wide on that.
• 40:17
  Instead, let's try a few organic folks.
• 40:19
  Let's try on a small level, see what's getting traction, and then you double down on your bet.
• 40:23
  But also you don't go all in So, you know, if I see that the more food storage is actually
• 40:28
  beating the ice around ice on a go and do some more investing here, But if it doesn't scale
• 40:34
  the way anticipated, I may throttle it back and try yet another variant, and you build your
• 40:39
  way.
• 40:39
  And just like anything else too, ads at a certain point marketing expires.
• 40:43
  Something that works for a period of time won't work forever.
• 40:46
  And sadly, I think a lot of businesses I interviewed oh, this ad was working.
• 40:50
  It should work on to into perpetuity.
• 40:52
  The more I put in, the more I get back.
• 40:54
  It's an ATM.
• 40:55
  No.
• 40:55
  They have a shelf life.
• 40:57
  Certain point, you sat trade the market with that positioning, that marketing, and now it's
• 41:01
  gonna start waning off and you have to try something new.
• 41:04
  Hey, Melinda.
• 41:06
  Yes.
• 41:07
  So I think you did really well with your with our pandemic time, and you did a real big
• 41:14
  overhaul of your book become your own boss in 12 months.
• 41:18
  So can you tell me what was the motivation and what's all that about?
• 41:23
  What's the what's the overall?
• 41:24
  What's changed?
• 41:26
  Well, for 1, my publisher wouldn't give me any additional pages to update my book.
• 41:32
  So I had to cut to add.
• 41:37
  So and then I had to rewrite the stuff that we were keeping.
• 41:41
  So, really, there's only 8 chapters in the new book that are like the old book.
• 41:47
  The rest of this thing is very different.
• 41:49
  So We cut 6 chapters, added 6 chapters, updated 5 or 6 more.
• 41:55
  So it's a very, very different book, but what made me do that was because what happened to
• 42:00
  everybody in the pandemic?
• 42:02
  You know, all of these businesses that just went down got closed.
• 42:05
  So many African American and women owned businesses just got hammered.
• 42:09
  And I was looking around going, oh my gosh.
• 42:12
  Like, I have to retool because I'm looking at what everyone needs.
• 42:17
  And what I saw was that people weren't positioned to sell online got killed because
• 42:22
  people were not willing to come into your store.
• 42:24
  You know, if you weren't set up for takeout orders, you couldn't figure that stuff out, you
• 42:29
  really got hurt.
• 42:30
  And so what I really updated about the book was like, oh, the mark getting stuff.
• 42:35
  So really figuring out your target customer.
• 42:38
  We have a brand new chapter on how to build a social media brand.
• 42:42
  We also added a chapter on selling online, and I went hard in this chapter.
• 42:47
  I talked about how to sell on your own website and how to sell on a platform and how to buy
• 42:54
  ads, even how to buy ads on Amazon.
• 42:57
  Because I don't even know that people knew you could buy ads on Amazon.
• 43:00
  Right?
• 43:00
  So we've really tried to give people the stuff that people were struggling with.
• 43:07
  And then I just went back and thought about over my 22 years in business and coaching
• 43:13
  entrepreneurs for the last 14 years, What are the things that I consistently saw people
• 43:17
  struggling with?
• 43:18
  Sales systems.
• 43:20
  So I built a chapter in the book how to develop a sales process.
• 43:24
  Because I really I I think a lot of people don't know how to generate leads.
• 43:30
  They don't have sales funnels.
• 43:32
  They don't understand value ladder and figuring out what all your offers are and the upsells
• 43:38
  and downsales are down.
• 43:40
  Most people are, like, trying to have a little newsletter.
• 43:42
  Right?
• 43:42
  You know what I mean?
• 43:43
  Like, they're but there's a whole strategy behind email and follow-up and then ads.
• 43:49
  Right?
• 43:49
  And so I really because marketing is now so much more complicated.
• 43:54
  It used to be like you kinda had to have a website.
• 43:56
  You had to have a decent website, but that was pretty much it.
• 43:59
  Now you gotta understand SEO.
• 44:01
  You have to understand content.
• 44:02
  You gotta be using the right social media platforms, and you gotta understand email.
• 44:07
  And you do, at some point, have to be in a position if I ask.
• 44:11
  She told me before that she was having storms.
• 44:15
  Yeah.
• 44:15
  I got the freeze on my side too.
• 44:17
  Did you?
• 44:18
  Okay.
• 44:19
  But while she's while she's frozen real quick, let me ask you about the dad myth.
• 44:23
  Because I wanna know more about the dad.
• 44:26
  Yeah.
• 44:26
  So when I was writing Get Different, I found there's 3 elements effective marketing, and I'd
• 44:31
  love to have a little dialogue back and forth on this, John.
• 44:34
  So the 3 key elements of effective marketing stands, dad stands for different.
• 44:41
  First, if you do what's common among your competition, if everyone's marking to the
• 44:46
  client base the same way, it's white noise.
• 44:48
  It's it's invisible.
• 44:49
  We can't hear it.
• 44:50
  So do something that's different and, the prospect will see it.
• 44:53
  It's just like actually how we are wired as humanity.
• 44:56
  The second part, the a stands for attract.
• 44:59
  Attract means, you know, just being different is is catches attention, but doesn't mean that
• 45:04
  it compels people.
• 45:05
  I could dress like Boza Clown for this this meetup we did, and I'm sure everyone would have
• 45:09
  noticed, oh, who invited Bozzo, but is that attractive, or is that repelling people?
• 45:13
  They'd say, you know, this is not for me.
• 45:16
  So we need to speak also to what the audience desires.
• 45:19
  And that's serving a need, serving interest, invoking curiosity, or even entertaining And
• 45:25
  the last d stands for direct.
• 45:27
  Direct is give the prospect a specific, action to take, and it needs to be something that's
• 45:33
  reasonable.
• 45:34
  So, John, if you were looking to say buy a car or something, and I'm like, hey.
• 45:38
  You come into my lot.
• 45:39
  I'm like, John, give me a $100,000, and we'll find your dream car.
• 45:42
  You'd be like, screw you.
• 45:44
  I mean, that's such a big risk, but if instead you were looking to buy a car and I said, hey,
• 45:48
  would you be willing to give me your cell number I'll start taking pictures of our
• 45:51
  inventory here so we can find your dream car.
• 45:54
  That may be a reasonable direct, but there is a currency exchange there.
• 45:58
  I'm giving you information to help you and your decision.
• 46:00
  You're giving me information so I may communicate with you.
• 46:02
  And then we try to move toward the final transaction where you do get what you want,
• 46:06
  your dream car, I get what I want, which is my commission.
• 46:09
  What I found in marketing, if you're missing any of these dad elements, any of these 3
• 46:14
  elements, you are decent to to cripple your marketing.
• 46:18
  I've seen great ads.
• 46:19
  Like like, I've been to a website, so I'm sure I'm curious actually if you've seen this.
• 46:22
  I go to a website and the call to action button says learn more.
• 46:27
  The whole reason I went to the website was to learn more.
• 46:30
  It kinda confuses me.
• 46:32
  So you have to have these 3 elements to be successful.
• 46:35
  That's funny.
• 46:36
  You know, learn more came from Facebook ads.
• 46:40
  Right?
• 46:40
  That's the first time I ever seen that button.
• 46:43
  And initially, that was the best performing button.
• 46:47
  Was to learn more versus, you know, buy now or any of those on Facebook.
• 46:52
  So I find that very Interesting.
• 46:55
  Somebody had to tell those guys, hey.
• 46:57
  Put learn more on there.
• 46:58
  That's the worst thing you should do.
• 47:01
  I mean, not on the site itself.
• 47:03
  No.
• 47:03
  Nice to bring you to the site.
• 47:05
  Right.
• 47:06
  Right.
• 47:06
  It makes sense to get this site.
• 47:07
  But then, Pete, now I'm looping on the site.
• 47:09
  So give people a specific action.
• 47:11
  I'm actually curious when it comes to to you with when it comes to advertising, marketing,
• 47:16
  when do you know your marketing has run its course when it's time to wind it down.
• 47:22
  Well, it depends on each platform.
• 47:24
  I mean, you know, if you are tracking, it's it's your KPIs.
• 47:29
  Right?
• 47:29
  I mean, when you're tracking performance, once you start seeing this decline, it's like, okay,
• 47:36
  I could buy this customer for a dollar.
• 47:39
  Once it's starting to go up to $2, $3.
• 47:42
  At some point, it doesn't become profitable.
• 47:44
  Yeah.
• 47:45
  So advertising does have a life time cycle, you know, and you just have to know and be
• 47:53
  watching, like, you know, for every hundred people that it touches, How many times does it
• 47:58
  have to touch them?
• 47:59
  After three times, does it just they don't pay any attention anymore?
• 48:03
  It's like the Applebee song.
• 48:04
  Right now, it's driving me absolutely crazy, and that's because it's working.
• 48:10
  Right?
• 48:10
  Yeah.
• 48:10
  Either you love it or you hate it.
• 48:12
  Right?
• 48:12
  Yeah.
• 48:12
  But at some point, they can't play that forever.
• 48:15
  It's we've heard it so many times, you know, and they're gonna know when that does based on,
• 48:21
  you know, whatever key performance indicators they are.
• 48:24
  So you just wanna be checking out those numbers, how many times people see it, how many
• 48:29
  people actually take action, how many people not only take action, but then buy, right, and
• 48:35
  all of that through that funnel, if you're if you're keeping up with that, you'll be able to
• 48:40
  tell.
• 48:41
  I I like, John, that spend versus return.
• 48:43
  I I got another question for you.
• 48:45
  Oh, no.
• 48:46
  Okay.
• 48:46
  I there's there's There's gotta be common mistakes.
• 48:49
  So maybe I'm overspending and not getting a return.
• 48:52
  What are the popular common mistakes you see out there on the different selling platforms?
• 48:56
  Like, when you're overspending?
• 48:59
  Well, I see people overspend.
• 49:00
  I'm saying is there other, kinda
• 49:02
  top 5 times?
• 49:03
  Overspending.
• 49:04
  Yeah.
• 49:05
  Do you see other kind of mistakes people are making?
• 49:08
  Yeah.
• 49:08
  I think if if you you want to I think people are are are way too focused on attraction
• 49:17
  sometimes, and they are trying to be attractive to people.
• 49:20
  And not repelling enough.
• 49:22
  Oh, interesting.
• 49:23
  Right.
• 49:24
  There's certain people.
• 49:25
  I don't want you're not gonna be a good client for me.
• 49:28
  So you wanna have that understanding too and make sure that your advertising is repelling
• 49:34
  the people that are it's not a good fit for.
• 49:38
  And I don't think people spend enough time on that as well.
• 49:41
  I love that.
• 49:42
  Yeah.
• 49:43
  I love that.
• 49:43
  Yeah.
• 49:43
  Because I
• 49:44
  I can see that, if you if you try to serve everyone.
• 49:48
  You're really serving no one.
• 49:49
  Yeah.
• 49:49
  If you speak to that Betty that you were talking about earlier, now she she knows you're
• 49:54
  talking to her.
• 49:55
  Any other common mistakes you see when it comes to selling platforms?
• 50:00
  I mean, yeah, you gotta you you you you wanna know your keywords You wanna make sure that
• 50:05
  your descriptions are stuffed with the keywords.
• 50:10
  It needs to be easy to read.
• 50:12
  Yeah.
• 50:12
  There you go.
• 50:13
  That's the other thing.
• 50:14
  Everything has to be at a 5th grade level.
• 50:17
  Every that's a huge.
• 50:19
  People try to always talk like they know what they're talking about way up a year, and most
• 50:25
  people need to be spoken to way here.
• 50:29
  Yeah.
• 50:29
  Yeah.
• 50:29
  It's fine.
• 50:30
  I I noticed, someone told me, like, your website should be like a billboard.
• 50:35
  When people are cruising in a highway at, you know, seventy miles an hour.
• 50:39
  You you've got one second glimpse up there, and you gotta get the message across That's
• 50:43
  basically people saying websites for a couple seconds before they're making a cognitive
• 50:47
  decision should I stay or should I go?
• 50:49
  And it sounds like simple talk clear and concise, easy and legible wins that.
• 50:56
  Anything that's, you know, these big artsy artsy words, you're gonna lose opportunity.
• 50:59
  Yeah.
• 51:00
  Every time.
• 51:01
  Yeah.
• 51:01
  Every time.
• 51:02
  Because well, I mean, there I'm sure there are I mean, if we're talking about rocketry to
• 51:07
  rocket scientists, then that's You know.
• 51:10
  That that's the one instance here.
• 51:12
  That's the one time.
• 51:14
  Hey.
• 51:15
  Why don't we do this?
• 51:15
  I I think we just gotta give a big shout to Melinda she lost us due to this this horrible
• 51:19
  storm that's tearing through the Philadelphia area.
• 51:21
  Yep.
• 51:22
  Her book is become your own boss in 12 months.
• 51:24
  It's the revised and expanded edition I'm looking at right now.
• 51:27
  I just wanna invite Everness Listening Live.
• 51:29
  If you're listening to the recording, I ask that you buy a copy of this book even if you
• 51:33
  already have it because it's a great gift all these seasons are coming to friends, other
• 51:38
  business acquaintances, perhaps when your family starting a business.
• 51:41
  But I'll also tell you this, if we collectively get a copy of Melinda's book now, it triggers
• 51:47
  the Amazon engines.
• 51:48
  That's how the algorithms work on all these buyer sites.
• 51:51
  If they see people buying, they start marketing it to buy more.
• 51:54
  So honestly, it will serve you Doctor.
• 51:57
  Darr, you can't beat Melinda's book, but also it will serve Melinda.
• 52:00
  So let's do this together.
• 52:01
  I'm actually gonna buy my copy.
• 52:03
  I'm clicking on it right now.
• 52:05
  Do
• 52:05
  it.
• 52:05
  3rd copy.
• 52:07
  Oh, you know what?
• 52:08
  It's my card I got.
• 52:09
  You get you get to be on this call if you do three.
• 52:12
  I'm a little bit late.
• 52:13
  Whoops.
• 52:14
  I almost shifted to to the wrong address there.
• 52:16
  I got it.
• 52:17
  So it is officially in my car and
• 52:20
  Okay.
• 52:21
  I'm gonna I'm gonna dovetail on that.
• 52:23
  Once you do that, just like we're talking about the Amazon, you know, triggers, put in a
• 52:29
  review.
• 52:30
  We want an honors review, but reviews really, really help to position books well on Amazon.
• 52:38
  So definitely do that after you buy, after you read, give Amazon a review on the book.
• 52:46
  Cool.
• 52:47
  Now, Mike, your book.
• 52:48
  Come on.
• 52:49
  You're just, you know Oh, I got right now.
• 52:53
  This is my book.
• 52:54
  If if you feel that some of the stuff I shared may serve you.
• 52:57
  This is available for you.
• 52:59
  It's also at Amazon.
• 52:59
  Wherever Melinda sells her books, I'm in her coattails trying to sell mine.
• 53:03
  So, whoops, you can find it on Amazon too.
• 53:07
  But really, today was all about Melinda.
• 53:09
  Per content, if you're looking to start a business build a business, It's the book to
• 53:12
  get.
• 53:13
  Become your own boss in 12 months.
• 53:15
  Melinda Emerson, a personal friend of both of ours, just a extraordinary human being, someone
• 53:20
  who knows her shit.
• 53:22
  Yeah.
• 53:23
  We love you, Melinda.
• 53:25
  Alright, John.
• 53:26
  Take care.
• 53:26
  See you, Melinda.
• 53:27
  If you see this.
• 53:31
  Thank you for listening to the Small Biz Chat podcast with Melinda Emerson.
• 53:36
  For more resources and small business success strategies, visit succeed as your own boss.com.
• 53:43
  Subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and join us next Wednesday.