Latest / The Loop Podcast: Peptides, Longevity & Women’s Wellness / EP 72: Midlife Crisis or Midlife Awakening? The Psychology of Starting Over After 40 | Dr. Sarah Sarkis

Transcript

EP 72: Midlife Crisis or Midlife Awakening? The Psychology of Starting Over After 40 | Dr. Sarah Sarkis · The Loop Podcast: Peptides, Longevity & Women’s Wellness

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Loop Podcast.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_02: The content shared here is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Throughout the show, I'll be sharing my own story and personal wellness tools and hacks that have worked for me and my guests will share what's worked for them.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: These conversations are based on personal experience and are not a substitute for professional medical guidance.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Always consult your healthcare provider before sharing any new treatment, supplement, or wellness routine.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be exploring mostly peptide-related therapies and other emerging health tools.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: But remember, everyone's health needs are different, and what works for one person may not be right for another.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: By listening, you agree that neither I nor any guests in this podcast is offering personalized medical advice.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for being here and let's keep learning and growing together.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Luke Podcast, where we dive deep into all things health, wellness, and fitness.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Plus the fascinating world of peptides.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Each episode, we bring you insights from experts and guests from across the industry to help you optimize your health and longevity.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Seth.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's jump in.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: All right, on today's podcast, we have Dr.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sarkis back, the in-house drink, as I like to call her.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've listened to our other podcasts, I think you're gonna find that our banter, she's just so real and raw.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: She says how she is.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: She swears.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: I feel that she's not like a typical psychiatrist or psychologist that you would work with.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: She calls it like it is.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: So we're talking a lot about the art of a pivot and midlife and what is it like to make a transition or what's holding you back?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's oftentimes fear of why we don't make a move, or you're watching everybody else and you're saying, why, why can't I do this?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: So we've talked about what it's like and we're calling it a midlife awakening versus a midlife crisis.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope a lot of you can relate to us is when you're feeling this little itch where there's maybe something more for you, or you're wanting to find a purpose or a passion, or the kids have left the house, or you're just having more time on your hands and you want to do something.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: It is gonna be a time where I feel like leaning into a podcast like this might give you the courage just to take one step forward.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we talk about just not staying in place and how important it is to have forward movement and intentions on kind of what you're doing, and you just never want to be standing still.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, Sarah, Dr.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sargis will be at the retreat.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of talk about her role in the retreat this year and just I hope you enjoy it.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: We had so much fun.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know a lot of you can relate to this, so with no further ado, let's welcome Dr.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sargis.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna jump right in.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the Lip Away Podcast, guys.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I have certain people that come on on a regular, and it's interesting.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've I don't know, Sarah, if you listened to my podcast with um Dr.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Zelkin, the plastic surgeon.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think you'd appreciate our banter.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think you've got very similar humor to him, but you're also a regular.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so we have in-house shrink here, as we like to call ourselves, right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Dr.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sarkis.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought twofold is I am so honored, and I tell her this that Dr.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Sarkis is gonna be part of my Aspen retreat.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if anyone is on the fringe of going, I'm telling you, this is going to be so epic.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, why don't we do a little bit around kind of what we're gonna be focused on in the retreat?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Not too much because I want to give it away.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I also have a lot on the midlife pivot that I want to talk about because I've been through it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my demographics area is really interesting.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's mostly women.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not that sure.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's shocking.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: But 86% of women between the ages of 40 to 65.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think this is the craziest part.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: What percentage do you think are Amex users?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now this is gonna Oh, what a what percentage do you think?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, we didn't know until our bank told us that they were shocked.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: But what percentage 100?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh huh.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no, no.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: But um, well, okay, we're 40% Amex users, which is extremely high.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it just tells you about our demic.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I would have thought.
• 4:03
  unknown: Yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what does that insinuate to you about the 40 to 60?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because most Amex cards.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing a Rorschach on the Amex juice right now.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get under.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go grogue for a second.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure everyone's gonna look it up in chat.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have not done homework because I didn't think we were talking about this today, but um I would guess that Amex cards come with a fee.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And many of them you have to pay off in its entirety.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they also should for every credit card anyway.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, ladies and gentlemen.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: If your parents didn't teach you that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then also I think there's a higher higher interest, there's a lot higher interest rate.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: So the the long or the short, they're usually a more sophisticated buyer who also is in a higher um socioeconomical, economic level.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, not that not that that's gonna change what we're talking about today.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: I just saw you little stats out of my business.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: So here and there, and that's a little what we're talking about.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: But let's talk about the Aspen Retreat.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: And let's talk about what we you and I have shared offline, and I know you've done some thinking on your end of what we're how how you're gonna play in this beautiful world that we're gonna be creating for three days.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to um do this together and be with you.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I feel like it's like a long time.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, making it.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, we already have plans.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: She's gonna come earlier.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we're gonna hike about hike.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna go on a fast hike, a great dinner, we're gonna spend a lot of bonding time, which I'm really excited about.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, totally, totally.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I mean, so when you invited me to join the retreat, I was super flattered.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm of course always a yes for anything that you're doing.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and midlife, I mean, I'm in midlife as well.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: You and I are the same age.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And um midlife is this period of time.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: So even like before I kind of had the career iteration that I have now, like when I was running up private therapeutic practice, um, you know, many of my patients were women in midlife, so between 40 to 60.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um it has its own psychological kind of profile to it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And each decade, the 20s, the 30s, by the way, starting at birth, but each decade kind of has like signature features that I find roll out inside that decade.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, midlife is a very particular sort of rollout, and it does involve for the vast majority of us, um, for the women, it involves a major hormonal metabolic brain, like a full system upgrade.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we're gonna rebrain.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so funny.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was about to say, was it a reboot?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I hope she says upgrade.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's an upgrade.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so what what my part that I'm still like, you know, thinking through and creating, but is that I really want to, in the time that I have with people, I want to facilitate a conversation around the stories we bring to midlife.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the stories about ourselves, about our relationships, about our work, about our worth.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um all the stories that we bring to midlife and how we collect them, how they shape us, how they really sort of dictate a lot of our behavior and our belief systems, and then really have people be super intentional about whether or not they actually agree with those stories.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if they do, how are they gonna double down on it?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if they don't, what are we gonna do about that?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because those kinds of gaps between what we believe and what we want from a chapter in our life are not benign.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: We have to close those gaps, right?
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of what you and I wanted to create overall for people, is that, and you're, you know, as the person who's running the whole vision, you know, they have a whole weekend they're gonna go on that I think really um provides them with different lenses, whether it's the human design, is that that appropriate?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, human design, or the next day that's gonna really look at um, you know, wellness and metabolic health through peptides and other lifestyle interventions that other you and other people are running.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's kind of what people are gonna get is like really looking at the person they're bringing into midlife and how to be intentional about influencing and crafting that narrative.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and to but to that point is interesting, it's just even getting yourself to something like this retreat, right?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: In middle life, in any any stage of your life, to pick yourself and say, okay, I'm gonna leave my family, my job, whatever.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna spend some money.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: I have to, you know, a good amount of money and to invest in myself.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're also the point is that it's not selfish, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's a lot of stories we tell.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's selfish.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now my partner Well, that will come up in our work that we're gonna do.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, partners suck with the kids.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: If they have self-care and recovery and self-identity in a basket of selfish behavior, that in and of itself is a belief that will have shaped their life up to that point.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And midlife is a perfect time to reconstruct those kinds of beliefs, specifically because of the hormonal changes that are occurring.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we have access to all these different emotional experiences and points of view that previously we may not have had access to.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then also really being around other women and that are not your peers or not your friends or not your family.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at the end of the day, you learn a lot from everybody else, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: In the journey.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: I actually did a big pivot and I had to postpone my IRL, my big loop event that was supposed to be this past Saturday.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And for a couple of reasons why we decided to pivot, but it was a really big decision.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had a full sponsor, of course.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: I had everyone paid, and really the weather has been super.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not for for the listeners, like Steph isn't somebody who's like loosey goosey with her commitments.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: If she says something, like she follows through.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: So this is super interesting.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: If you see my garage, by the way.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: This is a real pivot.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you see my garage, it looks like I'm about to have a huge event.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've got poppy soda everywhere, and I've got Laird Hamilton a little bit.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: So my garage is gonna look like this for a long time.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: But what's interesting, kind of coming around to it, a big piece is that I don't have my social media, and so it's very, very hard to promote parts of it.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: A, and then the second piece was the weather has been so hot here, and the the venue wanted to move it inside.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, the whole integrity of the event right now is to keep it on this lawn.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: No one wants to sit in extensive heat at you know, 10:30, 11 in a panel.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a lot of couple, you know, not a couple of things that kind of led us.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: But what came out of it, Sarah, was beautiful was there were six women who were flying in.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them were my coaches, a lot of them are my coaches, but some of them were not.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so I basically said if anyone's flying in for this, I still want to host something.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I ended up with these six women, and we had a wonderful afternoon, and we talked everything from midlife to peptides to, you know, one came on my podcast, we went on a boat, and then we had dinner together.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it reminded me, and I I want to talk about this today, a little bit of a pivot, is that I used to remember living in Hawaii that I would any excuse to get off, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, that sounds perfect.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna sit on a board of a private equity group and I'm gonna meet once a month.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Does that totally make sense?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not, but it got me off.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was looking for the invitation to go and experience something more, you know, whatever that would be, you know, with smart people, I was yearning.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought to myself, is I know a lot of these women are really excited to come to Newport Beach and to leave where they are.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I know they still want a reason to come.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'm gonna cancel this, I still want them to be able to look at their husband, their partner, whoever, and say, I still want to go, there's a reason to go.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because that was me at one point.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was such, I was so fulfilled by that 24 hours with, or not even 24 hours, whole afternoon with this group of women, reminding myself why I'm doing this, you know, reminding myself what road we're on, what lives we're changing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it was wonderful.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: But so many of us are in that pivot of, okay, what's next?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be part of something.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't want to be a stay-at-home mom anymore, but I want to be part of my kids.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to talk today about kind of the life pivot and what you're seeing, and we're seeing in middle-aged women saying, okay, looking in the mirror, maybe and saying, I don't recognize what I see anymore, or I want more in my life.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: I want a sense of purpose outside of my family.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's the two can coexist, right?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: When what does that look like when you must when you have that urge, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: You and I pivoted big time, you know.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: I basically jumped off a cliff and changed my whole life.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people know my story, but I want to use today to talk about kind of what we see.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if you are feeling in that, you know, feeling that urge, that need, how do we encourage somebody to lean into that, right?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And lean into there is a beautiful chapter on the other side when you're feeling that restlessness of, hey, there's gotta be more, there's gotta be something that I want to pursue or learn more about or be involved in a community even more.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do a deep dive.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what are your thoughts on the other?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say that I would say that the people that are answering a call to adventure like this, or like you were well, like, you know, when we would chat back then and you'd be like, I don't know, this is it like even in my wheelhouse, and you would always come back to you, like it doesn't, it doesn't matter.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's forward movement.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, the answer to like any phase of our life where maybe we feel like a little bit uncertain or stuck is always just just forward movement.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's why, you know, people will be like, what do you do first thing in the morning?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And when when psychologists you're trying to be cheeky, they'll be like, make your bed.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: They don't actually mean make your bed, they mean physically do some action that you know changes from sleep time, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, anybody who's coming to the retreat, or anybody who's listening and decides they want to come, and we'd love to have you, um, they're already in the path.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're doing the things, right?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, that's a huge question.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do I see at this time coming forward for women?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'll sort of, I won't get specific because we can, you can delive on specific things.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe this is an easy way to look at it, sir, too, not to interrupt, is it used to be called a crisis, a midlife crisis.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the men have it, the women have it, it's midlife crisis.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: So we're calling it an awakening.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's probably a good, you know, takeoff place.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Is like it's in a history of time, you hear about these midlife crisis that men and women have.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: What are they truly?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then how do you lean into them so they're a positive upgrade, not a crisis?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And how do we encourage people to like okay, yeah, get into it?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because I I think it's great.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so I would say this.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we used to call it like a midlife crisis or a nervous breakdown or whatever.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and we definitely want to rebrand it.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I because I've spent so much of my adult life, 25 years, like really in the trenches of mental health.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do always like to be realistic because I don't, yeah, I don't have the luxury being a professional to sort of like be poly and ish.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there are some times where it is a breakdown.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: There are some times where it is a real crisis.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always like to be realistic about that, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: But for the vast majority of us, for the vast majority of us, statistically speaking, midlife for women is uncomfortable.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of things converge, okay?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um hormonally, you're in the largest fluctuation of your life, except for adolescence.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's not nothing, okay.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that interacts with a whole neurochemistry, a metabolic chemistry, a cognitive style, energy in terms of like, you know, uh people experience burnout or a brain fog or less energy.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So these are real changes that are occurring.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't want to gaslight people inadvertently by being Pollyanna-ish about what they're experiencing, right?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm always trying to toe the line of like, I hear you, and P.S.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I believe you.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also living it, right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So as are you, we're we are, we are the poster children for what middle age as a female is, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, right.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So what I want people to hear is like it is a big time of change.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's hormonally, that's um there's that, right?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then that interacts with the whole body.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: But also, if you had a family, probably that family is developing to a stage of independence where your relationship with mothering is in transition.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Then your relationship with mothering changes your relationship with parenting, and it changes the relationship you have with the co-parent and the needs and the um sort of unspoken rules of conduct that governed when you had small children together, right?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of our us find that our intimate relationships change.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a huge landscape of change in front of us, and I always like to normalize that uncertainty, discomfort, awkwardness, even just like feeling not great, are part of the landscape.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I never want to sell somebody a bunch of bullshit by saying, we can make you not, like I should say for me, from the psychological lane.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've never made somebody not feel a certain right.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: What we can do, we can do a few things.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: We can learn a bunch of skills mental, so neck up, cognitive skills.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's what reframing it as an upgrade or an awakening versus a breakdown, right?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or a crisis.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's cognitive reframe.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: So we can do neck up skills, and we can also do neck down meditation, exercise, breath work, a thousand different things, which will kind of uncover your own kind of profile and tendency for that when we get to aspen.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we can do neck down things to make some of the discomfort more tolerable.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Notice I didn't say decrease the discomfort.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: We're increasing our tolerance to hear the messages that our body, brain, and mind are telling us.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we're choosing to see them as messages versus things we have to suppress and get rid of in order to move forward.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, no, this is we're integrating it in, right?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to increase our tolerance for discomfort.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the things we can do.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Second thing is community.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's what you're touching base on.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is not a small thing.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Having a community of people who are all striving for a similar sense of um knowing themselves and intentionally authoring their future, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big deal.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Motivation-wise, feeling seen and heard, having a support network, all of the above, check, check, and check.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really stuff, like what you do probably better than anybody else that I know is you create that.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you've, you know, always been able to do that in your various endeavors, right?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would say the third thing that um we can do is we can um this is sort of in air quotes, but uh we can come up with a plan, yeah, right?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: A plan for how you want to address what you want to address and sort of to be realistic about what we can expect from the journey, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing I want uh people to hear about midlife is that it is not necessarily smooth sailing, um, but it's not pathologic either.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: It it just is a time of massive uh change, and a lot of that change is uncomfortable, and it requires literally upgrading what previously worked for us.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think sometimes that things that were whispers become roars, right?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like you get to the point of like, I can't ignore this.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: I can't.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot about what I try to do in my community and on this podcast is inspire somebody or just say, hey, listen, if you're you're not alone if you're feeling this, or if you are feeling that you need to make a shift or make a change, or where do you feel like you can get support in that?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because it can be extremely scary.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And also we know this.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: When you start changing, your partner's like, what the hell is happening?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that it makes them feel uncomfortable.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: It makes sometimes in partnerships, in families, when somebody is stretching and growing, the people around them are like, What are you doing?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: Come back to the, you know, come back here.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Where are you going?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get too far.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: I feel it a lot.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, with that growth, sometimes it will pull somebody back in and say, You're right, what was I thinking?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: But guess what?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Then the roar eventually gets louder, is how I've I've experienced it myself.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I've seen it with my clients.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, especially, you know, even it breaks down to peptides.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds sounds silly, but it's, you know, what are you doing?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden your partner is like, what are you doing?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: And why all of a sudden do you look so good or you feel better?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now you have all this energy, and I'm left behind.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: You lost your mind.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: So there's, I think, a lot of different angles and things that happen when you start to change and grow that might pull you back and say, uh-oh, do not go there.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: Do not go there because you're getting out of my comfort zone.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I would say this too.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, because we get into this realm very easily as women, because we're sort of um, it's like a fish doesn't know they're in water.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we're just kind of like raised in this environment of to like to think um in perfection and like doing it perfectly, right?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing I would say is first is expect.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So in any if we looked at our life like a topographical map and we could uh zero in like you can on a QuickBooks, you could be like, I want to see my uh, I want to see my metrics from this date to this date.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And same thing, like if we did that for our life, okay, it is a series of three things.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: You always see three things present in any charted length of time with human beings.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: You see growth, that's what we love.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: We're addicted to it.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: We love growth, okay.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: We see plateau, so not much is happening, kind of okay, and anybody who's had a kid sees you have a second kid?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you see these plateaus and regressions, and then the third thing that we see is regressions, okay, where we actually go backwards.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I would want people to know is that in any period of your life, you're gonna have a combination of all three.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's what we do inside of those moments, literally what we think and feel tell ourselves, the way we frame it, how we get back up, that dictates whether the trend line goes like this and change or goes like this.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, what I would first say is you are gonna get pulled back in.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you are partnered, you have children, you come from a family.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, see how I'm including everybody because none of us hatch.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so if you are inside of a family system, you are part of an intricate dance for which you have fingerprints all over that crime scene, and so does everybody else inside of it.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you are naturally in the process of change, and especially if it's radical change, which by the way happens one tiny unsexy step at a time.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: But even if it's radical change, you will see that you will get pulled back in.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then it becomes about how do you talk to yourself when you get pulled back in?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: How do you communicate with your partner?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: How do you handle if your partner is threatened by your growth?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, how do you handle all of it?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you're anything, if your children, sometimes children are very taken aback by a parent's change.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, right.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I saw it, Sarah, with just going on Instagram.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I started loop, my girls were like, um, uh, you're embarrassing, what are you doing?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: Want to hear one funny thing, just to this point, because as as you see when change does happen.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I decided to dabble in TikTok.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: I actually love TikTok right now, and I'm gonna tell you why.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious from a psychologist's perspective on this.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: So, because I can't even have a burner account on Instagram, like I'm off.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I used on TikTok just watching, and I started to really like the long format.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I do like that it TikTok is not what it is, but I've never been on.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh god, you're gonna I want you to get on TikTok.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Just from like just for You're the one that got me on Instagram.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: So likely this is.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think you should not only do I shop there, great shopping, Sarah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I like I don't need that.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: I like the long format where it's like it'll be a clip of a podcast, but it'll be it could be four minutes long.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, okay, thank you, Huberman.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to listen to three hours.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: I it curated me on peptides with Huberman, and I got three minutes.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I need.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Fascinating.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, he did he gave some great, he great gave some great stuff about peptides on his most he's leaning, he's leaning in, which I I really appreciate.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And he's being doctors.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: He's doing it in his highly educated, incredibly thorough, yes, incredibly OCD way.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um and thank God we have minds like that out there that do.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I like that piece of it, is it's you can really, really curate it.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you can get the shit off you don't want, but you can really call in things you do.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's longer format, which I like.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: I also like that, like I like Tony Robbins, I like aspirational people, like I'll get quotes.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, like for me, I was just, you know, that was where I was landing.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then I thought, well, if I can't be on Instagram, I'm just gonna get on TikTok.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm now on TikTok, learning about TikTok very, very different from Instagram.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm having a blast.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where I think as an in a midlife pivot is first of all, I don't think anyone I know is on TikTok.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: So the demographic is very different.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm showing up their very different part of myself because to me, it's like I'm talking to, I don't know, anybody who wants to listen to me.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know enough about the platform to know what it's gonna like.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to figure out the algorithm.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm having a lot of fun with it because it's it's a big experiment.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: But this is what's interesting is so I the there's a couple of things that have gone pretty viral, I think, within the TikTok world, not crazy viral, but like I've done pretty well for being on there for a short short time.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a there's a little clip of my boyfriend and I.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I basically was kind of saying, Oh, you know, some people call us a superhero.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: We look like superheroes in this photo or something.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I started talking about what it's like to be in partnership where you support each other and the amount of hate I got, I love.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it is, it's like, oh, you're a narcissist.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh gosh, okay, you don't even know me.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, you're coming on this platform to like, it was great.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: The best part is I look, you know who rebuttals for me is my 16-year-old daughter.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Someone goes, Well, I don't, we don't really care.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, she writes back, she goes, Well, you cared enough to comment on it.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought to myself, Wait, so this is Maddie.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maddie.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Maddie is my she, I mean, she will, I mean, the most loyal person.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: She will fight.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: She always has been.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, she was always super um attuned to you.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: She's very attuned.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: She's and I would like JP and I started laughing.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: She's on there defending.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I love her.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm having a blast.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, wow, this is so interesting.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: An old version of me could not handle this.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually think it's funny.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the people that are commenting, I think it's actually hilarious.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's their story, it's not true.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then to have my daughter on there too, because there is also so much positive.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: This happened to be something that I was just, then I started having fun.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm responding back and I'm rebutting, and I'm just having a field day with it because I might get taken down tomorrow, for all I know, and I'm having a blast.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I think my point, and I'm gonna land this damn plane, is there has been an evolution of who I am because I'm laughing at myself right now on TikTok that the fact that I'm even on TikTok.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Here is my daughter who was so embarrassed of me at one point, is now on the platform defending me in the cutest way.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that I'm also at a place in my life where I can deal with pretty much any negativity as long as it does not involve my children.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they're I protect them to the bone.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: So they go after my children, there's a timeout, something really different.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I can take it.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually am like kind of bring it on as a social experiment.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I do challenge people, if you are wanting to get out there, go on TikTok and no one will probably know you if you're middle-aged, but it's very fun and very interesting.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: But it is part of my evolution of, you know, getting pushed in a different direction.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: And even this weekend, the women were like, well, tell me.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, and not knowing this algorithm of I'm on there for business, by the way.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm on there for loop health.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, by the way, that's but okay, so I want to decode that.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: Can I decode this?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's the best thing about this podcast.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of things that Steph's saying that's worth noting that are universal, like you too could go do this in your own version of whatever your experiment with TikTok is.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't have to be TikTok.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: It actually makes me laugh when we're even talking about TikTok as middle-aged people, but anyway, keep going.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's okay.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay, so the TikTok experiment, which is we'll we'll call it TikTok gate.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in TikTok gate, and your TikTok listener might be something completely different.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: It likely is.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can't, you're not a carbon copy of Steph.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you have your own version of what TikTok is.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: And let's be clear what TikTok is for Steph.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok is a um it's an unforeseen pivot that she's taking because she's run into all this regulatory stuff on Instagram.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: So she's readily saying, I never would have done this if Instagram had stayed consistent and safe and comfortable for her.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So we're already in the land of she's sitting in an uncomfortable world.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: She's she's the CEO running a business whose majority platform was reliant on Instagram and they banned her.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: So she's now trying to pivot.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is an executive pivot that is uh an attempt to maintain the branding momentum that she had developed before Instagram gave up free speech.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I love how you just said that.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: So keep going, but I'll be back.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: We can collect our sound bite right there.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh watch me, I'll be banned from Instagram.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're not going to actually that you're fine.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: The most G-rated um uh profile on planet Earth.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so here's the thing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: What you did there is okay, the reframe that you did, you called it an experiment.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you said you actually instead of so a lot of limiting beliefs will be like, well, I don't know anything about TikTok, and I need to figure out about TikTok, and I'm not the right demographic.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Every single thing that could have been a reason that you would paralyze yourself with an unconscious belief that not right now, that's not a good idea, you changed into something you had excitement about.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm running an experiment.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: You said, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what I'm doing on TikTok.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just playing around, right?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you could see that you were, you were truly seeing it that way.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: You said, and when you said, you know, I get all this negative comments, and I love it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's just a mental reframe from this feels so terrible.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, maybe I really am like a loser that shouldn't be doing this, right?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Versus, hey, this is engagement, this is really interesting.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then the Maddie stuff is just like an added bonus to see you kid have like social bravery and like stand up for you and also have a funny sense of humor about it.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not telling me to get off right, which is so cute.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: Is like she gets she gets progress.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, yeah, it is.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: It is actually really fun.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I think back to the social.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: So but it's fun.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing is what I want people to hear is that it's not fun because it's inherently fun.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's fun because you have put a mental frame around it.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now that comes with years, like we don't want to undersell here.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like Steph is somebody who has long been interested in therapy, like she's gone to Hoffman.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: She's done a bunch of really hardcore self-reflective work that contributed to this, like this kind of infrastructure that can handle that kind of rejection, um, you know, handle the stress associated with being banned on Instagram.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: All of that took time because we just got through this conversation about peaks, valleys, and plateaus.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like now I want to highlight that like it took you a long time to get here.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: A bunch of, yeah, and a bunch of conversations with your children, probably with your partner, um, maybe with your ex might have come up.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be reasonable as you become a public figure to kind of have conversations about that if you still have minors in the house.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's ways in which your own family of origin, all of those people, as you were doing this, probably had their own reactions to this.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the funny is you have to stay the course.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Sarah, and we've talked about this before, and I think I've talked about it on this platform, but I'm just a full believer in God, the universe, whatever.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever keeps whatever's happening and that keeps showing up for you is because I have not gotten to a place where I've learned whatever I need to learn from it, right?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I learn from it, it'll go away.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the last time I got removed from Instagram, my team that helped me got 50 people back up.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Only person to go back down was me.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: So now the joke is when we have these team meetings that I'm the most hated person on Instagram, which is really funny.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: But what I'm so bizarre.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: What I've learned, because I'm gonna be back up, but what I've learned, I actually said this last night.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: I said, oh my gosh, it was an epiphany I had.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: What if for some reason me not being on Instagram is protecting me?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, rejection is protection.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: I never thought about that.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what just what if for right now, for whatever stage it is, because peptides go through all these different waves, right?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: It all just maybe, you know, I am getting pushed in all these different directions, and I and I am starting to learn the whys and this and and all of it where I do smile.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: No, don't get me wrong, it's really affected my business.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like anyone who's gone through this kind of you know, silencing, it's really affected my business.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I have grown.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've grown.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've I mean, it's probably the biggest, the second biggest growing period of my life has been the last three months.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I am at a point where I can kind of laugh about it, right?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I can, I do know I'll be back up one day and I can laugh at TikTok and I can kind of, but when you are having to pivot in life and hard things happen, like there are stages you cannot laugh about it, right?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Or there is no, I cannot even see what a silver lining could possibly be.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're in this almost like victim stage of like, yes, why am I only me?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: 50 went up and just mine went down.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I've just realized through I mean February, March, April, May, June, July, August, pretty eight months.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: It've been now for eight months, pretty much.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I've grown so much in those eight months.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that's great.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna keep growing from it, you know, and I'm gonna keep pivoting and I'm gonna keep trying different things and find the joy in it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess what I want to kind of land this whole plane of being is like if anyone is in a season like this, or in any season, you know, that you're talking about where they come to you, or I'm in this.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how do you, you know, everything is happening for you.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's so hard sometimes to go, well, how is this happening for me?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: For the love of God, it's not happening for Mary Joe down the street.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: Mary Jo's life is perfect, Instagram's perfect, everything's perfect.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: Why is Mary Joe perfect?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: And look at me.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you, you know, you say that's a buy, that's an that that's a cognitive error there because I'm the person behind the scenes in those lives that you think um and believe are perfect, and they aren't because nobody's exiled, right?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the the the error in thinking there is uh is is in that, but I do hear what you're saying that you know, and listen, sometimes that's the chapter you're in.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not saying the chapter of being victim, but sometimes we are so deep in it that we really do just have limited ability to see beyond the horizon.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and that's okay too.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: Those periods, first of all, nothing lasts forever, literally.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this too shall pass.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, so so will when when you feel like, oh, you've arrived at the the the place that you said you'll be happy when, P.S.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's temporary.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: So everything's temporary, and this too shall pass.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in the meantime, I always think if somebody's really kind of in that phase, I always think, I'm not gonna try to change their mind.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna A, keep them company.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna bear witness.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I snuggle in and I go, Great, I'll take you any way you come.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I I snuggle in, and then it's just about getting um collecting practices, practices and um skills we can do to sort of offset the stress and the burden of those chapters, right?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: So there's always places where we have agency, even in moments where in the existential realm we really might not have control or influence to shape or change what's happening.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking of people in the middle of like bad divorces, illness, really tough fight finan death, financial stuff, real mental health crises, right?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Then we just we move the goal, we get really um clear about what kind of resources you have available emotionally and psychologically to work with, and we work within that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: So there is always space for agency.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And look, sometimes like when when you were in your chapter of like the divorce, and maybe even kind of leading up to it, it's like you sort of you had to be in that stress.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: The way forward was through it.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: There was no shortcut, there was no positive affirmation, there was no peptide in a bottle that was gonna relieve you of right, and there was no supplement.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was like you had to do it, and the only thing you could do was build up practices and sort of rituals and skills that would allow you and partnerships, yeah, you know, therapists, et cetera, et cetera, that would allow you time to be in it safely.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I was talking to a friend who's getting divorced and um she's got young kids, and I said to her, I said, because I wish someone had said this to me, even in even in my business as well, and like expect it to be hard for a long time.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, and and when I said that, I'm like you can't make a big, big life decision like a divorce, or even leaving a job or kind of any big transition, right?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Moving across the country, whatever you're in, like it doesn't happen overnight.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: You don't make new friends overnight, you don't you don't start dating overnight, you don't, you know, your children aren't okay overnight, your spouse isn't okay.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like healing takes time and it's not linear.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that I think as long as you manage the expectations that you're just gonna be in it for a while.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, anything I'm in, like where I am right now, I'm actually excited for what's to come because I'm like, I can't stay here energetically.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I do know my business-wise, I'm pivoting what's next.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, wherever Instagram lies, it lies.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And my, you know, my IRL, I didn't do.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm a little bit excited, like, what's around the corner?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I got invited to a really cool influencer lunch of an LA tomorrow.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: And um, they're, you know, it was hard, it was hard to get they vetted you, and then it was it's second, it was like about a three-interview process to get in.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're looking for partnerships.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's, I'll tell you offline about it, a really, really cool brand partnership.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, this is exciting.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I was gonna meet a girl for dinner who's there, we're gonna have dinner after in LA, so I don't have to do the traffic.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: And she writes, Oh, by the way, I got invited to this other event tonight.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a plus one.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Would you want to go to this dinner?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I go, absolutely.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought to myself, well, that turned into a fun day.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: And what I mean by that is you don't know what's around the corner when you just say yes to something, right?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a new friend that I met through a different friend.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you just never know where life's gonna take you, right?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're showing Up at this retreat, Sarah, that you're like, oh my God, if we'd asked two years ago, if you would be a part of my retreat, we'd never know.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I also want to encourage the listeners is if you are in the thick of the hard, it's go, oh my gosh, energetically, I'm excited because what is next?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, you're not gonna live in the hard forever.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, and sometimes I feel like when it is really good, or we talked about flow in our other podcasts.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: When I am the flow, sometimes I'm a little bit about, oh God, is a shoe gonna drop because it's not always gonna stay like this.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate this.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I find also in the hard is like I'm excited because what is gonna be next?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, there's no normal, right?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: I will never go back.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: We don't walk backwards.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: So whatever was before is not gonna be.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: But what's in front of me can be really exciting, you know, based on the hard that I'm in, you never know.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know, and it is all about like that mental framing of that not knowing.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Of the excitement of some people.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna get rapid fire right now because Caesar gave me this warning, and I'm gonna pick up Maddie from school.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we are gonna do rapid fire.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, good.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you're gonna find.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: But this is what you're gonna really struggle, Sarah, because I know you very well.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna want to like elaborate.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this is not TikTok um format.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: So it's gonna be like promise.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'll be it's like this or that.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be, you know, true or false is all right.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm gonna play by the rules.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: You ready?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: I can do this.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: All right, yes.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: True or false.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: A midlife crisis in your we call they call the crisis in here.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: A midlife awakening in your 40s or 50s is really just a delayed identity crisis.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: True or false?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have to elaborate, you can.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't quite understand the question, so I'm gonna say false.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, perfect.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: One word.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: The emotion most women are actually avoiding when they say they're quote, not readying to pivot in midlife.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: What is that?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Fear.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I love that.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: Finish the sentence.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: The biggest lie we tell ourselves about starting over in your 40s or 50s is that it's ever really starting over.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually really good.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing is wasted.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's always building.
• 46:12
  unknown: Yes.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, quick answer.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: In your 40s or 50s, is is it burnout or boredom that usually triggers the pivot?
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Depends on the personality type and the life and the nervous system.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: I bet this will be really interesting.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to maybe another podcast.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Your CEOs, I'm sure this is going to be very interesting because I do know a lot of CEOs, it is burnout, and then their boredom gets them in trouble, right?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: They miss the grind, they miss the build, and then all of a sudden, you know, they're off in a different world.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, this or that.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: Reinvent yourself completely at this stage or refine what's already working?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: Both.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: Love.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: One word.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: The number one thing holding smart, capable women in their 40s and 50s back from changing course.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Themselves.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Themselves.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Quick answer.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: Is having it all figured out by now, in quotes, a myth or just outdated advice for someone in midlife?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: Myth.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: That has been perpetuated generationally.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: Finish the sentence.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know it's time to pivot when.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know, you feel.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you will never know.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why it takes faith and courage.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, but you feel it.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: And usually it feels uncomfortable.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the feeling of uncomfortable will depend on who you are and your nervous system and your personality stuff.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: And right, and you can't ignore it anymore.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you go, oh gosh.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you could, but the cost is enormous.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you're so uncomfortable.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the defense mechanisms that used to work aren't working.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: You have to increase those.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't work.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: It turns into a real conundrum.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're better off just listening.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: This or that?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Pivot because something's wrong, or pivot because you're finally ready.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think something has to feel wrong enough to get us ready.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I like that.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Quick answer.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: What's healthier at this stage of life?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Quitting fast or leaving slow?
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's a hard one.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Rip the band-aid off.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: Depends on the circumstances.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there's real cases where ripping it off or cold turkey or whatever is both necessary and better and difficult.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: And there's times where moving methodically, strategically, and slowly is better.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where I would think a therapist, a coach, somebody to really work on that piece of it, right?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because it could be reckless with certain things to just like quit.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean things, people, etc.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or it could be impulsive, right?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Where it's an impulsivity where you're like, wait a minute, are you gonna regret this?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_02: All right, one word, the feel, and this I think I would love to know from a like when you work with the CEOs and stuff.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: One word, the feeling right before a good pivot.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: Terror.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: I heard that one.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: True or false.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: Most women in their 40s and 50s, let's say midlife, have already waited too long to make the change they know they need to make.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: True or false?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: False.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_02: You're right on time.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're never too late.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: You are never too late.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: I love it when I when you see like an 80-year-old getting married again and just so excited.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: I say this in I told you I'm gonna put this in the thing.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, there's great cases of people, women who, you know, reinvented themselves radically in midlife, radically, and then changed the world.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you are never too late.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you are right on time.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, let's see.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um finish the sentence.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody tells you that your 40s and 50s actually give you blank.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sovereignty, freedom.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um a space that is uniquely yours, unlike any other time in your life as a woman.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: Quick answer.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: What's the tell that a pivot at this stage is coming from fear versus clarity?
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter, by the way.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get hung up on what fuels you.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Take it.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: Motivation is morally and ethically neutral.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Jordan took spite all the way to a bunch of NBA finals.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Many people that I work with have fueled an engine on I'll show them, or other anger or other things, fear.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't matter.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's morally and ethically neutral.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's motivation.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, your source of motivation will change a dozen times before your adventure's over.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I love don't get hung up on that.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: That is so good.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_02: This or that.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: At this point in life, chase passion or chase peace.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Highly dependent, and also um they should not be mutually exclusive.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just like we used to think that you could either be a high performer or you could feel well.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: Not true.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not true.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the same.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is so fun, and I like that I have you on your toes.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: I know I could do a whole hour in a 6 PS.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is your first, your biggest, your hour with me is probably the most fun of your whole day, Sarah.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna say that.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just teasing it.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um one word, you're almost done.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: One word.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: What most what most pivots in your 40s and 50s have in common at the very start?
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uncertainty.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_02: You're really good at this.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: True or false?
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_02: You can't wait till you're ready.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: You're never ready.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: You're never ready.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're never.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, with anything, too.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: You're never ready to start, you're never ready to leave.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: You're never ready.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's and we're all faking it until we really make it.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's making it up.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: Comparison hits harder in midlife than it did in your 20s and 30s.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: True or false?
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Highly and highly independent and also um, yeah, highly independent.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Although, great question.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is independent.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: This one is because for you, for example, for you, for example, it hits, I think I could say confidently for you, it hits you way less than say when we knew each other at Georgetown or in grad school.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like that that age group of 20s, okay?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's seems like it hit for you totally different.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: Other people, it might be much more sensitive now, and they were maybe oblivious back then.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the same I always say, you know, comparison is a thief of joy.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like for me, when I was in my 30s, like raising kids, right?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like everyone's trying to keep up with the Joneses.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: And is my kid going here?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: I see it in Newport with some of my younger friends, and I go, oh God, I don't want to go back there.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because guess what?
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: It fucking doesn't matter.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter when they walk, it doesn't matter when they go to school, where they go to school.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, all the things that you don't know any better then.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where I do feel like 10 years on them, 15 years older, I'm like, oh gosh, I like the fact that I can go, I'm not even gonna try to compare myself to Mary Joseph.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: See here that freedom, that kind of like liberation, and a bunch of that is dictated by the decade we're in.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: Love.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you're almost there.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: These last two, Sarah.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Finish the sentence.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: The part of my inde part of my identity I had to grieve to get here was.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna finish the sentence.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: The part of my identity I had to grieve to get here was.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's easier.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: The part of my identity I had to grieve to get here was um a theme of um belonging, um, a theme of family.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: I had to rethink what I thought my life was gonna look like at this age um to be who I am today.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: Love, right.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's a little bit, I can speak for myself, of a death, right?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Of like for me, I was like, yes, God, I didn't I wanted to be married forever.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to get divorced.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to be a single mom.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want my kids to be a product of divorced parents, you know, whatever that, you know, fairy tale, Pollyanna, whatever it is, or it could be with someone's career, or I feel bad for someone that was a supermodel.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: At some point that's gonna, that's gonna probably age, or an athlete, or anything like that.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that identity.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to do that with like my family of origin.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had to like grieve this idea that I had about that.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think we all can.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had to, yeah, I had to fully um reimbed myself.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I love this.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: Last one, and then we are done with this, and we will.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: I promise you, Caesar, we're gonna wrap it up.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: Quick answer.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: What's one sign, psychologically speaking, that a pivot at this stage is actually working?
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: That you're doing it.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anything.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I take on bridge with working, and I won't get into it because I know I committed myself to short words.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can't work down here.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: I will say this.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know I will say this.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: As long as you're engaged in this, the process, you're doing it.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes getting hung up on whether or not it's working is perfectionism dressed up as excellence.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a form of sabotage that I've had to learn how, both for my own self, but certainly as a therapist and now as a coach, to be um suspicious of.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can easily find yourself embroiled in this dialogue with people that isn't actually helpful, and it's actually part of what holds them back.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, what's the sign that it's working that you're doing it?
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: And what does doing it mean?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're actively engaging in the parts of yourself that feel fill in the blank.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uncomfortable, unfinished, undone, unlovable.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I almost think you got to expect messy.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta expect messy because you are you're breaking a paradigm, right?
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're baking, you're moving into something else, a different version of yourself, a different energetic plane.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_02: If anyone thinks it's gonna be linear or they think you're gonna be in flow, I think you got to think of the opposite.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think you'll get there.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I think for the most part, assume there's gonna be some rockiness, and that's where you're gonna grow and you're gonna, I would think, assure yourself, hey, I'm not gonna walk backwards.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in it.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm stuck in it, but I do know I'm gonna get to the other side, and it it's gonna be great.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's a belief, I guess.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: It is a belief.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's also, you know, performing and and moving forward when we really can't see sort of but 15 minutes ahead of us.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out that's kind of enough of a margin to find our way there.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's working, if you're working it, right?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: So like any step, what where do you start?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just make your start.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: I like just make your bed.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna end here.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think the one thing, and I'm gonna literally end it, Caesar, I promise, is I also feel like the one of the biggest tools that I've learned through therapy and through doing stuff is like, and you said like just keep moving, you know, is is one day at a time.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do not get 10 days ahead of yourself, just focus on today.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: And as long as you're having forward movement today, that's all that matters.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel I could get paralyzed when I was 10 days out, two months out.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I could get hit by a truck in three days and it doesn't even matter.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're just dealing with today.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you really do think about why that's so comforting that that one day at a time notion in the addiction community.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you give a monkey on your back, it turns out one day at a time is a big enough stretch of real estate.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the same holds true for all of us who are just learning how to, you know, kind of be our the best version of ourself while we're constantly changing.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_01: So 100%.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think being proud of just any step forward and being proud of yourself is the biggest thing, you know, and just realizing that, like, yeah, especially in middle age, like no one's gonna pat.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you might get a pat on the back here and there.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta pat your own back.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you've got to be like, all right, I lay into bed, put the sheets up, turn off the lights, and I'm proud of myself today.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever that looked like, that's enough.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: So where I'm gonna end it right there.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_02: So if you guys find any of this fascinating and want to join Sarah and Mara and myself and Michelle, who you know specializes in GOP, we're gonna have a really, really fun retreat on October 18th in Aspen.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not gonna come, we'll Aspen, which is just all your place.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have not been, it's a great introduction.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um anyway, I'm so honored that we're here today, Sarah.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: I can't and when I get to see you next, we'll be Aspen.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I'm so glad, so happy.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: All right, I'll talk to you later.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.