Latest / Auto Collabs / Why Customer Loyalty Starts with Smarter Tech with Thuy Adomitis

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Why Customer Loyalty Starts with Smarter Tech with Thuy Adomitis · Auto Collabs

• 0:00
  Gentlemen, summertime is here. [upbeat music] This is Auto Collabs. Summertime never leaves where I am. [laughs] That's a lie. That's not true. You have summertime, and then you have ice storms, and- That's true.
• 0:18
  That's true. I mean- And everything shuts down. They're like, "Was that a snowflake?" And then- Yeah... everything shuts down. It's kinda... I know. I- I love it...
• 0:26
  but summertime- Up, up in the north in, in the, uh, where, where Paul's at in summertime, everybody like, it's like 72- [laughs]... and people are l- in like thong Speedos. They're like- [laughs]... "What? It's so hot."
• 0:38
  Listen, I think the ratio of thong Speedos to people up here is probably only, only lower in Alberta, Canada. [laughs] I, I, I don't think you could buy one if you wanted to. Um- Thank goodness...
• 0:52
  but, but, but on that note- On that note [laughs]... I mean, like, come on. Like, how are we supposed to talk about this?
• 0:56
  So no, but the reality is, [laughs] like, when people, the, the, the hot, the, the level of hotness that people feel when it's 72 is equivalent to the level of coldness people feel at 72 in, where Michael lives, where people are pulling out UGG boots and scarves and hats.
• 1:11
  That's right. But the beginning of the summer season is my, one of my favorite seasons because I know I have, like, 10 weeks before it snows, and we can do a lot of things in those 10 weeks. [laughs] That's right.
• 1:20
  That was, that was a bad joke. That was a bad joke. On, on the boat and, you know. We are going on the boat. But the boating season's very short here, I will give you that. That's true.
• 1:28
  [laughs] I'm, I'm determined to take you out on the boat sometime this summer. Let's do it. All right. I'm determined.
• 1:34
  This, this, this boat and weather conversation has nothing to do with the fact that we're gonna be hanging out today with Thuy, with MIA Labs, and, uh- Oh... I'm excited about this conversation.
• 1:42
  We got to meet her at ASOTU Con just briefly, and we've gotten to know the, the team there. But I can't wait to dig a little bit in, understand what makes her tick, what makes her team tick, all that type of stuff.
• 1:53
  So, hey, uh, you know, whatever your weather is, we hope you enjoy this conversation with Thuy. [upbeat music] Thuy, thank, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 2:04
  It was awesome to be with some of your team, I will say, at ASOTU Con, and I did receive one of the very highest quality pieces of swag I have ever gotten in my life. Legit. Like, K- I, I- Absolutely...
• 2:16
  mentioned it to Kyle. I was like, "Did you see this thing?" Like, it was amazing. So I don't know if you had something to do with that or if- So, Scott Trailer, who's another VP of sales at MIA is...
• 2:25
  Oh, I was teasing him. I'm like, "You're like our chief merch officer. So if this AI thing don't work out, we're gonna create a new, like, streetwear brand." It was really great. Perfect. Yeah.
• 2:34
  [laughs] I'm telling you, a g- a good, a good piece of merch can't hurt anyone. Like, the- I mean- Y- everybody can bring pens, right? But to bring a real quality piece of merch, that's a whole other level.
• 2:46
  Yo, did you feel that hoodie, Kyle? Uh, it's got some weight to it. I did. It's got a little bit of weight. My kids and my wife were like, "This is going on the boat with us." [laughs] That's awesome.
• 2:55
  It, it would be a great boat. It's a great, it is a great quality. See, everybody's jealous of the, of the hoodie now. That's the thing. Yes. Well, let me know. I'm happy to ship out a few for your families.
• 3:03
  There you go. Oh, thank you so much. Oh, look at that. Thank you so much. Look at that. Anytime, anytime.
• 3:07
  One question, one question that we always like to, to ask first time guests on this show is just, like, the Cliff's Notes of how you ended up in the auto industry, because it's always a wild ride, and it's never one- It is...
• 3:18
  it's j- very rarely one that people expected. So how did you get here? Definitely not linear, right? [laughs] Ever. Never. So, like most of us, I stumbled into the industry completely by accident, right?
• 3:29
  Got married in 2000, moved from Michigan to LA, had no job, and actually purchased my very first car by myself as an adult because both my parents, um, were retirees from General Motors.
• 3:42
  So growing up, we just went down to a lot, picked out a car, and brought it home. Mm-hmm. There was no dealer involved, right? So it took me 14 hours to buy that car. Um- Like, in person? In person. Whoa.
• 3:53
  [laughs] This was, this was back in 2000. That's a special one. That's, like, they need to bring you three meals.
• 3:59
  [laughs] Well, I, in order to get out of that situation, I said, "My husband and I are gonna go have dinner, and we'll be back." And they just, like, did everything they could. I'm like, "I'm out of here.
• 4:09
  I'm starving," right? So I go, we go, we actually did go to dinner, and I said, "We're done. We're going home after this." And he's like, "Thuy, please, can you just shut up? I want this car so bad."
• 4:20
  [laughs] So we went back. He signs all of his paperwork, and I'm not feeling good about this at all, right? And I get back. I find carsdirect.com online.
• 4:32
  I do a little research, and this is when you could see, like, the transaction pricing. I don't know if you knew this. This is back in 2000. Oh, yeah. That's early days of CarsDirect. Early. Hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:40
  On, on the interwebs for dealer, right? Dealers didn't even have their websites- Right... at that point. Some did and some didn't. So I take a peek, and I find out that we paid way too much, and- Right...
• 4:51
  that didn't make me happy. That's like, that's a terrible moment. That's how- Terrible... that's the worst feeling, especially after 14 hours. Ugh. 14 hours, a lot of heartburn, right? But we, my husband got his truck.
• 5:01
  He was super happy with it. But then I started poking around the website, and like, oh, they're hiring. I don't have a job right now. [laughs] Ugh. [laughs] I was a newlywed, right?
• 5:09
  So I went down there, and I'd been in sales for many, many years. So I got hired on right away, and, um, that was my first entry into the car business. And I'm curious like a five-year-old, right?
• 5:23
  So I ask a lot of questions. [laughs] I want to learn at every step. And, uh, my dealer friends were so giving of the information and making sure that I was going to be successful as well.
• 5:36
  So I locked arms with a couple of really big, um, stores here in Southern California, and we just cranked out a ton of cars. Amazing. What else do you sell?
• 5:44
  You know what's so interesting there, though, is, like, it, it's... And, and this is the, this is the problem, you know, you getting into the car business was because you had a bad experience, right? That, that- Right...
• 5:55
  there was a one-off maybe dealer that wasn't doing things right, that wasn't caring for you. Maybe some- something about that 14-hour experience just wasn't right. You overpaid for the car.
• 6:04
  But then you get in the industry, and you look around, and you're like, "No, all these people-"They're doing great. We're gonna- Yeah... do great business together- That's right...
• 6:11
  and they're gonna serve the people well, right? Right. But I took some of those learnings and catapulted myself to make sure I was successful, 'cause I shared that story, right? Mm-hmm.
• 6:20
  And so when I was telling them how I was gonna sell them a car, they bought everything.
• 6:24
  Because at that time, getting an out-the-door price from somebody was, like, like, really difficult, right, from a salesperson at a dealership. Mm-hmm.
• 6:32
  I just gave it to them because I had a sales manager up my back every single day. I had like- [laughs]... 300 leads I had to get through and answer everybody, right? And smile and dial. And so I just got really fast.
• 6:44
  It's still hard to get that, though. I can- It's still hard to get the out the door. I- I know. You know what, buddy? You need an out the door? I could do it for you. Let's go. [laughs] I got a 10 key. Yes.
• 6:55
  I got a 10 key I'm ready to rip. Yo. Give me something to sell. Let's go. I got you. How many people- That's amazing. I, how many people under 35 do you think understand what a 10 key is? Nobody.
• 7:06
  And I have to, Paul, you, it's funny you make that joke- I-... because I have to stop making these old lady jokes anymore, right? Like- [laughs]... the garage looks like Sanford and Sons.
• 7:16
  I got no- everybody's like, "What's a Sanford and Son," right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. [laughs] And I, I wish I could show you. They, oh, my- I can't, I'm not allowed to anymore. Right.
• 7:23
  But, um, but I always thought that it'd be great to, to... Maybe I'll do this now that we have vibe coding. Code an app that- Oh, yeah... makes the sound of a 10 key, that you can operate it like a 10 key- Yeah...
• 7:34
  and as you're doing it, it still makes the sound. Isn't that amazing idea? That is an amazing idea. That's a genius idea. Kyle's like, "I got, I got-" Kyle's like, "I gotta go." [laughs] "I gotta go make that right now."
• 7:44
  Hold on. [laughs] I'll probably do that tonight. Later. [laughs] The kids will be watching TV. "What are you doing?" "I'm building the app- Right... a 10 key app that only- Building a 10 key app...
• 7:51
  that only people over, over 35 will even have a chance at understanding. [laughs] [laughs] Like, wait, you have to wait that long- It was just so fun... for it to print out on the receipt? Yes. Yeah. You do.
• 8:01
  And yes, the red ink is getting a little low, right? [laughs] Oh, that sounds absolutely amazing. Changing ink out only. So how do you go... So, so obviously you've been through a few different places within the- Yeah...
• 8:13
  uh, within the auto industry- Yeah... seeing some of the progression in tech and, and consumer, you know, both consumer tools with TrueCar and then, uh, dealer tools.
• 8:22
  What, what led you to the place you're at now, being in an environment where AI is kind of the all day, every day? You know, it's, it's, uh- Mm. [laughs]... proliferating, right? This thing is moving at breakneck speed.
• 8:37
  So, um, coming from the consumer side, and I've just been working with dealers for 20-plus years.
• 8:42
  But once I was introduced to our technology, the p- top of my head popped off and I started to think about the different communications and issues I had when I was selling cars even, uh, and myself as a consumer.
• 8:55
  And time is a non-renewable resource. We don't get that back. So I'm always about making sure I maximize my dealer's time all the time, right?
• 9:05
  So, and that is, we're gonna do this by deploying AI, AI agents, multiple agents at the store. So when I saw the tech, Kyle, uh, it was like, it's over. Mm. Um, goodbye to my legacy-type products.
• 9:21
  Goodbye to all of the third-party lead sources. I see future with AI and dealer, um, but you're still gonna need me as a salesperson, right? [laughs] That's right.
• 9:33
  [laughs] To unravel, unravel some of that technology language and how it applies at dealerships. Mm-hmm. You know, I love how you said, like, multiple agents, because I think...
• 9:44
  I get this question all the time, 'cause I, I love tech, and people a- across the industry, especially dealers I know, they know that I love tech. They, they will ask the question, "What's the best AI right now?"
• 9:54
  That's, like, the, the way- Absolutely... they ask the question, right? And I think that what, what
• 10:02
  people that are still learning what AI is, it's not like saying what's the best CDP or what's the best CRM or what's the best... AI is a category in which hundreds of thousands of applications- Right.
• 10:19
  You have to say, "For what?" For what? Yes. What's the best AI for what? Yeah. And so you're saying deploying AI agents across multiple places within the dealership.
• 10:31
  W- when you're thinking about, like, these things that you're thinking, "I'm gonna unravel this and, like, put it back together," from your position in sales, but also, you know, sales goes close to product a lot, how are you thinking about agental AI within the business sectors of the dealership?
• 10:52
  So, uh, there's four or five different departments, right? Let me unpack this. Let me back the train up a little bit.
• 10:59
  So over several years, us as an industry building out all of these tools, we've built a Franken system.
• 11:05
  We've plugged all this stuff into our DMSs and CRMs just to try to get to this panacea of a, a, a, a universal one-throat-to-choke product. Have we not? Yeah.
• 11:17
  Franken system is like, I wanna create a content series around Franken system now. That- That sounds amazing. [laughs] I trademark that. And so, no, just kidding.
• 11:26
  [laughs] Kyle's over there registering the domain probably. Well, and you're, you're over here saying stuff like, "Time is a non-renewal resource." I'm like- I know... "Who's writing that book next?" You know?
• 11:35
  [laughs] It's gonna be great. We've built Franken systems, right? Yeah. As an industry, right? And we're trying to get to this one throat to choke.
• 11:43
  So at Mia, we see communications at every single point in the dealership. So you've got the sales department. Those guys struggle with so much volume that is coming through the internet, through the front door.
• 11:54
  The phone is ringing off the hook, and we got great salespeople, right? But they are buried, right?
• 12:00
  And so we need to deploy agents to help them do that upper funnel of work with, like, nurturing, and that is answering basic questions like, "What is the gross vehicle weight rating of the F-150 dually," right?
• 12:13
  Or, you know, "250 dually."Right? Things of those natures AI can do right now. We're in June 2025. Let's not- let's... This task stuff sh- should be done by machine, and we do it beautifully, uh, through voice AI.
• 12:28
  But not just through voice, Kyle. Right? We're gonna text, chat, email all agents- Yeah... in sales, in service, in parts- Mm-hmm... maybe even help out F&I. Accounting. Accounting.
• 12:46
  Come on now, anyone. Where's my plates? Where's my plates at? I need to cancel this, or I have questions on my paperwork. Yep. We're get- we're gonna be close.
• 12:55
  And because the Franken system that we built, all of these s- data silos, right? You got a chat platform on your website. You've got, um, a texting platform in your CRM. None of those talk to each other. Mm-hmm. Right?
• 13:10
  So we're creating all these data silos, and dealers have- are a treasure trove of data.
• 13:17
  Well, when you think about the Franken systems, I- y- it actually, as you're saying that, I'm going, okay, what does a website, a chat tool, a phone system, a CRM, a DMS, um, any, any level of technology in the store outside of maybe a, just a reporting tool, um, what do all of those have in common?
• 13:39
  And they're trying to increase the relational equity that we have interpersonally, right?
• 13:46
  So whether that be employee to employee, employee to customer, co- uh, you know, customer to customer, whatever that may be, we're trying to increase the relational equity, which all comes down to what's the biggest reason why, uh, why relationships...
• 14:00
  The two biggest reasons why relationships fail, communication and money, or communication and communication about money, right? [laughs] So which are major things in our stores.
• 14:10
  So if we can solve the communication gap across multiple systems, we start to solve the relational gap, which is where, you know, a client is made and not just a transactional customer.
• 14:20
  We, we wanna be- If I had popcorn, I'd be eating it right now. [laughs] That was a really great exchange. Yeah. That, that was awesome, Kyle. I appreciate that, that, that insight also.
• 14:30
  And there was a word that you said in there, I was like, "Shit, did I write that down?" Uh, it was good. But- We're recording. We're recording this. If you didn't know. We're recording. We're gonna be fine.
• 14:37
  Do we say we're recording this? Yeah. I'll, I'll play it back and I'm gonna steal that. You guys are gonna steal my Franken system, and I'm gonna steal Kyle's word. [laughs] But, but
• 14:47
  all of those data points, right, is a treasure trove of data, and ideally it should be in one space, right? We shouldn't have all of these different communications in different areas.
• 14:58
  Over time, as long as the dealer stays on our system, we're gonna remember every single conversation. And so it's gonna be- Mm-hmm... "Hey, Kyle. Back for your 10,000 mile service. How's the family doing?" Yeah.
• 15:10
  It's gonna... We're g- we're- Well, and I think that that's, that's an important part. Uh, uh, I love that you call that out too, because a lot of people, and this is tough in our industry, right?
• 15:20
  We're trying to solve the thing that's right now. Mm-hmm. And, and that's important. I have too many calls, I have too many leads. I'm not able to follow up well with these things.
• 15:27
  I'm not able to answer questions quick enough for customers. I'm not able to get the data out of the systems quick enough, uh, uh, as a customer. All of those things can be solved today.
• 15:35
  But what you just said is actually foresight into picking a partner
• 15:42
  or an AI tool or agent that is going to learn my business over time and be a loyal part of my organization, actually, two, three year f- three, five, seven years down the line when loyalty becomes important with that interaction as well.
• 15:59
  So what do you think happens when we have all of this data? Magic. I don't know. [laughs] So- High fives? Yeah. High fives. High fives all around. We eat pizza for lunch. Enthusiasm. Yeah. And excitement. You know.
• 16:14
  Good swag. We- Right. Yeah... it turns into another tool, almost like another platform, right? So if we can do proactive outbound, I know many dealer groups are playing this long game, right? We nurture the lead.
• 16:25
  AI is going to help them sell the car by handling inbound, doing outbound, um, voice, text, chat, all of that data is going into one place, right?
• 16:34
  And so over time, we're gonna outreach to that customer when it's time for service, right? So this stops the defection to your Jiffy Lubes of the world.
• 16:42
  Keep them within your ecosphere of, like, buy the car, service the car, bring back the car to, to, um, trade in and buy another vehicle, and we're gonna start back all over again.
• 16:54
  And what that does with that type of loyalty is reduce your CAC, and your, your marketing dollars diminish over time, right? That is the long game. Mm. Yep. All of that data. Yeah. I think,
• 17:08
  uh, yeah, and, and we talk a lot in cost per car sold, right? CVR. And, and I... This... The thing that I think that dealers need to learn how to measure is LTV to CAC. Mm-hmm. Right?
• 17:23
  Which is what SAS companies measure all the time. Yes. Right? Tell it to everybody what that means. So LTV, lifetime value, to CAC, uh- Awesome... customer acquisition cost.
• 17:34
  Um, and so if you can measure a differential on LTV to CAC and drive that number really high, right? Where you have a high LTV to low CAC- Correct... all of the sudden reten- uh, y- you know what retention looks like.
• 17:51
  You know what a low ca- cost, cost of, uh, customer acquisition.
• 17:55
  And, and I think, I'm just gonna throw this out there, because the PE money and the VC money around software right now is so high because software is able to measure those type of metrics.
• 18:10
  If we were able to do that as an industry, I think, I think, and we were able to achieve similar numbers as software can on cost of acquisition, right?
• 18:20
  Which can be in the, in the ones and twos of dollars-If we could do that into an industry, the already insane multiples on dealership buy-sells would be even crazier because there'd be net new money coming into the industry.
• 18:36
  So, like, that's actually what... That's the long, long game of what you're talking about. That's the long, long game. Yeah. Exactly, right? And, uh, every dealer and dealer group is chasing that.
• 18:46
  Of course, you're gonna have some short-term thinkers that are looking to gross every single deal, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's fine.
• 18:52
  But you've got some long tail players who are gonna do this right at the very beginning. They're gonna spend a lot of money. They're gonna acquire that customer. But over time, without any defection, they're gold, right?
• 19:03
  So as they come back in over and over again, that CAC from five years ago- Hmm. So- Yep... back to your point of LTV versus CAC. Yep.
• 19:14
  So all of a sudden you've got a retained customer that you acquired and that no longer is a part of your net new- Mm-hmm... cost of acquisition, and you start to drive down your cost of acquisition over time to where...
• 19:26
  I mean, imagine if a dealership could be in that, like, 50 to $70 cost per acquisition. Ooh, boy. I s- I think it's possible. I think it's wildly possible. I do think it's possible.
• 19:36
  And, um- There's no reason why it isn't... but wi- with those types of numbers, the blue sky, is there something beyond blue sky for dealership valuations? [laughs] A valuation would be- Stratosphere... stupid.
• 19:46
  Stratospheric money, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that- And the money's out there. The money's out there. But that's what AI enables, because then you release people to do the, the in- People-only things. Yeah.
• 20:00
  People-only stuff. Mm-hmm. The higher value work, right? I don't wanna take anybody's job. AI's not here, we are not here to take anybody's job. We want to make them way more efficient.
• 20:10
  There's top of funnel customers and there's bottom of funnel customers, right? So the bottom of funnel customers need way more assistance, a little bit deeper dive into the vehicle, the F&I piece.
• 20:21
  But let me tell them about the car. Mm-hmm. Right? Let AI do that. How, how late are you closed? We built online schedulers, and the adoption rate is dismal. Oh. It's terrible. Yeah.
• 20:33
  It's terrible because the experience is terrible. It sucks. Yeah.
• 20:36
  I'm in the business, and I still call in to book my service appointments, 'cause every time I do these clickarounds, there's, like, 55 clicks before I even have- Absolutely. Yeah... an appointment.
• 20:46
  And I don't have time for that. And other industries have figured it out. Yeah. Really. For sure. I mean, literally. I can schedule a carpet install. I can schedule my air conditioning maintenance.
• 20:55
  I can schedule all this stuff. Like home services. I ordered a pizza. You still can't, you, you still can't schedule a doctor's appointment though, so. It's, it's- I get that. [laughs] That's still not- I- I get that.
• 21:08
  They haven't figured it out either, so at least we're ahead of one industry. The right prescription too, you know? Like- Yeah. We're at least ahead of one industry, so. Right.
• 21:15
  You can schedule, you can schedule telemedicine, though. That's true. That's true. Yeah. That's true. So what are you excited about over the next year?
• 21:23
  Because I, we just gave you a whole product team that you gotta reassign- [laughs]... to building LTV to CAC ratios into your measurement metrics for your AI tool. I, I'm sure- What, what else are you excited about?
• 21:34
  Yeah. So, um, the, the parts department, right? Those poor guys. Hmm. So busy. Gotta put my glasses on, go to the typing machine, and see if that part is available. [laughs] Every single time. Yeah.
• 21:45
  Often forgot about when it comes to automotive tech. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But you've got stores selling millions of dollars in parts- Mm-hmm... every single month. So that team is massive, right? Mm-hmm.
• 21:55
  But they shouldn't be answering the phone to verify a part availability. I know there's a little bit more involved in that, but to share the, getting a deeper integration into the parts catalog or inventory- Hmm. Yeah...
• 22:06
  with the last six to eight digits. You need to meet our friend Kaylee Filio. We had her on the show not too long ago. I'd love to meet her. Two would love each other. You'd love to meet her. For sure. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:13
  I'd love to meet her. Um, but I'm super excited and bullish on that product that we should be delivering by the end of the year. Very good. Hey. Very nice. It's, uh- But Thuy, uh- Wow... it's been fun talking to you.
• 22:25
  We, I, I'm just excited because I'm all nerded out right now. Found a new sparring partner. I, I'm just, I'm like, "Let's talk a bit more." You said 5-coding, and I'm like, "Oh, my God. That's my whole life."
• 22:35
  [laughs] You had me at 5-coding. Yeah. [laughs] Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure, and thanks for joining us on Autocollabs. Great to be here. Great to be here.
• 22:46
  [upbeat music] All right, I'm dead serious. I think I need to develop the 10 Key app that, that we concepted and fleshed out a little bit in that episode. That's when you know you're around a real baller, right?
• 22:59
  When you can develop an idea- [laughs]... in, in person. No, the 10... Michael, do you know what a 10 Key app ca- tag calculator is? I don't, but I love the point where
• 23:08
  whe- when the guest, who's the expert in that field, kind of validates when we have a good idea. They're like, "Oh, that sounds like a good idea." And we're like, "Yeah, we're smart." [laughs] Case in point. Exactly.
• 23:18
  Case in point. My, my, my favorite part, and you guys know this about me, I am just so much about this retention flywheel. Mm-hmm.
• 23:24
  And the fact that AI is being leveraged to reduce customer acquisition costs, to think about building long-term loyalty.
• 23:33
  It's not just about, like, oh, just that one call that we had to handle or that one task that we had to handle, that this is a, a string of con- of events that, that capture customers' life cycle over time and understand and relate back, especially in an industry with, as it's turning, the high turnover, but we still have a high turnover industry in the sales and service departments.
• 23:56
  Mm-hmm. We get the opportunity now to have a, an employee type that spans turnover, and that increases customer loyalty over time. Oh, I like that. A, a...
• 24:08
  You know, I just feel like, and we'll, we'll see if this happens, but when you meet somebody and you vibe like that, I feel like Thuy is gonna be a part of a lot of amazing conversations, and I'm glad we just had the first one so we can get to the second one.
• 24:20
  So on behalf of Commounce here, Michael Cerullo and myself, thanks for coming along for the ride. Look on the App Store coming up for Paul J Daly's 10 Key Extravaganza app, 'cause it's gonna happen.
• 24:32
  [laughs] Thank you so much for listening to Autocollabs. Sign up for our free and fun to read daily email for a free shot of relevant news in automotive, retail, media, and pop culture. You can get it now at asotu.com.
• 24:46
  That's A-S-O-T-U.com. If you love this podcast, please leave us a review and share it with a friend. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.
• 24:56
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Autocollabs. [laughs] Welcome to Autocollabs. [laughs] Why are we recording? Are we rolling yet?
• 25:14
  Not yet.