Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Boundaries, Empathy & the Nonlinear Journey to Growth with Jewel Hohman

Transcript

Boundaries, Empathy & the Nonlinear Journey to Growth with Jewel Hohman · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

• 0:01
  Hello Melissa Crook here from the Field Podcast.
• 0:04
  Thanks so much for being with us today for this new episode,
• 0:08
  Boundaries, empathy and the non Linear Journey to Growth with
• 0:12
  Jewel Hellman. Our ways to engage with today's
• 0:15
  episode are as follows. Ask yourself questions of what
• 0:19
  you want for the future and what you want for yourself right now
• 0:24
  in life. What experiences do you want to
• 0:27
  have? Ask yourself the rapid fire
• 0:30
  questions. How do you want to be feeling in
• 0:32
  the next 6 months? What activities Nour issue?
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  Use these answers to live out of your own expectations and go
• 0:41
  after what you want. And don't worry, at the end of
• 0:44
  those episode, those rapid fire questions will come up again
• 0:48
  with our guest tools. So if you forget them now,
• 0:50
  you're going to get reminded about them again at the end.
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  We hope these help you think about ways to engage today as
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  you're listening to this new episode with our guest, Joel
• 1:00
  Holman. Thanks so much for being with
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  us. Hello and welcome back to The
• 1:19
  Field Podcast this week. I've got a new friend here with
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  me today. Originally, we met through our
• 1:25
  friends at Pod Match and then we've been able to stay in
• 1:28
  contact after I was able to connect with Jewel on social
• 1:31
  media and we were able to exchange emails.
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  But she's going to have some great energy and story to share
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  with you today with a lot of helpful resources in addressing
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  this need that we have. Sometimes we don't know we have
• 1:46
  to live well as our healthiest, authentic selves.
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  How to work through the emotions, the feelings, the
• 1:53
  traumas, the things that we experience in a way that allows
• 1:57
  us to not be carrying them around.
• 1:59
  In a way that allows us to show up as our full selves without
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  the heaviness that comes with carrying those things that we
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  don't know how to move through. And she's got a lot of a story
• 2:11
  in her own life that has LED her to this path.
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  And we're going to get to know her today, so I'm so thankful to
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  have her here with me. She describes herself as
• 2:20
  curious, empathetic and passionate.
• 2:24
  Joel Holman, Welcome to the Field Podcast, Melissa.
• 2:29
  Thank you so much for having me, I'm so excited.
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  Good, good, good. Well let's get right started and
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  talk to me about prioritizing self-care in your life.
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  What has that journey looked like for you?
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  Yeah, so prioritizing self-care Looks.
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  Wow, there's so many things I could say.
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  I think growing up I and I'm just gonna get wow, I'm just
• 2:56
  gonna get right into it, I guess.
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  So I think I grew up in a very emotionally volatile household
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  and I coped with being very perfectionistic.
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  Like I have memories of literally telling people of my
• 3:10
  life like it's not enough. It's not enough like as like a
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  little 12 year old and like preteen up until like high
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  school, college. I just telling people like, oh,
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  it's not enough. But what I meant is like, it's
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  not perfect enough and to be acceptable.
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  And that meant that was over a ton of different things.
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  That was just over what I looked like my personality, you know,
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  my, my physique, my everything. And so self-care at that time in
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  my life, which is not self-care, self-care ring at all.
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  That's really what self-care is, right?
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  It was not self caring at all. And it was how can I fix myself?
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  How can I perfect myself so I can be adored, liked and finally
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  feel good about myself? And so this came out in a way
• 3:57
  that might seem really adaptive to some people, but was
• 4:00
  definitely not. And I was devouring self
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  improvement books because I was looking for the answer, for
• 4:07
  somebody to tell me how to fix myself.
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  Now, I do think self improvement books in general can be really
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  helpful for some people, but for people like where I was at the
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  time that have so much internalized shame and are
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  really looking to be perfect, it's just normally a bunch of
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  advice that is like saying, hey, you need to do all of these
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  things to be perfect. And then when you're devouring
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  those books and like consuming all of those voices, now all of
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  a sudden you have 1000 standards that you're not meeting 'cause
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  you can't be all of those things, right?
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  Yeah. So it did not solve my
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  confidence issues, my self esteem issues.
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  And so I really developed like social anxiety.
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  I felt really lonely. And for me personally, that was
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  my biggest block. Those were my biggest, if you
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  will, like issues. They were the things I thought
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  about the most. Like I'm not good enough for
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  other people. I don't feel accepted and loved.
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  And again, I think that's probably related to my my
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  childhood. But as I have gone through, I,
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  you know, gone through college, I graduated with a psychology
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  sociology degree. Now I'm getting my masters in
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  social work. I've spent the past five years
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  working with people from all over the world on social
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  anxiety, friendship, correct charismatic leadership.
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  And all of the time, Alyssa, I'm reminded of this.
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  You'd think it would just be burned into my DNA at this point
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  like it would. And it is a little bit, but
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  it's, it's a constant like, Oh yes, Oh yes, this is it.
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  Because we're human. And I'm, I'm still a human being
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  living a human condition. But self-care over and over
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  again has been being aware of all of myself in totality and
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  accepting those parts of me. I used to feel so ashamed every
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  time I was angry. I used to feel so ashamed every
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  time I was imperfect or did something or somebody
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  disapproved of something about me.
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  And now I can realize the the depths, if you will, even my bad
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  parts, even the parts of me that I'm like, yeah, I do not want to
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  act from that. But I can understand it, see it
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  and accept it. And that makes me so much more
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  confident in my opinion. It makes me so much more
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  charismatic, not even in my opinion.
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  Arguably, that's like a lot of the research does.
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  Again, I've been doing this for five years.
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  That's what makes me more confidence, what makes me more
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  charismatic and so that self-care right there.
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  And then the other thing that I would say that is not talked
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  about enough and they want everybody to think of it this
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  way, but being in relationships, being in my friendships, being a
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  part of community is self-care. Especially today in our modern
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  world with our loneliness epidemic, our culture of
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  isolation. You know, I'm all for everybody
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  having boundaries. I am all for everybody, you
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  know, protecting their peace, not people pleasing, not
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  overextending themselves. But we've almost swung, like,
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  too far on the other end of the swing.
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  And we have forgotten the rejuvenation that comes from
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  connection. And so those would be like the
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  the two ways I've self-care tonight and my journey through
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  that to answer that question in such a long winded way.
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  No, that was really good. And you said so many things.
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  I'm just nodding my head. One grew up in an emotionally
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  volatile household, so know exactly what that looks like.
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  You're trying to find ways to show up perfectly so you don't
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  do anything to upset the apple cart.
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  You're just giving and you're looking for ways because they're
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  always, there's always spaces and places where you're not
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  getting feed. You're just getting feedback on
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  what problem you're causing. You're not getting feedback.
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  And so when you perform so you can get feedback and
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  affirmations and keep trying to do more and more of that because
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  it just keeps feeding the beast of trying to find that.
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  And as a little kid, that's, that's what you know.
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  And so you spend a lot of time trying to perform well and you
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  and you start and you confuse that from an early age as what
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  it means to show up well. And I, I give what you're saying
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  about the self-care books, there's and the self help and
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  self improvement, blah, blah, blah.
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  My friend Doctor Fanny Label Onger, who's been an ongoing
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  contributor on our networks, says we are not broken.
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  We are not broken and we have to quit approaching ourselves like
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  we're broken. We are human.
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  We learn, we grow, we become healthier, we unlearn.
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  And instead of we're not instead of this improve or be better,
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  I'm going to be healthier. I'm going to be more of myself.
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  And you know, and approaching it that way, you nailed one of our
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  talking points, which is accepting the layered aspects of
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  ourselves. You've already answered that
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  question. We'll revisit it again.
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  But you've nailed that and you nailed it in, in this is what I
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  tell people when I do workshops a lot, 1 on one.
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  We'll go through all these talking points in the workshops.
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  We'll talk about their value and their place.
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  But when I get to accepting the layered aspects of yourself,
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  will that make until you can do that, until you can accept all
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  the parts and pieces of who you are, get curious rather than
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  judgmental about them, then it's going to be very difficult for
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  you to prioritize yourself and see yourself as valuable because
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  you will not prioritize things you don't think are worthy of
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  your time. And you have to see yourself as
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  worthy and valuable in order to prioritize yourself.
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  So I mean, it's just and so that, and so it ties so
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  succinctly. You nailed.
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  I'm like, oh, she's answered the latest piece already, but you
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  made that connection already. So you're already down that
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  road. But also the relationships piece
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  we are I'm I can tell. And it's, it's tricky because
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  I'm definitely an extrovert. I've also learned how to be more
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  mindful of taking time to fill my cup that I don't have to be
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  with people talking all the time.
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  I actually need space to do that, but I have to really
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  balance. I work from home and, and, and
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  so I have to really balance. If I don't get out and get in
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  space, even though I'm on video with people all the time, it's
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  not the same as being in space with people.
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  And I will notice a depletion in my mental health if I'm feeling
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  kind of down low energy, a little more anxious and, and
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  ironically, the longer I stay home and don't get out, like,
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  oh, that takes too much energy. I don't want to do that.
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  But I know in the back of my head I need to do that.
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  I need to fill my cups with people and relationships and
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  connection today. And I always, every single time
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  I'm like, oh, I needed that. That was so good.
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  And so being mindful of that. So I'm so glad you brought that
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  up because it is a balancing piece and and it goes nicely
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  into confidently setting boundaries, healthy boundaries,
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  boundaries around your time and and who you spend it with and
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  how you spend it, boundaries around the kinds of ways you
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  will interact and won't interact with people.
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  Those are the kinds of things, you know, boundaries around
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  times that steal your energy versus give you energy.
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  And I think it's that understanding of let's make sure
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  we're setting healthy boundaries around those things instead of
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  just building walls and isolating ourselves.
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  And I think we went so many years without any boundaries and
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  no one even knew what that meant.
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  That sometimes you take a hard right turn and it's too hard and
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  you've got to come back and course correct.
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  And you nailed that perfectly. So.
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  So talk to me. How about how you've learned to
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  do that already? I mean, you're, you're at,
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  you're at a young age for this, which also makes me thankful and
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  hopeful because that means you're not going to get to the
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  same places that I've seen so many women get in my 8 forties,
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  50s get to before we finally do something about this.
• 12:52
  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Well, to go with what you said really quickly on what you said
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  about like, oh, I feel my mental health decline when I am in
• 13:04
  isolation, Melissa, I am, I specialize right in friendship,
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  connection, social confidence. And what you've said.
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  I'm actually going to take that language with me.
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  Like you've already left a mark on you and take that language of
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  being in space with people because I've never heard it be
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  described so succinctly. But it is so important actually
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  that there are, there's this group in the UK, in England
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  where they are, and I guess not a group.
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  It's a program. It's called social describing
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  and it's where people are giving social prescriptions for things
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  like depression, anxiety, chronic pain, PTSDI mean truly
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  like all different kinds of things.
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  And a social prescription isn't just hey, make a friend.
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  It's hey, go be in nature and go on a nature walk with community.
• 13:59
  There's programs like Nature RX and there's creative art classes
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  and in the UK your health insurance will cover those
• 14:09
  things and it's so amazing. It's so important that there's
• 14:12
  actually a group that I'm really hoping to be a part of, cross my
• 14:16
  fingers eventually. But if not, I'm going to shout
• 14:18
  them out anyway. And they are social prescribing
• 14:21
  USA and that's something they're bringing here.
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  So anyway, I wanted to touch on this for everybody because, and
• 14:28
  touch on what you said, because even those of you listening that
• 14:32
  are really introverted, we atrophy, our brains atrophy in
• 14:38
  isolation. And even though I'm having this
• 14:41
  amazing conversation, I'm feeling so connected and lit up
• 14:43
  by what you and I are talking about most, that you're right,
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  we're not like in space together and humans thrive on that.
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  And I thought, you know, again, like this is my expertise here.
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  I thought I was like, OK, I'm, I'm doing great, but our social
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  health is really a part of our well-being that I think is often
• 15:04
  overlooked in our individualistic culture.
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  And so I just wanted to shine some some light on that because
• 15:12
  I'm, I was like, I'm doing great.
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  I have an amazing group of friends.
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  I see them and I'm having these like amazing connections with
• 15:19
  new people all of the time over zoom.
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  I'm working with clients all day long.
• 15:24
  It's so fun. And yes, it is.
• 15:25
  And then I realize, oh, I'm not getting out of my home enough
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  because I'm over here working from home.
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  And so it's just something to check in with for everybody.
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  But especially if you're introverted, it's just something
• 15:38
  to be aware of. I'm not at all trying to shame
• 15:41
  anybody's introverted tendencies.
• 15:43
  Being introverted just means actually that you get full of
• 15:46
  dopamine faster than extroverts. So it just means you get full
• 15:50
  faster. And so you're like at the right
• 15:52
  amount of stimulation, you're like, I'm good, thanks.
• 15:55
  That was great. Whereas extroverts.
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  Like. Need more and more and more
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  stimulation to quote UN quote feel full.
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  And so I am not trying to shame anybody's tendencies, but I just
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  wanted to highlight what you said.
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  And then as far as boundaries go in navigating boundaries, I
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  think boundaries are really helpful when we really make them
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  about us and not about other people.
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  Yet in even in the times where it's like, wow, again, I just
• 16:27
  said I grew up in an emotionally volatile environment.
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  Now for me personally, in my journey, that environment was
• 16:35
  really rough. But my parent has evolved a lot
• 16:39
  and tries and that's enough for me personally.
• 16:41
  It's not enough for everybody. That's enough for me.
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  However, that person didn't, you know, boom, change, do a 180
• 16:49
  overnight. And so when I think about
• 16:52
  boundaries, there's so many times, especially in that
• 16:55
  activating relationship where I will want to be like, no, my
• 17:01
  parent, I have to block them from doing this.
• 17:06
  And really truly it. There's some catharsis, I think
• 17:11
  a little bit that comes from that, like recognizing it's not
• 17:14
  about you. But I think it's helpful every
• 17:16
  single time to bring it back to Nope, I'm gonna remove myself if
• 17:21
  my parent brings up XY and Z. And Nope, I'm gonna let my
• 17:26
  parent like me in my body. Not only am I just gonna walk
• 17:30
  away, but I'm gonna do the the freeze Mel Robbins uses where
• 17:35
  I'm gonna let my parent have their emotion and I'm not going
• 17:39
  to entertain it anymore. I'm just gonna let them have it.
• 17:42
  And so I think boundaries are really helpful as far as that
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  goes when it comes to a friendship.
• 17:46
  Just to bring up like another example, recently, I, you know,
• 17:52
  cuz again, our social health, their connections are, are
• 17:54
  mental health, that our confidence, their muscles, their
• 17:58
  well-being. So that's part of living.
• 18:00
  It's ever evolving, right? And so recently, one of my
• 18:06
  really close relationships with one of my confidants and
• 18:10
  somebody that I, you know, used to go to when I got my most
• 18:14
  vulnerable, the person that I just felt like the most
• 18:18
  comfortable around, our relationship really started to
• 18:21
  change. And that we started to, if you
• 18:26
  will, like, I wouldn't necessarily say drift apart, but
• 18:28
  our dynamics started to shift. And that was really painful for
• 18:31
  me. And I wanted to Melissa so bad.
• 18:39
  Be like, hey, you need to fix this to my friend, you need to
• 18:46
  fix this, we need to fix this. And I do think there is an
• 18:50
  element of like communicating with somebody, especially our
• 18:53
  friends, that it's really necessary and really important.
• 18:56
  I don't think we communicate with our friends enough
• 18:58
  honestly. But when I think about a
• 19:02
  boundary, I realize that by me trying to get their behavior to
• 19:09
  change was not as helpful for me in my experience, just to say
• 19:16
  the least. So I think boundaries are most
• 19:19
  helpful when we're like, OK, yes, I can talk to this person
• 19:23
  about how I'm feeling. Yes, I can say, hey, I don't
• 19:26
  like that. Yes, I can say that hurt my
• 19:27
  feelings, that made me angry, whatever it is.
• 19:30
  But I do think it's boundaries are most effective, especially
• 19:34
  in small relationships like that where it's like, OK for me, I
• 19:39
  wanna be around people that are actively pouring into me.
• 19:44
  And so I'm going to focus my attention on that and what that
• 19:48
  allows me to do with this friend.
• 19:50
  Because again, I was, it was really painful.
• 19:52
  But what it allows me to do is it allows me to accept the
• 19:55
  relationship and appreciate it in a different way, where that
• 19:59
  person is still part of my life and they still provide value and
• 20:04
  I still enjoy that friendship, but I'm not.
• 20:11
  Holding out and trying to enforce like I'm holding a
• 20:13
  boundary for myself where I am, OK, let's focus more.
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  And I mean focus not just like like effort wise, but mentally
• 20:23
  choose to direct my attention towards my other relationships
• 20:28
  where people are really flowing energy to me.
• 20:33
  Like. That right there alone, I think
• 20:35
  is a huge differentiator. I love the way you explained all
• 20:40
  that that was really so helpful and laid it out in a really,
• 20:44
  really tangible, relatable way that when we're doing this, this
• 20:51
  boundaries work or even communicating, we're not, we get
• 20:55
  stuck in this, we trying to fix and correct other people.
• 20:58
  That is not our responsibility and that is not their burden to
• 21:04
  abide by our boundary. It is our choice.
• 21:08
  And so you communicate. Listen, these are not
• 21:10
  conversations. I'm going to participate if it
• 21:13
  goes down this way. So just know that I'll leave the
• 21:16
  room. I'm not asking you to change
• 21:19
  anything. Just know that I'll leave the
• 21:20
  room or I might change the sub or ask to change the subject.
• 21:25
  And if you don't want to, that's why I'm just letting you know
• 21:28
  where I'm at, what's healthy for me now, and really making it
• 21:32
  about choices you're going to make, communicating that.
• 21:35
  And then they can choose what to do with that.
• 21:38
  But yeah, it has to be about you.
• 21:39
  And I love that was such a really good example.
• 21:42
  Relationships change over time. And sometimes we don't even know
• 21:46
  why. We get, we get a lot of thoughts
• 21:49
  in our head and we generate a lot of noise and we treat it as
• 21:52
  truth. We make a lot of assumptions
• 21:55
  when it just may be something going on in their life and they
• 21:58
  don't have the space or values wise.
• 22:01
  You guys have taken some different turns.
• 22:03
  These things happen in life. It doesn't mean anybody's bad
• 22:07
  or, and it can be hard because it's like, gosh, I miss the way
• 22:11
  that person used to show up in my life.
• 22:13
  And also, and if there's an, you know, you can get curious and be
• 22:18
  like, hey, just curious as there's, you know, sometimes you
• 22:20
  just know like you can see it, it's tangible.
• 22:22
  You don't really need to bring it up.
• 22:23
  It's just obvious. Other times you can like, hey,
• 22:25
  just curious, haven't heard from you as much lately or whatever.
• 22:29
  Is there anything I need to know about kind of thing And then let
• 22:33
  it go and then embrace and really put energy into those
• 22:37
  relationships that are continuing to show up for you.
• 22:41
  I think that's such a beautiful way of looking at that.
• 22:44
  So I really appreciate those examples and that not taking on
• 22:49
  other people's emotions and that's really hard.
• 22:53
  I am a recovering, still recovering, codependent major.
• 22:59
  Gonna fix everything, gonna take care of everybody, gonna make
• 23:02
  sure everything's good and right and in place so that there's no,
• 23:07
  you know, everybody's fine everything.
• 23:08
  Because that's what I did growing up to try to manage
• 23:11
  environments. And I had to learn over the
• 23:13
  years and even as my daughters got older.
• 23:16
  I have 3 granddaughters now at one point.
• 23:18
  My oldest is like, I don't need you to fix this.
• 23:21
  I just, I'm just, I'm just sharing.
• 23:24
  I'm just venting, releasing, you know, getting it out, it's
• 23:29
  helping me move it through. But I don't need you to fix
• 23:31
  this. I don't it's not your
• 23:32
  responsibility kind of thing. And it was really kind of an eye
• 23:35
  opening moment. And then also not taking on
• 23:38
  those people's emotions. I don't have to go down that
• 23:41
  road. I don't have to get anxious when
• 23:43
  they get anxious. I don't have to Their
• 23:45
  catastrophe does not have to become my catastrophe.
• 23:48
  I can support them through that and show up for them.
• 23:52
  But not taking that on yourself. And that's hard when you're not
• 23:57
  used to it, but when you, when you're able to reconcile the
• 24:00
  difference between that, it's very freeing and allows you to
• 24:04
  actually show up in a healthier way rather than just going in
• 24:09
  there and trying to take on everything and fix everything
• 24:12
  for everybody. And it gets in the way of us not
• 24:16
  being able to have any healthy space and place and boundaries
• 24:19
  in our lives. So you address that so well.
• 24:23
  I I want. To say 2 for anybody listening
• 24:26
  though, it's like, OK, that that's great.
• 24:29
  I don't think we this is something that we have to be
• 24:32
  aware of but not install like a yes or no box to this is all
• 24:37
  everything's in the grave, right?
• 24:39
  Everything is case by case and nuance.
• 24:41
  And I think sometimes that pisses us off as humans because
• 24:45
  we want things to be right and wrong.
• 24:47
  And it's just that it's not. And understanding that I think
• 24:53
  is huge because like going in with what we talked about
• 24:56
  earlier in this relationship with this friend, for example, I
• 24:59
  had talked to that person a number of times.
• 25:02
  I had expressed myself and expressed my emotions.
• 25:05
  And there's times where you're going to want to do that.
• 25:07
  You're going to want to see hate.
• 25:08
  I'm expressing, you know, XY and Z to you and want to collaborate
• 25:14
  with them to Co regulate the situation, to Co regulate you.
• 25:19
  There's times you're going to want to do that.
• 25:21
  For me, in this situation with this friend, I was not getting,
• 25:27
  if you will, like the responses that I wanted.
• 25:29
  I wasn't getting the change that I wanted.
• 25:30
  I had talked to this person a number of times and from there,
• 25:35
  then the boundary became within myself.
• 25:37
  I was like, OK, this is still great.
• 25:39
  And I had to check in because sometimes it's like they're not
• 25:41
  a great person and XYZ. But for me, I was like, OK, this
• 25:45
  is a great person. This is somebody I still want
• 25:47
  around. This is somebody I still have
• 25:49
  value with and they don't want to be as close as we were
• 25:56
  historically in the past. That doesn't mean that they
• 25:59
  don't love me now. They do make effort in their own
• 26:02
  little ways now. And you know what?
• 26:04
  Maybe that can just be. This is what our relationship
• 26:06
  looks like now. And for me, the mental boundary
• 26:10
  of that was within myself because my brain will still want
• 26:14
  to go and be like, Hey, look at all of the ways that this person
• 26:17
  is a prioritizing you, Joel, like, you know, really trying to
• 26:22
  hurt my feelings in here. But that boundary has to be
• 26:26
  within myself of like, OK, I this is where the relationship
• 26:30
  is now. I already decided I want this
• 26:32
  person around. I've already, you know, taken
• 26:36
  those efforts, but I, I just want to say that for everybody
• 26:39
  because I don't want anybody to hear this and to think like I'm
• 26:43
  saying, OK, you have to just deal with it all alone, right,
• 26:48
  'cause when I was really looking very perfectionistically or
• 26:52
  anxiously, when I was reading all these books and listening to
• 26:55
  all these podcasts for myself, trying to fix myself, that's
• 26:58
  what I was trying to do, is I was trying to find what are the
• 27:01
  right answers so I can get an A in life.
• 27:05
  And so I just want to say that in case there are any versions
• 27:08
  of of of me like and, and not necessarily of me, but any
• 27:13
  versions of people going through that as well, I want them to
• 27:16
  hear that. So thank you and sorry to
• 27:17
  interrupt. No, no, that was.
• 27:19
  Great, that was so good. I love that and that a in life
• 27:22
  thing. I was like, no, we've got to
• 27:24
  release ourselves from that and allow ourselves to be and and
• 27:29
  and just before we wrap up on that point, you so many times we
• 27:33
  go down the road when a relationship changes.
• 27:35
  What did I do wrong? What did I do wrong?
• 27:37
  Doesn't mean you did anything wrong.
• 27:40
  It doesn't mean they did. Anything.
• 27:42
  Wrong. I mean, sometimes just seasons
• 27:45
  just change and people go through different ebbs and
• 27:48
  flows. So that was such a good
• 27:50
  description of that and I appreciate you sharing that with
• 27:53
  me that because that's a vulnerable experience and that
• 27:56
  you've laid that out really well for people.
• 27:58
  And and so, and that really goes nicely into taking care of our
• 28:02
  emotional health, physical health, mental health,
• 28:06
  relational health, spiritual health, sexual health, I mean,
• 28:11
  all these components of our health for years and years and
• 28:15
  years, we hear all about go to the doctor, get your, you know,
• 28:18
  you know, for the, you know, the General practitioner, all that.
• 28:22
  And that's like prioritize. And then everything else is kind
• 28:25
  of treated as a sub let of that. I'm like, no, no, no, no.
• 28:30
  They are all connected. They all play off of each other
• 28:33
  and they they all need to be tended to.
• 28:36
  And you do that. You talk about that really well.
• 28:39
  So talk to me about your experience of kind of when you
• 28:42
  came to that point where you understood that connection
• 28:45
  because that really informs the work that you do now.
• 28:52
  When I understood the. Connection of how all these
• 28:55
  things play into each other, like all these different
• 28:57
  versions of health. OK, Yeah.
• 28:59
  Yeah. I think.
• 29:04
  For a long time. Again, I was trying to fix
• 29:07
  myself and I, I, I'm almost 29 and I'm not wearing makeup
• 29:11
  today. So I always look a little, a
• 29:13
  little bit more 16 when I, when I don't wear makeup.
• 29:17
  But you'll be thankful for that. In 30 years.
• 29:20
  So I've heard so I've heard yeah I I'm hopeful.
• 29:25
  I'm definitely fine lines have started to really pop up this
• 29:28
  year and, and, and shocked me. But anyway, I so when it comes
• 29:33
  to how all of these things played into each other, I think
• 29:38
  I was looking for such a long time of like, how can I feel
• 29:43
  worthy? And we talked about earlier and
• 29:45
  you said like you have to value yourself.
• 29:48
  And so I was looking again to get the a, so that way I could
• 29:52
  value myself. And I will say everything is a
• 29:55
  case by case basis. It really is my fundamental
• 29:58
  truth and probably because of my biases.
• 30:01
  Now, all of the research that I have seen to be very candid,
• 30:05
  like the research from Doctor Kristin Neff, from Doctor Ellen
• 30:08
  Hendrickson on compassion and social anxiety and and
• 30:12
  confidence and authenticity, all of this research brings me back
• 30:16
  to this, and that is acceptance. We have to live in some level of
• 30:25
  being willing to see a situation, being able to see the
• 30:27
  parts of this we don't like and to accept it.
• 30:31
  And what helped me do that? When it was hard.
• 30:36
  For me to do that myself was my relationships and it's such an
• 30:44
  inverse relationship. It was such because as the more
• 30:47
  I started again doing my research and learning, then the
• 30:52
  more I could accept that, if you will, acceptance from the people
• 30:55
  in my life. But I think that is what helped
• 30:58
  me really understand, OK, my individualistic point of view of
• 31:04
  I need to just focus on perfecting myself is not the
• 31:10
  way. And I get so much like we just
• 31:13
  talked about, right? Like I get like so much like my
• 31:16
  ability to focus, It's so funny. It's I say this all the time to
• 31:21
  my partner. My ability to focus on a given
• 31:23
  work day is always influenced normally by my cycle, but also
• 31:31
  if I. Had.
• 31:32
  Spent quality time connecting with somebody or somebody's.
• 31:39
  In the relatively. Days before my focus and my
• 31:43
  ability to manage my stress is so much better with that.
• 31:46
  So anyway, this is a long winded way of saying I think my
• 31:48
  relationships is when I really started to realize the
• 31:51
  connection of health. And from there, instead of
• 31:56
  looking at these things like fitness, looking at these things
• 32:00
  like like career and all of the other versions of help, even
• 32:04
  like social help, instead of looking at them as like, OK,
• 32:06
  here what the experts are saying I need to do to get an A+.
• 32:10
  It was just more so on OK, how can I start at this level of
• 32:14
  acceptance from where I am at? And then from there do things
• 32:19
  that are, you know, like meaningful and helpful to me
• 32:24
  with where I am at one point in time.
• 32:26
  And I, I tell this story I every so often, but it is like a
• 32:30
  little embarrassing being a full grown adult and admitting this.
• 32:34
  But I realized I was not eating like fruits and veggies every
• 32:37
  day. And I was like, oh, and if
• 32:40
  you're there right now, I'm no shame to you.
• 32:43
  I was there too where I was like, oh, I'm like not eating
• 32:48
  like first and vegetables every day, like what's going on?
• 32:51
  And so at one point, you know, and I had friends that were all
• 32:54
  about like nutrition and had all of these like gorgeous meal
• 32:57
  plans and whatever. And I could shame myself for not
• 33:01
  being there, right? But instead it was like, OK,
• 33:02
  here's where I'm at. I have some level of acceptance.
• 33:06
  And I've been living a little chaotically.
• 33:08
  I've been going for what's convenient.
• 33:10
  I can understand and be accepting of where I'm at.
• 33:13
  And then from there, OK, how can I introduce these things?
• 33:17
  And there's also, I think one thing that's helpful for
• 33:20
  everyone to know is we go through something called the
• 33:22
  stages of change. We hear all the time, right?
• 33:25
  Well, so we hear all the time change is not linear.
• 33:28
  And I'd be like, yeah, OK, whatever.
• 33:29
  But like kinda is right. Like I so like, you know, like I
• 33:33
  would not really absorb that. But scientifically, all truly
• 33:39
  change is not linear. We go through like the last
• 33:42
  stages of change, or one of them is called a relapse, and it's
• 33:47
  where you fall back into old patterns of behaviors.
• 33:50
  And so understanding that and accepting that as well that the
• 33:53
  journey wasn't going to be perfect allowed me to I connect
• 33:58
  and build on all these areas of health in my life and, and start
• 34:01
  with where I was at. But to answer your original
• 34:03
  question, what helped me realize the interconnectedness of all of
• 34:07
  these versions of health was experiencing acceptance in my
• 34:12
  relationships is one of your answer.
• 34:15
  Yeah, I love. That and I loved Kristin Neff is
• 34:19
  one of my favorite. Her work in the self compassion
• 34:22
  and empathy space is so powerful.
• 34:25
  I get her newsletter and I reference her a lot.
• 34:27
  She's so good and I think it's. So in in.
• 34:31
  In plays more of a role. We're finally starting to see
• 34:36
  research in these areas that that are all part of this.
• 34:40
  And it's like this is not less important than this other hard
• 34:44
  data. This is a part of that whole
• 34:46
  equation and it helps take the pressure off and just helps us
• 34:50
  understand where things are informed from.
• 34:53
  We're talking so much more about our cycles and the times of
• 34:56
  month that we might feel more productive and the times of
• 34:59
  month we went might be more contemplative or I mean, and,
• 35:03
  and, and being able to build our calendars and our work weeks and
• 35:08
  our energy and space around knowing, OK, this is going to be
• 35:12
  more of a week where I, I'm really kind of creating and, and
• 35:16
  contemplating and being very intuitive.
• 35:18
  This week is where I'm going to have a lot of energy and I'm
• 35:21
  going to go knock out all these things and I'm going to meet
• 35:23
  myself where I'm at. And you can't always do that.
• 35:26
  Sometimes it's just enough to know this is where my energy is
• 35:30
  today. So how can I best prepare myself
• 35:34
  to tackle the things on my calendar today?
• 35:36
  I still have to go do my job, my classes, whatever.
• 35:40
  But given where I'm at, what, what do I need to fill my cup
• 35:45
  today? And meeting yourself where
• 35:47
  you're at. But it's that overall awareness
• 35:49
  and getting away from that. There's this one A+ way that
• 35:52
  I've got to show up every day or I've failed.
• 35:56
  And it's like, take the the black, white, the good, bad, the
• 36:01
  fail excel language out of it and just give ourselves
• 36:07
  permission to show up as our healthiest, most authentic
• 36:11
  selves where we are that day giving ourselves what we need.
• 36:15
  And that's such a healthier way. And we're starting your
• 36:18
  generation is really nailing that.
• 36:20
  Your daughter, my daughters are all in your age group.
• 36:22
  They're they're 26, almost 28 and 30.
• 36:27
  And they're doing and there's just such a a healthier
• 36:31
  awareness about my life and my success, quote UN quote, success
• 36:38
  is not defined by this job and this dollar amount in this.
• 36:43
  I'm going to make sure that I'm living a full life that has room
• 36:48
  for healthy relationships, for time and things that I enjoy
• 36:51
  that nourish me. It's not going to be this, you
• 36:54
  know, 60 to 80 hour a week grind where I have this house and I
• 36:58
  have this car and I have this partner.
• 37:00
  And if I decide to have kids by ex age or I'm not successful, I
• 37:05
  mean, you, you guys have really seen the damage that that has
• 37:08
  done to the generation because our generation was the first
• 37:11
  generation where everybody went to college, which was, you know,
• 37:16
  and that's great. And also, college isn't for
• 37:19
  everybody. And it's like, OK, there's other
• 37:21
  things you can do. What?
• 37:22
  What do you care about? Are you more of a trade?
• 37:25
  Are you handy with your hands? I mean, there's just so many
• 37:28
  different ways to explore what's possible and also this pressure
• 37:33
  of having to decide your whole life by the time you're 22 when
• 37:37
  you're not brain isn't even fully formed until 25.
• 37:39
  Like we really missed that. I mean, and so they're right.
• 37:44
  So many of us were making decisions where I'm like, we
• 37:48
  weren't even fully grown and developed yet.
• 37:50
  When I look at my generation and all these things and you all
• 37:54
  have like watched us taken the things you've liked, but also
• 37:58
  like there's some things I think we can do better.
• 38:01
  There's some things I think we can do healthier.
• 38:04
  I don't even like the word better, healthier, more
• 38:06
  authentic in a way that's going to allow me to have a full life
• 38:11
  and not this partitioned out well.
• 38:13
  I'll work really hard during the week so I can play really hard
• 38:18
  on the weekend. No, I want I want to have a
• 38:20
  full, fulfilled, balanced life and space and all these paces
• 38:24
  and recognizing the way all these parts of our health pull
• 38:28
  into it. And you guys I think are setting
• 38:30
  a great example of how to do that you well.
• 38:35
  First of all, I think every generation rate learns from the
• 38:39
  previous. There's so many things that like
• 38:43
  y'all have learned that have, we have also adopted because you
• 38:46
  learned it. And I think that is so beautiful
• 38:49
  whenever you think about it. But one thing that I think you
• 38:52
  would love 'cause especially like I love that you're using
• 38:54
  this word healthy. That word healthy means
• 38:56
  something to me as well, where it's it's 'cause when we think
• 39:00
  about what it means to feel healthy, like think about
• 39:05
  everybody listening. It's a fun question to ask
• 39:08
  yourself. Like when do you feel?
• 39:11
  Feel in your body. Like the healthiest secret that
• 39:13
  I know it's not an emotion, but when do you feel the healthiest?
• 39:17
  Because for me, it's normally I'm walking around outside
• 39:21
  talking with two of my girlfriends, but you know,
• 39:25
  having a little bit of water, just walking around like that is
• 39:29
  when I feel my healthiest, not when I, you know, hit like the
• 39:33
  XYZ of all of the, the vitamins and smoothies and green stuff
• 39:40
  and have worked so much. And I think that's a great
• 39:43
  question for everybody. And it's something that social
• 39:47
  prescribing just to bring it up again that they, that world
• 39:51
  really talks about so much. And the root of social
• 39:56
  prescribing just so fun is they go instead of looking at what's
• 40:01
  the matter with you, what's wrong with you, right?
• 40:04
  And then looking at like even just on like a diagnosing basis,
• 40:07
  like what's looking at like what's wrong with you?
• 40:09
  And then give you medication to solve it, right?
• 40:11
  Instead of looking at that. So social prescribing asks first
• 40:15
  and foremost, what matters to you.
• 40:19
  So that way every individual can think about that, hear that.
• 40:24
  And then be like, OK, what is healthiest for me?
• 40:29
  So, yeah, just for everybody to ask themselves like, OK, what
• 40:31
  matters to them? Because that's probably how you
• 40:35
  will feel your healthiest. And so for some people, when it
• 40:40
  comes to social prescribing, what matters to them is being in
• 40:43
  community and fishing. Like that is a social
• 40:45
  prescription. For other people, it's swimming.
• 40:48
  For some people, it's art classes, the different kinds of
• 40:52
  creativity and play, which also kind of, if I go on a little bit
• 40:57
  of attention here, which allows me to as well say that as
• 41:02
  adults, we, like, are in this grind, right?
• 41:07
  And we're in this, like, culture of, like, improve, improve,
• 41:11
  achieve, you know, produce more and more.
• 41:15
  And we have forgotten how to play so much.
• 41:18
  Yeah. And one thing that was so
• 41:20
  interesting to me, Melissa, is that when I started treating
• 41:24
  myself with more self compassion, largely due to
• 41:28
  Doctor Kristin Nett's work in it, but I started treating
• 41:31
  myself with more self compassion.
• 41:32
  I started accepting more of myself.
• 41:34
  And again, I was doing all this research on connection, on how
• 41:38
  can I feel more connected to other people.
• 41:41
  And I started doing that and I realized I was like, oh, this
• 41:47
  feels like very playful. And at first I didn't think
• 41:51
  anything of it. I just thought it was like a
• 41:53
  unique experience to me. And then I started working with
• 41:55
  clients on it. And as I watched clients, you
• 41:59
  know, feel more comfortable being themselves, take, like,
• 42:02
  speak up in a meeting. When I've watched clients, like
• 42:05
  create friends, I have this beautiful story, it just
• 42:07
  happened of one of my clients that's a mom creating a
• 42:11
  community of moms that were like, yeah, I didn't have
• 42:14
  friends before you. It's wild to me and her where
• 42:18
  she lives. And now they all have like this,
• 42:21
  this group that gets together with all their kids all the
• 42:24
  time. It's so fun.
• 42:24
  But watching clients do that, one of the things that they
• 42:28
  almost always say to me is. I.
• 42:31
  Didn't realize how funny I was. I didn't realize how much fun I
• 42:37
  was. I haven't had this much.
• 42:39
  They say things like this to me often, and I think it's because
• 42:44
  when you are feeling you're healthiest and you have the
• 42:47
  community, you have the relationship with yourself, so
• 42:51
  you're starting to do more things that are supportive of
• 42:53
  you. You start to play more.
• 42:56
  As an adult and then that just reinforces the cycle.
• 42:59
  And I mean, like play creatively, intellectual play is
• 43:03
  a thing. This is intellectual play right
• 43:05
  now what we're doing. Yeah.
• 43:08
  And so, yeah, just to branch, branch into that as well.
• 43:13
  I think it's really fun for us to think about like, oh,
• 43:16
  healthiness and feeling good is also playful.
• 43:22
  I love that that's. Such a good thing to, to
• 43:26
  remember because my therapist literally brought it up with my
• 43:30
  husband and his surface. And we, we each have our own
• 43:33
  therapist. And they're like, your
• 43:36
  generation has forgotten how to play.
• 43:38
  You were taught, you were taught to work and achieve and set
• 43:42
  goals and get all these things and accumulate all this stuff so
• 43:45
  you could be prosperous and happy and have enough of enough,
• 43:49
  of enough of enough. And you've forgotten how to
• 43:52
  play. And so, you know, that's, you
• 43:55
  know, one of the things I talk about a lot with women are what
• 43:59
  are some activities that nourish you?
• 44:01
  What are some things that fill you up that give you those good
• 44:05
  endorphins? Because that's all that's a part
• 44:08
  of your help. That's healthy for you to do
• 44:11
  that. And my therapist be like, I want
• 44:14
  you to do something fun this weekend for no reason at all.
• 44:17
  It doesn't have to have a health benefit.
• 44:20
  It doesn't, you know, cuz I was like, well, yeah, that'll be
• 44:22
  what she's like. I don't care about that.
• 44:24
  Just go do something fun. Just off the cuff.
• 44:27
  This sounds like fun. Just go have fun.
• 44:29
  And I was like, I have to remember how to do that.
• 44:32
  And she goes, yes, you do. And that is the challenge.
• 44:35
  But yeah, we've lost, you know, lost touch with that and
• 44:39
  laughing and smiling and just all it feels healthy.
• 44:44
  It feels good. You feel connected with with the
• 44:48
  the interactions you're having. I mean, there's so much value in
• 44:51
  that. Thank you so much.
• 44:52
  I'm really interested. I mean, I, I understand the
• 44:56
  concept, but really getting the seriousness of and what I mean
• 45:01
  by seriousness and like really making this an act that is
• 45:04
  available to everybody in this social prescribing.
• 45:06
  I think there's so much in that because you get the connection
• 45:10
  you get, Yeah. And you find people that you
• 45:12
  have things in common with and you do those activities that you
• 45:15
  that nourish you with them, you have fun with them.
• 45:18
  And it's so many times these things.
• 45:20
  I mean, yes, we need time to fill our cups and quiet space
• 45:23
  and we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to be present all the
• 45:26
  time. And there's a lot of value and
• 45:28
  just sitting in the quiet for a moment and letting yourself
• 45:31
  regenerate. That's not.
• 45:33
  I'm not taking away from that, but there's just we
• 45:37
  underestimate the value of doing things in community, in
• 45:41
  connection where we don't feel isolated, where we don't feel
• 45:44
  alone. The mom sing is such a great
• 45:46
  example. I remember when I I stopped
• 45:49
  working after my third child was born and stayed home for 10
• 45:52
  years. And I say stayed home with
• 45:54
  quotes because I was busier then that's when I went back to work.
• 45:59
  But because you but one of the first things I was mindful of
• 46:04
  like this is going to be a big adjustment for me.
• 46:07
  I really love I really enjoy my work.
• 46:10
  And there were really good reasons behind this decision and
• 46:13
  it was my choice and I'm lucky that I get to make it.
• 46:16
  And also I can't just throw out the social engagement with
• 46:19
  adults that I was getting. And so I immediately I joined in
• 46:24
  that area, I joined my local Junior League and I make
• 46:26
  connections with other women. And it doesn't have to be that I
• 46:30
  just, there was one in my community that I connected with
• 46:32
  really well. There was a lot of women my age
• 46:34
  at the time with kids my age or some didn't have kids.
• 46:38
  And that really was huge in that trends as I, I transitioned into
• 46:45
  this new space and time. I didn't have to give that up
• 46:49
  and I could connect, still have those connections and places to
• 46:53
  be creative, have fun, laugh with adults.
• 46:57
  And, and I'm, I'm, it was a better mom to my kids when I did
• 47:01
  that. I didn't have to, you know, I
• 47:03
  didn't have to just pour all of my energy into them all the
• 47:06
  time. I could go fill my own cup and
• 47:08
  my own energy. It made me more present and and
• 47:12
  more. Happy and content.
• 47:15
  To be with them when I was with them, so, so much value in that.
• 47:19
  I am so glad you brought that up.
• 47:21
  And I think that's such an important component for us to
• 47:24
  continue to be curious about and make sure we have an element of
• 47:27
  our lives. And I have, you know, I said I
• 47:30
  have three daughters. My youngest is an introvert.
• 47:32
  For her, relationships are valuable to her.
• 47:35
  She doesn't have a huge amount, but the ones she has her people
• 47:39
  are her people and it is and she's very connected with them
• 47:44
  and very does activities that nourish her with them.
• 47:47
  And it's a big part of her Wellness, you know, journey and
• 47:53
  part of her life. So it's it's, I think too, it's
• 47:56
  like sometimes it's, it's just making sure that if you do it in
• 48:00
  a way that's authentic to you, you don't.
• 48:02
  She doesn't do it the way I do it, the extrovert, but she does
• 48:05
  it in a way that's authentic for her.
• 48:07
  But she also recognizes the value of that and and the
• 48:10
  importance that that has. And this really goes nicely into
• 48:13
  how we can support ourselves and other women in living
• 48:17
  unapologetically. You have talked about already
• 48:21
  that pressure you felt for so many years to be a plus.
• 48:25
  Read all the self improvement books and you've got to a point
• 48:27
  where like this is not serving me.
• 48:29
  This is not, I am not my healthiest authentic self this
• 48:34
  way. It's making me judgmental.
• 48:36
  It's putting unrealistic expectations on my life that are
• 48:39
  becoming a burden and a cost in my my health instead of helping
• 48:44
  it. So I am not going to do that to
• 48:47
  myself anymore. I'm going to meet myself where
• 48:49
  I'm at am, accept all these parts of me, get curious about
• 48:54
  the parts that maybe I don't love as much or understand and
• 48:57
  show up. I call it showing up
• 48:59
  unapologetically as myself. And now you're doing work that
• 49:04
  helps other women do the same thing.
• 49:07
  So when did you decide that? You've talked about being in
• 49:10
  school and, and, and working on your master's Now is it?
• 49:14
  Are you working on an MFA? I'm working.
• 49:17
  On master's in social work to be a licensed awful social work OK,
• 49:22
  OK. OK, my my daughter was on that
• 49:24
  path for a while. She was actually at University
• 49:26
  of Michigan for a year in their program.
• 49:29
  I'm from Michigan. America Oh my gosh, so fun.
• 49:34
  And she decided to go a. Different route, but yeah, I
• 49:37
  mean, she was on that trajectory for a while.
• 49:39
  So there's a lot of things you learn just academically going
• 49:42
  through that program and those processes, but also you have
• 49:45
  your own personal journey. So when did you decide?
• 49:48
  It's like, you know what, I've learned some things and I think
• 49:52
  I can help some other people also show up in this this
• 49:56
  healthier way and remove that that burden of the social
• 50:00
  anxiety and learn how to meet myself where I'm at and the
• 50:03
  importance of connecting with others in relationships within
• 50:07
  this. So when did you kind of make
• 50:08
  that transition of understanding?
• 50:10
  I've gotten here and I want to help others get here too.
• 50:14
  Yeah. Truthfully, when I started
• 50:18
  learning about this, and you know, one of the words that I
• 50:21
  used, one of my characteristics, I describe myself at the
• 50:24
  beginning of this episode, which is such a beautiful exercise
• 50:27
  that you offer people like such a gift.
• 50:29
  But one of the words I said, it was curious and.
• 50:34
  It is. That could not encapsulate so
• 50:39
  much of my personality as my partner would tell everybody.
• 50:43
  Every day I'm like, hey, guess what I learned today?
• 50:46
  Are you ready for a master class?
• 50:48
  And he's like, I'm trying to go to sleep, right?
• 50:52
  So. It's but part.
• 50:55
  Of it was truly, I think, growing up feeling so lonely and
• 51:00
  feeling like when you grew up in emotional, emotionally volatile
• 51:03
  household. One thing that's really common
• 51:06
  is something that, Oh my gosh, I can't remember her name, but she
• 51:10
  wrote the book called like Adult Kids, Emotionally Immature
• 51:15
  Parents. I can't remember who.
• 51:16
  Anybody's interested. I have that book and I can't.
• 51:20
  I don't. Have it in front of me, but it's
• 51:22
  very, very, very good. Very good shout out to that
• 51:25
  author. Yeah, everybody, we'll check.
• 51:27
  We'll check them out. On our behalf.
• 51:28
  Yeah, I so we'll link that in I. Have the book, I'll link it in
• 51:33
  our the resources. It's beautiful.
• 51:36
  They want. This person to get credit, they
• 51:37
  taught me so much. So thank you for that.
• 51:39
  Yeah, I and they described something called emotional
• 51:43
  loneliness. And so I think growing up with
• 51:46
  that and not feeling safe and secure in my relationships,
• 51:50
  really struggling to feel lonely that for me, I was very curious
• 51:55
  about what made people connect right again, I had a lot of
• 52:00
  social anxiety. It was also extroverted.
• 52:02
  So I did this really fun thing where I either went mute and
• 52:06
  wood forest myself to be around people all the time and judge
• 52:08
  myself for like not talking enough.
• 52:11
  Oh yeah, I would be really graspy talk so much and
• 52:16
  overshare at the like the me trying to force connection with
• 52:22
  other people because yes, extroverts can have social
• 52:25
  anxiety all and that's typically what it looks like.
• 52:28
  So I I really struggled with that.
• 52:32
  And so I was so curious what made people connect?
• 52:36
  What made somebody like a charismatic person?
• 52:41
  Because I was watching all these people connect so easily around
• 52:46
  me, especially when I was in college.
• 52:47
  And everybody would tell me all the time.
• 52:49
  So they would say, oh, things will get better as you get
• 52:51
  older. And then I graduated college,
• 52:53
  they're still struggling. And I was like, OK, this is not
• 52:55
  changing. And if anything, it was getting
• 52:58
  worse, to be frank. And so.
• 53:02
  I. Was like, I need to figure this
• 53:04
  out for myself. I, you know, I went to college,
• 53:07
  I put myself in all these spaces and yeah, I helped maybe a
• 53:11
  little bit like the exposure. But that inner critic that I had
• 53:15
  that was so hard on me, the ability, my attachment style and
• 53:19
  my like, difficulty connecting with other people, I'll say I
• 53:23
  want to figure this out. So I studied what made people
• 53:27
  friends. Turns out there's a science to
• 53:28
  it. There's a friendship science.
• 53:30
  I studied what made people feel connected.
• 53:32
  I studied charisma for me, myself and I not going to tell
• 53:39
  anybody about it. And then people started asking
• 53:43
  me originally like, oh, how did you get so confident all of a
• 53:47
  sudden? And then I got really into like
• 53:50
  coaching stuff. And I thought I was just going
• 53:51
  to do that on the side. And I thought I was just gonna,
• 53:54
  you know, go to grad school, get a job and I'll just like, do a
• 53:56
  little bit of this on the side. And like a few clients.
• 53:58
  I was like 3. I was so happy with that.
• 54:00
  Like you static. And then like, 'cause I was
• 54:04
  really studying this work behind the scenes and I created a
• 54:07
  friend group, like to one of my friends, one of my long time
• 54:12
  friends, like childhood friends said it felt like out of
• 54:14
  nowhere. And they're like, all of a
• 54:17
  sudden you just have this new friend.
• 54:18
  Group. So I created this friend group
• 54:21
  in my. If you will like my charisma, my
• 54:24
  authenticity, my confidence in myself really grew as well.
• 54:28
  And then people started asking me about it.
• 54:31
  Because here's the thing, like you can't learn about those
• 54:34
  topics and not know that we are in a loneliness epidemic.
• 54:38
  You can't learn about those topics and not be mind blown
• 54:41
  that loneliness has been steadily increasing since the
• 54:43
  1970s. That the number of confidants
• 54:46
  that we have confidence, our closest relationships, like the
• 54:50
  highest tier, like the people that we call when stuff hits the
• 54:55
  fan, the people that we call when we're just even, like we
• 55:00
  don't mind inconveniencing them a little bit because that's how
• 55:03
  close we are. We don't mind when they
• 55:04
  inconvenience us because that's how rejuvenating the connection
• 55:06
  is, right? And so the number of confidants
• 55:11
  that we have had historically has gone down.
• 55:13
  Social anxiety is on the rise and there's so many things you
• 55:16
  could save at all of us, so I knew.
• 55:19
  I knew. Logically, oh, I'm not the only
• 55:24
  one, but it is an entirely different experience when people
• 55:29
  are like almost like pulling you aside a little bit and like
• 55:31
  whispering to you like, hey, how did how did you make these
• 55:35
  friends? Hey, I see you're like going on
• 55:38
  all these like girl trips can I come?
• 55:41
  I've been feeling really lonely and like, hey you, what
• 55:44
  something's changed about you? And I need to know what it is
• 55:47
  because I'm feeling really like socially anxious.
• 55:51
  And so when that started happening.
• 55:54
  And at the time granted. This was five years ago.
• 55:57
  A friendship has become kind of a hot topic in the last year,
• 56:00
  which like beautiful love it. So, so glad there was like
• 56:04
  nobody at the time like talking about it.
• 56:08
  There was one person. Her name is Shasta Nelson.
• 56:10
  That is it truly that I could find.
• 56:13
  And because I looked I read all of the work.
• 56:15
  I read everybody's work that was studying on this stuff.
• 56:18
  So I realized then, oh, I want to be a voice for this.
• 56:25
  Like I want to just share that. And it kind of evolved from
• 56:29
  there. I mean, the pandemic hit people,
• 56:32
  you know, surprise, surprise, were in their houses feeling
• 56:34
  really lonely and realizing all of their mental health.
• 56:38
  And then ever since then I've been, I've been full time in
• 56:41
  this ever since. So it, it was something I will
• 56:46
  say that I always wanted to help people and whatever I thought I
• 56:50
  was going to go to grad school for, it was always going to be
• 56:52
  in relation to help people. I always knew that about myself.
• 56:57
  I just didn't know what was possible for me in this kind of
• 57:03
  business until it started happening to be very, yeah.
• 57:08
  I understand that I so many times that's how it goes.
• 57:11
  You think you're, you're on one track and then you're like, you
• 57:13
  learned this other thing like, oh, this is it.
• 57:16
  This is what's authentic to me. This is, this is what I'm going
• 57:19
  to do. And you said so many things
• 57:23
  there that I've really resonated.
• 57:25
  I love the piece about the continuing theme of
• 57:29
  relationship, but also you just like, OK, I'm going to try this
• 57:31
  thing. But you the social anxiety
• 57:34
  piece. People think that social anxiety
• 57:37
  is only for people that are shy or they're extroverts or those
• 57:42
  kinds of things. And I can tell you as a lifelong
• 57:46
  extrovert, the social anxiety is real when you're, when you're
• 57:50
  trying, when you're, when you're learning or you haven't learned
• 57:54
  yet, that it's your responsibility and your work to
• 57:58
  do to make sure you're, you're happy, you're content.
• 58:01
  You don't need to impress anyone.
• 58:03
  People that will be drawn to you, that are authentically for
• 58:08
  you, but that you also teach them how to treat you by how you
• 58:11
  show up in a room in a group. And I remember being in
• 58:16
  different groups and spaces and like trying thinking in my head,
• 58:19
  what can I say that'll sound really impressive?
• 58:21
  What can I say that will make them want to talk to me more?
• 58:25
  What can I say or what topic can I bring up that'll make me seem
• 58:29
  really cool and relatable? I mean, all that's swimming
• 58:32
  around my head and instead of just showing up as I am and just
• 58:36
  being who I am and I not everybody's for me.
• 58:39
  I am an extrovert. I am a talker that's not for
• 58:43
  everybody. And I can kind of figure out
• 58:45
  pretty quickly those people that that are not as interested in
• 58:50
  gauging with me that way. And I can adjust accordingly to
• 58:53
  when I know, not because I'm trying to please anybody, but
• 58:56
  just to be like this person. That's not where they meet me.
• 59:00
  So I, you know, I, I will keep, you know, keep my answers
• 59:04
  shorter and more measured, you know, out of respect for them,
• 59:07
  but also just they're, but they're also never going to be
• 59:10
  one of my closest relationships because.
• 59:12
  And that's OK too. We just show up in the world
• 59:15
  differently. But that and I remember just
• 59:18
  feeling the anxiety in my chest and my blood pressure rising as
• 59:22
  I was feeling this pressure that I was putting on myself.
• 59:27
  No one was asking this of me. This was entirely created in my
• 59:32
  own head through years and years of trying to show up in a way
• 59:37
  that was acceptable for, you know, and a lot of noise and
• 59:42
  thoughts and narratives in my head that were not truth that I
• 59:45
  was treating as truth that I had to unpack and get curious about
• 59:49
  and ask the why behind and and figure out.
• 59:52
  Oh, no, that's just an old narrative pattern.
• 59:56
  That's not actually true versus what was.
• 59:59
  But I, I'm so glad that you mentioned that social anxiety
• 1:00:03
  piece is not is can be as present because it can really, I
• 1:00:08
  think stop and make you think. You know, if if your head
• 1:00:12
  stirring like that when you're having these conversations,
• 1:00:15
  you're feeling this pressure, where's that coming from?
• 1:00:18
  What is the? What is the narrative, the story
• 1:00:21
  behind that? What do you, What is it
• 1:00:23
  impacting you in that way and unpack that, get curious about
• 1:00:27
  that. It's going to help you show up
• 1:00:29
  so much healthier, so much more at ease when you can can unpack
• 1:00:33
  that and, and get to what's in there and heal and release the
• 1:00:38
  things that are keeping you in that space, right?
• 1:00:42
  Right. Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  And if anybody else is hearing that and they're like, Oh my
• 1:00:47
  gosh, I have had that experience.
• 1:00:50
  You might also because it was really confusing to me because I
• 1:00:54
  was like, OK, I'm also a go getter.
• 1:00:57
  Like I'm like putting myself out here a little bit for like for,
• 1:01:02
  you know, like projects. I am, you know, working hard.
• 1:01:06
  Like I'm confident in myself in all these other ways, but social
• 1:01:09
  confidence is its own entire thing, just like social anxiety
• 1:01:13
  is its own entire thing. And so if anybody else is
• 1:01:17
  feeling that way, one thing I wanna offer, because I find this
• 1:01:20
  especially true for my my female clients, is that they hear that.
• 1:01:24
  And then they, they realize they're having this experience
• 1:01:26
  and they're like the chatter in my head.
• 1:01:28
  I'm doing exactly what you said. Most words they're like, I'm
• 1:01:31
  trying to say the perfect thing, which that is always a red flag
• 1:01:34
  of like social anxiety. I'm trying to say the perfect
• 1:01:37
  thing that's going to make everybody be so impressed and
• 1:01:39
  like wowed by me. I one thing I want everyone to
• 1:01:43
  hear if they are in that space. Because this advice is.
• 1:01:47
  Thrown around so much and it's well meaning, but it's a little
• 1:01:50
  misguided and it's this advice of like, OK, we'll just stop
• 1:01:53
  caring what other people think. And that is sometimes, most of
• 1:01:59
  the time our opinion not actually helpful because people
• 1:02:03
  like me and you were really empathetic, right?
• 1:02:06
  Like you don't have a podcast called feel if you don't care
• 1:02:09
  about other people, like empowering other people to feel
• 1:02:13
  good and to accept their emotions, right.
• 1:02:15
  So I'm, I, I guess that was an assessment I made about you, but
• 1:02:19
  I think I'm on the right track there.
• 1:02:21
  Yes, right. So great.
• 1:02:25
  So I empathetic people like us like when we're thinking, oh, I,
• 1:02:30
  I just need to stop caring what other people think about me.
• 1:02:33
  That can actually have you feel more shut off and almost like
• 1:02:38
  put on this like guise of like, OK, I'm going to be unbothered.
• 1:02:41
  And that's not authentic to you either.
• 1:02:43
  You're an empathetic person, right?
• 1:02:45
  You care about not offending people.
• 1:02:47
  You care about, you know, making sure if somebody did got cut off
• 1:02:51
  mid story that they get to finish it.
• 1:02:53
  That's a beautiful part of you. And so by trying to just like
• 1:02:56
  not care what other people think, I actually made my
• 1:03:01
  anxiety and self esteem worse because then I, I just didn't
• 1:03:04
  feel as connected to other people.
• 1:03:06
  And then I was like, oh, why am I not feeling connected?
• 1:03:08
  So if anybody is doing that one thing that I want to have, y'all
• 1:03:13
  like no. And it's gonna blow your mind
• 1:03:16
  and you're gonna be like, Oh my gosh, how did I not know this?
• 1:03:19
  It's gonna blow your mind. But it's at the opposite of
• 1:03:22
  social anxiety. Is not confidence the opposite
• 1:03:28
  of social anxiety? Is psychopathy?
• 1:03:33
  Is like being a psychopath and you would be like what really it
• 1:03:38
  is. The people.
• 1:03:40
  In the world that are walking around that don't have any level
• 1:03:44
  at all of social anxiety, that don't care about social
• 1:03:47
  acceptance at all. And I think too, I'm at a point
• 1:03:50
  now, right where like I would say my quote UN quote social
• 1:03:54
  anxieties more just like social alertness, like I'm aware of
• 1:03:57
  like, yeah, like right, micro expressions I'm aware of like I
• 1:04:00
  wanna again, I, I interrupted you at the beginning or in the
• 1:04:02
  middle of this podcast, I care to pause and hear about and make
• 1:04:07
  sure I, I stop interrupting you, right.
• 1:04:09
  So my social alertness, I would say, is there, but the people
• 1:04:11
  that do not have that are psychopaths.
• 1:04:15
  So everybody let that settle in for a second.
• 1:04:19
  This social. Alertness isn't all bad, it
• 1:04:21
  doesn't all need to go away. And what we need to do with the
• 1:04:25
  actual antidote for this is, is self esteem.
• 1:04:29
  And we build self esteem through self acceptance and self
• 1:04:35
  compassion. That's it.
• 1:04:38
  Most of the time when I was walking around feeling
• 1:04:41
  emotionally lonely and like trying to do what you said and
• 1:04:44
  impress everybody and say the right thing at the right time in
• 1:04:47
  the right way, so everybody adored me and thought I was so
• 1:04:51
  amazing. Whenever I was trying to do
• 1:04:53
  that, it was often because I had so much shame within myself that
• 1:04:58
  I didn't want other people to see I didn't.
• 1:05:01
  Want other people to see? The things I was ashamed of.
• 1:05:05
  And when you deal with? Those things that you're ashamed
• 1:05:07
  of, when you deal with them on self compassion and self
• 1:05:10
  acceptance, you build self esteem.
• 1:05:13
  That right there, everybody is how I have.
• 1:05:16
  That's honestly, that is the secret.
• 1:05:19
  It's harder than I'm making it sound here, but simply here.
• 1:05:22
  It takes some work, it takes some practice.
• 1:05:24
  That's why I have a career. That's why I have a job because
• 1:05:26
  I hold people's hands while they practice that.
• 1:05:28
  But but that is it. That is the secret, if you will,
• 1:05:34
  to overcome social anxiety. I love.
• 1:05:38
  That thank you so much for that explanation.
• 1:05:40
  That was really, really helpful. And I think so much in there to
• 1:05:45
  remember into like, oh, OK, that makes sense.
• 1:05:51
  And in your right, it is like it's a simple concept, not but
• 1:05:56
  not necessarily simple to execute.
• 1:05:58
  Like it's like, oh, OK, if I do that, then this I get that.
• 1:06:02
  And also I got to like actually do that.
• 1:06:04
  I actually. And it yeah, I actually have to
• 1:06:07
  put in the work. But thank you for that was wow.
• 1:06:09
  And it makes sense when you think about it because I mean,
• 1:06:13
  when you put all the pieces together, like people at first,
• 1:06:16
  when they hear the word psychopath are like, well,
• 1:06:18
  psychopaths don't have emotional connections to people they don't
• 1:06:21
  care about. That's why it doesn't bother
• 1:06:24
  them to do psychopathic things because they don't have that
• 1:06:28
  ability to connect in a way that leads them to caring,
• 1:06:31
  compassion, caring what other people think.
• 1:06:33
  So it makes scientifically it's like, oh, well, yeah, that makes
• 1:06:36
  sense in our wiring. But yeah, that that I think it's
• 1:06:40
  that it goes back to that layers piece and it that we in
• 1:06:45
  accepting the parts of ourselves you talked about earlier.
• 1:06:49
  And I think this is really important to come back to.
• 1:06:51
  And the next talking point is coming back to your why and your
• 1:06:54
  values and everything you do. And you talked about earlier
• 1:06:58
  when, you know, we were trying to figure out what's wrong with
• 1:07:01
  US versus what feels healthy to me, what sounds helpful to me,
• 1:07:08
  What, what, when do I feel my healthiest going back and
• 1:07:12
  identifying those values that you hold and taking a look at
• 1:07:16
  your life. And it isn't in alignment with
• 1:07:20
  that. Are you engaging in your life in
• 1:07:23
  a way that's in alignment with those values, in alignment with
• 1:07:27
  those things that feel healthiest and most authentic to
• 1:07:30
  who you are and what who you were, how you were created to be
• 1:07:35
  you? Understood.
• 1:07:36
  Early on about yourself, I know I want to do something in a in a
• 1:07:40
  place and way that I can help people.
• 1:07:42
  But you learned as you learned your values are huge around
• 1:07:48
  relationships. That's a big part of your
• 1:07:50
  healthcare. You learned how to show up in
• 1:07:53
  your why and your values in that.
• 1:07:55
  So you've really kind of already answered this, but I just wanted
• 1:07:59
  to really bring back home that the value in the values and in
• 1:08:05
  asking the right questions. And you've done that really
• 1:08:08
  well. And was it an epiphany moment
• 1:08:12
  when you realized you got there, or was it just kind of this
• 1:08:14
  gradual thing you grew into? I know creating that friend
• 1:08:18
  group was a big part of it, but talk to me about that
• 1:08:21
  transition. Yeah, I.
• 1:08:24
  Think I really appreciate you asking that because I, I think
• 1:08:34
  that a lot of times epiphanies are rare than we think and that
• 1:08:41
  a lot of times they look like having meltdowns because you
• 1:08:44
  realize you're not aligned in what you're doing.
• 1:08:46
  Yeah. And you're like, Oh my.
• 1:08:48
  Gosh, I do not wanna do this anymore.
• 1:08:50
  And so then you figure it out. But I think for me.
• 1:08:54
  Like I am, I am. Now able it it's funny because
• 1:08:57
  somebody could probably be able to see five years ago and I
• 1:09:01
  started you know, coaching individuals on social confidence
• 1:09:05
  and making friends and you know charismatic leadership and I
• 1:09:08
  started coaching them on that somebody would probably be like
• 1:09:11
  wow, you really value connection and relationships but I think.
• 1:09:18
  For me it's. The asking myself those
• 1:09:23
  questions all of the time about OK, what matters the most to me
• 1:09:30
  and I'm doing that right now to be very vulnerable.
• 1:09:33
  I am doing that right now where I am thinking about OK, what do
• 1:09:37
  I want to do next? Because I've loved what I've
• 1:09:41
  done. But again, I've done this for
• 1:09:42
  the past five years. So it's been fun and it's
• 1:09:43
  amazing. But I'm I'm looking to do new
• 1:09:46
  things is part of the reason why I'm back in school.
• 1:09:48
  And so anyway, I am exploring like speaking to colleges.
• 1:09:52
  I just got back from a, a college conference.
• 1:09:57
  It's called NACA. And so to like pitch myself to
• 1:10:01
  those students. And so I'm exploring right now
• 1:10:04
  again, OK. I know it's these.
• 1:10:08
  Topics I have again, I have so much experience of like helping
• 1:10:12
  people. Now I wanna do something
• 1:10:13
  different with it. I'm doing that again and it's
• 1:10:16
  painful and it's hard in your brain, especially if you grow up
• 1:10:20
  in an environment that's, you know, volatile in any kind of
• 1:10:24
  way. Or honestly, if you just grow up
• 1:10:25
  in this culture that we live in, you adopt A lot of like
• 1:10:29
  professionistic tendencies, especially for women and
• 1:10:33
  minorities. That is something that we is
• 1:10:37
  really pushed on us like this level of professionism.
• 1:10:39
  And so I'm doing it again right now where I'm just asking myself
• 1:10:44
  again, like, what matters to me and what's important to me?
• 1:10:49
  And like, I was telling my partner this because the
• 1:10:54
  question before used to be like, what do I want to do with my
• 1:10:59
  life? What do I want to achieve in my
• 1:11:01
  life? And I don't necessarily think
• 1:11:02
  those questions are wrong. But for me, what is most helpful
• 1:11:09
  is to ask myself like, OK, what kind of experience do I want to
• 1:11:14
  have? And when I say experience,
• 1:11:16
  because it doesn't always mean right, Like I'm, you know, like
• 1:11:21
  laying in the beach, like feeling nice.
• 1:11:23
  And that's the experience I want to have my entire life.
• 1:11:26
  But like, what kind of experience do I want to have?
• 1:11:28
  And that's what led me to be at the college circuit anyway,
• 1:11:34
  because I was like, oh, I want to like be speaking to like
• 1:11:37
  groups of people about these things.
• 1:11:41
  That's an experience that I want to have.
• 1:11:45
  So hopefully that kind of answers the question, but I I
• 1:11:50
  don't think it's an epiphany. It's been ever evolving and I
• 1:11:53
  think it will always be. And I think it is for everybody.
• 1:11:57
  Yeah, too. I think so too.
• 1:11:59
  Yes, and I I, I jumped, I got excited because you hate this so
• 1:12:05
  well, keep asking yourself. We so many times we settle and
• 1:12:12
  we just keep doing the same things and then we're feeling
• 1:12:15
  angsty and we're feeling unsettled and we're feeling out
• 1:12:18
  of alignment and we're just kind of pushing it back and ignoring
• 1:12:21
  it like, no, I got to do this thing.
• 1:12:22
  I got to do the like, yeah. Do you have to Is there some are
• 1:12:26
  there places you can make adjustments?
• 1:12:29
  Are there places you can make sure?
• 1:12:30
  Are you, have you asked yourself lately?
• 1:12:33
  You know, we'll wrap this up in in a few minutes and I'm going
• 1:12:37
  to ask you 5 words on how you. Want to?
• 1:12:39
  Feel the next six months and I bring that up because it's so
• 1:12:43
  important to remain curious because seasons change, we get
• 1:12:48
  older, we move, relationships shift.
• 1:12:51
  You know, you, you, you're in a partnership, you're single, you
• 1:12:57
  have kids, you don't have kids, they leave.
• 1:12:59
  I mean, job titles change. You get a new job, you lose a
• 1:13:02
  job. Parents dynamics.
• 1:13:05
  I mean, there's just, it's always ever evolving.
• 1:13:08
  And so it's interesting to me that knowing that that is always
• 1:13:12
  ever evolving that we don't consider, well, that means that
• 1:13:16
  I'm going to have value shifts because I'm going to learn more
• 1:13:20
  or I'm going to be in a different time or season or
• 1:13:22
  space. So of course there's going to be
• 1:13:25
  a shift. But we stop asking and we just
• 1:13:28
  settle and we get comfortable. We don't stay curious and then
• 1:13:33
  we wonder why we get to 4045556065 and be like what's
• 1:13:39
  happened to my life and why do I feel so unsettled like you
• 1:13:42
  stopped asking the questions you stayed in the same space as.
• 1:13:48
  You were. In 3020, thirty years ago.
• 1:13:51
  But a bazillion things have happened since then that have
• 1:13:55
  changed your values and what you care about and the kind of
• 1:13:58
  experiences that that fill you up and nourish you.
• 1:14:02
  So you hit that so well. And I'm so thank you for that.
• 1:14:05
  That was really, really, it's such a healthy way to look at
• 1:14:09
  that. Thank you and it really breathes
• 1:14:13
  nicely into living out of your own expectations versus others.
• 1:14:18
  My expectation for my life is that I will continue to be
• 1:14:21
  curious and ask questions. I won't settle.
• 1:14:25
  I won't. I I I won't.
• 1:14:30
  I will notice when something's out of alignment and I will
• 1:14:34
  address it. I won't just because I I people,
• 1:14:38
  it's very easy to get comfortable and complacent.
• 1:14:41
  You're comfortable with a group of people, you're comfortable in
• 1:14:44
  a place, you're comfortable with the amount of money you're
• 1:14:46
  making, you're comfortable in a neighborhood.
• 1:14:49
  But when's the last time you got curious and have you gotten
• 1:14:52
  complacent? And complacency is a very
• 1:14:55
  dangerous place to live. And we're seeing a lot of that
• 1:14:58
  in our country right now where I think people have gotten
• 1:15:03
  complacent and it's becoming a very serious problem.
• 1:15:08
  And they're not seeing their level of responsibility and
• 1:15:12
  their comfort and complacency and the problems it's causing
• 1:15:16
  across the board. And so you've nailed this down
• 1:15:21
  really well, that ability to just live out of your own
• 1:15:26
  expectations and not try to satisfy and get an A+ at life
• 1:15:32
  anymore. Do you have anything else you
• 1:15:33
  want to add to that? You've spoken to this so well
• 1:15:36
  already, but what comes to mind for you when I say that?
• 1:15:41
  Yeah. Well, first of all, Melissa, I
• 1:15:44
  just want to thank you for your energy and your openness and
• 1:15:50
  your kindness and your enthusiasm.
• 1:15:52
  This has been one of the most fun interviews I think I've ever
• 1:15:57
  had and I've done like over a pod, like 100 podcast interviews
• 1:16:00
  at this point. And this has been so fun.
• 1:16:03
  So thank you for like the, the questions and what you've shared
• 1:16:07
  and your energy and even just asking me that question now I I
• 1:16:10
  really think. I.
• 1:16:14
  And you know, I'm actually going to say this for myself.
• 1:16:17
  This is because this is the stage I'm at right now where I'm
• 1:16:21
  at this stage where it's really easy.
• 1:16:22
  It's tempting to get overwhelmed about the next stage and to be
• 1:16:26
  like, ah, I don't know, like, are we gonna be OK?
• 1:16:31
  It's it's tempting, true. Like I am holding you to easily
• 1:16:35
  go. Down that rabbit hole, right?
• 1:16:38
  Right. And I, I have been really
• 1:16:40
  holding that and there's a lot of times where, you know, it
• 1:16:42
  brings me to tears just like holding that recently.
• 1:16:45
  And so I think what I would say to myself as far as like living
• 1:16:49
  in my own expectations is that I am working to build a life now.
• 1:17:01
  Like if it's almost like building the next phase, that
• 1:17:03
  I'll build a life 'cause this, this business has done really
• 1:17:06
  well for the past five years. So I'm very grateful.
• 1:17:08
  And as I'm starting basically like a new chapter of it, it's
• 1:17:11
  really scary it and it feels even a little like survival, to
• 1:17:15
  be frank. Like there's a little bit of
• 1:17:17
  like, Oh no, like, are we going to be OK?
• 1:17:21
  Like financially, et cetera. And can we really do the these
• 1:17:24
  next things that we're talking about?
• 1:17:26
  And So what I would say to myself as far as like not
• 1:17:29
  settling and living out of my own expectations and not other
• 1:17:34
  people's is like to keep going back to the experience I want to
• 1:17:38
  have. Mm hmm.
• 1:17:40
  And to focus on those things as well as like part of that for me
• 1:17:45
  right now. Is to make sure.
• 1:17:48
  That, you know, I have the time freedom to be able to become a
• 1:17:53
  mom. And so just keep focusing on
• 1:17:58
  building that life experience. And I will say and doing what I
• 1:18:02
  can now to have it because yes, I'm not putting on having
• 1:18:06
  children anytime soon, but as I'm in this phase, we're truly,
• 1:18:11
  I'm working a lot with like an internship and with school, it
• 1:18:18
  feels like two of those days a week are for free, like working
• 1:18:22
  for other people. I'm starting this new chapter
• 1:18:26
  where like again, it's, it's not as established as like the other
• 1:18:30
  parts of my business are. So it's not bringing anything in
• 1:18:33
  yet. And so to give myself as much as
• 1:18:37
  I can, the experience that I want to have now too, as I build
• 1:18:41
  that because that's that's the stage I am in now.
• 1:18:44
  For everybody else listening though.
• 1:18:47
  I think maybe. What people can take from that
• 1:18:50
  or like if you were working on any kind of goal or if you were
• 1:18:53
  even just in a phase where you're figuring out what your
• 1:18:56
  own expectations are, like asking yourself the questions
• 1:19:00
  that we've talked about today. Or like, OK, what matters to
• 1:19:03
  you? When do you feel healthiest?
• 1:19:05
  Because truthfully. Asking yourself those.
• 1:19:09
  Questions will help you get to wherever you want to go as well.
• 1:19:13
  Again, I, I said it to you at the beginning of this episode
• 1:19:16
  here that I feel healthiest and I'm able to focus, like my
• 1:19:21
  mental focus, I feel the difference.
• 1:19:23
  And like, I've been focused on my work.
• 1:19:25
  Like get things done is 1000 times better when I have spent
• 1:19:29
  time meaningfully connecting with other people because that's
• 1:19:33
  when I feel healthiest. Yeah.
• 1:19:35
  Great, SO. That's what I would leave
• 1:19:39
  everybody with. Yeah.
• 1:19:39
  Thank you. So.
• 1:19:40
  Much Thank you so much for your kind words.
• 1:19:42
  I appreciate that so much. I I love these conversations.
• 1:19:46
  I think they're important. We need to have more of them.
• 1:19:49
  I know they're important. I, I, I know they are because
• 1:19:52
  I've seen the fruit of them. When we do have them, when we
• 1:19:56
  connect as women, when we connect as humans and get
• 1:20:00
  curious and, and address these different parts so we can really
• 1:20:04
  show up healthy and well for ourselves and for each other.
• 1:20:09
  And, and you've spoken already really well to the layers piece.
• 1:20:13
  Your ability to address that, like you nailed it, like you,
• 1:20:17
  that was like, oh, can I take that excerpt and just put it on
• 1:20:20
  our website? But that's what layers is.
• 1:20:24
  Just listen to the, the Jewel Homeland episode.
• 1:20:27
  She nailed it. Is there anything else you want
• 1:20:29
  to? Add to that that layers piece
• 1:20:32
  because you you understand that so well.
• 1:20:36
  You know I. Nothing comes to my mind that on
• 1:20:41
  the layers piece, I think I, I've really thrilled it home
• 1:20:45
  that things are so, so nuanced and understanding that as much
• 1:20:50
  as you can be flexible in that and understanding the depth of
• 1:20:55
  the entire situation, how all of these things play in together
• 1:21:00
  and you just have grace for yourself in that.
• 1:21:04
  The human brain wants certainty, absolute certainty.
• 1:21:08
  It wants categories and just understanding that being
• 1:21:13
  compassionate with the, the meat and electricity that's in your
• 1:21:16
  head, the machine in your brain or in your inside your noggin,
• 1:21:21
  You know that that's what it's going to look for.
• 1:21:23
  And so, but life isn't that way. Emotions are that way.
• 1:21:28
  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for that.
• 1:21:31
  And you've nailed this as well. Like you authentically live out,
• 1:21:35
  feel, finding empowerment, embracing layers.
• 1:21:38
  You have learned how to really apply that in your own life.
• 1:21:42
  And you've talked about throughout this episode on how
• 1:21:45
  it's impacted your relationships and the value of relationships
• 1:21:51
  and those connections in your overall health.
• 1:21:55
  Do you want to add any other piece to that?
• 1:21:57
  Because you've you've addressed that's so beautifully in this
• 1:21:59
  entire episode today. Yeah.
• 1:22:03
  You. Know what if there's?
• 1:22:04
  One thing I want everyone to take from the situation is that.
• 1:22:11
  Or for this situation from this. Podcast that and from my
• 1:22:15
  situations, I would want people to take from that like the most
• 1:22:19
  empowering thing for me, the thing that made me the most
• 1:22:22
  confident, the thing that honestly makes me the most
• 1:22:24
  motivated when I'm applying it to my life.
• 1:22:27
  The thing that allows me to to really do that is it goes back
• 1:22:36
  to like understanding myself, self acceptance and self
• 1:22:38
  compassion every single time. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:22:42
  So good. All right, we are down.
• 1:22:45
  To the. Rapid fire Name 5 activities
• 1:22:49
  that nourish you. Five activities that nourish.
• 1:22:53
  Me. Are I going on a walk in a
• 1:22:59
  trail? Meaningfully.
• 1:23:02
  Connecting with one of my closer relationships or multiple?
• 1:23:10
  I. Game nights actually gave nights
• 1:23:13
  with my people Googling things that I'm curious about and
• 1:23:21
  reading all of everything I could find and things I'm
• 1:23:24
  curious about really nourish me. And then lastly, you know, just
• 1:23:34
  'cause I can't say it enough, like treating myself
• 1:23:37
  compassionately, I would say those are the inertia things
• 1:23:42
  that really they're activities because that's an activity on
• 1:23:44
  its own too. Absolutely. 100% it really is.
• 1:23:48
  It absolutely is. Thank you.
• 1:23:49
  And five words on how you want to feel the next six months.
• 1:23:55
  I want to. Feel focused.
• 1:24:03
  And again, we talked about so much of what helps me feel that
• 1:24:05
  way, right? So I want to feel focused,
• 1:24:10
  connected. I want to feel as well present
• 1:24:22
  in this next stage of the building up to something.
• 1:24:26
  When I feel present, I want to feel as well purposeful, really
• 1:24:37
  going back to that over and over again.
• 1:24:42
  Yeah, I want to feel. Really purposeful.
• 1:24:44
  And then lastly, I would say I want to feel playful.
• 1:24:50
  That's very energizing for me. And yeah, yeah, feel playful.
• 1:24:58
  Love that. Yeah, so good.
• 1:25:00
  I'm so glad you said what you did to you about when you were
• 1:25:04
  talking about, you know, the activities that nourish you.
• 1:25:07
  You mentioned ones that I think we really have to, you know,
• 1:25:11
  take the time and and think about that playful, that
• 1:25:13
  purposeful, that present. They all playoff each other.
• 1:25:17
  We want to get ahead. Like we make up like, OK, I'm
• 1:25:20
  going to go back to school and I and then I'm going to get here
• 1:25:23
  and I'm just going to get, I'm just going to grind through it.
• 1:25:26
  I'm just going to and then I'm going to be at the end and we
• 1:25:28
  don't. My husband has an old saying it
• 1:25:30
  used to drive me crazy because I was such a checkbox and wasn't
• 1:25:36
  nearly as present, but he's like, enjoy the journey.
• 1:25:39
  It's not just about getting there.
• 1:25:41
  It's all that you learn and go through and are present within
• 1:25:44
  the process. And I have finally really learn
• 1:25:48
  to embrace that and see the value in that the last five
• 1:25:52
  years. And I think that's something
• 1:25:54
  that's really easy to lose sight of.
• 1:25:55
  So I'm so glad you that that made me think of that when you
• 1:25:58
  brought that up. June, you've offered so much
• 1:26:02
  wisdom and insight today. I really appreciate you sharing
• 1:26:06
  your story with us, your resources, how you show up for
• 1:26:10
  people, how you show up for yourself, how you've learned how
• 1:26:13
  to do that and you're continuing to learn how to do that and let
• 1:26:17
  people know. And this will also be on our
• 1:26:19
  resources page on a pricing layers.com.
• 1:26:22
  But let people know how they can follow you, find you, all those
• 1:26:25
  things. Yeah.
• 1:26:27
  And. Again, I know I said it earlier,
• 1:26:29
  but this has been so fun. Thank you so, so much, Melissa,
• 1:26:34
  truly. Thank you.
• 1:26:35
  Thank you. This has been such a gift.
• 1:26:37
  It's so energizing. And yeah, if if anybody would
• 1:26:43
  like to follow me, learn more about like my work, what I'm
• 1:26:48
  doing in the world, as well as if you wanna tell me what really
• 1:26:53
  resonated with you from the podcast.
• 1:26:55
  I always find that helpful because I know what really
• 1:26:57
  resonates with me. But if you're somebody that is
• 1:26:59
  looking how to create meaningful friendships, that is looking how
• 1:27:02
  to overcome social anxiety, it's helpful for me to know just in
• 1:27:06
  general what resonated most of you.
• 1:27:08
  I would just so greatly appreciate that.
• 1:27:10
  I'd really fill up my cup and also it would really make me
• 1:27:12
  feel seen. So you can send me that on
• 1:27:17
  anywhere, like at Connection with Jewel.
• 1:27:20
  Jewel is spelled like a gem or a rock.
• 1:27:22
  So JEWEL, the connection with Jewel everywhere, connection
• 1:27:26
  with jewel.com, we have some amazing resources on there that
• 1:27:31
  I'm so proud of. Our one of our favorites that my
• 1:27:36
  team and I put together are called How to Belong at any of
• 1:27:39
  It and how to turn people you meet into friends.
• 1:27:42
  We're so proud of those resources.
• 1:27:44
  They were used at the largest women's conference in my state,
• 1:27:49
  which, yeah, it was so fun. So we decided to turn it into a
• 1:27:51
  resource for everybody so you can get that on connection with
• 1:27:55
  jewel.com as well as one of my lofty goals this year, y'all, is
• 1:28:01
  to grow a YouTube and you know, we're at 30 people I think
• 1:28:05
  following which is amazing. Hey.
• 1:28:08
  You got to start somewhere. That's awesome.
• 1:28:10
  We've got to start somewhere. Exactly.
• 1:28:13
  So stay tuned for that 'cause that's, that's one of my big
• 1:28:18
  projects and things I'm holding space for as I as I grow because
• 1:28:23
  again, it doesn't happen overnight, as you know.
• 1:28:25
  Yeah, absolutely growing podcast.
• 1:28:28
  Yeah, yeah, it takes. Time and patience and
• 1:28:31
  curiousness and being the willingness to try different
• 1:28:34
  things and, and nothing is a failure.
• 1:28:36
  It's just like, all right, that hit and that didn't, and that's
• 1:28:39
  what I've had to really learn to accept.
• 1:28:43
  But we're also focusing on YouTube this year that seems to
• 1:28:46
  be a really like the next place. And it's the place that I found
• 1:28:50
  you can really connect on multiple levels with people.
• 1:28:54
  So we can share that journey together.
• 1:28:56
  And so I'll be excited. Yeah, we're in it together.
• 1:28:58
  And to watch, to watch how that. Grows Jewel.
• 1:29:00
  I love this conversation today. I'm so glad we connected.
• 1:29:04
  You are a Jewel and I'm sure you've heard that before, but
• 1:29:07
  you really are and and I I'm so thankful you have you get your
• 1:29:13
  generation gives me so much hope.
• 1:29:15
  You all have so much you're. So.
• 1:29:18
  Wise already, and wisdom doesn't always come with age.
• 1:29:23
  Wisdom comes with curiosity and being a learner and accepting
• 1:29:28
  all the pieces of yourself and giving yourself grace and
• 1:29:32
  knowing that life is a nuance. All of those things are the
• 1:29:35
  embodiments of wisdom and you, you are carrying those and, and
• 1:29:39
  I appreciate that and how you show up in the world to support
• 1:29:43
  others in this journey. And so thank you so much for
• 1:29:46
  your time today. Thank.
• 1:29:48
  You thank you so much for for saying that I really received
• 1:29:52
  that. So thank you.
• 1:29:53
  Awesome. Awesome.
• 1:29:54
  All right, folks, check out embracinglayers.com.
• 1:29:57
  Go to that resources page where all the places you can learn
• 1:30:00
  from and follow Jewel and and be kind to yourselves this week.
• 1:30:04
  And I love that question. Ask yourself what feels healthy
• 1:30:09
  to you? Where do you feel?
• 1:30:11
  How do you feel your healthiest? What are way are you engaging
• 1:30:16
  that feels healthy to you? That's your challenge for this
• 1:30:19
  week. Take good care of yourselves and
• 1:30:21
  have a great week. Hello, Melissa.
• 1:30:26
  Crook here. Thank you so much for joining us
• 1:30:29
  on the Field podcast today. Finding Empowerment.
• 1:30:33
  Embracing Layers. I hope you found today's
• 1:30:36
  framework and resources supportive and informative.
• 1:30:40
  To learn more about all that we offer here at the Embracing
• 1:30:44
  Layers Network, visit embracinglayers.com.
• 1:30:48
  You can go to our contact form to schedule me as a speaker for
• 1:30:52
  your next conference, workshop, or seminar.
• 1:30:55
  You can go to our book page to order our book, The Jessica
• 1:30:59
  Garrison, our wonderful and talented writer and author
• 1:31:03
  authored with my support and engage with this framework in
• 1:31:07
  written form with your journal or in a book club with other
• 1:31:11
  women inviting them on this journey with you.
• 1:31:14
  You can look at our resources page for all of the helpful and
• 1:31:17
  insightful resources our guests offer and share.
• 1:31:21
  You can find the schedule for our weekly Together We Feel
• 1:31:24
  Women's panel conversations that we're holding each Monday on our
• 1:31:28
  YouTube channel, and you can find the links to all the spaces
• 1:31:32
  and places. You can then follow engage with
• 1:31:35
  us on social media and join our engagements that are happening
• 1:31:40
  on our Sub Stat site. There is also a donation page
• 1:31:44
  where you can donate to support our work to ensure we can
• 1:31:48
  continue to bring you these incredible guest conversations
• 1:31:52
  and support. Thanks again for joining.
• 1:31:55
  Me this week, share with your friends and give us a review on
• 1:31:59
  your favorite listening platform.
• 1:32:01
  Your feedback helps us ensure we're bringing you the content
• 1:32:05
  that will best support you and having an empowered embracing
• 1:32:09
  layers journey. Take good care and thanks for
• 1:32:12
  giving us some of your valuable time today.
• 1:32:15
  We truly appreciate you so deeply.