Latest / ADHDtime On Air / What Makes a Good ADHD Coach
Transcript
- Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hi everyone, thank you for joining ADHD Time on Air. Today I have a great guest, Adela Baker. She's an ADHD coach. She was one of my mentor coaches. She is amazing. And we're gonna talk about coaching, we're gonna talk about ADHD, we're gonna talk about creativity and fast thinking and all the amazing things she shares with the world. So hi, thank you for joining me. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: I'm so happy to be here and to hang out with you, Daniella. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I am really excited about today and we get to talk about one of my favorite topics, ADHD and coaching. So I'm gonna start with the basics basics. If someone in the audience doesn't know what ADHD coaching is. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Okay, so I have a very long definition, but I'll try to keep it short. So ADHD coaching is a collaborative creative process where an ADHD coach and the client are together co-thinking and exploring how the client's brain operates and then exploring challenges and opportunities. to build their innate strengths and identify accommodations and supports for their challenges in in order for them to grow. So it is a transformational process in a very safe and encouraging space. And it is a process of partnership. So it is not consulting, it is not advising, it is not therapy. It is not teaching. It is it is also not fixing anything because nothing is broken, and it is also not obedience training. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Love that. I love it. So if you can tell people what led you into the world of coaching. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yeah, so I've been doing this for over 10 years now. And my son was diagnosed when he was around six years old or so. And at the time I was in in higher ed and I was already working with high school and college students that that also had ADHD, and so I understood it from an educators. perspective and then I came to understand it as well from a parent perspective and I thought if I'm going to help my son then I'm going to help my students and then I'm going to help my whole community. And I discovered this thing called ADHD coaching, which didn't exist anywhere in the whole Gulf South at that point. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: So I saw an opportunity and I thought if I if I can help one person, I'm I'm going to help as many people as I can. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love it. So I I myself am a big fan of coaching from all sides. but I always wonder what do you think makes a good coach? Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mmm, that is a great question. I think what makes a good coach is a coaching mindset, right? And that means having a growth mindset, that means being extremely curious, and that means also trusting the client that the client has all the answers within themselves, which is very different from advising or or being a parent or a teacher where we are expected to be the ones to be the answer, to have the answer. And in this case, we are trusting that the client has the solution within themselves and we're mining for that and helping them discover it within themselves. So that and of course, you know, being able to create a non-judgmental space and being able to be in charge of your own growth and manage your your, you know, many ADHD coaches have ADHD themselves. So how do you manage your own ADHD in order to model that for your client as well? So it's quite a lot now that you asked. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love that. No, I I think it it's not as easy a job as people think. And to do it successfully, you need a lot of strengths. I love the the coach mindset, that curiosity that you come in with. I know that your coaching it focuses on tuberthink I can't even say it. Look at me. Your coaching focuses on tub turbo thinkers. Tell me what that means exactly. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yeah, yeah. So I I came up with this term back, you know, in the when I very first started and I was reading Hallowell, right? And you know, race car brain with tricycle brakes. And that really resonated with me. and you know, so I I call turbo thinkers are very are they high achievers with very creative minds. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hm. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: they are fast moving minds and we are wanderers and wanderers, right? We we our brain wanders, right? It has trouble focusing on one thing, and and wanderers because we're extremely curious and have this love of learning and always want want more and have very high expectations. Of ourselves, and sometimes of others. And so these things can be strengths and sometimes can get in our way of being our best selves. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So when you think about the whole world of coaching, you talked before about it being a relatively newer concept, like you were talking about 10 years Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: ago, you couldn't find it in your area of the world. where what what do you think about how the world how coaching developed and what do you think is kind of the next step? So let's start with the past. Like how do you think about where we are now and then follow Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm, yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: it up with where do you think we should be going? Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yeah, yeah. So the coaching, the coaching industry, the ADHD coach coaching industry is moving very, very quickly and growing quickly. So coaching as as a profession began probably in the 90s, I would say, early 90s. and then the ADHD coaching came after that when we noticed that the traditional coaching model wasn't always wasn't really working for people with ADHD. And in fact, sometimes was causing more harm than good. So we had to add this whole ADHD lens to it, right? So, I mean, you know this, but for your listeners, ADHD coaching is is a true profession that requires a lot of education, a lot of training, and a lot of competencies. So we have the the knowledge, like the ADHD knowledge piece, but we also have the the coaching skills piece, right? And that there's positive psychology in there, there's you know, there's all kinds of things. and there's a big difference between a certification and a credential, right? So I'm going to put a plug-in here for ACO for the ADHD coaches organization. And That's really you want to go to their directory and look up professional coaches. So a certified coach means that they they took a class and they completed it. credentialed is that you have actually passed the knowledge and skills exams. So I like to say it's like, you know, anyone can learn how to drive. You take driver's ed class, or even, you know, Uncle Bob could teach you how to drive on a backcountry road, but you still need to go to the DMV. To pass that written exam and that driving exam. And there are a lot of people now, it's become very popular with ADHD awareness, which is wonderful. I mean, I love that the awareness is growing. and that more people are realizing, you know, this is also like my story. Like, wait, my son has it. Wait, then also then this, my mom, my sister, and me too. Like now we're we're There's more awareness that it's not just little boys squirming in their seats in the classroom. So there are a lot of people out there calling themselves an ADHD coach or an executive function coach. and you want to look for for their credentials, right? It's just, you know, to use another metaphor, if if my cousin had knee surgery and I'm considering knee surgery, just because he had knee surgery doesn't mean that he's qualified. To operate on my knee. I'm going to look for a board-certified orthopedic surgeon to operate on my knee, right? And so we have a lot of people sharing their experience of ADHD and their solutions. And that's wonderful that they feel safe to talk about this. However, what works for them may not work for you. And only you know what works best for you. And a credentialed coach can help you discover that in a safe space, in a safe way. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I I I love the examples and the explanation. I like many times to to give the example of the fact that maybe I know how to drive a car doesn't mean I should be fixing the car. But I don't like to think Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: about ADHD as as a fixing metaphor, so that's not really a good fit. But the idea is that the fact that we know how to do something doesn't mean we should always be the one teaching, helping, guiding others. and lived Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yeah, yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: experience could be very useful and important, but not sufficient. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Right, right. And that's not to say, I mean, we have many ADHD professionals in our world Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: right now, which is wonderful, right? Because you know, the part of the coaching process is identifying who who do I want in my ecosystem of support, right? We have this multimodal approach. And as a coach, I can work with a client and stay in my lane, and that client same client. may work with a therapist as well to address other issues, right? Maybe with a therapist they realize, you know, I really want to repair this relationship with my mom. And then maybe in coaching, we come up with with a plan and and even deeper questions like who is the person that you get to be? Right? The person you were growing up in your parents' household. is very different than the person you are now and the person you are growing into. And who is that person? And how does that person have this, yes, Daniella Karidi, PhD: Interact in the world. Yeah. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: interact with their mother, for example, to use that same example, right? Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. Yes, definitely. So you brought up a bit the social media and a bit about how the world of ADHD is growing. I think there's a lot of things that the world is getting correct at the moment about ADHD and a few things that maybe is misinformation or people are not highlighting the right thing. So if you had a chance to to to talk to people and share, what are the things you think that are are mostly correct going out there at the moment? And some of the things that you hear them and you go, I wish Someone did not say that out loud. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm, mm. So I think, you know, there is there's more information out there that ADHD looks different for different people, right? That this is what it may look like for girls as opposed to boys, right? Or this is what it may look like for postmenopausal women, for example. and you know, we're having conversations about is it ADHD or is it hormones? is it ADHD or is it dementia? Is you know, so there's some really interesting conversations happening here. A lot also, you know, now we know that emotional dysregulation is is part of it as well, right? It's ADHD, I think it was Russell Barkley that said is the inability to self-regulate our our thoughts, our actions, and our emotions, right? So we now know that the emotions are are part of that as well. so it's really nice to have all of these conversations and to understand that it's you know. There's there's a full spectrum of what ADHD might look like. and it can and and it can look very differently over the course of a lifetime. and it can look very differently when it's managed versus not managed, right? So you can have it and be extremely successful because you have the right supports in place and you have the right accommodations. and as an aside, an accommodation, you know. can be a person, right? It doesn't have to be a an app on your phone. so what are the things that I don't like is Yeah, this, you know, these there's again it's it's the social media mostly that gets on my nerves of is you know people saying, well, if if you have if you do this, you have ADHD. Or if you have ADHD, you must use this app and this will cure it. because it's it's a lot more complicated than that. And it's a lot more personalized than that. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So the generalization and the and the and at at some at and then the other hand is the selling us the magical solutions that will cure the snake oil solutions Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: that will cure something that is so complex that it will be very hard to cure with this magical lotion or the magical solution. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yes, yes, yes. And you know, as a coach, a question that I find extremely challenging is when when someone, you know, not a client or s or just someone says, Well, what do you advise or what advice would you give? I as a coach, I don't give advice. I'm I'm gonna be curious. Well, what is your experience like? When did you succeed last? What did that look like? Well, what made it work that one time? What keys to success could you apply now? Like I don't have one answer that's gonna work for everybody. so I yeah, I think that's the hardest part. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I can see that. I I can see that being very challenging. So when you think about the future of coaching, where do you see it going? Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. So I'm very optimistic. I see neurodiversity as being appreciated in the workplace more and more. It's no longer something that is hidden or something that is people are ashamed about. There's recognition that diversity in general is an asset in the workplace and neurodiversity in particular. And so this means that there's with this newfound appreciation. There's also opportunity for growth and coaching, learning, you know, how do I work in a diverse environment so that I can leverage my strengths, the strengths that I bring to the table here. So I see a great opportunity there. Another opportunity I see is with all of the technologies that we have, right? And so not everyone has the privilege of being able to work one-on-one with a personal coach. However, there's there's all kinds of technology where you can combine work working one-on-one with a coach. or, you know, similar, I guess, like working with a personal trainer in the gym. Like you have, you know, you can have your little running app and do things on your own. You can do YouTube activities on your own. You can you can work in a class, right? And we there's ADHD group coaching available. A lot of coaches offer that. or you can, you know. work one on one or any combination of those. So I do, I do see the technology as supporting our industry as well. Especially since ADHD coaching is not at this moment specific to any one state, right? So different Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: than other types of licenses that are are relegated to states, particular states, we have that flexibility of, you know, I'm currently in New Orleans, but I can really I have clients all over the world. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes. Yeah, the same. I I think that before COVID it was a little harder because not everyone had Zoom or knew about the technologies Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: or knew n any of those, like, you know, Google Meet was not a all these technologies existed but weren't as widespread. And the pandemic created this phenomena that allowed these technologies to spread even more and Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: which helped I think allow kind of those b borders disappear a bit. what com becomes tricky is for me and some of my ADHD clients is the time differences and remembering, Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: like the remembering that you might be in a different time zone than your client, or the client remembering that you're in a different time zone than them. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yes, yes, or your daylight savings kicks in on a different date. Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. Yes, yes, that problem with Europe consistently. Definitely. Definitely. I like to ask people sometimes if i about if you had a magic wand and you could change something in the way the world looks at neurodiversity or the way we live in the world at the moment, what would you use it for? Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Daniella, these are hard questions. Daniella Karidi, PhD: do you think I'd do this for my living? Asking hard questions. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. This is great. This is kind of a two in one answer. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Okay. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: I think my magic wand would help us be better listeners, Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: active listeners. Because being an active listener involves involves several skills. It involves involves the the awareness of bias and the removement of judgment. It involves a deep curiosity to ask questions and to continue to question to see is is there more? And then what? And then what? And what else is possible? Deep listening also allows us to На би комфорта in the silence. while your other person is really collecting their thoughts. It also It allows you to just be with them and accept any response that they give. and to reflect it back to them in a way so that they better understand themselves. And so that they also see potential within themselves and opportunities around them. Yeah, so I think if we were all better listeners, the world might be a better place. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Definitely. I think that's a great insight. And I like to think that we developed and matured and grew your knowledge, your experience affects all that. But if you'd go back, what would you tell young self about what you know now about your ADHD and your and and in yourself? What would you go back and say to young you? Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm, I would say too me, I would say It's okay to be yourself. And There is no right way of doing things. And you can do things your way, and that's okay. And for God's sake, stop worrying about what other people think. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, that Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: one's good. what would you tell future self? Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. I would tell future self, She did the best she could with what she had at the moment. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I like that. I like that. I don't know if you remember one of the conferences together. We attend together the international ADHD conference, which I strongly recommend people to attend. And I'll put a link, well, add a bunch of links to this, Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: but you could but you came to me at a bar all sp weared with like sparkles. You are covered and I I loved it. I was like, I loved that you are wearing your sparkle inside and out. Like I found that very Very true to you. So I will tell to your future you to keep on doing that. Keep on wearing that sparkle inside and out. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: thank you. Thank you. Yes, that's my glitter. I have, yes, several kinds of of glitter. And and if you you can it's very easy to make yourself too. You can get biodegradable glitter and you mix it with aloe vera and it sticks to your skin. And it makes everything Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love it. I love it. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: more fabulous. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love it. But but I I loved that internal and external combo because that is unique. And I really want you to keep on doing it. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: thank you. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So I I always also like to take the opportunity to let people to kind of bring up anything they want to add. is there things that you think if someone was listening and this was their first and only exposure to the world of ADHD? or their millions exposure to the world of ADHD and coaching, what would you wanna make sure they leave Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. You know, I think Something you you didn't ask, and this this might be, I was thinking about this before, a good place to talk about it is, you know, people wonder what is ADHD coaching. they have a pretty clear understanding of when they're not happy with themselves at the moment, and they think, you know, coaching might help. One thing that is not often enough talked about is. How do you know when the coaching is complete? Or how do you know when the coaching has worked? Daniella Karidi, PhD: Love that. Okay. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Because I, you know, I I've had this often and it's always, you know, it's it's rather bittersweet. I've some, I have a client that I've been working with, I don't know, I think we may be on six years now that we just meet regularly and we touch base. And I've, you know, I have clients that we're in what I call maintenance mode, right? We just touch base once a month or something like that. But in you know, from this like weekly meeting when you're you're working, it's, you know, how do we know when in a way, I I like to say I my job is to put myself out of a job. It's when you're coming back with reporting nothing but wins. You know, this went well and this went well and this went well, or or this didn't go well, and I handled it, and in the end it was okay. Right. So you're you're feeling confident. There's this resilience, there's this calm. you know what strategies work for you, you know that what supports work for you, you're you're you have an awareness of where your core values are and what your purpose is. So you know when you're making decisions, what to prioritize and what to let go of. You're Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: comfortable with delegating. Right. So that's and you're like, I think I've I've got this on my own. Right. And it's not that I'm I'm doing everything by myself, but I know, okay, this is I'm struggling with this. So I'm gonna call somebody as a collaborator. I'm gonna call somebody to verbally process this or I'm gonna delegate this to somebody. so yeah, I think that's that's might be interesting to know of what does it look like on the other side, right? That I'm calm, I'm confident, right? I have, I have the awareness of how I work. I I I talk about the f the four A's, like we're building awareness. How does my brain work? Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Then, you know, the acceptance, that's sometimes a really hard part, like I accept that I have a really terrible memory and that I need a lot of different supports for it. Right. Or I accept that I can be really impulsive and that I have ways of managing that. so the acceptance piece and then the accommodations. What are the things that will support me? are there actual physical tools like my my calendar or my planner? or is it knowing that, you know, this is my this is what I my mindfulness practice to ground me for the day? Or that I need to drink water, like All kinds of things, right? And then and then ask, how do I ask for those things? How do I ask for help? How do I be confident and am confident enough that I can ask, you know, when like I asked you earlier, can you please be the timekeeper for us? Right? I know that I need that support, that accommodation. So I hope that answers your question. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes, no, I loved it. you you basically brought up the fact that when we start a co coaching relationship, it it's gonna evolve. And it's very hard to tell because this is not like maybe a transaction in a restaurant where you know the beginning Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: and the end. The end is when you ask for your bill and you're out and you finished your meal, if you took the leftovers or y you you have a routine, there's a script. And when we talk about coaching, we might have every coaches might have a little bit different script for the session. But the conversation about when we know this relationship has hit that point where we can say goodbye. And when the client understands or the coache that they achieved what they came for. And that Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: is not an easy question to ask because that requires us from the beginning, and many times ADHDers struggle with that, to think about what's the future that we want us, what Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: we're what we're working towards. And part of Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Right. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Part of the job of what you do amazing as a coach, and I think that a lot of other good coaches do, is understanding that from the the beginning, understanding what are we working towards, figuring that out. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Exactly. Exactly. well, I don't want to be overwhelmed or stressed. Well, if you're not overwhelmed or stressed, what does that look like? Well, I don't want to live with doom piles of clutter around my house, my house. Well, then what what if those are gone, what does that look like? Like helping them envision that. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: And sometimes it's very dramatic. Like I remember one of my very first clients was really feeling stuck and overwhelmed, and she was in an accounting firm and sh she was. Long story short, she ended up pursuing her passion, which was photography, and moved to France and got a full-paid artist in residency program in France to become a full-time artist and really leaned into her most authentic self. Now that's a that's a very dramatic and Daniella Karidi, PhD: Extreme yeah. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: yet unlike kind of that that's happened pretty often with some of my clients. They're like, okay, well, I'm just in the wrong environment altogether for me to thrive. And sometimes it's it's more subtle things, like, you know, this is the life, you know, the environment I'm in, and I'm I'm committed to these relationships and this or this location. And and then how do I work better or best within that? And then how might I see myself differently in as I move through this world? Daniella Karidi, PhD: And and I think the few things that you're pointing out that maybe someone that doesn't have the lingo or the thoughts is that when we talk about our values or our authentic self or our coaching goals, we help our clients find those. It's not like Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: we're expecting you to come into the client relationship, into the coaching relationship knowing these terms or knowing what sometimes Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: you knock on our door because you think You're struggling about your piles, but you really are struggling because those piles don't match the values you believe in. I Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Exactly. Daniella Karidi, PhD: love some of my Doom piles. I I actually live with them with peace because they match my priority. My priority is if it helps me to keep all my socks unsorted, when that gets me to spend more time with my kids, it's a win. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: sorting socks was never a priority in my life. but Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: having clean socks is. So understanding where Our values matches our behaviors. And and Exactly. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Yes, exactly. Where do I want to put my time and energy? And what can I let go of to have more time and energy available for the things that do matter to me? Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes, a hundred percent. And and I think that that that's an amazing insight and it's important for people to understand that when you're coming into these successful coaching work relationships, they see you with curiosity, as you said, in interest, but also as a whole person. And I think that's Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Mm-hmm. Daniella Karidi, PhD: one of the things you definitely see your clients as whole people, which is amazing. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: Exactly, exactly. The ADHD is affects all aspects and it's only one as like we're not fixing we're not putting a band aid on a problem. We're addressing the whole the whole person. Yeah. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. Yep. Yep. how can people find you if they want to work with you or just learn more about the things you do? Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: So my website is mind hyphencoach.com and I'm also on Instagram and on LinkedIn and on Facebook. So it's M-I-N-D-H-C-O-A-C-H dot com. Daniella Karidi, PhD: And I will add those links to the show notes. And thank you so much for joining me today to talk about coaching, and I will see you hopefully at the next conference. Adela Baker, PCC, PCAC: I will definitely see you there. Thank you so much. It's always so fun to talk to you and so easy. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Thank you. Thank you.