Latest / Callum Walker | Figuring It Out / #76 - Sam Leatherbarrow: “I Was Drowning In Imposter Syndrome & Drop Offs. Now I’m A Fully Booked PT and Clients Never Leave.”

Transcript

#76 - Sam Leatherbarrow: “I Was Drowning In Imposter Syndrome & Drop Offs. Now I’m A Fully Booked PT and Clients Never Leave.” · Callum Walker | Figuring It Out

• 0:03
  Callum Walker: If fear is the only thing stopping us from achieving our dreams and we only fear what we don't understand, then the antidote to fear is knowledge. All we have to do is find out who has the knowledge that we need to conquer our fears and achieve our entrepreneurial dreams. My name is Callum Walker and welcome to the podcast that will help you figure it out and conquer this lonely entrepreneurial journey. Hello everyone and welcome to the podcast. Today, today I have a very special guest, very special guest, Samantha Leatherbarrow.
• 0:39
  What is happening? What's going on?
• 0:43
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I'm alright Callum, not much well. A lot is going on but
• 0:48
  Callum Walker: A lot is going on. No, Thank you so much for coming on. We've been working together for over two years now, haven't we?
• 0:58
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Is this entering our third year?
• 0:59
  Callum Walker: This is entering our third year, our third year. How have you found your past two years?
• 1:10
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I feel like I've blinked. I don't know how it's been. I don't know how it's been this amount of time already. I feel like I've blinked and it's like yeah, it's been good. I've really enjoyed it.
• 1:22
  Callum Walker: That's good. So I guess first of all, just to kind of start off with things, you know obviously when you kind of first started working with me it was really kind of centered around leveling up your nutritional game, helping your clients with their results, and really just kind of improving your own knowledge. Now I know that that can almost kind of seem like a lifetime ago, considering we have been working together for what, over two years now. And in terms of the level of nutritional conversation that we have at the moment, it doesn't really kind of exist anymore because it doesn't really have to kind of exist because it's almost like things are in a really good spot for you. But just kinda cast your mind back to, yeah, a couple of years ago, nutritionally.
• 2:11
  What was happening?
• 2:14
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I was sort of running the business out of my garage. And I'd I'd sort of created this thing that I loved. And I was getting clients in. And I was in terms of their results and their nutrition, I was kind of following the calorie counting method because that's just what's born and bred and it's just what I knew. And, you know, it worked on me and worked on some younger clients, but I did find that more and more of my clients weren't getting a result and I didn't really understand why.
• 2:55
  And I just felt like this young PT who had a bit of a gap in her knowledge, which you know it like, obviously, I've told you before, it felt it made me feel a bit like a fraud. And I always felt like I was always scrambling to find a reason why or a little way, just a little hint, tip, trick just to help them lose the body fat or the scale weight that they wanted. And I knew it wasn't all about scale weight, but still when they're coming to you and they're they're paying for a service and to receive a result and I'm not getting at them, I don't know. It was just there was so much pressure and I just really doubted it. And, I just started to I hated it.
• 3:39
  I hated feelings.
• 3:41
  Callum Walker: So
• 3:43
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I don't know. I just felt like a fraud. I just felt like a fraud. And I really began to just resent it, resent being self employed, resent personal training, my clients. And I had to pick and choose whether or not because pick or choose whether or not to believe my clients, which is really hard to actually say because some clients will be secret eaters or some of them will always put everything into MyFitnessPal and they won't measure things correctly.
• 4:15
  And sometimes the barcodes aren't always accurate when they scan. And I'd be like, are you sure you've recorded it right? And I don't know. I I was just really not enjoying. And then in that result in my clients dropping off because I wasn't getting them a result.
• 4:30
  They were like, they would always say, oh, it's great working with you, blah blah blah blah blah. I'm like, is that's not what want. What I want, I want you to get a result. Yeah, that was it. I just stopped getting a result.
• 4:42
  Not for everybody, but for the majority because I like to work with older clients. Yeah. And the Callum accounting method just was not working. So I just didn't know what to do. Then you came along.
• 4:55
  Callum Walker: Yeah. We'll get to that in a sec. But, you know, it's interesting you said that because, like, I think something that's really interesting where you said I began to resent running a business. Because like, you know, I completely get it because I was in the exact same sort of spot where it's like, you know, I've got these people, yeah, like coming to me expecting me to know everything that they should be expecting me to know what they should do to deliver a result. And I guess this is probably why me and you kind of connect so well as well because like our values are very much centred around like, you know, yeah don't get me wrong, both run a coaching business to pay for our lifestyle, but also like it's more a, you know, like it's a real expression of you almost kind of want to do in the world.
• 5:48
  And it's very much around, you know, if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it properly and actually deliver and make it of something of substance. And I don't want to be the person who almost kind of like feels like I'm selling snake oil because that's how we kind of used to feel. That it was almost like, you know, and I think the frustration as well was that it wasn't that I was intentionally trying to swindle people so to speak, or intentionally trying to sell snake oil. And it's like the frustration was that I've got these people that I feel I'm letting them down and I'm not trying to let them down. And there's so many, especially in the fitness space, know, and I guess you can kind of like, you can put this into the coaching industry in general, whether it's with business mentors, whether it's with coaches or whatever, there are so many coaches out there who you can't trust.
• 6:49
  And you know, know for me, just didn't want to be that person, but I was technically being that person, but it wasn't my fault almost. So I I guess, like, you know, you you said that, like, what because I wanna kinda circle back to resenting the business in a second. But what yeah. What was the what would you say that was the problem that that was really kinda causing you?
• 7:15
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I've it was because my clients kept dropping off.
• 7:20
  Callum Walker: Mhmm.
• 7:20
  Sam Leatherbarrow: And that would then, like, I'd be in this cycle of I'd I'd get a new client and I'd work really hard with, know, the exercise element, that was fine. Everyone was always seeing results there. But then when it comes to nutritionally, not all of them were with me for fat loss, but for the ones that were, especially sort of like the middle aged ladies or those that are hitting menopause, perimenopause, they were struggling to lose weight. And then they would stay with me for a certain amount of time. Especially I do think you build these relationships and you do naturally stay on they probably stayed with me for a bit longer than they maybe would have normally because we just got on so well.
• 7:56
  But then eventually, they would drop off. And obviously, that would then cause me to lose money, not be able to pay for things, not be able to, you know, I was always worried about paying for my mortgage and my bills, because I had to get, I had to keep it going. Like I had no I had to make it work. And they would drop off and then I'd be scrambling to find my next client and then so on and so on. Did that answer your question?
• 8:23
  Callum Walker: Yeah. Completely. And and I think it's just really interesting how you you said you began to resent the business. Like, in what in what sense?
• 8:34
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I because I just didn't know what to do to better my knowledge around this fat loss aspect. And because there was that gap in that knowledge, the course that you do, any personal trainer really does, the nutrition element of it is pretty naff across the board. And there will be the exceptional company that maybe pushes a bit more, but I don't feel like we're get we're given a very good start with nutrition, really. Unless you like dig into it deeper. So then I was left thinking, right, I need to go on this nutrition course, I need to do this, I need to do that.
• 9:08
  And I don't know, was just obviously at the time, was you know, was getting fully booked but losing people quite often. And I just didn't have the time or the energy to put into learning something new. And I I don't know, I think it just mounted in my head. I got really really frustrated. I just wanted to quit my business.
• 9:30
  I got really frustrated because I just was sick of scrambling, sick of feeling like a failure and a fraud. And I had this this just absolute drive of like, I know what I wanna help people with. It wasn't aimed at fat loss, but that is whether anyone likes it or not, part of certain people's fitness journeys is fat loss. So you do need to be able to help with those elements whether you target that or not as a business PT business person. But then I just I just got frustrated.
• 10:00
  I was sick of it. I was feeling overwhelmed. I just wanted a way of having a consistent income. But also that for me selfishly, the consistent income for the bills, me and my partner, but then also to get consistent results. And I just wasn't getting that and it was stressful.
• 10:19
  Was, I was on the struggle bus and I was ready to can it in. And I even, I remember went online and I, not online, but I created a CV or I updated my old CV, dusted it off and updated it. Googled how to do an updated CV because
• 10:37
  Callum Walker: I was Mine's just gonna still got my Duke of Edinburgh Gold Award on. It's important, important part.
• 10:44
  Sam Leatherbarrow: When we cover when we cover Leather and everything. And I jumped on Indeed, and I remember thinking, this would be so much easier if I was just employed. I just want someone to employ me, so I've got a constant income. I don't have to worry about about anything. And yeah, I I don't know.
• 11:04
  There was just sort of like there was a a real point, like a crossroads that I'd got to. And I remember opening up to you about it and just being like, this is where I'm at. Like, I'm I'm I know I'm I'm here with you now, but I'm feeling like I'm close. And I had already posted my CV online. Like, that's how close it was.
• 11:21
  Wow. I was getting emails left, right, and center, like, have this. This is like 30 k a year, 40 k a year jobs. And I was like, please. Please.
• 11:31
  Security. And then, yeah, security, please. And then I had you guys in, you know, at at the work where is it? In in Birmingham and you were like, stay on this side, Sam. Come to the dark side.
• 11:51
  You can create your own struggle bus.
• 11:53
  Callum Walker: Yeah. Now most people I think the thing here is most people would roll over and die and just accept it and go for the easy thing. So why you know, like, you you know this. Like, running a business is not for everyone. It's not.
• 12:11
  No. It's it's the most challenging, difficult, heart wrenching thing that I've ever had to go through. You've experienced the same thing. But then on the flip side, it's been insanely rewarding. So my question is why not just roll over, die, accept it, and just go and get something that has more security that obviously, know, wouldn't come with the same level of emotional obliteration, so to speak.
• 12:45
  Why not just roll over, die, and just go for the easy route?
• 12:49
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Oh, Callum. I just I don't know. Honestly, I just have this thing. And you know what I mean. You just this.
• 13:02
  You have this absolute thing inside that just says, I am made for this. Like I'm not made to be employed by someone else. I mean, there might I don't know one day well on in the future, here in my time and age, I don't know. I might turn around, you know what, I'll work for someone else now. But I've been employed before, I've been in different employments and don't get me wrong, I work, I feel like I was a good team member and I would be given, you know, but I just felt like I was just made to do this.
• 13:39
  And I like the idea of helping I don't know. I like the idea of helping people that are, you know, my specific audience that I love working with. And I just felt like that I could show them there was another way around this. You do not have to be a buff bunny, a fitness freak, a gym rat to have you know, this longevity in a sport or in life in general or to stay mobile. You just can do these parts.
• 14:11
  And yeah, I just I felt like that was really missing in like this middle age to to senior group. And I just thought the you know, these people need to know there is another way of living, but they can extend their life expectancy and their quality of life. And and there was just a bit of me that was like, I give it all up. Like, I'd have to give everything up this the way I want to create it, and just go to a nine to five or never a nine to five. It's not nine to five though, is it?
• 14:40
  Because you next week, you know, you're doing extra hours for free and you're clocking in fifteen minutes early. No. You're going in fifteen minutes early, you can't clock in. And I don't know. I just I was like, create my own thing, office job.
• 14:56
  And I tell you what, kind of the temptation was there financially. But then when I thought about my creativity, about what I wanted to achieve, I just had this. I was like, I have to give it my all before saying, like before stopping. I knew I just had to go all in and then decide, is this definitely for me? Yeah.
• 15:17
  Callum Walker: And you said about that kind of creativity. Almost kind of like with your business, it is like a full expression of you. Isn't it really like it's a I think that probably the most exciting thing that is with me and I think that it's very similar to you just knowing you, it is that pure creativity and expression of yourself that every day you're designing, you're thinking, and you're almost kind of like, and I like the word manifesting, but you are almost kind of taking this thing that's inside of you and bringing it into the world and it's just that pure creation and when you start to see it kind of come to fruition there's just something kind of weird about it But there's just this never ending unstoppable internal drive to just that you're almost kind of pulled along with it. And I you know, I've been in the same situation multiple times of, you know, just questioning what the fuck am I doing? What am I why?
• 16:24
  Why do I put myself through this like I don't have to do this. Like, don't have to put myself through this emotional toil. I literally don't. There are so many easier, safer, more stable paths in life but for some reason there's just this inner thing. And I think that that ability to fully express yourself, express who you are, express your flaws but also express your strengths in its truest form.
• 17:03
  It's exciting and the possibilities really are kind of endless with it. So know, I think, so my question to you on this, you know, you've had some really kind of challenging times since running a business. One, you kind of spoke about that point. Yeah, and that was really kind of centered around a belief in yourself to deliver results. You, yeah, you decided to instead of roll over and die, go like right, I'm going to seek a solution to this problem.
• 17:42
  And I think that for me, I think that is the true test of entrepreneurship, which is seeing that when you're experiencing problems that I'm going to actively seek the solution and not accept that this problem is permanent. And I think that is something that is just consistently clear from, you know, that you radiate and you really kind of showcase. So I guess my question is where does that come from? That constant drive to go, if something ain't working, I am going to find and figure out what the answer is?
• 18:19
  Sam Leatherbarrow: That's a good question actually because I have recently been sat thinking, when did I really want like, really want this? I know this sounds a bit maybe a bit weird, I don't know if it'll make sense, but it was a while ago where I was quite happy to be employed. And I sit, I don't know, I sort of sit back and think about what I used to do as a kid and yeah, I would do the whole like car boot sale and sell all my belongings and I'd go around and offer to watch people's cars just to make money and I kinda had that. And I have always wanted to coach. I've always like rather than taking part massively in coaching, I've always been more the coach than anything else.
• 19:01
  And then recently I've sort of sat and thought, what is it that is driving me? Like why? And I do, yes, there's like something in me that's just like I've got to keep going. Like I wanna see where this thing is gonna take me. I'm so curious about how this is gonna turn out.
• 19:20
  I'm excited like beforehand, it used to overwhelm me, this idea of I have so much to do. Actually, it was you that turned around to me. I think it was in person or on a call, I can't remember, but you were like, how exciting is that? Sam, you have so much that you could do. But don't see it as like, it's not this thing where it's a timeline.
• 19:43
  It's our own timeline that we're pushing for but who who says like it has to be done within a certain time. You know how people go on about marriages, kids, boom, you have to be in a timeline. Same as in business I think.
• 19:56
  Callum Walker: Mhmm.
• 19:56
  Sam Leatherbarrow: And with a lot of other areas, it's your own timeline. Like I put my own pressures on getting this completed, getting this completed. I must have have have be at this point in my business by this time. And it's my own pressures. I I but I don't know.
• 20:11
  I I just have this thing where I'm like, I cannot wait to see how this will go, how it'll turn out, what it'll manifest into, and how more of me will show through it. And I'm I'm looking forward to just I love figuring it out. Your podcast, just figuring it out, is like the perfect title because I feel like I'm always just trying to figure out, like I'm just winging it. And I I don't know, I quite like I quite like this horrendous anxiety that is going on. But also at the same time, it can cripple me in moments.
• 20:48
  And Will, my partner, he'll look at me and be like, have a day off. And I'm like, because it's that simple, I can't just turn this thing off. Like I it doesn't just turn off. Like it doesn't. Yeah.
• 21:02
  But I don't know. I just have this absolute drive and I think surrounding myself with the right people as well. So previously, looking at my my you know, upbringing family, you know, childhood friends that I've grown up with, they weren't necessarily the most driven. Love them all to bits. It's not a slander, but they're not the most driven.
• 21:24
  Very much been about cash in hand jobs. If they needed to be on benefits, it's down benefits. Why get off it? Because it helps you them so much. There's never been anybody that's been self employed, maybe Bob, my uncle who ran a fruit and veg shop.
• 21:40
  And I maybe I was always looking for a group of friends who could help me or a group of people that could help push me. And it wasn't until like, I don't know, leaving the army, meeting Will, and then coming out into the PT world, and then into these mentorships. And then all of a sudden, I just found my people. And I think you guys just dropped little nuggets for me that like what I said before when you said, but how exciting. You have so much that you could do.
• 22:13
  Don't see it as, oh, I have so much to do. It's look at all this that you could do. And it's just turning that perspective like that that idea of, well, it's not a negative. This is a possibility. This is an opportunity, a chance try something else, push further, push more.
• 22:29
  And it's been really nice actually because when I went through my PT course, I met this great girl called Sammy. And yeah, she was just such a positive Polly and I remember sitting next to her thinking, oh my god, her sunshine, the light coming from there is just blinding me. Like she was too positive for my liking. Well next thing you know, a week in, I was hooked on Sammy. I was just like, this is a girl I want in my life for a very long time.
• 22:53
  And to this day, we still meet. We go to each other's houses. We talk business. We talk life and goals. I don't go there and we there's never a negative.
• 23:04
  There's and she's very brutally honest with me. She's like checks in. She plays devil's advocate maybe on certain things. And I'm like, these are the people that I need to be surrounded by. And like and then obviously meeting you guys and coming into this group of people, I think it really helps spur you wanting to continue.
• 23:23
  And it's just exciting. It's just exciting that you guys have these ideas and I'm like, oh, I could do that too.
• 23:28
  Callum Walker: Yeah. But you're like, you're constantly kind of flipping that feeling of anxiety to excitement, of overwhelm to possibilities. And really it's that thought process of you know your brain automatically whenever you're trying something out or you're executing something new your brain automatically like goes to what are the reasons why it's not gonna work. And it's hard to flip yourself into that mindset of well what if it does work? And that can be quite challenging.
• 24:04
  I think something that's helped me which is kind of along the lines of what you've just been sharing so well, is almost kind of like, in terms of what could go wrong, I think that can be really beneficial sometimes because it can actually, you you see it more of a way of identifying the hurdles and obstacles that are gonna be along the way, and it's important to keep those in check because otherwise, you know, you're deluded and you're not actually going like, well, if you aren't gonna go and do that, this, this, and this is gonna happen. So you might as well wanna make sure that there are things in place to ensure you can overcome those hurdles. But then it's also finding that balance between making sure that you have that mindset, as well as not then being crippled by it, that you then become scared to the point that it's like there's too many things that could go wrong, I'm not going to go and take action. So I guess my question to you is also, how do you keep yourself in check-in that sense? So how do you almost like because I know for me, I like to think I win more than I lose at this.
• 25:16
  For me, I definitely kind of flip between all of the reasons why it won't work to, well, what if it does work? And I have specific things in place to make sure that I can recognize that I'm in that, again, we've spoken about that gap mindset. I'm in that gap mindset and I actually need to just make the shift from negative to positive. So what are the things that help you just check yourself out and be like, well, hold on. Take a breath.
• 25:47
  Stop. Why don't we look at it from this angle? What what are the things that have helped you do that?
• 25:56
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Just slowing down and calming down to start with.
• 26:00
  Callum Walker: Sorry. And and what is what is that? If
• 26:04
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I get if I get like an idea if I get like an idea or I don't know if you suggest something or I don't know this opportunity comes up. It's like, first, it's like, oh my god, I could do this. But then it's like, oh, no. I'm not good enough. Oh, no.
• 26:22
  I'm not gonna be able to do that. And I just I don't know. I really have to sort of like take a breath and I stew on it for a little bit and I flirt back into between it could be great. No. It's no it's no good.
• 26:36
  I'm not gonna be very good at that. It's not gonna work. And then what I like to do is usually talk to you. So usually, if there's something going on, will I'll mention it to you. And it's quite nice actually to talk out loud and brainstorm.
• 26:51
  And you will see things in a different way or you will have already helped somebody else in this way in in whatever area it is. And you will just I don't know. You just have this way of putting it out there and just being like, this could work, Sam. And I don't know. It's like a go off.
• 27:10
  Go on. Go on. You can do it. And then
• 27:12
  Callum Walker: Don't make it any better.
• 27:15
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Also Will, my husband, he's
• 27:18
  Callum Walker: Mhmm.
• 27:19
  Sam Leatherbarrow: He's very calm. He is complete opposite to me. He he I will literally go to him and I'll look like a rabbit in headlights. He'll go, come on, what's it? What is it?
• 27:32
  And I'll say what the idea is and I'll go, okay. That'll be cool. And I'll go, yeah, but it won't work because of and then he'll look at me and I'll go, well, those are easy solutions. And I'm like, no. No.
• 27:46
  You don't understand, Will. I'm in the process catastrophe, like you know, making everything worse in my head right now, how dare you bring a solution to the table? But he just he just gets my body from the ceiling and he peels me off and then brings me back down and it's like, why don't you just start with one thing at a time? And that's similar to what you say is just do one thing at a time, maybe just think about this and then try this and then maybe adapt it to this. And then you do the thing which I quite like, is that you call it version one point o or two, you know, and then the second attempt is two point o or whatever.
• 28:23
  Do know what mean? And you have, like, these different versions. And what it first was, know, in your head was a massive, like, oh, risk. You attempt it and you try this thing, whether it's a like a nutrition thing or a trial or whatever. And then you do it the first time, you see what went well and what didn't, and then you improve each time.
• 28:44
  So, yeah, I don't know. I think just slowing down, taking a beat, speaking to people that I trust, and that can maybe see it from a more logical point of view rather than this this absolute, you know, explosion in my head. And, yeah, somebody just makes it a bit more logical.
• 29:06
  Callum Walker: Yeah. You know, and the thing is it's hard to see the picture when sorry. It's hard to see the frame when you're in the picture. Like and, you know, I know for me, like, Alice is I don't know how she's still with me, to be honest. But I mean, you know, she's just I remember reading a quote from Russell of course, it's from Russell Brunson.
• 29:26
  I remember reading a quote in his book where he said, I truly believe that you'll only be as successful as your partner allows you to be. And, yeah, I just think throughout the whole time I've been doing this, very similar to you Sam, that like my partner is just being invaluable. And sometimes, you know, she doesn't have a filter. She is a Rottweiler and will tell me exactly how it is. And most of the time she said, she she has this phrase, which is just get a grip.
• 29:55
  I'm like, what? So just get get fucking grip. Just get fucking grip and get on with it. And I'm like, okay. I will.
• 30:03
  I will just get on with it. Stop being a fucking pussy. Okay. Let's talk. Yeah.
• 30:08
  She's like, well, it's it's really not particularly so if I look at my mom, my mom is very like, you're amazing. Everything's gonna be great and everything. And then I have Alice who's just like, stop being a fucking pussy, get a grip, and get on And with I'm like, okay.
• 30:22
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I will. I'll go back to my mom.
• 30:27
  Callum Walker: I'm not gonna talk to you about this anymore.
• 30:30
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Alice was mean to me.
• 30:33
  Callum Walker: And then my mom goes, no. She's right. Get a grip. I'm like, this isn't supposed to come from you. But, like, I think the point I'm coming at is that, like, you know, it's having you know, again, you have all of these cliches of who you surround yourself is important, but I'm not gonna come at it from that angle.
• 30:49
  Like, it's more that like, you know, when you have people who can see things in you that you don't allow yourself to see, which is you're actually doing something incredible and you're actually doing something amazing. And again, get yourself in the gap because you're constantly thinking about what it could be and what it isn't and all of the reasons why it won't work versus why it will. When you have someone who just completely believes in you and knows that you can make it happen and that actually your idea is a fantastic idea as well, I think that having that person just allows you to just get out of the gap for that period of time and pull out and go, yeah. Because I also think, you know, we do need sometimes that external validation. And when you have someone who knows you so well and you know that they really kind of care for you and you're on this journey together, it just makes the load a little bit lighter and it can just almost kind of serve as that like just that little thing that you need to go I needed that and I can crack on with this thing and go and make it happen.
• 32:01
  Sam Leatherbarrow: So
• 32:01
  Callum Walker: you know I guess as well like you know I know we kind of joke about it being fucking heartbreaking, gut wrenching and I don't even want to call it a roller coaster because it's not a roller coaster it's just an absolute chaotic big bang sometimes. You know, how, you know, how have you like what have been the main things that you could say have been the things that have got you through, you know, the really challenging times when, you know, maybe internally you are at a point where you're just like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. Like, I don't know if, you know, this thing is actually going to work. What has allowed you to almost kind of take that step forward when most people would turn back?
• 32:48
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I have gotten better at reflecting where I started.
• 32:56
  Callum Walker: Because
• 32:58
  Sam Leatherbarrow: when I first started out, I was just winging it, completely winging it. And I think and I would definitely be lying if I said that I didn't still sit and think, my god, some days I could just throw in the towel or just simply throw a tantrum. Either one would do.
• 33:19
  Callum Walker: Yeah.
• 33:20
  Sam Leatherbarrow: And I have to sit and just maybe have that day off anyway. Maybe just take a take a rest, have a break, have a holiday like you often tell me to. And I need to sort of sit back and reflect about where I started and how far I've come. And like at the time, it never felt possible. Like I sit and if literally thinking back to who I was or where I was at, if I'd known if I'd known where I'd be now, I would not have believed it.
• 33:53
  Truly would not have believed it. Little me working part time in a gym with me bought me first van, you know, from a local painter down the road because it was his old painting van. And I never would have believed that give it however long and just keep pushing, no matter no matter how many times I wanted to give up. Yeah. I just wanna believe that where I where I am now, if you if you'd asked me,
• 34:20
  Callum Walker: that never have.
• 34:22
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I've got my gym. Now I have my gym and I always, I just never thought I would. I always had an idea in my head that I was going be a mobile PT and you know, you know, friendly, convenient and all this. And then yeah, each stage I've I've you know, I've loved it each stage, but then I always felt like there's there's more. I've I felt like I'd hit my, what do you call it, like your potential ceiling.
• 34:53
  I feel like I'd hit a ceiling where I was like, I can't physically grow anymore in this particular bit of the business and I was kind of forced to go into new shoes. By god, was very uncomfortable every single time I've had to change the way that I'm running business or doing business. So I think this is like maybe the third stage that I'm at because it used to be mobile PT, and then I had my PT in my garage and then went completely cold turkey again and set up a gym. And each time I've just wanted to throw in the towel and I just sit and think, look at where I started. I've taken these risks.
• 35:33
  They were small risks at first and solely as I built confidence in myself and the and my knowledge, I think, I don't know, I was I was able to press the f it button. I don't know if I was allowed to swear.
• 35:46
  Callum Walker: You can swear however much you want. You're all this it's quite funny. You've been this wonderfully polite individual, and you haven't heard a single a single f bomb. And I can't help but feel that you're actually wearing a mask and lying to my audience right now.
• 36:01
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Don't rely on Callum. Call me
• 36:03
  Callum Walker: out Where's on the where's the f bombs that I'm normally used to?
• 36:08
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I know. To be fair, I I am I I'm usually a swear. I can't let you just call me out on that. I was trying to be nice.
• 36:15
  Callum Walker: That'd be nice.
• 36:16
  Sam Leatherbarrow: People would be watching people would be listening to this. Right. Well, yeah. But, yeah, I just decided to press the fuck it button at every stage, and I just
• 36:24
  Callum Walker: Yeah.
• 36:25
  Sam Leatherbarrow: I remember looking at Will and saying to him, like, can I do this? And he was like, yes. Absolutely, you can. He was like, what what could possibly go wrong? He was like, you don't get any clients.
• 36:36
  You know how to knock on a person's door and sell your service. He was like, you know what to do. He was like, worse comes to worse, you go get a part time job for five minutes until you've got your first client back through the door. He was like, you know, you'll be absolutely fine, but I think reflecting on how far I've come, and then if I needed any advice or guidance, look into you and Will, because I do look to him a lot, to sort of give me that nudge and that, go on, you can do it. But I think it's quite easy to feel stuck and feel like you're not making progress.
• 37:09
  But it is true what they say that it is that the progress is in those like smaller acts every day that you do, like the little bits that you're Mhmm. Like today for the first time, I've learned how to use my mic and my camera for the laptop, and I never would have done that. And then Will's kinda well, I've got invited onto this. And then Will was like, right. You're not looking like rubbish on the the normal camera.
• 37:30
  You're gonna get your mic sorted that he bought me over a year ago, and I still haven't used. Well, you
• 37:35
  Callum Walker: bet you have used it now.
• 37:37
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Know. And now because of this, I will now do my first podcast of my own. So and it's officially on record. I have to do it. You said it got my I don't know.
• 37:48
  Think I think reflecting is the huge thing in going, I can do it. It is possible. I wouldn't be where I was now if I hadn't, if I'd thrown in the towel, so.
• 37:58
  Callum Walker: Yeah. And that constantly serves as evidence to you that like when you, yeah. When you say you're gonna do something, do end up doing it. And I think that's something that's really kinda just clear cut from you. Then it was like, you know, I am gonna go and do something and make a decision.
• 38:12
  It may not be a simple and easy process, but you you have whenever you've committed your mind to something, you have made it happen. And I think that that gives you it does give you that little bit of extra confidence to go and take the action in faith. And and I guess one other thing as well, which I think can help. What's my favorite question to ask, Samantha? What is the what is the question I consistently ask?
• 38:37
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Who do you wanna work with?
• 38:39
  Callum Walker: Now so in terms of that, you've made a you've made a real kinda like I don't necessarily have one eighty, you made a very clear cut decision that you're only gonna work with this specific type of person and with a specific individual. Again, I'll ask you to kinda talk about that in a second, but as well as kind of sharing how you decided to go and make that decision, how else would you say that like your that the clients that you work with, I don't wanna say motivate you, but inspire you to keep moving forward with this thing. Because, you know, again, if you know, if you're you're a coach listening to this, or you know, even yourself, like, you know what it's like when your clients do suck the life out of you. The people that you're working with really take from you, really kind of pull you down, really make you question whether this is what I wanna do, but also kind of sap your own confidence and belief in yourself. So I know for me, like, you know, I I definitely went through a period where I was working with people who were almost kind of like making me believe that I wasn't good enough because they were constantly talking about all of the things that I don't do for them, that I haven't done for them, that this isn't good enough, and they were almost kind of toxic people.
• 40:04
  Whereas, you know, now in the situation that, you know I'm very grateful to be in, you know I have people like yourself who is you know obviously you are a client but you get past that sort of feeling of just having that transactional client coach relationship. You know, just even having a conversation like today and just listening to, just seeing where you are at as a human being in comparison to where you were two years ago and the growth and the development. To see that is incredibly inspiring. And it's incredibly inspiring to me. And again, I almost then am able to really kind of respect the feedback that I get from people like yourself and my other clients because I know that it's legitimate feedback that I am going to look into and make a change with.
• 40:58
  But I think the reason why I'm kind of bringing this up is that, you know, you you end up spending more time with your clients most of the time than you do with your friends. So, you know, you pick your friends wisely. So why not pick your clients wisely? So I guess my question is, first of all, you know, what caused you to make the change to go down the very unique niche that you have? There's my little graphic.
• 41:20
  If you're not listening to it if you listen to this on on audio, we just had one of my little we got another thumbs up that's just come up. But first of what what caused you to make a, yeah, one could say a radical shift, and someone on the outside could say a gamble to get out of the niche that you're at. How did you go and select that person? But then on the flip side, not even just from a business point of view, obviously from a business point of view it has benefits, but how else has it helped you in terms of you know your own belief in yourself and your own desire to really kind of, you know, keep this project alive and keep it moving forward?
• 42:02
  Sam Leatherbarrow: So I think from, I don't know, I think from start to finish when you first ever become a coach, you kind of pick in whoever will come to you. You kind of take an onboard anybody because you need to. And I think actually that's not a bad thing. Think you've said something similar about at first you need to work with you need to figure out who you don't like working with. And to do that, you have to work with them.
• 42:30
  You have to work with a variety of different people. And I've worked with really, really fit people. I've worked with complete beginners, young young girls and lads. I don't know, like horse riders. I've worked with all different age groups.
• 42:46
  And I found that the ones that just naturally gravitated towards me anyway, I think it was just the way that I spoke and the way that I was with my personality, maybe my upbringing, my effing and jeffing. Yeah, I think certain people would naturally gravitate to me and I got on much better with an older audience.
• 43:09
  Callum Walker: Mhmm.
• 43:09
  Sam Leatherbarrow: And I just seem to understand when they came in, and they were like, I'm really hurting today. And I'm not talking aching from the day before from a gym session. I'm talking whether it was arthritis, how their lack of sleep, because you know, that some of them really struggle with sleep as they age. I just got it. And I think that's just from my family history.
• 43:33
  Like I'm from a like I'm from a family of diabetes for nearly everyone. I'm the youngest of eight. My mum was young, my mum was one of eight. And big German family, huge drinkers, huge smokers. Most of the people on my mum's side, all her siblings, most of them have died in their fifties, early fifties at night, my mom included in that number.
• 43:55
  And I I don't know, I think just seeing them live a certain lifestyle, I I just seem to get on better and understanding them struggles of being like, don't wanna be a fitness freak. I just wanna be able to walk and enjoy my life. Enjoy. And I think it's such a shame that people's lives are cut short because they don't have the knowledge or, I don't know, the confidence to be in a gym, learn to lift without being made to feel like a fool, or in front of a bunch of young girls or boys for example, wearing next to nothing, which is their own prerogative in the gym. Elderly people don't want that.
• 44:36
  And I think creating that space or understanding that was what helped them come to me. And then I found I enjoyed working with them because I I valued them moving better and feeling better day to day, being able to walk up a set of stairs to stay in the same bed as your partner. And I felt like that was much more rewarding to help towards being able to pick up your own grandchildren. I've got a lady whose daughter's due to have a baby, and she came to me because she's like, I want to be able to hold her in my arms for as long as possible. And I think that is so much more rewarding for me personally than helping somebody.
• 45:27
  I mean, don't get me wrong, somebody does want to get into a size twelve or whatever, great. But then then a 20 year old coming up to me saying, hey, Sam, I just want to look fit, but they're not willing to give up certain things or they're not willing to make the changes needed. So I just, I was, I didn't, I loved the girls, I loved the boys that I was working with of whatever age, personality wise and for a laugh, but I didn't enjoy helping them with their goals. It was just an effort for me. Just thought I've just got no interest in helping you.
• 45:57
  You don't want to track calories. You don't want to help yourself. Whereas these, the older audience, they come to because they know they need to help themselves, Either referred by a doctor or a physio because they're like, they're thinking, I'm hitting retirement age and I wanna enjoy my retirement. And I I I don't know, I just put they train with a purpose. They come and they are and they have such a laugh doing it.
• 46:22
  And they they come knowing that they're not gonna be, you know, athletes. Well, some of them might be but you never know. But they come and they train with for a purpose. And it's just much more meaningful in that in the gym and the talks are a lot more interesting. And when they ache and when they hurt, I'm not just, I don't know, or when they've struggled with something, I don't just brush it off and I don't just get on with it or you just don't want it enough.
• 46:51
  It's, well how about, I mean you are like nearly 80, how about you pull back a little bit and just have a rest day this, you know, today? Do you know what mean? I don't know. Just working with them is so much more enjoyable. And I found when I asked them to do something, they actually did it.
• 47:06
  Yeah. They they just did it because they wanted it. They came to me with an issue. And when I give them the guidance or a suggestion, they go and do it. Whereas a lot of the people in their late teens, twenties, thirties, sometimes even forties, they'd listen to me.
• 47:23
  I'd give them the guidance and then they'd be like, they wouldn't necessarily Not do all the time, but some a lot of them would just not do it. So yeah, I kind of figured out who I wanted to work with in that sense and I just loved it's more meaningful with me working with that particular age group over fifties. And, yeah, I think that's it. But I can't remember what your second question was.
• 47:45
  Callum Walker: No. You answered it, which is really like, you know, how does that how does that kinda, like, keep you inspired to keep taking action and grow it. I think that just kind of shone through there, that like it's the fulfillment aspects of things, but not even the fulfillment, it's the level of impact and contribution that you can have. And then when you're spending time with these people, you're doing your work. You're doing your work.
• 48:11
  It's not almost kind of work that someone says that you have to do. It's like you know this is just the work that I'm supposed to do. This is the contribution I'm supposed to give and I'm doing it in the way that I'm supposed to. You know, it's the same with how we've had a joke a lot about myself being like the question mark. And it's like, you know, again, you know, there can be a lack of definition sometimes, but it's just that whatever kind of crops up is the work that I'm supposed to be doing.
• 48:41
  And I know that through the feeling that you get. And when you get the feeling of maybe deflation and when it becomes a grind, so to speak, of You know, I remember working with people just helping them lose weight, and it was just a struggle. And it was a struggle because one, I'd never been overweight myself. So in terms of my ability to really like connect with people, I couldn't fully connect with the struggles. I really struggled with it.
• 49:12
  I did. I struggled with a lot of the excuses. And I think that made me quite maybe cold sometimes. And also he definitely would hold me back from being a great coach because I couldn't fully empathize and understand because I hadn't been in that situation before. And I couldn't empathise and understand the struggle and the challenge.
• 49:38
  You know I could definitely understand the desire to want to be fitter, to want to be healthier, to use exercise, to use nutrition, to sleep better, But within that specific realm, it was just a real struggle and a challenge and it became a grind. And it became work, but work in the fashion of what work is almost kind of pushed to us as, you know, as soon as you finish school, it's like, now you're gonna go to work as opposed to get to do your work. And I think it's a shame because so many coaches and PTs, like, when you first qualify as a coach, like, automatically you think that, like, a personal trainer, a coach, even a nutritionist, deals with weight loss, deals with fat loss. And that's what I'm gonna do. I mean, as a personal trainer or as a coach, I'm gonna go and just help people lose weight.
• 50:31
  And I think that, you know, it takes some courage to ask yourself the question, is that actually what I want to be doing? Is that how I actually want to use my skill set? And I think what's amazing with you is that you have a fantastic knowledge of being able to help people lose weight. You have a great knowledge of helping people get into shape. But you're not limited to solely you don't run a glorified weight watchers, like you don't.
• 50:53
  You have a thriving community which is really about actually how you can use these vehicles that yeah, there can be some clients who do need to drop body fat, but it's for a far greater and for a far more impactful purpose and reason, right? You said they're a grandmother or a grandfather being able to hold their grandchild to be able to you know sleep in a bed with a partner, it's more meaningful to you. And I think that when you're able to do that, this thing does become your work as opposed to work that I have to turn up to. I think you're just a real shining example of that, and it is so inspiring. Like you know I look at I know you don't like praise at all, know, but get over it.
• 51:38
  You know like, if I kind of look at like fourteen months ago, you know fourteen months ago you hadn't got what you've got now. You hadn't done what you've done. And I just think the way in which those small daily actions, me and you always joked about this thing, A fucking journaling. Gonna write my stupid fucking journal. I've got my stupid fucking walks, listen to my stupid fucking podcast, doing my stupid fucking ice bath, doing my stupid fucking doing my stupid training session, my stupid affirmation, all of this sort of crap.
• 52:10
  Like, you know, it can get debilitating, but the fact that, you know, those things are a part of you and that you do take those daily actions to just improve it, it's it's it's inevitable that it was always inevitable that what you've been able to create and been able to do was always gonna come to fruition, but then it's not even the external success that you've had in terms of what you've been able to create. I look at the person that you are now, like, look at what you're able to do. Like, you're, you know, I fully I know you don't like you probably won't like me saying it, so you're a full on fucking businesswoman. Do you know what I mean? Like, you're a proper businesswoman, a proper entrepreneur, you know, doing this, this, and this.
• 52:53
  And it's just so inspiring. Like, you know, again, look at the the whole journey that you've been through. You know, you've hit some you had some incredibly soul destroying challenges, and you've kept moving forward, right? You have. And there's this, you know, unwavering faith that may not show up in your mind sometimes, but it shows up in your actions.
• 53:14
  And I know for myself, like, you know, one thing that's always stood out to me, I remember Napoleon Hill talking about this in his book Outweaken the Devil, where he said that you need faith in order to keep moving forward with things, but persistence and continuous daily action is the ultimate test of faith in yourself. And the thing is even when things are hard, even when things suck you know suck the whole life out of you and the spirit out of you, you still find a way to just go,
• 53:46
  Sam Leatherbarrow: yes. Yes, you do. Yeah, you do.
• 53:50
  Callum Walker: I was talking about you, not just me.
• 53:53
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, some of that we still have to figure out, don't we? We just get up and go again.
• 53:59
  Callum Walker: But that's all you can do. Do you know what I mean? Just get up and just crack on. I'm like, right. You know, why is this thing not working?
• 54:05
  What is not working here? And then you go and take that small action. Like you said you know go and do version one and then version two then version three and then yeah you move forward. This has been an absolute pleasure. I mean we definitely have to do this again and I'm so excited to hear your first podcast episode.
• 54:27
  Sam Leatherbarrow: There you go.
• 54:28
  Callum Walker: Yeah. No, I am. But I am. So but no. Honestly, Sam, you are just an absolute yeah.
• 54:36
  You're an absolute inspiration. You really, really are. And, yeah, it's been it's been just amazing and an absolute blessing to be part of your journey and to continue on the journey we are going on together as well, which
• 54:49
  Sam Leatherbarrow: is exciting.
• 54:49
  Callum Walker: Yeah. So right. So I just wanna say a huge thank you. A huge, huge thank you for your time and for, yeah, just sharing just sharing where you've been been at, and I hope you enjoyed it. Do you have any closing remarks that you wish to share?
• 55:07
  So if we have, you know, right now, we've got two people who are probably going to be listening. We have a personal trainer who probably gonna be a bit stuck. Mhmm. You know, kinda cast your mind back to, you know, where you were, you know on the brink of you know ultimately questioning whether this thing is actually going to work for you. And you're at that sort of place.
• 55:32
  Yeah, advice can you give to that person?
• 55:38
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Oh, this is like pressure, isn't it? Well, without it sounding cringey, I feel like you said it before about just having this this utter I don't know, faith in yourself of, like, just making it work. Like, don't get me wrong. This isn't for everybody. And I feel like that that's okay.
• 56:07
  It is okay if it's not for everybody. But if there's a bit of you that feels like you have more to give, and you just have this last little push left in you, 100%, like, just take the leap. At the end of the day, if you're in this mindset of I'm close to maybe, you know, quitting it or I'm really stuck. I'm stuck at a bit of a crossroads, don't really know the decision to make. Is it a good don't get me wrong.
• 56:30
  There are sometimes you need to have a reasonable conversation with yourself. But pressing that fuck it button and thinking, what have I got to lose? Like, what if it turns out to be really good and really positive? And there will be people around you who'll be like, oh, that's a that's a bit risky. Like I remember when my dad came in here and he was helping me paint.
• 56:51
  And my dad's me and my dad had never really been that close. But he came in and he asked what my overheads were gonna be. And I told him and he was like, was like, how many clients have you got? And I was like, I did this, you know, cold turkey. I just went straight into the gym and I I came across with five clients on a found a on a founder's, you know, price.
• 57:09
  And I told him how much I'd be bringing in versus how much my overheads were and he went, how are you gonna make it work? And I looked at him, I was like, I'll just have to make it work. Like, I'll just make it work. I always have, dad. Like, I always have made it work.
• 57:23
  So if you just know you've got it in you, then stick with it. Give it a go. Sometimes you do have to press that fucking button and maybe just check with a few people around you, just just the odd person maybe just to check-in just like, I'm not completely crazy. Here am I? But, you know, it'll be sometimes it's the best decision you'll ever make and just go for it.
• 57:43
  Hang in there. We're all just figuring it out.
• 57:46
  Callum Walker: Oh, I love that. I absolutely love that. Well, thank you so much, Sam.
• 57:52
  Sam Leatherbarrow: Yes. Thank you.
• 57:53
  Callum Walker: It's a pleasure. Never forget, if every one of your clients gave you just one new client, you have doubled your business. See you later, guys. Have you got a client who isn't losing weight right now and you have absolutely no idea why? And maybe you're worrying that if nothing changes, they could drop off at any moment?
• 58:11
  Well, I've got a free nutrition masterclass for you where I reveal the secret nutrition strategy that guarantees that that stuck client loses two to four pounds in the next seven days without lowering their calories, upping their cardio, or even tracking macros. Click the link in the description to get access to the free elite nutrition secrets masterclass and get your client moving in the right direction, stopping them dropping off today.