Latest / Chrisman Commentary - Daily Mortgage News / 1.30.25 IMB Wrap; Depth's Kerri Milam on Relationships; Fed Stays Put

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1.30.25 IMB Wrap; Depth's Kerri Milam on Relationships; Fed Stays Put · Chrisman Commentary - Daily Mortgage News

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Christman Commentary, Daily Mortgage News Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Robbie Christman.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Topics on today's episode include concluding thoughts from IMB, my interview with Depps, Carrie Milam on relationship management and brand awareness for individuals and companies in the mortgage industry.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And why the Fed decided to leave rates as is.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks to today's podcast sponsor, Figure.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Rates seem like they're higher for longer, and it's the perfect time for you to consider a HELOC or HELON strategy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Figure is the right partner.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Fifty percent of the top IMBs use them, and if you're not one of them, it's time to get on it.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Check out Figure.com and their information about partnerships on their website.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Any capital markets person will tell you what's a surefire way to double your money in a casino.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Fold it in half and put it back in your pocket.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in Las Vegas for First Colonies Loan Officer Retreat, watching the tragic air news from Washington, and the NBA's IMB in Austin has come to a successful conclusion.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yesterday, the talk in the hallways was about Donald Trump rescinding his OMB freeze.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: There are probably other ways to accomplish his goals.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: At the IMB, innovation is alive and well.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: For example, how about a bank that shows you your carbon footprint on your statement?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's New Zip, a centralized real estate platform.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's AMC Encore, a sister company of RSDS appraisal diversity, for appraiser training.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, the future of the CFPB's focus is at play, as well as its action against Draper and Kramer Mortgage Corporation for discriminatory mortgage lending.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Activities that discouraged home buyers from applying to Draper for homes in majority black and Hispanic neighborhoods in the greater Chicago and Boston areas.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: You think lenders discourage potential customers?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: For today's interview, I wanted to welcome to the show Depths Carrie Mylam to talk about relationship management and brand awareness for individuals and companies in the mortgage industry.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: I want to start by talking about how you got into the industry.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we actually are launching this other show called This Mortgage Life, where we go into people's backgrounds.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they have good conference stories or whatever it might be.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: But for you, you and I had talked offline, as I love to do with you.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned it was actually as a young girl from the South, Jimmy Carter had an influence on you getting into the industry.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm hoping you can kind of give listeners your origin story, your background story here.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there was a there was a wonderful convergence as I was becoming of an age, you know, in 1976, Jimmy Carter was elected president.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time I had gotten myself through college and entered the workforce, Jimmy Carter had done his one term and begun working on the Carter Presidential Center, which was just around the corner from my favorite tavern at the time.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So as a byproduct of that proximity, I met a lot of people early in my career who were involved with Carter.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then as time progressed, of course, he got very involved with the Habitat for Humanity group.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is going on a parallel track as I'm beginning to think about what to do with my degree in English and political science.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a good thing to say that Jimmy Carter, for that reason, sort of became my true north professionally.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I never worked at the Carter Center and I never worked for Habitat for Humanity, I have to say that that entire context contributed to what I decided to do when I had the chance to take a PR and marketing job with Georgia's HFA.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: At the time it was GHFA, it's now under the Department of Community Affairs.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, really, I went from being a young professional into the Georgia Housing and Finance Authority, which, if you know about HFAs, HFAs are not just a nonprofit do-good organization.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: They are responsible for the responsible financial administration of federal and state housing-related laws.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: So one of my responsibilities in that job was developing an annual report.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I developed three annual reports, and this English major learned a lot about how to put the financials together to tuck into the back of that annual report.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: So by the time I had worked at the GHFA and come to understand the fiscal responsibility that was contained in that organization, I felt like I had an understanding of where the business possibilities in housing and mortgage and lending were.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you can extrapolate that forward a little bit to today with depth.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I know it's probably a long road between then and now, but if you could kind of take us through how working at the HFA there led you to where you are now, it would be cool for listeners to hear.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can compress that pretty well.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um after being at Georgia's HFA, I came to know the professionals at our auditing firm, which was, I don't know if it still is, KPMG.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And through some contacts that I made, getting the financials right for the annual report, I met some folks, some influential folks who were on the board of GHFA and also board members at KPMG.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I took a career leap and went more toward a business profession, more into the business side of my profession.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the combination of the HFA experience and the KPMG business perspective that helped me land a job with another Atlanta-based PR firm that focused on this industry.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they liked my background.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the path from GHFA to KPMG to getting into PR in the mortgage industry was straightforward.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people start businesses for the reason I did.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I could do a better job.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I looked at the model in which I was working, and I thought, I think I can bring this up a notch and own the company.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that that was how that happened.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You currently run Depth, which has a variety of services.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: It offers advertising, marketing, or public relations components of it.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You manage a team of successful women.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about what you're doing today a little bit, and and I guess I would say I would veer you toward the side of why it brings you so much joy or why it's what you choose to do professionally.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what depth does is all about reputation and relationship building.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I would, I would, what I'd like to do is make a distinction between advertising, which we of course do some, you know, advertising being paying for a presence in a media outlet where you otherwise might not find yourself.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do that, but we're not really hanging our hat on uh graphic advertising, the development of advertising campaigns that are visual.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's not what we do.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: The emphasis on what we bring to our clients is how do you create and establish a reputation upon which your potential customers will rely and turn to when they make a decision about using a service provider?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: There are two ways to go about it, probably more than that, but I tend to put them in two categories of reputation building and paid placement.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to get the value that's inherent in spending time on the discipline of reputation creating.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're going to categorize depth and what depth is bringing to its clients in the mortgage industry, it's a disciplined approach to establishing and extending your reputation.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Advertising is a different goal altogether.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: I see it as more of a brand recognition exercise.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people tend not to dwell on a full-page ad in a magazine, whether it's digital or physical.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's usually meant to be a bold impression that hits you as you're flipping by.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a place in the world for that, and there's value to that.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what depth is doing is about subject matter expertise and credibility, which is at the heart of creating a reputation.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so for lenders or vendors or individuals or those that might be considering working with depth or or a firm that does offer similar services, what's the rationale that you can provide for them engaging with you?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: The work that goes into building and creating reputation can't be bought, but it is still a discipline.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And what our firm provides to its clients, and we're working with 20 different companies that are B2B service providers to mortgage lenders, um, that what we're about is creating a an understanding of relevance and credibility that if you are a lender and you are looking to increase your efficiencies and maybe reduce headcount across the board, you're going to be looking for the kind of efficiencies that automation can deliver to you.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: But there have got to be 15 or more people providing loan origination systems, point of sale systems.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you stand out?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Some people think that that is a function of lead generation and following up on leads, and that is a strategy.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we also think that it's an important strategy to build and reinforce reputation via primarily demonstrating some subject matter expertise and an understanding, an intimate understanding of lenders' challenges in creating leads.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it doesn't sound like it's purely quantifiable.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's also qualifiable factors when it comes to people coming up to you at conferences, the recognition you might receive.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to ROI that you can quantify, how should someone judge working with a firm like depth?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: What is success versus lesser success?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: What should people be uh going for in entering into an engagement like this?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the one of the consequences of working with a PR firm or reputation firm is salespeople encountering a prospect that already knows their name.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think a cold call is probably the hardest thing people in sales do.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And oftentimes, if you've just generated leads through a CRM continuum versus generating an understanding, familiarity, and reputation through subject matter expertise work, I think it's the difference between your salesman being known when they make their first call or having to spend the first five minutes of an important valuable lead interaction in explaining who you are.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: So both you and I operate in this business to business space primarily.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm wondering if you can talk about when it comes to building a reputation, the differences between a person or entity operating in the business to business space and a person or entity operating in the business to consumer space.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Building reputation in the business to consumer space is more about experience, actual experience with the product.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So building reputation as a lender with a potential borrower is often a result of relationships that you've had with others.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: For me, the greatest challenge is being a lender, where borrowers buy on price often, and the relationship portion of it is complicated.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think the B2C reputation building it makes it easy to understand why people resort to advertising and lead generation because building reputation is a long tail strategy.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Lenders are often reacting to daily or weekly fluctuations in interest rates, which are driving interest more than anything else.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's difficult for a lender to put the long-term investment into reputation building, it's often not surprising to me that lenders choose the lead generation route above and beyond the reputation building.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Although I believe that if lenders would commit themselves to reputation building with the same fervor and financial investment that they put into lead generation, that over time the need to generate cold leads will subside because reputation building will drive business in your direction versus lenders having to chase that business.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we're certainly at an interesting crossroads right now where technology is as advanced as ever and is rapidly evolving, but that almost makes people want that human connection more.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: The more I hear robots on a phone call, the more I just want to talk to a human type of thing.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I'm I'm wondering from your side of things, how you weigh these competing factors almost of, hey, well, we can be so efficient with technology, technologies, and also, hey, I just want to connect with a human.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: How do you weigh those for your clients?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't exactly weigh those for my clients.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: We have an approach that we believe in and we're dedicated to it.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying we haven't changed the way that we deliver service.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, everybody's had to, as you were saying earlier in the call, you know, we're post-COVID.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you not know how to operate your Zoom yet?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there are a lot of um contextual changes that you just don't have any control over.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And for me to dig my heels in and say, no, I'm not going to get involved with Zoom, or no, I'm not going to get involved with LinkedIn, all of these are important shifts to make.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: But underlying all of it, depth is committed to this idea that reputation building is about relationship building.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to build relationships with transparency and dialogue and going to the trouble of understanding the other person's perspective.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, think about that.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: People know how that understanding other people's perspective works in their personal relationship.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm going to listen to my wife.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm going to, you know, try to give my girlfriend what makes her happy, but people don't think about as strategically the value of empathy in a business relationship and the role that closely listening to your prospect plays in that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a company that has made a long-term commitment to listening and empathizing and cultivating subject matter expertise, they have the building blocks for relationship building.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I am encouraged by the development that you pointed out.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's true.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the initial fascination with a digital voice, the initial fascination that came with artificial relationship, has passed.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people have run into the reality that a digital environment's incapable of empathy.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I've certainly enjoyed building and developing my relationship with you.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it made me realize when you were giving that answer, maybe there isn't an end goal.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's just a continuous goal of having the best relationship possible, having the best relations as possible.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: And uh maybe I'll close by by saying, what are best next steps for people that uh liked hearing from you today or think that depth could really benefit them or uh whatever it might be?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: What are what are the best next steps for them?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope that you'll inform yourself one more step by visiting our website, www.depthpr.com, and take a look at the current um slate of companies that trust us today and have trusted us for many years running.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to arm yourself with that and then be in touch with me.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you can reach me at carrie at depthpr.com.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'd like to have a listening session with you.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I want not so much to tell you what I can do for you as to hear what you need.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the best start for a relationship.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Carrie, I always enjoy talking to you.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for making the time today.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Robbie.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: The Federal Reserve kept monetary policy unchanged in its first Federal Open Market Committee meeting of 2025, aligning with market expectations.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: The Fed cited strong economic growth, a robust job market, and inflation still above target as reasons to maintain the current federal funds rate.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Quantitative tightening continues as planned.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: With no major changes in the statement, attention now shifts to upcoming speeches for clues to future rate cuts.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: The Fed acknowledged inflation remains elevated, slightly adjusting his previous language on progress toward the 2% target.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: President Trump's tariff policies posed potential inflation risks, adding uncertainty to future rate decisions.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: The first look at Q4 GDP, which came in up 2.3% annualized, and jobless claims, which came in at 207,000, kicked off today's calendar.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Personal consumption was up 4.2% on an annualized basis.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Later today brings pending home sales for December, Freddie Mac's primary mortgage market survey, the latest policy decision from the ECB, and more earnings from Wall Street.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: We begin Thursday with agency MBS prices better than Wednesday's close by a quarter to three eighths, the two-year yielding 4.20, and the ten-year yielding four point five zero after closing yesterday at four point five zero percent.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's wrap up with a joke and some housekeeping.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: A cowboy rode into town outside of Dallas and stopped at a saloon for a drink.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, the locals always had the habit of picking on strangers, which he was.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: When he finished his drink, he found his horse had been stolen.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: He went back into the bar and Lee flipped his gun into the air, caught it above his head without even looking, and fired a shot into the ceiling.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Which one of you sidewinders stole my horse?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: He yelled with surprising forcefulness.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: No one answered.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, I'm gonna have another beer, and if my horse ain't back outside by the time I finish, I'm gonna do what I done in Houston.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't like to have to do what I done in Houston.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the locals shifted restlessly.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: The man, true to his word, had another beer, walked outside, and his horse had been returned to the post.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: He saddled up and started to ride out of town.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: The bartender wandered out of the bar and asked, Say, partner, before you go, what happened in Houston?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: The cowboy turned back and said, I had to walk up.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again to today's podcast sponsor, Figure.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Fifty percent of the top IMBs use them, and if you haven't examined your HELOC or HELON strategy recently, it's time to get on it.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Learn more at figure technologies.com.