Latest / HER / 50 Pounds Off: Living with a GLP Med

Transcript

50 Pounds Off: Living with a GLP Med · HER

0:07
Pam Peeke, MD: Hi, I'm Dr.
0:08
Pam Peeke, and this is episode 561 of The Bold and the Brave, Her Podcast.
0:19
Now, today I'm joined by a dear friend and colleague of a long time, I think.
0:28
Oh my goodness gracious.
0:29
we're gonna be delving into something.
0:31
You better be just sitting back and taking some notes here, girlfriends,
0:36
because this is really gonna be an eye-opening, authentic, raw, real
0:42
episode that you need to hear.
0:45
It's a journey that so many of us are on right now, and
0:49
that's all about our weight.
0:51
Ah!
0:52
Okay, so here we go.
0:55
Tara Parker-Pope is really renowned and is known as literally
1:06
one of the top award-winning journalist authors, out there.
1:11
Now, when I first heard of Tara, I believe she, you can correct me, but I believe
1:17
she, got me, with The Wall Street Journal.
1:22
It was an interview.
1:24
Is that correct, Tara?
1:25
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: It was The Wall Street Journal.
1:26
That's when we first met many
1:28
Pam Peeke, MD: Yeah.
1:28
And how long ago was that when you were with The Wall Street Journal?
1:32
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Do I have to say?
1:33
It was a very long time ago.
1:35
I was with The Wall Street
1:37
Pam Peeke, MD: the numbers then
1:38
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Well, I'm trying to think when I started
1:39
writing the health column for The Wall Street Journal, it would've
1:42
been like 2000, something like that.
1:46
And I, I don't remember exactly when our conversation was, but,
1:51
it was sometime in the aughts.
1:54
Pam Peeke, MD: Yeah.
1:55
And then, you know, what's interesting is you've had an incredible journey, as
2:02
a, a top-level journalist and editor.
2:07
know, all the way, I mean Anyone who reads The New York Times would
2:13
remember the Well section that was run by Tara Parker-Pope for years.
2:19
And I would just make a beeline to it every single time new
2:24
material, new content showed up.
2:27
And of course, I also worked with you with that and your wonderful team
2:31
out there as we did articles together and interviews and back and forth.
2:36
And then off to The Washington Post you went to do exactly the same thing, kind
2:42
of gracing and blessing everyone with your presence, and your marvelous work.
2:48
And now, like so many people, you pivoted, and you started really doing something I
2:55
love to call talent stacking, and that's showing what else you could do as well.
3:00
So you became chief content officer at Thrive Global, and many of you know Thrive
3:07
Global, because it's associated with Arianna Huffington, and there you were.
3:13
And then, you know, meanwhile, you're earning numerous
3:17
honors, and it goes on and on.
3:19
And then you did another beautiful pivot, which so many people are
3:25
doing today, which is so cool, and that is now you've got a robust and
3:31
thriving Substack presence with your Substack newsletter, One Day Better.
3:39
And it was so interesting.
3:41
This is why we're having this conversation because you wrote a Substack that was
3:46
jaw-dropping, and it just sort of floated across my feed, and there you were, and
3:52
it was all about your journey with GLP.
3:59
it, was so beautifully written, not surprising, but it was, intensely
4:06
personal, it was something that you don't read so often at all.
4:12
Most of the time, especially me as a physician, I'm reading all this
4:15
high-level medical blah, blah, and it goes on, and the GLPs can do
4:20
this, and they can't do that, and here's how you prescribe and what.
4:23
I wanna know what the real-life experience is because it's
4:29
not just about weight at all.
4:32
It's about so many other layers of what's going on in people
4:36
who have experiences with GLP.
4:40
And so there's that going on.
4:43
I just, you know, wanted to make certain that people know that
4:51
There's more and more of this beautiful, authentic, experiential content coming
4:59
out, and I think Tara leads the way.
5:02
So Tara, please tell us how this whole thing started up with you with the GLPs.
5:10
Like why?
5:11
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Yeah.
5:12
So I have often talked-- I think part of the reason I was somewhat successful
5:17
in the health space is I've always been very honest and related to readers.
5:21
I've always talked about some of my own issues, you know, whether it was a health
5:25
journey with my mom's cancer or, you know, my own struggles with, managing my weight.
5:33
And I've never been one to sort of, I'm thrilled to have the body that
5:36
I have, and it has gotten me, you know, moved me through the world,
5:39
and I'm-- I really accept that we come in all shapes and sizes.
5:44
But I do care greatly, deeply about health, and, I always have and, and health
5:51
has been my specialty in journalism.
5:53
I have a master's in public health.
5:55
And so I've always been very interested in the journey of people who want
6:00
to lower their weight for health reasons or any really reason and,
6:04
for healthy reasons, let's say.
6:06
I mean, there's some people that maybe it's not a healthy journey.
6:08
But I
6:11
I wanna talk about that and I wrote a big, I wrote a big magazine story when I was at
6:15
The New York Times called "The Fat Trap."
6:17
And it really focused on, challenges that once you become overweight
6:23
and once you've lived a life as a chronic dieter, which I have.
6:26
I mean, I went through the whole restrictive eating and, I probably started
6:30
my first diet maybe in the seventh grade.
6:33
I had a mother who dieted.
6:35
We had very strict rules in the house around food.
6:38
Parents, please don't do this to your children.
6:40
You know, I had to ask permission to open the refrigerator and take food out of
6:43
the refrigerator and I grew up in a house where my mother was constantly dieting.
6:46
And it, it hurts my heart a little bit.
6:48
My mom's not here anymore, but, you know, she suffered a lot of shame
6:52
and guilt and all these emotions around her weight, and I think we
6:55
didn't understand as much back then.
6:57
So, when I wrote "The Fat Trap," it really was about the science of
7:00
dieting and how bad it is for you and how, how, unhealthy eating patterns
7:05
just do a number on your body.
7:07
They-- you know, Biggest Loser study, which I know you're aware
7:09
of, showed that those people who had extreme weight, weight loss,
7:12
they-- their metabolisms changed.
7:15
They gained a lot of weight back.
7:16
It's really a challenging journey once you're on it.
7:19
So, you know, I really do believe that the best thing you can do for
7:23
your body is to not gain weight, to sort of stop it from, you know, really
7:27
manage, you know, healthy eating.
7:28
That's really what I've tried to do with, with, you know, my child
7:31
and, and-- But once you are in this situation, it's very hard to lose weight.
7:36
It's very hard to keep weight off.
7:37
We've seen that time and time again.
7:39
So, when the-- I've talked about this.
7:41
I, I understand the biology and the science of, of weight loss, and when
7:46
the GLP-1s came around, I was, I was really deeply interested because
7:52
it's very hard to stay on a, a, a, a restricted eating plan and, you
8:00
know, your body changes after dieting.
8:02
It's just, it's a, it's a struggle, and I really empathize with people who
8:05
have it and who want to lose weight.
8:06
For me, I have diabetes in my family.
8:09
I have high blood pressure in my family.
8:12
I have, weight-related cancers in my family.
8:16
And my-- It has never for me been about how I look.
8:19
It's been about how I feel, my ability to exercise, my ability to get out of
8:24
a chair to, you know, and to manage chronic pain from rheumatoid arthritis.
8:29
And so that's where I started, and these drugs came out and I tried them.
8:34
I tried one.
8:35
I tried Wegovy, and as a doctor might say, I failed Wegovy.
8:40
I was on it for about three months, and I had so many side
8:44
effects And I really suffered.
8:48
I was sick like four days a week.
8:50
I would have three good days.
8:52
But I didn't understand it because I wasn't eating a large volume of food, but
8:56
I, I-- and my doctor couldn't help me.
8:58
There was just no information for us back then.
9:00
And I really went on Reddit threads, and I looked around, and I realized that I had--
9:06
I was trying to eat the same, just less.
9:09
You can't do that on a GLP-1.
9:12
So I don't wanna like go on too much, but I started that
9:14
journey with no information.
9:17
I, I suffered a lot, and I would say I failed.
9:19
I had to get off the drug.
9:20
I was just sick all the time.
9:22
And then I started doing a lot more research.
9:25
I decided that I wanted to try Mounjaro, I went into that with a
9:29
lot more information and a lot more sort of, conscious eating around…
9:34
You know, I have, I have a very-- I have definitely had a very strong
9:38
response to GLP-1s, good and bad.
9:41
But that's how it started.
9:42
It started after just sort of a lifelong quest to, to achieve a
9:47
healthy weight for my health and just I don't ever need to be a size two.
9:52
I just wanna be able to walk my dog and move and have energy and,
9:57
and lower my risk for chronic conditions, and that's always been
9:59
my goal with, with weight management
10:02
Pam Peeke, MD: Tell us about the rheumatoid arthritis
10:05
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Yeah, this has been a kind of separate journey for me
10:09
that I, I haven't really written about that much or talked about that much.
10:13
But I have had chronic pain for many years, and I have often gone to physicians
10:18
with a turned ankle or a knee, you know, a knee, knee pain or elbow pain, wrist pain.
10:24
Pick a joint, any joint, it hurts.
10:28
And I would-- I knew that it wasn't normal injuries 'cause it
10:32
was bilateral, it was both sides.
10:34
It just never made any sense.
10:36
And my worst problem, the problem that kept me up at night, that would make me
10:40
cry, I would literally not be able to have a blanket on my feet, was my ankle pain.
10:45
A blanket was too heavy, it just caused too much pain.
10:47
It was just excruciating.
10:49
And you don't think when your feet, when your feet aren't
10:52
well, your body's not well.
10:53
It's a strange thing 'cause it's just so fundamental and found--
10:57
literally foundational to your health.
10:59
And so I would go to doctor after doctor, and they all said to me the same
11:03
thing, "You just need to lose weight."
11:06
And I heard this in my 20s when I was a pretty normal weight.
11:09
You know, I was 135 pounds, and they said, you know, at five-seven, and they
11:14
said, "You just need to lose weight."
11:16
So I wasn't getting great, great responses.
11:19
And so I went through many years of pain and just frustration, and I, I had
11:27
the horrible experience of tearing a meniscus, and it was incredibly painful.
11:31
And when I went to that sports medicine doctor, I said, "While I'm
11:35
here, can we talk about my ankles?"
11:39
My ankles were just…
11:40
I was still in so much pain.
11:42
I probably tore the meniscus because my gait was, you know, messed up,
11:46
and my ankles were like this big.
11:48
And he looked at my ankles, he took one look, and he said, "You don't
11:52
need me, you need a rheumatologist."
11:55
And I was like, "Wait, what?
11:56
I've only seen about 25 doctors for this," and none of them had
12:00
referred me to a rheumatologist.
12:01
So I went to a rheumatologist that got referred to me, through some
12:06
good doctors, and he is a wonderful person who changed my life because he
12:11
said, you know, "Tell me your story."
12:14
And he went back to my 20s when I had plantar fasciitis and I had, I
12:18
had carpal tunnel, and I just sort of went through all my injuries and
12:21
my aches and my pains, and my ankles were still, you know, this big.
12:25
And he pressed on me and he, he asked me more questions and he would like
12:30
find a spot that would be so painful.
12:32
I felt like he knew what he was doing.
12:34
And he goes, "I, I think I've got the answer for you.
12:38
I don't think that you have pain because you're overweight.
12:45
I think you're overweight because you have pain."
12:47
I'm
12:47
Pam Peeke, MD: Okay.
12:48
So I want everyone to hear that 'cause this, this is like a real mindblower, and
12:56
that is pain itself decreases the ability to be able to do physical activity.
13:04
And many times people, you know, kind of anesthetize the pain as it were,
13:09
just by eating, you know, because it's just sort of soothing, and rewarding
13:15
when you're in pain and especially when there's no answer to it.
13:19
It's like, where is this coming from?
13:21
I can't even imagine how bad that must have felt all those years of pain in your
13:28
multiple joints, especially your ankles, and nobody coming up with a solution other
13:34
than, "Hey, why don't you drop a few?"
13:36
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: It was frustrating and I was very active.
13:38
You know, even overweight, I was still a runner.
13:41
I ran a marathon.
13:42
I, I was, you know, walking a lot.
13:46
I was always a very-- I always had this identity as an active person.
13:49
You know, when I was in high school, I was a track star, I was a cross-country star.
13:54
never really thought of myself as someone who couldn't just move a lot.
13:59
And then when the pain started, it was really affecting my ability,
14:02
and it was just depressing.
14:04
so he, he did do a bunch of blood work, and I was diagnosed with rheumatoid
14:08
arthritis, and that was actually in 2018.
14:11
And I took various medicines, didn't feel great on them.
14:15
A lot of them are designed to suppress your immune system.
14:18
And when COVID hit, I didn't really want to suppress my immune
14:20
system, so I just kind of suffered.
14:23
I learned-- I was trying to eat anti-inflammatory diet
14:26
and I was trying to, you know, really manage through all that.
14:30
okay, so this was a very separate journey for me, the pain journey and
14:34
the weight journey at that point.
14:37
But when I would say they kind of merged, I was about, I was actually on
14:42
Wegovy, even though I was throwing up and sick in so many ways I won't explain
14:47
to your readers or to your listeners.
14:50
I remember I was about a week in, maybe a week and a half into Wegovy, but I
14:55
remember, you know, getting up out of bed, the mornings are really rough.
14:59
You're really stiff in your joints.
15:01
I always felt like the Tin Man.
15:03
I needed like-- I always said because when I would get out of a chair at a restaurant
15:07
or out of bed, I was always kind of creaky and moving like I was 70 years old.
15:11
I was almost in a walker at this point because I was really in bad shape.
15:15
The, the pain was so extreme and I was resisting that.
15:19
But I, I got up one morning and I sort of swung my legs over the bed,
15:23
and usually that first step was so painful and I, I put weight on my
15:28
feet and I was like, "Wait, what?"
15:31
And I took a few steps and I was like, "This can't be real.
15:35
This has got to be my imagination."
15:38
But I, I didn't have pain and I thought, "What has happened?
15:46
What has changed?"
15:48
And the only thing that had changed at that point was the GLP-1 I was on.
15:52
And that's probably why I stayed on the drug for three months because
15:55
I was so convinced and I started doing some research, you know, about
15:59
their anti-inflammatory effects, but it was still pretty new back then.
16:02
I was very determined to get back on a drug, and so I, I really learned
16:06
a lot and I learned that like protein is your friend on a GLP-1.
16:11
sugar is not your friend.
16:13
And what I kind of love about being on a GLP-1 is that I don't want sugar
16:19
because it doesn't make me feel good.
16:21
And it's, it's really conquered some of those cravings I had before.
16:25
And I've just learned also alcohol.
16:27
I was never a big drinker ever, but, now I just don't even have a taste for it, and
16:34
I'm happy to give it up because of all the health benefits of, you know, lowering--
16:39
especially when you have chronic pain
16:41
Pam Peeke, MD: What about food noise?
16:43
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: The food noise really does-- You don't
16:45
know you have it until it's gone.
16:47
You know, this is a whole new vocabulary.
16:50
We never talked about food noise until the GLP-1s came out and the, and the
16:54
GLP-1 community, bless them, have created this cultural conversation for us.
17:00
again, these-- I'm so grateful to these people who are putting their
17:03
stories on Reddit, and that's probably why I share my story, other people's
17:06
stories helped me figure this out and figure what I was doing wrong.
17:10
I was using like like an air fryer and like cooking foods in an air
17:14
fryer and being very healthy.
17:15
But I will never forget the, the sickest I ever was.
17:19
I, I had a favorite restaurant in Wash-- I was living in Washington,
17:22
DC, and they had this most delicious kale salad you've ever had.
17:26
It's so good.
17:27
It's just delicious.
17:29
I loved it so much.
17:30
And I ate that kale salad and was really, really sick after.
17:36
Because in hindsight, you know, when your digestion is slowed, when food is
17:41
sitting in your stomach longer, you know, serious roughage like that, I, I learned
17:46
that that was just not something at that point in my journey that I could eat.
17:50
Now, I will still eat kale, but I have to be kind of careful with kale.
17:55
Like, I'd rather eat like cooked spinach or something, you know,
17:57
more-- that's more digestible for me.
18:00
But these are the things that nobody tells you.
18:02
It never occurred to me that I could pick a really healthy dish like a kale salad.
18:07
It had nuts in it and, you know…
18:09
And I, I never liked cheese anyway, so I never put the, you know, it didn't
18:12
have a lot of other stuff in it.
18:14
Avocado, and it still made me very ill.
18:17
And so I just learned along the way what I could and could not do, and I
18:22
learned that lean protein was my friend.
18:27
getting a lot of vegetables in smoothies and soups because they
18:30
were easier for me to digest.
18:32
And I learned to manage.
18:33
I cut out alcohol because that did not make me feel good at all.
18:37
And weirdly, things like-- Usually when you feel sick,
18:39
like eating, you know, the BRAT.
18:41
What is it?
18:41
Bread…
18:43
No, bananas.
18:45
What does BRAT even stand for?
18:46
But, that-- You know what I'm talking about, that diet that
18:49
you give your little kids?
18:50
I
18:50
might have, I might have it wrong, but the, the idea of sort of
18:55
bread and applesauce and bananas and foods like that that make you
19:00
feel better when you're nauseous.
19:02
bread made me feel terrible.
19:04
Heavy starches made me
19:05
Pam Peeke, MD: Rice is something that's supposed to
19:07
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Rice, that's the one.
19:09
Makes me feel very bad because it just kind of sits in your stomach like a rock.
19:13
Pam Peeke, MD: Well, well, but, you know, before you before you, continue,
19:16
I just wanna make sure everyone knows that, one of the, effects of taking
19:22
a GLP, and it's a variable effect, I mean, not everyone has exactly the
19:28
same experience, is that, it slows the movement of food from your stomach,
19:36
you know, into the small intestine.
19:38
So it gives you the feeling of, greater satiety because the food kinda sits there.
19:45
In some people it's quite extreme.
19:47
It sort of, like, sits there for a very long time where, where
19:50
it shouldn't, because now it's breaking down, you got bacteria and
19:53
all kinds of fun things going on.
19:56
But for most people, there's kind of a moderate amount of kind
20:00
of what we call gastroparesis.
20:02
It's just a stomach that is not doing its muscular pushing things
20:08
along, as a normal stomach would.
20:12
So each person on GLP-1 experiences something like this at some degree,
20:19
and then you work around it.
20:20
So what you did, Tara, was you did a ton of workarounds.
20:25
You're like, "Okay, well, we're not doing kale.
20:28
We'll do cooked spinach, you know, that, that, that works."
20:31
And then suddenly…
20:33
One of the things that makes me happy is that protein is your friend
20:38
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: It is such a revelation.
20:40
I mean, I, I've heard lots of people, you know, optimizers
20:43
are talking about protein.
20:45
But when you're on a GLP-1, protein is definitely your friend.
20:49
it's weird, I was never a big protein eater.
20:52
just never really was, but now I am.
20:56
And it's, you
20:56
know, it's, it's lean.
20:57
Pam Peeke, MD: for that
20:58
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Yeah.
20:59
And I've actually started adding some protein, like if I have a smoothie
21:02
or something, I'll add protein to it because it just feels so much better.
21:06
it's amazing how quickly you, you can sort of figure out what just
21:11
makes you feel good on a GLP-1.
21:12
And the thing is I wanna say now before we get too much into this
21:15
is like, I do-- I have had some difficult experiences on this GLP-1,
21:20
but it has been life-changing for me.
21:23
And I would take all of the bad experiences over again
21:26
to feel the way I feel now.
21:27
even though-- I think, you know, I wrote this story-- I've written a couple
21:30
stories about the GLP-1 tax, about the-- You know, the last story I wrote was,
21:37
Pam Peeke, MD: On your
21:38
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: yeah, on my Substack, just about all the
21:41
challenges that we face, a GLP-1.
21:44
But that if you're-- I just think awareness is the answer to all
21:48
things, and if I had been made more aware, I would have understood some
21:51
of what was happening to my body.
21:53
And you do-- You can figure it out.
21:55
So if you're on a GLP-1 and you're feeling terrible, obviously
21:58
communicate with your doctor.
22:00
You know, go to, you know, Reddit and, and see what other people are experiencing.
22:04
It's been a great resource for me.
22:06
But even though it's been really hard, it is the best thing I've ever done.
22:10
Because the thing that I started talking about my, my rheumatoid
22:13
arthritis and my weight, which always felt kind of separate, but
22:19
they actually-- When I started on a GLP-1, the, the benefits of the GLP-1
22:28
for me went beyond losing pounds.
22:30
I lost pain.
22:31
You know, the pain went away.
22:33
And it was just definitely a multiplier for me.
22:36
And so I don't wanna promise that to everyone, but it was my
22:40
experience that I just overall…
22:42
And I think they're still trying to figure out exactly what these drugs do.
22:45
But I, I had such a great improvement in my health.
22:49
I'm very grateful to these drugs, even though it's been very hard
22:52
and I've had a lot of side effects and I've had a lot of struggle.
22:55
But overall-- And what I've written about on my Substack is just that like in--
23:00
you know, there's power in information, and if we just talk about the challenges
23:03
of these drugs and how to navigate them, we would all do a lot better.
23:06
But mostly my doctors are asking me.
23:09
They're not telling me.
23:10
They're saying, "Oh, what about that?
23:13
You know, what foods work and what don't?"
23:15
And I'm just like, "Gosh, could you just do some homework, please?"
23:17
Pam Peeke, MD: all, we're all learning
23:19
together.
23:19
And well, you know, when we come back, I wanna dive a little bit deeper
23:24
into that beautiful piece you wrote, in your Substack, One Day Better,
23:30
about what you call, the GLP tax.
23:33
know, you kind of got me at tax.
23:35
You know, I immediately read, you know, the entire piece, and I, I
23:38
totally get where you're going.
23:40
So when we come back, let's dive into that
24:42
And we're back.
24:44
Okay.
24:44
Now, what really got me going from your One Day Better, piece that
24:50
you wrote was that you were talking about things nobody talks about.
24:55
They didn't tell me about this.
24:57
for instance, the colonoscopy thing.
25:00
Okay?
25:00
Like, whenever you need to have some procedure, and they go, "Well, now I
25:05
don't want you to be eating and do…"
25:07
And you're like, okay, hold on now.
25:11
What are we doing here?"
25:12
So tell us, tell us a little bit about what they don't tell you,
25:16
and that, you know, what you discovered, turns out you're the
25:20
teacher for so many of the providers
25:23
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Okay.
25:23
I got a lot of feedback on that.
25:24
So I-- It's funny, I've had so many experiences on these drugs, I have to sort
25:29
of remember 'cause I'm such a-- I, I feel so much better overall on these drugs,
25:34
but I've had definitely some challenges and some bad times, and I do experience
25:39
some regular, you know, problems by being on them, but I, I continue to take them
25:43
'cause I think they're so beneficial.
25:45
And so the, again, the RA pain has just disappeared, so I'm so grateful.
25:52
I did have a scheduled colonoscopy and followed the prep, did
25:59
everything I was supposed to do, and absolutely nothing was happening.
26:03
And if you understand colonoscopy prep, without being too graphic, you know, it's
26:08
there to cleanse, you know, to clean out your body and to flush everything out so
26:12
that they can go in and examine your colon without seeing floating food particles.
26:16
And, you know, they want a very clean-- your insides to be very clean
26:20
so that they can see abnormalities, you know, and they can take samples
26:24
and, Abnormalties is not even a word.
26:26
Abnormalities.
26:27
Can we
26:27
correct that please?
26:28
So they can see abnormalities.
26:31
Pam Peeke, MD: We're, we're kind of open here on the podcast,
26:33
so if you want to make
26:33
something up I, I'm a firm believer in MSU, make stuff up.
26:37
Okay?
26:38
So
26:38
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: I'm a little embarrassed that I just
26:40
said that, but, you know what?
26:41
I'm just thinking about my own experience and getting a little bit,
26:44
you know, stumbling over my words a little bit be- 'cause it's kind of an
26:46
emotional thing when I think about it.
26:48
but this particular, I went to the doctor 'cause really, I, I've had
26:52
colonoscopies and I understand the prep, and I understood that this prep just was
26:56
not happening, and I took it exactly as instructed went back and the doctor was
27:00
like, "Yeah, this was not as successful."
27:03
And so next time it's gonna be a lot more work.
27:07
I'm gonna have to probably do double the prep to make sure that it works.
27:11
So, like you pay-- There are some challenges with being on this drug for
27:14
sure, but I wouldn't trade it for the world, because, so much of my RA pain
27:20
is gone and, and, I have lost weight.
27:23
I still want to lose more weight and it's definitely slowed down.
27:26
so yeah, there is a sort of catch you pay by being on the drugs and when
27:31
you're, when you're in full, like I can just forget sometimes that I haven't
27:35
eaten and I start to realize I've not eaten because getting a headache
27:42
maybe, or I'm feeling kind of…
27:44
I had anemia.
27:45
I got pretty serious anemia, which I think happens to a fairly high, when I say high
27:49
percentage, it's maybe like 20% or so.
27:51
There's a fairly decent number of people who develop nutritional deficiencies
27:56
because don't have the same desire to eat.
28:02
Pam Peeke, MD: that's a very big problem, one of the things we've
28:05
discovered is that, people are kind of all over the place right now.
28:10
One, some people just continue to eat the same kind of, you know, processed
28:15
foods, whatever, but less of it, so that's not gonna help us, because, you know,
28:21
the quality of the food went to hell.
28:24
the quantity may be down, but, you know, come on, we're
28:26
talking about quality here too.
28:28
So there's a lot of education that has to happen.
28:32
the next thing is vitamin and mineral, deficiencies are very common now, and
28:39
that's why one of the things, you know, I recommend highly, is to make certain
28:44
you're getting at least a multivitamin, and, you know, something that's gender
28:50
and age-specific, depending, et cetera.
28:54
and at the same time, have your vitamin D measured.
28:57
this is a number you should know anyway, and the magic is between 50 and 60.
29:03
Just, just remember those numbers.
29:05
when you're not eating that much, you're also not eating enough protein And
29:11
therefore, one of the things we've noticed is that not with all the GLPs, what we've
29:18
noticed is that if you were to drop, you know, remove excess fat just by, you
29:25
know, going to the gym, working out, doing the eating thing and back and forth, no
29:30
GLP involved, typically about 25% of the total, weight dropped is actually coming
29:39
from lean body mass, which makes sense because, you know, if you've just dropped
29:44
50 pounds, then you don't need the muscle to hoist around an extra 50 pounds.
29:50
I mean, that's just the way it works.
29:52
And, and that's completely normal.
29:54
We've known this for decades in research.
29:56
with the GLPs, that lean body mass, decrease can be upwards of 40% or more.
30:03
And that's worrisome, because then what happens is, especially if you go
30:09
off the GLP and you gain some weight back, I got news for you, the weight
30:15
you're gaining back is not muscle.
30:17
it's mostly fat, which means that even if you went back to the original
30:21
weight, you're actually, as it were, fatter because the percentage of
30:26
fat went up, relatively speaking, because you lost so much, muscle mass.
30:31
So I'm a nutcase about making sure people get enough protein, we'll get into that.
30:38
And at the same time, hello, you know, what kind of exercise
30:42
are we doing to maintain?
30:44
So what are you doing for exercise?
30:47
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: So my main form of exercise is I, I, I move, I move--
30:52
The most amazing thing is just like how my step count has increased as I've
30:56
lost the weight and just my ability…
30:59
You know, my pain has gone from the, the rheumatoid arthritis, and
31:04
I just move a lot more, and I'm just so much more physically active,
31:07
and I have so much more energy.
31:09
And that's just like the beautiful part of my story.
31:12
Like, I have this whole second lease on life that's pain-free mostly 'cause
31:15
the RA is just, that pain is gone.
31:20
the challenge for me is still the…
31:22
You know, we have to do-- really do need to do weight training.
31:27
I, do sort of body specific weight training.
31:29
Like, how do I put it?
31:31
Like, I do lightweight training.
31:33
I'm still building up, but I do think that the…
31:37
It's-- I think before the GLP-1, I had the weight and the pain, and
31:44
now I've dropped some of the weight.
31:46
I still wanna lose more, but I've dropped quite a lot.
31:48
And I have-- The pain is, I would say like 95% gone.
31:54
Like it's incredible,
31:56
Pam Peeke, MD: That's wild
31:57
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: pain.
31:57
And, in fact, my doctor is like, "If I saw you today, I wouldn't
32:02
have diagnosed you with RA."
32:04
He's like, "I know you have it because, you know, you have it."
32:08
and it's funny 'cause sometimes I will…
32:10
Like, if I get like a delay in my prescription…
32:13
It's not funny, but it's just interesting to me that if there's like a delay
32:16
in renewing my prescription, 'cause sometimes that happens with medicine
32:19
and you can't get-- And I'm off, off of it for just a little bit, I start
32:23
to get some of the ankle pain and the bilateral joint pain that I used
32:27
to have, and I feel it coming back.
32:30
so I don't like to go off the drug if I can help it.
32:32
And also it's kinda hard to go back on it.
32:35
I get a lot of side effects, so I try to be very steady.
32:38
I'm on a very low dose of my,
32:40
Pam Peeke, MD: Yeah, that was the other thing I was gonna ask because people
32:44
are playing around with, microdosing they're obviously, we as providers
32:50
are told to start at the lowest dose and then just sort of titrate, kind
32:54
of figure out what's going on, match up the symptoms, see what works best.
32:59
So the very fact that you're on this low dose and still getting
33:02
this wonderful effect, this anti-inflammatory effect in, decreasing
33:08
the pain is, is absolutely superb.
33:10
By the way, more and more, researchers are actually discovering this.
33:15
They're-- You know, GLPs we're just learning all about, and that is the
33:20
GLPs, interact with almost every single tissue in the human body.
33:26
what's really interesting is to see their power in the ability to be able
33:32
to change things like extreme pain and inflammation, and that's been going on.
33:39
I mean, we've seen this, right off the bat in the liver, there are
33:42
all kinds of problems if you're, for instance, obese and you have
33:46
fatty liver, et cetera, et cetera.
33:49
it's a very pro-inflammatory state.
33:51
Guess what happens?
33:53
You know, it begins to reverse very nicely.
33:55
and the same thing, is occurring in the heart, the immune system.
34:00
And so it just goes on and on.
34:03
I'm thrilled to hear that your pain is at ninety-five percent down.
34:08
That is just-- I mean, that-- If I were you, I'd feel the same way.
34:12
It would be worth, you know, some GI distress
34:16
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: 100%.
34:17
If I never lose another pound, I don't care because I feel like this
34:20
has tamped down the pain for me, which has been so life-changing.
34:24
And, but also like some of my inflammatory markers and just
34:26
generally my health looks better.
34:28
just the things that you are worried about, like your blood pressure and, you
34:33
know, just all the markers of good health are all much improved on a GLP-1 for me.
34:38
I have more energy and I have just more optimism.
34:41
And which is in itself like so great.
34:45
I get emotional when I think about it because it's like really
34:47
changed my life in such a good way.
34:49
And I think that there are times where I feel-- I do get severe fatigue
34:53
sometimes and I have to like really push, you know, just to get myself
34:57
some sunlight and get outside and walk.
34:59
And so that's-- There-- It's a challenge being on these drugs, but
35:02
it is such a gift to feel better most of the time and to have more
35:05
energy and to have, you know…
35:07
I, I am still losing weight and I will continue, you know, to
35:12
get to a, a more healthy weight.
35:15
But if I didn't, if I just stayed where I am right now, I
35:18
would still feel so much better.
35:20
you know, I walk my dog, all the time and I get a lot of, you know, I get a lot
35:25
more-- All my, my step counts, everything are just like triple what they were
35:30
Pam Peeke, MD: That, that's actually borne out by research.
35:33
people who have, shed a goodly amount of weight, especially when you get
35:39
into thirty, forty, fifty, sixty plus pounds, you're lighter on your
35:45
feet, you feel better, and you're no longer, feeling as though you've got
35:52
this extra weight burden, you know, when you're trying to walk or, you
35:57
know, doing whatever you're doing.
35:58
you know, there have been all these, and you've probably seen them in many of the
36:02
newspapers that you have populated as an editor, pictures of people at the gym now.
36:08
You know, they never wanted to go to a gym before.
36:10
Now they put their, you know, best foot forward literally, and, suddenly it feels
36:17
okay to do that mentally and physically.
36:21
And I think one of the things that's so important here is to
36:24
really look at the entire picture.
36:27
You know, weight is just one outcome.
36:30
I mean, that's fine.
36:31
And clearly we already know having excess, body fat, is a pro-inflammatory state.
36:39
We already know all this.
36:40
it's really good to be able to make some kind of, you know,
36:45
very positive change there.
36:47
But look at all the other things that take place.
36:49
It's just mind-blowing.
36:51
You know, and many of them are surprised.
36:53
Sleep is better.
36:55
Some people are reversing sleep apnea because they no
36:58
longer have the larger abdomen.
37:01
and the fat around the neck and, that's obstructive, is really an issue.
37:08
and, and they're just astounded.
37:10
They're like, "Whoa, wait a minute.
37:11
I never counted on this."
37:13
'Cause people were just running to the scale, and they were
37:16
just staring at that number.
37:18
And you gotta look at yourself as a totality.
37:21
we're still discovering things every single day in my
37:24
newsfeed as a, as a physician.
37:27
You know, I'm, I'm getting, you know, yet another Medscape, about the new
37:32
things they're learning about what the GLP-1s can actually do, and that
37:38
includes cognitive performance as well.
37:41
It's so fascinating.
37:43
So, you know, you lucked out with the, with the pain.
37:47
And again, I, I just can't even tell you how wonderful that is.
37:51
So you said that you, are now more into protein, okay?
37:57
And w- how did you do that?
37:58
I mean, like, what does that look like for you?
38:03
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: You know, it's just-- it's funny because I
38:05
just-- if you really start thinking about what-- I, I did, I did do some
38:10
research and I learned that a lot of people on GLP-1s do better on protein.
38:13
And I learned sort of through my own diet that sugar makes me feel bad
38:18
generally, and it, it-- there's sort of an aversion therapy here because,
38:24
you know, if you, if you eat something a few times and it doesn't make you
38:27
feel good, you don't want it anymore.
38:29
And, you know, there's a lot of unpleasant side effects that you can experience when
38:34
you don't eat the right thing on a GLP-1 because it slows gastric emptying, it
38:37
just slows everything down and just-- you just get this kind of multiplier effect.
38:41
And the fatigue is real.
38:43
protein is definitely your friend on this drug.
38:46
I would just learn to sort of eat more of it, in different ways.
38:50
Maybe a piece of fish or a piece of chicken.
38:53
Like, volume is always-- you still can't eat like high volume food.
38:57
But, it was-- for me, it was a lot of trial and error.
38:59
But like pure sugar, just not good.
39:02
You don't really want it.
39:04
you have to make yourself stay hydrated.
39:06
That's a little hard sometimes for me.
39:09
I really do lose hunger signals and thirst signals both.
39:13
So, you have to kind of build-- You know, you just have to be more mindful.
39:17
I think mindful eating is a great thing to do anyway, to be very aware of what you're
39:23
eating and how it's making you feel.
39:25
And the GLP-1 drugs really make you mindful because you
39:28
have such an immediate effect.
39:30
And it's been you will experience side effects, but like you're a little
39:34
science experiment and you figure it out.
39:36
And if something doesn't make you feel good, you need to think about it.
39:40
And, you know, I find that lean protein, I feel better.
39:45
I did initially, you know, roughage is a little tough, so you would-- I would
39:49
eat more soups and, cooked vegetables.
39:52
things like rice, they just kind of sit in your stomach.
39:54
It's not, it's not that I never had them.
39:56
It's funny though, I went from like loving sushi to loving sashimi because the…
40:01
I remember being at a delicious restaurant with a friend early on in the j- the
40:05
GLP-1 journey and realizing that the rice was just like I couldn't do it.
40:09
But I loved the sashimi part of it.
40:13
so I was turning my sushi into sashimi at the plate.
40:16
But, you know, you just learn a lot about your body.
40:18
What I like about this whole experience, even though it has been challenging,
40:22
is that it's just made me very in tune with my body and how I'm feeling.
40:26
And I, I think when the food noise goes away, you just get some clarity
40:32
and you get a sense of like, "What is gonna make me feel good today?"
40:37
And you start wanting things that make you feel good.
40:41
So pro- more protein.
40:43
granted like I do…
40:44
I've always loved soups anyway.
40:46
sometimes I'll do like a morning smoothie because that's just easier, you know?
40:50
So maybe it's not as great as just like eating the whole vegetable, but I'm
40:53
still getting a lot of nourishment.
40:55
You think, you think more in terms of nourishment because you don't…
40:58
Food is just not, you know, talking about food noise, it's
41:02
just not calling your name.
41:03
And for somebody who struggled with weight my whole life, like it's so
41:07
great to sit at a table and to see a beautiful spread of food and to have
41:12
the food that nourishes your body and be okay with that you don't need more.
41:17
Like you really feel good and, you know, there's always leftovers on my
41:21
plate and I still don't waste food.
41:24
I still pack it up and put it in the refrigerator.
41:27
but it's just a sense of I'm feeding, I'm nourishing my body in the way
41:32
that it needs to be nourished.
41:34
And it's a very empowering feeling when that happens, when you're
41:38
not having cravings and, you know, something's not calling your name
41:43
and like, you know, you can have a bite of something and enjoy it and
41:47
Pam Peeke, MD: I've been fascinated with, the new research coming
41:52
out on the GLPs and addiction.
41:54
so you know, I wrote The Hunger Fix and, you know, we talked all
41:57
about food addiction and the Yale Food Addiction Scale and all the
42:01
great stuff that's been done by, Ashley Gearhardt and other people.
42:06
so when I heard, you know, it was sort of like by the by, you know, I always
42:12
have problems with drinking way too much.
42:14
Now I don't even want it.
42:16
this is becoming very, very common.
42:20
And this is also true of other addictions, as they begin to accrue this data in
42:26
the addictive sector, which makes me wonder about the effect of the GLPs on
42:34
the reward center in the brain, 'cause that's really where the action's at.
42:38
So that's called the nucleus accumbens.
42:41
And I'm wondering whether or not there's a tamping down there because, some people
42:48
also went so far as to say, "I not only don't get reward from, you know, like
42:53
overeating, gambling, drinking, whatever."
42:58
But some people just lose reward, period.
43:01
They sort of get, a GLP kind of new personality.
43:06
they don't get as much reward out of the joys in life.
43:11
This was an extreme part of this.
43:14
And when I read about that, I was fascinated because obviously there's
43:18
a bell-shaped curve to all of this.
43:20
So you're gonna have outliers who are like, get no joy out of anything.
43:24
some people, you know, maybe the reward center is barely affected.
43:28
But I think most people are falling in the middle, you know.
43:33
And what they're finding is that they're just not getting reward out
43:38
of a lot of the more self-destructive addictive behaviors they had before.
43:43
What do you think?
43:45
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Yeah, I think it definitely is gonna vary by person.
43:48
I experienced a pretty severe effect of losing interest in a lot of things,
43:53
and I realized it when I used to, walk dogs at-- When I lived in DC, I walked
43:59
dogs at an animal shelter, and it really-- My, my dog had passed and I
44:03
wasn't ready, ready to commit to a dog.
44:04
And so I did a lot of volunteer work at the shelter, and I really loved it.
44:08
It was my happy place.
44:10
And I-- and it was kind of hard to get to.
44:12
It was a little bit far from my house, so it was a lot of effort to get there.
44:15
And I got there one day, and I just got there and I was like,
44:19
"Ugh, I don't wanna be here.
44:21
What's wrong?"
44:22
And I literally turned around and I went home.
44:24
And I remember thinking, "Okay, what just happened?"
44:27
And I, I remember calling a friend and saying, "Okay, so the
44:31
GLP-1s have stolen my appetite and they've also stolen my joy.
44:34
what is happening?"
44:35
And I didn't have this sort of langua-- I didn't understand it enough to
44:39
know, and I was a little worried.
44:40
but it did, it, definitely can happen.
44:43
Sometimes it can happen for a day.
44:45
It used to happen a little longer in the beginning.
44:48
but I just recognize it and I sort of lean into self-care and I
44:51
just think, you know, I'm having a, a side effect, this will pass.
44:55
And, you know, obviously I went back to the shelter.
44:58
I ended up with the love of my life, a new dog named Sugar.
45:02
so I think that, It, definitely, it definitely does happen, but
45:08
for me it passed.
45:09
For me it's a lot better now.
45:11
If you just stick with it and like power through it,
45:14
I still have bad side effect days sometimes, but you know what?
45:17
I just lean into self-care on those days, which is something I should've been doing.
45:20
I think a lot of times when we develop weight issues, it's because we're not
45:24
leaning enough into self-care, and we're not taking the time we need to
45:27
like take a break from work and to manage our stress and to go take a walk.
45:32
And now, especially with my dog, now I like really have leaned into walks.
45:36
And even on bad days, you know, a dog doesn't let you, skip a walk.
45:40
So I would just say that this is-- it's your body telling you in a very amplified
45:44
way that you need to do more self-care.
45:46
So on days when I don't feel bad, when I don't feel well, when I feel bad on a
45:49
GLP-1, I'm just really taking that as a signal to just take care of myself, and
45:55
that it's okay to like take a little time off work to take a walk, to take a nap.
46:00
I've always felt guilty taking naps.
46:02
I've always been like this very hard worker.
46:04
Now I'm like, you know what?
46:04
If my body needs to rest, I need to rest.
46:06
And, so I would say it's sort of a call.
46:09
It's a call.
46:10
When you're on these drugs, they are-- you are getting amplified
46:14
signals and, and muted signals, and everything is a little bit awry.
46:17
But like if you listen to it and you just really…
46:21
I mean, I would just say it's an opportunity to lean into self-care.
46:24
If you're fatigued, as I sometimes am, I rest.
46:28
If I'm feeling queasy, I, you know, do things that are good for me and
46:32
I, you know, maybe take a walk and get some fresh air, walk my dog.
46:35
So I think it's just sort of an opportunity to be
46:37
very tuned into your body.
46:39
And I think that has been the opportunity of the GLP-1 that I don't
46:42
hear enough people talking about.
46:43
Because yes, you have side effects, but those side effects are signals, you know?
46:48
And for me, it's like, okay, I'm having a side effect.
46:51
Maybe I didn't eat enough protein.
46:53
Maybe I'm feeling really tired because I forgot to eat.
46:56
You know, sometimes I set alarms to just check in with myself now.
46:59
So I think it can be a really positive thing to be more tuned into your
47:04
body and to take care of yourself.
47:05
Like, I think that's like the gift of the GLP-1.
47:07
So yes, you have side effects.
47:09
Yes, you have challenges, but it is this kind of very personal call to
47:12
action to just like to, to check in with yourself in a mindful way and
47:18
do things that make you feel better.
47:21
And a lot of times we're overweight because we haven't always done
47:23
things that make us feel better.
47:25
We've maybe medica- self-medicated with food or we've, you know, neglected
47:29
exercise because we've gotten too busy in life or had too much stress, and
47:32
we haven't sort of listened enough.
47:35
And so now I think with-- when you're on a GLP-1, you really have
47:38
to take care of yourself, and you have to put your health first.
47:42
And I really would just…
47:43
anybody who's starting it There will be challenges for sure, but for
47:48
me the payoff has been tremendous in terms of just my ability to
47:53
feel, more in control of my health.
47:57
And I think that's been the big gift
48:00
Pam Peeke, MD: I, I just, okay, that's just the best summary I've
48:05
heard so far of what the hell is going on on a very personal basis.
48:11
Now, as a little side, sidebar here, let me go out on a limb
48:15
and I'm gonna say something.
48:18
Working with addicts for years, one of the things I've found was that
48:22
when they first come off whatever it is, the combinations thereof, et
48:27
cetera, they have literally no joy.
48:31
There's no, there's no sense of joy.
48:33
They're in rehab.
48:35
They first come off the stuff.
48:37
Their nucleus accumbens, their reward center, has been hammered, beaten
48:40
up, you know, kicked to the curb.
48:43
It's just, you know, it's not good, right?
48:46
Then the most amazing thing happens.
48:50
One of the things I would do is I would take them out and I would throw
48:54
balls with them, Frisbees, anything.
48:57
I'd get them outside into nature and moving around in their bodies.
49:02
I'd have them look at a sunset.
49:03
In the beginning of rehab, the sunset was like, "Yeah, wha-whatever."
49:08
You know, in a month it was like, "My God, look at the orange."
49:13
And what happens, I'm just gonna throw it out there.
49:17
Now, we're gonna mark this moment because I may be right.
49:20
All right?
49:21
I think researchers are gonna find that the nucleus accumbens adapts to the
49:26
GLPs, and that eventually what happens is you're able to get the more natural
49:35
joy, out of life, not the, you know, the stuff from the addictive s- substance.
49:43
And that, there is like a healing process there.
49:47
I don't think it's static.
49:49
I think y- this is something they have to measure over time.
49:53
I'm just throwing it out there, just saying, just based upon a lot
49:58
of years of working in the field.
50:00
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: It makes sense to me and my experience was definitely
50:02
that, that the things that, you know, I definitely had some, some down
50:06
periods, but overall I would say that, I, I had to sometimes force myself.
50:13
That's what's great about having a dog.
50:14
They just drag you outside whether you feel like it or not, and
50:17
fresh air and just walking and feeling alive are all good things.
50:20
And, and I-- there's just a virtuous cycle that happens if you can power
50:25
through the side effects and the hard times that I do think that, you know,
50:30
I just know like in terms of measurable things, my step counts are higher, I'm
50:35
more active, I'm just more engaged in so many ways, and, I have more energy.
50:41
And I also lean into self-care more than I used to.
50:43
I used to fight fatigue and now I'm like, I'm tired, taking a nap
50:48
Pam Peeke, MD: I know.
50:48
I know.
50:49
And there you are.
50:50
So I want everyone to read this fabulous piece that, Tara Parker-Pope wrote in
50:58
her Substack newsletter, One Day Better.
51:02
It's the one that blew my mind, and gave me this incredible opportunity
51:06
to reconnect again, with you, Tara.
51:09
now seeing where you are, and communicating with your large
51:14
audience out there on Substack, as you do so beautifully.
51:20
So you're gifting people with what you've done for years with
51:24
The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, The Washington Post.
51:27
Dear God, you know, you were, you know, a Pulitzer Prize as
51:32
part of The New York Times team recognized for c- coverage of COVID.
51:38
I mean, hello, we're here with royalty and, you know, including an Emmy
51:42
Award for The Well video series.
51:46
crazy, stuff.
51:47
And you're taking all that experience and professional work and expertise,
51:52
and now you get to apply it to yourself as you go on this fairly
51:57
amazing journey, to say the least.
51:59
So Tara, I can't thank you enough for being on the HER Podcast.
52:06
I mean, this has just been crazy good.
52:10
and it gives everyone a little peek into the real world, the authentic
52:18
world of what it's like to experience the GLPs, because guess what?
52:24
We're all learning about this together.
52:26
We really are.
52:28
Providers, patients, family members, everyone.
52:33
You know, we're all in on this one way or the other.
52:37
So Tara, I can't thank you enough for being on the HER Podcast to
52:41
share from your One Day Better Substack newsletter you really
52:47
let it all hang out so beautifully
52:50
Tara Parker-Pope, MPH: Well, I'm grateful to you.
52:51
I've known you for many years, and I think you're very motivating and, you've been
52:55
very supportive of me over the years.
52:58
And I-- it's just so great to reconnect on this issue.
53:01
And I do think that, you know, my message is just for people to like-- for me, it
53:05
has been finding community and finding other people's stories and understanding
53:08
that I'm not alone in this journey, and that ultimately, you know, there are
53:12
answers out there and you can-- any, any of the side effects, any of the
53:15
hard times, you can get through them.
53:17
But I think that, you know, ultimately everything you've been talking
53:20
about over the years is like the solution to all things, right?
53:23
You know, staying active and moving more, all of these things, any
53:25
challenge that you have on a GLP-1 are largely solved, when you just get
53:30
yourself outside, you get the fresh air, you get some exercise, you walk
53:33
your dog, and you can power through a lot of the challenges of these drugs.
53:36
And they are challenging.
53:37
They're not a shortcut.
53:38
I don't want anybody to think that it's cheating.
53:40
It's a lot of work, but I'm so grateful to science, and I'm grateful to people like
53:43
you that have, you know, helped us figure out how to, you know, get through this
53:48
and to just be healthier overall, and that it's not really about numbers on a scale
53:52
as much as it's about just like, you know, moving and staying active and embracing
53:58
Pam Peeke, MD: Well, Tara, you-- whatever you d- you have got to
54:01
keep writing this beautiful stuff because, I mean, I hang on every word.
54:06
I love what you write.
54:07
And of course, you're an expert journalist, award-winning journalist.
54:12
So you better keep gifting us with some more of this.
54:15
I mean, bring it on.
54:16
Everyone join her Substack newsletter, One Day Better.
54:21
Ah.
54:21
Thank you so much.
54:22
And I also wanna thank my sponsor, SkinSafe.
54:25
This is a beautiful app.
54:27
Run on over to SkinSafe Products, that was put together with the
54:32
Mayo Clinic to be able to help you do the one thing I always need.
54:36
It's like I'm trying to get goos and gobs and things for my skin.
54:41
I have no idea what the heck I'm doing.
54:43
And then I just run on over to SkinSafe, and I realize
54:47
this app is gonna educate me.
54:49
So run on over to skinsafeproducts.com.
54:53
And now take a moment to leave us a review because, quite frankly, the entire team
54:57
just sits around waiting to hear from you.
54:59
I mean, it's all about feedback after, after all.
55:03
And this has been a production of Podcast Health.
55:06
And I just wanna leave you with a little something as I always do.
55:10
All right.
55:11
You ready?
55:12
"We don't receive wisdom.
55:15
We must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one
55:21
can take for us or spare us."
55:25
That was Marcel Proust.
55:27
And of course, this is what Tara has been all about.
55:32
All right, everyone, get on out there.
55:33
Seize the day, a little carpe diem.
55:36
Thanks for listening