Latest / Reframe First / Jeremy Ostermiller, Co-founder of Death Before Decaf | The Hardest Dollar Is the First Dollar

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Jeremy Ostermiller, Co-founder of Death Before Decaf | The Hardest Dollar Is the First Dollar · Reframe First

• Oleksij Rak: And hey guys, welcome to another episode of Reframe First. I'm Alexi and let me welcome our today's guest, Jeremy Oster Miller's. Jeremy's eight times founder and has built eight eight successful businesses and that that got like hundreds of millions of cumulative revenue. So hi Jeremy, it's great having you here. jeremy ostermiller: Thank you for having me. Excited for our conversation today. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, ox also looking forward to that. So from what I learned, like you started in the age of fifteen and since then you've built been constantly building something and like and you've built a couple of great businesses and right now working call on on three of them in parallel. So could could you tell us about a bit a bit about your story and basically how are you keeping up with all of that? jeremy ostermiller: Sure, so I'm a you know A-time founder, as you mentioned, of 40,000 hours as an entrepreneur. Just past 20 years building companies. And you know, from a very young age, I had this itch to be an entrepreneur. I really feel like being an entrepreneur is something you're born with. You either find it out early or find it out late, right? So I found it out very early. And you know, going through middle school and high school and college was just very challenging for me. I I'm undiagnosed ADD, but just you know, the regular curriculum didn't speak to me. so Oleksij Rak: Mm-hmm. jeremy ostermiller: I just knew from from probably thirteen, fourteen that I wanted to be an entrepreneur and and that's what I've been doing ever since then and and you Oleksij Rak: You want to represent the thing? jeremy ostermiller: know, haven't you know, haven't felt like I've worked a day since I've Learn that that's my calling. Oleksij Rak: So so w what what what's your path through through your life? Like what have you built and how it started and from what I learned you you made some great exit with Altitude Digital. So so so how did it work for you? Forty thousand hours you know that's a lot. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, yeah. I so I started out as a concert promoter. I started out throwing events in Colorado and kind of the the areas around Colorado, around the West. And you know, so work primarily with the hip hop world. So think like Snoop Dogg, Wiz Khalifa, Bone Dogs in Harmony, Coolio, run DMC, those type of groups. And you know, with a concert, there's a beginning, a middle, and an end. So each concert is like is is its own business, right? The cool thing about doing a concert is you find out pretty quick if you're successful. Right. Whereas Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: like running most companies, it's eight, nine, ten years before you know like the scorecard. so after throwing 400 of those concerts, I got to the age of 29 and I was burnt out. know I was out a lot late and I knew I needed to find something else. And my my day job while I was doing the concerts was working at the Denver Post and Media News Group in Colorado. And so I had an ad background Oleksij Rak: That's right. jeremy ostermiller: and I knew that video was the next, right? The internet started as a newspaper and then moved into more of like a TV experience. And so I started one of the first video ad exchanges. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: Called Al Suit Digital. And we went from zero in revenue to over a quarter billion in lifetime revenue over the eight-year span that I ran the. Oleksij Rak: Well, that that's a lot. jeremy ostermiller: It was a wild ride, man. Very very crazy. Oleksij Rak: And nowadays you're also working with Citizen In Interactive and it's also about media, right? So it's a cloud platform for hotel and GPS, GPS cars, GPS screens and for for hotel TV systems. So w what what is a company and what is a business about? jeremy ostermiller: Sure, so you know, I ran out to digital for eight years. We ended up selling that business to private equity. And then a couple weeks later I started Edison Interactive with an old friend of mine and the goal was to take screens that are out of home and make them suck Oleksij Rak: Mm-hmm. jeremy ostermiller: less. Right. So think screens in airplanes, screens in vehicles, screens in hotel rooms. and so the best way to think about Edison Interactive is like a a Roku type solution that is interchangeable. Right? So a hotel could say, I want live TV and I want Netflix and Hulu and I want food and beverage. a golf course could say, you know, I need dynamic yardage and I need, you know, the PGA to be f you know fed in directly. And so we built this really cool inter, you know, interchangeable. content management system to allow for really interactive screens to play all over the all over the world. Oleksij Rak: Okay, and w wha why did you leave the executive role there? And because from what it's from what I learned you are in in the board of directors, but you are not really in operations anymore. And you switched to some DTC brands. What made you what was the pivotal change in your life that made you do that? jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think, you know, like looking back, I I I'm a startup guy. I love the beginnings of a company where every day is different and it's moving and shaking. As a company gets to the seventh, eighth, ninth year, you start to really grow up, right? There's a lot of procedures and policies and HR and it's just it gets to that point where I'm just not that interested anymore. And it's not really my skill set at that point. so I'm kind of a zero to eight year type of guy. And after eight years, you know, that's really when I think like most companies should bring in a CEO that's done that before, that's built, you know, more enterprise companies that loves the the structure and policies and procedures and all the minutia running a more mature business. Oleksij Rak: Okay, awesome. Yeah, I didn't do that with my company. So and jeremy ostermiller: You know, you know it's like Oleksij Rak: Yeah, I'm still there. jeremy ostermiller: Mm-hmm. Oleksij Rak: Probably that's a wise move. So so wha what you're busy with nowadays. So th there are two DTC brands and what could could you tell a bit about what you're busy with? jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, so I started a ready to drink coffee company called Death Before Decaf. I'm drinking one right now. started out with two of two of my old friends, Frank and Johnny. And the goal was to build a ready to drink coffee company that that tasted good, that was clean, and you know, we pride ourselves in putting ingredients in our drinks that are real. so today you can find us at seven eleven. That's one of our largest retailers. And we're Oleksij Rak: Mm-hmm. jeremy ostermiller: getting ready to scale this thing nationwide. And it's you know completely different than what I've done before. you know, I think as entrepreneurs, we we we we're kinda like actors where we get typecasted, right? Like, he's a tech guy, you know, like and when I started a coffee company and then I also own a clothing company, Steeltown Garage, you know, I got a lot of flack of like, what do you know about coffee? What do you know about convenience stores? What do you know about clothing and my answer was you know all businesses have the same problem right it's people product process and you know I've I I really took this challenge to really show myself but also to show all the haters out there that you know I'm not one thing that I I'm very dynamic and I can be successful in anywhere you put me. Oleksij Rak: Awesome. And what what does what does it take to take this to bring these products to market? Because we're like coffee drinks, there's like a lot of drinks out there, right? How how jeremy ostermiller: Sure. Oleksij Rak: how how how is a drink different and what does it take to to take it to to bring it to market and to make it successful actually. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, that's a good question. You know, when I launched this business with two of my friendnies friends when we launched Death Before Decaf, we didn't know anything. None of us were ever in the beverage industry, never spent one day. So we learned everything, you know, the hard way, right? But you know, the first thing is you gotta build a good product, right? So we went and found the best beans that we could get our hands on. and we found a great roastery that helped us bring the best beans to market. You know, then we needed to find a can, right? We're in Colorado, that's where where ball is based. So we got, you know, the ball cans. but from there, you know, you gotta find the brewer, you gotta find the labels, you have to, you know, get a scientist on board, you gotta get labs to test the product. so after, you know, quite a bit of trials Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: and tribulations, we came out with our first drink, nitro cold brew. And that nitro cold brew has 359 milligrams of caffeine. So it is the strongest drink that you can buy at 7-Eleven, caffeine-wise, but it's clean. There's three ingredients: it's water, liquid nitrogen, and coffee. And so that drink just kind of right off the get-go, like got attention, right? Our our branding. This is our lemonade cold brew. I mean, look at this branding, right? It's loud, it's different. And in the coffee space it's very feminine right now. It's very like yoga and meditation and flowers and doilies. And we wanted to go the opposite way, right? I feel like coffee's gotten real soft. It's gotten pretty darn boring. And the drinks that you can buy at convenience stores and grocery stores, like they're basically, in my opinion, like like lab projects. Like you read the label and you're like, what in the heck is in this drink? It's like disgusting, you know. So that you know, we build it out of a need and and a desire and and it's it's a really fun business to run. Oleksij Rak: But from from what you mentioned, your first first attempt, first product was a success already. How how did it happen? jeremy ostermiller: So yeah Oleksij Rak: Did you find you know, did you find the right niche? Like you mentioned the position, like this yoga jeremy ostermiller: Yeah. Oleksij Rak: and and schools, it's it's a bit the opposite, you know. But but but still jeremy ostermiller: Well yeah, sure. So the founding story, right, is so we we spent a couple months trying to get our MVP, which is was our nitrocoal group. so we got the product on July third of last year. And on July fourth I throw kind of a legendary fourth of July party at my house. It's we have a house on the lake with boats and all the fun stuff and I had a bunch of DJs come out and we launched Death before Decaf at my Fourth of July party. You know, we bought a ski gondola and had the logo on it. We had a tent, you know, like we made it look real real. We made espresso martinis with it. And at the party, I had a friend bring a friend of a friend who happens to be the CFO of the largest or the second largest Seven Alliance 7 Eleven franchise group in the world. they're called K and G Petroleum. And so when he saw the drink, he saw the events, he got to try it, and he's like, I don't even care what's in this can, I know it's gonna be successful. And so on day one, we got our break, right? three weeks later, we're in three 7-Elevens, and and then you know, 7-Eleven that kind of puts you through the ringer, right? Started with three, went to six, went to 20. Went to forty, went to eighty, went to one hundred and twenty, right? And now we're working on scaling this thing nationwide and seven eleven's been an amazing partner, but really got that break on day one. Oleksij Rak: So so so when did the quality product turn in? Because like it sounds like it was great positioning, so it's nice nice branding and positioning, and then it was great networking because you got the right guide at the right spot who who jeremy ostermiller: sorry. Oleksij Rak: trusted in the product, but at some at some certain product point the the product itself should have kicked in, otherwise people wouldn't drink it. Right. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, you know, starting with a nitro cold brew, there's three ingredients, right? You can't you can't hide. And we picked the best beans we could get our hands on, right? And so that product, if you pick the best beans and we use Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: filtered water and we had great branding, like it wasn't that complicated of a drink to start with. and then the caffeine levels just bring attention, right? Good, bad, or ugly, you're like, wow, you know, like 400 milligrams is w the your caffeine allotment in a day, according to the FDA. And we've got 359. So we were kind of pushing the envelope from day one. but we followed it up with our vanilla latte. It's an oat milk vanilla latte, which is you know the most popular drink at coffee stores. so that that drink it's got a lot of caffeine as well. That drink is at 243 milligrams of caffeine. And that's been our fan favorite. And then we launched our lemonade cold brew. So it's fifty percent cold brew, fifty percent lemonade. So think like an Arnold Palmer, like a tea lemonade. But we put coffee in it, and it is the most refreshing, amazing summer drink. And so we're pushing the envelope. You know, we're we're gonna do the fan favorites, but we're also gonna do some stuff that will you'll be like, What? Like coffee and lemonade, you know, we have one coming out that's like black cherry and cold brew. So it tastes kinda like a Dr. Pepper. so we're we're we're having some fun with it and we're gonna do do it different. Do it our way. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, and the Android Bull also g has caffeine inside, so it's it's it's jeremy ostermiller: Yeah. Oleksij Rak: popular. Okay, the your other brand, Stilltown Garage. It it sounds quite similar. It's motto inspired e-commerce. It's it's it's a different niche, but you know, the position position inquires and branding quiz, it sounds a bit similar. Is it because of your personality or is it what's the reason for that? jeremy ostermiller: So I bought Steeltown Garage. I bought the company. It was based out of Canada. And when I left Edison Interactive, I was like, I wanna I wanna do something else. I wanna do something way different. But I don't want to start from zero. Right? Starting from zero is really, really painful. So I went on Flippa. It's kind of like the eBay for buying companies. And I saw this you know, clothing commerce brand for sale. And it's a Moto inspired clothing company. And I don't even ride motorcycles, but like the the branding and like the graphics and everything, it just spoke to me. I don't know. You know, when you know, you know. And so I ended up buying the company, and my wife was like, What you're buying a Moto Inspired Clothing Company from Canada? And when I bought the the the company, I inherited, you know, hundreds and hundreds of designs. And Steeltown Garage had a e had a physical location in Canada. It was closed down before I bought the company. But when it was in operation, they had a it was coffee and motorcycles. And the coffee had the death before decaf logo on the cup. Right? It wasn't called death before decaf, but the the logo we use today was on the cup. And so when I bought it, I was like, I gotta do something with this logo. You know, and at that time, you know, Liquid Death was one of those brands that I really respect. And I was like, you know, I wanna really kind of run back this death, you liquid death strategy but for coffee. Right? Liquid death just, you know, came into water and really shook up the water industry. And we wanted to do the same thing and we're doing that in the coffee space. Look different, act different, you know, be loud, be a little more masculine. And and that's what we're focused on and that's what we're working on. Oleksij Rak: Awesome. So w w what is similar between these brands? Both of them are d D T C brands. Both of them are kind of masculine, as you mentioned. And and because of that positioning you made them successful. But what is similar? What is similar operational wise operations wise? jeremy ostermiller: Well they're b we you we b they're both running on Shopify websites. So for e-commerce we're using Shopify. We're using a lot of the same plugins. we've got, you know, the Clavio setup and QuickBooks. So back end wise, it's very similar. we sell each other's products on our respective websites. So you can buy Steeltown clothes on Death Before Decaf and and vice versa. On Steeltown you can buy the coffee products that we sell. But outside of just you know backend functionality, the the branding, the message, the authenticity is it's very representative of me, myself, and my co-founders. And it's it's really like embodies like how we live life, right? We we we call it caffeine for the wild, and it's really about you know, working hard, playing hard, living to the extreme, you know, like No prisoners, right? And so that messaging and that authenticity is I think extremely important in the day of in day and age of AI. I think that's the first part is you have to be authentic. And the second is you gotta build a community. And you know, as a concert promoter for for over four hundred concerts I have a a amazing community of people. And so, you know, it turns out when you have an authentic brand with a great community, things move pretty quick. And you know, we're we're doing seven figures on both businesses. And you know, I'm only a about a year in on both of the companies that you mentioned. Oleksij Rak: that's that's that's awesome. And how do you achieve that? How how do you how do you build this kind of community and how do you achieve this kind of pace with with the business development? jeremy ostermiller: Sure. So with Death Before Decaf, you know, I mentioned like day one was a a pool or a beach pool party at my house. And so we started out on on a really good trajectory, but I know I knew we had to get louder. And you know, I think every brand should have kind of a brand voice and I always think of it as a celebrity. So if you're a brand, who's the celebrity voice that one you would like to go for, but two kind of embodies the brand. And for me with Death Before Dcaf, it was Shaquille O'Neal. Shaquille O'Neal is bigger than life, you know, he's 7'2, 300 some pounds, and just so dominant in everything he does. And so for our launch party in December, right, we we did our soft launch in July. And in December, I booked Shaquille O'Neal, aka DJ Diesel. We rented a venue called Mission Ballroom in Denver, Colorado. It holds about 4,500 people. And we launched Wish Aquil O'Neal. we invited the whole city, right? We sold about half the tickets and gave half of them away. So we gave over two thousand tickets away. And you know, like that really solidified that we're real, that we're not going anywhere, that we have connections, and you know, ever since that day, things have gone really up and to the right and It was it was a fun way to get the the company moving. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah. That's my jeremy ostermiller: I don't know. Oleksij Rak: real but that that's my childhood hero. yeah. You mentioned AI. What what changed with you mentioned the age of AI? What what changed with with how you go to market with in in in the age of AI. What what's different nowadays? jeremy ostermiller: I'd say number one, it's never been easier to start a company. Right? So Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: you know, there's there's things that I can do now that I I would have dreamt of 20 years ago. So that's number one. number two is because it's easier to start a company, it's becoming a lot more competitive, right? you're based Oleksij Rak: That's crowded, yeah. jeremy ostermiller: you know, we're having a conversation, you're in Ukraine, I'm in you know, San Diego, California right now. so the competition is fierce, it's fiercer than ever. Now Oleksij Rak: Yep. jeremy ostermiller: You know, I've built technology companies for twenty years and I've spent tens of millions of dollars on engineers. And you know, now the things we can do, I look back and I just like kick myself. I'm like, my goodness, like I could have been so much more successful with these tools. I could have spent a quarter of the money. I could have like been able to check the work of, you know, the engineers that I had on my team. And you know, if you're running a tech company, like use these tools, like It every day it blows me away at what we can do. But keep Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: in mind the rest of the world has these tools now, right? And so the the playing field is extremely competitive. And I feel like it's the haves and have nots right now. You either know AI and it's like native to what you're doing, or you're you're you're way behind, right? I don't think there's anyone in the middle, right? Oleksij Rak: Yeah. You're getting a lot of advantage with these tools and but everybody's getting that advantage. So and it's easier use them or you just fall behind. And jeremy ostermiller: Yeah. Well and I'll say like if you have a propensity of cheating or taking shortcuts, AI can be pretty dangerous for you, right? 'Cause it's gonna help you cheat and take shortcuts even more. If that's not your MO, like you like to really do things, you take pride in doing those things, and you just wanna use the tools that are out there, then it I really think AI is for you. And so, you know, it's checks and balances, technology is not perfect. And be careful with it, right? I think us that are savvy can detect it right away, right? There's so many kind of telltale signs. The technology out there can detect it through emails and so use it, but use it with caution. I think you know, in this day and age, you know, the old school's kind of coming back, right? Like right now, the 80s are real big in the US, like that culture's coming back because like you know, we're we're more connected than ever. But less connected than ever. Right? If that makes sense. Right. And so the old school way of picking up the phone and stopping over the office and having coffee together is more important than it's ever been, right? Because now we have these tools that that are inundating us with emails and texts and it's just noise everywhere you turn. Instagram is fluttered with it. It is so noisy out there. Oleksij Rak: It's it's so it's getting so easy to produce that noise, you know. So and and yeah, jeremy ostermiller: Too easy. Yeah. Way too. Oleksij Rak: and everybody's trying to do that. If you were to build some software or technology product nowadays, like you know if it's f few years later you're done with your current two two businesses and decide to move on, what would you do? Where would you look? jeremy ostermiller: Well, you know, it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You know, right now I feel like there are so many arbitrage opportunities with AI. There's a lot Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: of quick, easy money, right? These machines are a lot smarter than the machines that are out there, right? So there's a lot of manipulating you can do, right? So if you're into arbitraging, it's the time. If you want to build a long term business, then it goes back to the fundamentals, like anything, right? I think it's like You gotta build a good product, number one. You have to get the best people on your team and you need to have processes that hold up. You know, you have to have this foundation that's solid from day one so that as you scale, your foundation won't break. you know, if I was to kind of go back in the technology space, which I I am in some ways with, you know, doing e com like for me I I I just love e commerce right now. Like I would recommend e-commerce to anyone that's like trying to figure it out because it's like you you're building some technology, but a lot of it's already there. Right. And so, you know, starting from zero is extremely painful. If you can find platforms out Oleksij Rak: ja jeremy ostermiller: there that get you to market faster, I'd highly recommend it. Right. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: Use third parties until you have enough money and then maybe you can start peeling some pieces back and building yourself. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, yeah. I hear you because with in the current age with with e-commerce, it's quite easy to build any kind of anything. So it's only in the end, it's a question of great product and great process around it. So and if you can build that, you know, all all the tools are out there. So you mentioned Shopify, but besides Shopify, you know, all all the technology tools are out there, so it's quite easy. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, you know, I have a lot of people that come to me and say, Hey, I wanna launch this platform and the first thing I ask them is is why do you wanna launch your own platform? Like, does the world need another platform? Let's just be honest. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: Like does the world need another login? And so I always push people to use something third party that's established, right? Oleksij Rak: Spify stripe, whatever, you know, so all these puzzles. jeremy ostermiller: Whatever it is, whatever industry and you know, I I I tell people that the hardest dollar is the first dollar. Yeah. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: Second hardest dollar is the getting to a million and then third to me getting to ten. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, the the hard the hardest million million is the first million. jeremy ostermiller: But that first dollar, you'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs never get there. Because they're Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: so caught up in I gotta build this pro this platform, it's gotta be perfect, and you know, and then by the time they get it launched, like the market's moved. Right? Oleksij Rak: When when is the when is the right time to to lunch? Because you're mentioning like don't be over cautious but still you need to be a bit cautious. So what where is when is the right time to lunch in jeremy ostermiller: Well, my suggestion is to launch with a client. Right. And so with Edison Interactive, whenever we would launch new technology, we would only do it if we had a client on board. So for instance, we launched in room entertainment platforms. So think screens inside the hotel room, watching live TV, watching movies, ordering food. And we launched that with Caesars Entertainment Group, right? The largest entertainment platform. Company in the world, 55 hotels. But we started from ground zero and we built it with them. We built it with their expertise. We had all of their, you know, their marketing, their ops, their sales, like everyone that knew the business giving us the input. And what I see happen a lot is, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs go out there and build what they think the market needs versus having a client that teaches you the market and you build for that client. And you know, maybe you do it for free, maybe you do it for half off, maybe you do some interesting payment plan. But if you can get a client to show you what the market needs, then odds are there's other clients in that same vertical that need the same thing. And so that's that's how I've always built technology and it's been very successful for me in that in that room. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, that sounds like you you need to first validate if you c if if you can generate leads there before you build any. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, and you know, add value. If you went to a prospective client and said, Hey, I you know, do you have any pain points that I can help solve? And I'm like, Yeah, you know, like my accounting system doesn't work for my business. Well, what if I built it for you and I didn't charge you and but let me use it as a testimonial and put it on my website and odds are they're gonna say, Yeah, right? Like free work and you're gonna listen to what I need, not just like stuff something down my throat. and You'd be surprised how open companies are if you're willing to take on that that risk. Oleksij Rak: Awesome. Awesome. coming back to the trends. So you mentioned the interesting trends of return to eighties and direct communication. Bes and and another big one we discussed is is AI itself. So what other big trends do you see nowadays? What what's happening around? 'Cause it it's jeremy ostermiller: man. Big trick. Oleksij Rak: it's rapid nowadays and it's dynamic, so what do you see? Like especially since you've built a couple of companies, successful ones. jeremy ostermiller: So trends just in terms of like launching a business or like worldwide trends or w maybe do what kind of things are you thinking? Oleksij Rak: It's more maybe not maybe not geopolitical at all. But rather. What's happening in the business world? What what trends are out there? jeremy ostermiller: Well, I would say first off, it's it's being turned upside down, right? Everything that you used Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: to do and used to think is now kind of on its head, right? And so innovation has never moved this fast. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: change has never happened this fast. And so we're in this age and time of exponential growth. And you know, the the the the time and days of growing six, seven percent and staying steady, I feel like you're you're either gonna be scaling or you're gonna be dying. Right. And you know, in terms of capital, you know, having an AI first business is is kind of what you need to have today if you wanna get capital. You have to have this unbelievable story, you have to be really native with AI. And then if you want to sell, it's the same kind of story. When I was looking to sell Edison Interactive before I left, I was running into to roadblocks because you know, we had a amazing business and great clients, but we weren't like an AI first business, right? Because we started eight years ago. And if you know you're trying to sell to Google or Nokia or you know, Verizon, like they're so laser focused right Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: now on it. So yeah, I would say, you know, the only constant right now is change. And you gotta be, you know, thinking five steps ahead. Right. I I always just tell people that you need to be looking five years out. Right. So if you're looking to start a business, don't look at what's hot right now. If you start with what's hot right now, you're gonna miss the boat, right? And so you gotta look at what's coming, right? And for me, when I started Alstreet Digital, the the internet was a a newspaper, but I knew it was gonna go into a video experience, right? So I started working in video while everyone was focused on display. Once we got successful at video, a lot of companies would stop there. But I was like, you know, next is mobile. We have to be working on mobile, and we got ahead of mobile. And then once we got ahead of mobile, then I was like, we have to focus on connected TV. Right. And so that's that's how my mind works, but it's exhausting, right? Especially for your team, right? Because as soon as you get good at something, you're like, keep doing that, but here's the next thing we got to be working on. Oleksij Rak: What what what do you think is the next big thing? Because AI is too broad, like what what's next? jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, yeah, I I look at AI as the new internet. You know, I think it's got a you know a a catchy name, but I look at it as the new internet, call it version four of the internet. you know what what is next? I I think anything in the health space is really interesting right now, like longevity. So anything that's gonna make you live longer, anything that's gonna make you happier, right? I think the the world's depressed right now. So happiness Health, longevity. And then I think the going back to the basics, you know, we're we're building coffee and cans done the right way. And you'd be surprised how many industries and how many businesses have done everything possible to make the most amount of profit, sacrificing quality, sacrificing everyone's health. And so whatever niche you're in, you know, the big guys are probably doing it the wrong way. Right. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: They maybe started out the right way, but if you look at what they're doing today, they've probably lost their way. And so get back to the basics. Do it the right way. You know? Do it the way that, you know, your mom would be proud of, right? You're building something that Oleksij Rak: Yeah. jeremy ostermiller: you would give your mom when your mom would say, you know, you did it right. And you can sleep at night that way. Oleksij Rak: Yeah, do it for purpose, not for money, right? The money will come. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, don't do it for the money. Absolutely not. Do it because you love it. And, you know, it's your passion. Oleksij Rak: Awesome. Is there anything that stopped working for you recently? Some like a a lot is changing so and something that used to work for you always, you know. Some approaches, some some I don't know, some processes, tools, whatever. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, I mean I I would say like the day of sending an email and getting a response or sending a LinkedIn message and getting a Oleksij Rak: Mm-hmm. jeremy ostermiller: response, like sending anything in personal and getting a response, like those days are far and few between. And so I recommend to anyone out there that's listening, go back to the basics, treat it like it's nineteen eighty all over again. Pick up the phone, walk into the office, Talk to people, you don't like people, right? Like this technology that we have is pulling us apart. It's making us depressed and it's manipulating us. And so I really feel like, you know, we need to go back in time versus the future. And if we go back in time and treat people the way we treated them a long time ago and talk to them the way we talk to and I I feel like that's what is making the good company stand out again. Oleksij Rak: Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Awesome. Awesome. Th that was quite an interesting discussion. Is is there anything anything else you'd like to add on top of what we've what we discussed? jeremy ostermiller: I would say, you know, if you're listening out there, if you take anything from this conversation, is go find out what your superpowers are. Every human has superpowers, and you're probably thinking, well, I don't have superpowers. What are they? And I tell people to go, you know, go ask your mom, go ask your best friend, go ask your uncle, go ask anyone you, your girlfriend, and odds are you have two or three superpowers. And if you figure out what those are and you embody those superpowers, you will be successful. So go spend the time and figure out what you're good at and not only what you're good at but what you like doing, what you're passionate about doing and odds are that will make you successful. Oleksij Rak: be the worst the best one in in what you do. jeremy ostermiller: Yeah, you'll love it. Oleksij Rak: Awesome. Thanks a lot, Jeremy. That was a great one. jeremy ostermiller: Thank you for your time. Oleksij Rak: And and yeah, and good luck with your brands. jeremy ostermiller: I appreciate it.