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Transcript

How to Make Friends with Gay Men · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:03
  Speaker A: Welcome to Gay Men going deeper, a podcast series by the Gaiman's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. We are your hosts. Michael Durio is a life and wellness coach specializing in sexuality, relationships and self confidence. Reno Johnston is a spiritual life, love and business coach. And I am Matt Lancadell, a counselor and facilitator specializing in healing and empowerment. We each have our own private practice and in this podcast we're sharing all of our best stuff. So today we are talking about how to make friends with other gay men. We're going to be exploring questions like what are some challenges you have making friends with other gay men? And what are some ways that you have found success in making friends? We'll continue these discussions on the last Thursday of every month in the gay men's Brotherhood, sharing circles where you'll have a chance to share your own experiences. We also have our connection circles which happen on the second Thursday of every month, and our smaller, more intimate breakout rooms where you can discuss the topics on this podcast with other members in our community. You can go to gay mensbrotherhood.com and check out our event section to RSVP. If you don't have Facebook, you can also get on our email list and we'll directly email you that Zoom link. And just a reminder that this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. If you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show notes using or the to the show using the link in the show notes. You can also subscribe to early access option on Apple Podcasts, listen ad free and gain early access to episodes. All your support helps us to continue making content for you and supporting our community. And we do thank you for that in advance. And if you're looking to accelerate your personal development journey, you can check out our coaching collection, learn how to heal and empower yourself at your own pace by getting instant access to 45 premium personal development coaching videos created by us, as well as our healing your shame and building better relationships courses. And you can find those on gaymengoingdeeper.com dot. And lastly, if you are new here, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please subscribe and leave us a review. This helps us get into the ears of people who need us. We do appreciate that. All right, so this topic, it is one of the biggest pain points that I see. There's two big pain points that I see in my work. It's having a hard time finding relationships and having a hard time finding friendships. So it's a hard time finding connection. We've done so many episodes on this, but we figured we wanted to tackle it again with maybe a fresh perspective on how we can build platonic connection, essentially with other gay men, because this is extremely important for our mental health, our well being, to have to have friends. We have a unique challenge as gay men in the sense that we are attracted to the same sex that we would be friends with. This can happen in heterosexual relationships as well. It's not unique to us, but it tends to be bigger. It's a bigger thing for us. I find heterosexual people branch off, they get coupled, and the man will have male friends and the female will have female friends. That's a traditional structure. So you don't often have that issue with there being attraction in the picture. And I think this is one of the bigger factors that causes maybe some disturbance or whatever to making friends, is that we can follow our biology, which is very normal, right. It's nothing that we need to be, like, ashamed of or anything, but when we follow our biology, we're following attraction, and it can make it more challenging to lead with the intention of platonic. Right. And I see this a lot in my connections too, is it's like sometimes their attraction develops and it makes it hard to just keep the friendship in the friendship zone. So. But then we also have the. This beautiful intersection of friends with benefits. And that is something that we can play with as well as gay men that can make friendship very fun. But also there's the side of that, too, where maybe some people don't want that. They don't want that intersection. They want just purely having a friendship. But I want to honor both. Both structures are very important. Friends with benefits can be a really beautiful container. So it's just something to be mindful of. And I think, you know, just the listener, viewer, I want you just to what, when we're sharing today, I want you to think about how you can maybe try something new, put yourself out there in a new way, vetting in a new way. Right? Like maybe on the apps or these sorts of things. So not always putting people through that filter of are they hot or not? Are they fuckable or not? You know, what if we were to start expanding our horizons and having those lens as well? They're really important. But also, what about having the lens of, like, is this person a good person? Do I have to always be surrounded by people who are attractive? Can I have friends that maybe I wouldn't have, um, gravitate towards sexually, but they would be maybe make a really great friend. Um, so I think, like, you know, energetics. Really tapping into the energetics of, like, who a person is. And, uh, would this person be a good person to have in my life? Um, so, yeah, so let's. Let's explore this. Um, I'm really curious to hear your guys's thoughts on this topic. Um, so we'll start with you, Michael. What are some challenges you have making friends with other gay Mendez?
• 5:26
  Speaker B: My biology.
• 5:28
  Speaker A: Your biology.
• 5:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly what you said there. That's probably the biggest challenge yet. It's also fun. So I agree. I like to play in both those spaces. There are times when I really want a friend with benefits, and that's what I'm looking for. One of those times is now, personally, my life. I'm in the space of wanting that. That'd be really nice. But then there's times where I don't want that at all, and I really just want platonic friendships and to talk to and not have to not have the sexual component with it. But that's been the challenge for me historically and even to this day. Either my attraction, my biology, gets in the way, and I have to, like, very consciously, very deliberately, which is kind of hard to go against your biology, be like, no, Michael, this is not what this is. Because naturally, I just. I'm a very flirtatious guy. It just kind of oozes out of me sometimes. I don't even know I'm doing it. Um, and that can, you know, first of all, people get the wrong idea, even when it's not my intention, and it's just this big mess. And it just gets in the way. It gets in the way of being like, hey, listen, I really like you. You know, let's hang out or let's meet up. Because inevitably, if I say, let's hang out and let's meet up, it's like, is that a date? Is that a hookup? What are we doing? And you have to be very deliberate and very clear sometimes. Like, even though it seems kind of awkward to be like, I'm just looking for platonic friendship, sometimes you have to stay just to get it, just to get that out there. And the reverse is true as well. Like, I don't know if someone says that to me and, like, what's going on here? What is this? And so sometimes you just have to kind of say it. And I find that that can be hard. Like, it's nothing. A natural conversation to have, like, what are we doing? What is this? What's happening? You just kind of want to be organic with it and not talk about it too much. But I will say platonic friendship is great. It has been a challenge for me, but the biggest challenge is more so about these days. I can manage the sexual stuff a bit more with myself, but it's really finding things to talk about that are kind of what I want to talk about because, yes, I can talk about all the things about, you know, like, I love all the stuff, like, you know, the typical stereotypical gay stuff, but what I'm looking for with my friendships now is something but deeper, something but different. So I don't. I find it hard to find gay guys who have the same interests as me. This happened actually just yesterday with a listener of this podcast. You know who you are. We were talking about the Olympics in the euro, the soccer championship, and I'm like, I think I'm, like, the only gay who is super into, like, things like the World cup and the soccer championship, and he is as well. And I'm like, I think we're the only people who are into this, but how nice would it be to have guys who are into that as well? But not just that. Things like, I'm interested in personally are, like, conversations I'd love to have are, like, talking about the world and geopolitics and philosophy, metaphysics, spirituality, business and entrepreneurship, which I know both of you guys are super into as well. And so that is nice. Like, I like going into places that I don't normally go, and that's been a challenge for me because I think it's so easy to stay on the topics of, you know, the things that we like to talk about. And there's nothing wrong with that. I love that, too. But eventually I want something a bit different. So that's probably been the biggest challenge for me, is. Is the interests and getting over my own biology, as you said.
• 8:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Has this evolved for you over the years? Like, did you have different challenges prior before? Cause I know you're pretty social. Like, you. You have a solid group of friends, and when I was there in Toronto, like, I saw, like, you have this real strong group and can community sense, was it always like that for you or.
• 8:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, but before it was most like those. A lot of those connections are because we had hooked up and they became friends or we were. We were hooking up and they became friends or was a friend of benefits that became friends. And that's great. I mean, a lot of my friends are people that I have hooked up with. And now that that's out of the way, there's just no weirdness. It's just, it's great. And I love having, I love that they're okay with that and that I'm okay with that. But that's why I think I'm kind of. Then there came a point when I was about 30 or so, the early thirties, where I was like, no, michael, let's try to find friends and not have sex with them. And that was a very, very tough thing for me to do because I loved it and I loved the chase and I love flirting with people. But I was really, I was in a space in my life where I was like, no, I'm going to really test myself. And I'm happy I did because now I have that skill set under my belt. I can go into a room of gay men and learn not to sexualize them. Yeah.
• 9:46
  Speaker A: Thanks for sharing.
• 9:49
  Speaker C: I learned that sometimes it's like really good to just get that out of the way. And I learned that from, there were a few guys that I had befriended as I moved to Vancouver and I ended up sleeping with all three of them. And I didn't know that this was a thing. I was like, oh, wow, you guys are all friends. Each of you, like, I've slept with each of you. Each of you has, you know, like, and it was mutual. But I'm also going to say that, like, you know, each of those people was also pursuing me. And what I learned was that this is like a common thing where like, you'll have sex and then you'll just get it out of the way and it's done and then you can be friends. And so I was like, okay, but I want to speak from two places. So, like, I'm going to, I'm going to connect to like twenties Reno, like Reno, who came out when he was 19 and then like through twenties because what he's going to say is different than what I'm going to say. So I. Twenties Reno would say, like, gay guys are bitches. Twenties Rito would say like super clicky, you know, like they don't let you in. And also, to be honest, like, there was a piece where I felt like race and physical attraction had like a lot to do with it as well. So that I think Washington definitely a challenge. And then, yeah, back then I would say I was more actively interested in partnership or physical attraction as well. So for me, I don't know, I was looking for gay friends, but I was also looking for sexual companions, romantic companions. And so that did make things tricky. And what I noticed about how I evolved is that back then, I think I just so badly wanted to, like, belong and fit in, especially to, like, the cool, the sort of cool, like, bitchy gays who were, like, at all the events and, you know, and seemed to be this, like, impenetrable click. Right. I admittedly I wanted to be a part of that group, but that didn't happen. What's so interesting, though, is that years later, I actually ended up becoming friends with some of those people. And one of them was kind of surprised to learn that I had felt that way, which is interesting. So, 30, in my thirties, totally different, because I am now more selective about who I want to be in relationship with. And what I find is our interests tend to differ. And this isn't even just with gay men. Like, I'll admit I'm kind of picky when it comes to who I am friends with and, like, where I invest my time. And it's just because, I guess, my standard for relationship and connection has. Has been raised, and I'm less willing to endure relationships that aren't a match. And so what I find is that what the gay men I've connected with at least or met value or prioritize or interested in tends to be different than what I'm interested in. And the level of conversation and connection seems to be unmatched. And so I do have gay friends. The number is close friends, minimal connections, acquaintances. There are. There are, I would say, quite a few of them, you know, and especially in my hometown. Like, if I went there, you know, I'd be saying hello to most of the people that we know each other, but we're not. We're not, like, super close. So that. Yeah, I would say those are my. That's my answer, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:42
  Speaker A: I have a question for you.
• 14:43
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 14:45
  Speaker A: So having sex with somebody, that, how does that change the relationship for you? So let's say it's, like, kind of a friendship, and then you have sex with them. Does anything change for you?
• 14:59
  Speaker C: I mean, I would say in some cases, I'm a little more invested. In other cases, there are a few things that happen. One is I'm a little more invested. Another is that, like, one or both of us is a little less invested. And sometimes it can create complication in that there might be, like, new feelings or a higher degree of attachment. But then in some cases, it's like, oh, great, we got that out of the way now we can really just be friends, you know? Because generally speaking, I haven't really wanted to have sex with them again after we got it out of the way, like one and done, to be honest. So, yeah, it's like, okay, great. Let's. Let's go the beach now, you know? Yeah.
• 16:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:04
  Speaker B: Very similar. For me, I would say that one. It's the last one. Because once it's out of the way, then at least my. My horny ass brain isn't thinking about that anymore. It's like, hey, I put that. I put that aside now so we can just get on with the business of being friends.
• 16:17
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 16:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting. It's, like, more transactional. It feels like.
• 16:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I imagine myself, like, we're all, like little puppies sniffing each other's butts when it's like, you know, when two puppies see each other, they sniff each other's butts and they kind of do their thing, and then once that's out of the way, they're like, okay, cool. Now we can play. That's how I met.
• 16:33
  Speaker C: That is exactly how I. How I saw it. When I was thinking about it, I was like, wow, we're all bunch of, like, we're all a bunch of dogs.
• 16:41
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:43
  Speaker A: Like the gay. The gay handshake.
• 16:45
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 16:48
  Speaker A: You know, it's interesting. Something came up for me when you were sharing, um, both of you actually talking about feeling, like, different. Or at least that's how I perceived it. Like, no one shares my interests or, like, you know, I want guys who are interested in soccer or, you know, Reno. You had that same thing. And it's. It made me wonder, like, psychologically, like, we grow up alone for the most part. Gay. A gay boy alone. It's like, we have a bunch of gay friends, and we're children, right? And then we get this messaging. Well, also speak for myself because I don't want to speak for everybody else. I get this messaging around. I am different, and I've carried this into my adulthood. And it's almost like part of me has, like, grabbed onto it and is like, yes, I'm different, and I've learned to, like, value it and appreciate it, but I think it's something that also creates separation. I see this a lot, like, with even people. And I actually. Most of the gay men I talk to have this. This energy of, like, I can't find friends. No one is interested in the things I'm interested in, and blah, blah, blah, or bitching about the mainstream gay culture. I just see so much of this and I'm most wondering if this is kind of ingrained in us from a young age to feel like we're different and that people don't share our interests and maybe to look for it. I know that it's real, it's going to be there for sure. Like, there's not every gay is going to want to talk about metaphysical stuff. But I feel like if we lead with maybe looking for like, similarities as opposed to differences, and I'm basically talking to myself right now because I got to get better at this as well because I tend to be, the first thing I do is look for differences. How is this person not like me so I can stay safe over here or whatever it might be. It's kind of like most like a trauma response now. Just made me think of that. Um, so, and Michael, you basically, your preamble, we could just replay it back and it would be exactly like mine. Like all the things I wrote down, you said them word for word. Just replace soccer with hockey. And, um, it's identical. So I don't want to go into too much repeat. But attraction tends to be a big factor. Um, you know, it's one or the other. There's an attraction and it makes it challenging to, to develop just a platonic connection. If a friends with benefits option is open, then it can become a great opportunity. Um, but what I find for me with friends with benefits, I'm like, I'm in this tight squeeze right now. I'm like, I'm having a hard time finding the type of connection that I want because I don't actually want a relationship right now. I'm pretty content with where I'm at, and I'm moving through a bunch of stuff. There's a lot of things that are changing for me in my life, and I don't want to. I don't want to be in a partnership right now. So friends with benefits is a really great container for me right now. But I'm finding that friends with the people that are seeking friends with benefits are also kind of have their hands up a bit and they're like, I don't want you to get too close, or I don't want too much intimacy. And I kind of would love, like, a relationship. Like, that feels like a friendship where there's like deep intimacy and respect and love, but I'm not committed to that person. And I don't really want polyamory. I don't want like a non monogamous relationship. I kind of just truly want like a friends with benefits situation. But I want the deeper aspects of connection with that because I'm demisexual. Right. So I can't just do the wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. So for me, it's like, I would love, I like getting to, you know, to know somebody. Like, the current friends with benefits that I have right now is a guy that I dated, and we were in a relationship and it didn't work out, and we decided to just be friends with benefits. And so that works, you know what I mean? Because there's some intimacy there, but there's also this, like, I don't want to fall in love with you again, or I don't want to get back to that place. So there's a bit of wall energy, which. That wall energy is just a total boner killer for me. Right. Like, I need that deeper connection. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing to navigate. I'm finding that there's a deep desire for intimacy, but it's, yeah. Not being met in the way that maybe I want it to. Yeah. And then I would. I would, you know, concur with what you said, michael, is that the lack of shared interests for me is, is. It's been there, but I want to maybe tell a new story of, you know, what about, what about the possibility of, like, me sharing my interest with somebody and it becoming their interest as well? You know, that's, that's a possibility. So I just think that I want to try and be a little bit more open and open minded in, in finding this. And this is kind of interesting because for you, Reno, it sounds like in your twenties you were a little bit more, like, closed off to connection. And in my twenties, I was like, had so many gay friends, and I had a group of guys that I connected with. And then I've kind of reverted into my older years. Now I'm like, I'm very selective and I'm more protective and I'm more introverted and things like that. So I'm finding it harder to probably make friends now in my life than ever before in my life. I was always so good at making friends. I had a big group of friends growing up, and I don't know why that is. I was trying to think. I'm like, yeah, maybe just interest or being quite introverted, these sorts of things. Lots of healing. I've been going through a ton of healing in the last, well, probably decade, and I've been feeling a lot more like Hermit energy. So I think that probably plays into it as well.
• 22:01
  Speaker B: But.
• 22:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, okay, so we've talked about some of the challenges in making friends, and now let's provide some hope because we all know the challenges. They're all there. We can all identify them quite easily. But let's spend the rest of this episode talking about some ways that we've found success in making friends as gay men. So let's start with you, Michael.
• 22:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, I had an answer for this, and I do want to share, but I thought of something else while we were just talking, which kind of goes into this one as well. So I'll share this one first, and if we have time later, I can share that one. The judgmental piece I'll share with you a story.
• 22:43
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 22:44
  Speaker B: I was at the beach last year. I'm going to show this already. I was at the beach last year here at Hamlins in Toronto and minding my own business, reading my book. And there's a group of, a gaggle, as I call them, of gays doing their thing, like prancing around, having a good time. Fine. And there's just one guy in particular who, for whatever reason, my eyes were just drawn to him. Not because I was attracted to him, although yes, I was, because he's very attractive. But he's like this Gen Z Instagay kind of guy that I would imagine, like, young, pretty, fit. And he's just having the gayest time ever, flailing around. And I'm sitting there just thinking like this, feeling super judgy of me, right? Super, super judgy of me. But of course the universe has a way of things. And of course another friend came to meet me. I was just there, quiet, by myself, reading my book. And then another friend comes to me and is like, oh, my friends are over there. I'm going to go say hi. And surely enough, my mutual friend was a friend of this guy that I was earlier judging. I'm like, of course he is. So he comes over and I actually meet this man. I actually made this guy that I was judging. Guess what? Turns out he is incredibly smart, super grounded. We were talking about reading the same kinds of books. He asked me what I was reading. We got into a whole discussion about books. Um, we have similar interests, and he's a genuinely good human that I now consider a friend. And we are now friends. We out of each other on the insta, we chat and everything. So I guess the moral of the story here is, don't be so quick to judge.
• 24:04
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:05
  Speaker B: And I see that a lot because I've done it and I've been on the receiving end of it for people who see me as whatever they see me as. Whatever label you want to throw at me. Scene queen, Jim bro, circuit. Circuit queen, whatever you want to call me. Yes, I am. And also, there's all these other things, and I think that's maybe, I guess, a piece of advice or. Or something that you can find. You know, the question was success and making friends is don't be so quick to judge. Realize that people are more multifaceted than they appear to be and kind of, like, check yourself, because the universe had that way of, like, checking me. And turns out this guy was a wonderful, wonderful man.
• 24:43
  Speaker A: And he.
• 24:43
  Speaker B: He is, and I consider him a friend. So that would be number one. And I think it's so easy to judge people based on what we see on instagram, which, again, is just a curated version of what they want you to see.
• 24:54
  Speaker A: Right.
• 24:54
  Speaker B: So if I see pictures of me at the gym or me at a circuit party, you're going to create a story. But watch that story. It's not necessarily the whole truth. Right.
• 25:02
  Speaker A: Yeah. I want to say something quick. The energetics of that is really interesting, too, because we can feel it. We're all creatures of energy. We can feel it when somebody is judging and they're in that judgy energy. No one wants to be around that energy. Right. So then that perpetuates the story of I'm different, I'm alone, I don't have friends. I'm over here. Right. So if we can maybe turn our judgment into curiosity, how would that change our experience of ourselves and the people around us? Right?
• 25:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Yeah. So I'll leave it there for now, and if we have time later, I'll give you my other one. But let's go to Reno.
• 25:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 25:34
  Speaker C: Thanks. That was good, because I can definitely notice where, like, my back is up in some of these situations because of what I've experienced historically. But then what I see is as a result of that, I potentially end up repeating a cycle and manifesting perhaps the thing that I don't want. So I love that. And it's funny, too, because probably, I'm going to say, well, definitely at one point, he was my best gay friend. We're still very close, and the relationship has just shifted. But I think people would be surprised that this particular person and I are such close friends because we seem so different. But what I love about him is that we can like Kiki and have a good time together, and then we can go, like, really deep, you know? And so that's great. And what I loved about our relationship was that actually sometimes I just didn't want to be deep and with him, I didn't have to. We could just be goofballs and watch, like, RuPaul or family guy, because that's what he was into. And he just, like, feed me and it'd be amazing, you know? So, yeah, I think for me, it's been putting myself out there. You know, I volunteered. You know, I've gone to different events. I've participated in different groups and communities. I know that joining, like, sports teams requires, which I haven't done, but I know that that can also work really well. And I think. I think what you said earlier, Matt, is probably more important than, like, let's say, the more pragmatic aspects of having success in making friends. It's the energetics, you know? Because what I get about relating and relationships is that when I am embodying energetically embodying openness, curiosity, availability, willingness, that tends to be felt by the universe, you know, and it's like I am then a space for what I would like to come in. So, yeah. Yeah, I would say those are my answers for now. Yeah. Yeah. What about you?
• 28:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, if there was an award for the most online friends, I would win it for sure. But I have, like, barely any gay friends, like, here, like, in person, which I want that to change. I feel like I want more community in person community. But, yeah, I guess, you know, building community and, like, being open, I think that's a great way to make friends because my online friends, like, the people that I connect with are. Those connections are so special to me. But I think there's this really. There's this part of me I'm yearning for. What you said, like, playful, just fun, light. Like, I'm coming out of, like, a very long, dark, healing journey tunnel. And I wanted friends who I could, like, be held by and, like, talk about deep things and talk about my traumas and things like that. And, like, I kind of. I'm not yearning for that now. Like, I'm yearning for more playful fun. So I think that will shift. I think that's going to bring that energy in. And both are important. Like, honestly, I would never bypass that part of myself because those friends that can hold me are, like, so important, and those are, like, my ride or die people. But I kind of want lighter, funner kind of people to go out dancing with and, you know, have a crew. And my favorite show is big bang theory. And I watch it, like, all the time. And, you know, they say that when, like, your subconscious is always being drawn towards your subconscious comfort zones. Right. Things. And those are usually things that we're not quite aware of. So if, like, you watch, you know, home makeover shows or something like that, maybe there's a personality need that's being met or scratched by, like, you watching that. And for me, I think there's a yearning to have, like, that really close knit, like, group of people that you, like, connect with all the time. And those, your people? I have them, but they're separate. They're all separate people. Like, one on one people. It'd be fun to have, like, a crew, you know? So that's, that's interesting. But as far as, like, how I've had success making friends, I think, like, Michael, a lot of my friends have come from dates, so go on a Tinder date doesn't work. It's like, let's be friends. So I would say most of my male gay friends are guys that I went on, like, Tinder dates with a, like, maybe 2% I've had sex with. Like, I don't usually have sex with guys that I would just want to be in a friend connection with. And then, so I'm doing something. I'm trying something new now. So on my dating apps, for the first time ever, I just have seeking friendship. And it's interesting because a lot more people are coming through, but it's very interesting because seeking friendship and vetting for friendship is similar to dating in a way. Right? Like, because I still want value alignment. I still want certain things, certain shared interest that we can hang out and do certain things together. So it's fascinating. But what I'm also finding is that these guys, even though it says just seeking friendship on my profile, a lot of these guys are, like, asking me questions about what I'm into sexually and things like that. So I'm noticing that I'm having to get good at setting boundaries. And I think that is also a success in making friendships, is having boundaries and adhering to them and making requests and setting up the container how you want it to be. You know what I mean? And I'm finding that that brings up a bit of discomfort for me in having to, like, you know, slide it into friends. Um, but I also find that, too, I'm getting really good at being tactful in making requests and. And setting these sorts of things up and, um, and speaking from a very, very true and authentic place within me about what I'm feeling. Like, if I go on, like a friend date or something. And I'm feeling that, oh, it could possibly something more, I'll communicate that. Or if I'm feeling like the person was vibing with me in a sexual way and I wasn't feeling that, I'll just say, hey, listen, this is the vibe I was picking up, but I'm doing it in, like, a really tactful way, allowing it to open. Right. And I'm finding that, like, leading with that part of me that's sensitive about to rejection or criticism, like, leading with that part and being very humble around that. People are very open, and it's leading to some cool connections. So the apps, honestly, the apps can be such a beautiful way for us to connect, but there's a lot of discernment and a lot of strong communication, I think that's required in order to. To do that. And I use, like, I use authentic relating. Like, that's my number one communication modality in all interactions now. And it works. It works quite well, I find, in, you know, that space. But, yeah, the lines still get blurred, for sure. And that's just part of it, I think. So, yeah. And then I liked what you said, reno. Embodying, I can't remember what you said, like, a bunch of words, but I kind of just interpreted as, like, embody, like, humanness, right. And, like, go towards connections as a human. Like, yes, we're gonna have these things, like political ideologies or these sorts of things, and I think it's important to lead with those, even more important when looking for a romantic partner. But, like, what if you were to be friends with a Republican and you're a Democrat? Or what if you were to be friends with a Christian and you're an atheist? Or. You know what I mean? Like, is that okay, like, can we still be friends with people and, like, connect with the human in that person and not be so driven by. By rejecting people because of ideology? That's just something that I. That I think about, too, because I think I've learned a lot from people who don't think the way that I do, and it's helped me grow, for sure. So I think being open to different types of connections can be really, really powerful as well, too. Yeah. Yes. Did you want to. Yeah. Did you want to share your last point?
• 34:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, I do, and it's great because Reno actually covered a bunch of it. But there's one piece I want to add, if it may be my final piece of advice, finding success. So I hear this a lot from people is like, I don't want to be the one to reach out. I don't want to be the one to make plans. Like, girl, own it. Do you want friends or not? If so, just do it. Like, I am the one to reach out. I am the one to make the plans. I am the one to start the group chat. I'm the one to keep reminding people, hey, we're doing this. We're going here. We're going to go there. I want to come, want to do this, one of that. And, like, I don't care. Like, I'll be that annoying girl. Um, and so I think if you do want that friendship, I think so many of us just take such a passive role. Like, I'm just going to sit here quietly and hope my best friend knocks on my door and, like, they're not going to go out. And, you know, Reno had a whole bunch of really diverse ways of meeting people. You know, part of owning it is go where your people are. You know, go to that sports league, go to the choir, go to a book club, wherever they are. Go to the nightclub. I don't know where it is, but find those places and go to them. And I realize that for those of us in urban centers are spoiled for choice, where there are a lot of people who are in rural areas that are not. And I do get that. That's where the online piece does come in. Like, our community at the Gaiman's brotherhood. Fantastic place for those of you who aren't in urban centers, but for those of you who are, and you are spoilt for choice, get out there. Be the one to go out. Like, be the one to ask, text the person, say, hey, let's go out. And so I think a lot of people that I see just don't want to be that one. They want to be. They want to. They want to kind of stand by and let others come to them. And I'm like, no, no, no. You got to. If you want this, you got to work for it. Especially as adults, we aren't kids anymore, where you have to go to school five days a week and you're forced to be friends with people. Like, you have to work for it now.
• 36:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I. You reminded me of something that, you know, it's very different where you live compared to even, let's say, where I live. Like, I live in a pretty big city still, too. It's like 1.7 million. But even if we're talking about, like, a city like Winnipeg, right, which is like, whatever, 500,000 so when you go to an event Michael you may. It's not likely that you're going to see like maybe all the people that you've had sex with at that event because there's so many gay people in Toronto. If you go out in smaller places. Right. It's like guaranteed. So there's this energy I think. And you know the theme for this month is social anxiety. And I think I, I think wed be remiss if we didnt bring this piece up like making friends. When we go out to events its like everyones had sex with everybody and their boyfriends and this and that. So there can be this energy of like it can feel hard right to go out to these events because what if you ghosted this person and theyre there? So I dont want this uncomfortability. Im going to stay home. Right. So this social anxiety can be a real big factor that can prevent us from making friends. But I liked what Reno said. Like and what you just said. Like, you know put your big boy pants on and like, you know learn how to have difficult conversations and move into these, these you know.
• 37:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:18
  Speaker A: These challenging conversations. Yeah. Because they're. Yeah.
• 37:21
  Speaker B: It's like the day that people say I don't want to text him first. It's like just text the person.
• 37:26
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 37:27
  Speaker B: Like that.
• 37:29
  Speaker C: Yeah. I've had those uncomfortable conversations too and they really are. But they're also like, like they change things. You know? I remember having a conversation with someone who seemed a bit standoffish and you know he, one of the first things he said to me was like, yeah, when I, like I didn't really like you when I first saw you. And I was like, I didn't really like you either to be honest. Like I thought you were kind of stuck up. And we just had a laugh about it and then we started talking and we became a dear friends. You know? So it does happen like that. And I love what you said Michael. I had written that down and I totally forgot because I've been looking at my notes. But you know this piece around creating like when I was in Winnipeg we created this group called Q PaC and it was for queer, trans and people of color. Right. And it was amazing because, you know that seemed to be missing. And then we created it and all of a sudden out of the woodwork come all these people who are a match for what we created. So it really, I mean the gay men's brotherhood is a perfect example of that. Right. It's like there's a gap in the market, fill it, you know? So I love what you said, and I think, yeah, like, if there's something really specific that you're looking for, if you name those values, if you name what it is you're looking for, the psychographics of, you know, the people that you're looking to connect with, and you create something that speaks to those people, they'll come out of the woodwork, you know?
• 39:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good points, good points. And, yeah, we could go on and on. I feel like there's, we're just getting the juices flowing now. But for those of you listening and watching, come and join us tonight for the Connection circle and continue this conversation. So you'll go into your own little pod of three and you can talk about this stuff, talk about any social anxieties that come up around making friends. So yes, those happen on the second Thursday of every month, and then our sharing circles happen on the last Thursday of every month and it's going to be the same topic. So social anxiety is the theme for this month. So come and unpack it and share your social anxieties. We all got them to certain degrees and they're there, so it's important to bring voice to them. And if you've yet to join us in the Facebook group, come and join us. Gay men's Brotherhood. There's lots of great conversations and support happening in that space on Facebook. And for anything gay men's brotherhood related, you can go to Gaiman's brotherhood.com and visit us over on our website. All right, much love, everybody, and thanks to you guys for your wisdom and vulnerability. As always. Adios.