Latest / Gay Men Going Deeper / Inner Child Work

Transcript

Inner Child Work · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:05
  Speaker B: Welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper, a podcast series by the Gam's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. We are your hosts. Michael Diorio is a life and wellness coach specializing in sexuality, relationships and self confidence. Reno Johnson is a life coach, business consultant and director of marketing for the Body Electric School. And I am Matt Lansdell, an intuitive life and spiritual coach and counselor specializing in healing and empowerment. So we each have our own coaching practice, but in this podcast we're sharing all of our best stuff with you guys. So today we're talking about inner child work. I think this episode is long overdue. I'm surprised we haven't done this episode yet because I think this is so important for for human beings, never mind just gay men. I think this is tremendously important for all human beings. So today we're going to be talking or we're going to be answering questions like how would you describe your relationship with your inner child? So both past and present, what does inner child work mean to you and how have you done this, this type of work? And what have been some of the benefits of doing inner child work for you? So we'll continue these discussions on the last Thursday of every month in the Gay Men's Brotherhood Zoom Hangout where you will have a chance to share your own experiences. And this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported. If you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes. You can also subscribe to the early access option on Apple Podcasts, Listen ad free and gain early access to episodes. All your support helps us to continue making content for you and supporting our community. And we do thank you in advance. And if you're looking to accelerate your personal development journey, check out our new coaching collection so you can learn how to heal and empower yourself at your own pace by getting instant access to 45/ premiums personal development coaching videos created by us, as well as our Healing your shame course and Building better relationships course. So you can head over to gameandgoingdeeper.com for more information for that. Okay, so inner child work. What the heck is it? For those of you who don't know what inner child work is, so I describe. Well first of all, let's kind of look at what the inner child is because inner child work is essentially healing and empowering the inner child within us. So what is this inner child? So I define it as a subconscious sub personality structure made up of past memories, emotions and versions of ourselves from childhood. So this can be positive and negative. Oftentimes we think when we're doing inner child work that we're, you know, just focusing on the negative. But we're part of inner child work, I think, is focusing on the positive, like the play and like, you know, our innocence and. And the beauty of what it was like being a child and kind of remembering that. But a lot of this work is about healing the parts of us that were wounded in childhood that are now impairing our ability to be able to feel safe as an adult, to be in relationships without there being, you know, complete chaos, these sorts of things. So, and, you know, it is a subconscious personality structure. So oftentimes this inner child part of us is not at the forefront. It's not in the conscious part of our. Of our. Of our, you know, psyche. It's in the back part, right. And it's. It's usually creating havoc in our lives. So in order to do this work, we have to start making the unseen scene. We have to make the subconscious conscious, and we have to. This requires a lot of, in my opinion, a lot of embodiment and a lot of connecting to past memories, getting back off or online if we have dissociated from our childhood. So these types of things so we can start to connect to. To the conscious part. I think it's important to enter or to normalize the. The inner child wound because it's. I would say most human beings have some form of wounding from childhood. If you think about, you know, I'm not a parent, so I'm just basically theoretically relating how difficult it would be to raise a child because there's so many intrinsic and dynamic needs that a human being has. And, you know, parents are fallible and they have their own traumas and their own things. So it's very, very normal for. For needs to go unmet in childhood. And sometimes these needs are core needs and it can lead to a lot of trauma. And, you know, so that's really what I look at inner child wounding is, is it's unmet needs that we've experienced as a young person. And we didn't have the coping skills to be able to deal with these unmet needs. So they created wounding and trauma. And if you look at, you know, the six basic human needs that most. Well, not most, that all human beings have in the emotional, mental and spiritual domain, I'm not talking about like food and shelter. I'm talking about in the emotional arena we have growth is one of them. So that's our. Our need to be able to personally develop and learn and acquire wisdom and knowledge. The second one is love and connection. So this is our. Our ability to be able to feel loved and to connect with people and to communicate and to have boundaries. And the next one is significance. So this is to feel seen, to feel heard, to feel that we matter and certainty being we. We have the need to feel safe and secure and have predictability in our. In our environment when we're younger. Uncertainty is more. That kind of spontaneity, the adventure, the exploration, the play. This is extremely important as well. And the last one is contribution. So our. Our need to be able to contribute to something greater than ourselves to whether that be a. To a purpose or have meaning in our lives. So these six human needs are really important. And I would invite the viewer, listener to kind of reflect and think like which. Which area, for me, did unmet needs occur? Right. And is this playing out now? Right. And a good example of this is, you know, for somebody who didn't feel seen or heard when they're younger, might have not got the need of significance met. So they might go throughout their whole life either denying this need, or they could be looking to get this need met in unhealthy or manipulative ways. Right. So when we can learn about this need and start to heal the unmet need and the wounding around that, we can go at getting our needs met directly. And I think this is a lot of what inner child work is. It's about understanding our core needs and learning how we can start to get them met as adults, which is, I think, kind of see as like the reparenting process, which we'll talk about later in the episode. But so I kind of went through this and I was kind of. I wanted to identify, like, the four inner child wounds that. That I see that I've had in my life, that I work with. And I think these are kind of, you know, you look at mainstream psychology, I think these would probably play in there as well. So the first one is the shame or guilt wound. So this could be I am bad or flawed, made to feel guilty for having needs or boundaries. And I think this one, a lot of gay men might be able to relate to this one, because shame is a big part of our experience when we're younger. And our poor little inner children, you know, had to endure being scared of, like, what if I share my truth? What if I. What if people find out about who I am? It's. It can be very Traumatic. So I think this is a big one. The second one is rejection wound. So perhaps hearing when you were younger that you're not good enough and being rejected because of that. So that could be by parents, by siblings, by, you know, children in the playground, your peers, whatever that might be. And we carry that around with us in our adulthood. The next one is the neglect wound. So feeling like you don't matter, no one sees me or cares about me. And then the last one is the abandonment or the disappointment wound. So I'll be left, or I'll be let down and disappointed, or I was let down and disappointed. And I think that's a big one for a lot of people as well. So I think there's a lot more. But these are the four that I wanted to identify and just bring forward to the audience because I think there might be some relatability there. And so I wanted to identify a couple signs. Well, not a couple. I put 16 down, so bear with me. But I'm long winded. But these are signs of, of possible inner child wounding. Okay. So I want people to pay attention because you might identify yourself in these and then we'll, we're going to be sharing things throughout the episode that might help you provide healing to some of these things. So, so signs of a, of a wounded inner child. So childlike emotional responses might be lashing out, slamming doors, throwing temper tantrums, silent treatment, yelling, mocking others. So there's a very, there's an injury to relational dynamic. Right. We, we throw temper transfer tantrums when we're in relational dynamics as a way of proving points, things like that we might have a strong inner critic. And this is usually from my perspective, something called the parent ego. So when we're younger and we have these experiences of say, our parent criticizing us, we end up, what we end up doing is we internalize that dialogue and we start to use it within our own psych psychology. And we likely aren't hearing the voice of our parents. It's our own voice. So we become a bully to ourselves because we were bullied by the people that were supposed to be caring for us when we were younger. So we also can become unsure of our needs and how to get them met. Especially if we had to self sacrifice for a parent and we had to be their caregiver when, when we're younger, I think that can really impair our ability to prioritize our needs. Difficulty knowing and setting healthy boundaries, Feeling guilty for standing up for yourself, fear of conflict, fear of abandonment, or a Fear of intimacy. This, I think those are the two things that characterize insecure attachment styles. Feeling inadequate or unworthy of love and belonging. That's a big one. I think afraid to ask for help. Especially if we had to become hyper independent as a child. And so asking for help can be very terrifying. Becoming activated when not listened to or ignored. So this again could be a sign of the neglect. Inner child wound, self betrayal. So we could betray ourselves and our own needs for love or validation. People pleasing. So I think this is an unconscious attempt to control people's perceptions of us through appeasing other people. Performing or achieving for love or worthiness. Self shaming, restriction, punishment. I look at this as like kind of classical conditioning. If you look at classical conditioning, which is, I would say, probably one of the main models that parents use for parenting, which is reward and punishment. So you do good, you get rewarded. You do bad, you get punished. And sometimes the behavior we're engaging in is not worthy of being punished for. It's like maybe we're trying to get a need met and we get punished for that. And this can lead to us feeling shamed for getting a need met. Right? Like, let's say our need is to. To feel like we're being seen. So we. And we want attention from our. Our parents, but they're not giving it to us. So we start acting out and then we get shamed and punished for that. And we're. We start to equate like, wait a minute. Like when I want your attention and your love and affection, I get punished. So we can easily. That can be a pretty significant wound. Unconsciously denying other people's realities or truths. Other people need to be wrong for you to be right. And then the last one is excessive reliance on external validation or parent parental approval. So again, this is. This is a long list, but there's probably more that we could identify. I'm curious. I want to just open it up to you guys. Is there anything that. That was stimulated from hearing that?
• 12:31
  Speaker A: I was like, yo, did you just read my whole book? Like the laundry list of that I have been working on my entire life. I was like, wow. Yeah, Check, check, check. Yeah, all the way down. All the way down. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
• 12:52
  Speaker C: Yeah. I'd agree. Without the. The wounds that you had said at the beginning, the core runes. I mean, all of them. Like really I could see I could relate to my inner child in all of those situations. And I remember. I don't know about remember, but I can certainly feel those feelings again.
• 13:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 13:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 13:08
  Speaker A: You Know what's so remarkable about you, like, sharing all of those in detail and also pointing to the war is. Is the awareness. Like, it's so. It's just so cool to see it, like, laid out in front of you very clearly. It's like, yeah, I can see that showing up and that and that and that. And I guess what I've seen in my own experience is the awareness of. It is kind of like, in a way, the beginning of the unraveling, you know, and. And perhaps the beginning of this, like, journey to. To reconciliation and. And liberation, you know, those patterns. So it's so cool to just see that list in front of me. Yeah.
• 13:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, I'm glad. Okay, well, let's hop in with the first question. So how would you describe your relationship with your inner child, past or present? And whoever feels inclined to hop on in, feel free?
• 14:11
  Speaker C: I'm looking at you, Reno, but I can start.
• 14:14
  Speaker A: Do you. Do you want to go first?
• 14:16
  Speaker C: No, no, you go ahead.
• 14:17
  Speaker A: Okay. Well, to be honest, like, this is a part of me that I feel very easily connected to. It's in this interesting way, and it's almost surprising to me that this is so. Because if I look back, I mean, yeah, like, I had a pretty good life in some ways, and also, like, if I. If I shared everything that I had gone through in those early, informative years and leading up to them, I think that people would maybe be surprised. And I think people would also be surprised that I somehow managed to maintain a certain innocence and playfulness and, you know, all these qualities that we describe as. As being in connection with the inner child. Because I was forced to grow up pretty quickly and somehow still managed to sneak in, play, adventure, you know, innocence, curiosity, spontaneity. And. And I. And I haven't lost that. I was in the living room some time ago with one of my. One of my housemates, and I've actually heard this repeatedly. She said to me, you, like, you're so connected to your inner child. It just, like. It just, like, radiates in you all the time, you know? And I. And I thought that was really special to hear, because my experience is that I've really had to fight for that in a world and in environments that either, I don't know, made it too much or really sort of pushed me and. And. And perhaps even coerced me or shamed me into growing up, you know, so to speak, and maturity made sense to me. But their notions of growing up and their ideas of that expression being, like, too much or not, okay. It just didn't resonate with me. So I think me and my inner child, like, we kick it on the regular, you know, and we. And we have. And also. And also we have some work to do, you know, continually. It's like, okay, dude, it's probably bedtime now. You know, that's like, wash up, brush your teeth. Was like, put down the iPhone, play times over. You got a rest. Because we know what happens when you don't. You get moody. And so. And that whole laundry list becomes your day. It's like, so, you know, I get to be the parent to the child in those moments, you know? Yeah.
• 17:27
  Speaker C: I'm laughing, Reno, because the way you talk to your inner child is the way I talk to mine. Like, like, it's. I, I. I feel like we have the same kind of attitude and voice with him, which I think is fun. I think that's the fun part of it. Right. Like, to answer the question. Sorry, were you complete, Reno? Yeah. Okay. To answer the question, I think I didn't have any relationship with my inner child before. I kind of learned about this concept and did some work with it. So I didn't talk to that little boy version of me at all. So now that I do have this kind of relationship with the little boy version of me, it is nice. And I do get to realize that in the past, maybe I was pushing things away, pushing needs away, shaming him, criticizing all these things that are very much. Like, when I think of an inner child, the version of me, I have a picture because I wanted to share with you guys. Okay. This is who I imagine when I talk about my inner child.
• 18:20
  Speaker A: Hopefully you guys can see. See this?
• 18:22
  Speaker C: Can you see that?
• 18:23
  Speaker A: Oh, so cute.
• 18:26
  Speaker B: So adorable.
• 18:27
  Speaker A: What a cutie pie.
• 18:28
  Speaker C: So that's who I imagine. I imagine like a young child, like, like this. I was five or six years old here.
• 18:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Speaker C: And when I think of an inner child, he's innocent.
• 18:38
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 18:38
  Speaker C: Like, he doesn't. He doesn't know this. This version of me, oddly enough, I'm. For those of you who can't see, I'm wearing a baseball uniform, and I actually hate baseball, and I always did. How they got me to smile in that photo, I don't know. But that version of me, you know, loved my atlas, his Lego set, and playing in the sand at the beach. Wasn't really a team sports kind of guy. He's also very shy, very quiet, very sensitive. I. I remember often wanting to, like, cling on to, like, my, My mom or grandmother, people that, like, I just Felt close with and being scared to be out kind of playing with the other kids. I wasn't that. I wasn't that one really. I was kind of doing my own thing, playing out by myself, but still having a good time. And I really wanted to be a good boy. So Matt, you had talked a little bit about people pleasing and that people pleaser part of me was bor. Just more than anything, I wanted to be a good boy and I wanted to please the adults in my life. So yeah, when I didn't have that relationship, when that guy was just, I don't know, sort of not really part of the forefront of my mind, oddly enough, I will say that's when the inner child had the most control over me. When I wasn't paying attention to him, when I wasn't asking how he's feeling, what are his needs, all of these kinds of things. I was kind of acting out in a childlike sense without that reparenting piece that you guys have both talked about, like parenting yourself. Like, I didn't have that language, I didn't think of that concept. So it was just kind of out of sight, out of mind. But it was actually when I was out of mind that it was creating most chaos. Now that I do, I literally have this photo like around me often to remind myself and yeah, I just love this. I love this guy so hard. I love him so much. Like it's. It's the most pure kind of love. When I, when I think of that guy, I can love him harder and more and easier than I can if I look at myself in the mirror as a 40 year old man. Because as a 40 year old man, I've made some. I've made some bad choices, I've made some mistakes and I'm not innocent. Whereas when I look at that little boy, I'm like, he has done nothing wrong. Right? He just wants to be loved and wants to be seen. And all of the, all of those wounds met that you had so, so eloquently mentioned in the beginning, sometimes they didn't get met. And so he felt sad and lonely and abandoned. That was probably my biggest one. If I had to pick one, I would say the abandonment one. And so then I acted out, you know, as a child from that sense. But guess what? I was still doing that, you know, as an adult. But we can talk a little bit more about that later. So, yeah, I guess that's the, that's the contrast between then, which I had no relationship and now, which I do. And in fact I quite. I love that little kid. I just want to pick him up and squeeze him.
• 21:16
  Speaker A: I want to show you something really quick too. It's so funny because, like, the background on my phone is.
• 21:22
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I've seen that.
• 21:23
  Speaker A: It's like little Reno. Yeah. I. Akin to you. I keep pictures. Like, there's one right here in the background too. My grandma holding me as a baby. But I keep photos around as well. Yeah, love that. It's brilliant.
• 21:36
  Speaker C: It just makes it so much more tangible to see it and just remember, like, that little boy still is in here, right? He's still me. I'm still him. Sure, I'm older, but I still have the same emotions.
• 21:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 21:46
  Speaker C: Yeah. How about you, Matt?
• 21:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, I wanted just to kind of share a bit of impact of what that was like to hear your guys's. I felt really emotional. It was just really beautiful to kind of see you guys connect because I could feel the energy of you connecting with that. That part of you, and it was just really, really beautiful to see. And then I noticed this is going to be a heavy episode. I feel like. Yeah, I just noticed, like, grief inside me because I think this is an area that I've been working like, so hard, like, unbelievably hard to try and repair. And my inner child just feels. Well, when I was about, I think seven or eight is kind of when like, chaos started to take over in my. In my family, like in my household, and I just shut down. I just completely shut off everything. And I went into major dissociation. And I was terrified. My inner child is terrified, still extremely terrified. But I didn't feel fear as a kid. I shut off all of my ability to feel that. And I became very controlling. I became very repressed. I became very angry. And those were my. That was how I kept myself safe.
• 23:44
  Speaker A: And.
• 23:47
  Speaker B: This is why I've had such challenging relationships, is because I don't know how to let people in because I don't feel safe. I don't trust people. And a lot of the things that I listed are the things that I experienced. I was reflecting on my own experience and like, I don't. I didn't trust. I didn't trust the adults in my life when I was younger. I didn't. And I learned to not trust myself. And I got myself into really shitty situations. And so there was a lot of. A lot of issues with this. And I think why I was feeling that grief is because, Reno, like, you were talking about, like, how you kick it with this person and, And. And and everything and that you have people witness you in that. And that's what brought up the grief for me is like I have that connection, but I only connect with him when I'm alone. Like, I never share that part of me with people. And this is the part that is like yearning to be seen and, and you know, in my play and in my joy and, and all these things. And I just. This is such a struggle for me, you know what I mean? And it has been most of my life. And I think what I'm going through right now is like a softening and like an opening up process. And it's very painful because I feel like all of my defense mechanisms, like, you know, my anger, my control, all these things, like I'm not doing them anymore. I'm not, I'm not wearing this mask of stoicism, being like, get the away from me. I'm trying to let people in. I'm not being angry. I'm trying to be soft. I'm trying to open my heart every single morning. That's like my intention is I try and open my heart. And I think the biggest thing.
• 25:39
  Speaker A: The.
• 25:40
  Speaker B: Biggest thing I'm feeling right now is just fear, like a ton of fear. And you know, it's like I have this do like the dichotomous experience. Like I have this really mature, developed, like I coach people. I'm like, you know, people always turn to me for support and advice and I have this, I have this like dad energy in me and I have that part of me and then I have this other part of me that's just completely terrified of the world, terrified of relationships, you know, And I've. I've been navigating a disorganized attachment style for, well, my whole life. But I've been navigating it consciously for 10 years and trying to heal it and it's exhausting. I'm so tired of pushing and pulling and you know, I've been doing the work. I've been showing up, I've been in, in, in doing the therapeutic work. I've been doing all, all this stuff. But these wounds are so deep and they're, they're ingrained in the psyche so deeply that it's like I feel like I need to have a relationship that is trusting and safe so I can surrender and let go and like just experience that, you know, because I haven't in my whole life, I've never experienced a relationship that I can trust, you know, And I think that's part of the grief too, is Like, I'm always on guard, and I know that this.
• 27:13
  Speaker A: That.
• 27:13
  Speaker B: That's this part of me, this inner child part of me that's just like, oh, he's tired. He's exhausted from, like, holding on and white knuckling. This. This whole journey, you know, it's like. So I'm hoping that this. You know, I'm doing a lot of somatic work right now, and, like, I'm hoping that this is, like, the last straw because I'm like, I can't go on with, you know, this heaviness anymore. It just. It does feel like it needs to just release and, like, you know, finally give me that, like, that piece that I've been, like, working so hard to get towards. But anyway, I think that's. That's what's alive. And it's like, it's so. I'm so raw with it right now because it's exactly what I'm navigating. Like, literally last week I was, like, doing inner child work with my therapist and, like, like, really going into all of these memories that I have as a child where things were so out of control and it's so visceral. Like, it's just like. And I think because I was dissociating for so long, and probably a lot of the inner child work I did previously was quite cerebral. I was doing. I was sharing the stories of my trauma and of the things that I went through, but I wasn't probably getting to that embodied place of, like, being able to fully release. And there's a lot of anger. That's what I'm meeting is just so much anger. And I think the anger for me is like. It's a mask to how truly how scared and hurt I feel and have felt throughout my life. So, yeah, anyway, let's.
• 28:44
  Speaker A: Can I. I really want to take a moment to acknowledge you. You're remarkable. The. The. The fact that you just shared all of that in this community. There are a few things I want to say. And, like, I. I know we have questions, and, you know, and I. I was going to say I want to break script, but we also don't have one. That's what I love about the platform. And that speaks to play, you know, that speaks to play. That speaks to the child, Matt. Like, I have witnessed you recognize your disconnect from the gay community and build one and then step into it over and over and over again. I have witnessed you do the work and publicly and openly share that journey and that process time and time again in different ways. Whether it's on the Zoom community calls, whether it's on the podcast and the YouTube channel, whether it's, you know, in your personal endeavors and that other little piece of the world that you, that you take up. And then here and now, I just witnessed you reveal yourself in, in the most beautiful and trusting way. I've, I've, I've, you know, jammed out to like tunes with you in the car and, and had like lovely nature walks and beach hangs with you and laughed with you and cried with you. And I, I, I just want to say, like, like your inner child to me is so much more present than you might be aware of. And the work you have done is so much more visible than you may be aware of. And I just feel like I really want to reflect that back to you. I see you, I hear you, I feel you, you and him, you know, and I just love that part of you and engaging with that part of you and, and all parts of you, to be honest. You know, you've been a dear friend and teacher and, and a delight to work with as well. We've had our moments, of course, but you're remarkable. Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:35
  Speaker B: Thank you. Yeah.
• 31:37
  Speaker C: Can I share a story about that? Actually, I'm really happy you said that, Reno. So Matt, when you're saying that you don't feel connected to your inner childhood, that it doesn't come out. I want to share a story with you that I've shared before, but when we went to. So Matt came to visit here in Toronto. I live in Toronto. Matt lives in Calgary. Last summer, came to visit and one of the things that I really wanted to do was take him to Hanlon's Point beach in Central island, which was a nice space in the city where you can kind of get away from all the cars and noise. And I knew Matt would appreciate that. And it's one of my favorite spots. So we got off the ferry at Hamlins and it's a, it's a, it's an island that has a lot of those giant weeping willow trees and just giant trees in general because it hasn't been developed. And so we're walking down the path to go to the beach and Matt sees a, a tree, a really big tree. And like a child would like a little five or six year old child, you, like ran like hopped and skipped to this giant tree and you gave it a big hug. And in that moment I was watching you and I was like, this is that, is that was your inner child, 100% alive and well and I don't know. At first I thought, oh, look how small. I think I took a picture of it. Look how small Matt looks compared to this tree. But as you're talking, I'm like, oh, my gosh. It's small because it's his inner child. Like, it actually makes it look like a child is hugging this giant tree just because of the scale. And for the rest of that day as well, Matt, like, at the beach, I think our inner children, if both of us were friends at that age, we would have had a really good time at the beach, just as we do now as adults. But that side of you, I think, was. Was alive and well, and I witnessed it, and I got to observe it. So, you know, I do want to acknowledge that part as well.
• 33:15
  Speaker B: Thanks, guys. I appreciate that. All right, so what does inner child work mean to you, and how have you done this type of work?
• 33:32
  Speaker C: I think you just did some.
• 33:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, for real?
• 33:36
  Speaker C: I think we just did it.
• 33:38
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 33:38
  Speaker B: I'll just witnessed it.
• 33:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. Isn't it funny, too? I feel like we're. We're doing it.
• 33:45
  Speaker C: Yeah.
• 33:46
  Speaker A: All the time. I'm on this podcast publicly, you know, and on these community calls and in this group and outside of it, like, just all the time. You know what. What came to me? See this green wall? When I moved into this house, I was formerly in, like, the smallest room in the house. And through much conversation and contemplation, I ended up moving into the biggest room in the space. And when I came into the room, I saw the white walls, and I thought, I want to paint one of these walls. I want a feature wall in this room. And I remember feeling all of this, like, visceral resistance to painting a wall. And the narrative was, well, a, we don't need to move into this room, and B, we definitely don't need to paint a wall. We're not going to get too comfortable because we won't be here for very long. There was all sorts of other stuff coming up, and I remember I knew exactly what was going on as a pattern. You know, don't get too comfortable. When I was. When I was young, I. I shared a bedroom with a sibling, like, all through my life. Like, I did not have my own room until I was an adult, actually. And. And so I didn't really know what it was like to kind of, you know, like, in some ways, I kind of knew what it was like to adorn my space. Like, I remember when I was young, kind of having a Mickey Mouse picture and Mickey Mouse blankets and Stuff like that. But I never had my own room, so this was a big deal. And I. Throughout the entire process of, you know, selecting the paint and the color, to coming in the room and keeping the trim and, you know, preparing the wall, I had to talk myself through it. And there was a. I literally had a conversation. There were tears, there was emotion, there was resistance. And I just remember saying, like, hey, dude, like, aren't you so excited? You have your own bedroom, your home now you get to settle in. We're going to pick out a color that you absolutely love to paint your wall in. Your wall. This is going to be your room, you know, and it's okay. You can relax, you can settle in, you know, you're okay now. You're home now. Right? So it was this whole process because there was so much resistance to. To being at home in this space, to settling in. And so, you know, for me, that. That's like one of. One of the prime examples in my life of inner child work and. And how I've done it. And I think day in and day out, it's. It's having. Having the conversations and being in dialogue and in awareness of that aspect of myself and listening to, you know, we talked about needs and acting out, noticing when there are needs, noticing when, you know, when my inner child is acting out and meeting that with compassion and compassionate inquiry and curiosity, you know, what is needed here. And then, you know, as a parent would, especially a parent who's done the work, you know, doing what I can to meet those needs. Right. So that. That for me, is what that work has looked like. And then in addition to that, going back and kind of mining the parts of my past, those formative years for wounding and. And creating space for healing. An example of that being having uncomfortable conversations with my parents, you know, and sort of breaking up with them and. And. And then. And then coming back to those relationships interdependently rather than codependently, because, my God, there. I mean, there's so much there that's a whole other conversation, you know, so that, for me, is what inner child work has looked like in some ways.
• 38:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, love that. All that. Beautiful insights.
• 38:33
  Speaker A: Thanks.
• 38:34
  Speaker C: What I love about this work is there's so many different ways to do it, and there's so many amazing people, therapists, coaches, just anyone out there who has a lot to say on this. So I love the concept of it. And I would say to anyone out there, like, you know, who's listening and is interested in this, definitely look stuff up, because There's a lot of, of literature and material out there. So for me, I would say I was most. When it comes to inner child work, I was most influenced by the work of Susan Anderson. I don't know if you guys know who that is. She's a psychotherapist. She has a book called Taming your outer Child, which I read. That's probably my first introduction to, to this work. And basically the concept that, that she teaches, maybe other teachers teach this as well, I'm not sure. I just know that I learned it from her, is that there's an inner child which is, you know, like this version I showed of me who's like that, four to six years old, completely innocent. It's, it's you at your most vulnerable, completely dependent on other people, on your parents, on the adults in your life and, and fully innocent and at your most vulnerable.
• 39:32
  Speaker B: Right.
• 39:33
  Speaker C: And the inner child is really all about emotions and feelings, needs, desires and it. So that's why your inner child is, is innocent because your feelings can't be wrong, your feelings are valid. Right. And then she has this concept of an outer child, which I love, which is you at the age of, let's say preteens, like 10 to 13. And that's at the age where you have a bit more of an independent thought process. You're old enough to kind of say and do what you want, have a mind of your own, but you're not necessarily old enough to understand the consequences of your actions, which is why you need a strong, more disciplined parent perhaps to help you in that. And at that age, that's when we become a bit more egocentric, more self centered. You know, we're cognitively developing, but we're not quite making balanced, well thought out decisions. So we're impulsive and whatnot. Which is great because I'm like, oh yeah, my outer child certainly is the one that needs the disciplining. And then there's the adult self, which is kind of the part that reparents us, which nurtures the emotional child, like kind of soothes him and all his needs and fears and worries, but parents maybe with a bit more discipline, the outer child. So I learned this from inner, inner child, outer child, both concepts of like younger versions of you. And that helps me because oftentimes when the inner child feels, that's not the issue. The issue for me was when the outer child reacts because I was feeling from a place of inner child, but reacting from a place of, I don't know, impulsivity, wanting to just get my needs met immediately, in as fast as a way as possible. Acting out, being very self centered. And I was doing this. I still, this still shows up in me to, to this day. But especially before I had done this work, I was like, oh my gosh, this is exactly me. Like this kind of very impulsive self sabotage guy who was just wanting so much. The only thing I thought about was like my immediate needs and those like the immediate gratification kind of took over anything else. And it wasn't very. I wasn't pleasant to be around, as you can probably imagine. And I also wasn't. It wasn't pleasant to be me either. So for me, doing this inner child work and I'll share with you some of the different ways that I've done it had, had really helped me. So Reno had just done it. Now kind of having this visualization, talking to that self really helps. Having the picture and like really getting into like some of your earliest memories, be it. Be them positive or negative, just going back into that. What did that feel like? Like, you know, you talked about your. Your room Reno. It's a great one. Like going back to your childhood room. Like what were you doing in there? How did it feel? What was it like? If I had answered that question, I'd say my. My childhood was probably a lonely one if I had to pick one word. I'm the youngest of three. My older sister is seven years older than me. She. When my parents split, she went to go live with my dad when I was pretty young. So I didn't really have that older sibling, even though I had an older sibling. And then my. My middle brother is a stepbrother actually. So he only came to visit us every other weekend because he had shared custody with his mother. So I didn't get a lot of like. I basically had like an almost an only child kind of day to day situation when I was at that age. So yeah, it was a lonely childhood. So that's kind of the word I would use. So I learned to play with things that like my Legos and doing things on my own and reading books. And that's where I really developed that strong sense of inner mind that I felt safe in. So anyway, that's kind of how I would start doing that in our child workers. Visualizing it, looking at photographs and then asking yourself some questions. So I have a worksheet that I use that has like journal prompts and I'll share some of them with you. Some that I really like are. What was I most worried about. And how did I cope with that? What desires went unmet and how did I cope with that? So Matt had listed a bunch of them in the beginning. Some of those core needs, emotional needs, so you can even go through one by one. I think that's probably a good idea. And like, ask, you know, when did they go unmet and how did you cope? Another one is, what role did I play in my family dynamic? And then what was I rewarded for and what was I punished for?
• 43:48
  Speaker B: Can you put those in the show notes for?
• 43:49
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 43:50
  Speaker B: Would you mind? Yeah, because. Yeah, I'll use them too.
• 43:52
  Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let me just highlight that so I don't forget. Yeah. So those are some that I use. And I think that just that, like, even asking yourself that and then being in a space where, you know what, actually, if you're a journaler, like I am, and you want to write that down, put your picture of yourself in front of you, ask yourself these questions, connect with that version of you, and let it all out. That, to me, is probably one of the easiest ways to do this. This inner child work. And I'm. I personally, I like writing, but another way that works for a lot of people is role playing. So kind of taking on that parent role, Parent and child role with someone like the therapist to. To help you kind of go through that. Yeah. So those are some of the. I think the easiest ways that I would say inner child's work has. Has helped me.
• 44:37
  Speaker B: It's. It's really cool being led into your guys's world like this because, like, I did not know that about you, Michael. Really? Like a bull that you had. I didn't even know that you had siblings.
• 44:48
  Speaker C: Really?
• 44:48
  Speaker B: You were the only child. Yeah. Wow.
• 44:50
  Speaker C: I need tomorrow.
• 44:51
  Speaker B: And how old were you when your parents split?
• 44:54
  Speaker C: I was two. And.
• 44:55
  Speaker B: Okay. I didn't know that.
• 44:57
  Speaker C: Yeah. My sister went to go live with my dad when I was probably about. Let's see. Yeah. Around that age, seven or eight, maybe six or seven. Yeah.
• 45:07
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 45:08
  Speaker B: Interesting. And I related to you, Reno, in the sense of not being like, don't get too comfortable is such a familiar thing for me. So my parents split when I was, I believe, nine. And then for my 10th Christmas, my sister and I both got giant suitcases and we thought we were going to Disneyland. That's. We were both so excited. But they're like, oh, no, you guys are actually moving between houses. So I would every week. It first started out every week, and then we moved every two weeks and. And I would. I always was bouncing around, like, between homes. So I got really good at, like, having that feeling of, like, don't get too comfortable. And now that's probably why I'm such, like a homebody. And I'm very rigid and controlling around my home environment. Like, that probably plays into that. So, yeah, just, it's really cool. It feels like, you know, I feel like I see myself in each of you guys in, in a different way. So thank you for sharing.
• 46:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 46:12
  Speaker B: Okay, so maybe I will feel like I've already had a vulnerable share. Maybe I'll go into Coachy Kochi head. But I. I would say probably the. My answer to this would be like, reparenting. The holistic psychologist Dr. Nicole La Pera has a good definition of this. She says healing the inner child involves becoming a wise inner parent to ourselves that sees and hears our experiences without judgment. And I think that's the biggest one for me is like, inner child work for me. Like, I think I couldn't actually do inner child work properly until I, like, stopped blaming my parents and I started to take responsibility. Because I'm like, yes, all of these things were done to me. Yes. And I had a lot of anger and resentment about these things, and some of them were circumstantial. Nothing was done to me. But it was the circumstance of the family system and it happened. But I had to take responsibility for it. I have to. I'm the only person that can parent myself now. Right. And that for me was like an epiphany. So I. I started shifting away from victimhood and into taking responsibility. And then I was able to develop a relationship with my inner child. And, you know, I always say to my clients, like, don't meet your child, your inner child as a hot mess. You being a hot mess, trying to meet your inner child, because your inner child already doesn't trust you. It doesn't feel safe, and it's completely terrified. So you have to have some semblance of, like, feeling a little bit stable to, like, start approaching your inner child. And so I kind of. I broke it down into, like, three stages for myself, just doing some reflecting. And I think the first stage for me, well, I guess it's four stages. The first one's pretty easy, though. So set the intention. So I would say something like, I welcome a healing and empowering relationship with my inner child. Like, this is the very start, like, the intention. Set the seeds planted, and this is the work I'm going to start embarking on. Because I find that when we do that, we're then Working with like universal powers, God, whatever you want to say, like, these supports come in and we start to have dreams about our inner child. We start to have memories resurface. Like the intention is a very important part of this work. And then the reconnection stage can begin. So for me, that is, I started by personifying my inner child. So yes, photos, photographs were great and I had an altar with all my pictures on it and blah, blah, blah, all that. But for me, it was like I had to. I had to create this part of me as a separate part of me. I have my higher self consciousness. And then I had my inner child consciousness that I was working with. So then I can start the reparenting process. So I named him Matthew. I created an age where, where some significant wounding happened. And that was the age of the child I started to work with. Right. And then you can start to work with different Personas. You can work with, you know, teenage Matt or whatever. Whenever there was these things that took place. So I've done things like writing a letter to my inner child. Like Michael said, I love this one. Viewing a childhood photo of yourself and then journal on what it felt like to be that age. So I think you putting those prompts in the show notes will be so beneficial for people. And then find a photo and just start to be with the feelings that come up. That's tremendous. Healing can take place there and then engage in play or any activity you truly loved as a child. And I think that again, it brings us back to that innocence, that playfulness, and it reminds us, you know, I. I think I went through a lot of a period where I could only recall trauma. I couldn't even remember positive things from my childhood, like nothing. And all I. Everything at the forefront was the things that I had experienced as a child that were painful. And once I started to lift out these things and heal them, memories of positive things started to come in again. But I'm still working on this.
• 50:14
  Speaker C: This is.
• 50:14
  Speaker B: This has been very deep work for me. So those are some things from the reconnection stage. And then I would say, you know, and these stages bleed into each other. For me at least the next one is healing, the healing stage. So consciously exploring victimhood is important because we oftentimes some people can bypass victimhood, you know, and this is one that I did in my life is I. I took on the Persona of I have to be the parent I have to be. And maybe that's where my dad energy comes from, is like I had to grow up quickly. Like you, Reno. And I had to, like, you know, I felt like I had to take care of my mother when I was younger. So I didn't. I had to regress and go back to allowing myself to be the victim and to be angry and to feel ripped off and all of these things. And that was grief work for me. That led into a lot of grief work. I had to get clear about my fears. Still am, actually. This is a big one for me. Like, I. I had a core belief when I was younger that it wasn't safe to be scared. Right. And one of the most powerful mantras I'm using right now is it is safe to be scared. I said it to myself before coming on this episode because I felt scared about being visible today because I didn't want to be visible. And so I'm like, it's safe to be scared. Like, I'm, I'm safe to be scared. I don't have to put on a brave face. I can just show up and be scared. Right. And that was not an experience that I got to have when I was younger. So that's been an important part of my, my healing. And then one thing that's really cool, and I did this with a therapist. So inner child rescue missions, I call them. And it's going back to incidents that happened in your childhood where you didn't have control and you felt extremely terrified. So we go back as our higher self. I'm not going to share too much the specific example because it feels a little too vulnerable. But so I went in and I kind of was with my inner child in that instance and brought him away from that, that environment and into my bedroom and just literally spooned him and held him and cuddled him. And that was like a really beautiful, like, it's almost like I connected an energetic cord to my inner child of safety. So this rescue mission was really cool because the cord was loaded with. With fear. I was extremely terrified and I didn't feel like I had somebody there to support me through that. And then the showing up for yourself was important for me. So stop self abandoning. I learned to self abandon from a young age. And then I did this in my relationships, all my intimate relationships. I would just make my partner more important than me. And I lost myself in a lot of my relationships, so that was important. And I did that by learning about my needs. That's why I'm a huge advocate for that. I do a lot of that work with my clients is personal need development and, and understanding our subconscious needs. And then the last one here is the integration stage. So we, when we reconnect, we heal and then we integrate. And that's, I think this is an area, this is one I'm still really working on is the integration. And I don't know if we ever fully integrate and have this like perfect 100 perfect relationship with our inner child. I think, you know, we're always going to, you know, need to, it's like parenting, we're always going to need to be checking in and, and whatnot. But so this one involved for me dialogue with my inner child daily. So just checking in and hey, how are you doing? Like what's going on in this part of me always listen to my inner child. So that's my intuition. For me, my, my inner child is highly intuitive and when that part of me speaks like I have to listen because I'm usually pretty bang on. Like when, when that, that inner voice comes in. Constantly prioritizing my inner child's safety. That's how I've developed trust. Because I again I would get into relationships with men who were highly avoidant and didn't meet my needs and I would just self abandon. And my inner child learned that I wasn't trustworthy. So I had to prioritize their, my inner child's safety in order to redevelop trust. And for me some of this was shadow work too. Because my shadow, a lot of my shadows were things that I developed or, or you know, to I guess maybe even keep my inner child safe. So again anger was a part of my shadow and that was how I kept him safe. So I've had to do some of this work so I can soften because my inner child has been healing by letting people in and connecting with people. Right. Because a lot of my wounding over at with my inner child experience is like, it's not safe, people aren't safe. Hyper independence, isolate to keep yourself safe. Right. Well that's created a lot of lone wolf, a lot of loneliness and things like that. So yeah, I think that's pretty much what I wanted to share.
• 55:19
  Speaker C: I underline something but always. Yeah, I like that you had said the dialogue. I think, I don't know if it's just me, but I want to reiterate for everyone listening and watching, it's not just talking to the inner child, it's also listening like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I don't know if it's just me. Maybe I've been talking too much about talking and parenting stuff. But like that, that that inner child has a lot to say and it's important. And it's important to remember that and give it space to like, come back at you and then that's how you have that dialogue. So. Yeah, just another important reminder. It's not just one way communication.
• 55:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I just had major deja vu when you said that. That was so trippy. Like, I feel like we've had. I had this moment, so I must have dreamt this. And then. Yeah, that's pretty powerful. So what he just said is very important. Clearly you.
• 56:09
  Speaker A: You said something really fascinating. I never made the connection between the intuition and the inner child either until you just said what you said. And that's so beautiful because what I do recall, I know this in like every fiber of my being. Like that little. He was so intuitive. Oh, God. So intuitive. So intuitive and so empathic. It's one. But he knew what was going on always. Always. Probably more than he should have. But. Yeah. Wow.
• 56:44
  Speaker B: And that's. I think that's significant to, to be mindful of people that are sensitive and empathic. Like, childhood can be very challenging because we come in family systems that maybe don't have that and they don't realize how perceptive we are. And that's, I think, why my childhood was so challenging for me is because I could feel everything between my parents. I could feel the lies, I could feel the cheating. I could feel everything. Right. And it's like. So I knew things I shouldn't have known at that age. Right. Because I was highly intuitive. So. But it's. It's a gift now, right?
• 57:18
  Speaker A: Don't gaslight your inner child.
• 57:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
• 57:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 57:24
  Speaker B: Yeah. All right, so last question we have here is what have been some of the benefits of doing inner child work for you?
• 57:36
  Speaker C: Wow.
• 57:38
  Speaker A: Oh, you get to live in this beautiful, beautiful house in this big, spacious room instead of stuffing myself a shoebox because I'm afraid that I'm, you know, just going to be gone right away. Anyway, it's so interesting hearing your shares. I'm like remembering things in my own life. Like my parents separated when I was, I think nine or 10 as well. And I was, you know, back and forth between their homes as well. And there was just. There. Yeah, there was a lot of moving around and there was a lot of instability. And so I think, you know, one of the benefits is like, not only have I created stability and safety and environments that meet my needs around me, you know, whether it's my room or like the gay men's brotherhood or the Recovery 2.0 community, or, you know, the body electric community, wherever. But it's like I have. I have externally and then internally created environments where I experience love, safety, belonging, you know, opportunities for connection, opportunities for creativity, for play, for spontaneity, to express myself honestly and authentically. And again, I emphasize they're not just externally sourced. It's like I. I'm cultivating that space within myself, you know? So I think another benefit is I move through the world with increasing grace, ease, compassion, empathy, understanding, curiosity, authenticity, courage, wisdom. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. It just like, it frees up so much, and I just. It's like, you know what, the phrase that comes to mind is like, I am free to be, you know, like, just be. Oh, what a relief, you know, and not. Not every day and not in every moment, right? But. But more days than not, more moments than not now, you know, So I think those. Those are the benefits. The benefits are that I get to, like, where would I want to wear, you know, that if. If it occurs to me, if I feel in my body that there's a call to adventure and play, that I can just go downstairs, pull my bicycle off the rack, you know, and like, throw a backpack on and jet off to the. The beach and just go play, you know, and hang out at the beach and swim, you know, that, like, these are the benefits. It's just like, like I said earlier, like, increasingly, we're homies now, you know, it's like, yeah, cool. You want to go to the beach? We've been sitting in front of the screen all day. Go. I hear you. I hear you. I. Sorry, I've been ignoring you. Let's. We gotta go. Let's go. We're going. Yeah, we're going. Yeah.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker B: I love that. I'll be in. I'll be in Vancouver in the summer, at the end of summer, so we'll have to hang out.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker A: Stop it. Really?
• 1:01:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker A: So excited. That's all. Yeah.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker C: I. I love that you had talked about play because that, I think, has been one of the most biggest impactful byproducts of inner child work that I didn't see coming. I didn't set about doing this work to become more understanding of the part of me that needs to play and wants adventure. But I will say that has been a wonderful byproduct because I honor that part of me so much more now, whereas I didn't used to. And I think a lot of adults do that. As we turn into adults, we just forget that play you stop prioritizing it. And I don't think that's fair. Like, according to who?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker B: Right?
• 1:01:52
  Speaker C: And for me, play is very creative. And it's usually something I do on my own, but I can do with others. And so I think honoring that inner child. And Reno, you said it perfectly. Like, when it's time to go to the beach, for me, it's the same thing. Or hop on my bike. I don't shoo shoo that. I don't poo poo that. I, you know, I treat it like, okay, like, is there something that I actually need to do today right now? But am I like, you know, foregoing any of my commitments or whatever? And if the answer is no, then f it, let's make time for it. Let's make space for that inner child version of me that wants to play and have fun and do these things to do that. So I think that has been probably the biggest byproduct that I didn't see coming. But I'll also talk about the byproducts that I intentionally set up to, I guess, accomplish through doing this work. So if you recall, I said that I had started doing my inner child work because I was the reason, the reason why I started on that path was because I was acting like a child as an adult. And I was like, why am I doing this? Why am I acting out, self sabotaging all these things? I called it self sabotage. And I guess in a way it was. But I kept saying, I want these things. And I kept doing all this behavior that was going completely against it. And so that's kind of what got me on the path. So the biggest benefit is that it got into my brain and figured this out. Like I got behind what was going through the self destructive behavior. Why was I lashing out? It all had to do with my emotional states. And then I wasn't processing them. I was still reacting out of this outer child, as she would say. Even though it was the inner child that was having the emotions, the outer child was really taking over my body and my actions and my words and wreaking havoc. So it allowed me to stop numbing my feelings, stop hiding from them, stop running away from them, stop reacting to them, and instead really truly process the pain or whatever it was. And. And it's usually going to be pain that's that's causing me to act out. So yeah, that has been a huge one. And then at the same time, you know, in that same vein is really, like Reno had said, creating a sense of Safety and security from within and learning how to do that, expressing. Not even expressing just first understanding what I need and want and then getting those needs met for myself. And then when I'm with other people, expressing that to them, not that they have to meet those needs, but I can at least say, here's. Here's my need. Please, please meet it. But if not, that's okay. I will be fine. And of course, the healing shame aspect of it, which I think Matt had talked about in the beginning, that core wound of that core or shame wound, doing that inner child work really helped me heal that. And, and that's all through that self parenting that Nat had talked about. I think it's really important that we do that with ourselves. But like I said, in the way that I. The way that I learned it is you want to nurture the inner child, but discipline the outer child. Because they're at those two different ages, they. They act very differently. One's very innocent, the other one is a little bit misguided in his. In his actions. At least mine was. So, yeah, I think in the psychology sense, what we're talking about here is creating new neural pathways to behaviors and habits that you actually want to have, not just reacting and responding from this place of letting your inner child take over and respond and react in a way that is not serving you, but more so nurturing it. Maybe giving yourself that love, kindness, respect, nurturing, soothing relief you didn't get. Yeah, it's reprogramming.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker A: That's.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker C: That's a short word for it.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, I like that. I dig it. What have been some of the benefits of my inner child work? I think probably the first one that I would say would be like, emotional maturity. That's been huge for me because I, again, like, I was regressing and like acting out in my relationships in ways that I was acting out to get my needs met as a child. So manipulating and getting angry and throwing temper tantrums, that was showing up in my early stages. So like probably a decade 15, anywhere from 10 to 15 years ago. Those relationships, very, very toxic, very inner child. Like, not a lot of consciousness that I was bringing into those. And then I started to do some work and it started to decrease a bit and I started to show up, but I was still regressing. I would go into trauma responses and, and a lot of fear. So the anger started to turn into fear and I would get really scared, and that was the anxious side of my attachment. And then I would pull away. That's the avoidant side of my attachment. And so that has helped. That's helped tremendously. I would say my Secure is probably 80 and 20, still disorganized. But yeah, this, this work, it's very, very slow moving for me, but at least it's happening right. Tortoise pace is better than no pace. And. But I will say my last relationship, my last two relationships that I've had have been pretty solid in that sense. I. I understand my needs, I advocate for them. I don't tolerate shitty behavior. And yeah, instead of unconsciously projecting, I'm like, I'm taking responsibility for myself. And that's been huge. So that's a big one. And I think for me, I would say, you know, it's been the needs work that has been tremendous, like going back into. And this is this again, this. Add this to your journal questions because this is a powerful one too. What on what needs went unmet for me in childhood? Because that's been like a golden question for me because I was able to identify what I felt went unmet as a child. And that is like, that's like hitting first 10 years of life is like hitting record. Okay. And everything's being recorded and then the rest of your life, it's playback until we start to do a lot of work to reprogram this stuff. So my unmet needs in childhood are my core needs now. They didn't change. They will remain that way probably for the rest of my life because that's what I was programmed into feeling like I need. So once those subconsciously, because they were a lot of them were subconscious. Right. I had a lot of wounding around not feeling no one as a kid. I didn't feel like I was ever known and I just turned it off. Well, I'm going to become so funky and weird and, you know, again, that's like this. Don't try so hard to fit in when you were born to stand out. Like, that was like my motto growing up. It's like, I don't need to be like anybody and I'm going to be a nonconformist and stuff. And part of that is conscious, but a lot of it is shadow energy that I'm like navigating now. And it's like, now that I know that that's a need of mine and I can go for it and I can advocate, like, yeah, I need you to know about me now. What I employ in my dating strategy is I employ, you know, I tell them the very beginning of our dating. I love it when you ask Me questions. And I will always reciprocate because I'm super curious. I ask a zillion questions. Going on a date with me is like a job interview. Sorry. But it's. That's just who I am. But I love getting that back. That's probably why I show up that way. So when people take an interest in me, it makes me feel no one. When I feel no one, I can soften and settle and. And start to trust. Right. So again, it's like me knowing I understand this need from inner child work. And then the reparenting process starts to take place, and you feel, okay, this. It's actually okay. It's safe to have this need. You go for it. You get the need met, and it starts to create safety in the environment. Right. So I just say that's the biggest one for me. Like, it's been. So my relationships have dramatically improved since I started doing inner child work and understanding my needs. And, yeah, it's been good. It's been very good. Any parting comments for y'?
• 1:09:50
  Speaker C: All?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker A: I mean, I could say this about probably every conversation, but, like, this was a personal favorite. It just feels like this conversation for me, this, like, arena, it's so much fun. And it's also just so, like, juicy and dense and nuanced, and I feel like we could. We could go on and on about work, but it has been so delightful and so, like, insightful to. To be in this conversation with you and. And, yeah, Yeah. I think I'll just leave it there.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker C: I'm imagining in some plane of some universe out there, the three of us at this age are all playing together right now while the adult versions of us are talking about them.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker A: 100. That's. You know what I just saw? This is so adorable. I saw, like, the three of us as, like, dads and then, like, those three little guys just, like, playing while we're hanging out and watching them play.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker A: Beautiful image. It's so wild.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, that is wild. You know what would be fun? And we should do this in the gay men's brotherhood. So this is your shout out to come join us in the game and brotherhood. But we should do something where everybody posts a picture of their inner child and tells, like, a story. Or maybe we have question prompts and it can be shared in the brotherhood space. I think some great healing could. Can you make note of that where you put the notes for the journal? Because I want to. Yeah, I think we should do that.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker C: That is the theme of the month. That is the theme of the month for October is inner child. So that makes perfect sense. And we'll put that. Because we have the journal prompts every Wednesday.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker B: That's right, yeah.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker C: So we'll do that on Wednesdays. So join us on Wednesdays and share your. Share your photos and share with us your. Your do your own inner child work with us.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I'd love to see little photos of people and I think that would actually soften our community a bit because I know in the Brotherhood space it can get really aggressive and it can, you know, there's a lot of intensity. So one of the strategies that I employ when I'm in conflict with somebody is I try and visualize or imagine them as their five year old little, little, little boy or little girl. And for me that's just like, it's a way to soften. And I think it would be really beautiful for everyone to see that there's a little child inside of each of us that is terrified and just trying to get their needs met and doing their best. And if we can see people through that lens, I think the world would be much softer and more, more empathic to each other. Right. Or empathetic to each other.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker A: So that's so beautiful. Wow. And I think it also, it also like reframes how we're, how we're meeting people. I know a lot of people are out there like looking for love and looking for partnership. Right. And I just think what you just described, that softening and seeing those images maybe helps us come in with a different energy or desperation or what, you know, all that stuff that we bring with us, insecurity is just like, yeah, human. Human, you know?
• 1:13:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I love it. Okay, so, yeah, come and join us over on the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group. If you're watching on YouTube, please leave us some comments. We love getting your guys's comments and we're starting to get a lot of comments that it's hard to respond to all of them, but we try our best. We do. And if you're watching on or you're listening on your favorite podcast platform and you liked what you heard today, then please leave us a few. A five star rating because it helps with visibility and getting us out there. And you can basically learn about everything that we're offering in our community through Gaiman's Brotherhood.com and if you wanted to get the Zoom Hangout information emailed to you, just sign up for our email list because we email out that on there as well. So thank you. Guys for holding space today and for sharing from. From your heart. It really. I felt held by you guys today. It was an emotional episode for me. So I really do appreciate vulnerability, and I appreciate you being able to hold space for mine as well. So I love you guys both so much.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker A: I love the shit out of both of you so much. Yes.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker B: Thanks, Reno. All right. Okay. Well, until next episode, y'.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker A: All, Bye. Thanks, everyone.