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How to Build a Coaching Business With Purpose · The Expert Method

• speaker-0: Welcome back to Systems of Scale. I'm Ian Gatsky. In today's conversation, I'm joined by Dr. Patrice Carter, founder of Breakpoint Coaching Collective. In this conversation, we get into how our 12 week program is structured week by week, why she starts with the hard work before she gets into the business stuff with her clients, and how she helps new coaches get clear on who they serve without getting stuck in comparison or the market is saturated thinking. We also talk about the tension of building something that's both a ministry that delivers value and creates change in the world, with like that being the focus and the priority, and is also a marketplace that brings in revenue and makes you money. And what she changed about her program that gets people to actually finish and do the work. If you're new here and you get value from this conversation, hit subscribe and share it with a friend. And now here is my conversation with Dr. Patrice Carter. Dr. Patrice Carter, thank you for being here. speaker-1: Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited for our conversation. speaker-0: At Breaking Point Coaching Collective, it is so much more than just a certification, right? It really sounds like a transformational process to go through it and become a coach and certified through that collective. If someone joins your 12 week program, what does the journey look like moving through that process from week one all the way through to completion? speaker-1: It's absolutely a journey and I love that you added the word transformation because it is a place I believe that the coach themselves are transformed and that's the very thing that if they're going to give to their clients. So from the time they start week one they hit the ground really in a personal development framework if you will because one of the very first questions I ask in that module so there's 12 modules or weeks if you will is what's on your mind? And the reason I asked them what's on their mind is I want to know what they're thinking, how are they feeling? Are they afraid? Are they nervous? Are they confused? You know, and just really understand, you know, what's their frame of mind coming in so that I can speak to that. And then from there, from week 12, I also understand kind of where they are and what they're thinking about. The next phase is really just a building block. So week two, they are planning out their coaching schedule. They're setting up their coaching platform where they plan to meet clients. Week three, they get into the actual process of working with live clients and practicing. have break weeks built in. Yes, I have break weeks built in at weeks four and eight. And then around five, six, seven, and nine, that's where they're really doing the mission and vision building, formalizing their business, social media, websites, the whole nine yards. And so I feel that it's very robust in that sense that it's a parallel process. So week one, they're learning how to coach using the model that we present. And they're also building their business alongside of that. So that by the time they finish the process, they are a certified Christian-like coach, but they also own a fully established coaching business. So they're ready to hit the ground running and start making money as a coach. speaker-0: I love how you set up the first couple of weeks to get them, you know, week two, they're already in a coaching call. They're coaching somebody, right? They're practicing the skill. They're developing the skill. One, think that's amazing to kind of, you know, weed out the people that it's just not the right fit for, right? Like if you wait until week 10 before you actually get on a coaching call where you're coaching somebody, it's like, man, I just spent 10 weeks building out this whole foundation for something that I don't even really want to build. Or now I have this new format and how I want to coach. that I wouldn't have known until I actually got out there and did it. Doing the thing is the only way to learn how to do the thing and you're getting them to do the thing right away. I think a lot of coaches that I've talked to and a lot of programs that I've been a part of probably would have put the mission, vision, foundation, website, all of that at the beginning, right? But you putting that near the end, is that something that you did intentionally? Like you wanted them out of the gates to kind of get in and start coaching. speaker-1: Yes, I wanted to do it intentionally because that's sort of how I started out in the deep end as a coach with no training. And so I felt the call in my life to become a life coach. And I started as a group life coach, nonetheless, working with women that were broken and that had come out of sort of the spaces that I had come out of, where there was a lot of trauma and abuse and suicidal ideations and all that stuff. around six. year six, year seven of me coaching, I actually became certified. And I realized something that you said early on, you said, it's important to have a plan. And so I had been just sort of flying by the seat of my pants, if you will, for like the first six years. And when I got trained, that was one of the ways that I was trained is that first you had to deal with yourself because if you're going to coach people or lead people in any capacity, you have to have yourself down pat. You have to be solid. And from there, understanding the process of how to work with a client. Because I was initially in my training when I was going through it, I just wanted to know how do I make money? And the coach that trained me was so frustrated with me constantly because she said, it's so much bigger than you just making money. And she was absolutely correct. So that's why I don't start with the business building piece first. I start with the heart piece first. speaker-0: Yeah, what's on your mind? That idea of you serving the previous versions of who you've been before is something that has come in in some of the conversations that I've had with coaches, which I think is a brilliant idea. It's very simplified, very well said. It's a lot of the big question, right? That somebody who wants to start a coaching business feels called or inspired to help others through coaching of some kind. The first, the natural first step is, okay, who, who do I coach? Who do I help? What do I help them with? Like one of the gold mines of opportunities for you is to look back at the previous versions of who you were and now you've kind of grown out of. Like for me, right, maybe it's the person who's just graduating college, doesn't want to enter corporate America and wants to try their hand at starting a business, right? Because I was that person and I went through that path. But like, who were you previously? And then you can find people like that and coach them through the same journey that you went through. speaker-1: Absolutely, 100%. And then you find yourself coaching every evolution of yourself. At least that's been my experience, you know, in a really amazing way. speaker-0: That's amazing. So yeah, as you continue to grow, right, you grow to newer versions of you, three years from now, you'll be able to coach who you are today because you've grown out of that. Which is really exciting. by developing yourself and continuing to improve who you are and reach higher ladders of whatever that ladder looks like for you, not only are you improving yourself, but you're also opening up more opportunities for yourself of more people that you can serve. speaker-1: Amazing. speaker-0: Amazing. I love your idea about doing it for the money. You're not going to last. If that's your why, if that's your reason for doing anything, really, it's not going to last. Like you're going to, you're not going to be able to endure as long as you have to endure is what I've learned in my small anecdotal experience. Anything that I'm doing for money, I can kind of grit my way through it for a little while, but a year in, two years in, three years in, I'm going to get burnt out. Is that kind of your experience as well? speaker-1: Absolutely, because I've had times in the business, so now I've been doing this for 16 plus years, but I left my full-time five-figure job that was going to become a six-figure job to do this with no evidence that it was going to work. And so to your credit, to what you just said, absolutely 100 % can attest to the fact that the money will not you. Now it will keep the bills. Of course it helps, but there are times where I've had $10,000 months and $0 months. Those were not the things that kept me going. It was the transformation. It was seeing the coaches growing. It was hearing that they got customers, that the thing that I taught them or that they learned through the process worked. The breakthroughs that they have. So the why that gets me up in the morning really is just to help coaches be the very best they can be and to say yes to the vision that they have and to be able to serve the people that they're called to serve. That's the thing that really lights me up. So yes, I do want to make money, but again, I agree with you that it's not going to. It's not going to be, I don't know, it's just not going to be that key in the lock for a lot of people. speaker-0: It's just not going to give you the fuel that you need to push through the hard times, right? You have a couple zero dollar months in a row. If you're doing it for the money, you're going to be like, why am I doing this? This isn't, I'm not getting any money, right? But you're having the impact, right? speaker-1: Yes, absolutely. speaker-0: Absolutely. It was a great book about that Simon Sinek's start with why, right? Super popular book, but he just lays out the blueprint of dozens of different businesses and how they've grown to the size, grown to be so successful. The common theme, the common thread across all of them is that the founders, the creators of those businesses started with why they were doing it and it was never to make money, right? It was to have some kind of impact to help some people solve some problem in the world. But you said something really powerful there where You left a five-figure, soon-to-be six-figure business to do this without any evidence to support why it would work. Why did you do that? Why did you make that seemingly from the outside a rational decision to go take this big risk of taking this bet on yourself, Dr. Patrice Carter, to go figure this out? speaker-1: So I did it because I felt like by faith that that's what the Lord that I serve was telling me to do. But I've always been that person. I've always been that person that wanted to help people, that wanted to walk with people and just really see the very best come through for them and break through for them. For all of us, I want to see us all win. I really do. And I don't have hidden agendas with regard to how I show up for people. So that said, ⁓ about 17 years ago, I was working as a government contractor for a mental health contract and I hated every single day of that job, but the pay was just stellar. Like the pay was amazing. It was the height of my corporate career. We would go to Germany. I was flying to Europe every year, but I promised I would get on the floor every day in the bathroom and beg the Lord please fire me from this job. And so the reason that I'm left is because it just wasn't fulfilling. I would literally watch grown men cry, soldiers. because they had PTSD and combat stress and they couldn't get relief. Like that they would come to me through this program because they weren't sleeping. They were having PTSD and combat stress as I shared and all the program was doing was just medicating them. wasn't like giving them a pill. And I just hated that. And I just knew that there was a better way that maybe if they had coaching, if they had mentorship, if they really, of course therapy for PTSD and those types of things that. There just had to be a more holistic approach. And so I feel unfulfilled more than anything that this was just a band-aid and there was nothing that was, I was not going home fulfilled every day. I just felt like I was just making it worse. So when the opportunity presented itself for me to leave and to step away, I jumped at it. But I laughed when you called me Dr. Patrice because I had just in that same vein of time got completed my PhD. And I remember one of my parents, my mother specifically sitting across from me at the table and she said, you have a PhD and you want work and that's just stupid. And so I'll never forget her saying that because she sees entrepreneurship as a job or a thing, you know, and that's their era and that's fine, they're traditional. So there were a lot of, you know, emotional, mental, I had to overcome taking that risk, but Yeah. I decided the best. speaker-0: I love it. You exude confidence. You exude that self-belief. Where did that come from? Like, where did that come from? Where did that idea of, because for you, right, your parents didn't, doesn't sound like entrepreneurship is really a path that they ever even considered. So how were you introduced to this idea, this wild idea that, I can go do something on my own. And where did that self-belief come from? speaker-1: So I have a twin sister who I think could sit on stage with the Sharks, with Damon and Mark Keegan and all the... And so she's 14 minutes older than I am and she was always ahead of me. She was the entrepreneur first, she would try anything and she was not afraid. And so just having her to watch, that helped me. And of course she was willing to share her best practices and do's and don'ts. Also having a husband who was my business partner here at Breakpoint Coaching, be the wind beneath my, we are partners in life and business. So that was helpful. But I'll tell you, Ann, a lot of things I did scared. I was terrified, but I just, I thought in my mind, I decided one day, I'm marketable, I can always get a job. I mean, I have a PhD, I can go teach somewhere, like I can get a job. And so, kind of like the fault, like if this doesn't work. I can get a job, but I owe it to myself to try. And so there's a scripture that I do use, if I'm being honest, it's called Philippians 4.13, and it says, can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And so I just kept that in front of me every day that I sat down and I did it afraid. speaker-0: Do it scared. I love that. You did it scared. And that's what's required. There's going to be scary moments. There's a lot of uncertainty when it comes to doing something on your own. Right? The whole nature of it is uncertainty. Right? Everybody talks about the freedom of being an entrepreneur, the freedom of building a business on your own, but nobody talks about the flip side of that where there's nobody telling you what to do. Right? There's nobody telling you what the right next step is. There's no guarantee. Like you have to go out and make whatever's gonna happen happen, right? It's on you at the end of the day. But when you said that, that really struck a few chords in my own story where a lot of late nights just being scared, right? Scared of different things. speaker-1: Yeah exactly how are gonna pay mortgage how are we gonna pay the light speaker-0: Yeah, it's intense. It's intense, but you, it forces the growth, right? It forces the growth required. Yeah, there's a great quote that it's like, entrepreneurship is personal development wrapped in capitalism. In order to get to the next stage of your business growth, you need to grow first. But I also love how you, you mentioned, right, that self-belief came from your sister, right? She kind of blazed the trail. She showed you, hey, this is possible. You saw her doing it, which made it kind of broke down the mental barrier, the mental block that you might have had about like, ⁓ this is possible. We're twins. She's doing it. I can do it. And that reminds me a lot about how I would imagine a lot of your clients in Breakpoint Coaching Collective probably feel when they enter, right? A lot of them might come in not knowing what coaching really looks like or what that really means. But when they get into your program, they see other people just like them starting out. They help from people like you and the other facilitators that you might have in your program and all the content that you provide. I think that kind of breaks down those mental barriers. And I think that's just a testament to the value of coaching, right? You get to see other people doing it alongside you. And then also the trail is already blazed, maybe is the right thing to say for you. They kind of show you exactly what you need to do. And it takes a lot of the guesswork out of it. So coaching and mentorship was of huge value for me in my own journey. Cause doing it alone is scary, is lonely. But when you have somebody kind of putting their arm over your shoulder, showing you the way, it makes it a lot easier. speaker-1: I speaker-0: Going back to where we left off, mission, right? Mission and your why. So that's something that I've spent hours trying to work on, right? It's a very ethereal kind of concept, right? Figuring out your why, figuring out your mission, why you're doing what you're doing. How do you guide your clients, your coaches that you're coaching through uncovering their why or their mission? speaker-1: So when I was talking about my sister helping me and that type of thing, and even the coaches coming in, there can be this comparison of, there's so many coaches, is there room for me? But guiding coaches to their why and their mission, you touched on something else. You talked about coaching and mentoring. One of the main things tenants that have to do is help them to understand that coaching, at least the way that I train it, is not mentoring. Faith-based coaching is really asking and listening, asking powerful questions. listening to the client, listening to the Spirit of God, listening to ⁓ even the coach, like being introspective and just giving the client that space to speak. Whereas mentorship is about telling, it's about leading, it's about discipling, if you will. And so I have to really help them understand the difference coming in because I'm teaching them how to ask and listen. And a lot of them struggle with that because they're used to being in their own rights, professional leaders and Leaders want to tell, leaders know what, they know information. And so that piece has to happen. But then helping them uncover their why sort of goes back to something that you touched on in the very beginning of our conversation, which is if you look to your own life as a mirror and as a mind, when I say mind, like you're going to dig out that gold and really mind those places that you've been, that person that you've been, I believe that gives you. evidence of who it is that you're called to serve. Now everyone might not agree with that and it's not 100 % true all the time, but it is true a lot of the times in my experience. That and then what people are passionate about. They don't just come into the program like there's an interview process, a discovery process whereby I ask them questions. And one of those things specifically is who is it that you feel called to serve? Who is it that you feel called to coach? And oftentimes people are very clear on you know, on who that is. So I believe that helps guide them into even forming their business and their mission statements. So what I do find mission-wise though is that the coaches tend to write very general mission statements and very general vision statements. But I think, and this is just me, that as a business person, as an entrepreneur, I feel that we should be very niched about who it is that we're called to serve so that when that person reads about me, they know I'm their person. So everyone is not going to coming a Christian life coach. But for those that are faith-based and they want that, they know that this is what the program offers. So that's why I think it's important you be able to say specifically, this is I serve so that person can hear it and see it and know it and gravitate towards it. I think one of the modules, week five, they start drafting it, but by week nine, they're refining it. speaker-0: That's great. I think when you were talking about who do you feel called to serve, like I immediately started thinking about, in my gut, like my intuition, I've always loved working with other people who want to take the leap into entrepreneurship and then just kind of coach, but I feel like that's going to be different for everybody, right? Like for somebody that's going to be, I've always loved working with new fathers, right? Helping them enter this world of fatherhood and acclimate to that, right? They have to kind of give up this. identity of who they were before they had kids. Granted, I don't have kids, so I don't know what that transition looks like. have you found that it's oftentimes like the people that are called and do have that deep rooted why are the ones who kind of just have had that gut feeling for a long time of these are the people that I feel called to serve? speaker-1: I do. hear that all the time that even I have a YouTube channel, right? And so that's how a lot of people find me. It's one video in particular, and it's four ways to know if you're called to be a Christian life coach, something like that. And it's had like thousands of views and people always say in the comments, I feel led to do X, Y, and Z. I've always been told that I should be a coach. These are the people I feel led to serve. Like they're so clear on it, but they don't have, they don't know how to start or they don't have a path. But I love something that you shared as far as like what your role is in the world and your place in the world. And that is letting people that are your age know you don't have to go to college. You can blow it up as an entrepreneur and as a podcast. And I'm sure I'm on the way on that. So I love that. speaker-0: I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. I hope I can help other people do it. think that, you know, kind of off topic, but I think the dynamics of things that are happening in the world, you know, with artificial intelligence and with, you know, the average number of employees per million dollars of revenue and organizations going down, right? Obviously that's creating job displacement, job loss. But my optimistic by nature default to that is like, I'm excited that people are going to be put in a situation where they have to figure out how to create their own value in the world. right? AKA start their own business, create some value, right? Go out, solve a problem for somebody. So I think a lot of people are going to be put in a position where they have to figure out how to create their own value in the world. And I think the only way to really create an enduring business is to really care about and enjoy the work that you're doing or the problem that you're solving. And I think the happiest people on the planet are the people that do what they love. I think the happiest people on the planet are the people that wake up every day and are excited to get better at what they're doing or excited to go out and attack the problem that they're trying to solve or serve the customers that they're serving. And I think when you really enjoy what you're doing, everything else comes as a byproduct, right? Financial success comes as a byproduct when you really just care and love about what you're doing. So with all of that, in summary, if all of those premises are true, I think that more people are going to end up in a situation where they're doing something that they love. which I'm excited about. Obviously it's going to be a pretty bumpy ride. We're going to need more people like Dr. Patrice Carter here, helping coach people through that journey and through that process. Cause we're never running out of problems. No matter how good technology gets, we're never going to run out of problems. And entrepreneurs are problem solvers. They build businesses, which are problem solving machines. If we were talking to somebody and you're talking about, you want to start a business, you need to get very niched, right? You need to be very focused on who it is that you serve. Number one, so that in your marketing and your messaging when people come across you, they know right away like, ⁓ you know, this is for me. When your target client stumbles across your work and across you, you're speaking directly to them, right? And I think it took me a long time to really commit to that, because it's like, well, like there was a lot of hedging. It's like, ⁓ I'm gonna do this person and this person and this person. It's like, no, I've learned that lesson. I'm probably gonna learn it again. It's like, you gotta just commit to one. Like this one person, I'm gonna... do everything I can to speak directly to them and help them. And then once you have that specific niche, then you can tailor and cater your service or your product or whatever it is that you're doing for them directly to that person. So then you stand out through specialization. If you're for everybody, you're just going to get lost in the noise of everything. speaker-1: And I believe that if there are multiple areas or multiple people that we feel led to, I see those as pillars, but then there's a time and a frame and a place for that as well, right? So I think it's important to do one at a time. So I have one of the coaches at Sample. She feels led to serve clients who have experienced parental abandonment, but then she also feels led to do career coaching. So it's like, how are you going to do the two? Right now she's having to figure that out. Like how am I going to, you know, bring that into a coaching business? And she can do it, but she has to position it very well so that it's clear and it's not confusing too. So that's another reason I think specialization is key is so that it doesn't confuse your audience. speaker-0: Confusing the audience is one thing, but if you want to talk to the pain that that coach is going to experience by trying to serve two different niches, like I experienced this firsthand with the marketing agency where we had like five different customers and like 10 different services and things. It creates an absolute operational nightmare when you try and create any kind of standardization in the process or in your product, right? As a coach, your product is going to be the content and the transformation that you deliver, right? That goes to help one person go from A to Z is A very delicate and complicated process, right? To get really good at doing that and do that predictably for people, you have to be really focused on that one specific journey and one specific roadmap. So trying to do two at one time is just going to create a, your product is going to fall. Like it's just not going to be as good as it could be if you were just focused all on one. Like in that example, if she was focused on people who have experienced parental abandonment and helping them achieve X transformation and career coaching, both would suffer because she's trying to do both. If she fully committed to one. she would get so much better at that one and the pie would just get much bigger because she's going to get better at what she does. speaker-1: It makes me think about people in Asian cultures, how they really master one thing. speaker-0: Absolutely and that is a big part of growing a business too is you got to just be able to endure through the boring stuff do the boring work speaker-1: Say it again. Say it again. speaker-0: Yeah, you gotta do the boring work, right? You just gotta show up every day. Yeah, absolutely. You frame the Breakthrough Coaching Collective as a ministry and a marketplace. So how did you structure Breakpoint so it can operate as a business while still stay aligned with what you believe is your cause? speaker-1: That is an amazing question and that was a huge struggle for me. So when I was leaving the business or leaving my job to go into the business, my husband asked me, he said, how are you going to do business and ministry at the same time? And I was so frustrated. Like I was mad that he asked me that because I didn't have an answer. And I had never heard the term marketplace ministry. So marketplace ministry is actually the thing. In the Bible, there are these different entrepreneurs. So there's the apostle Paul, who was a tent maker, and he was in business with his co-parts, Aquila and Priscilla, and they sold tents in the marketplace, and that's how they funded their ministry. Then there was Lydia, who made garments of purple, and she sold her garments in the marketplace. Peter, who was next to Jesus, and he was a commercial fisherman. So the first thing I did was I looked to my faith and looked to the Bible to see that, there are actually entrepreneurs in the Bible. So it's okay for me to make money as a person of faith and do business at the same time. So I was able to understand marketplace ministry. And so the whole point of me being a marketplace minister for what I believe for my life is I'm supposed to be positioned in the marketplace, in entrepreneurship, so that I can be a light that shines in dark places so that I can help people through my faith. while also making a living at the same time. And ⁓ by the way, I have permission to make money and I don't have to be poor. Even though Jesus went around, he wasn't charging people for his services. there are instances where entrepreneurship is, it's a thing, it's not frowned upon. So that just gave me even more confidence to go forward. But where I struggled in, to be honest, is I struggled to say, Jesus, I struggled to share my faith because I didn't want to be looked at as a Jesus freak. I didn't want people to be like, here she comes again talking about Jesus. You know, just sell me this product. don't care. So I really struggled to be myself, but now I own it. And so authenticity, I really work to be authentic. And that is authentically who I am, a person of faith who also loves entrepreneurship and loves helping people and getting paid to do it. So I'm focused on just being true to who I was. speaker-0: The ultimate differentiator, being you, being authentic. And that's typically what happens once you start stepping more in alignment with who you are and something that I've tried to do now with this podcast, right? Like this is gonna be the 20th episode of this podcast. If you go back and listen to the first three, you'll hear me sound like way more scripted, way more rigid, trying to stay super professional and like on script and I could just, I was uncomfortable, right? Like I didn't have the skill and I still have a long way to grow as far as facilitating conversation goes, but. I found that, you know, there's been more and more people listening as I've become like leaned into more of my authenticity, right? Try to take, less serious, right? Take myself less seriously, be okay with kind of stumbling and mumbling and whatever. But anyways, that's my own anecdotal experience in this one case of this podcast. But it sounds like you've had a similar experience where the more you lean into your own authenticity and who you are, you're going to start to see that you resonate with more of right fit people, right fit clients for you and your business. Mark Mawinni, if you go back and listen to the episode that I did with him, he said the same thing. Like he was doing email marketing for like six months, got very average or below average results. But as soon as he ripped the bandaid off, as he called it, and kind of ripped the filter off and started being more authentic to who he was, immediate spike in outcomes. speaker-1: And I believe that you kind of touched on it too with this whole, you know, we're in this AI, you know, this world of AI. And I think that a lot of people can hide behind that. You know, you even look at social media and how people are like creating their images and all that stuff. And this is like, well, who is the real person, which I love AI, I love computers, I love technology and all that. But I think that the person can get lost. And if I don't know who I really am or I don't show up as who I really am, I think that's going to translate. and the clients are gonna know. So I've met people that I've encountered on social media and then I've met them in person and they were not the same person and I was very disappointed. And so it's like, I don't wanna be that. I want consistency and symmetry when I go out in the world. speaker-0: Absolutely. When people join the Breakpoint Coaching Collective, they might see, you know, dozens of other coaches in the same cohort with them, or they see a lot of other coaches in there and they might think like, ⁓ there's too many coaches. Like, how am going to find the niche for me? Like, how am I going to get any clients when there's already thousands of coaches out there? Right? How do you kind of coach them through that belief of like, there's always going to be a market for you and who you help. If you really get true to who you are and who you want to help, if you really get specific. So how do you kind of. coach people through that idea of like, there's not too many coaches. speaker-1: I'm sure that I felt that same way, but I'm so far removed from it having been in it for so long, but I'm thinking, I mean, how many billions of people are there in the world? That's sort of how I approach them is from that macro perspective of you can't, if you lived your whole life and somebody else's, you would not be able to serve everyone. And so we are so needed because there are so many people that need help and there are not enough coaches to serve them. And... What I'm doing, what you're doing doesn't matter in the context of what that specific person has been. I can't serve your people. The people that you serve, I can't serve them. I don't have what you have, I don't have the expertise you have. I have the expertise I have to serve the people that I serve. And so that's sort of how I approach it. Using that one coach as an example who works with clients who have experienced parental abandonment. Thankfully, I've not experienced that, but she's a master. She's going to be a guru because she has the experiential components to that, plus the ability to coach now that is undeniable. And that's the group of people I'll never be able to. So it doesn't matter how many people are doing it. It matters that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. So that's one way I approach it in then going down to help them refine their target market. So that is one of the tenets that we. go through is who is it that you feel called to serve and why, how will they find you, where will you find them. I have them do a SWOT analysis, which is now called a TOES matrix. So I have them do a personal and business SWOT analysis. And when they reference their weaknesses and their threats, then I require them to determine how they're going to mitigate those so that when they graduate, you already have a plan for how you want to approach your weaknesses and your threats. speaker-0: Nice. I love how you break kind of that scarcity mindset. It's like, the world's massive, right? There's billions of people out there. You kind of break that down. And then if you just do the math too, right? There's a great book. I think it's called the dream 100, but the main core principle can be found outside of the book, but it's to build an amazing business coaching, product service, otherwise, whatever. You don't need thousands of clients. You really need like 100 clients that love what you do. 100 raving fan clients. If you can get 100 clients, you can have an amazing business. And there's no problem too small where you can't find 100 people to help with that problem. Right. And in the age that we live in, you can connect with absolutely anybody on the planet virtually. So I think that objection or that idea that the marketplace is saturated, there's going to be no niche for me. I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. If that's your belief, right? think there is a problem that you're uniquely qualified to help somebody solve. And again, the starting place is just kind of looking back at you, looking back at previous versions of who you were, the problems you solved for yourself, and how can you go build something that you can help others do it faster or better with less bumps and bruises than you to go through. But you have embraced this identity of the coach's coach, which I love it. So when you step back and look at your body of work and how you approach coaching coaches, What do you believe that you uniquely teach about coaching that others often miss? I think one thing that you had mentioned earlier is the differentiation between coaching and mentorship, where you teach your coaches to ask and listen. Is there anything else that other coaches who are listening might be able to kind of take notes on and say, ⁓ I could implement that into how I approach coaching. speaker-1: So one of the graduates called me the coaches coach. And so when she said that I adopted it from having been named that by another coach, so I didn't name myself just to clarify. But the thing that I believe sets us apart or sets me apart in that sense is when they come through Breakpoint, they are coming through a transformation. So they're not just coming to me or to us, to our company. to become certified Christian Life coaches, they're coming to us to become what they already were. And what already were, what they already are, and that is even beyond coaching and becoming a coach. so Breakpoint is a tennis term, which you may know that, and that's the point in the tennis match where everything shifts in your favor, or that person's favor. That's my goal at Breakpoint is for everything to shift in my coach's favor. The coaches that were raising up both personally and professionally. That is my personal desire for them. That's my heart's desire for them. And then the other piece that makes me the coaches coach for them is that they are not only learning how to coach using a model that we're giving them, they're also parallel to that establishing a business. And so I want them to be able to make a living as a coach from day one, from the time they come in and the time they graduate. And I don't know of a lot of programs that are doing that. speaker-0: And I think going back to the very beginning, the way that you structured your program, I think is brilliant in that you get them coaching at the jump, right? You're not spending a month doing work other than the main thing, right? You're doing the main thing from the jump, which is coaching. You're not building websites. You're not creating social media content. You're not doing any of that stuff. You're getting in and starting coaching from the jump, which I think is amazing. I think that's a unique design that other coaches listening could probably implement in some way. in their program, whatever their coaching program is, whether you're coaching other coaches, whether you're life coaching, whether you're business coaching, whatever that is, get them doing the thing right away. Absolutely. Yeah, 100%. If you like what Dr. Patrice Carter is sharing with us today, which I'm not sure how you couldn't, go check out Breakpoint Coaching Collective. If you're interested in starting your coaching business or if you have a coaching business, you want to learn how to become a better coach, I encourage you to check out that program. I've taken the time to look at what other people have said about their experiences in the program. It's pretty amazing what you've done and what you've built over there. So check out Breakpoint Coaching Collective, follow Patrice on social media. All the links will be in the description. Kind of one of the big problems that I'm working on solving right now is that in the info product space with books, with courses, with coaching programs, any information product, the product isn't the content, right? The product isn't the coaching calls. It isn't the book itself, right? The product is the transformation that you deliver to the people that you serve. And in order for the people that you serve to get the transformation that your product promises is for them to do the work that you assign to them, right? Do the work that you tell them to do. Right? So in Breakpoint Coaching Collective, that is, you know, all the work that happens in that 12 week program. Like they needed to do the work in order to get the transformation, right? If they just consume the content, nothing happens. And this is something that I struggled with for a long time with myself, right? With I'm a I'm inspiration reader, I highlight, take notes, bend page corners, show up to all the group calls, take the notes, whatever. But when it came to actually doing the work, I would struggle. So how do you structure your program or how do you get more people basically to just do the work that you assign to them, that you want them to do so that they get the transformation? speaker-1: I think one of the things you had asked me initially too was live versus virtual. So the course, initially I taught it live and it was a three month course. And then around COVID, I converted it to a digital course. So where it's self-paced and self-guided. But something about my personality, Ian, is I'm very much, I'm a finisher. I finish what I start. I want people to finish what they start. And so when they don't, it makes me itchy. Like I need you to finish. speaker-0: Yeah, right. speaker-1: So the way that I've tailored the program is that they finish what they started. And the way that I have gotten people to the finish line, I make sure that I get coaches to the finish line is I don't just lead the course to run itself. They are self-paced and self-guided, but they have touch points with me at specific parts of the program. So when they're at module three, five, seven, and nine, They are meeting with me doing live faculty mentoring. We're practicing their coaching. I'm answering their questions. I'm cheerleading them on. I'm praying for them. And we have very close relationships. So I build community. And I think that if you don't build community, you're not going to have a successful program or you're not going to have people complete the program. when people want, there was a time where people weren't completing it. And I just had to sit with my husband and my business partner and just talk about, what's keeping people from completing it. in the virtual course, like when it was live, it wasn't hard. We're meeting every week. You can't hide out. But that's where I found was missing. The missing piece was community and people were by themselves just kind of wandering around. ⁓ So they have to, from the time they come in to the time they finish, they know that I'm there. I'm not just, behind the scenes and they can text me, we can talk and they meet with me. speaker-0: that rhymes with a lot of what other people have shared. Because I think that client execution gap that just exists inherently with any information product, which is the gap between learning and doing and taking action, is a tough problem to solve. And it's something that is critical in this space. that accountability, having that accountability element where you're going to meet with me in two weeks, where I like, you need to get this done and we're going to meet in two weeks and it better be done, ⁓ kind of thing, right? But that for the coaches. speaker-1: They actually have 12 months to complete the work, but what I let them know is the program was crafted after a three month program and it can be done in three months. So I encourage them not to take that length of time. But I have had clients to, it was something that you said earlier, that have come in and they realized this is too much for me. Like I don't want to work this hard, you know, because it is like a college, it's a course. It was prudential at one point. So it's that level, it's a high level course. So they have to have. mindset. speaker-0: And that's the other thing. So it's like the accountability building community I think is absolutely critical, right? Cause you're to have the other people showing up, you know, celebrating their wins that they're experiencing, which is going to motivate the people in the course to be like, ⁓ nice. Ryan just got this big, huge win. He's he joined at the same time of me, right? Like, okay, let's go. This is possible. Like this, they're seeing it happen. They're celebrating the wins with other people. And like, I want to post in the community. I want to post my big win, right? So it's the motivating factor of accountability and community is huge. And then also creating a filter at the beginning. You're not going to let people in who are just going to kind of coast. You want every single person you mentioned earlier, right? This is, your why, your mission is to create this break point in these coaches lives that are entering your community. So creating a filter from the jump, like only letting people in who are going to be committed to doing what's required, the work required to get this outcome, to get this transformation are kind of like the two big elements that we've learned. speaker-1: and to be faithful to their own why. So if you were to come to and you say, is my why, then I own your why. I take ownership of your why. You like it, I love it. Love it, I got a hat. So you wanna go, I wanna go. So I take ownership too of what they want and where they want to go. that's very important. speaker-0: Hello. amazing. And then when you're on that call with them, right, and they're kind of going through a tough stretch, right, you can reattach the work that they're doing today to that why to that vision that they have, which is a critical business practice, regardless of your whether you're a coach, author, starting a marketing agency, whatever your business is, right, being able to attach the work that you're doing today to that bigger why or that long term vision that you have is pretty essential in getting through some of the the slog times, right, the boring work or the hard times. Absolutely. Patrice, thank you again for your time. This is a recurring question that I ask every guest. If you had a giant billboard that everyone in the world could see for 10 seconds, what would it say and why? speaker-1: Stop overthinking and just jump. Because I think people overthink so much, so often. What if this doesn't work? I mean, we will what if ourselves to death. Worst case scenario, what if. But what if it does work? And so I just want more people to jump, take the leap, and go for it. I mean, you have really inspired me. Like, you've re-inspired me to my entrepreneurial work because I am far, far away from it. And so in the hard months, this is a hard month, I'm encouraged that... You know, I'm reminded just talking to you why I did this. And I really want people to just jump. You can always go back and get a job. Remember that I said that. But stop overthinking and just jump. Just do the thing that sets your heart on fire. You never know where you're going to land. speaker-0: Amazing. We suffer more in imagination than we do in reality. saying. Yeah, 100%. ⁓ You can imagine everything that's going to go wrong, but you can also imagine everything that could go right. Anybody that makes that kind of disruptive of a change, right? Quitting their job and going to start something on their own, they're doing it because the vehicle that they're in, the current job, the current situation that they're in, they're not satisfied with it. Right? So the only way that you're going to change your reality, change the situation that you're in, The only reliable way to do that is not to bank on other people doing it for you through a job, i.e. a promotion, whatever that looks like. It's to go out, take the leap, take the bet on yourself, do what you can, try your best. Personally, I think everyone's capable of it. Everyone's capable of doing it. Everyone is capable of learning the skills necessary. But again, you can always go back. And that was kind of my negotiation that I made with myself when I was finishing up school. It's like, okay, there's all these jobs that are there. Those are always going to be there. Those are always going to be there. can always go back and get a job if this doesn't work out. Well said. Stop overthinking and just jump. Patrice, thank you so much for your time. speaker-1: Ian, thank you. You are so wonderful. I have had such an incredible time. God bless you. Thank you for everything. I appreciate you. speaker-0: Thank you for listening. Here are my three main takeaways from my conversation with Patrice. Number one, design the transformation that you want to deliver, not just the curriculum and the content. Patrice doesn't treat the certification like an information transfer. She treats it like a formation process and the structure that she guides her clients through forces her clients to get reps in doing the thing early on and find out quickly if they actually want to do this work. Number two, niche is clarity and focus, not a limitation. The moment you try and serve everybody, your offer gets blurry and your operations will get messy. It's gonna be really hard to create any kind of standardization if you're serving different people every single time. The best framing that we landed on was specialization creates signal and clearly communicates to the people that are right fit clients for you that, hey, I'm here for you. This rhymes with the classic 100 true fan idea where you don't need everybody, you just need the right people as your clients. Number three, completion is a product feature. When she saw completion drop off in the self-paced version of her program, she didn't blame the discipline of her clients. She added community and live touch points at specific points in the modules or within the specific points within her program. That's execution infrastructure to a T, which is what I work on building with coaches, similar to how great operators build accountability into the systems within their business instead of relying on motivation of the people that are operating within them. If you want to get connected with Dr. Patrice Carter and the Breakpoint Coaching Collective, you can find her links in the description of this episode. including her YouTube channel and program details. If you're an author, course creator, consultant, or coach, and you know your clients aren't following through the way that they should, download the free program execution engine toolkit in the description. It'll show you how to install execution infrastructure inside your program so clients actually complete the work you assigned to them, increasing retention and lifetime value. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you in the next one.