Latest / Found in Interpretation Podcast / Ep. 35 - Exploring the University of Ottawa's Interpretation Program

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Ep. 35 - Exploring the University of Ottawa's Interpretation Program · Found in Interpretation Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, hello and welcome to another episode.
• 0:02
  I found an interpretation podcast and once again I'm one
• 0:04
  of your Co host Alamogordo and I'm here at Brian.
• 0:06
  Brian, how you doing? I'm doing great, thank you, and
• 0:08
  I'm super excited. This is their first time having
• 0:11
  two guests on at the same time, so this is monumental for us.
• 0:15
  That's interpretation. So true.
• 0:18
  We're here with Dominique Manette and Elizabeth Marsman.
• 0:23
  How you how you guys doing? Very well.
• 0:25
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 0:27
  Alright, let's kick it. So first we'll talk Elizabeth.
• 0:41
  She's an associate professor at the University of Ottawa School
• 0:45
  of Translation and Interpretation.
• 0:47
  Her research explores how translation interpreters
• 0:49
  interact with technology, from terminology tools to pedagogy,
• 0:53
  with a special focus on users, perspectives and computer
• 0:57
  assisted methods. That is pretty current and
• 1:01
  Dominique brings the practitioner voices to the
• 1:04
  table. She's a seasoned conference
• 1:05
  interpreter for the Translation Bureau with experience that
• 1:08
  includes a three-year assignment at NATO headquarters in
• 1:11
  Brussels. Wow, that's pretty interesting.
• 1:14
  And she's been a cornerstone of the program teaching team and
• 1:18
  now serves as interpreter in residence until 2027.
• 1:24
  Did I miss anything? I don't think that.
• 1:26
  So that sounds pretty complete. So I'll kick off with a question
• 1:31
  that comes to mind here. Could you tell us the structure
• 1:37
  of the University of Ottawa Masters in Interpretation?
• 1:44
  So I'll take that one and get started.
• 1:46
  And Dominique, please chip in as you see fit.
• 1:50
  So we are among the more intensive masters programs
• 1:54
  because we pack all of the training into essentially 10
• 1:58
  months. So it's 3 semesters, very
• 2:01
  intensive. It's a 42 credit program, which
• 2:05
  means you do 4 practical interpreting seminars plus a
• 2:10
  documentation course in the fall.
• 2:12
  So we start with consecutive in the winter, you ramp up to 4
• 2:17
  practical simultaneous interpreting workshops, Blessed
• 2:21
  theories course to give you some background.
• 2:23
  And then in the summer, we wrap up with two more workshops in
• 2:28
  interpreting as well as a special topics course, which
• 2:31
  allows us to cover anything that seems particularly relevant at
• 2:35
  the time. So we've done technologies, so
• 2:38
  we've done pedagogy, lots of different aspects that may be
• 2:43
  relevant to a particular cohort. And then we wrap up with a
• 2:48
  practicum. So that's interpreting practice,
• 2:52
  about 5 to 10 assignments and finally a final exam.
• 2:56
  So by the end of June it is done and dusted and you are ready to
• 3:01
  you move on. So it's 10 months in total and
• 3:04
  then you can have a diploma in conference interpretation, a
• 3:07
  masters degree in conference interpretation.
• 3:09
  Right, which means it's extremely intense.
• 3:12
  It's sort of a full time. Job can you?
• 3:15
  Is it possible to do both like 1 and translation 1 interpretation
• 3:18
  at the same time? Or is it just too intense?
• 3:21
  I wouldn't recommend it, no. It's very, it's sounds really
• 3:24
  intense. I wouldn't either.
• 3:27
  Charlie, sorry. No, go ahead.
• 3:30
  So generally her students are in class in the morning and then
• 3:33
  the afternoon is really devoted to practice.
• 3:35
  So they're in the lab, they're they're doing exercises, they're
• 3:38
  working on their their skills. And, and we really do encourage
• 3:43
  them to see it as, you know, a nine to five where you really
• 3:48
  put in the work in the afternoon so that you're ready and
• 3:51
  developing your skills. And it's sort of all creates a
• 3:54
  nice coherent whole so you can really focus.
• 3:57
  Dominique, sorry I'm I'm sure you have lots to add.
• 3:59
  There I, I don't have lots to add, but I would just insist on
• 4:02
  the fact that yes, you really have to, you really have to
• 4:05
  focus on the program. If you do decide to do the
• 4:07
  program, it's important to understand that you, we really
• 4:11
  do need to focus on it. It's, it's quite short, short
• 4:15
  and long. I guess at the same time, it's
• 4:17
  10 months and it, it is a big commitment and we, we understand
• 4:22
  that and we, we really want everyone to succeed.
• 4:25
  Obviously that's our goal. That's everybody's goal, and so
• 4:29
  we really like to insist on the fact that people have to be
• 4:32
  ready. They have to be in a point in
• 4:33
  their lives where they're ready to dedicate 10 months to this.
• 4:38
  So I think I think that's that's important.
• 4:41
  Elizabeth was talking about the lab.
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  So one of the things I think that's really nice about our
• 4:47
  program is that we have a dedicated lab with booths and
• 4:52
  that lab is for the students. So we generally teach in the
• 4:55
  morning and then in the afternoon the lab is theirs.
• 4:58
  And they go back to the lab after lunch and they use it to
• 5:02
  either continue or redo sometimes the exercises that
• 5:06
  we've done in the morning or to carry out their work often as a
• 5:10
  group. So it's a really sort of nice
• 5:12
  cohort. It's a nice way for the cohort
• 5:14
  to work together. So they do that independently
• 5:17
  like Or is it should not supervised like?
• 5:20
  They can just go at their leisure and use the.
• 5:22
  Lab that is OHP that's independent, yes, correct.
• 5:26
  So they actually have a key to the lab and it is theirs for for
• 5:31
  the entirety of the program. Students are every year are are
• 5:36
  in the program because I from my own experience at a masters
• 5:41
  elsewhere, it was a very small cohort, at least in my language
• 5:47
  combination. So we do also tend to have small
• 5:50
  cohorts and that's for a couple of reasons.
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  So as Dominique said, we have the lab.
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  So there is a maximum of 12 spots in the lab.
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  So that's there are sort of hard limit, it would be 12.
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  However, we generally don't have 12 because the program is so
• 6:05
  intensive. We really pay very careful
• 6:09
  attention to the mission to make sure that we're trying to admit
• 6:13
  people who are ready to take on that kind of a, a really compact
• 6:18
  program. So we look at a number of
• 6:21
  different skills as students come in to try and make sure
• 6:26
  that they are as prepared as they can possibly be.
• 6:29
  So typically we've had sort of anywhere around 4:00 to 6:00 in
• 6:35
  recent years. We don't limit it.
• 6:38
  It's really the number of people who apply and we think are ready
• 6:42
  up to of course that that Max the small court means you get a
• 6:46
  lot of personal attention, which is really nice.
• 6:48
  And it's only English, French, right?
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  There's no other language combinations.
• 6:52
  Correct. Yeah.
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  So it's bidirectional English, French.
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  So that's that's another thing too.
• 6:56
  You have to really be very, very skilled in both languages.
• 7:00
  Yes, absolutely. What would you say is the
• 7:04
  biggest difference between your program at Ottawa and everything
• 7:09
  else that we can find? Or let's say there's some
• 7:11
  upcoming programs here in Quebec.
• 7:15
  What would be the main factor that makes you different?
• 7:19
  You know, there are a few. So we are with the sort of the
• 7:24
  original, not going to continue that expression, but we're the
• 7:29
  original. And so certainly we have a long
• 7:33
  history and one of the beautiful things about the program is the
• 7:36
  long history of our collaboration with the
• 7:37
  Translation Bureau and Dominicus a perfect example of that.
• 7:41
  So we have been very fortunate to have input from the Bureau
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  from the creation of what was first a graduate diploma and
• 7:51
  then a masters degree and to have, you know, practicing
• 7:55
  interpreters from the government joining us as instructors every
• 7:58
  year. So they are terrific guides.
• 8:00
  That means our students are well prepared for government markets.
• 8:04
  So that's something that we target, right?
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  We're looking at English, French and where we have very close
• 8:09
  ties with the government market so that the students are have
• 8:14
  the the background on the skills that are needed in that kind of
• 8:17
  context. So so when when is that?
• 8:19
  When was the inception of of the the program?
• 8:22
  Was it? Had to look back at that.
• 8:26
  The earliest mention that I can find is 1982 for the graduate
• 8:30
  certificate and it became a masters in 2000.
• 8:33
  So actually I did not realize that this is our sort.
• 8:37
  Of. Well, I guess it was proposed in
• 8:39
  2000, originally approved in or officially approved in 2001.
• 8:43
  So next year, I suppose will be our 25th.
• 8:47
  You don't like the younger version.
• 8:50
  Like I, I, I was thinking about your program back in 2005 when I
• 8:56
  was doing my bachelor's degree at Laval University.
• 9:00
  And that's when Mr. Gujjar, program director, he, he said,
• 9:06
  oh, you, you should go to Ottawa.
• 9:08
  And then, you know, I went elsewhere.
• 9:10
  I went to Tokyo instead, but that's a different story.
• 9:12
  But I, I've always wanted to know more about your program in
• 9:18
  Ottawa. And one thing that I'm that I've
• 9:21
  always wondered is so first of all, was the program lead to
• 9:28
  like, I think that the perception, and I'm not sure if
• 9:31
  it's real or not, but does the program automatically lead to a
• 9:36
  permanent position at the translation Bureau to work for
• 9:40
  the government or people can do your program and just head into
• 9:45
  the private sector? So what's the how?
• 9:48
  What? What do people do after that
• 9:50
  after your program? That's a great question because
• 9:53
  that has often been the perception.
• 9:55
  But they are two separate things.
• 9:57
  So you know, the masters is very informed and it is supported
• 10:02
  wonderfully about the translation Bureau.
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  And historically the vast majority of our graduates have
• 10:08
  gone to the government. But it's far from the only
• 10:11
  option. And some have gone into other
• 10:15
  organizations. For example, the Ontario
• 10:17
  legislature recent graduate chose to go there.
• 10:21
  The freelance market is also an option.
• 10:24
  I think the, you know, what comes out of our program and its
• 10:28
  ties with the Bureau is that that preparation in the
• 10:30
  grounding that prepares them for a government situation.
• 10:34
  But they are, you know, very separate.
• 10:37
  It's a close collaboration, but we're not an automatic entry
• 10:41
  into the Bureau. Dominic, I don't know if you
• 10:44
  want to comment further. Yeah, I'll jump in here.
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  And I wanted to sort of revert back to the previous question
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  about what makes the program unique.
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  I don't know if we can really compare at this point because
• 10:55
  the two new programs in Quebec are just starting.
• 10:58
  But I, I think we can talk about why we think our program is
• 11:03
  good. And so Elizabeth mentioned that
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  it's the program that's been around the longest.
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  It's also an in person program. So I think that's important.
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  The interestingly our admissions per process which I assume will
• 11:20
  be talking about later is actually online.
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  So that's virtual. So that just that opens that
• 11:27
  process up to more people because it used to be in person
• 11:30
  as well. So we've done that just to open
• 11:33
  that process up. But if you do, if you do get in
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  and you do commit to it, then you have to come to Ottawa in
• 11:38
  person. We believe that teaching and in
• 11:42
  person. And I think you you've talked
• 11:43
  about this in, in various podcasts.
• 11:47
  It has really does have an added value.
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  It really is in our mind the best way to teach this
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  profession. It's a short course and a long
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  course, as we explained previously.
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  And being in person and having the students be together in
• 12:05
  person and be able to work together is huge.
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  It is a huge factor for the success of our cohorts.
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  The Glendon College 1 during COVID and it was all online and
• 12:17
  it was hard. It was it.
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  It wasn't the same experience as, say, Alan, who was in
• 12:21
  person. Yeah, before COVID, the Glendon,
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  the program was entirely in in person, at least for the second
• 12:27
  year when when we're going to the lab.
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  But I think that your program still reflects that intention
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  that it's important to be always together in person, right?
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  Correct it it it really does. And as Elizabeth Elizabeth
• 12:42
  pointed out, where the, the teaching staff were all
• 12:46
  basically professional working interpreters.
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  And so that gives, that gives the students that knowledge,
• 12:55
  right, access to that knowledge. And on top of that, we often
• 12:58
  bring in other interpreters into our courses to either talk about
• 13:02
  a specific topic or to talk about their experience.
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  So students have a wide exposure to various working interpreters,
• 13:10
  which I give I think gives them an added plus.
• 13:14
  So I just wanted to say those things about, about the program
• 13:18
  and what, what makes it unique. And the freelance market is, is
• 13:23
  an option and there isn't accreditation exam that's
• 13:26
  organized by the translation Bureau and that leads to
• 13:29
  accreditation for freelancers. I see you have a question and
• 13:32
  just finish this and you, and, and then you can ask your
• 13:34
  question. And, and, and yes, for staffers,
• 13:39
  as a little Elizabeth said, and I think it's important to say
• 13:43
  because obviously people, people are wondering, historically
• 13:47
  it's, it's, it's hard to predict what the future holds, but
• 13:50
  historically a lot of our graduates have become staffers
• 13:54
  for the translation, Aaron, not all of them.
• 13:57
  And also, I guess getting back to what makes the program
• 14:00
  unique, it's, I would say it's a universal program.
• 14:04
  It's a universal and I'll explain conference interpreting
• 14:09
  program. So we have graduates who are
• 14:12
  working for the translation Bureau.
• 14:13
  We have graduates who are working for other assemblies and
• 14:16
  other provinces, but we also have graduates who are abroad.
• 14:19
  We have graduates at NATO, at the ICC, at the OCD.
• 14:26
  So, so we, we teach. That's what I mean by universal,
• 14:31
  universal skills, right? We're in Canada and we're in
• 14:35
  Ottawa, so it's important to take the the Canadian context
• 14:39
  into account, but the skills we teach can be applied anywhere.
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  What, what is, in your opinion, the most important skill before
• 14:51
  entering the program? Is it the language skills?
• 14:53
  Is it general knowledge? What's what's the the the the
• 14:58
  main thing that you're looking for?
• 15:00
  That's a great question. I'll, I'll answer it and then
• 15:05
  I'll let Elizabeth that add anything that I've I've
• 15:08
  forgotten. I'm glad you asked it honestly,
• 15:11
  because I think that people tend to focus on the linguistic
• 15:15
  aspect too much. Obviously languages are very
• 15:19
  important, but languages are are tools.
• 15:23
  They're they're tools and they have to be as sharp as possible,
• 15:29
  these tools so we can carry out our work properly.
• 15:33
  But what we're looking for does not end there.
• 15:37
  So we're a by active program, but.
• 15:42
  What do you mean by active? I'm sorry.
• 15:45
  I'm gonna explain. So we, we work, we teach
• 15:49
  students to work in both directions.
• 15:51
  So we have two working languages.
• 15:52
  We have English and French. And so students will learn to
• 15:57
  work from English into French and from French into English.
• 16:01
  However, it's important to specify that we, most of us have
• 16:07
  an 8, what we call an A language as, as you know, and B language
• 16:10
  and some people have C language as well.
• 16:12
  But for our program, we have an A language and BB language and
• 16:18
  we recognize that, we know that we know that the B language will
• 16:22
  not be as strong in various, in the various ways that, you know,
• 16:26
  we define that as the A language.
• 16:29
  But anyway, so that's a starting point.
• 16:32
  And language is, I think it's important to specify that they
• 16:35
  can be worked on, they can be improved.
• 16:38
  And we have ways to help students improve their language
• 16:42
  skills within an interpretation context, not just generally
• 16:46
  speaking. I mean, obviously people can
• 16:48
  improve their language skills, generally speaking, but an
• 16:51
  interpretation we're looking for very specific language skills
• 16:54
  and we can work with students so that they can improve those.
• 16:57
  But they should be coming in with a very solid linguistic,
• 17:01
  like a language back, you know, basis, let's say.
• 17:04
  Um, so, yeah. So what are we looking for
• 17:09
  beyond the languages? The most important thing I would
• 17:12
  say to my mind is analytical skills and what I'm going to
• 17:18
  call intellectual curiosity. So I think you probably know
• 17:23
  what what that means, I think. That.
• 17:27
  That this curiosity that we talk a lot about in, in, in, in our
• 17:32
  field is the capability. And you can hone this to notice,
• 17:39
  to notice how people express things because our business is
• 17:44
  communicating ideas. So how do people go about
• 17:49
  communicating these ideas? What are the words that they
• 17:53
  use? What's their approach?
• 17:55
  What's their perspective? And when you notice, let's say I
• 17:59
  use, let's use an example of an of, of an Indium or somebody
• 18:04
  says, you know, Canadians have to spend their hard earned money
• 18:10
  on groceries, right these days. So hard earned money carries
• 18:16
  with it meaning you start by noticing that.
• 18:20
  And that's what we're looking for, people who have this
• 18:23
  capability, this capacity to notice things.
• 18:26
  And this is just an example, it's a language example.
• 18:30
  And when you notice or you're interested, your brain retains.
• 18:37
  And so if you notice and are interested in the way that's
• 18:41
  formulated, for example, hard earned money, then your brain
• 18:44
  will remember it. And to push that a little bit
• 18:47
  further in the interpretation context, one would also wonder,
• 18:51
  I wonder how that's expressed in French.
• 18:55
  And I wonder if it's the same perspective.
• 18:59
  And when somebody says you again Johnson National as well
• 19:03
  different from in your mind, you will understand that those two
• 19:09
  things are quite similar, but they're expressed in a very
• 19:13
  different way. And if you notice that, you will
• 19:16
  retain it. So has to do a lot with like
• 19:20
  maybe emotional intelligence as well, right?
• 19:22
  Yes. And I watched your broadcast on
• 19:24
  emotional intelligence and I think that feeds into it.
• 19:28
  I think that that it feeds into a lot of things that as as you
• 19:32
  guys discussed, it feeds into managing your stress.
• 19:36
  It it feeds into a lot of things.
• 19:38
  But yes, there there's a lot of that emotional intelligence that
• 19:41
  come into play because the message is not only about the
• 19:44
  words that are used right. Yeah, because, I mean, Sarah was
• 19:47
  a, I saw one of her LinkedIn posts and she was saying our
• 19:50
  mental load when we're at conferences is at least twice as
• 19:53
  high as the people who are attending.
• 19:55
  So we have to consider all those things, not just the the
• 19:58
  interpretation, but like the, the, the intonation, the the,
• 20:03
  the, yeah, stress management, the emotional context, the like
• 20:08
  puns on words, like you name it, where we have to be present at
• 20:11
  all times. And, and yeah, it's very
• 20:14
  contacts like taxing for us. Yeah.
• 20:17
  So Elizabeth, did you have anything to add to to that?
• 20:21
  No, I think that's exactly the word I was thinking of.
• 20:24
  Was curiosity now. Yeah, because yes, I can think
• 20:28
  about all the things that make good interpreters and make me a
• 20:31
  terrible interpreter, which things like thinking quickly on
• 20:34
  your feet, you know, being able to except when something is
• 20:40
  slipped up and just let it go, move on.
• 20:42
  Resiliency. But when it comes down to it, I
• 20:44
  think it is curiosity, you know, because as Dominique said,
• 20:47
  you're going to apply it not only to current events and
• 20:50
  understanding the world and how everything influences the, the
• 20:56
  speeches that you're hearing, the intertextuality and so on,
• 20:59
  but you're going to also apply it to languages.
• 21:02
  And so when you're motivated, you know your preparation is fed
• 21:07
  by that curiosity and and your practice is fed by it.
• 21:11
  So absolutely. Yeah, I feel that curiosity is
• 21:17
  sort of the trigger to leads that that leads you to something
• 21:20
  else. So it starts with curiosity and
• 21:22
  overtime as you're curious and get older, then you become quite
• 21:27
  knowledgeable in a wide range of things.
• 21:30
  And if you've listened to the podcast that I always say that
• 21:36
  the at least in my opinion, and let me know what you think.
• 21:39
  In my opinion, one of the most important things is our general
• 21:42
  knowledge. When, when, because when you're
• 21:45
  interpreters, you don't always have your speeches in advance or
• 21:50
  even the PowerPoints or you name it.
• 21:52
  But, and, but if you understand what is being said, then you can
• 21:57
  produce some good material. However, if you don't
• 22:00
  understand, even if you have the best language skills, then
• 22:04
  you're, you may crash and burn. It leads me to another question,
• 22:09
  which is how old are ideal candidates?
• 22:14
  Because when I was thinking of the University of Ottawa, I was
• 22:19
  told back then, oh, you're a bit too young.
• 22:22
  Come back in a few years and learn a bit about the world.
• 22:26
  So, and that's why also I took a break and I decided to travel
• 22:31
  and do all kinds of things. So I wanted to have your thought
• 22:34
  about that. Do you want to go first?
• 22:36
  Yes, I will start with the first half of that and then we'll get
• 22:39
  to your question. And if we don't remind us the.
• 22:43
  So yes, context is context is everything.
• 22:47
  You're absolutely right, Context is everything.
• 22:50
  The task is so difficult that you actually have to have a
• 22:53
  variety of skills to be able to carry it out and understanding
• 22:58
  the context is one of those skills.
• 23:00
  So yes, general knowledge about many, many things is really
• 23:05
  important. And I would push that even
• 23:07
  further in getting back to the curiosity because I gave you
• 23:11
  sort of a, a linguistic example, but curiosity is true for
• 23:15
  everything. So getting back to like
• 23:17
  inflation, let's say we've just been a lot of talk about
• 23:20
  inflation. An interpreter's curiosity will
• 23:24
  push him or her to wonder how that all works and to think
• 23:28
  about of, of the basic notions of supply and demand and what
• 23:32
  happens when supply increases, What does that mean for prices?
• 23:35
  How does the Bank of Canada control inflation?
• 23:38
  And so it's this constant reflection and analysis of the
• 23:43
  world around us and how it works.
• 23:46
  So just just just to say that this this principle of curiosity
• 23:50
  applies to everything that we do really.
• 23:55
  I did remember your question as to the ideal age.
• 23:59
  And I hope I'm not interrupting. You know, we've, we've seen over
• 24:04
  the years, we have seen so many different cases and it's hard to
• 24:12
  talk about the ideal age. People are really, really
• 24:16
  different. They come into the masters with
• 24:19
  very different backgrounds. And that's actually what we're
• 24:22
  looking for. I'll tell you this opportunity
• 24:25
  to say that to get into the program and, and Elizabeth can
• 24:28
  give you more details about the administrative side of that, but
• 24:32
  to get into the program, you need a BA or B SC, right?
• 24:36
  And we, we love it when candidates come from various
• 24:41
  backgrounds. So we have candidates who we
• 24:46
  have students who came into the program and they had like we had
• 24:50
  someone with a chemistry degree. We've had lawyers come into the
• 24:54
  program, communication experts, so it's very varied and I think
• 24:59
  that's a common misunderstanding.
• 25:01
  You don't have to have a BA in translation to do our masters
• 25:05
  there. Are what I thought you needed,
• 25:06
  so thank you. That's that's what Ben, I hope I
• 25:09
  you know, Elizabeth will can give you more details, but and
• 25:12
  things have changed over time as well.
• 25:14
  So it's not that you were mistaken.
• 25:16
  It's things have changed over over time.
• 25:19
  So we do, we're happy to see candidates basically with very
• 25:23
  different backgrounds and that's not an impediment on On the
• 25:27
  contrary. And so getting back to the eight
• 25:29
  thing, people bring with them their own backgrounds and
• 25:33
  experiences. And and some people, I did the
• 25:36
  program when I was about 30 and I don't think I would have been
• 25:39
  able to do it before. But we have had very young
• 25:42
  students and we've had older students and who have been very
• 25:46
  successful. And this group dynamic allows
• 25:49
  people to bring their background to the lab and everybody can
• 25:54
  benefit from it. So we, we, we keep in touch with
• 25:58
  a lot of the interpreters and the, and the community and
• 26:00
  whatnot. And they, a lot of them were
• 26:02
  very much looking forward to this podcast, in particular this
• 26:07
  episode with the University of Ottawa.
• 26:09
  And part because we've already done all the other university
• 26:14
  programs and, but also because like Elizabeth said, you guys
• 26:17
  are the original, like you carry a lot of cloud in the industry
• 26:22
  and everything. So I guess one of the things I
• 26:25
  would caution interpreters who are thinking about doing the
• 26:28
  masters is like, you do have to dedicate that 10 months of time
• 26:32
  and not do anything else, just do this program.
• 26:35
  So I think there was that a bit of a misconception maybe in, in
• 26:39
  the community world that you could do both.
• 26:41
  But I think that what you're saying is no, this is a 10 month
• 26:44
  intensive course and this is what you're doing for the next
• 26:46
  10 months. Is that pretty accurate?
• 26:50
  So exactly, and I, I think it's, it's really exciting to see all
• 26:54
  these new programs coming up, but they each have something to
• 26:57
  offer and they each have their niche.
• 26:59
  And so that I think there is, we're getting to the point where
• 27:02
  there's something for everyone. You know, if you wanna taste of
• 27:05
  interpretation, there's something for that.
• 27:06
  If you wanna sort of work on it over a little longer time or
• 27:10
  have a little more diversity in your training that you know,
• 27:12
  there are options for that. There are multiple languages,
• 27:15
  there's community, but we are very focused on that conference
• 27:19
  near the English, French by directional, and we do do it in
• 27:23
  a very intensive way. And so we have different
• 27:25
  expectations of students coming in.
• 27:29
  As Dominique said, you do need to have a bachelor's degree in
• 27:32
  honours, bachelors degree to be admitted.
• 27:36
  You have masters anyway. It, it's Jenny Masters.
• 27:39
  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
• 27:41
  And, and, and so, yeah, you, you have to meet the requirements
• 27:45
  of, of, you know, graduate studies.
• 27:47
  And then you also have to go through this intensive admission
• 27:51
  process. And, you know, it's not to be
• 27:53
  exclusive, it's to make sure that you're ready.
• 27:56
  And as Dominique said, we have had people who have come
• 27:59
  straight out of the BA and we're ready because they were curious
• 28:03
  and they had been building their knowledge for a long time and
• 28:05
  they had been working on their languages, you know,
• 28:08
  intensively. And so they, you know, they did
• 28:11
  very well in the program, even though there were 2324.
• 28:15
  But we, you know, this is a great field because you can work
• 28:19
  as really as long as you want, right?
• 28:21
  So we've also had people. Come as your brain allows it.
• 28:24
  Yeah, and your ears and your ears take care of that hearing.
• 28:30
  But, you know, we've had people have had very successful careers
• 28:33
  in other fields. And at the end of that thought,
• 28:35
  you know what, I have the knowledge, I have the skills,
• 28:37
  I'd like to try something else. And, and fairly late in life,
• 28:40
  you know, gone through the program.
• 28:41
  So there's really lots of different options.
• 28:45
  It depends on you and, and where you're at.
• 28:48
  And if this is the right program for you and you're willing to to
• 28:52
  make that investment and devote that time and you want to focus,
• 28:56
  then it's, you know, it's a terrific fit.
• 28:58
  And otherwise there are there are other options, um.
• 29:01
  And and how many are you in the faculty in general like for the
• 29:06
  interpretations part of things? So we actually are very, very
• 29:12
  fortunate in that most of our instructors do come from the
• 29:16
  Bureau and that's a a rotating cast.
• 29:18
  So we get new expertise coming in every year, which is
• 29:21
  terrific. So lots of people come back and
• 29:24
  many times as Dominique illustrates.
• 29:28
  But we, we have some change every year depending on
• 29:30
  availability and interest and so on at at the university.
• 29:36
  So I'm sort of the person who liaises the most and
• 29:40
  occasionally I will teach in the program as well, for example, in
• 29:43
  this special topics course that otherwise we have some terrific
• 29:49
  part time professors who have also participated in teaching
• 29:52
  things like theories and, and the special topics course as
• 29:57
  well. So there's there's a lot of
• 30:00
  change and that's why it's really important to us to have a
• 30:03
  coordinator on both sides. So at the on the Bureau side for
• 30:07
  Dominique and myself on the school.
• 30:09
  Time I I do have a a quick question.
• 30:11
  Well, it's gonna take awhile to answer maybe quick question.
• 30:15
  I'm just wondering because we, we talked about a lot about the
• 30:19
  shortage of interpreters in the federal government.
• 30:21
  We had a, a Jean Francois Lymburner explained it and
• 30:26
  another guest as well. Are you trying to maybe get to
• 30:32
  the, the maximum of 12 students? They are trying to promote the
• 30:36
  program so you have more students, so you can have more
• 30:39
  influx into the the translation Bureau, so you can have more
• 30:43
  interpreters and fill the the gaps.
• 30:45
  Certainly would like to accept as many qualified people as we
• 30:49
  get. So yes, we would like excellent
• 30:53
  candidates coming in and we would like to read more of those
• 30:56
  excellent candidates. So certainly we'll be, we'll be
• 30:59
  trying to raise the profile of the program anyway we can.
• 31:03
  But typically our limiting factor is really that
• 31:06
  preparation for this kind of an intensive program.
• 31:09
  So in our admissions process, Dominique alluded to it earlier,
• 31:14
  of course you submit a graduate while you also submit a video.
• 31:18
  And after that we still have two additional phases.
• 31:21
  So we do an interview where we look at both language and
• 31:25
  background knowledge and then we also do skills testing.
• 31:28
  So this seems, you know, really quite a lot and, and a long
• 31:32
  process, but because of the way our program is intensive and you
• 31:37
  know, we ramp up very quickly from initial experience to booth
• 31:42
  readiness, we do have to target people who are ready to hit the
• 31:48
  ground running. So typically it's not so much
• 31:51
  you know, the number of applications or you know, the
• 31:54
  number of spots, it's really the number of people who are ready.
• 31:58
  That being said, with the appearance of, you know, many
• 32:01
  more options to get a basis in interpreting and really hopeful
• 32:05
  that more and more of the candidates we get will have
• 32:08
  started that process of preparation and will be able to
• 32:13
  accelerate the way that they would need to come into our
• 32:15
  program. So I'm I'm very optimistic in
• 32:17
  that respect and Dominican don't know if you want to add
• 32:20
  anything. No, nothing really to add.
• 32:22
  I think we, yes, we, we take in as many students as we feel will
• 32:29
  be successful, successful in the program.
• 32:31
  I don't think that the actual number of spots in the lab has
• 32:35
  ever been a limiting factor. I may be mistaken, but as far
• 32:38
  back as I can remember anyway. So we're always very hopeful
• 32:44
  that many candidates will apply and that as many as we can will
• 32:50
  be admitted to the program as can be admitted, will be
• 32:52
  admitted to the program. Uh huh.
• 32:54
  OK. Sometimes people who think about
• 32:57
  doing a masters and interpretation, sometimes they
• 33:01
  are a bit, I would say not really confident as they could
• 33:05
  be in their language skills. Sometimes it can be, let's say
• 33:08
  there's a difference between casual French and proper French
• 33:11
  in the booth. And this is something that I
• 33:15
  struggled with when I first entered the masters program, and
• 33:19
  I really had to work really hard on my French once I was in the
• 33:22
  program in order to feel confident and also to have all
• 33:25
  the mental resources to juggle all this.
• 33:29
  When it comes to that aspect, specifically when someone wants
• 33:33
  to apply for the program, first of all, how do you judge
• 33:37
  language skills at that level and what is your base criteria
• 33:42
  to evaluate someone's skills? Let Dominic Chicken first on
• 33:47
  this one with the subject build expertise and I will be happy to
• 33:51
  comment after that. And that's a that's a very good
• 33:55
  question. As as we said, we're a
• 33:58
  bidirectional program. So we do expect people to, to
• 34:02
  our, our students to work into their B language.
• 34:05
  I think a common mission mission, um with the.
• 34:11
  Misconception. Misconception.
• 34:13
  There we go. Is is that people, candidates,
• 34:18
  aspiring students really have to work on their B language.
• 34:21
  People tend to focus on their B language because obviously their
• 34:24
  language is technically not as strong as they're A, but we
• 34:29
  require a very strong A language.
• 34:32
  You really have to be the master of your instrument, and the tool
• 34:37
  is your language. You have to be able to express
• 34:42
  nuances in that language without giving it much thought.
• 34:49
  And so you really do have to work on your A language.
• 34:53
  You have to work on it before you apply for the program.
• 34:56
  And to be very frank, you work on it until you die, until you
• 35:02
  stop interpreting. And because you love it so much,
• 35:04
  you, you do it even after you've retired.
• 35:06
  But we working interpreters, I'm an example.
• 35:10
  I've been working for decades now.
• 35:13
  I still work on my A language That's and and that's the beauty
• 35:17
  of our one of the wonderful things about her job is that we
• 35:20
  do keep on learning even this very basic skill.
• 35:24
  You're a language. I mean, I think to myself, I
• 35:27
  know French pretty French is my a language.
• 35:30
  I know French pretty well, but there was always room for
• 35:33
  improvement. So, so the fact that there is
• 35:39
  room for improvement doesn't mean that it's not good enough
• 35:42
  if you if you know what what I mean by that.
• 35:46
  And so, and so it's important to focus on your a language.
• 35:50
  There's, there's specific things that you can do to to improve
• 35:54
  both your languages, both your A&B languages.
• 35:58
  One of the things that we always recommend for aspiring
• 36:01
  interpreters is shadowing, which is listening to a speech and
• 36:06
  repeating it in the same language with the objective of
• 36:10
  not repeating the sounds that you hear, but understanding the
• 36:15
  meaning. And yes, you're using the same
• 36:18
  words. And it's interesting to see that
• 36:20
  some people when they shadow will actually use slightly
• 36:24
  different wording, but it means the exact same thing.
• 36:27
  And that tells us that they're doing it properly because
• 36:31
  they're working with meaning and they're not working with sounds.
• 36:35
  So shadowing is always a good a good exercise.
• 36:37
  It's a good exercise. Also, you talked about register.
• 36:41
  You can choose speeches of the register that you're trying to
• 36:46
  acquire trying to work on. And if you shadow those and if
• 36:50
  you shadow them actively, what we call actively as opposed to
• 36:55
  passively, where you're really engaged in understanding the
• 36:59
  meaning, and then you will improve your skills.
• 37:04
  I mean, there's all kinds of other things that you can do.
• 37:07
  You can you can analyze transcriptions of speeches.
• 37:10
  It's important in interpreting to always work with a speech,
• 37:14
  something that's gonna be spoken, but you can work with
• 37:17
  the transcription of a speech to work on your language skills.
• 37:21
  Now, one thing that we we always address in our podcasts, because
• 37:27
  it's kind of the elephant in the room is AI.
• 37:30
  And we're just wondering, is there a component of that in the
• 37:34
  program? So we certainly are obviously
• 37:39
  aware of the importance and that's one of the reasons why
• 37:42
  our special topics course several times has been devoted
• 37:45
  to technologies for interpreters.
• 37:48
  And that's certainly, as we look at potentially updating the
• 37:53
  program, technology is certainly on the radar.
• 37:57
  Think that it's really important that students are introduced to
• 38:01
  the state-of-the-art and have a chance to explore it, both for
• 38:05
  its potential and its limitations.
• 38:07
  And because I think all of us know how important it is to be
• 38:11
  sort of ambassadors for the profession, right?
• 38:14
  To be aware of how the technology is changing and to be
• 38:20
  able to explain what it can do and what it can't, when it's
• 38:25
  appropriate and when it's not. And so, yes, we think that's
• 38:30
  it's something that of course we discuss all, you know, very,
• 38:32
  very frequently with students and in in different ways.
• 38:38
  Yeah, OK. I did, I did a conference a few
• 38:41
  months ago and it was about, it was, it was a agricultural slash
• 38:46
  scientific conference. And I didn't know that they were
• 38:49
  actually testing out an AI interpreting software at the
• 38:53
  same time as we were interpreting.
• 38:55
  And I, I found out after the fact and they're like, oh, you
• 38:59
  know what? I think we're going to keep
• 39:01
  human interpreters for the next little while.
• 39:05
  So in terms of like, because there are a lot of people are
• 39:08
  thinking, you know, I may replace several jobs, but I
• 39:11
  think that like, and then I have always been optimistic about the
• 39:15
  fact that we're here to stay for the long run.
• 39:17
  So if anyone is thinking that maybe AI will take over the
• 39:22
  interpretation world, I guess is it safe to say that you don't
• 39:27
  believe that? I think it's very safe to say I
• 39:31
  do not anticipate that the Hill will be going to entirely AI.
• 39:36
  Interpretation anytime soon Well sometimes, you know sometimes
• 39:40
  people say oh you're the last generation and I'm like this is
• 39:44
  sound this sounds like terrible. I hope that younger people still
• 39:51
  try to become interpreters and to study it.
• 39:54
  It's not only amazing, but whatever technological change
• 39:58
  might come, I think that what we can, what we do is very special
• 40:05
  and you can't just plug a machine to do what we do.
• 40:09
  It's, it's really true. I mean, I think that there are
• 40:12
  some context where the human touch is just not, you know, not
• 40:16
  replaceable. I think outside the field,
• 40:19
  there's this conception of an either or, right?
• 40:22
  It's human, or we replace them by machines and that's it.
• 40:25
  It's AI or the human. We often forget the
• 40:29
  complementary role they can play, right?
• 40:31
  So AI as an assist to the interpreter and how important it
• 40:36
  is to think about that as well. Whether you choose to use it or
• 40:40
  not, I think it's really important to be aware of what
• 40:42
  tools are available and how they can potentially serve you and if
• 40:46
  you want to use them. And if so, how?
• 40:48
  I mean, it's got to work for you and every interpreter has their
• 40:51
  process, but also being able to communicate with your clients
• 40:55
  and and explain to them you know what your your added value is I
• 40:59
  think is critical. And you can't do that unless you
• 41:01
  know what the tools are doing. And whether you're allowed to
• 41:04
  use those tools too, because there's the whole
• 41:06
  confidentiality of the documents that we received to prepare.
• 41:11
  Absolutely. So.
• 41:12
  And there you know, there are risks.
• 41:14
  You know, you think about the potential for of course,
• 41:17
  hallucination or error, but also bias also just this sort of
• 41:23
  general degradation, not necessarily errors, but just the
• 41:27
  quality is not really there. So there's, there's lots of
• 41:31
  different things that we have to think about if we're going to
• 41:33
  think about technologies in a responsible way and an effective
• 41:37
  way, ignoring them completely. It's I don't think an option
• 41:42
  anymore. Giving ourselves over entirely
• 41:45
  to the machine is not an option. So there's that hopefully not
• 41:49
  that middle, right, that middle ground that we need to to be
• 41:54
  realistic about. But it's also really exciting.
• 41:58
  I mean, in the sense that there are applications where AI can be
• 42:03
  super useful in places where human interpreters are not an
• 42:07
  option and something is better than nothing.
• 42:11
  But there are a lot of cases where it would be a very grave
• 42:14
  mistake to go that route. So, you know, understanding the
• 42:18
  factors that go into that decision making and what you
• 42:20
  need to think about and what questions need to be asked is so
• 42:23
  important, I think. And that's encouraging for the
• 42:27
  future generation. I mean, it's exciting to think
• 42:31
  about them going into a field where things are going to change
• 42:35
  and they're going to be able to, you know, to learn how to use
• 42:39
  these tools in a way that helps them and also potentially play
• 42:44
  role in guiding use, right? A lot of times tools are
• 42:48
  developed and there's a bit of a lack of understanding as to how
• 42:53
  they really, um, would integrate into a professionals working.
• 42:58
  We saw it in translation and we've seen it in interpretation,
• 43:01
  right? Where people think oht just run
• 43:03
  the speech through people and then read it.
• 43:05
  What could possibly go wrong? Everything.
• 43:10
  I mean, can using that technique be useful sometimes?
• 43:14
  Absolutely. But you need to know how to do
• 43:17
  it well and when to do it. And.
• 43:19
  Be careful, it's. It's speech is confidential.
• 43:22
  Well, you can't just, you can't just read it blindly.
• 43:24
  I mean I I can get a minute minister speech 2 minutes before
• 43:30
  I can put it into detail, but I I will make some choices as I
• 43:35
  read it to make sure I don't make any blunders.
• 43:40
  If you just read it finally and don't ask your and and don't
• 43:43
  don't have that thought process as you do it, then it's
• 43:47
  worthless. You know, then you get into the
• 43:49
  aspects of cognitive load, right, Whether that's
• 43:52
  distracting you from your, the, the way you normally work.
• 43:56
  How much of your mental energy is it taking?
• 43:59
  It's, it's so fascinating and I'm sorry, I am going on and on
• 44:02
  and I'm the least experienced and expert person in this call.
• 44:05
  So please go ahead and I just. I'm just thinking like in
• 44:11
  September, you should do that. They should do see like a a with
• 44:14
  like an AI tool and then the the student and then compare the two
• 44:17
  and see where who did better or you know where someone went
• 44:21
  wrong. Like it did.
• 44:22
  Pretty cool learning experience for them.
• 44:25
  You know, I've mostly tried things sort of a little bit like
• 44:28
  that with with translation. But yeah, interpretation, it's
• 44:31
  getting to the point now where you could absolutely try that
• 44:34
  out. Yeah, I've, I've, I've listened
• 44:36
  to one too. But like the voice is so
• 44:38
  monotone and you know, just like there's no intonation, so you
• 44:41
  don't know if it's a joke or if it's sarcasm or serious or.
• 44:46
  Yeah, anyways. Or just, you know, the
• 44:49
  mispronunciation of a couple of words, you know, homographs,
• 44:52
  that kind of thing. It's.
• 44:53
  Yeah, yes, absolutely. Any, any parting words, We're
• 45:03
  getting close to the kind of the, the end of the the podcast.
• 45:06
  It always goes too fast there. But anyways, do you guys have
• 45:09
  any? Any final thoughts, words,
• 45:12
  comments, wishes? I think we covered what we
• 45:16
  wanted to cover. If we haven't, you can always
• 45:19
  get back to us. And Elizabeth, I'll speak for
• 45:22
  you. Is is very available.
• 45:24
  If people have questions about the program, they can send them
• 45:29
  off to Elizabeth who always has the answer.
• 45:34
  And we are, are we always, you know, we work together.
• 45:37
  So we're in constant contact. And if she doesn't have the
• 45:40
  answer, she can reach out to me and we will be more than happy
• 45:44
  to provide answers to any questions that come our way.
• 45:48
  So so feel free to to send Elizabeth an e-mail with any
• 45:52
  questions. We will definitely keep in
• 45:54
  touch, that's for sure. And yes, we have a a dedicated,
• 45:58
  easy to remember e-mail. Even so, feel free to use mine
• 46:01
  or kamiksotramic@yahoo.ca. And what is the deadline for
• 46:10
  enrollments for the September semester?
• 46:16
  Typically we start accepting applications in the fall.
• 46:19
  I believe they're going to move up our deadlines this year, so I
• 46:24
  would aim to submit an application by December 1st and
• 46:29
  then that would be for admission in the 2026. 27 So it's already
• 46:35
  too late for the 2025. That's correct.
• 46:38
  Yeah, Laura, we have our cohort in place for 2025.
• 46:42
  So typically applications come in in sort of the the fall,
• 46:46
  winter and we do our admissions process from previously.
• 46:51
  It's been sort of February to May with applications coming in
• 46:54
  a bit earlier. It will probably move up this
• 46:57
  year. Many people have a are going to
• 47:00
  be part of the next cohort. At the moment we have a a new
• 47:05
  cohort of five and plus there is the option in our program and if
• 47:11
  you need a little extra time, some students come back the
• 47:14
  following year to wrap up. So we have some students who may
• 47:18
  come back and finish as well this year, so.
• 47:21
  It is a bit Dominique, thank you so much for coming into this
• 47:27
  podcast. I, I've, I've always been
• 47:30
  curious about your program at the University of Ottawa and I
• 47:35
  hope you really enjoyed the experience.
• 47:37
  I know Brian and I did. And to everyone who's watching,
• 47:41
  don't forget to please like, share, subscribe, comment.
• 47:45
  But most, most of all, take a look at this wonderful program
• 47:49
  and the e-mail will add the e-mail to the description below.
• 47:54
  All right, well, thank you very much.
• 47:56
  And we'll see each other next time for another episode.
• 48:00
  Take care.