Latest / Inside the Apothecary / #Ep02 - Herbal Medicine Explained
Transcript
- MG Herbs: Thank you so much for being here with us today. If something in this episode resonated, just know there's always a way to explore it further and support your body the way it needs. You can find out more by going to the website nourishingapothecary.com or reach out if you're ready for more personalized care. Until next time, take care of yourself and keep listening to your body. Jaime: Welcome to Inside the Apothecary, I'm Jamie. And today we're gonna be unpacking everything you wanna know about herbal medicine. So we are going to explain the history of herbal medicine, how herbs, how beautiful plants work in a medicinal format, what the difference is between the herbs that we use in our herbal medicine clinic and what you can purchase yourself from a supplement farm. MG Herbs: Hey beautiful, I am so glad that you're here. Welcome to Inside the Apothecary, a space for real conversations about hormones, fertility and the body. This is where we learn to understand the body, not fight it. Wherever you are in your cycle, your symptoms or your fertility journey, you are welcome here. and I'm Mel. Jaime: We're going to go through traditional uses, modern uses. What even, what do we even use? What does it mean? We're going to unpack everything. So Mel, why don't you kick us off and tell us what you love about herbal medicine. MG Herbs: because your body isn't broken, ⁓ it's communicating. take a breath, get comfortable and let's tune back into you. you Hmm. Well, I'm really excited about this episode because this is something that is at the core of being a naturopath. We are all medical herbalists and not all naturopaths practice in forms in the form of liquid herbs anymore, which, you know, breaks my heart because I love it. This is why, you know, a lot of us get into it so we can mix the potions. You know, we've got the witchy feels to us. We love kind of, you know, making and creating and, and, Jaime: Yes. Absolutely. Hmm. It's very sad. Yeah. Mm hmm. MG Herbs: customizing for the person. I love it because I mean, I love the history of herbal medicine. This is the first medicine ever. People didn't have pharmaceuticals, you know, they used plants and I love that we can make Jaime: Mm. Absolutely. Yes. And they went, and they went to an apothecary, may I just say. MG Herbs: They did. Or you know what? The apothecary came to them. I love that community aspect. And the whole point, you know, the whole point of herbal medicine and having these huge liquid dispensaries that you see behind us is so that, you know, we can make it for you, whatever's going on for you. And then we can change it. You know, this is dynamic medicine. You don't take the same herbal mix forever. It changes with you and where you're at in your life. So that's kind of why I, you know, Jaime: Yes, yeah that's true. Yes. ⁓ MG Herbs: still do it. still do it. You know, we can give you supplements with herbs in them, but it's different in a liquid form. And we're going to really try and explain that as best we can in this episode. Jaime: Absolutely. Okay, so why don't we start by explaining how does a plant, how is a plant used medicinally? Like what does that even mean? MG Herbs: Mm hmm. So yeah, I guess let's take a really common, well-known plant and then explain the difference between how we would use it and how we would make it into medicine versus, you know, you just kind of eating it every day. Something that is really commonly eaten and used every day is turmeric, right? turmeric, there's ginger, there's cinnamon as well. So we are using some of the herbs and spices that are used in food. However, when we put it into one of these bottles, it has undergone a fairly extensive process to get to there. And that includes the right plant part. So every different plant we use has a different part. Jaime: Mm-hmm. MG Herbs: that we use for the medicine. So for example, if it's echinacea, we use the root, right? If it's, there's other plants, we use the leaves, we use the herb, we use the flower, every different plant. Jaime: Can I just say with Echinacea, what I think is really funny is that I think people think it's the flowers. They see those like iconic, the iconic flower of Echinacea. We don't even use the flowers. It's the roots and they're really long roots that go into the ground that we use as well. Sorry, a little side note. MG Herbs: They do, because that's always what's pictured. Yeah. Yep. No, no, go interrupt. I'll just waffle with this because like, I'm, I just love it. With echinacea too, there's a certain age we need that route to be. So we don't, we don't pull that route out of the ground until it's at least five years old, because otherwise it's not medicine. It doesn't have the constituents and the constituents are all the ingredients in that route that make it a medicine. And we need them to be at a certain level. So if you pull echinacea out at one or two or three or four years old, Jaime: Yes. MG Herbs: it's not going to have the same concentration of constituents. So like, this is just a minefield. This is just one example of one herb. ⁓ Jaime: But I feel like let's just break down a bit more about these active constituents because I think this is like the core part of herbal medicine. MG Herbs: Yep. Mm hmm. I know we like it's going to be today. ⁓ Jaime: Yeah. So the part of a plant, the way that I think about this, right, is the part of the plant that does something, that does something medicinal is the active constituents. Now, in each plant, like Mel said, there are many and some will cross over in different types of plant species that we use. Right. And then some, a certain, certain MG Herbs: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. I like that. You tighten it up. Jaime: plant active constituents are the big ones that are the ones that really produce that medicinal quality. Now, I think this ties in really well with the difference with the plants that we use for herbal medicine, versus what you get in a supplement store and some brands, right? So our plants that we will use have had the active constituents standardized. MG Herbs: Yeah. Jaime: which means there is a certain level and amount that they know needs to be in there to produce a clinical result. Right. Now that those active constituents are listed in the on the bottles and the products that we use, the main ones that they are standardizing. Now, the difference with the supplements that you guys get, and often you are saying, well, I'm using whatever. When I look at it, they're not measuring that. They're not testing it. They're not standardizing it. Let alone whether you've been using the right part of the plant, right? So. MG Herbs: I was going to say, you can buy echinacea in a supplement that is the flower, if that's what you like, but it's not going to be medicine for you. It's not going to do the things that we would use echinacea for. It's not going to be immune modulating. You know, it's not going to be lymphatic clear. It's not going to do all these wonderful things that we use echinacea for. And the thing that bugs me the most about that is that you pay money for it. You take it, you go to the effort of taking it and you go, echinacea doesn't work. However, Jaime: Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I hear that a lot. MG Herbs: If we go back to, so you're saying our liquid herbs, supplemental stuff for the most part, maybe a little bit down. And then we've got food. So, you know, if I backtrack to my cinnamon, turmeric, scenario, sprinkling that on your food is very different to us giving you a cinnamon or turmeric in a liquid herbal form, or even some of our supplemental forms as well. The, you know, Jaime: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. MG Herbs: medicine versus food is a big one. It's great. You can definitely have cinnamon on your food. That's awesome. Eat the turmeric, eat the ginger. But as you know, there's a difference between fresh ginger and powdered ginger, right? So the extraction process that we use to get liquids, again, is very different and produces a different amount of constituents. It gives us that therapeutic dose, so on and so forth. So it is a bit of a minefield, right? You and I have studied for what? Jaime: Yes. 100%. Use it as much as you want. Go for it. MG Herbs: 10 years to do this. And we're trying to break that down into one episode. Yeah, still learning. We're trying to pound it into an episode for you guys. So sorry if we're a bit like, but we're just trying to explain why we give you really gross tasting liquid herbs for the most part. And ⁓ why sprinkling cinnamon or, you know, macaroon or ginger on your food maybe isn't going to be medicinal. Jaime: very long time. Still learning. Yes. Sorry about that. Hmm. So I think a good segue here is to talk a bit more about ashwagandha because it is very trendy, very popular because it ties in with the whole cortisol thing. But there's a lot that's really important to understand when it comes to ashwagandha. So first of all, naturopaths love to call it Wathania somnifera, which is its botanical name rather than its Ayurvedic name, which has become very popular. Now, when it comes to ashwagandha, MG Herbs: Love it, let's do it. Very trendy, very popular. Yep. Mm-hmm. Jaime: there is a specific part that we want to use. What is that part, Mel? MG Herbs: So that's be the root. Jaime: It is the root and only the root. So lately there had been some stuff in the media where people had had issues with taking ashwagandha supplements. The issue with ashwagandha supplements comes from a supplement that is using the leaves and the root. It is the leaves that cause problems. So if first of all you want to make sure that the supplement that you are having is root only and it will say that on the back of the label. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: That's really important to understand when it comes to ashwagandha. And then same thing. It's like with plants, there are plants and there are plants. Okay. I think this now ties in cause I get really passionate about this. It ties in with going back to Echinacea, right? Okay. I, I love to explain this about Echinacea cause I think this is really important and really cool. Right. So I just, get really, I get really passionate about, okay. All right. Echinacea. MG Herbs: Hahahaha Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm the same and then my brain's like firing all over the place and I'm like tie it up Mel, tie it together. Yep, hit me. Jaime: So echinacea, there are quite a few different species. Two of them that are really popular is echinacea purpurea and echinacea angustifolia. Now, what is also really important to understand with herbal medicine is often the location around the world and the climate that it has grown is equally, if not more important and in influencing the active constituents. So echinacea is a really good example because the echinacea purpurea MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jaime: She's not very fussy. She'll grow anywhere. No big deal, right? It's cool. She's cool, right? Not whatever. So she's quite cheap because the climate and the whatever, not that big a deal, right? Easy, easy peasy. No big deal. Echinacea, 100%. But Echinacea and Gustafolia, ⁓ she is fussy. She is picky and she is very temperamental. She only loves and really loves the climate of like North America. MG Herbs: She's easy to grow. Yeah. Like bananas in Queensland. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Jaime: She loves it when it gets really cold and she is very hard to grow. But the active constituent acanacea is called the alkylamides and they need that specific climate, that specific condition and soil to really get a standardized amount of those acalylamides to produce the clinical result that we're wanting. So she's more expensive because she's a fancy girl. She is a fancy, fancy girl. So it's different. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Jaime: So when you go and get your echinacea, and it doesn't even say what species, it doesn't even say anything else listed. You can understand, you can understand our confusion. so therefore our understanding that well, frustration for sure as to, yeah, you know what? I'm not surprised that didn't really do anything. MG Herbs: It says echinacea flower or even worse, echinacea herb. What is echinacea herb? Frustration. Mm-hmm. Jaime: Right? So these things matter when you're using herbal herbs as medicine, which is what we're talking about. It's totally different. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah. Look, any farmer throughout any part of the world will know that you need the right climate. You need the right soil. You need the right conditions for that plant to thrive. Right. You're going to get, you know, gross apples if you don't grow them where they're happy. Nobody's going to buy them at Woolies. Like everyone knows if an apple tastes bad, you're not going to buy it again. Like it's Jaime: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. MG Herbs: It's really hard with herbal medicine because we have such a mind field. And how do you regulate that? Like, how do you regulate what herb people are putting in their supplements? The dosage is often regulated, but it needs to be the dosage of the right thing, you know? And now access to supplements and herbs is so open. So we are ordering stuff from all over the world and every country has different rules on this stuff as well. Jaime: Yes. MG Herbs: So it's just, it is a bit of a minefield and you know, we just want you to have, like we, you and I want people to get the results cause we don't want a bad rap. We don't want echinacea to get a bad rap and we want to make sure people are getting the right medicine. Like that's actually going to work. Jaime: Yeah. So this is why sometimes when you come and see a naturopath, what we give you, what we do, that's why we love for you to come and see us is because we know we're going to give you the right form, the right dose and the specific amount that you need to get the results that you're after rather than you just kind of flying blind and buying whatever and just hoping and praying for the best. It's very different. MG Herbs: Yeah. think it's, yeah, so different. And I think it's really important to mention, go back to your root and leaf being put together in with ania. ⁓ The really interesting thing about that is, you know, when we make our with ania in a bottle behind me, we just use the root. So the rest of the plant, it's, it's available and it will be very cheap. And so often the prices of these supplements, yeah, they're going to be lower. But it's because they're using, you know, cheaper parts of the plant that aren't necessarily going to be medicinal or help you out. And they put a little bit of the root in, but they're filling it with the other parts of the plant because that's, know, that's how they get the, the supplement. Jaime: And what is also really crazy, and I think this is just because you and I have a good understanding of the herbal medicine industry, is there's so much adulteration that goes on as well. So when we use these MediHerb herbs behind us, they often will receive herbs in and they'll get bags of herbs and they test it before it's even allowed in the lab to test its purity. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yep. Jaime: and you'll get a couple of slightly different species of plants. And you know what, to the average person, it looks the same. But when you get it under that microscope, you realize it's not the same. And so it's all set back and not approved. MG Herbs: It looks the same, it smells the same, it tastes the same. Yeah. Or when you assay the constituents, you know, so there's multiple like levels of testing that we do throughout the entire process of creating that liquid behind you. You know, that ensures that we've got the right thing and that it's maintaining its constituents throughout, you know, the process and to its expiry as well. Jaime: Yes. But there's a lot of dodgy companies out there. And it's really sad to say, but because there is a lot of money building in this industry, they will do whatever they could try and do to be able to get these inferior products to market. But that's where, because we're so particular with the brands that we work with with Naturopaths, we know the ethics of these companies and how strict they are and rigorous with their testing, that we know that what we're giving you is really pure. And that's really important. MG Herbs: And you know what, sometimes it's been through multiple hands as well. So they will think that they're selling us St. John's ward of, you know, the right form, but where the farmer that they got it from or the one before that, you know, wherever it's come from, it's just been through too many hands or people have added to it because it's on weight, right? Jaime: ⁓ Yeah, yeah MG Herbs: So they get some beautiful St. John's water and then they add other crap in ⁓ so that they have more to sell. Yeah. So yeah, we use the liquids because the way that they extract them is it gives us this purity and this beautiful ability to standardize the constituents. It's a little bit more difficult in a supplement. The dosage isn't going to be the same. So if you think of a supplement, right, there's a limited amount of space in a capsule. Jaime: Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yep. MG Herbs: So often with liquid herbs, we've got better dosages. We've got more customized ability, like we can individualize it better. But also you have synergy and I'd love to talk about synergy. Would you like to talk about synergy? Jaime: Mm-hmm. Yeah, look, this is where it's so funny. Someone asked me the other day when I was kind of making up some herbs in front of it, I think I had like a mother and daughter sitting in front of me and she was asking me about like, what am I thinking about? Like, cause she could say I was like deep in thought when I was sort of formulating and I was like, ⁓ my God, if I break this down for you, it's going to seem crazy, but I just do it like off the top of my head. don't even think about it. So. MG Herbs: Yeah. Hehehehehe Jaime: When it comes to herbs, we know there are certain herbs that love each other and there's a beautiful synergy. then there's another aspect, synergy is so complex, right? But then there's another aspect where some herbs have an energetic that's cooling and an energetic that's warming. And so sometimes what you're also thinking about is the synergy of that and what energetics you're trying to convey to that client, what are they needing, for example. You know, so, MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Mm. Jaime: I think it's so much more co- ⁓ my god, ⁓ my god, this is just like, this is so exciting. I know. So we know that some herbs, like depending on what we're doing, right, so I know if I'm trying to lower testosterone, I have a winning combo of like, chastery, peony, or licorice. I know that synergy is a winner. I know, and this is just through time, years of- MG Herbs: It's cheesy, isn't ⁓ Jaime: doing this in the industry, like this knowledge being passed down to us, we know through, yeah, through testing, we know this about different herbs and this how certain herbs work together, wouldn't you say? MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Holy Trinity. It's the Holy Trinity. PCOS, yep. Yep, definitely. And it is, it's that traditional wisdom, like you said, it's been passed down, but we have that clinical stuff to also back us up now. We see that it works time and time and time again, not just in our practice, but in the trials as well that we do. Jaime: It really is the holy trinity, that's for sure. Yeah, it's so funny. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I think what's great is just there is so much evidence-based ⁓ research has come out now about herbs. And I think, I don't think there's really many on my shelf now that don't have any kind of actual ⁓ studies done on them, which is fantastic and really amazing. But one thing I was just thinking about when we're talking about individualization with herbs, right, is I often like to mention to my clients that MG Herbs: Yep. Yeah. So good. Mmm. Jaime: When it comes to herbal medicine, because we have so many, right? There's a big range. And so there's a big range in how we can personalize this stuff. And what I like to say to people is when we come to periods, right? And say bleeding, amount of bleeding. I have herbs for girls where it's moderately heavy, those herbs where it's flooding, bleeding. And so I can choose the range of those herbs that I put in the mix. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: depending on what your symptoms are like. Right? It's the same thing with energy. I have herbs for the mama that's exhausted because her kid is waking her up all night and she's not slept, versus chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, no energy level. So depending on what we need, I can pull from that big spectrum of herbs and customize it for you specifically. And I love that range and I'll never get that range from supplements ever. And that's one thing I really, really love. And not only that, sorry, just cause I'm on a, and I'm all excited. So with each herb, what I also love to explain to everybody, right, is with each herb, there is a dosage range per week to produce a clinical result. So what I'm working out is, okay, I want this bottle to last four weeks, six weeks, whatever. MG Herbs: Go for it. Go for it. Please. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jaime: then I work out what that dosage range is per week. But then I kind of go, what is the priority of this herb? So say for example, they're really crazy heavy bleeding, right? Or their fatigue is so intense. I'm gonna dial up that herb and make it a priority, thus having it at a more minimal dose in there, but still a dose that's enough to produce a clinical result. So the way that we play around with it within the formula and like Mel said, each time we see you, we can tweak it. So sometimes I might get a new blood test or something or something has kind of been a bit, I've not quite got the result I've want. So next time I'm like, all right, I'm gonna up the ante of that herb to give you a better result to match more of the line of what we're kind of wanting to do with you, which is very exciting. I know it gets me so excited. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. For sure. I love it. You and I both do quite a lot of liquids, you know? And like I said, some naturopaths don't do that anymore. And you know, it is like a little bit more time consuming. However, it is really affordable compared to supplements to do liquids, I think. And I didn't know when I became a naturopath that I was gonna have to do all this mathematics. I gotta tell you. Jaime: Yes. think so. ⁓ my God, me either. Holy moly. Definitely not. MG Herbs: But I literally can only do herbal math. That's all I can do. I can't do regular math. Excuse me. Jaime: Yeah, I'm probably the same. Yeah, but I think as well, it's with so whenever I get people in front of me and I say, you know, have you seen a naturopath before? And if they say yes, my follow up question is, did they ever give you liquid herbs? And so often the answer is no. And it really makes me sad. It really does. It makes me sad. And then it kind of makes me think, well, that's probably might be why you didn't get the results that you are after. Because in a herbal mix, right, this is what's cool. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah. Jaime: In one bottle, we can be addressing your hormones, addressing your energy, calming your nervous system. We could be supporting your liver. All of that stuff. could. 100 % we could like, yeah, mood everything, but in one bottle. So you're taking one thing that has all those different actions all at the same time, which is very in line with how we treat you as a whole person. MG Herbs: We can support like iron deficiency, blood building tonics. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. And if we take a step back to synergism for a second, the most beautiful, like, so synergism, I think of it like a catalyst, right? So we might synergize the Holy Trinity, you know, we know that Licorice P and E Chase Tree love each other, they work really well together. And we often will see in a clinical trial that those three work better together than on their own as well. ⁓ Jaime: right? And that's that naturopathic way. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. MG Herbs: let's come back to mushrooms, for example. But the other thing is we have herbs that are literally synergists, you know, so things like ginger, and they're very small dose, ginger, rosemary, like, so we might put five or 10 % in the whole mix. And it will bring all the herbs together. And the way that I always learned it from my mentors is that that synergist will send will allow the herbs to get to where they need to go. So it will help them all come together. It's like, Jaime: Mm-hmm. Mm, mm, mm, mm-hmm. Yes. Yep. Mm. Mm. Yeah. MG Herbs: It's like the friend who brings, you know, when a friend comes to a party and they bring other friends from other friend groups and they're like, you guys can all play together rather than you just inviting your friends from this particular group. It's like, let's all get together and really make this party awesome. That's what a synergist will do. And so we have the ability to not just put those herbs in that are going to hit the big notes for people, but then tie it all together. And you know, I always talk about herbs having multiple actions, right? Jaime: Mm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. MG Herbs: Ginger, for example, it's going to be warming, right? So if you have cold hands and feet, if your blood's not circulating very well, if your gut is a bit stagnant, we put that ginger in and it's going to have its own beautiful therapeutic effect. The other thing I wanted to talk to you about is yes, we have that dosage range on our herb bottles, but people still get results with drop doses. Jaime: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, that's so true. That is true. Yeah, yeah, you're right. MG Herbs: You and I practice therapeutically, we often will practice with that high dose, that high end dose, but I was trained drop dose by my mentor and I still use that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. And that works. I respond better to drop dose than therapeutic dose. Jaime: ⁓ were you? That's so cool. Yeah, I didn't know that about you. ⁓ you can give me a bucket of herbs. I'm fine. I need the... MG Herbs: See I don't work like that. I'm a sensitive creature. You know me. Jaime: Yeah, but when people do say that level of sensitivity when because it's often a topic that will come up right is I'll ask people how they respond to caffeine, you know, how are you with smells, whatever. Yeah. And when people say they're very sensitive, very sensitive, I'll often drop, yeah, drop the dose right back and start really slow. MG Herbs: Yep, or other drugs, know, pain relief, that kind of thing. but that means we can fit more herbs in as well. And it will last some heaps longer. Drop dosage has always been a way to have extended life for those herbs as well. So instead of lasting them four or six weeks, it might last for 15 weeks. So we have this amazing ability to just, again, we're not just individualizing and customizing herbs. We are doing the dosage. We're doing... Jaime: That's true. That's Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. ⁓ Yeah. MG Herbs: so many other things, like it's really made for that person. Jaime: Yeah, you're right. I wasn't even thinking about the drop dose. Yeah, one of my clients was so sensitive. I think I started her off on like five drops or something. And we slowly over like a year got her up to like five mils. But she was still but the thing is, she still gets great results on those drops. Like and that's what just blows my mind. Absolutely blows my mind. Yeah. MG Herbs: build it up. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. I love using drop doses. Sorry. With my kids as well. Like with my own children and my patients, drop dose work amazing for kids. And then they don't have to pallet the whole high dose either. So if people do find, let's talk taste, herbs taste gross. There's no wrapping that up in, you know, beautiful wrapping paper. They do taste gross. So if. Jaime: Mmm, yeah, we know that. No. No. With a bow. Mm-hmm. Sorry about that. MG Herbs: In Australia, especially, think our palate is not very good at bitter. We don't have a whole lot of bitter says you while you drink your black coffee. ⁓ You're fine. You and I are well adjusted to bitter taste buds like ours will be banging. But for most everyday Australians, they don't have a whole lot of bitter in their diet. So herbs are a huge shock because most of them are quite bitter and that's their medicinal kind of use like that's their medicinality. So Jaime: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm fine. I'm fine. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. MG Herbs: In terms of taste, what are you doing? What are your tips? What do you tell your patients? Jaime: So yeah, so firstly, never on an empty stomach, right? Never on an empty stomach. You have to dilute them. You can't have them straight. So say if I hold it up a little medicine cup here, if I give you five mils, I'll say, you know, top it up with a bit of water or juice, shut it down, but have something ready to chase it with. So if you want, I have diluted it with pineapple juice. I find works quite well. MG Herbs: Love it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Apple Black Current 2. Jaime: ⁓ coconut water. ⁓ yeah, not orange. I find orange juice is weird. Orange is weird. You need that sweetness to it. You can also put a little bit of honey in it and dissolve. I like that trick. Then the other trick I really like is ⁓ to get like a teaspoon of peanut butter or something like that. Have a little bit of the teaspoon, shot the herbs and have the rest of the teaspoon of honey, of the peanut butter because it coats your mouth. MG Herbs: Yep. No, Orange Yucky. Yucky. Hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah? Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Jaime: so you kind of don't notice it. I'll hold your nose or a straw. I've got so many, I've got so many tics. MG Herbs: Some people too, some of my patients do like warm water, hot water or really cold water too. So the temperature thing can sometimes trick your little brain. ⁓ But the most important thing is your taste buds will adjust. People find it easier. Yep. Yep. Yep. And because often it works, so people don't care. After the first week or two, they go, well, it works. So why would I not take it? Jaime: That's funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always say it's the first week. It's the first week's the worst. And then you kind of start to accept it and you know. Yeah. And I think with herbs, I always like to say there are levels of the bad taste. And a lot of the hormonal stuff is kind of middle level. It's kind of not too bad. I think it gets worse when we do acute cold and flu stuff. And then the worst of the worst is the parasitic, the worms, the bad stuff we're trying to kill. MG Herbs: Yeah. Yeah, if we're trying to kill something. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that comes down to the constituents. Bring it back, you know? If you have the right amount of constituents to kill a parasite, it's gonna be bitter. It's gonna be gross. Jaime: Totally, yeah, 100%. Yep. Yeah. And look, I say to everyone, if I could try and do them in tablets or capsules, I will. But when it's really bad, and I've had a really bad case in front of me, I've said to them, said, look, I really do think we need to use liquids. These clients are honestly at a point where they're like, I don't care. I just want to get rid of it. Help me. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Jaime: And so, you know, and we do it and we get those results because they're so effective. And can I also just say what I was also just thinking about in terms of liquids versus, you know, supplement form, liquids seem to work so much faster, so much faster. And it's so funny because when Tony joined our team, because she'd been working overseas a lot as an antropologist, so she hadn't been using liquids for ages, just because of availability. And when she started using liquids again, she was like, oh my God, I MG Herbs: Hmm. quicker for sure. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Jaime: forgot, I miss how fast they work. They just work so much faster. And ultimately, if you guys are coming and seeing us and it's expensive and it's an investment, I want you guys to feel like you are getting a result quite quickly. You know, I want you to feel some difference. And that's why when you do have a follow up with us, I'll go through everything again and be like, okay, so, you know, how is your sleep? All right, well, last time you said it was like this, but now you're saying it's like this because MG Herbs: Yes, yep, yep, Yeah, for sure. Jaime: We want to know exactly the impact that these herbs are having on you. So therefore, like we saying before, we can tweak it and go from there. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ no, no, go. No, no, go. MG Herbs: Yeah, then we can adjust. Talk to me about mixing, right? ⁓ yeah, sorry. When you and I mix. there are, you know, I think when you first study and get out, there's some trial and error in terms of mixing and this relates back to palatability, right? So you and I have been in this game a little while now and I feel like you do develop a sense of, you know, mixing. Jaime: for sure. Yeah. MG Herbs: that does allow your patients to take it as well. Like, so you know, you're not gonna go full strength oregano with full strength wormwood with full strength through yaw. Like, you know, you're not gonna do that to someone that's gonna out enclove. ⁓ my gosh. So we buffer it, right? We mix it so that people can take it. And that's a skill. I just wanna call that out. Cause that's a real skill that we've developed over time. Jaime: Yeah ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And I think as well, like, because I know in the beginning, when you're first a naturopath, I feel like it took me a long time to put together a herbal formula. Like, it because there's so many things to think about, right. And so I feel like it used to just take me ages to formulate those herbs. Whereas now I just do it on the spot. I don't even like it just it like I've got I MG Herbs: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally. Jaime: I think in our dispensary, I reckon there's at least 180, if not 200 plus herbs now. And I, it's on the spot. I'm not even, not even thinking about it now, but in the beginning, it's, it's really complex. And if I ever have to like extrapolate all the thoughts that in my brain, it is really complex, but I just don't even think about it. MG Herbs: Cool, very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That you know what? Go backwards. I taught herbal medicine for a few years. And when you have to then teach that, ⁓ my gosh, I had to try and like pull that out of this this whole crazy section here and be like this, you know, this is how I do it and teach that. It's so difficult. And I have students in my clinic all the time. And you take for granted what you know, and you take for granted what you've learned and how you've kind of ⁓ Jaime: ⁓ yeah. Mmm. Wow. MG Herbs: you know, how your process has evolved over time. And they would go back to, you know, you write the herb, you write the dosage range, you write your per hundred mil and then you times it by two or you times it by five. And it's just so beautiful to go back to that and see, you know, how far we've come. Cause we are what you would probably call senior clinicians if we were in another allied health role. Yeah. So it's, beautiful. We love it. We love our herbs. Jaime: Totally. We sure do. I was actually just thinking one of the cool things I also wanted us to touch on is traditional uses of herbs. Because I think this is awesome. And I love this part, right? This is what kind of Mel was saying about how what she thinks before kind of come from being witches and medicine women. And this is how this all evolved as being the medicine women in your community. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jaime: And one way that I love to be able to support women with herbal medicine is during birth and postpartum. Right. And I really think this is how women have been supporting women for hundreds of years. Right. Yeah. And I think this part, this, ⁓ right. So when we have herbs, right, this is what's really cool. MG Herbs: Yeah, beautiful. thousands actually. ⁓ Teaselroot's been used for thousands of years. Keep going. Jaime: Right. So some of these herbs like teasel root, for example, has steep traditional usages in helping to prevent women from frequent miscarriages. And that use is that's amazing. And the fact that we're still supporting women in that way, but now we have the clinical data to back that up is fantastic. Right. So that's one beautiful way that we could do it. then, surrounding birth and postpartum, I think is amazing. And so one thing we always love to do is to provide our clients. So we do full pregnancy support. So it's not just once we get you pregnant, then that's it. We support you the whole way, right? Because firstly, we want to get you across that 12 week, right? So we're all good because a lot of women have come in to see us for very complex fertility histories. And that might include, you know, some losses in the past. MG Herbs: See you later. Yeah. ⁓ Jaime: So we want to do everything we can and we have a lot in our power to be able to make sure that implantation and that beautiful uterus is going to be doing everything we can to hold on to that beautiful baby. And then, but then we kind of just in your team then as well, right? If anything crops up during your pregnancy, but then when we get down to the point again, when we start talking labor and delivery, it is so exciting. And those birth prep tonics that we put together, MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Jaime: ⁓ they made me so happy. And I love it. And I think this is our way of getting in front of the fact that a lot of medical professionals really push for they're having that conversation early about, you know, induction about, you know, trying to medicalize something which is just so beautiful and so natural. So us setting you up on these birth tonics, which we start at a very certain time, it doesn't bring on labor. But what it does is it gets your body ready. so that when it's time to go, it is time to go. None of this long, three day, long labor situation, it just helps your body to do what it innately wants to do. And I just think that is so special and we use these beautiful herbs for that purpose as well. What do you think? MG Herbs: Yeah. Well, T's or roots thousands of years for not just ⁓ recurrent miscarriage, but also pregnancy disorder. So there's a few phases, right? We want to get you pregnant for sure, but we want to get you pregnant with the healthiest pregnancy that we possibly can. And then the healthiest birth and labor and healthiest baby, because the whole point is to give that baby the best kind of health for their life as well. Jaime: Mm. Mm. Mmm. Yeah. MG Herbs: And we want to minimize your complications during pregnancy. And we want to minimize your complications during labor as much as we can. It doesn't always work out like for sure, but we'll do our best. And we have like not just that traditional evidence, which is so, so valuable. If you have used a certain thing for thousands of years, you're going to assume it's effective. Like, you know what mean? People aren't using it for no reason. And then we have all this clinical stuff now to show us that it works on the immune system to stop it attacking the embryo. Like amazing that it down regulates your inflammatory cytokines. Like it's unbelievable the things that we can now study to show us why that herb has been used for thousands of years. Jaime: Mm. Mm. MG Herbs: And if you go back to that traditional use in terms of the wise woman, the medicine woman, we would go into communities and teach the head, the family head, the woman of each family, how to do this so that they could then do it for their daughter. So they could then do it for their neighbor. And, you know, how to treat common colds. And this actually ties back to where the plan is from, because we have, you know, we have ⁓ the knowledge now that people would use plants from their particular climate to do all these different things. have, we have, we're spoiled. We get plants from all over the world now, but traditionally you would use the plants in the garden, you know, to do all of this work. So it's really like an honor. It's, so special that we have all of this knowledge now and we can look back and see all that traditional use, but then also have all of this clinical evidence to know that what we're doing is safe. Cause this used to be a risky business. You know, we can do everything that we do and then things sometimes still don't work out. yeah, it's nice to have all that back up. Jaime: But I think that's medicine in general though, right? Like, and healthcare in general. But yeah, I think having that knowledge and understanding in terms of the real like biochemistry of all of these different plants and that knowledge and understanding of how they work has just been such a game changer, which is so cool. Cause now we're kind of like, ⁓ that's why it does that. Right. Cool. MG Herbs: Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah. And that's what we love. We love that information. We're like, we're hungry for it. You and I, we're always studying. We're always learning. It never, never stops. Just quickly. What's that? Jaime: No, you, mm. I was gonna say you don't become a naturopath, but then you're like, and I'm done. MG Herbs: Yeah, tick. The thing that I just wanted to finish on quickly too is this is one component of what we do, right? As a naturopath, you are generally also, you know, a bunch of other stuff, whether you choose to be a homeopath, whether you choose to be a nutritionist, whether you choose to be, I don't know, are you an iridologist? I don't even know. Jaime: Mm. One. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, technically, yes. Yes. MG Herbs: So we read the iris. ⁓ Some of us are also massage therapists. Like you can go and do all these other components, but for the most part, we are all working with herbal medicine, supplemental medicine, and nutrition. ⁓ The nutritional medicine doesn't always come from food. Interestingly, you and I do a lot of compounding of nutrients as well. So like our herbal medicine, mixing it from the bottles behind us, we actually mix certain nutrients together as well. Jaime: Mmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, absolutely. ⁓ MG Herbs: That could be a whole other episode on its own, but I just wanted to touch on this being one component of what we do for people, which is so cool. Jaime: think so. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. I think of like naturopathy is like an umbrella term. Right. And then, you know, that's the umbrella. And so part of it could be homeopathy, aeratology, nutrition, you know, all the different arms of the umbrella as to kind of what we do. And also just the breadth of like what we can help with as well. Yeah, so it's it's really cool. And yeah, we both just love it so much. And we're so passionate. And so that's why we're so excited about MG Herbs: Yeah, yeah, I like that. Well, I think they will be able to tell that we are passionate. So if there's one thing that our listeners can take away from today, put you on the spot, what do you reckon? Sum it up. Jaime: Then I would have shared this with you all. Herb is not a herb and the type of the plant and where it comes from does make a really big difference. But herbal medicine is incredibly impactful in your health. MG Herbs: Love it. I love that. Well, thanks so much for listening everyone to Inside the Apothecary and we're going to see you for our next episode really soon. Bye. Jaime: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Can't wait. Bye.