Latest / ADHD with Confidence | Overcome Anxiety & Self-Doubt, Christian ADHD Coach, ADHD in Women / 145 // The Importance of ADHD Regulation, with Jenna Free

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145 // The Importance of ADHD Regulation, with Jenna Free · ADHD with Confidence | Overcome Anxiety & Self-Doubt, Christian ADHD Coach, ADHD in Women

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You are in for such a treat with today's conversation with Jenna Free.
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She is a counselor for ADHD with ADHD, and she helps people with ADHD work on
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getting out of fight or flight.
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We talked specifically about her book, The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation.
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And let me tell you, I have implemented some of these things in my life,
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and they have made an incredible difference
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to having me not feel like I'm constantly being chased by a bear.
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So if that sounds like something that you were interested in,
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make sure you click that follow button and you stick around till the end of
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the episode. Let's get started.
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To build God-centered confidence so you can know in your heart that you do belong,
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you are enough, and you are made on purpose and with a purpose.
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Hey, I'm Kelsey Spronk, fellow ADHD mom and entrepreneur.
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Join me in building confidence so you can experience.
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Hey friends, welcome to the ADHD with Confidence podcast. I am joined today
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by Jenna Free and I am so excited to hear all about her ADHD regulation method,
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the book that she has written, and just some incredible expertise that she has
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to share. Jenna, welcome.
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Thank you so much for having me. So I mentioned here you wrote a book called
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The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation.
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Now we're going to get into more details about it, but I have to say I have loved it.
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I've, you know, read a chapter and then paused and had to implement it into
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my life. I've wanted to tell everyone else about it.
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So thank you so much. Can you start off by telling us a little bit about yourself
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and your journey with ADHD?
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Absolutely. So I always felt different. I wore it as kind of a badge of honor. I'm so unique.
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I'm such a different thinker. I'm so special.
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Until I would say probably more in adulthood, I started to struggle.
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Just everything felt very daunting. Life felt very overwhelming.
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And my favorite quote looking back now is when I asked my roommate,
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do you ever not want to take your socks off at night and you have to put them back on in the morning?
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Like, oh, life is so hard.
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And that was just how I felt. I just thought that was normal.
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But then when I had two kids in a year and a half, that's really when the cracks
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started showing of, oh, okay, I think this is beyond just like quirky.
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This is not a normal level of challenge in life.
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And I think something's up. So I did look, I don't even know how I stumbled
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upon ADHD as the option because it was definitely in a Google journey.
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So I don't know if I was Googling like symptoms or overwhelm.
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I went, Oh my gosh, I think I have ADHD. Like that makes so much sense.
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But as a, you know, a girl who's.
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Technically thrive you know I've been successful in life my mom was like what
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are you talking about there's no way like I was a good student I've always been
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kind of a calm person so it really didn't register but after probably a year
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of going I think so I think so,
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It was very expensive, but my mom helped me go doing an assessment.
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Yeah, yeah. And it was a yes. And I was like, oh, my God. Thank the Lord.
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I'm not insane. I knew something was up. I knew it.
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And it felt really good. I know for some people there can be a bit of grief there.
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But for me, it just felt purely positive. I was so happy. It really made sense.
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And then I carried on. And it didn't make it any better, though.
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Okay yeah I really I appreciate the insight but
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now what and I was in grad school finishing up
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like my last few months to become a therapist so
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I was really struggling and I was like okay give me medication now like I need
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something to keep me afloat but I will say I'm all I'm a little scared about
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interventions of any sort because I never know like what's the side what's going
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to be the side effects and the things I'm not happy with and just because I
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was so close to finishing my degree.
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I didn't want to, you know, rock the boat. So I kind of just muddled through, finished that.
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Then school was done. So my life was a little more calm.
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So I could breathe. I wasn't as overwhelmed and struggling. So I said,
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okay, I'll just like sit with it for a little bit.
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I took some extra courses because I wanted to work with ADHDers.
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Now this was my new hyperfixation. Yeah, absolutely.
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Interest um so i
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did some programs and what i was taught was really
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what i would call a band-aid approach timers tools tips
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tricks hacks you know what you see online here's a tip here's a trick that's
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what that is the training for therapists to work with adhders in my opinion
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obviously you're gonna have the therapeutic side but the actual like adhd specific
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side was very like throw them a lifeline, like keep them from drowning.
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That's all we can do. So I did that because I didn't know what else to do.
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So I was working with ADHDers, giving them ideas.
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They would come back and not have done anything because we're already overwhelmed.
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I already feel overwhelmed putting socks on.
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Like, you think I'm going to do homework? No way.
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So after seeing people for, honestly, eventually hundreds of hours,
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I saw, like, we are all running around like chickens with our heads cut off
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and then crashing again and again and again and again.
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And these are our two modes we function at, myself included.
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Something like there's something here because it is every single
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person I talk to and we're all different but that thing was
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universal and so just with my
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education and what I know about you know psychology and biology like okay well
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that's what fight or flight is is like I'm really intense anxious rushing and
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then I'm crashing so once I realized that I went well let's not worry about
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the ADHD itself let's get out of this fight or flight because if we,
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weren't going at 100% to 0%, 100% to 0%.
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I think that would alleviate a lot of our problems. I know it would for me.
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And then I kind of started running with that. And that's kind of how this book,
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The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation was born, correct?
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Yes. And it was a messy start. I didn't have the whole framework off the top,
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but I went, okay, well, what makes this better? What makes that better?
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Doing a little bit of experimentation in my own life and obviously Obviously,
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my schooling of different therapeutic approaches, what would help.
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And I would say it was a good year of like coaching and being a therapist in
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different ways. And I finally landed on like, okay, here's the main things we need to work on.
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And this gets us out of fight or flight. So I've seen huge reduction in symptoms
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with clients, increased executive functioning, more enjoyment of life,
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which is a big thing that most ADHD content does not touch on.
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More productive, but less work to do it. Less paralysis.
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Like, oh my gosh, it's like all positive. have
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no downside to it there's no homework you
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don't have to like do more you just have to do things differently and
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for myself it really completely changed
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my life like I never did end up going on meds because I have zero complaints
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now like there's no need there would be no need for me to at this point because
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I'm really really feeling awesome there's little you know quirks here and there
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that I've just nothing and I want to get more into that and talk about kind of your,
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approach to regulating emotions and dysregulation and how we recognize that.
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But something that stood out for me, you said with your ADHD journey,
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you started to feel, you know, you had a couple of kids, you were in grad school,
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you were starting to feel like something was maybe more than just,
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you know, feeling a little quirky or unique or whatever it was,
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but that you did well in school, you were thriving,
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so to speak, and that somebody close in your life. So your mom had said, you.
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That you have that. Can we just stop for a second and address that?
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If there's anybody listening who has maybe been told, you know,
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you can't possibly have it, you're quiet, you do well in school,
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whatever it is, or maybe they're looking at a child, a friend, a relative.
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What was it for you that caused you to keep going and searching for those answers
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when, as you said, on the outside, it seemed like you were doing so well?
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Totally. For me, the motivator, especially after, well, to get the diagnosis,
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but then after the diagnosis to do something differently was quality of life.
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Like I'm not enjoying myself.
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One point of all the success in the world if I'm miserable in the process,
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like that hit me hard of like my number one priority was not productivity.
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For some people right now, it might be like, just get me out of paralysis and get my chores done.
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Like I'm drowning here. And I get that. If that's your motivator, it doesn't matter.
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You can still do the work. But my motivator was, I'm not enjoying anything.
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I'm just trying to get everything over with so I can go to bed.
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Like that's so depressing.
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Like I want to just be here for this life and be present in it and be along
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for the ride, no matter whether I'm working or with my kids or at a spa.
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Like I don't care. I just want to be present and be enjoying.
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And so that was a really big motivator of like,
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I don't care about what I've done. It's kind of irrelevant.
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What's the point of life if not to enjoy the journey? So that was a big motivator. Yeah.
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Absolutely. Yeah. And that's something I had read in your book as well, right?
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Being able to enjoy the journey, actually feel like you're a part of this and
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it's not happening to you.
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I imagine is something that a lot of us would be hoping for.
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As far as if there's somebody listening. So in your book, you talk about kind
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of the cycles and being emotionally dysregulated.
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What would somebody need to look out for that would tell them, hey, you know what?
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I think I'm a little bit emotionally or a lot emotionally dysregulated. Yeah.
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And actually it's not emotional dysregulation. It's nervous system dysregulation.
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But we hear about emotional dysregulation
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a lot. So then when people hear regulation, they think emotional.
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It's actually nothing to do with emotions. The emotions are just the symptom,
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right? It's the thing on the surface.
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The nervous system dysregulation is what's at the core of the issue.
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So it's less about, you know, how you're feeling and more about your primal
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system, which is your nervous system.
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That's like the animal part of us thinks you're in danger all the time.
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And that's the problem. When we connect that nervous system to the reality,
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and I know it's not everyone's reality, but I'm assuming if you're listening
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to a podcast, you're not in imminent life-threatening danger right now.
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The reality is you're safe.
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And if your nervous system doesn't know that, it's going to cause a lot of problems
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because you're functioning in a state as if you're getting chased by a bear all the time.
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Your system's on the defense. You're hypervigilant. you're anxious all the time,
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your mind's trying to keep you
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alive when you're like sitting in an office clicky clacking on a keyboard.
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It does not help. And when our nervous system is dysregulated,
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blood flow leaves the prefrontal cortex. That is the part of our brain responsible
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for prioritization, planning, logical thinking, executive functioning.
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And we go, oh, it's ADHD that's the cause of all this executive dysfunction.
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Do we know that? No, because you're probably also in fight or flight,
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which also decreases our executive functioning.
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You know, once you get more regulated, oh, I absolutely can prioritize. I can plan.
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I can make choices more logically instead of compulsively.
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Kind of the conscious mind is back in the driver's seat.
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So this is what the nervous system regulation is about,
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is getting myself out of that animalistic stage
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of I'm in danger and i'm in reactive mode which
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will look like emotional volatility a lot of
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time like snappy irritable easy to cry overwhelmed like if one more person asks
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me one more thing i'm gonna snap yeah that is how it shows up but that's not
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the problem the problem is the nervous system that is not in tune with the reality
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that we're safe because if it was.
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We'd be chilling. Yeah, yeah. We're just doing that next thing and a lot of
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the symptoms are going to go down.
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Something I found interesting in your book, and I wanted to make sure I'm understanding
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this correctly, so that nervous system dysregulation.
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You were saying here on page 26, when we're in a fight or flight,
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it can look like things like negative self-talk, ADHD paralysis,
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perfectionism. Can you expand on that?
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Because I think I found that really interesting to think about struggles with
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perfectionism or overcompensating, trying to get everything done all right now,
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that that has to do with that dysregulation.
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Can you expand on that? Totally.
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So perfectionism is a defense mechanism. That's not a logical choice. It makes no sense.
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If what you're doing makes no sense logically, it's a dysregulation problem.
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Because the conscious mind is one thing. If you're choosing,
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you're like, I really want to dedicate six hours to making this just perfect.
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That's fine. You're a grown up. You get to do whatever you want.
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But if you're like, wow, I can't do something unless I think I can do it perfectly.
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I can't even start because I know it won't be perfect perfectionism doesn't
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always look like perfection perfectionism will look like all or nothing thinking
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like if I'm not going to do it perfectly why bother that is a defense mechanism
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because perfection is like armor.
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It'll keep me safe. People won't criticize me. It'll keep me,
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you know, from being, you know, judged or whatever it is that we're so afraid
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of, which is all dysregulation because I can't hurt you.
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It is safe to be judged and it is safe to be criticized. It is safe to be thought
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of in any way, shape or form.
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But we perceive all of that as like imminent life-threatening danger when our
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system is not regulated. So perfectionism is absolutely a compulsive defense mechanism.
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It is not a personality trait. Mm-hmm.
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Okay. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah, I just found some of the examples that
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you had to be very interesting.
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I love too, in your book, how your approach to how people can become more regulated,
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like you even say in there, it's simple and it needs to be simple and how important that is.
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Can you talk a little bit about,
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you know, say somebody recognizes that they are dysregulated,
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what would be your advice where
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where do they start so first for
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every single tool it's always two steps awareness and
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interruption so for the physical there's three layers that i teach which is
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somatic work people probably heard that before and that's what most regulation
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work is is like yoga breathing tapping physical things for your body to get
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to calm your nervous system down those are great,
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but those are not going to change your life.
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It's not enough to get you out of fight or flight in a consistent way.
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So, but that's the first layer is the nervous system and the physical piece.
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But the way I teach it is a little different. So one, yes, we need that awareness.
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So in the book, obviously it tells a lot of different symptoms that you can
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start seeing yourself in, but it's going to be things like rushing,
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you know, not breathing if you're holding your breath, tense muscles.
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But also mental things like anxiety, rumination, overwhelm, all of those are
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signs we're dysregulated.
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So what we want to start doing first is bumping up the awareness of that.
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So as you go through your day and you're running to the other room,
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go, ah, I'm dysregulated.
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We have to start seeing it in that way, not just like, oh, this is how I am.
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I just need HD or so I'm impatient. No, that's not your innate state.
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That's you in fight or flight. So we need to start really being aware of it.
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Because you can't do anything about it if we're not. So we're aware of it and then we interrupt it.
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So if I'm running to the next room, I'm dysregulated. How can I interrupt this?
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Walk, slow down. And so the interruption process, I like to keep it,
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like you say, as simple as possible
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so you don't have to go read a whole paragraph about it every time.
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And that would just be, take a breath, drop your shoulders, slow down.
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The mental piece might be come back to the present. So if you're like,
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oh my gosh, later I have a meeting at three.
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Okay, I am walking down the hallway. Can I return to where I am? I am safe. I am present.
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And I am, quite frankly, acting as if I'm safe.
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We cannot talk to the nervous system. You can only show it through behaving
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as if you're safe, that it's safe.
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If you were getting chased by a bear, you would not take a deep breath.
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You would not slow down. You would not relax your muscles.
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And you would not, you know, let your brain relax and be present.
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And so every time you do that and this is
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a practice of repetition you're going hey look
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system we're safe we slowed down no bear got us we are surviving it's okay and
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by the end of the hallway you might be rushing again that's completely fine
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that's normal it's just a practice of awareness and interruption and it will
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eventually click and your system will go oh,
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We don't have to be rushing around all the time. We don't have to be in this
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state where blood flow has left the brain and gone to my limbs to run and fight.
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And that is really the foundational layer of this work.
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So that kind of awareness, like you said, things like feeling rushed or tense
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muscles, your shoulders are raised, maybe shallow breathing or holding your
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breath, things like that.
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And then interrupting that. And like you said, right, maybe by the end of the
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hallway, you're rushing again, but it's those little pieces.
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And that's something I really enjoyed within the book is I felt like you really
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approached it with compassion, with grace and understanding of this isn't a
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try it once and all your problems are fixed.
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It's practice. It's awareness.
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It's trying it again and recognizing that it does take time.
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It probably took time for us to get into this dysregulated state.
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And so it's going to take time to get back out of it as well.
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Something else that you talk about in the book.
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So for those who are listening and they're saying, okay, but I have,
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I actually have so many things to get done and I need to do them all at once.
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What would you say to them? It's physically impossible.
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So impossible and so one of the you
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know the mindset shifts or the visualizations is the brick
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wall and the brick path which is oh I'm trying
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to smash through a brick wall and that's impossible like all you can do is walk
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the brick path meaning in reality I can only do one thing at a time time and
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space are linear and the acceptance of that is a huge part of regulation work
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because what we're doing is,
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trying to cultivate panic
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urgency and rushing to get
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further ahead but it just it doesn't work it puts us
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further behind and this is kind of where we go into
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the thought and belief work which is i would say the meat of the regular this
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regulation approach which is realizing when i work to slow down it might last
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such a short time or you might not even be able to physically do it because
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your thoughts and beliefs are so strong that keep you in that state.
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The most common ones I hear are, I'm behind, I need to catch up.
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It's like, I have so much to do, I can't do that.
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Okay, but like, this approach hasn't been working. Running around like a chicken
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with your head cut off has not gotten you there, or you would be feeling caught up.
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Does not work, and it actually makes things worse.
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Because I know for me, I felt that for years, I'm behind, I need to catch up.
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The second And I think that I'm in anxiety mode. I'm in panic mode.
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I'm perceiving how much there is
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to do. It's overwhelming. I tip over into paralysis. I watch TV all day.
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And then the next day, well, haven't I just created a self-fulfilling prophecy?
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Well, now I'm even more behind.
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I'm in dysregulation. Blood flow leaves the brain. I'm not able to,
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you know, do it at a time. I'm not able to make logical choices.
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And I watch TV all day again. Until maybe like the day before a bunch of stuff
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is due, I can run around like a chick with my head cut off. I just cannot say it in a better way.
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That's fair. Just how it feels. And then I crash again. and then I'm stuck.
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And it's left us on a roller coaster.
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Versus when I let go of this idea that I'm behind, I need to catch up.
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I know people are going to go, but it's true.
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Just put that aside for a minute. Is it working?
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Has it caught you up? Is it making you happy? Are you enjoying your life? Probably not.
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So the shift in the thinking is really stopping the fight with reality.
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Because what you're saying when I'm behind, I need to catch up.
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What you're saying is I should be over there.
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But the reality is I'm over here, but I should be over there.
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Okay, you could fight. You could say that all you want, but here you are.
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Oh, the shift would be the reality is I am where I am.
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Now what? It takes the pressure off. I invite myself to walk down the brick
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path instead of trying to smash the wall.
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This is what, you know, this is like a very logical version of grounding.
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A lot of people do regulation work in, you know,
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I think it works for a certain type of person and I
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think it's really valuable but to me would be a
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little bit more you know therapeutic sometimes
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it can feel a little bit woo woo a little fluffy that's not my approach I'm
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like a super logical results oriented person so that's why I designed my regulation
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work to be a little bit more that like that so it's just logical to go okay
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yeah I can fight all I want with I should be I should be I should be but that's
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not getting me anywhere what would be more effective?
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Oh, get good at just like being in the present moment. I am where I am.
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What's one step I can take and
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practice just living in the moment with one step at a time being enough.
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So obviously it's a little bit more complex than that to get to that space,
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but a good little tool that you can kind of wrap up the mental work in is like GPS thinking.
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So when you're in your car and you have the GPS on,
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Even if you go five kilometers in the wrong direction, it's not going, you're so stupid.
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You should have turned five kilometers ago. You're so dumb. I can't believe you did that.
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It accepts where you are and says, turn left. Like, that's what we want our
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thinking to do. Super logical.
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Like, I am where I am. Let's accept the reality. What's the next step?
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Retraining the brain to feel safe to do that takes work. Because your brain
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has been functioning in a dysregulated state for so long that it thinks guilt,
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shame, urgency, fear, pressure are motivating. It's keeping you alive.
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It's preventing you from like falling out of the tribe, getting eaten by the
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bear. It's very primal. Yeah.
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So it's going to be uncomfortable to accept. Even right now,
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people are probably like debating in their own heads. Like, well,
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I can't accept where I am because of blah, blah, blah.
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Look, you are where you are, whether you accept it or not. Yeah.
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No, I think there was one example that resonated so much with me from the book.
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And you were talking about kind of accepting the reality of where you are instead
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of, you know, expending all the energy thinking, well, I should or I should
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have or I should be there and things like that. And the fact that that does not change our reality.
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You were describing, you know, an
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example of trying to get to a dentist appointment or something like that.
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And I have experienced this exact thing you described of, you know,
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if you stay stuck and you're rushing and you're dysregulated,
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you're still going to be late if you were already running late.
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But now you're going to be late. You're going to get a parking ticket because
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you didn't check. You can't park there.
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You're going to come in all flustered. You're going to turn the wrong way.
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And then you're going to get upstairs and realize you're actually at the wrong doctor's office.
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And I have. I have. I've rushed. I've gotten into the vehicle.
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It's that shame spiral of you know I'm late
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again why can I never be on time you know all the
24:59
things that I add on to that and and the character judgments
25:02
that are absolutely unnecessary like later in your book you
25:05
talk about that neutral thinking right
25:08
okay I'm late rushing's not gonna help
25:11
and things like that but yeah I've had it where I felt
25:15
like I didn't have the time to check the address or
25:18
the confirmation text and I have brought all three
25:21
of my young kids to an optometrist appointment at the
25:24
wrong clinic and it was you know and then obviously is that helping me at that
25:30
point you know and at that point I still have the choice of saying this is my
25:34
reality we have missed our appointment we're gonna have to reschedule but initially
25:39
just to think of the pain I could have saved myself Ooh.
25:45
And taking a breath, accepting my reality that, yes, I was running late,
25:50
but not then having this trickle effect of negative, you know, responses.
25:58
And that's what's so cool. Once you start seeing it, you can't unsee it.
26:01
It's like, oh, this whole time, decades, I've thought, I can't afford to slow down.
26:06
I can't afford to be mindful. I can't afford, I have so much to do.
26:11
That's causing the problem in the first place. but it's hard to see it when you're in it.
26:15
When we're dysregulated, we get really zoomed in. It's hard to have perspective.
26:19
It's hard to understand that it's all connected. It's hard to see the patterns.
26:23
Biologically, that's the brain is programmed. Zoom in, get through the moment,
26:27
survive the day so we don't die because what's, tomorrow does not matter.
26:31
If I die today, tomorrow doesn't matter.
26:33
So the brain has a very short time horizon. I can't think about the long-term.
26:37
I can only think about the short-term.
26:39
This is why I believe so much ADHD content is hacking.
26:43
Hacks tips tricks short-term how do i get through
26:46
the day because we're dysregulated that's
26:49
all we see is like the next day
26:52
getting over that next hump getting this over with so i can go lay down but
26:56
if someone even has a glimmer of wait a second and when you slow down you actually
27:02
instantly like have a longer time horizon as in like i can perceive the future
27:07
a little bit better wait a second.
27:10
I'm running around in circles. I'm stuck in a cycle, this frantic crash cycle.
27:16
I'm either intense or I'm flat out on the couch and I can't move.
27:20
But then I get intense again.
27:22
Wait a minute. Is this all connected? Like am I stuck on a hamster wheel that I could get off of?
27:28
Oh, and then this is where we start going into more of a healing approach.
27:32
So my, you know, my messaging lately has been like, okay, are you hacking or are you healing?
27:36
You can only choose one or the other. You can hack your way through your day
27:39
and just get by and just get by.
27:41
But eventually, people will typically hit a wall where they're like.
27:45
Oh, I'm tired of this cycle where it's never getting easier. I'm just getting by.
27:51
Or can I do the longer term approach of like, okay, I understand this is not
27:56
going to be fixed overnight.
27:57
And I'm okay with that because I'm tired of the like, just keeping my head above
28:03
water. I'm going to get out of this freaking river.
28:06
But that takes this work of like seeing, oh, I understand in the short term
28:11
it's more comfortable to rush, rush, rush.
28:13
But in the long run, it's hurting me. It's making things worse.
28:16
And once you see it, I really do believe once you see it, you can't unsee it.
28:21
Oh, okay. Yes, this is, this is hurting me.
28:24
So even when I still get, I'll get that feeling of like, oh,
28:28
but I catch it so fast now. I'm like, okay, that's only going to hurt me.
28:32
Yeah. Slow down. All right. You know, focus on the one next step.
28:37
And I will say, because some people will think that regulation and productivity
28:41
or success are two like opposite ends of the spectrum.
28:44
Like, oh, I can either be regulated and calm and have relaxed life,
28:49
or I can achieve and be productive and be successful.
28:52
They are not opposite. They are one and the same.
28:56
If you're dysregulated, you are going to waste time. You are going to be in
29:00
your animalistic state that's not logical, is making weird decisions.
29:05
You are going to, you know, make a lot more mistakes. Your executive functioning
29:09
is going to be down. There can be more paralysis, much more time spent stuck.
29:14
When we're regulated, it's very counterintuitive. Oh, I'm actually,
29:19
overall, I've slowed down a little bit, but I'm not crashing.
29:23
I'm not getting stuck in process for hours or days at a time.
29:26
So I have this consistency that actually makes me more productive, more successful.
29:33
I really do think our society rewards, not on purpose, but subconsciously,
29:39
or just how we're built, rewards consistent, gentle action, more so than intense
29:45
bursts and then nothing.
29:47
So if you can become a person who, this is my sound for regulation.
29:52
If I can do my way through life, yeah, day to day, it feels like I'm not getting
29:57
enough done. I'm not getting far enough.
29:58
But you keep that up because you're not burning all your energy just being a fight or flight.
30:04
Oh my gosh, quite quickly, you are gonna be more productive than you were before,
30:09
more successful, reaching goals way faster than you were.
30:14
But it feels weird because you're not in this panic.
30:17
So it's tough work because we really got to kind of buy in first.
30:22
So a lot of my, you know, content online, my podcast, being here with you.
30:28
A lot of my message is going to be why getting out of fight or flight is so
30:33
important and why it's going to give you everything you wanted.
30:36
Because you have to have that buy-in and you have to be motivated to do it and
30:41
see why it would help you not think of it as a should.
30:44
Right. I really should slow down. I shouldn't rush. It's not about that. Do whatever you want.
30:49
But if you want less ADHD symptoms, if you want a more enjoyable life,
30:54
if you want to be more productive is typically the most fruitful path.
31:00
I think in reading your book, too, for me, it did.
31:05
It really helped to understand, you know, the fact that because I am somebody who likes to achieve,
31:10
who likes to be productive, but I see it and you're right, I can't unsee it now,
31:14
is that so often it was just this to-do list rattling around in my head as if I thought,
31:20
you know thinking about it was going to actually do
31:23
something about it and i think too there's something very liberating
31:27
about this approach that you're teaching us about is
31:31
the fact that not only can you
31:34
get more done and more done in the long run but you can get more done in a peaceful
31:40
kind of way where you can look at you know maybe how you've responded to your
31:44
spouse or your friends or your parents or your children and you're not in that that primal state.
31:53
That is, I'm assuming, going to make you a lot more likely to snap.
31:58
And I think it's been, that's something that's so incredibly helpful.
32:02
And I think for a lot of people too, I was reading in here how you had said,
32:06
you know, the way that what we say we value, what matters to us versus how we actually live our life.
32:14
I really do think this is beautiful, this regulation, because I think it will
32:19
help us to not just get things done, but get things done in a way that aligns
32:25
with what actually matters.
32:27
Those quality relationships, that quality time or that purposeful,
32:32
meaningful life that we want to live.
32:34
If we're constantly in that state of dysregulation and chaos,
32:38
I imagine that does not align very well with what most people want to experience. Yeah.
32:46
And that's why, you know, people are really like i don't know what the word
32:52
is disempowered or resentful it's just like.
32:56
Life is so stupid. It's just one like obligation after another.
33:01
And that is because you were in fight or flight. That's not because that's the
33:04
inherent reality of life.
33:06
When you're in fight or flight, your biology actually blocks all the stuff that
33:11
is going to be fulfilling.
33:12
Connection, enjoyment, being present, you know, being fulfilled.
33:17
All of that is unavailable to us by
33:21
design because your system is literally
33:24
in survival mode meaning how do i just survive to
33:27
get through the day and you do it again the next day so yeah that feels
33:30
bleak it feels empty we're going to be resentful
33:33
but just knowing oh that's not life that's
33:37
fight or flight because when we're regulated you can get better just like enjoying
33:43
life but life doesn't have to change to enjoy it more I work more now than I
33:49
did when I was so unhappy but I enjoy the process I do do
33:55
do do I chip away at tasks even tasks that I don't love
33:58
I'm like okay well you know I'll just make this
34:00
as nice as I can and there's not
34:04
the guilt and shame all the time that's a way down
34:07
it's just like living in reality without the
34:10
judgment doing what I can accepting the
34:14
choices I make sometimes they work out sometimes I might
34:17
make a different choice next time but it's like
34:19
just so peaceful and so life is going to be much more fulfilling you're going
34:24
to connect with your loved ones like you said the snapping and the irritability
34:27
and you know I know so many parents especially ADHD parents is like we're snappy
34:33
we're impatient we're frustrated then they go to bed and go oh you angel yeah.
34:39
Look at you you are oh and then we feel guilt and shame but then we just next day.
34:45
And so it's just knowing that kind of stuff is not a choice you're making.
34:48
That's not who you are. That is your nervous system in fight or flight.
34:52
As someone who's really, I mean, obviously, this is my work and my personal
34:56
philosophy of life, but I am such a better parent and I'm more successful in
35:02
my career at the same time.
35:04
That's why I love regulation work because a lot of productivity-focused work
35:08
is going to take energy from you.
35:11
Like, oh, let's get more done.
35:13
And it's not necessarily going to make your relationships better.
35:16
It's not necessarily going to give you more energy. It's not necessarily going to help other things.
35:20
Regulation work is truly win, win, win, win. It's like, I'm going to get more done.
35:25
I'm going to exert less energy doing so. I'm going to be more patient.
35:29
I'm going to be more present. I'm going to have a better personal life.
35:33
It's only good in every way. And I think that's why it's so powerful.
35:37
There's no other strategy I know of that's going to get more done and give you
35:42
more energy at the same time.
35:43
It's so cool. And I don't know anyone that would pass that up.
35:47
I wanted in just a minute here, I'll ask for the listeners just a couple of
35:52
things that they can start with that they can walk away from this episode with.
35:55
But something I wanted to share that you wrote in the book on page 29 was you
36:01
can really thrive with the exact brain you have when you work on regulation.
36:06
What's problematic isn't our brains. It's that our wonderful brains are in fight
36:11
or flight, exacerbating our symptoms.
36:13
And I love that because I think it
36:15
does a great job of demonstrating your perspective on ADHD, on regulation.
36:23
I think a lot of times there can be different opinions on ADHD and whether that
36:28
is a doom and gloom diagnosis that has now told you you are never going to be successful or happy.
36:34
And I really enjoy that you encapsulated so nicely here the fact that yes,
36:39
you can thrive with the exact brain you have right now.
36:43
You don't need to be fixed. You are not a problem. You are not made poorly or wrong.
36:50
But we do need to work on that regulation. So with that being said,
36:55
just to end us off here, what would you say for somebody who's listening?
36:59
Where do they start? They're feeling dysregulated. You know,
37:03
they feel like they're being chased by a bear.
37:05
I know for me, a lot of times, you know, my kid will drop something on the floor
37:08
and the sound of that just, I feel it.
37:11
I feel the shockwaves through my entire body of being chased by a bear or,
37:17
you know, somebody in the house will make some sort of sound and right away
37:22
my body, I feel it in my body.
37:24
Where should people start as far as regulation?
37:29
So number one is put your dysregulation goggles on, I say.
37:33
Like you want to start seeing yourself through the lens of a person who's in
37:37
fight or flight, not as a person who has ADHD. deep.
37:40
I think the biggest barrier is.
37:43
To the ADHD field right now is the assumption that what you have now is what
37:48
you're going to continue to have. And this is ADHD.
37:51
It's not. I have never met an ADHDer who's not also in fight or flight.
37:55
The studies and the information we have does not account for that.
37:59
It's assuming the ADHD and the fight or flight are one in the same.
38:03
So that's where we have to start. I know it feels like a non-step,
38:07
but if you label all the things you're experiencing as ADHD,
38:12
you will never get anywhere.
38:13
Because what you're told is, this is just how your brain is.
38:16
All you can do is survive.
38:18
And so what we believe is exactly what we will do because our brains are very
38:22
smart. They're not going to waste our time on something that we think is hopeless.
38:25
So you have to start seeing, oh, that's fight or flight.
38:29
Because it's fight, flight, freeze, fawn. So that's going to be irritability,
38:33
rushing, right? The fight piece, defensiveness, any sort of anger.
38:38
Not that we don't have real emotions, but I will say the more I do this work,
38:42
I'm like, a lot of the human spectrum of emotions is just a nervous system in fight or flight.
38:47
Like, dare I say, like 80%. Like, if we were regulated, we'd be a lot more emotionally,
38:52
like, relaxed and not as reactive.
38:58
Flight avoidance, procrastination, not going towards the thing you know you
39:02
want to do, not prioritizing the important thing. That's fight or flight.
39:06
That's not ADHD in itself. freeze paralysis
39:10
you're think of it oh i'm a deer in the
39:13
headlights right now feeling unsafe you're not lazy you're not just how you
39:18
are with adhd and then fun people pleasing putting other people first rejection
39:25
sensitivity excessive worryable what people think all of those things are dysregulation.
39:32
That is not ADHD.
39:34
So that first and foremost, start seeing it. Oh, I see that.
39:39
Because like I said, you can't do anything you're not aware of.
39:42
And then the second piece would be that interruption.
39:45
This is, again, this is the foundational level. This is not the whole thing.
39:48
But to not overwhelm, we'll stick with one.
39:52
When I notice I'm shoulders up to the ears and rushing, can I slow down?
39:57
Just again and again. Whenever you notice it, just play with it.
40:01
The mindset you want to come at this work with is curiosity,
40:04
not judgment. Judgment is dysregulation.
40:08
Judgment is you trying to keep yourself safe because I got
40:10
to classify everything what's good what's bad what's right what's wrong just
40:14
isn't that interesting I'm in
40:17
paralysis what's that about oh I see
40:20
it's usually an overwhelmed to paralysis pipeline it's like
40:23
what was I overwhelmed about that got me here oh my gosh
40:26
yes I feel like I have so much to do I feel
40:29
you know xyz what am I perceiving what are my beliefs
40:32
oh yeah I see that I believe I'm behind I
40:35
need to catch up there's a lot of pressure here oh isn't
40:38
that interesting or if you're rushing isn't that interesting i
40:41
really know where to be yet i'm still rushing around
40:44
like trying to get out of here as fast as possible oh wow that's
40:49
how we want to start thinking even if it's fake at first it's like we really
40:52
want to train that brain to go how curious because that's what's going to allow
40:58
us actually look at it more and more and more learn more about ourselves and
41:01
then do the retraining to get our system to a place where.
41:05
Is functioning more naturally in a state of, I'm good. I'm just here. I'm safe. Now what?
41:14
And I love the power of it combined with the simplicity.
41:18
What I've been practicing from your advice has, I do, I notice that I notice
41:24
it in my shoulders and my body. I feel tense.
41:26
I feel snappy and angry. It's just the deep breath.
41:30
And it's like you said, right? You can't talk Talk to your nervous system and
41:36
tell it, okay, well, you're safe, therefore calm down. You're fine.
41:39
You know, that doesn't usually help, right? Screaming at somebody to calm down
41:43
when they're already stuck up doesn't work for ourselves either.
41:46
So yeah, taking that deep breath. And then one of the other reminders from your
41:50
book here was just you can only do one thing at a time.
41:55
You can only do one thing at a time.
41:59
And I think that's something that actually society has done a bit of a disservice
42:04
in this whole concept, especially for women, of multitasking, right?
42:09
And I love that you talk about that in the book and the fact that it's task
42:13
switching very rapidly and not very effectively because our brains can't,
42:19
that's not how we're supposed to function, right?
42:22
And so I think that was really helpful as well to dispel that myth of multitasking
42:29
and recognize, you know, I think the recognition piece that you talked about,
42:33
even today, you know, typically I'll get home, I'll work out of the house for
42:38
a bit, I'll come home, but I often get stuck in that paralysis, sitting in my vehicle,
42:44
scrolling on my phone, and just even the awareness piece of,
42:47
oh, this is, I'm freezing, right?
42:51
I'm paralyzed. And just that awareness was enough for me to say, hey, you know what?
42:58
I don't want to do that today. I'm not unsafe.
43:02
I can pack up my stuff and walk into my house right away.
43:05
And it set such a good tone for the rest of the day. So thank you.
43:10
If people want to go and learn more about your ADHD regulation method,
43:16
your book, more about you, where can they go to find out more?
43:19
Absolutely. you can find me at jennifree.com. The book, The Simple Guide to
43:23
ADHD Regulation is available wherever books are sold.
43:27
And I also do a group coaching program on this approach called ADHD Regulation Groups.
43:33
And that's all on my website. But if someone's interested in like,
43:36
I really want to dive in and do this thing, that is obviously the most A to Z way to do it.
43:43
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us here today.
43:46
If people are not convinced, I will continue to talk to you about how incredibly
43:51
important and powerful this approach is.
43:55
So thank you so much for being here with us today. Thank you so much.