Latest / Gay Men Going Deeper / Finding Connection in the Gay Community (Part 2)

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Finding Connection in the Gay Community (Part 2) · Gay Men Going Deeper

• 0:02
  Speaker A: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Gay Men Going Deeper. This is part two of an episode that we are doing about finding connection in the gay community. If you have not heard part one yet, stop now. Go back and listen to part one. We did a really good job introducing the topic, and we talked a lot about some of the pain points, about connection or disconnection rather, and loneliness in the gay community. But in this episode, we're going to be talking about how to connect with other gay men in a way that is authentic and meaningful. We'll talk about platonic intimacy, and we'll give you guys some resources and ways to find the connections that you're seeking. All right, so if you are avid listeners of this podcast, you know that emotions are messengers. So if loneliness is an emotion, what is it trying to tell you? Hunger tells you you need food. Tiredness tells you you need sleep. Loneliness is telling you you need connection. But the problem is, and what I've learned is not all connection is the same. It's very easy to get distracted by pseudo connection. But that real connection, which is the energy that exists between people when they feel seen, heard, and valued, that real connection requires vulnerability. It requires authenticity. Brene Brown, who is an expert in my opinion on this stuff, has a quote that I love. I don't know if it's actually from her, but I heard it from her that says, true belonging doesn't require us to change who we are. It requires us to be who we are. And I love that. Yeah. So that that's at the cornerstone of a lot of our work here in the game is brotherhood, and Matt and myself personally as well. So being authentic sounds nice, but it's hard. It's hard to do. And there's a lot of really good reasons why we don't do it requires courage. Courage is scary. It requires self awareness. You need to know who you are. You need to know genuinely, deeply what you're desires are, what you're craving, what connection you want. And there's a level of connection to others, or that level of connection to others can never be greater than that level of connection to ourselves. I believe we've said that a few times on this podcast as well.
• 2:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:08
  Speaker A: And it's very much worth repeating. So another thing it requires is to take action. It's. It's nice and easy to kind of sit in the safety of where we are and just think about the problem. But if you want to actually go out there and put yourself forward and put yourself in front of people, it requires that emotional risk of hey, I might get rejected, I might get judged, I might re trigger some old traumas. And that's scary. So my point here is that there's a lot of really good reasons why all this authenticity business sounds very nice, but it's hard to do. Yeah, but the alternative is loneliness, as we talked about in the last episode. And personally, I would rather momentarily be scared and actually deal with my fears than deal with a constant pain of like a chronic loneliness.
• 2:53
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:54
  Speaker A: Okay, so the first question we have today is how can you connect to the gay community in your own way? And I want to underline the in your own way because I think that's really, really important here. So I'm going to speak to that, to that part of it. Okay, so in your own way to me means knowing your true needs. What kind of connection do you want? This was where I kind of went wrong in my, in my kind of experience was I was lonely and filling that void with casual sexual connections. Again, there's nothing wrong with that, guys. I'm not saying that's bad, but it just wasn't a match for what. For what my issue was. My issue was I wanted deep feelings of like intimacy and emotional Disney. And I was trying to fill that with like surface level sexual connections. Not a match. Didn't work and it actually made me feel worse. So there's a. I have my clients do an exercise when we are trying to like kind of fill up their connection circle. And those who come to me that, that present with this kind of issue and the first thing I have them do is literally write it down. There's so much power in taking it from the airy fairy mind or, or feelings and putting it on paper. So what exactly are you looking for when you say you feel lonely or you feel disconnected? What. What is going to fill that void for you? Is it one friend? Are you looking for like a bestie? Are you looking for a small, close knit group of friends? Are you seeking to just want to be part of something bigger? Part of a community or an organization? Are you just looking for people to do stuff with on the weekends? And if so, what kind of stuff? What do you enjoy talking about? What do you enjoy doing? What are your interests? What are your hobbies? If you do want to connect over activities, great. Know that. Say, okay, I want to. I want to connect with people and do things at the same time. Or are you maybe more introverted and laid back and you want to connect with people over hanging out at home or watching a movie or having A coffee, maybe more passive things. So really start to think about what exactly? As you imagine yourself connecting with people, what are you doing, who are you with, what are they like, as you imagine yourself doing it and what you're talking about, it really starts to bring into mind what it is you're looking for. And you again, you get it out of your head and onto paper or a document, on your laptop or phone or something. If you need some structure to this, let me know because this is an exercise that I go through with clients.
• 5:08
  Speaker B: Cool.
• 5:09
  Speaker A: And once we have that, that's just the beginning. Once we have that, then it's so much easier. Like we go through an entire, there's a, I think a six step process, but we go through an entire process. We're like, okay, now that we know what you're looking for, let's identify the, let's look, take a social inventory of who's already in your social circle. Maybe there's some of those people that can actually fill this gap. Maybe not. And if not, where are those people? Start doing some research. I take a very like, method. What's the word I'm looking for here?
• 5:34
  Speaker B: Methodological.
• 5:36
  Speaker A: Thank you. That's a hard word for me. Thank you. Yeah. I take a very methodological approach to this because I see it as. Once you've identified the issue, then it's just a matter of problem solving and it's just basic problem solving.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: That's funny, I did that with that, with solitude. Solid.
• 5:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have, we have each other for our words, thankfully. Matt, what would you add to that about the finding connection in your own way?
• 6:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, this is, this is a big one. This is again, I'd say one of the primary concerns that, that people reach out to me for in my practice is loneliness is a present, like is the presenting factor. And then it's looking at any sort of core wounds that we have around. Like I'm not worthy of, of connection, I'm scared of connect, whatever it might be. So working with fears, core wounds, that's a big part of it, but a lot of it is working with shame. So I think we need to, we need to GR our inauthentic self and shed the inauthentic parts of who we are, which are all the protectors from us feeling, having to feel shame. Right. So maybe it's masculinity, maybe it's perfectionism, maybe it's, you know, like all the things that, that we use to try and, and not let people see who we actually are because we Feel shamed about who we actually are. True, true lonely or loneliness will be alleviated when we, when we're authentic and vulnerable, which is showing up in the truth of who we are. Right. So there is this journey that we have to go on to, to heal the shame that is bind the inauthentic self. And then we can therefore start to let our authentic self merge and emerge. But it is kind of emerging actually because it's like not like we shed one and then the other one comes in. It's kind of like a, it happens at the same time. It's like a dissolving and an integrating kind of. So yeah, that's what I would say. And then once, once, you know, we get to that point where we're more connected to our authentic self and less connected to our inauthentic self, we start to recognize our desires more clearly. Right. Like I want this or I want that or I've. And then we feel safer to go out into community and find it. Right. Whereas if we're hiding behind all of our protectors and we feel a lot of shame. The gay community is very scary, very anxiety provoking.
• 7:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, that is such a good point about the work being not just in taking action, but it's definitely in our work. And we say this all the time, you have to do both. Right. So if you do just action, you're going to go out there and do the things. But guess what, you're still have all your traumas and triggers and everything and it's going to, you're going to self sabotage or it's not, not going to work. Yeah, it's actually going to probably make you feel worse because you're like, oh, I took all this action, I did all these things and still nothing's happening. I still feel lonely because you have to do both. And then on the other hand, if you do all the inner work but don't go out there and put yourself out there at some point, at some point, then that's not gonna, it's also not gonna work. So you really need to do both.
• 8:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, that was me.
• 8:34
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 8:35
  Speaker B: And thank God for the brotherhood, because the brotherhood. I did a lot of deep work, relational work because of the brotherhood. But prior to that I was just a lone wolf trying to do all this relational work internally. And I'm like, you just hit a ceiling. You can't go any further. Right? You can't go any further. You need the triggers, you need the, the mirror of other people. Because just in us, us in isolation, it's too easy to let the ego run the show and, and keep us and projecting our stuff all over the place. So it's, it's important to be doing a lot of this work relationally.
• 9:06
  Speaker A: So.
• 9:06
  Speaker B: I loved what you just said. Like, they're kind of. It's both and not either or.
• 9:10
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. I, I find that if you're listening to this, you're like, oh, no, I don't, I don't have any issue. I don't have any work to do. It always comes out when it's time to like, take the action. That's. Okay, great, we have a plan. Go do it. Yeah. What? Yeah, that's when the fears come up. Okay. Then like, okay, what are you afraid of? What's, what's the fear here? And it's like you had said earlier, some kind of, once we get to the core of it, there's some kind of self worth or shame or past trauma, fear of judgment, fear of rejection, fear of abandonment that I don't know anyone who. That, that doesn't exist for on some level, in some way.
• 9:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And I think the conscious mind is always telling us, like, I do feel worthy. I am enough. I'm not scared of connection. I'm right. And that's like, that's part of the ego. The ego needs to convince us that we aren't these things. Otherwise we'd spend our whole lives in, in feeling our fears and it would. Right. So we need that part. But I'd say the conscious mind is like, it's really governing 10% of who we are. The subconscious mind covers the other 90%. And the con. The subconscious mind speaks in behavior and emotion. Right. Which is what happens when we take action.
• 10:16
  Speaker A: Right.
• 10:16
  Speaker B: If we have emotional responses, it's like the behavior we start to notice. So if you want to see how somebody's actually in the 90 of the totality of who they are, see what they're doing.
• 10:25
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:26
  Speaker B: And see how they feel. Right. How we feel and what we do. What we do, what we move towards in our behaviors will tell you a lot about yourself and others. Right? So, yeah, it's. It's big stuff. It's big stuff. And I think that this is why. This is a big, big issue in our community. And why loneliness is such a big issue is because. And I would even just say in our world, loneliness is a big issue in our world because I think a lot of people are really scared to take action and to feel right. Because in order for us to be able to move towards connection. We need to feel the loneliness, and we need to be willing to do the work to get ourselves to a place of feeling more confident, to get out and seek the connection we desire. Right. So, yeah, yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker A: It's definitely not just a gay thing, but there is. There are certain things about the gay experience of loneliness and feeling disconnected that I think we have unique challenges. Yeah. One of them is this sense of finding intimacy with other gay men that is platonic.
• 11:27
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 11:27
  Speaker A: That has been a big challenge for me and something I only Learned in my 30s. And I've talked about this before in the podcast, but how is it that we can have platonic intimacy with the same kinds of people that we would also have sexual intimacy with? I want to pass this one over to you, man.
• 11:47
  Speaker B: That's a big one. Geez. You know, I would say I'm just. I think I'm just learning the art of this in an authentic way. I've done this many times over my life. I've had friends that I've had sex with. I've had guys that it was casual dating and. Right. I've done this many times before. But I'm at a place now where I'm like, my heart is out. Like, there's no hiding. I'm not really hiding anymore. I've. I don't wear masks, per se. I'm always. I'm putting myself out there. So that's very different. Right. And then because of that, I've kind of, you know, more connected to the stem. Asexual side of me. So. Yeah. How can we have connection with guys that we're having? So the first thing that comes to mind is boundaries. Right. And it's like.
• 12:42
  Speaker A: It'S.
• 12:42
  Speaker B: It's having boundaries around when we're going to engage in certain things and when we're not, it's about being open and having open communication around desire. Like, what am I desiring right now? Like, someone might be desiring romantic connection, while the other person might be just desiring to keep it platonic. And that could be over a period of time, maybe that someone's connecting with somebody else romantically and that that connection feels really charged, really alive. And then the other connection isn't feeling as charged and alive, so they're getting their sexual needs met over here. Right. This will probably happen a little bit more along the lines of somebody in like a. A polyamorous situation or open relationship type situation. So, yeah, I don't know. I think I'm. As you can tell, I'm just thinking on the spot here. Like, I'm like, I'm trying to come up with, with things intuitively, but I think I'm still navigating this and what it means to me to, to have that. And what I'm also trying to override right now is the part of me that wants to gravitate towards the attractive guys. Yeah, right. It's like, and it's interesting because at the retreat we, we brought voice to this. Right. It's like make an effort to move towards people you naturally wouldn't move towards. Don't just. Right. And at the retreat, there was, there was some guys that were definitely conventionally attractive, great bodies. And I think the, the crew did a really good job at, at not goo. Goo gagging and you know, like, and only giving this, these people attention. Right. So yeah, it's definitely a skill. It's a skill that we have to be willing to, to set aside those, those impulses which can be hard because they're biologically hardwired in us. Right.
• 14:33
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 14:34
  Speaker B: Um, but it's possible, it's definitely possible to set that stuff aside and, and yeah, make it happen.
• 14:41
  Speaker A: I think you could have an urge. What I've learned in my journey is you could have an urge or an impulse, as you say, or a desire and hold it, but not act on it. And that has really been the key for me is I could acknowledge I can walk into, obviously I can't turn off my eyes. Like, like, I see what I see and I like what I like. But that's not the point. That's not the point. The point is to be like, okay, obviously, yes, I see this, this man, he's attractive and I'm naturally inclined to want to go towards him. But if I'm in a space such as a retreat or something where the purpose and the intention is to make friends and say, you know, what with my kind of higher thinking mind, what I want and what I actually crave is I want platonic connections, then that's just going to get in the way. And I did this all the time. There's so many guys that I met that could have been great friends for me that it didn't turn out that way because I sexualized it very quickly or once. It wasn't going to go that way. I was like, okay, well, never mind. Bye. I did that a lot. And you know, who knows what could have been? Maybe there were some good friends in there.
• 15:41
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 15:41
  Speaker A: And so that's been my journey. And that also happens in, in my groups as well. In the, the shamelessly gay group and other men's groups, I've done people who, who have been there. I do a very similar thing. Right from the top, right from the intro is, hey, listen, like, of course we're going to be naturally attracted to some people more than others. You're not going to be one, you're not going to be, you're not going to want to be paired with some people and you're going to want to be paired with others. But that's not how that works.
• 16:06
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:07
  Speaker A: And so I kind of tell them for these, whatever, six, eight, 10 weeks, leave that at the door afterwards, go do what you want to do. But in that structure, in that container for that group, really focus on overriding that. Not, not having the attraction, but kind of overriding it with another part of your brain.
• 16:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I like that. It's, I think this is challenging for, for gay men and I include myself in that, in this conversation because we grow up and we, we have desire. Most of us can't meet those desires till much later in our lives. Right. So we were able to go to a gay bar or get on a nap or something like that, which happens much later in our lives. So there's a repression of desire. And I think that leads to fixation, it leads to preoccupation and in some cases compulsion or obsession. Right. And it becomes pathological for some people. So it's hard for them to actually take that threshold and lower it when we, when they're around other gay men. So it becomes this thing where it's like, that's the thing, that's the need that I have to get met. And it's the, it's the biggest need. And as human beings, we know the subconscious will always go towards is the biggest need that we have. Right. So when we start seeking that out. So how can we, how can we start to, to shift that? It's a big question. I don't know if I even have an answer for that, but it's like maybe working with some of the, the, the, the beliefs that we have around limitation, lack of access, scarcity of these connections being available to us and like rewiring that part of us, like we actually can connect there. Now maybe we're not up operating from an old ideology, old systems, old subconscious patterning around. This isn't there for me. I don't have this. So. Right. Because it's like, it's like scarcity mindset. Right. So somebody that grows up in like a, an environment where they didn't have a lot. Maybe their. It was hard for their parents to put food on the table. Well, they can carry that into their. Their adulthood and they could have a lot of abundance, but they could still be in the mindset of there's not enough, you know, you have to eat everything on your plate. You Right. So human beings, we can carry that in. So I would say this is something that thera therapy could probably help override. And then when we stop being so preoccupied with sex, we can therefore open up to probably the need that sits right below sex, which is like, brotherhood. And I want connection and I want, like, camaraderie, and I want these other things that come along with, you know, two. Two people connecting. So that would be my best way to answer it, but I don't know. I'd love to hear from people if they're, you know, other people that are in this space. Whether you're a therapist or a coach or just somebody who thinks de deeply into things. I'd love to hear, you know, what you think your the solution would be to that.
• 18:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, by all means, please let us know. In the YouTube comments, I can tell you what I did. So, you know, I've talked a lot on the podcast about how I went through this phase where, you know, I was seeking casual sex and hookups as a way to kind of treat my loneliness. And then what happened was I realized I wasn't working. And one of the things I did, I had realized, hey, wait a minute. Every gay man I come in contact with, I either have sex with or I just ignore them. And so I'm like, okay, I want to change that. I kind of made a decision like, okay, this needs to be something that I intentionally change because I didn't want that to only be the case. If you do, there's nothing wrong with you. By all means, live your life. But that's not what I wanted. I wanted to be able to have platonic intimacy with gay men and have friends. I wanted a group of friends. I wanted a crew. So what I did is I joined dodgeball, which is very popular here in Toronto. Gay dodgeball. Not because I like dodgeball, not because I'm athletic. In fact, I hate dodgeball, and I'm not athletic. I was terrible at it. But I was like, okay, here's a group of people who are connecting over some sport, game, whatever you want to call it. And it's not about that. Like, it's really just about connecting, having fun, and we do this activity and whatever. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to join this thing. It's only three months, whatever it is, not even maybe two months. And I'm going to test myself. And I went in there with a very clear challenge for Michael. Okay, Michael, we're not going to do that thing that we do. And it was really hard, but that is where the growth came from. So I think if you. If you truly do want to have that platonic intimacy and it's hard for you, like, maybe your story resonates with me. Challenge yourself, but also find people to hold you accountable and to, like, guide you along, whether it's a friend or someone that you love or trust or a therapist or a coach and say, listen, I'm going to do this thing and I just need someone to, like, kind of hold me to it. And you will grow so much. I grew so much from just seeing, oh, wow, look at all my automatic responses. Look at all my natural inclinations, look at all my natural urges and using that experience to really be the healing. And like, okay, now that I see it, now that it's alive, now that it's activated, what am I going to do about it? And that's where my growth came from. And now, now it's very easy for me to just have platonic connections, but I really had to force myself. It's kind of like, what do they call it? Fire by baptism by fire. Is that the thing?
• 21:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:17
  Speaker A: Just throwing me in the deep end. And that's where the growth came. So, I mean, if you're up for that, then that's definitely a way to do it. I think just putting yourself out there and challenging. Challenging yourself.
• 21:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. And I think when. When we have, like, you, I think about your and I's connection. It's like, I feel like, don't need to guard around that. Like, you and I have a very. We have a working relationship. We have a professional relationship. We also have a personal relationship, which is platonic. And we both understand that there's boundari around that. And so that allows us to therefore then be ourselves and be fun and, you know, make sexual innuendos. And they don't have to mean anything, right? So it's like, it's really nice. Like, our connection has really been, like, very healing for me, Right. To like, have a friend that is. That thinks, like, me and, you know, like, and we can have those deeper conversations and we can keep it light and we laugh together, right? So it is really nice. Brotherhood is such a Beautiful feeling, really. Like, it's amazing. It's just friendship is amazing. It's so underrated, and I think it's so healing, you know what I mean? And so is. So is sex and. And. And romance and all these sorts of things. But it's not as complex, Right? Friendship is a little bit more simple, and it's kind of nice to have the simplicities. And, like, I think a lot of trauma and shame can be healed within friendship, and it doesn't need to be as dynamic and complex as romantic relationships. So, yeah, I'd love to see our community place a little bit more emphasis on that.
• 22:51
  Speaker A: And there's a place. And there's a place for everything, right? There's a place for romantic relationships and attraction. There's a place for sexual. There's a place for friendship. Familial, like, there's. There's a place for all of it. And it can all coexist very nicely. But you kind of need to know which one it is that you're craving, which one it is you're missing, where are. Maybe you're really fulfilled in some areas, but not in others. Right. And so asking yourself these questions is really, really important.
• 23:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I agree.
• 23:16
  Speaker A: I think this speaks to also our missions in our work and our joint work with the gayest brotherhood in this podcast. This is an area that we both are very passionate about. This sense of connection, platonic, like making platonic connections with other gay men. It's why we're here. It's why we do what we do.
• 23:37
  Speaker B: Exactly. We.
• 23:38
  Speaker A: We set up these spaces to fulfill that need in a big part, like the Gaiman's Brotherhood Facebook group, and we have rules and structures in place intentionally for that reason.
• 23:51
  Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. It's a platonic community. Right? And if people meet in the platonic community and find romance, like, we are. So for that, look at what happened with you and Star, right? Like, but it is a platonic community, and I think we're very, very conscious about making it be that way. And I think, you know, you look at some of the groups on Facebook that are gay men's groups, they're growing, like, exponentially because they allow shirtless photos. They allow people to, you know, post these things and have sexual conversations, and it's about dating and, you know, so these sorts of things. And it's like, again, it just shows where the priority is for people and. But is that not just perpetuating the problem in our community? Right. Like, we need spaces like this, too, where people can Come and connect. And the. It doesn't have to be primarily built around sex and sexuality and these sorts of things. So. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:47
  Speaker A: And it's sort of knock on that stuff because Lord knows I do that too in my own world.
• 24:51
  Speaker B: Of course.
• 24:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. It's more so like. Like I just said with that challenge, with the challenge I gave to myself with dodgeball is like, hey, what happens if I don't do that? And guess what? The friends I made through that, through that one season I did dodgeball and one season wonder I have to this day. And they're some of my closest friends. And I don't know if I would have had. I don't know if. Matt, like, I think the reason you came into my life when you did is because I had done that work. I think earlier I wouldn't. If you would have been one of those people that I probably would have just sexualized and know wouldn't have worked and we would have gone our separate ways. But like, it just speaks to the fact that, hey, you can't have both. You can make room for sexual connections, but it's also nice for you to have platonic connections as well.
• 25:30
  Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And, you know, sexual connection is readily available to all of us. Scruff, Grindr, Tinder, all the Facebook groups that revolve around that. Like, it's everywhere. Go to the club, you can find it. But it's very limited to have places where it's safe just to look for platonic connection. And I think that's what we're offering. That's very unique and different. Right. And I think that's why we've been very, you know, conscious about making this, that. And being very adamant. No shirtless stuff. Know the things that perpetuate that sexuality. Because. Yeah, right. It's, it's. And, and I'm not saying it's bad to have that. We want that. We want sex. We want all these things. It's a very sex positive community that we come from. But we need to have access to the other things too. It's just so important. Yeah. And I would love it if more people were creating groups that were like making gay friends and these sorts of things. Because we need that. We need that in our community that's not just built around romance.
• 26:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you could talk about sex. Like in my sexual empowerment workshops, we talk about sex without sexualizing each other. And that's such a beautiful thing to have with other people, with other gay men specifically. So why don't we talk about some of the Ways that our viewers and listeners can actually use the community that we created, the Gay Men's Brotherhood, to find connection. We have quite a few. So I can start by two of the kind of more. More obvious ones, more structured areas, and then we can kind of talk more about that.
• 26:51
  Speaker B: Perfect.
• 26:52
  Speaker A: So the first one is the Gay Men's Brotherhood Zoom Hangouts, which we talked about at the beginning and end of every episode. This is the last Thursday of the month. They're completely free. We have the topic of the month, and we provide questions for you guys to stimulate some thoughts. So we provide those questions. If you want to come but you don't want to share, that's perfectly okay. Sharing is not mandatory. We're not going to make you do it. It's very okay just to sit and observe and listen to others. There's a lot of power in that as well. And it gives you. For those of you who do want to share, it gives you an opportunity to speak freely and share your own experiences, insights on topics that we discuss here. So it's very much giving you a chance to see other people, other men who listen to this podcast. You at least have that in common. You're at least in the same group. Actually, you don't even need to be in the Facebook group to join the Zoom Hangouts, by the way. You could just get on our mail list and we'll send you the link. But it's nice to get into a room. And what I find, I love when there's new guys in. In. In our sessions because they don't realize that there's going to be that many people or they don't know who's going to be there. And it's always this, oh, wow, there's other people. And so often when someone's sharing, I have the whole kind of grid of people on my screen and people are like, nodding their heads or we're giving or giving the jazz fingers and whatnot, or people are saying yes. And so much resonates just simply by coming into that space and sharing and realizing, oh, wait, other people feel the same way, or other people get it.
• 28:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. It's one of the highlights of my month, for sure.
• 28:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, me too. I love them. So that's one. That's the Zoom Hangouts. On the last Thursday of the month, Monthly Zoom hangout, new in 2024, we are introducing something called engagement and Connection Circles. So this is a little bit different from the Zoom Hangout, and I'll tell you why. So in this, we are actually going to give the people who come a chance to have their own little mini podcast session. We're going to put you in breakout rooms. Very small breakout rooms. I think we're going to lean in around three is what we're going with. Like, very small. And we're going to give you the questions and topics ahead of time, and we're going to put you in a breakout room. And the purpose there is for you guys to connect, engage with each other. So in the sharing circle, it's more so one person shares and go to the next person. Go to the next person. There's really not a lot of sharing between people in this engagement and connection circle. It's really about you guys, the facilitators kind of stay out of it. And you get a chance to talk to other people. It's kind of like what Matt and I do and Reno on our episodes. And you get to do that for yourself. You get to mimic that. And the purpose there is for you to actually meet and connect with other people in the community. And so in this one, engagement is necessary. You can't just sit back and be a bystander. You do need to engage. The expectation is that you will engage. And this one is. There is a payment for it. It's a very low cost. It's pay what you can. And the cost of this will go back into the community and goes back into running the podcast, our group, and all of our social media. So those are two real easy ways to find some connection within the community. And we have a lot more. And I'll pass it over to Matt.
• 29:57
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I want to just highlight, like, honestly, guys, this podcast has really changed my life in the sense of, like, coming on every week and being able to talk, like, for the most part, like, yes, I'm starting to get better at realizing there's an audience, but it's more of an afterthought. It's like, I'm here, I'm talking with Michael, and we're just bantering. And when Callan was here and Reno, like, it's so healing to my heart to be able to come in each week and have these conversations. So that's what we want to offer, because we've all seen the value in being able to come in and just shoot the. And. And have a conversation. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of the intention behind that. So we're excited to share that. So I'll speak a little bit about some of the ways that we can that you guys can use the Gay Men's Brotherhood because, you know, oftentimes we see people coming in and they're not sure how to use it. They're not sure how to, you know, find connection. We developed the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group as a peer to peer support group. So when we originally first started doing it, it was Michael Callan and I kind of leading the way. And we would have motivational Monday and we, we tried to take it and, and we realized that there was like, like that it was. We wanted to create a community where. Because there's a lot of brilliant people in our community and there's a lot of experience and there's a lot of, there's a lot of value there. So we wanted to create a peer to peer support group. So that shifted about two years ago where we made it more of a peer to peer support group and we kind of pulled back a little bit and allowed the group to kind of police itself. We have a moderation team that still supports with that, but, and it's been great. We, we have a really, we have a lot of leaders in our community that are maybe silent, they're not, you know, recognized, but they are always, you know, commenting and stuff like that. So that's one way, right, to find connection in the community is just to engage. Create a post. When you first get into the group, create a post, you know, just sharing a little bit about who you are. We have a, a prompt post. So if you go into the group and you're new to the group, go up to the, the featured section and, and there's a post that says, you know, introduction post or the, you know, welcome to the group. Read that because that'll give you the, the, you know, the highlight of what we're about. And it'll also point you to a couple questions that you can answer just to get you started. Otherwise, just share a little bit about why you're in the group. What made you decide to want to find it. A great question to answer would be like some of the questions that we've posed in this, like how, you know, what are you seeking? You know, what are you, what are some of the struggles that you have around making friends or connection, these sorts of things, because then that really gives people a chance to, you know, learn about you, and then they might reach out. We also have people, they were, at the beginning, they were putting out posts about where are you from? Right. And then we started getting a lot of people doing that. So we decided to create a Guide. So we have a guide. I think it's guide five. If you go into the guides and it's just like a, you can put where you're from in the world. And we have, I think, 14 different areas in the world. So you go in and all you do is just put where you're from in that area. That's it. It. So I think I just saw you did it, Michael. Right. And I did it too. So you can go into the guide and you can see, choose the area that you're. That where you're from, and you can see all the people and where they're from within that region. If you have not done this yet, please go and do that. Because we want it to be like a little mini informal directory where people can go and find other people. And then once you see that, you can private message them and. But this is where things get a little sticky because just because you private message somebody doesn't mean that they're going to want connection with you. Right? So we, we, we, we caution people that this is, you know, something that we're, we're creating an opportunity for people. So some people have their spam folder turned on. So anybody that messages them that they're not friends with, it just goes into their spam folder. They don't see it otherwise. If you're open to this connection, great. It's a great way for you to build a connection. And it's important also to evaluate why don't I want connection with this person? Is it because I just went and scanned their profile and I and looked through all their pictures and they're not attractive to me, so therefore I don't want connection with them. Right. So question your intention. And if there's an opportunity here for you to maybe seek connection with somebody and keep it platonic, that can be an option as well. So there's that. And then I want to say too, one of the ways that I've, that I've made connection in this community is people reach out and I hop on a zoom. This happens all the time. And I do this with guys that are on the podcast. So all of my guests have all been vetted and I hop on zoom with them, spend, you know, 30 minutes to an hour with them just getting to know them, what they're about. We feel into our vibe. This is how I've made my connections in the community, a lot of them. I also started to meet other demisexuals from me doing the demisexual podcast, people reaching out, being like, I'M demisexual. So I ended up starting a demisexual group and we were, we ran for two and a half years and that was really, really healing and fulfilling, you know, so use the community in the way that feels good for you. So that might be reaching out to people. Hop on a zoom. It might be like, you know, oh, I identify that, you know, these people tend to be really, they always comment on the things that I'm commenting on. Maybe we have mutual interests. Can we maybe all hop on a zoom and talk about this? Right. Things like that. One thing I want to preface with that though is that this is not a group to fill your therapy practice or your coaching practice. We have this a lot where people come in and they, they try almost like poaching people from the community. And that's not what, that's not what we're here for. We're not here for people to, to do that or get people into their men's groups, things like that. So mind if you're going to do that, that you're doing it from a place that's altruistic and, and that you're genuinely looking for connection with people, not just that there was some sort of motivation around, you know, making money off of people or anything like that. So be mindful and if any, if you notice anybody in the community that's doing that, please reach out to, to our moderation team and let them know so we can take care of that because that's a big no in our community. Okay. And then lastly, I will say retreats.
• 36:07
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 36:07
  Speaker B: So this has been a promise for a long time, but we've had some stuff that got in the way of this. The biggest one being Covid, the second biggest one is I've been going through a lot of stuff in the last year and a half and I just haven't had any, any capacity or bandwidth to take on new projects. So Michael and I are working on this and it's going to happen probably the closer to the end of 2024. It's looking like where we're going to have our first big retreat and but before that we might have some sort of in person thing where it's a little bit less big, but who knows? We're working on some stuff, we're working on a masterclass that Michael and I are going to facilitate together. So we got a lot of cool things coming down the pipeline. 2024, like I said, is going to be the year of connection and mostly in person. We want a lot of in person connection happening. So stay tuned for that. If you're not yet on the email list, please get on the email list because that is the first place that we're going to be. Like anybody that's on our email list, they get first dibs to everything and then we would secondarily put stuff in the Facebook group and then talk about it on here. So. But getting on our email list is, is probably the best way to stay connected with those things. Okay. Last thing I want to say is just a couple things that I noticed in the group that actually causes division, separation, things like that, that really get in the way of people connecting and it's more conflictual. And so I see that there's some, some common characters that show up in our community that are keyboard warriors and they're very opinionated and these sorts of things. To be honest, people don't want to connect with people like that. Like you come in and you're a warrior and you're super opinionated and, and there's no room for curiosity. It's all about judgment. Be mindful that you're not that person. Okay. And if you are that person and it's coming from a place of deep pain within you, then get into some coaching or some therapy. So you can work on that. Because it's really important if you're wanting connection that you're not showing up in ways that are harsh and callous because people don't want to connect with people like that. So. So being a keyboard warrior and proving how right you are will not get you connection in our community. Sharing your opinions respectfully will. Right, because people like that, people who are humble and, and also still assertive in their opinions, that can be a really, really attractive quality. Avoid using the space for dumping a dumping ground for your trauma as this can be off putting for people. So if you have a lot of trauma that you're navigating, this is a safe place for sure. But coming in and just unloading it on everybody can be really off putting. So again, if you're struggling and you have a lot of trauma that you're unpacking, you know, get into therapy, start working with these things and, and then share from a place of, you know, what you're navigating as opposed to doing it unconsciously or projecting it into the community. And then yeah, the last thing is avoid using the space for self promotion. It's just not the space for that. So yeah, are there any things that you, anything that you think would be good to avoid using the community for that you see would be like a reason why people would, would disconnect or become separated.
• 39:16
  Speaker A: I think those are the main ones you really hit. A lot of the ones that I think we see most often, maybe some do's or some things you can do to connect. Is not that, not what we just said, but ask open ended questions. So even if you do want to like tell a story or something, throw an open ended question at the end of it or just ask a question to the community, like hey guys, this is a great peer support. Here's my question, here's what I'm going through. What would you do? What do you think those posts tend to do really, really well. And it's so nice to see we have so much wisdom and so much insight within this community that people can share their experiences and it's really nice. So that's, that's definitely something you can do and we. You should do.
• 39:59
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:59
  Speaker A: Another thing you do is actually you can, if you listen to the podcast, tell us, you know, don't tell us, but like say, hey, I heard Matt say this in the podcast and here are my thoughts on that. What do you guys think? And you can kind of continue the conversation we have here in that method on that forum.
• 40:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I like that. And this is the other thing I'll say is I, I see a lot of people going into people's comments like what you said and like when people have opinions about something and they're like kind of like beating them down or they're, they're judging them or whatever. Like why can't we not bring each other up? Like just say like, you know, look, instead of going into their post and looking for the thing that you can disagree with, why don't you go into the post and looking for something that you can agree with and create bond similarity, right? And make people feel good. Like that's what we want this space to be is a peer to peer support group, right? Not a peer to peer debate group. It's like so like be supportive of one another and say, you know, offer people love. Most of us are looking in this life to be seen, to be heard, to be loved, to be valued, right? Like, and that's why we're doing. Even if we're showing up in these harsh ways, that's still usually the motivation of why we're doing what we're doing. Because those four things I just listed are, we're not feeling them. So we're angry, right? So the more we can make people feel valued, seen, heard validated these sorts of things, the more people are going to be open and open hearted. Right. So try your best to lead with love as much as you can in our community because it's. It's powerful. Love is powerful.
• 41:30
  Speaker A: We talk about that all the time. It's powerful. Kindness, respect, humility. These are all things that are pretty unanimously sought after in other people. Right. So if you want connection, yeah, like lead with that respect, even if you don't like not saying that. You have to agree with everybody. I certainly don't if you don't agree with me. But it's so nice when like someone will leave me a comment or DME basically saying, hey, listen, that's not my experience. I don't agree with you. Here's what I think. But thank you so much for telling me berth. But thank you so much for kind of showing me your side of things. I'm left with such a good feeling from that encounter that I will absolutely continue to engage with this person, even if we disagree.
• 42:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I love that. And I think this is where the connection engagement circles will help because I think there's some people that think that the keyboard, being behind the keyboard is. It's okay to insult people or be rude or be mean and these sorts of things. And I think these, you know, I always, I always think whenever I'm writing stuff on those sorts of platforms, I don't do a ton actually, to believe it or not, but I always think like I'm writing to them as if I am sitting across from. In a zoom room. Right. Or in person, like, would I actually say that to them if I was sitting across from them? Because that's really how we should be leading with these sorts of things, not just hiding behind our keyboards or our phones. Right?
• 42:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also notice where you might feel resistance to coming to the engagement and connection circle or the monthly sharing circle, like if you want connection, but you're not. And we have this, we have this invitation, this opportunity for you to do so and you're not taking it. That's a really good place to ask yourself why. And going back to what we talked about today is, is there a trigger? Is there a trauma? Is there a fear? And this could be the exact opportunity for you to work through that.
• 43:22
  Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Amen to that. So those are in February, right? Those are coming in February?
• 43:29
  Speaker A: Yes, that's the plan. Yes. February. Or if not then, then shortly thereafter. But soon.
• 43:35
  Speaker B: Okay, cool.
• 43:37
  Speaker A: All right. Anything else you'd want to add, Matt?
• 43:41
  Speaker B: No, I'm just excited for this year. 2024 is going to be the year of connection, and I just feel like it's going to be a really good year.
• 43:50
  Speaker A: So I'm excited and it's really nice. I'm really excited to be offering in person connections as well, because there's nothing wrong with virtual. I love virtual. I mean, I knew you, Matt, virtually for a very long time before we met in person. There's really something special about that energy exchange that happen. You can connect in person. So I'm really excited to be offering that. And Matt and I are going to do a really good job, as we have in our virtual space, of curating it so that it is really structured for and built for nurturing the kinds of connections that you want. So I'm really excited about that.
• 44:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good job hosting today. You did great.
• 44:25
  Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited. It's not often that we get to talk to our listeners about what we're doing behind the scenes in the community, so it's always a nice thing to let them in behind the scenes.
• 44:35
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 44:37
  Speaker A: All right. For our viewers and listeners, thank you for sticking with us for these two episodes. If you have enjoyed what you've been listening to here, please give us a rating and a review on Apple, podcasts or any podcast platform. Tell us what you think. What happens is a lot of you guys will email us at the infoamensbrotherhood, or you'll DM Matt, or you'll DM me or both of us, and you'll tell us how much you love the podcast, how much it's changed your life, how great it's been. People will come up to me in person and tell me that, and I love it. But it would be really helpful if you took that review and put it into the review section of the podcast because it really helps the podcast and it helps us get into the ears of other people who need it, of other people who might be suffering and feeling alone and feel like, oh, I wish there was someone I can talk to with this stuff. So please do that and write us a review, give us the five stars and really tell people what they can expect from this podcast. That would be really helpful.
• 45:32
  Speaker B: Exactly. Especially on Apple. I think something like 80% of our listeners listen through Apple. So if you can go on Apple and leave us a review and a star rating, a five star rating, that would be tremendous. Yeah.
• 45:45
  Speaker A: And otherwise, if you're watching us on YouTube, as always, please drop a comment in the YouTube. We love to read those and get back to you. And if you're not already subscribed, please subscribe to us and definitely get on our mailing list. As Matt said, that is exactly where you're going to find all the latest and greatest about our Zoom hangouts, about our retreats, about our connection circles. We email you as soon as the episode is released on Thursdays, you're going to get an email with a link to that episode. So it's really a good place to be. And that's all I think we've got for you guys today. So thank you for sticking with us and we'll see you on the next episode.
• 46:18
  Speaker B: Bye.