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Transcript

Beyond the Scroll: How Social Media Is Reshaping B2B Brands · We Built This Brand

• 0:00
  Luke: In general, we are moving more and more to learning on social media.
• 0:06
  Chris: Welcome to We Built This Brand, where we pull back
• 0:08
  the curtain on the people, the ideas, and the sometimes
• 0:11
  challenging process of building something that matters.
• 0:14
  Today, I'm joined by Luke Lineberger, the first ever global head of social media
• 0:19
  at Gravity Global, the world's most awarded independent B2B marketing agency.
• 0:24
  Luke started out as a copywriter with an MFA in creative writing,
• 0:27
  and now he leads social strategy across Gravity's teams in the
• 0:31
  US and the UK for brands like Cummins, Transamerica, and Sovos.
• 0:37
  In this episode, we get into what it takes to build a brand new global
• 0:40
  function from scratch, why B2B social is so much more than lead gen,
• 0:45
  and how a storyteller's instinct shapes the way he thinks about a brand.
• 0:48
  So without further ado, here's my conversation
• 0:51
  with Luke Lineberger from Gravity Global.
• 0:58
  Luke, welcome to We Built This Brand.
• 1:00
  It's great to have you with us today.
• 1:01
  Luke: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:02
  Really excited to be here.
• 1:04
  Chris: Absolutely.
• 1:05
  Well, how I like to generally start these interviews is
• 1:08
  to just get to know a little bit about your background
• 1:10
  and how you got to where you are today at Gravity Global.
• 1:13
  So where'd you get your start?
• 1:15
  Luke: Yeah, well, you know, coming out of college studying,
• 1:18
  uh, sociology and creative writing, marketing felt like
• 1:22
  the perfect place to kind of put those two pieces together.
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  And so I got my start at Boco Creative, uh, which was a boutique agency
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  in Denver, um, and really got to just have my hands dirty and be a
• 1:35
  part of so many different parts of the agency experience, uh, and,
• 1:40
  and really, you know, see how the, the agency side of things worked.
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  Uh, and then that's, you know, progressed into
• 1:47
  being, us getting acquired by Gravity Global.
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  And so, uh, for the last, you know, three years now, been, uh, working
• 1:55
  over here with Gravity Global and really excited to kind of just
• 1:59
  further develop and build out the social media offering, uh, really
• 2:03
  make sure that our, our team is globalized and that we're building and,
• 2:08
  and bringing the best, uh, just opportunities, new ways of working,
• 2:12
  and everything like that within the social media space to our clients.
• 2:16
  So it's been a really fun transition from kind of the
• 2:19
  boutique side to working into a global setting and bigger
• 2:22
  teams and bigger clients and all that type of stuff, so.
• 2:26
  But a natural transition, I think, from, you know, kind of what I
• 2:29
  was originally passionate about and studying, you know, how people
• 2:33
  work and behave and, uh, but also having that creative touch.
• 2:38
  And so it's been a really fun and natural progression, I think, to get into,
• 2:42
  uh, you know, where I'm at today with Gravity Global and, um, being able to kind
• 2:47
  of put some of my favorite side, you know, passions and interests into my work.
• 2:52
  Chris: I mean, that's quite the adventure, too, to,
• 2:54
  to go from small agency to, to big agency as well.
• 2:59
  What, what was that transition like for you?
• 3:01
  'Cause when you start small, I mean, there's a big difference between
• 3:04
  working for a smaller agency to something as, as big as what Gravity is.
• 3:08
  Luke: Yeah, transition is definitely… It- it's
• 3:10
  so fun to go through that type of change, right?
• 3:14
  Uh, just to see how different things work, right?
• 3:16
  And the different ways that you can support a
• 3:19
  client, right, and, and be a part of that process.
• 3:23
  So the, the change is, is definitely big though, and I think part of
• 3:27
  that process was really understanding what makes a boutique agency
• 3:33
  special in terms of, uh, how you're able to service a client and, you
• 3:38
  know, be a little bit closer, uh, through the entire process, and how
• 3:42
  that model then kind of carries over into a larger setting, right?
• 3:46
  And it's really being able to trust, you know, the team
• 3:49
  members that you have in different departments, right?
• 3:51
  But also building close connections and making sure that
• 3:54
  that model of staying informed on everything that's happening
• 3:58
  across the The work stream, uh, for the client, right?
• 4:02
  And, and everything that we're doing from paid media to
• 4:05
  production to the social media side of things, right?
• 4:08
  Making sure that that's overall, you know, c- communication
• 4:12
  loop and, uh, understanding of, of the work is, is really tight.
• 4:16
  So it's definitely a big jump where you're kind of in
• 4:21
  the weeds with everything versus just being informed.
• 4:25
  But it was great for us to, uh, at least for me, I think, to really
• 4:30
  understand what made the boutique side successful and, and what that
• 4:35
  power that, and, and capabilities that came from the knowledge of,
• 4:39
  of everything that has made the transition into a larger setting,
• 4:44
  y- you know, more doable and more natural of, uh, just kind of being
• 4:49
  able to figure out how you replicate that model in a different way.
• 4:53
  But the other thing too is that it's just been fantastic to be
• 4:55
  with a, a bigger team and have so many, you know, talented folks
• 5:00
  that you get to learn from and tap into, and those types of things.
• 5:04
  So it has been really nice to just have more to, to be able to call on.
• 5:09
  Chris: It's interesting.
• 5:09
  I've been a part of a few mergers and acquisitions myself, and that
• 5:13
  change is always a little uncertain, but always seems like it's really
• 5:17
  cool when you can get something, you know, good out of the process too.
• 5:21
  So I'm glad to hear it was a positive transition for your team.
• 5:23
  And as part of that too, like, I mean, let's
• 5:25
  talk a little bit about more about your role now.
• 5:27
  You're currently the head of global, um, social media, or is
• 5:31
  it global head of social media, I think is the official title?
• 5:32
  Global head of social media, yep.
• 5:34
  So global head of social media, that's a big role to fill.
• 5:38
  Um, and how did you get into social media, like from a professional angle
• 5:44
  versus just, hey, it's something I use in my everyday life, and why has
• 5:48
  it become something that has been such a big part of your career for you?
• 5:52
  Luke: Yeah, uh, definitely a major shift in terms of, you
• 5:56
  know, again, kind of what the, the role itself looks like.
• 5:59
  In terms of, you know, kind of start, how I got into it, I
• 6:02
  think one of the big things was in a lot of ways a need, right?
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  It's just the simple need and understanding where
• 6:11
  social media was moving into our marketing space, right?
• 6:14
  And so then the growth of social media within that and the
• 6:17
  importance really became something where as, as an agency, we just
• 6:22
  recognized we needed to be able to fulfill this more and more.
• 6:26
  And so it, it originated out of the need, but then I think
• 6:30
  it really grew from the, the interest and the, uh, the
• 6:35
  passion for, you know, we have this vibrant community.
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  We get to tap into what the, uh, the behaviors and the, the communities
• 6:44
  that they're building and, and how they're interacting with each other.
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  And so I think it really grew from that kind of passion.
• 6:50
  But moving into then this role has been something that- you know, obviously
• 6:55
  has a lot of other pieces of, you know, how do we make sure that audiences
• 7:00
  in these different parts of the world, uh, that we have a system that is able
• 7:05
  to be repeated and, and optimized for clients in so many different places.
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  So it, it's been a big, um, you know, effort for us to make sure that
• 7:15
  our, our team throughout the globe is, is really, um, unified, that we
• 7:18
  have those best practices, but that each team member in kind of their
• 7:22
  respected area is also empowered to understand the nuances, uh, that come
• 7:28
  in their, their region, um, or, or with different, you know, platforms.
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  You know, our, our UK team members, uh, WhatsApp is a, a major platform
• 7:37
  over there for them and, you know, for my US-based team members that's
• 7:41
  just-- and, and clients, that's not something that we really worry about.
• 7:44
  That's not, uh, that's a travel app for us
• 7:47
  more so than a, a day-to-day app, you know?
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  And so, uh, those are the nuances that we, we need to make
• 7:52
  sure that each kinda team member and location is, is really
• 7:55
  prepared to, uh, excel in and, and provide to our clients.
• 7:59
  So Um, you know, we have the unification process as many ways as we can,
• 8:03
  but also that, that nuanced and kind of niche approach where it needs to be.
• 8:07
  Chris: And you mentioned the unification process,
• 8:09
  so obviously keeping the team unified is important.
• 8:12
  What about the social media content you're producing?
• 8:14
  Is that also focused on staying unifi- unified as well?
• 8:18
  Or how do you, how do you handle that from client to client?
• 8:22
  Luke: Yeah, I think there's so many key ways that things kind
• 8:27
  of can and maybe should fall into what best practices truly are.
• 8:32
  And of course, there are the nuances from industry to
• 8:36
  industry, um, platform to platform, and those types of things.
• 8:40
  But there's kind of some truths that, you know, making sure the
• 8:44
  entire department and then, you know, we bring to our clients is, is
• 8:48
  consistent, and that's having a platform-specific strategy, right?
• 8:52
  That's, uh, making sure that, you know, when we're telling complex, uh,
• 8:58
  stories or, uh, conveying that information on behalf of our clients, right?
• 9:02
  Something that's really technical and, and needs to be solid from an
• 9:06
  educational standpoint, that it's socialized, that it's something that
• 9:10
  can be told through a, a simple and compelling, uh, narrative arc.
• 9:16
  Um, I think there's the truths in, in general
• 9:19
  of what makes good social media content, right?
• 9:22
  Uh, and that's, you know, everything pretty much needs to be either
• 9:25
  educational, entertaining, or provocative in some way, right?
• 9:29
  That's how we stop the scroll, that's how
• 9:31
  we stand out in the mass amounts of content.
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  Uh, and so those are the types of things that we
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  really can make sure we bring universally, right?
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  And, and that are truly kind of integrated across, uh, team members and,
• 9:44
  and clients regardless of where they are or what, you know, regardless
• 9:47
  of what industry they're in, that really, you know, do make a difference
• 9:52
  and, uh, help them stand out in the loud noise that, that is social media.
• 9:57
  Chris: So with this global team, what's the hardest
• 9:59
  part about creating consistency across markets?
• 10:02
  Luke: You know, I think the toughest piece, um, is making sure that
• 10:08
  the skills and, uh, the, the ability to tap into those skills is being
• 10:15
  unified as much as possible, but then also, like I said, having that
• 10:17
  opportunity to go and spend that time and make sure that you're educated
• 10:23
  and really strong in the areas that need to be, um, localized, right?
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  And so I think it's, it's really trying to empower those team members from
• 10:33
  that localization level and from, uh, the specifics within their industry.
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  I think one of the big things that comes up across our
• 10:43
  clients is social media's the, like, the speaker, right?
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  That's where so many people see you first.
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  You have so many CEOs, you have so many, uh, execs or board members
• 10:55
  that see that content, and so we need to make sure that we really
• 10:59
  allow our team members to become experts in those fields, right?
• 11:03
  That's the content, that's the, the comment section that so many eyes are on.
• 11:09
  I think that's the biggest challenge really, right?
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  Is, is making sure, you know, they have the skills that they need and, and
• 11:14
  all those things within the respected platforms and localization piece.
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  But then it's bringing that expertise for them to truly run and, uh, be
• 11:23
  able to, to feel like the human, uh, side of the brand on social, right?
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  And, and bring that to life, um, through
• 11:30
  that just deep expertise of the industry.
• 11:32
  And that, you know, that takes time, it takes a dedication to it, it takes a, a
• 11:36
  passion to want to be able to really tell that story on behalf of your clients.
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  And, and so that's where we, you know, we work really hard
• 11:42
  to do that, and something we really pride ourselves on.
• 11:45
  But that's definitely one of the bigger challenges of just you
• 11:48
  really have to be the, the expert and the voice, uh, within these
• 11:54
  different industries and ultimately for, you know, each client.
• 11:57
  So Uh, but it's fun too.
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  I think that's one of the things that makes it really fun and
• 12:02
  interesting in, uh, becoming an expert in, you know, these little niche
• 12:07
  areas that you just, you never would've expected yourself, uh, to be.
• 12:10
  So it's awesome.
• 12:11
  Chris: Yeah.
• 12:11
  Yeah.
• 12:12
  You probably know some pretty, pretty interesting facts
• 12:15
  about different brands you never would've even thought
• 12:18
  to care to look up before, beforehand- Yeah … I'm sure.
• 12:21
  Yep.
• 12:21
  Yeah.
• 12:22
  And, and I noticed you had done, um, two
• 12:24
  different projects in the aviation industry.
• 12:26
  I'm a big flight nerd, aviation nerd, so I thought it was cool
• 12:29
  to see y'all had worked with Embraer and with Airbus and, um,
• 12:33
  yeah, I mean, two very different companies in terms of the markets
• 12:37
  they serve, but they also still both serve the airline industry.
• 12:41
  Um, so what, what is that challenge like?
• 12:43
  Like w- when you're working with a B2B brand, maybe not
• 12:46
  specifically those two, but like, how, how does it look working
• 12:50
  and operating differently with a B2B brand than, say, a B2C,
• 12:53
  or a business to consumer, or a consumer product good company?
• 12:56
  Luke: You know, one of the biggest challenges, or, or things
• 13:00
  that then becomes a difference between the B2B side and the
• 13:05
  B2C side is how the b- the purchasing journey looks, right?
• 13:12
  Uh, and ultimately the role that we can play, right?
• 13:15
  When we're in a, a B2C standpoint, um, it might not always be
• 13:19
  the shortest purchasing journey, but, you know, we know that we
• 13:23
  can typically expect those to be on, a little bit on the shorter
• 13:26
  side, and, uh, that that can be, you know, something that is very
• 13:31
  kind of quick fun, engaging, you know, those types of things.
• 13:34
  There's kind of this natural way that people understand
• 13:38
  B2C, uh, social media to be able to play within.
• 13:42
  And I think the biggest shift that we're seeing in, in
• 13:46
  working with clients on is how B2B can somewhat learn
• 13:51
  from and replicate those pieces from the B2C side, right?
• 13:56
  Um, and that's making content that is still powerful
• 14:00
  in the education that it's, uh, providing or, you know,
• 14:04
  understanding that this is a long purchasing journey, right?
• 14:07
  And we have to have really strong and numerous touch points with
• 14:10
  them to ultimately be able to, you know, build the awareness and
• 14:15
  the trust and then, you know, get them to that consideration point.
• 14:18
  But one of the things that, you know, is, is really kind of that, that challenge
• 14:22
  there that, that can be taken from the B2C is, uh, telling a story, right?
• 14:27
  And, and not having it be so dense in the actual, you
• 14:32
  know, here's the product specs that we bring, or here's the
• 14:34
  amazing solution that we're gonna provide for your business.
• 14:36
  We're gonna, you know, save you here and here.
• 14:39
  But building that actual story and that narrative piece that,
• 14:43
  uh, can make the biggest difference, I think is just naturally
• 14:46
  a little bit easier or more common in the B2C space, um, that
• 14:51
  really empowers our B2B clients when, when they buy into that.
• 14:56
  Um, and so we work really hard to, you know, bring in that,
• 15:00
  um, of course, you know, that hook, but be able to, to tell
• 15:03
  them through that kind of, you know, here's the pain point that
• 15:05
  you're experiencing and here's the solution, um, that we provide.
• 15:10
  But have that be told through a much more
• 15:12
  social first and story led perspective.
• 15:16
  Uh, and so I think that's where, you know, we're really seeing
• 15:20
  the bigger obstacles become smaller with B2B, um, as for such
• 15:24
  a long time, that was a, I, I have this article, I have this
• 15:28
  dense information, like you, you just gotta let us post it.
• 15:31
  This is where we, you know, we've gotta make sure
• 15:33
  that we, we tell them about this new offering.
• 15:37
  And so I think we're starting to see that little bit of a
• 15:38
  transition from what was Typically a bit more dense, um,
• 15:45
  and a bit more of businesses speaking at businesses, right?
• 15:50
  Versus with them.
• 15:51
  And I think that conversation point's really what's kind of changing now.
• 15:55
  Chris: You mentioned something interesting in that about how you're talking
• 15:58
  about, um, the, the touch points to, to convert a customer and to get a sale,
• 16:03
  and you know, obviously not everybody's gonna go out and buy, you know, a f-
• 16:08
  a fleet of trucks that need Cummins engines or, you know, a bunch of Airbuses.
• 16:13
  Like, that's not your everyday consumer.
• 16:16
  And so I, I feel like, in my observation, marketing, like, I
• 16:20
  think marketing always plays a little bit of a sales function.
• 16:22
  You're trying to point people to the product.
• 16:24
  You're trying to make them aware of it.
• 16:25
  You're trying to drive people to, um, to make those purchases.
• 16:29
  But I think more so in B2B, it truly is a strategic part of the sales process.
• 16:35
  Do you see it that way, or how do you see it?
• 16:38
  Luke: I, I think 100%.
• 16:39
  And, you know, i- in general, I think there's been a, a shift, right?
• 16:45
  And part of this is numerous and, and reasons why from, you know, search
• 16:51
  engine preferences to LLMs and AI and those types of things, but you know, in,
• 16:57
  in general, we are moving more and more to learning on social media, right?
• 17:03
  Uh, and a lot of discovery is happening there, and I think that because
• 17:08
  of that, more than ever before, marketing is really, really key to
• 17:14
  the, the B2B and the long sales journey Um, especially, and so I see
• 17:20
  that as a place where, you know, before I could understand arguments
• 17:24
  a little bit more of, you know, there's, it's a relationship thing.
• 17:27
  There are, you know, again, this is a long purchasing
• 17:30
  journey that we need two to three years to get a fleet,
• 17:34
  you know, order from start to finish and, and everything.
• 17:37
  So, but in today's world, there's so much more of that that
• 17:40
  is truly occurring on social media and in the s- the general
• 17:43
  marketing, uh, funnel of, of truly gaining your education there,
• 17:48
  um, building that trust and building relationships that way.
• 17:51
  I think another thing that really, you know,
• 17:52
  kind of accelerated that was the pandemic, right?
• 17:55
  Where we had to move into a more virtual space.
• 17:57
  We had to move into a more digital space.
• 17:59
  Uh, and that put that much more emphasis on marketing power
• 18:03
  to be able to really deliver and, and help close that gap.
• 18:07
  So I think, you know, ultimately you're 100% to be able
• 18:09
  to get to where things needed to be, um, marketing had
• 18:13
  to really step up and play a key role in full funnel.
• 18:17
  Um, but, but truly too, having the power to actually lead
• 18:21
  to that conversion much more than just a, an awareness play
• 18:25
  or, you know, you know, kind of at best a consideration.
• 18:28
  I think it's really had to pick up in the last, you know, five, six
• 18:31
  years to carry that extra weight and, and lead to the actual conversion.
• 18:37
  Chris: That makes total sense, and I mean, it's also,
• 18:40
  as I was-- as you were talking, I was thinking about
• 18:42
  how it's also a bit of a perception play too, right?
• 18:45
  Like, you want people to think that, "Oh, if my airline is buying
• 18:48
  Airbus," you want people to have a positive association with that product.
• 18:53
  You don't wanna… Like, you know, if, if I heard, um, just a few years ago,
• 18:56
  no, no shade to Boeing, but maybe some, but, um, you know, when they, when
• 19:00
  they had the, um, the whole issue with their, what was it, their 737-900-
• 19:06
  Luke: Couple incidents
• 19:07
  Chris: yeah, they had a couple incidents that got scary.
• 19:08
  Like, who wants to fly on that anymore?
• 19:10
  You know, that ends in canceled sales or things like
• 19:13
  that, and if you have a good marketing and PR team, and
• 19:16
  more importantly, good engineers that fix the problem-
• 19:18
  Luke: Yeah
• 19:19
  … Chris: you can work through that negative perception and make it positive again.
• 19:22
  You know, and I think, you know, something I've always liked about
• 19:25
  Airbus, you know, I'm using it as an example 'cause it's on, it's one
• 19:28
  of the key case studies on your website, but, um, you know, Airbus,
• 19:32
  you know, has had a lot more reliability, a lot more quality, you know,
• 19:37
  tied to its name, and I think that's where people really recognize it.
• 19:41
  So, um, yeah, so it has a longer term value too to the,
• 19:45
  the consumer as well to be able to market like that.
• 19:48
  But that's, it's a fascinating place to
• 19:50
  be in that, in that part of the industry.
• 19:52
  So as, as we look into the, the branding of the business and everything, how
• 19:57
  do you see branding playing into your, your day-to-day role in social media?
• 20:01
  Where do you think that your, your operation stands
• 20:04
  in terms of how you represent the brands you support?
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• 20:49
  Luke: I, I think it's huge.
• 20:50
  And, you know, again, kind of from that earlier
• 20:52
  point of we are in many ways the front lines, right?
• 20:57
  And that's, uh, something that's changed, uh, obviously right over the
• 21:01
  years in, in marketing, but social media really has become the, the
• 21:05
  front lines and the first touching point, uh, in a lot of ways, right?
• 21:07
  What even has kind of shifted from the website, you know, as
• 21:12
  our first learning place or, uh, the billboard that we see.
• 21:15
  You know, social media's kind of grown into that.
• 21:17
  And so for us it's, it's really important that we A, understand the
• 21:22
  brand, that we work really closely with any branding work that is
• 21:25
  going on, uh, for us to ensure that's, that is coming to life, and
• 21:30
  that is being properly executed across the, the s- social media sphere.
• 21:35
  But there's also kind of a, a bit of some nuance there too, where
• 21:38
  we want to make sure we represent the brands, you know, uh, in the
• 21:42
  right way, um, and that that branding piece is really coming to life.
• 21:45
  But, um, to also give it some freedom in some areas of, of, you
• 21:51
  know, where it can be its own, and where it can kind of move.
• 21:54
  Um, you know, when we look at platform-to-platform differences, and the
• 21:59
  audience members, and the expectations of, you know, brands on those, uh,
• 22:04
  platforms, I think that's really kind of where our branding challenge and,
• 22:08
  uh, opportunity really comes to life in, in terms of, you know, how does, for
• 22:12
  Airbus, for example, right, how do they show up on LinkedIn versus Instagram?
• 22:17
  And, you know, th- that can be dramatically different in terms of
• 22:21
  what their, their goals are, uh, on those two platforms, right?
• 22:24
  And so it's understanding the, the branding and making sure that that branding's
• 22:28
  coming to life, but also understanding kind of what are our lines, right?
• 22:32
  And where should we be moving and adapting to best, you know, reach and, and
• 22:39
  resonate with those different audience members and those different desires.
• 22:43
  So it's, it's really fun and, and … But I think really crucial for
• 22:47
  us to be able to have the ability to kind of dial up those meters
• 22:51
  a little bit here and, you know, turn 'em back a little bit there.
• 22:54
  But that y- ultimately comes down to us being, y- deeply part of the
• 22:58
  process, and having a great understanding of what that full branding, uh,
• 23:03
  picture looks like, so that we, we can do that and can execute it properly.
• 23:08
  Um, but th- I think those are also where you see brands succeed the most, right?
• 23:11
  Is when they can make those adjustments in the places that they need to.
• 23:16
  Chris: Absolutely.
• 23:17
  No, I mean, that makes a lot of sense in this day and age.
• 23:20
  You gotta be adaptable to whatever comes your way, and, yeah,
• 23:24
  being able to listen to the customer's kind of important.
• 23:27
  So yeah, makes a lot of sense.
• 23:30
  So I, I … When I was looking at your website, one, one
• 23:32
  thing I noticed that Gravity talked about is the FAB model.
• 23:36
  Can you tell me a little bit more about that and what that means?
• 23:39
  Luke: Yeah, so FAB is, uh, one of our, uh, i- it's really kind of our, our baby.
• 23:44
  It's our proprietary approach, right?
• 23:46
  And it really just stems from the belief that for a brand
• 23:51
  to really excel, and to truly be successful, and take off,
• 23:55
  and grow to whatever that next stage is, and compete, right?
• 24:00
  Is for us to be able to tell them, right?
• 24:04
  And, and bring in that, those metrics and that reporting
• 24:07
  and, and then help build up, uh, and make sure that they're,
• 24:11
  they're growing in the areas of fame, admiration, and belief.
• 24:15
  Uh, and so, you know, it's, it's what are you known for, right?
• 24:19
  Right?
• 24:19
  And it's, it's what do you want people to know you for, right?
• 24:23
  What do you want them to believe in you?
• 24:25
  Um, and what does that trust look like, right?
• 24:28
  You know, why, why do they want to come back to your product?
• 24:31
  Why do they wanna come back to your service?
• 24:33
  Uh, and, and so for us, it's really just kind of this, uh,
• 24:37
  way of approaching our work and, uh, communicating with our
• 24:40
  clients that's-- these are kind of our three pillars, right?
• 24:43
  That we, we wanna be able to bring everything back to, and we wanna
• 24:46
  be able to hold as our kind of, uh, you know, source of truth.
• 24:50
  Uh, and, and when we are excelling and moving forward within,
• 24:54
  you know, these three pillars, the results will come, right?
• 24:58
  Whether that's sales or leads or, you know, moving product off shelf.
• 25:02
  You know, these, these three pillars lead to results.
• 25:06
  Um, and so it's really the, the analytics team, um, you know, they
• 25:10
  work really deeply with all of our, the other departments, right?
• 25:15
  To make sure that this is, uh, information that is shared, right?
• 25:18
  We really get those insights.
• 25:20
  Um, and we build, you know, basically kind of our, our models and our approaches
• 25:24
  for our clients around, you know, what our initial findings are, right?
• 25:28
  And, um, continuing to listen and have that ear to
• 25:30
  the ground, uh, kind of around those three pillars.
• 25:33
  So it, it's something that, for me, coming
• 25:36
  into Gravity Global, it stood out immediately.
• 25:40
  Um, has been an-- a great and, uh, just kind of eye-opening experience
• 25:45
  for me to listen into, you know, some of those initial conversations
• 25:48
  and learn more about it and ultimately see the effect and, and
• 25:52
  how it's empowered and grown, you know, so many of our customers.
• 25:56
  Definitely something that is, uh, special, you know, to Gravity Global and,
• 26:01
  um, something that we love to be able to bring to our clients and continue
• 26:04
  to inform, you know, our work and ultimately their, their journey onwards.
• 26:09
  Chris: So as we look towards the industry we're in right now, we're in
• 26:13
  a very interesting time for, um, especially someone in the social media
• 26:17
  field, I feel like, with regards to AI and automations and things like that.
• 26:23
  How is that shaping what you all do today?
• 26:26
  Luke: Well, we're definitely staying on our toes,
• 26:28
  um, I think is, you know, the, the short answer.
• 26:31
  There's so many things that AI is going to do well for social
• 26:35
  media marketing, and there's a lot of areas where it's going to be
• 26:39
  difficult or gonna provide some new obstacles for us to consider.
• 26:43
  Um, you know, I think one of the things that I'm excited about
• 26:46
  from an AI standpoint is the search and discoverability, right?
• 26:50
  I think it just puts that much more emphasis on the work
• 26:53
  that we do within, uh, the social media space, right?
• 26:57
  And for that work to be done correctly, and, you know, the weight that
• 27:00
  it's gonna carry when it comes to helping to influence and, and bring
• 27:06
  brands to, to the top, uh, when that LLM search is, is occurring.
• 27:11
  Um, so that's the type of thing that's really exciting for us
• 27:14
  to be able to lean into and make sure that we're, you know,
• 27:18
  educating our clients and really bringing to the forefront
• 27:20
  of our approach and strategy with, with content creation.
• 27:24
  Um, but there's also then the side of AI-generated content, you know,
• 27:28
  kind of living and, and growing on the, the platforms themselves.
• 27:33
  Uh, you know, I do anticipate that we'll have more and more of the AI
• 27:37
  labeling, uh, that will kind of continue to, to grow on the platforms.
• 27:43
  Um, but that's something right now that is definitely kind of in flux and
• 27:46
  is an area that You know, we, we have conversations with clients about
• 27:50
  on a pretty regular basis of, you know, okay, well, if AI touches this at
• 27:54
  all, if it, if it, you know, improves the disquality- quality of the image,
• 27:59
  does that mean we're gonna be, you know, have that post labeled then?
• 28:03
  Uh, so there's a lot of, you know, kind of fear and unknowns, um,
• 28:06
  that come from the clients that we, you know, are, are looking to stay
• 28:10
  educated and make sure that we understand that as much as possible.
• 28:15
  So yeah, it's, it's an interesting space right now.
• 28:17
  Chris: Yeah, for sure.
• 28:18
  I mean, there, there are times where AI can be a great
• 28:21
  tool in, in cases where it couldn't do certain things
• 28:25
  before, like you mentioned image quality, and I'm just…
• 28:28
  That, that sparked a memory where I saw the other day someone complaining about
• 28:32
  this women's suffrage photo that was being used to promote a local women's,
• 28:37
  women's museum here in Knoxville, and it had been… It was like, people were
• 28:42
  like, "Oh, this is AI." And then someone actually found the original photo,
• 28:45
  and it was, like, really, like, janky, like, low quality, low resolution.
• 28:51
  It's clear that somebody probably just put it in to try
• 28:53
  and upconvert it, but with that, it tried to interpret
• 28:56
  the words, and it made it look like it was AI generated.
• 28:59
  And everybody was upset and complaining about, "Oh, you're wasting AI," you
• 29:03
  know, "You're using AI on this and killing the environment and everything."
• 29:06
  So it's a very sensitive topic.
• 29:09
  It's, uh, very challenging to know when to use it and how to use it
• 29:13
  effectively, so yeah, it's… I don't… Yeah, I don't envy anyone
• 29:17
  who's in that position trying to make, "Okay, this will solve our
• 29:21
  problem, but it may also get us ripped apart online. What do we do?"
• 29:25
  Luke: Yeah.
• 29:26
  And you know, there's other things from the social media side of,
• 29:29
  uh, especially in the, the B2C where AI trends are successful, right?
• 29:36
  And it makes sense to, you know, have your client jump in on that, that
• 29:40
  trend, but then there's still all of those obstacles, you know, that you
• 29:43
  just mentioned, and trying to navigate that from, you know, the agency
• 29:47
  side, um, but then to the client side and kind of, you know, what do
• 29:51
  they want their, their lines to be, and, uh, how do they want to present
• 29:56
  themselves, you know, when it comes to that social media image and reputation?
• 30:00
  And, um, so it's definitely a tricky space that's case by case 100% right now.
• 30:07
  Chris: What else is top of mind as you think
• 30:08
  about the future in your industry as a whole?
• 30:12
  Luke: You know, I think one of the big things is the
• 30:15
  behavioral shifts in general, how social media usage has
• 30:20
  kind of shifted into more of the, uh, interest space, right?
• 30:26
  We follow brands, we follow, uh, musicians, we follow teams, we follow,
• 30:32
  uh, whatever it is, and it's a l- oftentimes based on interests.
• 30:36
  Um, and it's not necessarily interests in what we do, uh, in our lives, right?
• 30:41
  I know people that follow coffee brands and don't drink coffee.
• 30:44
  I know people that, you know, follow- aerospace brands
• 30:48
  and are not purchasing a fleet anytime soon, right?
• 30:51
  Not, not
• 30:51
  Chris: for a while, I'll
• 30:52
  Luke: say that.
• 30:52
  Yeah, yeah.
• 30:54
  Uh, but it, you know, it speaks to some interest on, on some
• 30:57
  level, or it's, um… And it goes back to kind of those three,
• 31:01
  three ideas of kind of what makes successful content, right?
• 31:04
  You know, is it entertaining?
• 31:05
  Is it educational?
• 31:07
  Or, you know, does it provoke a thought, a reaction, a, um, an opinion?
• 31:12
  And so I think those are kind of a really interesting space, but as much of
• 31:18
  anything too, it's the, it's the search that is really intriguing to me right
• 31:23
  now, and I, I see being the future, but also opening a lot of things up.
• 31:27
  I mean, so many people use social media to inform their purchasing decisions.
• 31:33
  Um, and that's where, you know, I, I heard a story the other day of
• 31:37
  somebody who, who purchased a car, and she started on social media.
• 31:42
  Um, she went then to the website and did some kind of further analysis, and then
• 31:46
  she came back to social media to get the, as, like, her review place, right?
• 31:51
  And to hear, uh, about people who have
• 31:53
  recently purchased it and stuff like that.
• 31:55
  And so I think that search and, and validation and trust, um,
• 32:00
  is a behavioral shift that I think ultimately is gonna stay.
• 32:03
  Um, but it will evolve, and it, it will
• 32:05
  change the space, I think, more and more here.
• 32:08
  Chris: I, I can't remember what it was, but I was looking at something just
• 32:11
  yesterday, and I was like, "I wonder if there's any reviews on this." And,
• 32:14
  like, that's immediately my reaction now, is to go and look and see what
• 32:18
  reviews, what commentary there is, what opinions they are, and then you have
• 32:22
  to go so far as the username now just to make sure they're legitimate people.
• 32:25
  Like, it's, it's, it's a wild world we're
• 32:28
  living in where that's, that's the case.
• 32:30
  But yeah, that buy- those buying trends are shifting, and, yeah, I think
• 32:34
  we're seeing people more and more get into these boxes, if you will, of their,
• 32:39
  their digital life is gonna be much different from person to person to person.
• 32:43
  And when you have that kind of pattern, when you have that
• 32:46
  kind of challenge, it becomes, okay, who is influencing them?
• 32:50
  Who is within that space that's actually going to, to push the needle for us?
• 32:54
  And so, yeah, it's a, again, it's a, it's a big challenge.
• 32:57
  I could see that being, being something that would be really, um, really a
• 33:01
  tough nut to crack and one that y'all need to stay on top of, for sure, so.
• 33:06
  Yeah.
• 33:06
  Have fun.
• 33:08
  Luke: Well, you bring up a, a great point, too, of, you know, within
• 33:10
  the same audience and somebody who's interested in buying the same
• 33:13
  product, you have one person who dedicates their research and those
• 33:17
  decision-making processes to social media, and you have another one who
• 33:22
  is taking a break from social media, and, you know, has set time limits
• 33:26
  or comes to check in on friends and family, you know, for an hour a week.
• 33:31
  And so it's a very, uh, it's a dir- very different and nuanced approach that
• 33:35
  kind of needs to be understood, uh, with those different audience members.
• 33:39
  So yeah, it'll, it's gonna continue to evolve, but, uh, I think
• 33:42
  it is an interesting time, and it's a fun, uh, time in the sense
• 33:46
  that, you know, for a while we, we, we were still trying to convince
• 33:50
  people the, the importance of social media marketing, right?
• 33:53
  And the, the use cases are, are certainly there, so
• 33:56
  it's fun for us to be able to continue to explore and,
• 33:58
  and dive into that and, uh, continue to adapt with it.
• 34:01
  Chris: Yeah, you, you touched on, touched
• 34:03
  on convincing people they need social media.
• 34:05
  I actually was part of a startup doing social media marketing way
• 34:09
  back in, like, 2010, right when B2B social media marketing was coming
• 34:14
  out, and we actually had, like, a local radio show and all that.
• 34:17
  So I was right there on the front lines going, "Social media is valuable.
• 34:20
  It's really important, and there's ways to do it that aren't just feels."
• 34:24
  And, you know, that was my biggest annoyance in the early days is it
• 34:27
  was like, "Well, it's really about sentiment, and we don't really care
• 34:30
  about the numbers or the downloads or, you know, whatever metric it is."
• 34:33
  Like, metrics don't really matter in social media, and I always found those
• 34:36
  people to just be like… Well, they're not, they're not still doing it
• 34:40
  today, or if they are, they're not, you know, credible thought leaders.
• 34:43
  Yep, yep, yep.
• 34:44
  Luke: I'm not, I'm not having those battles today.
• 34:46
  Chris: Yeah.
• 34:47
  Yeah, you, you have, you have ways to track it, ways to prove information,
• 34:50
  and, um, you know, there's always something that'll push back.
• 34:54
  I mean, with you being a global company, I would imagine
• 34:55
  GDPR and a lot of what the EU sets as standards probably adds
• 34:59
  an additional layer of complexity to what you all do, too.
• 35:02
  Luke: Oh, yeah, 100%, and especially from the different
• 35:06
  regulations and, um, especially even then within industry, right?
• 35:10
  When you have a, a global client that has, you know, the, the EU and
• 35:18
  then obviously the, the differences in, in the US and the, you know,
• 35:23
  Australia or something, the changes in the regulations are so vast,
• 35:28
  uh, and, uh, also, you know, how they're able to use social media and
• 35:32
  the same social media platforms within those different, uh, spaces.
• 35:35
  So and so it, it really creates a, an obstacle course for us, right?
• 35:41
  There is, there is a path, um, but each, each time we kind of have to navigate
• 35:45
  that and recreate, you know, what is, what is the actual right path here
• 35:48
  for, uh, this brand or this situation or this product because they are, you
• 35:53
  know, vastly different, and there, there's so many changing laws, right?
• 35:57
  There, there's just a, a lot of different things that are coming
• 36:00
  out, um, across the board, and so it's- It's a fun, you know,
• 36:05
  it's one way of describing it, but it's, it's also challenging.
• 36:07
  You know?
• 36:07
  It, it really is.
• 36:08
  It's a challenge to make sure that we are up to date on everything,
• 36:11
  and, uh, that we are making those, um, you know, those, those changes.
• 36:16
  And, uh, to be able to use that data, you know, that
• 36:18
  we're talking about as, as best as we can to inform that
• 36:21
  decision, um, while staying within the kind of moving course.
• 36:26
  You know, the, the, the sidelines are kind
• 36:28
  of moving and adjusting as we play the game.
• 36:31
  So, uh, it's, it's fun for us, but, uh, you know, it's definitely a
• 36:36
  major focus to be able to, to continue to learn as much from the past
• 36:41
  and optimize and change for how things are, are moving in, in the future.
• 36:45
  Chris: Yeah.
• 36:46
  No, that's one thing I love about this particular
• 36:48
  part of the industry is it's never boring.
• 36:50
  There's always something different, something new.
• 36:52
  Luke: No two days are the same, for sure.
• 36:54
  Chris: Absolutely.
• 36:55
  Absolutely.
• 36:55
  Well, as we wrap up, I always like to ask
• 36:58
  this question at the end of the interview.
• 37:00
  Um, what brand do, would you say you're admiring the most right now?
• 37:04
  Luke: There's so many that are, are doing good jobs, and I
• 37:07
  think the B2B side, like I said, has really changed in the
• 37:11
  last couple of years, uh, to kind of grow and expand there.
• 37:15
  But I think one from a B2B side that's, is, is really a,
• 37:20
  a good example and that I admire is, is actually HubSpot.
• 37:24
  Um, I think they do a great job of being, again, a product that not everybody
• 37:28
  is, you know, themselves making that purchasing decision on or even using.
• 37:33
  Um, but you're getting quality social first, you know, education
• 37:38
  and entertainment and, uh, it's, it's worth the follow, and it's
• 37:42
  worth seeing what their, their content looks like every day.
• 37:46
  Um, and you know, that, that has a very, uh, meaningful
• 37:50
  impact on … HubSpot's always top of mind for me and,
• 37:54
  you know, I'm not using it on a, a day-to-day basis.
• 37:57
  Um, and then another one from a B2C side would be, uh, Poppy.
• 38:00
  I've, I've just been, um, I've loved watching their, their growth and seeing
• 38:05
  a, a company that really started ground up, um, and that, in that community
• 38:10
  level being really focused on, you know, how do we build these relationships?
• 38:15
  How do we build this trust, um, from the influencer, um, the UGC, and
• 38:20
  making sure that it's something that, you know, resonates and, and kind
• 38:24
  of carries that extra weight at the, um, the, the community and the
• 38:28
  influencer level versus Like, coming out with a big brand push, you know?
• 38:33
  Look at us, look at all these things we do, right?
• 38:35
  Um, so I've always admired them, and I think they continue to do a great
• 38:38
  job of kind of leading what a community first approach can look like.
• 38:42
  So yeah, those are kind of, uh, my, my B2B
• 38:45
  and, and B2Cs that I, uh, am admiring today.
• 38:48
  Chris: Now, I have to ask, are you currently
• 38:50
  Luke: using HubSpot?
• 38:51
  We are, yeah.
• 38:52
  We, so we do use it.
• 38:53
  There's a lot of stuff that we, you know, we can do,
• 38:55
  uh, especially from kind of the full, the full cycle.
• 38:58
  Um, so we work really closely with, with our team members,
• 39:01
  um, work, you know, really closely with Megan, uh,
• 39:04
  Klingaman, on our, our team on a pre- day-to-day basis there.
• 39:07
  But, you know, again, it's not something that I am,
• 39:09
  like, in the weeds on, on a day-to-day basis, right?
• 39:13
  And, um, so when I see HubSpot, it's just, it's, it's, like, my
• 39:18
  daily reminder almost of, ah, yes, have we, you know, what's next?
• 39:21
  What else can we do?
• 39:23
  And I think that's, you know, in a lot of ways what social
• 39:25
  can serve for, um, depending on your industry, of course.
• 39:28
  But, uh, it is, it can be that, that little, you
• 39:31
  know, kind of bell that goes off and reminds us.
• 39:34
  Chris: I've been certified, like, in HubSpot training and
• 39:38
  all that stuff in a previous job, so I've, I've delved into
• 39:42
  the depths of it, and it's a, it's a very powerful tool.
• 39:44
  I think they do a really good job too with that, like you said,
• 39:47
  the community, and everything that they build around their product.
• 39:50
  I like it when a brand does that in a way that really gets
• 39:54
  people engaged in, um, what they're offering and what they do.
• 39:58
  So yeah, I think, I think HubSpot's a, an excellent choice by that regard.
• 40:01
  They do a really good job with their brand.
• 40:03
  And Poppy, dude, I, I had Poppy yesterday.
• 40:05
  So it's funny you bring them up.
• 40:07
  I was like, "Oh yeah, I was waiting for somebody." I'm thinking we've
• 40:10
  had Poppy and Liquid Death are two of the ones I hear quite a lot.
• 40:13
  Luke: Liquid Death is, yeah, another fantastic one.
• 40:16
  Yeah, I think Poppy's just really been that great, and Liquid Death has done
• 40:20
  a lot of the same stuff with that, that influencer, that community feel.
• 40:23
  Uh, you know, I don't know if you've had this one, but I, I think Wendy's
• 40:25
  is another shout-out that I would give of, um, h- how you build just a voice
• 40:30
  and a humanness, you know, again, in something that is very different from…
• 40:34
  It, it's a great example of that branding that it… Where are the other lines?
• 40:38
  Where else do we kind of turn those knobs?
• 40:40
  And, you know, I think it really changed the game for how brands are active e-
• 40:48
  within the community and within the, the comment section, and, um, those things.
• 40:52
  So they, they've been in pretty, you know- inspirational obviously to a
• 40:57
  lot of brands, but th- you know, they've, they've been innovative as well.
• 41:00
  Chris: That's actually a really good point,
• 41:01
  especially for what you do in social media.
• 41:03
  Wendy's is one of the, I would say, iconic social media brands in
• 41:07
  terms of how they engage and do all the things that you mentioned.
• 41:11
  Like, that's just a, it's a fascinating case study.
• 41:14
  We have one similar, um, or had one for a while.
• 41:18
  I don't know where their branding is now,
• 41:20
  but for a while they had a, um, Moon Pie.
• 41:23
  I don't know if you're familiar with Moon Pies.
• 41:24
  But, um, M- Moon Pie, the brand was run by an agency here
• 41:28
  locally, and yeah, somebody was the voice of, like, this
• 41:33
  unhinged marketing campaign they did, and it was incredibly good.
• 41:37
  That, now that person got hired and is at some agency
• 41:40
  in New York now, and we'll never see him again.
• 41:42
  But it's fascinating to see how all of that comes to be and comes to fruition.
• 41:47
  Um, and yeah, just the, the ability of a brand to go, "Okay, we can trust
• 41:50
  you to do this crazy thing." You know, that's, that's a lot of trust on the
• 41:54
  brand's part to let someone have a voice like that on the internet, too.
• 41:57
  Luke: It really is.
• 41:58
  I, I admire the brands, right?
• 42:00
  As, as much as it is the, the people executing
• 42:02
  it and stuff like you're saying, right?
• 42:04
  To be able to trust that this is … And
• 42:06
  there's evidence that goes into it, right?
• 42:07
  We, we know the behaviors, we know those types of
• 42:10
  things, but it's still, it's a big leap of faith.
• 42:12
  And so I, I admire any and all those brands
• 42:14
  that are, are kind of willing to do that.
• 42:16
  Um, I think that's the, uh, the Wendy's and the
• 42:19
  Moon Pie is, Moon Pie is such a great account.
• 42:22
  Yeah, they've done a lot of really good work, uh, on social.
• 42:25
  And so, yeah, I love, I love where and, and seeing how
• 42:29
  brands are, um, looking to be innovative in those ways.
• 42:33
  Chris: Well, Luke, thank you so much for coming on.
• 42:36
  Where can people connect with you?
• 42:37
  Where can they find out more about Gravity
• 42:39
  Global if they want to connect with them?
• 42:41
  Luke: Both of our LinkedIn pages.
• 42:42
  So, um, I'm very active on, uh, LinkedIn, and then for Gravity as well.
• 42:47
  There's a lot of updates and, uh, these thought leadership
• 42:50
  pieces, events we're gonna be at, um, all those types of things.
• 42:54
  Uh, so definitely start on LinkedIn.
• 42:57
  Um, and then of course our website is a great place to just learn
• 43:00
  more about us, um, learn more about FAB, learn some, uh, about our
• 43:05
  clients, our, our team members, you know, those types of things.
• 43:08
  Um, it's pretty, you know, fun and, uh, engaging website.
• 43:11
  So definitely circle over there as well, and, um, feel free to
• 43:16
  reach out and, uh, we'd love to talk to, you know, anybody and
• 43:19
  everybody, and even if it's just sharing ideas and, uh, bouncing
• 43:23
  ideas around with, with one another, um, would, would love that.
• 43:26
  So those are kind of our two best places to, to stay connected.
• 43:30
  Chris: Great.
• 43:30
  Well, Luke, thanks for coming on We Built This Brand.
• 43:33
  Luke: Thank you so much, Chris.
• 43:34
  I really enjoyed it.
• 43:36
  Chris: Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
• 43:39
  Don't forget to like, follow, and subscribe on your player of choice.
• 43:43
  You can also keep up with the podcast on our website at webuiltthisbrand.com.
• 43:48
  If you like this episode, please give the podcast a five-star review and make
• 43:52
  sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand