Latest / The Kink Consultant / Ep 19 - Kink, Non-Monogamy & Redefining Relationships with CJ from No Shame with CJ

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Ep 19 - Kink, Non-Monogamy & Redefining Relationships with CJ from No Shame with CJ · The Kink Consultant

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It's the King Consultant podcast where we're turning up the heat
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on all things kink and dating, relationships and pop culture.
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So close the door, plug in your headphones, and let's get down
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to it. Hello and welcome to this week's
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episode of The King Consultant. I am joined by a very special
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guest who I'm excited to interview because we are sort of
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in the same field. Please welcome CJ from No Shame
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with CJCJ. Welcome to the show.
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Thanks, Amanda. I am really excited to have you
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on. You are my first fellow sex and
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relationship coach and are a king and non monogamy coach.
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Yes, I like to do all the nami. Thing I do love it, especially
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because I think we talked about this and I think a lot of the
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people who follow me know I am monogamous.
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We're trying to end up in a monogamous relationship.
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So non monogamy is a little bit of a mystery to me at times.
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Well, we are going to uncover some of the mysteries and
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perhaps make it less mysterious or uncomfortable.
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Yes, and I'm really excited about it because I have many
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clients who are interested in learning more about kink,
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exploring, introducing and maintaining it.
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And then when they are polyamorous or when they want to
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explore any type of non monogamy, I will help them
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because I am the king consultant.
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But I will often encourage them to seek out someone who
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specializes in polyamory because I think that it deserves someone
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who fully, deeply understands it.
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Some of the work we do I feel is so intimate that it adds
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something more when we can really relate and truly say,
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yes, I have been in your shoes because it's not always possible
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to say that either. It's funny because I was like,
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like, I'm a little bit triggered by ENF, which stands for ethical
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non monogamy because it feels judgy to me because your non
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monogamy, it's ethical by who's together.
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You know, I think that one of the beautiful things that I've
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learned on my king and relationship journey and just
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getting older and exploring my desires is that I get to define
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things in the way that I want to and what works for me.
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And it's always important when interacting with other people
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what the definition means, because we could say ENM, we
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could say Poly community, whatever we thinking community,
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but it's like, well, specifically what does that mean
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to you? So ENM stands for ethical non
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monogamy and that is a way for people to practice having
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multiple partners, right? And the point about being
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ethical is that everyone is aware of it, right?
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My preference is to say consensual non monogamy because
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I do think that that's a little bit different.
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But I also want to say sometimes it's valid.
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And I didn't used to believe this.
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I would get like very much like I wanted to know if this
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person's partner knew what they were doing and blah, blah, blah.
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And it got to a point where it was like, you know what,
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sometimes it's none of my business because you, you cannot
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know someones entire relationship history and the
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reasons why they might be going outside of their partnership or
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marriage. And maybe that's not ethical to
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me or to you or to others, and it's not 100% consensual because
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both people don't know. But we're also saying something
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about something that we don't necessarily know the full story.
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See what I'm saying? I am really aligned with that.
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Too Sometimes consent isn't possible or wanted because of
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valid relationship styles. Don't ask, don't tell.
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So that is that consensual? Is that ethical?
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I think that these are questions we need to like, we need need to
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interrogate our own like language.
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And then when we're talking about polyamory, there's so many
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different version and polyamory basically is like multiple
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loves, right? Is the capacity, the
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willingness, the desire, the interaction with people in a
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sort of romantic loving way that may or may not like include like
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multiple partners involved in like a family style or whatever
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kitchen table Polly where everyone needs and talk.
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It's a subset of non monogamy. And again, when you're dating in
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this world or meeting people, it's always important to ask
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what it means to them and what they're looking for.
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So I'm just sort of like kind of vague, like non monogamy because
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that just suits me. And someday I might consider
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myself more polyamorous because I might fall in love.
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Like, I don't say no, I'm not open to that, but I'm not
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seeking it out. I'm in a marriage and I'm not
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looking for another like romantic loving partner in the
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same way that I am with my husband.
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That is extremely valid. Just taking it back one or two
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steps. Interrogating our own language
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is super important and I think it's something a lot of us skip
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over. I don't know if you run into
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this. I make a lot of content on
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social media. I find that if I put a label on
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anything, I get a lot of attacks about like the labeling of
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things. And I'm like, well, it's
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actually very helpful for people to find their way.
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If they can label it, you know, they can do more research.
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And I think that interrogating your own language is just
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another level of that that's also really important.
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It's not just like, what label am I under?
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It's like, what does that mean for me?
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What does that mean to you? Yes, don't make assumptions when
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someone says like I'm kinky. Like the other person will have
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their own visualization or interpretation of what that is,
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and they need to ask you what that means when you say you're
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kinky. You're speaking my language
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entirely because you can tell me you're kinky and I'm like, there
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are 1000 things that that could mean.
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So you'll need to narrow down one of these languages that
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popped up for me. It's one that I have a lot of
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confusion around. Is so Holly, what does that mean
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to you? I don't identify that way and
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never have, but my sense of it is that a solo Poly person is
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they choose to be their own partner and that's like their
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priority is themselves. They are their own partner.
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They engage with various other potential partners in a
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different way. They are not looking to be
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partnered up in sort of a traditional way that.
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Explains it really well. I am not Polly, but that
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explanation makes me think in the line of interrogating
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language and see what it means for us.
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There are parts of that that I identify with, with where I'm at
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in my life right now. OK, let's can we talk about that
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now? I'm like, I'm tingling and
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excited because, I mean, I don't know you very well, but I know a
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little bit of your story from social media and from talking to
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you. But what about this idea of
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like, considering yourself when you're dating, whether you're
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kinky or not or not on monogamous or not, like having
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sort of a solo Poly attitude? I already just feel this need to
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immediately caveat it really and be like, as long as I'm treating
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everyone fit, you know, I already feel this the burden of
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like, it's selfish to say I'm the most important person, but
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at the same time, I know when I teach and I coach that it's not.
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But when it's me, I'm having a moment of hesitation and calling
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myself the most important person.
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That's just a moment of vulnerability and honesty of
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like, that's what it brought up in me in admitting that I'm the
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most important person because a feeling of selfishness or an
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insecurity about being labeled as selfish comes up when I admit
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that. Thank you for sharing that
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because I think that that's really important.
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And I think that in particular, a lot of us who are socialized
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as women in particular, not only for women, but we are raised in
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a way that silence is our needs and we are called selfish when
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we stand in our truth and in our needs.
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I would just ask you to look at like where that comes from.
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Was it something put on you or is it something that you
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actually that comes from within? The flip side of that is when
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we're not behaving in our own best interests and we're not
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showing up for ourselves in at least an equal way that we're
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showing up for other people, are we actually giving them the gift
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of us or what we think that they want?
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I know the answer for that right now, but it's something that I
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actively work on of who am I giving them because it's only
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fair to give my most authentic self because that's the only
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version that it can be sustained.
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Right there, because and when we're dating, when we first meet
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somebody, we want to attract them.
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We think about what they might like, what would attract them to
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us, and we might put on a persona.
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There's something beautiful about that at the same time.
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Not if we are masculine in who we are.
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Because someday the mask will drop and the reality will show.
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And this is not just for us. This is for like having an
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awareness that people typically show up to the table, the
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dating, to the date on their best behavior and their best
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selves. And that's where we get into
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trouble because we don't actually, we're not seeing them
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yet and they're not seeing us. Like it takes time.
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Even if we're aware, even if we're trying to show up
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authentically, these things take time.
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And you're not going to show yourself in like a challenging
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situation right away. Like that takes time.
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And I think often we're in too much of A rush to tell ourselves
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the story about who they are, who we are, how we go work
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together, and then we're like. Yeah, because we we want to be
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happy and we. We seek it.
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We want the fairy tale, or at least I know I do at times and I
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call myself a recovering hopeless romantic because I am
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constantly trying to put that to see things a little more clearly
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and not through those rose tinted glasses that I enjoy
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putting on from time to time. Well, there's something wrong
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with being a hopeless romantic. It's like you want to keep that
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romance. Like in my partnership we had a
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lot of challenges and we started off in a long distance
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relationship. It benefited us because we got
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to see each other and have distance in ways that we
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wouldn't have normally. I believe it was in total eight
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years. Whoa, that is way longer than I
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expected you to say. We had 28 months of physical
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separation because of the pandemic.
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For us, what we're what was that?
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Because we are kinky, we're in a power exchange relationship
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because we like match so well. I know all of those things and
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the non monogamy part as well. It was like, it made us want to
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like try harder because it was such a good match that it was
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like, OK, we have to be committed to like making this
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work because we're like on fire. And but also like when you have
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that sort of chemistry, you can like crash and burn.
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Because we would have like been, I mean, at it like very quickly
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physically and like having all those overwhelming feelings and
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like the love and, you know, all that like delicious oxy toast
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and running through our bodies. And it would have like bonded us
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really quickly. But before we even met in
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person, we talked for five months.
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So we got to know each other very deeply before we actually
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even could play together. So that was really helpful.
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Have the exact same situation but there is someone that I'm
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seeing right now and due to conflicting schedules and things
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we've seen each other a couple of times.
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So we talked for basically I'd say a month straight before we
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met each other. And then even then it was few
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and far between and allowed us to develop that connection that
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I don't know if it would have developed the same way if we had
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met in person. And how did you meet originally?
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On fat life. Oh, fat life.
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Oh, you know what's so funny? Like in our in my world, I'm
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always like, it's not a dating site because it's not, but it is
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a place to find your community. And sometimes your community is
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where you find your partner. Yeah, like, OK, here's the
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benefit of it potential, like potentially the place where
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you're not going to be shamed. Yes, but you don't have to
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explain, you know, like it's we're all there for some version
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of what is exciting to us, right.
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And those don't always match, but you can end up finding
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people that resonate with you, who understand you.
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Here's where I go on a Fetlife profile.
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I Scroll down to their kinks to read through their kinks and.
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Think. Is that what?
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You did as well, yeah. For sure all about it and it
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makes it a lot of fun. So getting back to non monogamy,
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there are apps for that. You know, there are apps for
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people in the lifestyle and sometimes, you know, the kink
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and the lifestyle, like meaning like swingers, non monogamous
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people, whatever, they kind of overlap, right?
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So there's a lot of places where that's occurring as well.
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But there are apps for those things.
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And the benefit of that is like, OK, you can make an assumption
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that most of the people there have a basic understanding of
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what you're talking about. Or they're just, they're like
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checking it out and cruising and trying to learn the lingo and
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whatever. Like sometimes they're not up to
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speed, but it is a place where it's like, OK, I don't have to
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try to explain to someone what I'm into and risk this like
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conversation around having to justify it.
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Yeah. Which is nice.
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Because there is sometimes pressure to just justify it.
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You are non monogamous, living in the lifestyle and you also
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have a nearly adult child. How open are you with your
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family about your lifestyle? All right, Kingster, let's talk
14:31
about pleasure. Not just mine, Yours too.
14:35
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14:38
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Thanks, love. Now let's get back to the fun.
15:17
I am more open with my family. I'm open to the degree that they
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ask questions. They have a little being in the
15:26
business that I am. You can kind of get a read from
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people. I'm like if they want to hear
15:32
about it or not. And I'm just kind of on a
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mission to destigmatize pleasure and expression of self, whether
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that's your gender identity, sexual identity, desires,
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whatever it is like, And a huge sort of change for me in my life
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is, of course, when I started exploring power exchange and
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like finding out that I'd love this.
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But also I started working as a phone sex operator.
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Boy, it was that eye opening for me, like for men, what men are
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going through in terms of like having to hide parts of
16:14
themselves. And in particular many of my
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older clients who I know were in marriages or long term
16:22
relationships and they enjoyed things like cross dressing or
16:27
being submissive and things like that.
16:30
And it just brought a lot of compassion out of me for people
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fighting parts of themselves. Part of my like thing is like,
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look, I'm off for free speech, but also when we're making a
16:43
joke about STI's or someone's sexuality or kink shaming
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people, it's hurting someone and it's probably hurting someone
16:53
close to you and you don't know. And it also erodes trust because
16:58
they're not going to tell you about themselves.
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And I think the last thing that we need right now is to have
17:05
more walls going up or we don't listen and have the empathy and
17:09
understanding of each other. So for me as a parent also, it
17:15
was important for me when my children were a little bit
17:18
younger to start talking about pleasure and their genitals and
17:23
pornography and sex that it's normal that these things are
17:28
acceptable and they're when you begin to explore, you are are
17:32
more than welcome to talk to me. There's resources available.
17:35
And then part of that because I was single or had the appearance
17:40
of being single because my partner was overseas for so many
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years, but I was for several years a single parent that I
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wanted my kids to have an understanding that monogamy
17:53
wasn't the only option and that it was OK for them not to, like
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with their first exploration around dating to get into a
18:03
relationship and be monogamous. So I started talking about the
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fact that I was seeing other people and I went out on dates.
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And then when I did tell them about my partner overseas, now
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my husband and I said, look, we are actually seeing other people
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while we are together. I think it was my youngest son
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said, oh, mom, you're a player, which I thought was very cute.
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But it's like, thank you, but not really because a player
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doesn't necessarily tell that to everybody.
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And for me, we're open about it and we have an understanding
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that it's OK for us to do that because like, I only get to see
18:45
him a couple of times a year. I can have fun with other
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people. I can still have friends, I can
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still go out on dates, that sort of thing.
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So I've kind of have been like opening up depending on how much
18:57
which they asked where they're at developmentally and now
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they're both adults. But in the case of me, the
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reality is I'm dating my business right now, so I don't
19:08
have a lot of time for actual date.
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My husband has been seeing someone for over a year.
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She's been to our house, my son has met her, my husband has gone
19:22
away for the night or for a weekend, and there's just sort
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of like a normalization of this is what we do.
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I'm not over here having drama about it.
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I'm very comfortable with him doing that and me having some
19:38
space. I'm just not feeling like I have
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to one up him or something like that.
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It's just sort of, I think my attitude is like letting my son
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see how it can be beneficial to our relationship and not
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potential drama around it. But that's just my temperament
19:55
at this stage of my life. I'm not saying it can work in
19:58
every relationship or every dynamic, but for us it really
20:02
does. When you were younger, would
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that not have been your inclination to be so calm?
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I wouldn't say that I was like a person who had like a high
20:11
feeling of jealousy. I would say that my temperament
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from early on was always sexually adventurous to a point
20:20
of like, I enjoy pleasure. I enjoy sex and I enjoy intimacy
20:24
and playing with that and having fun and fantasizing and thinking
20:28
about having a threesome or something.
20:31
Like it was always sort of like, oh, and like learning about
20:34
polyamory like decades ago. I could see that being a
20:39
possibility for me. I didn't have a strong drive
20:42
for. I don't feel it's like my
20:44
identity, but it was sort of like more of I like to turn it
20:48
all into fun because it's fucking hot.
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That's where I come. From and you're on this pursuit
20:55
of pleasure and normalizing and that is it for me.
20:59
The words I heard were not enough because that's something
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I identify with, right? And I have a lot of jealousy
21:05
around it. So I think that's one of the I
21:07
don't know if I got past that, if Polly or non monogamy would
21:10
still be for me. Oh, I do.
21:12
Anyone who's been following me for a long time knows I call
21:14
myself monogamish because I look for other kinky play partners
21:18
but still want sexual monogamy at this time.
21:21
That's what I'm learning to say at this time.
21:23
I love that this is the thing. We all go through different
21:26
stages of life and we have different periods of growth.
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And I'm not saying that you're going to grow into that space,
21:34
but something might shift in you that opens up the possibility of
21:38
like, I want that and you're leaving the door open.
21:42
Because look, I didn't know 30 years ago that I was going to
21:47
enjoy the things that I enjoy. And I might have been a little
21:51
bit like shocked and appalled or I probably would have been a
21:56
little bit more like, that's kind of interesting.
21:59
Yeah. I think it's always good to just
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sort of have this attitude, like, I really wonder what is
22:04
out there and like, what I might get up to kind of thing like
22:08
someday. I'm a lot older than you.
22:11
I think I'm 20 years plus older than you.
22:14
I'm in a different stage in life.
22:16
I've had my kids. I had my first marriage didn't
22:19
work. It was there was a lack of
22:20
intimacy, which was a huge reason for me why I needed to
22:25
get out of that. And it was a mutual thing, but I
22:28
knew that that was going to be like the top of the list for me
22:32
was intimacy and another partnership.
22:34
I can relate to that. For me, it's kink.
22:36
I jokingly say I was born kinky because I always knew I wanted
22:39
kink and I always knew I was kinky.
22:42
The other things they're I'm growing into them and sometimes
22:45
I grow into a different direction of maybe wanting more
22:48
monogamy and less openness and it's sort of ebbs and flows.
22:52
But I think one of the things I, we'll probably always wonder is
22:55
if this had been presented to me at a younger age, and I've been
22:58
taught at a younger age to really handle my jealousy, which
23:02
is something I dealt with. I had crazy jealousy about my
23:05
sisters who I always thought were better than me in some way,
23:08
right? So I actively worked on that
23:10
jealousy. And I'm wondering if the options
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have been presented to me at a younger age, Would dealing with
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jealousy have been something I was more prepared to do or
23:19
handle? I think we also romanticize
23:22
jealousy. It's like always if you don't
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have jealousy and then you don't really love somebody and that's
23:28
bullshit. And that's also can be like a
23:30
pathway to abuse. And that I would say that there
23:34
was like a real strong possessiveness in a past
23:37
relationship for me that turned to abuse and that was like a
23:41
form of mental abuse. And then it started to become
23:45
physical. I think that it's like this
23:47
expectation that it's like, oh, that means that you truly love
23:50
me and that's just total bullshit.
23:52
I'm doing some of that. I I think it's healthy.
23:55
So envy is when you wish you had something that someone else has,
24:00
and jealousy is when you fear that what you have will be taken
24:05
away. So I have my phone.
24:08
Maybe you have the newer iPhone. Let's just say I envy that
24:12
you're the newer iPhone. But this phone is very important
24:16
to me and I have but. Can I have that?
24:19
No, it's all mine. Like you.
24:21
This is my life, you know. You got it.
24:25
OK, I liked that. Thank you for that exercise.
24:28
That was helpful. Yeah, because.
24:29
We can feel both things when we're in that dynamic or dating
24:34
or exploring and it's like, oh, you can have envy for somebody
24:38
or someone else's relationship or whatever or a key dynamic
24:42
that you're witnessing. I did go through a process of
24:45
that initially in my relationship with my husband
24:49
because of the distance. He was like, I'm not ever going
24:53
to play monogamy again. It's not for me.
24:56
So and I agreed to that. So I had to like be able to do
25:00
it or say this isn't for me. I had already been exploring it
25:04
on my own and in a previous partnership sort of.
25:07
But I was like, oh, I kind of looked at it like I seen on the
25:11
the kinky cake where I was like, I get kinky and I get this too.
25:15
Like how fun is this? But then he would be like, oh,
25:18
I'm going on a date and I'm like, how old is she?
25:20
Like just like questioning, like how old is she?
25:22
Is she close to me, my age? Like because I knew he wanted to
25:25
have like up here. What is she into?
25:28
Like, what does she look like? All the things that I would
25:30
start to feel this like fear, discomfort and anxiety around
25:36
like, is she going to be better than me?
25:39
Like what if he falls in love with this person?
25:41
What if they're a perfect match just like we are and like all
25:44
these things. And I kind of would work myself
25:47
up into a state. I had to sit with it and deal
25:50
with it. I don't know how this happened,
25:53
but it was almost like a flip of a switch.
25:55
I was like, I can't control that and I don't want to control it
25:58
because he gets to love whoever he loves and if he chooses to
26:02
love somebody else, that's never anything I'm going to be able to
26:06
control whether it is in a monogamous relationship or not.
26:11
Like it's the fallacy of control is what I think our
26:16
relationships are. The fallacy of like, I'm going
26:19
to have this relationship forever.
26:21
We don't know that. We just don't know, period, end
26:24
of story. I don't care what relationship
26:26
style you're in or what you do, what age you are.
26:30
We don't have the control. We can try to aspire to that
26:34
that, but what can you control yourself, your feelings and what
26:40
you are contributing to the relationship?
26:42
So if I'm going to like be spinning out of control and
26:45
meeting him to like fill my cup with accolades and reassurance
26:51
and all these things, like that's not fun.
26:54
We need to lift each other up. But if it's always his job to be
26:57
filling my cup, he's not going to want to be around for very
27:00
long. So I started like stealing my
27:03
own cup and being like, I'm really good at this.
27:06
I'm really good. Like I know how to please him.
27:09
I know, but get tomorrow. I know the things that he's
27:13
attracted to in me and I just got better at him.
27:16
I was like, that's what I no, how do you?
27:19
Honor your own fears because fear is valid as well.
27:24
So how do you balance the honoring it and recognizing it
27:27
with working through it and learning to fill your own cup?
27:30
You can't just shove it down and it's just my that's fun place to
27:35
be for yourself, like creating a lot of the anxiety in your life
27:40
for something that might happen. If I felt lack from him, if he
27:46
wasn't filling my cup in the ways that I need as well as me
27:50
doing it, I might not feel the same way.
27:53
I'm not saying ignore the fear, but sometimes you just have to
27:57
live with a little bit of discomfort.
28:00
Do things anyway. Like that's when good things
28:02
happen is we don't know. And sometimes we're
28:06
uncomfortable with the unknown or something that we're not
28:10
necessarily good at yet, like a newbie king, you know, or trying
28:14
something new. Like you want to be the expert,
28:17
but you're not because you're just getting started and you
28:20
don't even know if you like it. It's just like taking it step by
28:22
step, really. Just saying, yeah, I see you.
28:26
And you know what? You can go in the other room for
28:29
now and I'll come check on you later because right now I'm
28:32
going to go have some fun. And just putting the fear in the
28:35
other room and being like, I'll tend to you later, but right now
28:39
I'm going to go have some fun. I wish I had met you a year ago,
28:43
right, because I think that like I could have had some really
28:46
beneficial conversations. I think one of the things that
28:49
I'm also recognizing that an important piece of this puzzle
28:53
is you weren't don't ask, don't tell with each other.
28:55
You were tell each other. And with that comes a certain
28:59
level of things to work through. While it might be the unknown,
29:03
it's a known unknown. And like sometimes I'm like, I
29:06
don't want to know that part. Initially I had more of that.
29:10
Now I'm like, I want and this goes between between the three
29:14
of us too. Like it's part of our Eroticism.
29:17
You know, we're enjoying that. And there's something about
29:21
like, oh, like the exchange, it's hot, it's sexy.
29:26
We also have boundaries when it's like different partner,
29:29
we're like, I don't really want them to know anything.
29:32
You know, we're we're good with that.
29:34
Like we don't have to share everything.
29:36
But for us, it's like it feeds our relationship and it feeds
29:40
our. I'm assuming this is something
29:43
you worked through together. Over time, you figured out what
29:45
worked for. You.
29:47
Navigated it that way because I'm guessing based on my own,
29:50
even monogamous relationships, you can't figure it all out in
29:53
the moment. There's no map you put together
29:56
and you're like, this is the map.
29:58
This is how we're doing it. Exactly.
30:00
And it takes the constant negotiation and reflection Also
30:05
things that I was like, well, I'm not into that.
30:07
And then like, I'm totally, you know, it's like it's just part
30:10
of the journey. I relate to that so much.
30:12
The thing that I thought I never wanted becomes exactly what I'm
30:17
living for and really relishing in thriving in.
30:20
Even Speaking of this, like what you are at one stage of your
30:23
life might change. I think I might get this weekly
30:25
because I do my Monday Ask Me Anything on Instagram.
30:28
Inevitably, I'm going to get a question of what if one partner
30:31
wants to be open and the other does not.
30:34
I think it's something that needs to be talked about, but
30:35
what's your advice on that? Keep open the communication.
30:40
A lot of times what happens is someone will start to learn
30:44
something and they start like reading the books and listening
30:48
in the podcasts and yeah, are we now the experts and like getting
30:52
like really excited about it. And then they have all this
30:55
knowledge and like personal knowledge about what they think
31:00
might work for them and that they want to do this thing.
31:03
And they're like, they're like a million steps ahead before they
31:06
say I think 1 issue, which it's fine to like want to do that.
31:11
But then you have to be like, wait a second there.
31:14
I haven't approached this conversation.
31:17
They are where I was in the beginning.
31:20
They don't know about the how do I like, how do I come back to
31:25
their level and invite them in? It needs to be an invitation and
31:31
an inclusion and sort of like I'm really wanting deeper
31:36
connection with you kind of thing.
31:39
And I want to share something scary and vulnerable for me,
31:43
like admit the things that you don't want to happen and the
31:47
things that you do want to happen and like, invite them in
31:50
and then start over with listening to the podcast
31:53
together if they're open to it. Talk about yourself, not about
31:59
what it's going to do for the relationship.
32:01
Talk about yourself only and what you think might benefit you
32:06
and how you might show up differently in the relationship
32:10
and what your intentions are with it.
32:13
Just start slow. Like don't turn it into like a
32:16
huge conversation like little bits first and just plant the
32:20
seeds slowly, gently inviting them.
32:24
Like a lot of it is just going to be your approach.
32:27
If they're like hard. Now, that doesn't mean that you
32:30
shut down because this may be a the valid thing for you.
32:34
That might be a neat. And it's like, look, I am a
32:36
human being. I am allowed to grow and to
32:42
change and to expand. And this is what is becoming
32:46
important for me. I would like to continue to have
32:49
a conversation around what this might look like in a way that
32:54
would work for both of us. I want to keep having a
32:56
conversation and it's not going to come to a solution right
33:00
away, But there are people who are in mono Poly or non mono
33:06
relationship. One person is more monogamous
33:09
and the other person isn't. Some relationships are complex,
33:12
right? There's all sorts of ways that
33:15
these things can work and you need to get creative.
33:17
And just because other people don't do it doesn't mean it
33:21
can't be done. And like, you don't know, people
33:24
do things in private that you don't know about.
33:26
Yeah, thank you for breaking it down.
33:28
I think sometimes we forget and this happens with kink too.
33:32
The advice is very similar to what I say about just pure kink.
33:35
One person goes so far down the path of hyper fixating on what
33:39
applies to them that they forget the side of you're in a
33:42
relationship with someone, how are you going to introduce and
33:45
maintain it long term with each other?
33:47
It's not just about one person's needs being met to have your
33:51
needs met. Very valid, but you're not in
33:53
the relationship alone. OK, so this is where I think
33:57
king and non monogamy really go well together is in potentially
34:02
like one person is like finally admits or has grown into like
34:07
I'm into this thing and the other person's like hell no, I'm
34:12
not into that thing. I do not want any part of it.
34:15
What are you going to do? Here comes non monogamy people.
34:19
You know, it's like get fucking creative here and it doesn't
34:23
mean sucks always. It can for some people it does.
34:28
For me it definitely does. But it's like maybe you can just
34:31
get that a power exchange or whatever, like service, some,
34:38
you know, submissiveness or in some way, you know, getting a
34:43
spanking and it doesn't. It's nothing else, like go to a
34:46
spanking party and that's all that you're getting.
34:49
It's like, yeah, I got some impact.
34:50
I'm good. And that is why I've called
34:52
myself monogamish, going full circle to what words mean for
34:56
you. Monogamish.
34:57
I will play with other people, but for me, sexual monogamy is
35:03
what I crave, and that's where I am in my own journey.
35:05
So when you have clients come to you, is this what they're mostly
35:11
coming to talk about? Most of my clients are midlife
35:15
women and in particular women who are like, looking to expand
35:21
their own sort of sexuality or Eroticism or their divorce.
35:27
Because this is my story. My story is one of divorce and
35:31
sexual and non monogamy exploration post force, right?
35:35
So most of the people I work with are women.
35:38
You know, I'm starting to possibly open it up to couples.
35:42
With this caveat, I am really hardcore or about your own
35:47
personal need. The relationship almost is
35:51
secondary to me. Yes, I want people to get really
35:55
good at communicating, and sometimes they need a third
35:58
person to help them. But I don't like the dynamic of
36:04
me and a couple together, like on screen in a coaching session,
36:09
like having them separated, because I want them to be
36:13
themselves. And sometimes there's a lot of
36:15
patterns and a lot of dynamics that are subtle or not so
36:20
subtle. And when people are sitting
36:23
together, they hold back. What I'm all about is like,
36:27
we're stripping that away. Sometimes there's just a lot of
36:30
pain and a lot of history there that's hard to be able to talk
36:35
about yourself. I have worked with couples in
36:38
the past where I've like worked with them completely separately.
36:42
And there was like a very strong wall there where I don't share
36:46
information. It's like, what do you want and
36:49
why aren't you doing it? But I do think most of us don't
36:52
even know what we want because you mentioned this earlier,
36:56
Selfishness and feeling like focusing in on yourself and your
37:00
own desires and your own needs is selfish.
37:03
That's a story that has been put on us by society, by people who
37:09
want us to give more. And like, do they want to
37:13
extract things from us? And when we're like, no, it's
37:18
not selfish. It's so that I can live a
37:22
joyful, pleasurable life that's meaningful to me, and then I
37:27
will attract the people in my life who are on that journey
37:31
with me. What does that feed in you?
37:33
It's probably a little bit of ego where it's like it feels
37:38
like a gift because as I said earlier, I feel like society is
37:42
like trying to contain us. I don't want other people to
37:47
feel like they can't be themselves or to try something
37:51
new because of this container that someone else constructed.
37:56
A ton of sense, I mean, and it's hard, at least for me
37:59
personally, to figure out what society has put on me, what I've
38:03
put on myself and what family has put on me.
38:05
And I think that that in it's what you're describing too.
38:09
Maybe people don't know what they want all the time.
38:12
And a lot of this is just about permission, and the place where
38:15
you can really start is by giving yourself permission to
38:19
dream. What's that look like?
38:20
How do you give yourself permission?
38:23
Well, I mean, it probably actually started when I was a
38:29
young person and I moved to New York City.
38:34
I became someone else and that was like getting away from my
38:39
family. And I wouldn't say that my
38:40
family was like super controlling or anything, but I
38:43
was the oldest. I was the old.
38:45
I was the first grandchild I bought.
38:47
And I had that good girl come. Like I love being a good girl,
38:51
still do. You are a good girl.
38:53
I can. But now I like it in a different
38:56
way, right? And sometimes I'm I don't want
38:59
to be the girl if it doesn't work you.
39:03
Want to be the good girl when you want to be the good girl?
39:05
Yes. And when I get recognition for
39:07
it, I think that that's when it started.
39:10
So I think that there was some sort of like separation from
39:13
like expectations or perceived expectation from family and from
39:19
the place where I grew up. I was like, well, now I'm going
39:22
to be a weirdo. I just kind of became that.
39:25
It was confirmed to me constantly.
39:27
I think that was just my personal drive and not like
39:31
letting anyone say you can't do that.
39:34
I think it's a very powerful thing to be able to be called
39:37
weird or looked at as different and continue on that path of
39:40
being an authentic self. Stay in your lane.
39:43
I will very quickly get back in my lane because I jokingly say
39:46
I've been called weird all my life, but because I have to a
39:49
certain extent, I continued marching to the beat of my own
39:52
drum, but in ways that I felt safe for me to do that.
39:56
I think it's a very powerful thing when you are able to stay
39:59
the course and continue expressing yourself freely.
40:03
That's tough and. You find your people and you
40:05
find the environment where that is appreciated.
40:08
That's probably how I found what I discovered about myself was
40:13
through that. Like I will go outside the box
40:16
and it's like, look, if you're not going to see me and
40:19
appreciate me for who I am, going somewhere else.
40:21
OK. And how has that translated to
40:24
your current relationship right now?
40:27
Oh well, I felt teen because when I was early on on in that
40:31
life, I'm not a particularly submissive person.
40:36
I wasn't looking for someone to tame me or to control me or
40:42
anything like that. I was like the types of doms
40:46
that I was having interactions with us.
40:48
I like that flavor. I found that there was some
40:51
weaponization of terminology like you're not a true
40:55
submissive. My husband doesn't walk through
40:58
the world being all alpha Donny. Like he's definitely not that
41:03
type of person. So I get to see like these
41:06
different and it's kind of like this dance, like it's not all
41:10
24/7 thumbs up. And we used to think we might
41:14
want that. There's still the possibility
41:17
that in the future we might have that it doesn't work where you
41:21
have another person living with you who's not consenting to
41:25
being around that. It can be under the radar, but
41:27
it's also very hard to be a solopreneur and all the things
41:33
like life kicks in the way of DS.
41:36
That's kind of where we are currently.
41:39
As you said earlier, you are dating your business.
41:41
Dating my business. I feel sometimes like I'm in an
41:43
avoidant relationship with my own business because I'm like,
41:47
oh this is scary and rough and could fail so.
41:52
You're not in an avoidant relationship with your business
41:54
like you're showing up like you're kicking ass.
41:58
Shook you down this path. Oh, just, I mean being an older
42:02
woman who left a career to raise her kids and ended up divorced
42:09
and financially was fine post divorce and I really still
42:16
wanted to be there for my kids during the times when I had
42:19
them. It was important to me, so I
42:23
didn't realize how difficult it was going to be in my 40s to go
42:28
back to my old work. So I had to reinvent myself a
42:32
couple of times. I did coaching certification.
42:35
Coaching is different. You're providing the service and
42:37
someone is paying for it, right? But it gives you insight into,
42:42
like I was saying before, just the hidden shadow side of people
42:47
that other people don't get to see.
42:49
And it felt like an honor to me. I have a lot of feelings about
42:54
it and just like, Oh my God, like what an honor that someone
42:59
exposed themselves to me in this way.
43:02
And I want to hold it like very carefully.
43:06
That's what brings me to couching.
43:07
It's like, look, you can tell me your darkest craving, you know,
43:14
need kinky desire. And I'm not going to be like,
43:19
oh, like, don't you think there's something wrong with
43:21
you? Like, and that's what people do.
43:23
They apologize kink. And I also find it very
43:27
frustrating that sort of content or language, anything about
43:31
sexuality and pleasure, that even talking about kink gets
43:34
thrown in this bucket of like, some big scary thing that's
43:38
going to lead to bad things happening.
43:41
Actually, I think is so very dangerous because they want us
43:46
to live in the shadows. They want us to be censored.
43:49
They want us to not have the power that lays the groundwork
43:55
for the bad things happening. King shouldn't be so far
43:58
underground because that's when the bad things can happen.
44:03
Like all these things, I mean your work and my work and so
44:06
many good people's work, so many educators out there were trying
44:10
to be like negotiations are kind of like actually y'all should be
44:14
taking lessons from us because you're not doing the things that
44:18
you need to be doing. I don't even expect people to
44:20
know all the things that they're supposed to be doing.
44:23
You're not going to inherently know.
44:24
I think it's my point. It's about the research and
44:27
talking to people. When I heard your business
44:29
thing, No shame with CJI was like, does what it says on the
44:32
tin. That's what we're looking for.
44:34
Like great name. I love getting to talk to people
44:37
and realize they're not just talking the talk, they're
44:40
walking the walk and you are living your life in that way.
44:43
Thank you, the authenticity makes it everything.
44:46
So if somebody wanted to book a session with you, where can I
44:49
find you? So I'm mostly on Instagram.
44:52
It's no shameless CJ on Instagram.
44:55
I have a link tree there and I have a couple of free resources.
44:59
Currently I am pushing sort of like getting to know yourself
45:04
while dating and like avoiding the pitfalls of like falling in
45:09
love too fast and all of those sorts of things.
45:12
So I have a free resource called Build a Feelings Tracker.
45:16
So every time you go on a date, you print one of these out and
45:20
you use it as a debrief for yourself when you come back.
45:24
It's like a gut check and just sort of a reminder of like how
45:28
you can stay like present and not get carried away.
45:32
So I'm primarily on Instagram. I also have a website,
45:36
noshamelesscj.com. On both of those, you can e-mail
45:40
me or send me a message or book a consultation call, you know,
45:46
see if we could work together in some.
45:49
It has been an absolute pleasure.
45:51
I really could talk to you all night, but I will have you on
45:54
again because I know that we only scraped the surface of the
45:57
things we wanted to talk about today.
45:59
Yes, awesome. All right.
46:01
Thanks so much, CJ. Thanks, Amanda.
46:05
If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave
46:08
a review and share it with anyone who might find it
46:10
interesting. And if you have any questions or
46:12
topics you'd like me to cover in future episodes, feel free to
46:15
reach out e-mail info@thekingconsultant.com.
46:19
Until next time, keep on kinking on.