Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / The Conversation That Changed Everything | The Transformation Gap Episode 22
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Have you ever stopped and wondered, why is change so hard? Not starting, not wanting to change, actually changing. Because if you're anything like most people, you already know a lot. You know you should eat better, exercise more, be more patient, communicate better, get more sleep, spend more time with your family, stop procrastinating, you already know. So why is there such a gap? Between what you know and the way you consistently live? That's a question Mark and I have been wrestling with for a long time. And not just on this podcast, not just through coaching, but through years of watching people who genuinely want to change and still struggle to make it stick. Over the last year, we've spent countless hours talking through this idea. Sometimes it's during coaching sessions or sometimes after podcast interviews, sometimes just sitting Talking and asking ourselves, what are we really seeing? On Thursday I was down in Miami recording some promotional videos for something Mark and I have been building behind the scenes together, and for the first time, we publicly put a name to an idea that we've spent the last year developing. Not because it's a new direction, but because it's the cleanest way we ever found to describe what we've been seeing all along. We call it the transformation gap. And today We'd like to introduce it to you. Welcome back to another episode of Rebuild and Fulfill. I'm Kelsey Dunbar. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: And I'm Mark Ridala. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: You know, Mark, as I was flying home yesterday, I kept replaying those conversations in my head. Not because I thought, wow, we created something brand new. It was actually the opposite. I kept thinking, this is what we've been talking about all along. If somebody has been listening to this podcast from the beginning, we've talked about showing up, we've talked about taking the first step, we've talked about consistency, recovery, mental health, identity, habits. As different as those conversations seem, they're all connected. And yesterday, for the first time, I felt like we finally found that language that ties them all together. Not just for us, but hopefully for everybody listening. So today isn't really about introducing a summit, which we'll get into later. It's about introducing an idea. One thing I think has to start on that one. One thing that I think has the potential to change the way people I'm starting over again. Okay, I'm just starting So today isn't really about introducing a summit, which we'll get into later. It's about introducing an idea. One that I think has the potential to change the way people think about transformation. So, Mark, let's start here. Why do you think this question has stayed with us for so long? Why do people genuinely want to change? But still struggle to create lasting transformation. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: That's a good question. I mean Honestly, I think that people genuinely want change, Kelsey. Nobody wants to stay stuck where they're at. but wanting change is very different than creating change. And to create change, you know, you you have to change your mindset, you have to change your habits, you have to identify where those changes need to occur. And And adapt and and and implement on a regular basis. And as we've alluded to in previous podcasts, change is scary in everyday life. We're not just talking like, you know, health, whether it's physical health or mental health, but just in everyday life. And you know, from a recovery perspective, if you're talking on the mental health or you're talking about mental health and some form of addiction, it's even scarier because you find out that there's a lot of areas in your life that you have to make changes in to to to be to to develop a recovery lifestyle. And some people want to They they want to do it their own way a lot of times. I mean, you would look at the alcohol world. You know, the great obsession of every alcoholic is to control and enjoy their drink of choice. I always say in alcohol addiction, the great obsession of every alcoholic or drug addict is to control and enjoy their drink or drug of choice. That says that in the AA big book. The very next sentence is that it cannot be done. So a lot of times it's trial and error as opposed to jumping in. And then what that does is that prevents the progress of the transformation that you're looking for. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, that's exactly it. I I've never sat across from someone and thought, they just don't care. Most people care deeply. In fact, sometimes they care so much that every setback feels like proof that they're failing. And you know how we feel about that word. And and that's heartbreaking because I've also never believed people stay stuck because they're lazy or weak or broken. They stay stuck because something keeps getting in the way. And for years I couldn't quite explain what that something was. I could see it, I just couldn't describe it. So think about how many times we've heard people say I know what I need to do. How many times have you heard that? I know I need to eat better, I know I need to stop drinking, I know I need to ask for help, I know I need to communicate better, I know I need to set boundaries. I know. But then comes the next sentence. So why can't I actually do it? I think that's one of the most honest questions a person can ask. So somewhere along the way, Mark and I realized that question wasn't pointing to a lack of information. It was pointing to something else. That's what we've started calling the transformation gap. You know, I have a feeling that years from now, Mark, we'll look back on this conversation and realize this was the day we finally found the language for what Suffer to Tougher has been trying to say all along. Not because this idea is new. Not because we suddenly changed directions, but because we finally found the words to describe something we've both believed for a very long time. And before anybody listening thinks, great, another framework. That's actually not what this is. It's simply a way of describing something almost all of us have experienced. The transformation gap is the space between what we know and what we consistently live. That's it. Simple. Everything falls under that umbrella. But once we started looking at life through that lens, we saw it everywhere. You see it in health. People know movement matters. They know nutrition matters. Sleep matters. Stress matters. Yet millions of people still struggle to consistently live those things. You see it in relationships. People know communication matters, forgiveness matters, being present matters. But knowing and consistently living it are two very different things. Recovery, business, leadership. Parenting, mental health, different circumstances, same gap. So Mark, where have you seen that gap show up most clearly in your own life? Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Pretty much everything that you just mentioned. I mean, I'm being honest with you. you know, when I look back at the way I was living my life, and and the thing about it was I really didn't think I was I mean, I knew I was struggling with with alcohol and substances, okay? I didn't quite understand why I was struggling with alcohol and substances. And then I realized that I you know I had underlying mental health, you know, with depression and anxiety and and and the PTSD. But as a result of that being undiagnosed for such a long time, Kelsey, I mean there was you know, there obviously was, you know, strained relationships. You know, I mean obviously my wife divorced me and the kids don't talk to me. So, you know, I it Changes need to be made across the board. And I and I think that again, going back to question number one, that's why sometimes it could be so scary. I mean, literally, changes need to be made with the way I communicate and the way I react and anger issues and things like that when it comes to relationships. Mental health, you know, cop learning coping skills, you know, to deal with anxiety and PTSD, learning how to get the depression in check by practicing like mindfulness and things like that. learning to ask for help. Again, we have ego. It goes against, you know, what I was taught or what a lot of men are taught, or a lot of individuals are taught in general. Put the male aside. He that you know, you just have to figure it out on your own. It's a weakness to s you know, to show emotions and things of that nature. obviously, in order to get the mental health in check and to become sober off of alcohol and substances, you have to develop healthier habits. And it's not just abstaining from alcohol or abstaining from, you know, opiate pain pills, which is my drug of choice. It's really making changes across the board. Because you you know, you wanna be sober off the off the alcohol and substances or whatever your drug of choice is, but you also have to work on the underlying mental health so that way you don't go back to some form of addiction. So, I mean, really it was across the board. And when I made that comment on the last podcast about when you realize you gotta change everything, you wanna run outside the room, that's that's what I meant by it. When you do some soul searching and you really get some education and realize where that gap is. scared the shit out of me to be perfectly honest with you. And that's why you gotta practice mindfulness and that's why we gotta take the first step and we gotta we gotta climb that mountain one step at a time as opposed to looking at the whole mountain. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah. And I think that's why this really resonates, because every person listening probably already thought of an area of their own life that they think that needs to change or they know that needs to change for them to become the person that they want to be. Not because we tell them this is where your gap is, because you already know. You know, they've felt it maybe for years. And and here's the encouraging part simply recognizing that gap. Doesn't mean you failed. It means you become aware of where growth still needs to happen. That's a hopeful realization, not a hopeless one. So keep that in mind. Mark, one of the things I've appreciated most about this last year is that we never rushed this. We didn't wake up one morning and decide, hey, let's create a coaching framework. this actually came from hundreds of conversations, people sharing their stories. Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Guests sharing their stories, our own experiences, coaching sessions, podcast episodes, even the conversations we we have off the microphones, whether it's on your way to work or on your way home from work, and and we have those conversations all the time. We realized we kept describing the same thing from different angles. Yesterday just happened to be the first day that we publicly put a name to it when I was doing those videos, and it culminated. hundreds of conversations. And you know, not because this thing just suddenly existed, but because it finally felt ready. So when I first started saying the transformation gap, what was your reaction? Did it immediately click for you or did it take a little while? Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: No, it immediately connected because as I shared with you, Kelsey, and I'm not allowed to bring my my cell phone into into the hospitals when I speak in at the psychiatric units or the detox units. So I had individuals like print and and laminate pictures of me when I was in not a good way. versus now and the one comment that you hear from the doctors and the nurses and certainly the patients that I'm talking to is what an unbelievable transformation. I mean that's the word that you actually hear. But you know, they're just looking at the physical. They're just looking at the pictures. And it got me thinking about what transformation is. I mean when I do social media posts like on TikTok I put hashtag transformation. So I mean it makes perfect sense because I mean trans transforming, at least from my perspective, from where I was at, was multifaceted. I mean, yeah, I mean it's the physical component, but there were so many other things that had to go into it for me to take that one picture of me in a bad way versus, you know, where I'm at now. Know it obviously describes, you know, where I've been, where I'm at now, and truthfully, where I still want to go. And I think that's important because I mean I still want to be better. I wish I want to be a better human being. And you know, it wasn't something new. I mean, the transformation gap were to something new, but I mean I knew that, you know, when people Get sober a lot of times and live a life of recovery, they transform. I mean, I showed you pictures of individuals before, before, and after. I mean, it's amazing to see. And you show me pictures of the clients that you've worked with on the weight loss side, and it's amazing and beautiful to see. But, you know, through that weight loss or through somebody getting sober, there's so much transforming on the way that they live their life. You know, so it makes perfect sense to me. It really does. And I'm glad we actually put a name to it because it it it resonates with me and I'm sure it's gonna resonate with the audience. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, I mean that that's exactly how I felt. It it wasn't like excitement because we created something. It it doesn't change the work that we're doing. It was just more like relief because sometimes you know something is true, you just haven't really found the right words for it yet. You know, the right words to describe it. And once you finally do, everything starts to make sense. Things start to come into focus. So I actually think that's why this feels different. We're not asking people to believe something they've never experienced. We're simply giving language to something they've probably been feeling their whole life. So here's why I think this actually matters so much. For years, people have blamed themselves. Maybe I'm lazy. Maybe I don't have enough discipline. I I just don't want it badly enough, I guess. I always quit. I'll never change. Those are heavy things to believe about yourself. But what if those aren't actually the right question? What if the better question is, what keeps getting in my way? Because once we stop attacking ourselves, we can finally start understanding ourselves. And I think that's where real transformation begins. So, Mark, do you think that's one of the biggest mistakes that people make? That they immediately blame themselves instead of becoming curious about what's actually happening? Marc Rogala Co-Founder S2T: I think shame and guilt keeps you in the rut, it keeps you stuck. And I think curiosity creates growth. And that curiosity could be so many different things, Kelsey. It could be somebody inspiring you. Which is which was with me. You know, and I hope that you know, when I with the work that I do at the Behavioral Help Place, that I inspire others and it ca it gets them curious. Well, you know, geez, I mean this gentleman, if he could do it, I you know, I could do it, right? Being in recovery or getting into recovery, it obviously asked me, it it taught me, excuse me, to ask the right questions and to identify like areas that I needed to improve on or transform on. And I think that when people struggle, at least on the mental health. or some form of addiction, or they're don't necessarily they're not happy with, you know, their their their physical appearance. You know, there's a lot of times a lack of self-compassion that needs to be worked on. And I think that creating that self-compassion is putting the excuses aside and actually starting to implement some changes To transform and get you to where you need to be. So it's an act of self-love, basically. Showing respect for yourself. Kelsey Dunbar Co-Founder S2T: Yeah, I I love that. Be because curiosity changes everything. Instead of asking, What's wrong with me? Maybe we start asking, Why haven't I just understood yet? That's a completely different conversation. One of the reasons I wanted to have this conversation today is because over the next couple of months, you're gonna start hearing Mark and I using this phrase more often. Not because we're changing who we are, but because we finally found language that brings together everything Suffer to Tougher has always stood for. And yes, the Transformation Gap is also the foundation of something we're incredibly excited about. This September we'll be hosting our very first Transformation Gap Summit. We hope it's going to become an annual thing. Yesterday happened to be the day that I was recording some of these promotional videos for it. As I was flying home, I realized we couldn't keep talking about the summit without first sharing the idea that inspired it. Over the coming weeks, we'll tell you more about the summit and we'll introduce some of the incredible speakers. We'll unpack some of these ideas much more deeply, but today was simply just about inviting you into the conversation, because this conversation belongs to all of us. So before we wrap up, I want to leave you with one question. Where in your life do you already know what to do? But struggle to consistently live it. Don't answer it with guilt. Don't answer it with shame. Just notice it. Because recognizing the gap isn't admitting defeat. It's identifying where growth is waiting for you. And I think that's one of the biggest lessons Mark and I have learned over the years. Transformation isn't about becoming someone else. It's about learning how to consistently become more of the person you already want to be. That's the journey. That's the conversation. And that's why I believe the transformation gap is going to become such an important part of what we do moving forward. Not because it's a catchy phrase, but because I think it gives people hope. Hope that if they understand the gap, they can begin to close it. One step, one direction, one conversation at a time. So as always, If today's episode resonated with you, share it with someone who has ever looked at their life and thought, I know what I should do. I just can't seem to do it. And if it sparked a question or made you think about your own transformation gap, we'd love to hear from you. Leave us a comment, send us a message, because this conversation is just getting started. So until next time, remember, you're not broken. You may just be overloaded. We'll see you next time on Rebuild and Fulfill. Take care.