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New Boss, Same Team · The Lagging Team

• 0:00
  Melanie Shires: You should not have to prove to anyone that you
• 0:04
  belong in the room. You do belong in the room. Period. And
• 0:09
  if other people are making you feel as though you don't belong
• 0:13
  there, then maybe that's the wrong room for you to be in.
• 0:17
  That doesn't mean you don't belong there.
• 0:20
  Devon Morris: This is the Lagging Team. Falling behind is
• 0:24
  a position, not a verdict. Today's episode: new boss, same
• 0:31
  team. Hello, hello, everyone. I want to welcome you to another
• 0:41
  episode where I have an amazing guest here. Right, I got Melanie
• 0:46
  Shires. She is the founder of Positively Melanie and the M
• 0:52
  Studio, and the creator of the Inner Authority Framework. I
• 0:57
  took the test myself. She spent years as a senior marketing
• 1:01
  leader, navigating change from inside organizations, teams of
• 1:07
  hundreds down to teams of five, and now she helps
• 1:10
  high-achieving, mission-driven women lead from the inside out.
• 1:17
  And I asked Melanie here because she sat in both chairs, she's
• 1:24
  been the one adapting to a new leader, and she's been the new
• 1:28
  leader that everybody else had to actually adapt to. And here's
• 1:33
  the deal. Here's what I keep coming back to, Melanie: a new
• 1:38
  boss walks in, and nothing changes on paper. We're talking
• 1:42
  about the same title, same duties,
• 1:45
  Melanie Shires: same
• 1:45
  Devon Morris: team, but every agreement the team was operating
• 1:50
  under was just just quietly evaporated, and no one says a
• 1:54
  word. I want you to just get us started by taking me back to a
• 2:00
  time a new boss walked in, and on paper, your job didn't
• 2:05
  change, but what did?
• 2:08
  Melanie Shires: Sure, yeah, I experienced this shortly after
• 2:11
  joining an organization as its marketing director in 2023. So
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  within months, the president and the executive who hired me
• 2:19
  announced their departures. New leadership arrived, and many of
• 2:23
  the colleagues and mentors I began building relationships
• 2:26
  with were replaced. My title hadn't changed; I was still
• 2:30
  responsible for leading marketing and developing my
• 2:32
  team, but my access to the conversations that shaped our
• 2:36
  work changed. I wasn't included in some of the meetings about
• 2:39
  marketing and branding and positioning. Even when my
• 2:42
  marketing coordinator was, I was accountable for work. I wasn't
• 2:48
  consistently being invited to help shape, which was really
• 2:52
  disconnecting. Right? It made me question where I stood. What
• 2:56
  grounded me was separating what was happening around me from
• 3:00
  what I knew about myself, my experience, I knew the value I
• 3:05
  brought, and I knew the kind of leader I wanted to be. I
• 3:08
  couldn't control how the new leaders behaved. I could choose
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  how I responded. I continued mentoring my young team,
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  collaborating across departments, and bringing care
• 3:21
  and professionalism to the work. Staying positive to contention.
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  The situation was really difficult. So you know, I look
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  at that was me trusting my inner authority, taking the situation
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  seriously without allowing it to become the measure of my worth.
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  So my takeaway from you know that leadership change was that
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  you may need to learn new expectations and adapt to your
• 3:47
  approach, which I was very willing to do. But you can
• 3:52
  assess what's happening around you without putting everything
• 3:55
  you know about yourself on trial.
• 3:59
  Devon Morris: Well, that's that's that's interesting. So,
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  so here's the question: You were working. What did the team do
• 4:07
  while you were working through it?
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  Melanie Shires: Well, it was my responsibility as the leader to
• 4:13
  make sure that my team didn't know everything that was going
• 4:18
  on above me. So I just continued to focus on what I could focus
• 4:24
  on. I can't change how, like I said, the new leadership was
• 4:26
  acting. But what I could do was continue to nurture and develop
• 4:31
  my team. You know, focus on their professional development
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  as opposed to what I was being excluded from or how leadership
• 4:40
  was treating me in my role as the leader for my team. Does
• 4:44
  that make sense?
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  Devon Morris: That makes complete sense to me. And how
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  did that actually make you feel? Because part of that is you got
• 4:50
  to shield the team away from things, and all these things,
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  and things are changing in a way where you may feel
• 4:57
  uncomfortable, where you may feel comfortable. With some
• 5:00
  things, how did you deal from your inner place?
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  Melanie Shires: Yeah. So for me, like I said, I needed to focus
• 5:10
  on the things that I had control over. Again, I and this is with
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  anyone. You don't have control over how other people act and
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  behave. That's their, you know, that's that's on them really. I
• 5:23
  had control over how I responded to things and then how I treated
• 5:28
  my team. So really, what type of leader did I want to be? So I
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  wanted to be the leader that was transparent, the leader that was
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  empathetic, the leader that you know did active listening and
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  focused on my team and the things that I knew that I wanted
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  from my leader, right? So I did all the things that I wanted to
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  see my leader provide for me for my team, and that's how I
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  shielded them. It really, again, I can't control other people,
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  but I can control how I show up and behave.
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  Devon Morris: Did you ever let the leaders that you wanted to
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  get those things from. Did you ever let them know about that?
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  Speak out about that.
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  Melanie Shires: Yes, I did. However, in my situation with
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  this particular, what I just explained, new leadership came
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  in. Everybody was moved around. It fell on deaf ears. However, I
• 6:20
  have been in situations where I've approached leadership about
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  something that I felt needed to change, and they were open and
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  curious, and so and again they they showed active listening,
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  they listened, and they did make those changes. So it really
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  depends on you know the individual, but you you should
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  still always speak your truth and understand that even though
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  you can't control everyone else, you can control how you show up,
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  how you handle something. If you if you are strong in your inner
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  authority and you know what you're bringing to a position,
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  you know your worth and your value, then that should help you
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  to have those difficult conversations. That, or if they
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  feel like they're difficult conversations, you know,
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  standing up and speaking your truth, it makes it easier for
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  you to do that and to understand that regardless of what the
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  response is, that you've done your part by speaking your
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  truth. Like I couldn't control whether someone listens to me,
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  is open and curious, and helps me with those changes, or if
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  they just completely shut off and they they don't care. That's
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  not that's not on me, right? But what is on me is me being able
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  to speak my truth. So if something is bothering me, to
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  make sure that I address it as opposed to staying quiet and
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  then being resentful.
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  Devon Morris: You know, hopefully that. I keep hearing
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  you say something, and it goes back to the words you just said:
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  the inner authority. I would love for you to tell me about
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  some of the facets that are associated with that inner
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  authority to just educate the audience a little bit more about
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  what it is and what some of those facets of that is.
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  Melanie Shires: Yeah, absolutely. So inner authority
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  is really trusting yourself, your inner truth, and we have
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  been conditioned, just as a society, really globally,
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  everyone has been conditioned to care so much about external
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  validation, right? So even when you're little, as a little kid,
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  you run up, mommy, daddy, look at what I did, and mom and dad
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  give you reassurance of what you did, right? And so we've learned
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  that, and it goes through when you're trying to socialize in
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  middle school and high school, then when you graduate and you
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  go to college, and even as you're an adult and going
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  through your career, right, or whatever you're going to do for
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  a living, there is always this performance that we do, and
• 9:01
  proving that we do in order to be accepted. Whether that's
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  accepted into a social group, whether that is you know
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  accepted into an academic group, whether that is when you're you
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  know in your career being accepted as the expert that you
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  are. Right. So it's always performing. So with inner
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  authority, it is just strengthening your truth to
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  yourself, like trusting yourself. And the facets to
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  that, when you have a strong inner authority, when you start
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  trusting yourself and kind of shutting out the external noise
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  because that's what it is. A lot of times, you make better
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  decisions, right? You uphold your boundaries, you steward
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  your energy, and you live in life coherence. Meaning, you
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  show up in alignment with your values. So that is. Why, when
• 10:01
  you are stronger in your inner authority, you are able to have
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  conversations that may seem like they're difficult, or you know,
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  some people look at them as well. I don't want to have a
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  difficult or confrontation. It's not. It's you're speaking your
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  truth, and you are okay with whatever that external response
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  is, right? Because you know and you trust you have inner knowing
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  and inner truth, right? As opposed to caring so much what
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  externally people are saying, right? So again, you make better
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  decisions because you know that you make a decision, and that
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  doesn't mean that you don't ask for guidance, or you know, input
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  or insight from people you trust. But if you're someone who
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  has a decision to make, and you're constantly going to 5, 6, 7
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  people and trying to find out what they think, or if they
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  agree with what you're leaning towards, then you're not going
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  to make a quality decision because you're listening to
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  everybody else and you're not trusting your inner truth, your
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  inner knowing. So that's what inner authority comes into. If
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  you are someone who constantly gets your boundaries stretched,
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  and I find this is very interesting, Devon. I find this
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  with high achieving people, people who are top in the in the
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  in their field, right? Top salesperson, top whatever. Their
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  boundaries don't get stretched. They're very strict in their
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  boundaries. What happens is their boundaries dissolve around
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  them without them even realizing it because they are the top
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  performer, and they get all the accolades. And our egos get fed,
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  right? When that happens, you know you're getting raises and
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  you're getting bonuses and you're coming up on the stage at
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  the end of the year and getting the you know trophies and
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  everything, but what you don't realize is that now you are the
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  go-to person. Now the goalpost has been moved, so you look
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  around and you have five projects and all of your peers
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  have two; they're able to clock out at 5 o'clock. You're working
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  till 10. They're able to spend the weekend with their family.
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  You're working through the weekend. They're able to go on
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  vacation, and even though you got the bonus and have the money
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  to go on vacation, you can't because you're strapped with
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  you're the superstar. You're the go-to, and so that's where the
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  boundaries usually, you know, get displaced for high achievers
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  as they evaporate. And then energy: how you steward your
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  energy, what are you putting, and who are you putting your
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  energy into, and are you getting that replenished, right? And so
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  sometimes we have to take stock in, you know, where are we
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  putting all of our our efforts and energy into, and are we
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  getting a return on that? Are we able to replenish from that? And
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  then again, like I said, the life coherence is really: are
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  you showing up in alignment with your values?
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  Devon Morris: You, you, you, you kind of connected some points
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  here that just really had me thinking right now, and and you
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  know I was thinking about any person, but you really talked
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  about that high achiever. I mean, yeah, things dissolving
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  around them, and you said higher achievers don't realize how they
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  really are tethered to that external validation until it's
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  on, until it just evaporates and goes away. So then,
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  what does that tether look like before it actually snaps, and
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  then what does it look like after?
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  Melanie Shires: Yeah, well, if and these are a lot of the women
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  because I work with women, but it is a lot of the women that I
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  work with. They're on the precipice of burnout, or they've already
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  burnt out because they usually are the top in their field. They
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  usually are very driven, perfectionism. You know all the
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  things. What it looks like before that happens, what it
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  looks like is you have this underpinning of anxiety,
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  friction. Your body will always tell you when there's something
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  wrong. So usually your nervous system is screaming, right? And
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  it comes out in different ways. A lot of people just they can't
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  put their finger on it, but they feel like I'm always having
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  headaches. I'm always feeling stressed. I go home. I snap off
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  on my family, and I don't even know why. I should feel a
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  certain way because I'm making really good money. You know, I'm
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  very revered in my in my industry or my field. You know,
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  I ticked all the boxes. Right, I've got the big house. Me and
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  my husband, you know, can go and do things. You know, my kids are
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  off to college. You know, all the things, but I still feel
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  this quiet friction, which again causes me to have headaches,
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  stress, all the things. Right, your body will let you know.
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  It'll be screaming to you. In in in in the lack of health, it'll
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  scream to you that something is wrong, and that's usually when
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  people are at the precipice of burnout. What happens after they
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  burn out is their body completely shuts down. They
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  completely shut down, right? That's when the person is like,
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  okay, I'm leaving my you know high paying job, and I need a
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  sabbatical for a few months. Don't bother me, and let me re
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  let me kind of regroup and figure out what I want to do
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  next, right? Or or they get really ill. Their their their
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  their body shuts down and they're really ill, and so it
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  forces them to take that sabbatical. So either way, it's
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  either a mental situation where they just they hit burnout or
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  their body shuts down in some way that forces them to take
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  that pause. But there is a pause that happens, and usually the
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  people that I find that happens to are usually in midlife, so
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  they're usually 40 plus. They're usually very successful on
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  paper, meaning you know all of the all of the ticks are you
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  know the check boxes are ticked, just like you said. The external
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  validation is there, but it's internally where you know their
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  their inner guide is screaming for help.
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  Devon Morris: So then, if people don't listen to that signal and
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  they don't radical, they don't take the pause. What what
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  happens to those people?
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  Melanie Shires: Yeah, like I just said, their body will let
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  them know. Their body will shut down. Your body will shut down.
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  Trust me, and that's where people have burnout, right? So
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  when you're on the precipice of burnout, you're already having
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  the headaches, feeling stressed, not feeling light and joyful.
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  You're just not. You know, you're you're constantly under
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  the gun, the hustle. Like you know, I got to get the next
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  thing done. I've got a lot of pressure on me, you know. I'm
• 17:02
  juggling multiple things, and I always tell people this, and I
• 17:06
  used to tell my team this too. Every single human being has
• 17:10
  lots of balls in the air. There's no one who's like, I
• 17:13
  don't have any balls in the air. Everyone has balls in the air.
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  The difference is that you need to understand and discern which
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  balls are made of glass and which balls are made of rubber,
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  right? And so the balls that are made of glass, you need to catch
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  those. So those that are in the air, those you need to catch.
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  What happens a lot of times are people are so focused on the
• 17:38
  rubber balls that they let the glass ones drop and break, and
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  it's usually the glass ones that are the balls that externally
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  everyone's not focusing on. Everyone focuses on the rubber
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  balls, and the thing is, is that rubber balls will bounce, so you
• 17:55
  can always catch them, right? And so I think that's the thing.
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  It's like understanding what's important, and one of those
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  glass balls is always going to be our mental, emotional
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  well-being. It really is, and so that's more important than you
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  know how many deals you close. You know how you know how many
• 18:15
  projects you can take on. I'm not saying don't bring your best
• 18:19
  self to whatever work you're doing, because you should,
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  right? But there's a difference in bringing your best self to
• 18:27
  the work and being overworked, right? So and and letting again
• 18:34
  boundaries dissolve, letting your energy get zapped dry,
• 18:40
  right? Without any replenishment, and any work
• 18:44
  environment that is healthy and nurturing and non-toxic is going
• 18:51
  to make sure that there is always work-life alignment,
• 18:55
  right? There's never going to be balance, but there is going to
• 18:57
  be work-life alignment. So the expectation should never be that
• 19:01
  you sacrifice your mental and emotional well-being for
• 19:04
  paycheck. Period.
• 19:08
  Devon Morris: I I can't disagree at all, and you know you you see
• 19:12
  it, especially if it's somebody close to you. Definitely can see
• 19:16
  a lot more of that, and people in their health and things of
• 19:20
  that nature just happening over time because of them not looking
• 19:25
  out for the glass balls, right? Exactly.
• 19:28
  Here are the rubber ones, the ones that doesn't matter the
• 19:31
  most. And and the thing is, is that your body will stop you
• 19:34
  sooner or later. Like, does not yeah
• 19:37
  Melanie Shires: exactly
• 19:38
  Devon Morris: case. So we and
• 19:39
  Melanie Shires: and that's that. Yeah, that's how burnout
• 19:41
  happens. I mean, burnout is your body is shutting you down. So if
• 19:45
  you don't, if you're not able to on your own say, "Hey, I need to
• 19:50
  take a pause, or let me have some of those difficult
• 19:53
  conversations because I'm listening to my inner authority
• 19:57
  to say, "Hey," I appreciate that you want me to take on this new
• 20:02
  project, and I will take on this new project because I know it's
• 20:05
  really important to our bottom line or the company or whatever.
• 20:09
  However, who are we going to delegate the three that I'm
• 20:13
  already working on? So we need to delegate those to someone
• 20:16
  else, right? So it's not that you don't need to again perform
• 20:23
  well in your job. It's you need to also speak your truth. You
• 20:27
  need to also understand that and trust in yourself and your worth
• 20:32
  and all the things. Because the reason why people don't have
• 20:34
  these conversations, the reason why people allow things to go on
• 20:39
  even though they know it's toxic, is because they don't.
• 20:43
  They want validation. I don't want to lose my job. I don't
• 20:47
  want to think that they don't feel like I'm, you know, for the
• 20:51
  company. Again, you should not have to prove to anyone that you
• 20:57
  belong in the room. You do belong in the room, period. And
• 21:02
  if other people are making you feel as though you don't belong
• 21:06
  there, then maybe that's the wrong room for you to be in.
• 21:10
  That doesn't mean you don't belong there, right? So that's
• 21:13
  the thing too.
• 21:16
  Devon Morris: You know, you you are saying things that are just
• 21:18
  kind of right on the same plate with me. So then, I'm going back
• 21:21
  to the first 30 days. The first 30 days.
• 21:24
  Melanie Shires: Yes,
• 21:25
  Devon Morris: when it changes.
• 21:28
  Melanie Shires: Yes, and
• 21:28
  Devon Morris: then there's something incongruent happening,
• 21:33
  right? Why do people recalibrate around the new leader before
• 21:42
  deciding whether anything about them actually needs to change.
• 21:49
  Melanie Shires: Yeah, well, I mean, I can talk about this from
• 21:51
  really both sides of the chair because I've been the new leader
• 21:54
  coming into a situation, and I've also been someone who's
• 21:58
  been in the environment where a new leader has come in. So when
• 22:02
  I was the leader, the new leader, actually, I stepped into
• 22:08
  an executive sales leadership role of a large retailer. I'm
• 22:12
  not going to say the name; everybody knows it. Large
• 22:14
  retailer, hundreds of employees across several layers of teams.
• 22:18
  So they already had an established culture. They had
• 22:21
  silos, they had developed over time. I needed to understand how
• 22:26
  that structure was formed before I could effectively change it. I
• 22:29
  mean, there needed to be change, but I couldn't go in there and
• 22:32
  change it without an understanding of how it got to
• 22:35
  where it was. Right, so that meant that I needed to be
• 22:39
  curious about the why behind how the people worked, right? If I
• 22:44
  wanted to consider different methods or improve productivity,
• 22:49
  I first needed to understand the practices that they were
• 22:52
  accustomed to and what kept those practices in place. So
• 22:56
  that experience shaped how I think about entering as a new
• 22:59
  leader. You bring expertise, but the people already there bring
• 23:04
  knowledge of the environment, and both of those matter. And
• 23:07
  then, from the flip side, from the other chair, adapting to a
• 23:10
  new leader calls for the same openness, right? You need to get
• 23:14
  curious about their priorities, ask what they expect, and give
• 23:19
  yourself permission to learn without discounting your own
• 23:23
  experience. So that is really key because, again, like I said
• 23:27
  earlier, you can't control what type of leader is coming into
• 23:31
  the new space. What you can control is how you let that
• 23:36
  affect how you see yourself. Right? You don't discount your
• 23:40
  own experience because somebody's coming in who's not a
• 23:43
  good leader, right? That's you should never do that. So for me,
• 23:48
  both sides of what I just said, that's where inner
• 23:51
  authority comes in. It's self trust. It's giving me the
• 23:54
  confidence to listen before I decide on something and to be
• 23:59
  clear about what I bring, and you know, before I even start
• 24:05
  changing, you know, my approach to things.
• 24:08
  Devon Morris: Yeah,
• 24:08
  Melanie Shires: hopefully that that makes sense. That
• 24:10
  Devon Morris: that makes complete sense. I'm curious
• 24:12
  because I'm thinking you're the perfect leader. You're the one
• 24:15
  that never gets anything wrong, which I know that's not true,
• 24:18
  but you know that is
• 24:19
  Melanie Shires: not true.
• 24:22
  Devon Morris: What?
• 24:23
  Melanie Shires: That's how. That's how you learn. You know,
• 24:25
  you got to make mistakes to learn. That is.
• 24:27
  Devon Morris: That is okay. So then, my question is this,
• 24:30
  right? What did you read from each chair? Just an example,
• 24:35
  right? We're not trying to, you know, go through everything. So,
• 24:38
  what did you misread from each chair.
• 24:43
  Melanie Shires: Well, yeah. I mean, that's how I was able to
• 24:45
  learn how to be a better leader. Honestly, is going into
• 24:48
  situations, and especially, and I'm not saying you know just
• 24:51
  because you're young, but when you are less experienced, you
• 24:55
  know, the very first time that I became a leader, the very first
• 24:59
  promotion I got where I had to manage other people. Of
• 25:02
  course, I was not going to be as good at it as after I've done it
• 25:06
  for years and years, right? So of course everybody has that.
• 25:10
  The first time that you have a responsibility that's something
• 25:14
  new, you're you're you're learning. So I made a lot of
• 25:18
  these very mistakes, right? Going in as a leader, and not
• 25:22
  understanding that though I was very excited about oh oh this is
• 25:28
  a new opportunity for me to make change now I'm in a leadership
• 25:31
  position and I can actually you know be in charge to make the
• 25:38
  decisions that would bring about change that actually would
• 25:40
  improve things. I had to realize that okay, even though I'm
• 25:45
  excited about that, I have to read the room. I'm going into an
• 25:49
  environment with people who are used to doing things a certain
• 25:52
  way and a culture that had already been established. So,
• 25:57
  it's not going to come across with the same you know,
• 26:01
  excitement and fervor as I'm bringing to it, coming in and
• 26:05
  saying, "Okay, now I, I know you guys have been doing it this
• 26:07
  way. I want everybody to now do it this way, and you're starting
• 26:11
  to go in and change everything. I mean, you know how it is when,
• 26:15
  if you're, you know, a teenager and you have your bedroom set up
• 26:19
  a certain way, and then your parent comes in there and starts
• 26:22
  rearranging stuff. I mean, you're gonna be upset. You're
• 26:25
  gonna be like, "Wait, hold on a second. What are you doing? I
• 26:27
  had things the way I I had things put the way that I
• 26:30
  wanted, right? And that's with any human being. It's like your
• 26:35
  your environment, your your space, how you, and even the
• 26:42
  space in your mind, like how you have things organized, is in
• 26:46
  some ways comfortable to you, even if it's not as efficient,
• 26:50
  right? And especially if you've been doing it for a while, then
• 26:53
  it's there's there's habit in there too. So it's really hard
• 26:58
  to have somebody come in and just rearrange things, you know,
• 27:02
  without listening to why you've arranged it in the way you did
• 27:07
  in the first place, right? And so I had to learn that lesson,
• 27:10
  and so that's why, as an older leader, I was able to glean from
• 27:16
  those missteps and actually be a better leader, and then say,
• 27:20
  hey, you know what? When I go in, I need to make sure that I
• 27:23
  see the lay of the land, right? These individuals know the
• 27:26
  environment and culture. How can I come in, listen to what they
• 27:32
  like and why they like it, and even listen to what they would
• 27:36
  like changed? Because maybe it's in alignment with what I'm
• 27:39
  coming in thinking needs to be changed, right? So, let me do
• 27:43
  active listening. Let me be curious and open. And I think
• 27:47
  curiosity and openness is key in both sides, right? You need to
• 27:52
  be curious to learn and understand why things are the
• 27:56
  way they are. Why is the new boss coming in and wanting to
• 27:59
  make these changes? Why, as the new boss, the environment is the
• 28:04
  way it is. You know, even if it's dysfunctional, it's like
• 28:08
  how did it get there? Like to learn that, and and and that
• 28:12
  understanding then will help you to bring people along with you
• 28:17
  on the change, as opposed to dragging them into the change.
• 28:20
  Right? They'll they'll they'll they'll come in arms locked with
• 28:23
  you if you do it that way. And then from the flip side, being
• 28:27
  someone who has to adapt to a new leader again, it still gets
• 28:32
  back to active listening, curiosity, and being open, but
• 28:37
  also being strong in your inner authority and knowing the value
• 28:42
  you bring in who you are and how you contribute to the work
• 28:46
  you're doing for the organization or the company
• 28:48
  because, like I keep saying, you cannot control how someone else
• 28:53
  behaves, acts, shows up in the world, but you can control how
• 28:57
  you respond to
• 29:00
  Devon Morris: it. So
• 29:00
  Melanie Shires: hopefully that answers.
• 29:02
  Devon Morris: No, you you are answering everything. There's no
• 29:04
  hope to this, right? Everybody way more than what they asked
• 29:08
  for. So this is perfect. This is perfect. So I'm curious, right?
• 29:14
  You said the older leader. I'm gonna talk. Say to you. I'm
• 29:18
  gonna say Melanie, the more seasoned leader. What would
• 29:24
  yeah?
• 29:25
  Melanie Shires: Actually, that is better. Yeah, that's a that's
• 29:27
  a better terminology because I was trying to think like you
• 29:29
  know you can have someone who is a younger person who has been a
• 29:35
  leader for a while. Like somebody might have you know led
• 29:38
  teams at an earlier age than someone else, so I do like that
• 29:42
  better. Seasoned, that's much better.
• 29:44
  Devon Morris: So, so let's just talk about. So, let's just say,
• 29:47
  Melanie is seasoned leader. What would that seasoned leader tell
• 29:53
  the leader that was unseasoned, just absolutely brand new to
• 29:59
  leadership? One day, one.
• 30:03
  Melanie Shires: Yeah, exactly what I just said. Really, I
• 30:06
  would say the best three things you can do in the first 30 days,
• 30:12
  Devon Morris: yeah,
• 30:12
  Melanie Shires: right, are are being open, being curious,
• 30:17
  Devon Morris: yeah,
• 30:18
  Melanie Shires: and doing active listening, even though you might
• 30:22
  have a list, an agenda, like you know, things that you want to
• 30:26
  bring, and you're excited about it, because most leaders are
• 30:29
  going into an environment for to improve it, to have impact up in
• 30:36
  a positive way, and most people are not going in. Okay, let me
• 30:39
  just you know wreak chaos. No, they're going in and they're
• 30:42
  really excited about it. They have to understand that they're
• 30:45
  excited about the opportunity, but they have to understand
• 30:50
  they're going into an environment that has already
• 30:54
  been set right. And there's reasons why the environment is
• 30:59
  the way it is. And so again, to come in and listen to the people
• 31:03
  who are in that environment currently, as to what they like,
• 31:08
  what they would like to see change, why they think it's the
• 31:11
  way it is, that will actually that information, that's data
• 31:16
  that will make you step back and think a little bit and actually
• 31:22
  make better decisions. Really, I mean, you make better decisions
• 31:25
  when you have more information. When you have more data, you are
• 31:28
  able to make better decisions. So it's the same thing. It's
• 31:32
  like you walking into an environment because the company
• 31:35
  said we need to change this department, and now we're hiring
• 31:38
  you to come in and clean it up. Okay, well, what does "clean it
• 31:42
  up" mean? Like, you need to get data from the people who are in
• 31:46
  that department. Why is the department the way it is? You'll
• 31:49
  be amazed at how many employees would love to have their leader
• 31:55
  sit them down and ask them. So, how do you feel working here?
• 32:00
  How do you feel about this department? What do you think
• 32:03
  would be great to have change? What do you actually like? How
• 32:07
  can I help you to be better in this role, as opposed to coming
• 32:13
  in and saying, "Okay, this is what we need to do. We need you.
• 32:16
  You need to switch this. You need to do that. Or you know
• 32:19
  what I'm saying? It needs to be a an exchange, a conversation
• 32:25
  where you're doing more of the listening. That's what active
• 32:28
  listening is, and listening to you know the employees may be
• 32:32
  like you know what? Yes, this is a horrible, toxic environment,
• 32:36
  and I would love to see it change. But nobody asked us. We
• 32:39
  were just told this is what we need to do, and things that you
• 32:43
  know weren't really positive. There's been bullying going on
• 32:47
  here. There's been all these things going on that is left
• 32:50
  unchecked, and so we're looking for someone to help us. I mean,
• 32:56
  how would you know that if you just go in and not talk to
• 32:58
  anybody? That's important data, right? I mean, so I think if you
• 33:03
  go in with those three things,
• 33:05
  Devon Morris: yeah.
• 33:06
  Melanie Shires: Regardless, if you're a new leader or a
• 33:09
  seasoned leader, and you go in with openness, curiosity, and
• 33:16
  active listening, then I think that you're you're way ahead of
• 33:21
  most, and that you will find that the outcome will be very
• 33:24
  positive.
• 33:26
  Devon Morris: That is that is legitimately the perfect
• 33:29
  summary, right? And and you you hear you heard it directly from
• 33:33
  her again, and and it's kind of almost beating it into you. And
• 33:37
  the thing is, before any of us was leaders. All of us wished
• 33:42
  they would listen, right? All of
• 33:44
  Melanie Shires: us. Yes.
• 33:45
  Devon Morris: Some point, right? And and think back who you were.
• 33:50
  But here's the deal. Here's the deal. Because we only got so
• 33:52
  much time, so I have to keep I have to keep moving because we
• 33:55
  have to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. So here's the thing,
• 33:58
  right? Most leaders, I would consider to be a sandwiched
• 34:05
  leader. They're in between. They're leading some people, and
• 34:08
  they got some people that they report to to some degree. Okay,
• 34:13
  if think about that, what what's one new agreement that a leader
• 34:21
  in that situation should make with their team, like in the
• 34:26
  very first week.
• 34:29
  Melanie Shires: When you say what agreement that they should
• 34:32
  make, if they're like sandwiched in between, like I guess I'm
• 34:35
  clarifying just a little bit
• 34:36
  Devon Morris: between right, and so you got people you report to,
• 34:39
  right? But you got
• 34:40
  Melanie Shires: leadership, yeah,
• 34:42
  Devon Morris: and then you're leading people as well. So
• 34:44
  you're coming in brand new. What's one agreement that they
• 34:48
  should make with that team in the first week? Either above
• 34:53
  that, they
• 34:53
  Melanie Shires: will
• 34:54
  Devon Morris: then probably yeah,
• 34:55
  Melanie Shires: yeah. Okay, so yeah. So if I was if I was a
• 34:58
  leader that was coming in for the first week, which I have
• 35:01
  been, then my my first thing that I would want the team to
• 35:06
  know is that I'm going to sit down with each and every one of
• 35:10
  them, and you know get to know them. Really, that I mean again,
• 35:16
  it gets back to the openness, curiosity, and active listening.
• 35:20
  I want to have a conversation with each of them because I also
• 35:24
  am a strong believer in mentorship and of professional
• 35:30
  and personal development. So that was really big for me with
• 35:34
  my teams, all the teams that I had, regardless if they were
• 35:37
  large or small. I always wanted to know where did they see
• 35:41
  themselves? Where did they want to go? How could I help get them
• 35:45
  there? You know, if good leaders to me mentor and help develop
• 35:53
  other leaders, right? And so for me, I wanted to know: Is this a
• 35:57
  position that you want to stay in, or are you looking? Are your
• 36:00
  sights somewhere else, and how can I, being in the position
• 36:04
  that I'm in, help you get to where you want to go? So I can't
• 36:08
  do that if I don't sit down and ask you certain questions as a
• 36:13
  leader, right? So, so that would be the first, I guess, agreement
• 36:17
  that I would have, and that I have had when I've come into a
• 36:22
  new position as a leader in a company, organization, or
• 36:25
  department,
• 36:26
  Devon Morris: now the beauty of this is that you said that
• 36:28
  you've done it. So here's what I want to know from you: you've
• 36:34
  seen it and you've done it. What kind of behaviors do you see
• 36:39
  from people when you actually do do that, and then I want you to
• 36:44
  contrast that to other leaders that you've seen that didn't,
• 36:48
  and what type of behaviors you've seen between between the
• 36:51
  two.
• 36:52
  Melanie Shires: Yeah, and I can tell you what's the difference.
• 36:55
  Devon Morris: Yeah, if
• 36:56
  Melanie Shires: you go to my LinkedIn profile and you go down
• 36:59
  to recommendations, I have recommendations from people that
• 37:02
  I led, and people that have led me. So it's not all of my
• 37:06
  recommendations are from people saying she was a great da da da
• 37:09
  da. I have people saying she was a wonderful leader because she
• 37:13
  listened, she helped me, she you know what I'm saying. So so what
• 37:17
  happens when you do that as a leader is that you have people
• 37:21
  who, because they are inspired by you, not because they fear
• 37:25
  you or because they feel like they have to begrudgingly, they
• 37:30
  want to go above and beyond for you. My team wants to do well
• 37:35
  for me because they know that I have their best interest at
• 37:38
  heart, that I want the best for them that I am actually not
• 37:42
  holding back information, not you know trying to say well I'm
• 37:47
  the head of no I'm trying to help them through professional
• 37:52
  development if there's something they want to know if there's
• 37:54
  something they want to you know take on another responsibility
• 37:58
  because they want to learn or whatever absolutely if they ask
• 38:01
  me a question, or if there's someone I can introduce them to
• 38:04
  to help them in some way, absolutely. I am always open to
• 38:08
  mentoring, and when you do that, you get people who will go above
• 38:12
  and beyond for you without you having to say anything. Right?
• 38:16
  They will have your back. They will speak your name after
• 38:20
  they're long gone from being, you know, under you, and that to
• 38:26
  me, it's a legacy, and that is so beautiful. And and I don't
• 38:31
  know, it's just beautiful to have that. The flip side, and
• 38:35
  all of us can talk to that because we probably have had bad
• 38:38
  bosses and good bosses. But you know, the flip side to that is
• 38:42
  there are people who honestly you have to constantly fight
• 38:46
  with them to to get the productivity or the performance
• 38:49
  out of them. There's always sabotage that goes on sometimes,
• 38:54
  and then the biggest thing is is that those under you and those
• 38:59
  employees that you are leading, who know their inner authority,
• 39:04
  they will leave. They will not stay with you because they
• 39:07
  understand their worth, value, and opportunity. They know that
• 39:12
  they don't have to stay somewhere that they don't want
• 39:14
  to. That's all about boundaries and stewardship, energy
• 39:17
  stewardship, right? So they will not stay in a toxic environment.
• 39:22
  Devon Morris: Yeah.
• 39:23
  Melanie Shires: So you'll have good people leaving you. So
• 39:25
  yeah.
• 39:25
  Devon Morris: Which which which sucks, but just that's just
• 39:29
  truth, right? I mean.
• 39:31
  Melanie Shires: Oh yeah, that is true. That's like any
• 39:32
  relationship. If you are in a relationship, regardless of what
• 39:37
  it is, and you are giving and receiving, then that's going to
• 39:42
  be a good relationship. If you are just taking, taking, taking
• 39:45
  from someone, they're going to leave. It's not a good
• 39:47
  relationship for them. I mean, just think about yourself. Like
• 39:50
  you know, if you're constantly giving, and you're not, you
• 39:54
  know, getting anything back, meaning you know, there's no
• 39:58
  accountability for the other person doing things that really
• 40:03
  don't help a situation, like I was telling you guys in the very
• 40:06
  beginning. You know, I was in a situation where I was a leader
• 40:09
  over marketing, but yet being excluded from very important
• 40:12
  conversations on how that piece of the business would be
• 40:18
  implemented. How can I not be included in those conversations,
• 40:22
  but yet I was being held accountable for the outcome,
• 40:26
  right? So someone who knows their worth and value and the
• 40:31
  fact that they have options is not going to stay in that kind
• 40:35
  of relationship pretty long. You know what I mean? So
• 40:39
  Devon Morris: like that you said that because when change is
• 40:43
  happening around you, and it comes from above or from the
• 40:47
  side or wherever it's coming from, right? And your team
• 40:50
  really need answers. They really want the answers. Yeah, don't
• 40:55
  know, and you don't have the answer. How do you really hold
• 40:58
  things together? What do you do?
• 41:01
  Melanie Shires: Again, it's it's it's very easy to to focus on
• 41:09
  what you can control, not what other people right are are
• 41:13
  doing. So in that situation, I mean, I've had I've I've had
• 41:16
  that situation. So for example, I had a designer who was a
• 41:22
  part-time graphic designer on my team, and he was hired with the
• 41:27
  understanding that after six months we would consider him for
• 41:30
  full-time employment, right? Based on his performance, so six
• 41:33
  months came and went, right? And I'm trying to get approval
• 41:38
  because even though this was in my department, I needed approval
• 41:42
  from my boss and the CFO, right, for budgets and you know
• 41:46
  whatever. So, you know, I'm trying to hold on as long as I
• 41:50
  can. This person really, as you can imagine, wants some kind of
• 41:56
  clarity about his future, right? Am I getting more hours, more
• 41:59
  income, that kind of thing. So that's to say, I didn't have the
• 42:03
  external authority to prove to approve that change, but I had a
• 42:07
  responsibility to consider what I could offer him. So what I
• 42:13
  could offer him is what I've been talking about. I continued
• 42:15
  investing in his professional development, mentoring him,
• 42:20
  introducing him to entrepreneurs and solopreneurs who needed his
• 42:23
  design skills so he could get side work right. And I always
• 42:27
  encourage my team to build relationships and seek
• 42:31
  mentorship because opportunities often come through people you
• 42:34
  know and who know your work right. So I knew he had good
• 42:38
  work. I knew he did a good job with things, and I could vouch
• 42:42
  for him because I've seen his work. He worked for me, so it
• 42:46
  was really easy for me for people that I knew that were
• 42:49
  running small businesses or running businesses on their own,
• 42:52
  entrepreneur solopreneurs who needed design work. I'm like,
• 42:56
  hey, you should talk to this person, and I could vouch for
• 42:59
  this person because they worked for me, right? So again, the
• 43:04
  introduce you know my introductions couldn't replace
• 43:07
  the security he was asking for, but I could help him build
• 43:10
  connections and possibilities where you know I could while he
• 43:15
  waited. So that is
• 43:18
  Devon Morris: if you if you was my leader and you more money
• 43:23
  outside the company. Yeah, you're done.
• 43:28
  Melanie Shires: Well, and that well, and that's the thing too.
• 43:30
  It's like that also opens up your mind, right? So think about
• 43:35
  this. That also opens up your mind that hmm, maybe I don't
• 43:37
  need to work for a company. Maybe I can be a consultant or
• 43:42
  independent contractor and have multiple companies I work for.
• 43:46
  Since I'm already working for this company part time, right?
• 43:49
  Why not have multiple companies like this that I'm working for?
• 43:55
  Right. So it kind of opens, you know, it opens the mind up of
• 43:59
  possibilities.
• 44:02
  Devon Morris: Yeah, people and their families. I mean, I love
• 44:06
  it. I like that. It's hard to beat. So here's the deal: there,
• 44:10
  there's sometimes information that comes across the board that
• 44:13
  you just can't immediately share. And there, there's a line
• 44:17
  that exists when you are a leader sandwiched in the middle,
• 44:20
  right? Yeah,
• 44:22
  Melanie Shires: yeah.
• 44:22
  Devon Morris: Where's the line between protecting your team and
• 44:27
  keeping them in the dark?
• 44:31
  Melanie Shires: Well, yeah. I mean, there are some things that
• 44:34
  I don't look at as keeping them in the dark because I am about
• 44:37
  transparency, but there are certain things that don't need
• 44:41
  to be divulged because it's not. It's kind of a need to know
• 44:46
  basis. They don't, you know, why give information to someone that
• 44:52
  they can't really do anything about, and it's not going to
• 44:56
  bring about any kind of positivity. I guess. Is I guess
• 45:01
  the best. Let me try to think of an analogy. It's kind of like
• 45:03
  the news, right? There are certain things that we will hear
• 45:07
  about on the news, but we're not going to know everything about
• 45:10
  certain things if it deals with national security and stuff like
• 45:14
  that, right? Because we, as the public, don't need to know all
• 45:18
  of the nitty gritty. All it's going to do is cause panic and
• 45:23
  chaos unnecessarily. So I think that's where I look at when I'm
• 45:27
  when I'm thinking of okay something that I'm I'm learning
• 45:31
  because I'm in the boardroom with senior executives that
• 45:36
  we're talking about on the bigger scale or like you know
• 45:39
  the bigger picture of of strategy or whatever we're
• 45:43
  dealing with with the business, my team doesn't need to know all
• 45:47
  of that. My team just needs to know what is going to affect
• 45:49
  them directly, or what you know what they need to know so that
• 45:54
  they can do their job effectively. Right? They don't
• 45:57
  need to know every single thing. So I you know I don't really
• 46:00
  look at it as keeping somebody in the dark. I think it's more
• 46:02
  of, you know, a need to know basis, kind of thing, right?
• 46:07
  Devon Morris: I like how you distinguish that. That is really
• 46:10
  amazing. I have a word that came to my head that I just want to
• 46:15
  just state it and just allow you to give me just your straight up
• 46:21
  opinion, right? And that one is imposter syndrome.
• 46:28
  Melanie Shires: Oh, I hate that word. Okay, yes. Oh well, I hate
• 46:33
  that word because I I hear it and I'm like, okay. So what do
• 46:38
  you want me to say about this word? So when I when I hear it,
• 46:41
  what comes to mind or what I think about it, like what what,
• 46:45
  Devon Morris: and then how do you help people deal with that?
• 46:48
  Melanie Shires: Okay, so you already know how I feel about
• 46:49
  that word. Okay, how I help people deal with it again, you
• 46:56
  need to trust your inner self, right? You know, no one can be
• 47:01
  Devon better than Devon. No one can be Melanie better than
• 47:03
  Melanie. And so, if Melanie has been studying, working, doing
• 47:10
  something for a long time, I have expertise in it. So, I
• 47:15
  should not have to get validation from someone else
• 47:18
  externally. You know, for me to feel like I am an expert in
• 47:23
  whatever, and that's what I was saying about earlier. About you
• 47:26
  know, you should not have to prove to anyone that you belong
• 47:29
  in the room. You belong in the room. It's just, are you in the
• 47:33
  wrong room, right? So, so that's the bigger picture, right? It's
• 47:37
  people feel like they're in the whole imposter syndrome is
• 47:41
  they're second guessing or questioning their their
• 47:48
  expertise, right? Even when you know your value, I mean, people
• 47:51
  will say, "Well, I know my value, but I've only been doing
• 47:55
  X for so long, right? Or you know, everyone around me is more
• 47:59
  seasoned. Actually, you should take that as a compliment that
• 48:04
  you're in the room with seasoned people. That doesn't mean that
• 48:07
  you don't belong there. That just means, oh, I have so many
• 48:11
  opportunities to get better, to have mentorship, to get
• 48:16
  introduced to other people. Right? I mean, you have to look
• 48:20
  at it in that way, as opposed to "Ooh, I don't know if I really
• 48:23
  belong here, and start shrinking, right? So I don't
• 48:27
  know. I just don't like. I don't believe people are imposters. I
• 48:31
  believe that we have inner critics that we have in our
• 48:35
  head, but we also have, you know, guides in our head, right?
• 48:41
  And our guides are always talking in a whisper. You know,
• 48:46
  our inner guide talks in a whisper. Our inner critic has a
• 48:50
  bullhorn. It's like one of those cheerleaders with a bullhorn,
• 48:52
  just screaming. Right. So this is what gets heard a lot, and
• 48:58
  this is what doesn't. But when you quiet, you you you get still
• 49:03
  and you pause, you can actually hear your guide, and your guide
• 49:08
  knows, right? You belong here. You have value worth. You know
• 49:14
  how much you've contributed to this company, organization,
• 49:18
  cause, whatever it is, right? You know the education. You
• 49:22
  know, you know what you've done to get you to where you are. So
• 49:27
  you don't need someone else to tell you that you belong. I
• 49:31
  mean, that's to me. It's you should already know. And then if
• 49:36
  other people are, you know, corroborating what you already
• 49:40
  know that's great, but you should already know whether you
• 49:43
  have a bunch of people telling you the same thing or not. You
• 49:47
  should know.
• 49:48
  Devon Morris: Yeah, that is that is. You know, we I think we all
• 49:53
  hit that space where that that guide that's whispering is being
• 49:58
  out by the wind. Is just loud and telling you. Oh yeah,
• 50:02
  Melanie Shires: the inner critic, and I deal with this all
• 50:04
  the time. So I'm not here, and I don't want your listeners to
• 50:07
  think that you know I'm that I know it all or whatever. And I
• 50:11
  am still learning, and the reason why I'm able to speak to
• 50:14
  this is because I have made mistakes because I have you know
• 50:18
  not listened to my inner guide and let my inner critic guide me
• 50:24
  into you know wasted years and and you know just untruths right
• 50:30
  I mean I have done that too but it's once you are aware then
• 50:36
  when you when life be lifing and you do slip into old behaviors,
• 50:42
  patterns, thoughts. Then you can pause because now you're aware.
• 50:47
  Okay, what is my inner critic? I mean, what is my inner guide
• 50:52
  saying? You know, because the critic has been screaming. You
• 50:55
  know, and that's you know. And however people are able to hear
• 51:00
  their inner guide. Some people, it's through meditation. Some
• 51:03
  people, it's through prayer. Some people, I mean, everybody's
• 51:06
  different. But you, everybody knows exactly what I'm talking
• 51:11
  about when you are dealing with difficult situations or or or
• 51:17
  decisions you have to make, or you're in a you know you're
• 51:20
  you're in a place where you're uncertain, unsure, or as you
• 51:24
  would say, the imposter syndrome. Then that's when it's
• 51:28
  really important to lean on your inner guide, right, and not the
• 51:34
  critic.
• 51:37
  Devon Morris: So then, you know, because we all go through this,
• 51:41
  like I go through it for sure. Even when I'm training a class
• 51:45
  that I've trained a million times, sometimes I get them
• 51:48
  where you know the critic is just a little bit louder than
• 51:51
  the guide, and have to find a deal with that, right? And deal
• 51:55
  with it in the moment. I completely understand. So
• 51:58
  whoever's out there going through it, we all go through
• 52:01
  it. Going to assume if there's somebody out there that's
• 52:04
  perfect, let us know and let us figure out how you solved it
• 52:07
  permanently. We be yeah. There's no
• 52:10
  Melanie Shires: there's no such thing as perfection. That's why
• 52:12
  when you deal when when and I'm a recovering perfectionist, when
• 52:16
  you're trying to be perfect,
• 52:18
  Devon Morris: yeah,
• 52:19
  Melanie Shires: you add so much more stress, and and and it's
• 52:23
  just it's there is no such thing as perfection. You have to let
• 52:26
  that go. That doesn't mean that you don't show up your best self
• 52:30
  or that you don't try to do your best work when you are in a
• 52:34
  position. That's not what I'm saying. But there is no such
• 52:36
  thing as perfection. There's always room for improvement, and
• 52:39
  once you realize that, you can really just drop all of the you
• 52:46
  know bricks that you have because really it's okay. You
• 52:50
  know most people are their own worst critic, right? I mean they
• 52:55
  they they you know they they hold themselves back in that,
• 53:00
  especially those of us who were perfectionists, you know. I
• 53:05
  mean, that's that's that's hard because you know you you will
• 53:10
  have your boundaries, you know, evaporate. You will be you know
• 53:15
  giving giving giving and not getting replenishment back on
• 53:18
  the and where you put your energy when you are so focused,
• 53:22
  and you will let a lot of glass balls drop, because a lot of
• 53:27
  times perfectionists are so focused on making sure they
• 53:31
  catch all the balls, right? They're like, I gotta, gotta
• 53:33
  catch all of them, right? You're never going to catch them all,
• 53:36
  and so you're going to end up burning yourself out trying to
• 53:40
  do that.
• 53:41
  Devon Morris: You know what I? You know the thing is, I've
• 53:44
  never been a perfectionist, so I there's a level me that
• 53:47
  understands it because I see it. That's
• 53:49
  Melanie Shires: good. That's good.
• 53:51
  Devon Morris: Don't understand it because it's not me. But I am
• 53:57
  all about continuous improvement, and so one of the
• 54:00
  things that I did in preparation for this episode is I took the
• 54:09
  inner authority assessment. Want to make sure I talk about this
• 54:16
  because I'm always on a journey of making myself a little bit
• 54:19
  better, right? And so,
• 54:20
  Melanie Shires: yes.
• 54:21
  Devon Morris: Before I at least talk about my score, and you
• 54:25
  tell me a little bit about who I am, because I think this is the
• 54:29
  perfect place to talk about it before we start giving people
• 54:32
  tips on what to do when you are sandwiched or you know in some
• 54:36
  leadership position. Tell us a little bit about the assessment,
• 54:40
  so and then we can talk about me. Now listen, y'all. Be nice
• 54:46
  to me, okay? I'm out here taking risk. So go ahead, tell us.
• 54:52
  Melanie Shires: Well, yeah. I mean, essentially, the
• 54:53
  assessment, it's a free assessment, and it touches on. I
• 54:57
  have an I have a framework called the Inner Authority
• 55:00
  Framework, and this is what I teach in you know my workshops
• 55:03
  and in my intensives, but it talks about those four you know
• 55:11
  what I call you know domains or they could be your capacities,
• 55:14
  right? So that's decision making, energy stewardship,
• 55:18
  boundary integrity, and life coherence, so it kind of touches
• 55:22
  on that. So this assessment, you answer questions, and then based
• 55:27
  on your answers, and it's you know gives you you know a
• 55:31
  scenario and what you would do in that scenario, how you think
• 55:34
  about that scenario, and then you kind of see where your score
• 55:38
  is based on those four domains. So like where you scored in
• 55:43
  decision quality, you know, boundary integrity, energy
• 55:46
  stewardship, and life coherence, and then the total of that will
• 55:50
  give you what your inner authority, I guess, reflection
• 55:55
  or or because I don't really like saying score because again,
• 55:59
  this changes. You know, you may, you know, depending on the
• 56:03
  season of your life where you are, you know, these things may
• 56:06
  change, right? So it's more of just a snapshot or a reflection
• 56:12
  of where you are right now, and there's four different
• 56:15
  archetypes that are attached to certain score ranges. So you
• 56:22
  have your anchored wayfinder, your emerging wayfinder. Which a
• 56:26
  wayfinder is someone who's a navigator. That's what wayfinder
• 56:30
  means. So an anchored wayfinder, an emerging wayfinder, an
• 56:36
  externally oriented leader, and then an overextended self
• 56:42
  leader. So those are the four, and it kind of just all four of
• 56:46
  them focus on a particular area. So what's great about the
• 56:52
  assessment is then you have a kind of your base point of all
• 56:58
  right. I can see you know where I may have opportunity to
• 57:03
  improve, and where I'm really solid within my inner authority,
• 57:08
  right? Because we all can improve in some way, and like I
• 57:14
  said, it also is interesting because where you are today may
• 57:18
  be different five years from now, or even just five months
• 57:21
  from now, right? Depending on what's going on in your life, or
• 57:26
  you know what season you are in a particular time of your life,
• 57:30
  right? So that's essentially what the assessment is. But
• 57:35
  Devon Morris: the coach is going to coach me now. So here's the
• 57:37
  deal: I score a 94% overall. That's my snapshot. Decision
• 57:44
  quality, life coherence was 100%. My boundary integrity was 92%
• 57:50
  and my lowest score was energy stewardship at 83. So then, what
• 57:57
  would you say to me about those lower ones that I have, and what
• 58:01
  I can do to make things a little bit better in terms of my inner
• 58:05
  authority.
• 58:06
  Melanie Shires: Well, yeah. So if your lowest one, I mean,
• 58:08
  obviously had high scores across them all, so you have a pretty
• 58:11
  strong inner authority, which is great, right? So you trust
• 58:15
  yourself, and you you listen more internally than the
• 58:24
  external, you know, noise that's going around you. So that's
• 58:28
  actually great. If your lowest score was the energy
• 58:32
  stewardship, then I would just say focus on, you know, who and
• 58:36
  what you're spending your energy on. Are there places where your
• 58:40
  energy is being leaked, meaning that you know, are there people
• 58:45
  in your life, whether they are people you work with or personal
• 58:49
  friends, whatever, where they drain you more than you're
• 58:53
  getting filled back up. So that's where, or are there you
• 58:56
  know again places? So is it the workplace or is it you know
• 59:02
  whether you're in school or you know community type things like
• 59:06
  church, whatever, where you're giving energy or energy is being
• 59:10
  leaked, where it's not being replenished. I always tell
• 59:13
  people we're like batteries, like really. So you know, when
• 59:17
  you're drained, you need to replenish your battery before
• 59:22
  you get drained again, right? So if there's certain people that
• 59:25
  you're around and they drain you, and maybe they don't drain
• 59:28
  you in a negative way, it could be a very positive way. If you
• 59:31
  are a very introverted person and you're with someone who's
• 59:34
  extremely extroverted, you can enjoy thoroughly their company,
• 59:39
  but after you're with them. You're drained. They've drained
• 59:42
  your battery, right? So you need to maybe have some time to
• 59:46
  yourself before you get, you know, before you see another
• 59:50
  extroverted person. So if you're someone who's introverted and
• 59:52
  introverts, understand this. You go out and you socialize and you
• 59:56
  enjoy yourself, but then you're like, okay, I can't, you know.
• 1:00:00
  Go out and socialize in the morning, and then at night. Like
• 1:00:03
  I need to have some some me time, right? So, it's more about
• 1:00:08
  the people and places that are draining energy, and they could
• 1:00:11
  be draining it in a positive way. I'm not saying it's
• 1:00:14
  negative, but how are you replenishing that, right? Are
• 1:00:18
  you whatever that is? If you in whatever you enjoy doing, so
• 1:00:22
  hobbies and things like that help replenish sometimes because
• 1:00:25
  then you can you know express yourself in a joyful way, right?
• 1:00:30
  Or some people it's taking naps. Some people it's you know
• 1:00:33
  watching the ball game and just not having to make decisions at
• 1:00:37
  all, right? Just enjoying you know just drinking a beer and
• 1:00:41
  watching your your your sport team, you know how whatever that
• 1:00:46
  is, you just need to make sure that you're replenishing the
• 1:00:49
  energy that's being taken.
• 1:00:53
  Devon Morris: So and y'all, I was gonna
• 1:00:54
  Devon Morris: say,
• 1:00:55
  Devon Morris: I am a introvert with all extroverted domains.
• 1:00:59
  Okay, all extrovert.
• 1:01:01
  Melanie Shires: So there we go.
• 1:01:03
  Devon Morris: So it's one of those things where I've done a
• 1:01:04
  lot of assessments on myself, and I can guarantee you what
• 1:01:07
  Melanie said earlier is extremely true. I I took this I
• 1:01:12
  took this assessment in the morning before I really started
• 1:01:16
  my day on a day that was super busy for me. I guarantee you
• 1:01:21
  that my assessment would be complete would have been
• 1:01:22
  completely different if I'd done it toward the end of the day
• 1:01:26
  because I would mind gone and it's something I know I gotta
• 1:01:28
  manage something I deal with on a regular basis but here's a
• 1:01:32
  question right what and this is for everybody in audience right
• 1:01:40
  where does inner authority go wrong?
• 1:01:49
  Melanie Shires: I don't think it goes wrong, but I mean, what do
• 1:01:52
  you mean? Can you give me more clarity? Because I do feel like
• 1:01:57
  you, if you, here's my thing. I'm not saying that inner authority
• 1:02:01
  means I know all the answers and no one else can give me, you
• 1:02:06
  know, any kind of guidance. That's not what inner authority
• 1:02:08
  is. Inner authority means you trust yourself to know what's
• 1:02:14
  best for yourself, right? That's that's really what it is. I'm
• 1:02:18
  not saying that in order to make great decisions, you don't seek
• 1:02:24
  the counsel or the the the guidance of people that you
• 1:02:31
  trust or experts. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying
• 1:02:33
  is that if every single time you have a decision to make, you
• 1:02:37
  don't trust yourself to just make that decision without
• 1:02:40
  getting reinforcement or you know getting some type of
• 1:02:44
  confirmation from multiple people every single time you
• 1:02:48
  have to make a decision, then that means you're not trusting
• 1:02:51
  yourself. You have to have somebody always telling you no,
• 1:02:55
  that's the right decision for you. Well, how can Melanie
• 1:02:58
  always be telling Devon what's the right decision for Devon? I
• 1:03:02
  can't be Devon. Only Devon can be Devon. Devon is the only
• 1:03:05
  person who can be Devon the best, right? Now you can say,
• 1:03:09
  Melanie, hey, I, you know, I want your opinion on something,
• 1:03:14
  or I want your guidance on something because I trust you as
• 1:03:16
  my friend or as an expert or whatever. But I, but still,
• 1:03:19
  Devon knows what's best for Devon, so he will take what he
• 1:03:24
  needs to from Melanie, but he doesn't need Melanie to tell him
• 1:03:29
  exactly what to do. Does that make sense? Like when you're
• 1:03:31
  going and you're getting getting you know seeking advice or
• 1:03:38
  assistance from experts, that doesn't mean that they're
• 1:03:41
  telling you need to do X. They're telling you from my
• 1:03:45
  expertise, this is whatever, right? I mean, I look at it like
• 1:03:49
  AI, right? So AI should not replace you, right? You go to AI
• 1:03:55
  for as a tool, right? The same way that you would go and seek
• 1:04:02
  someone's counsel, right? It's like, okay, I, you know, I have
• 1:04:06
  this big decision. You know, I know that you've gone through
• 1:04:10
  this before me. So from your experience, what what would you
• 1:04:14
  tell me? And you can tell me from your experience, but it's
• 1:04:17
  still from your experience. And then I can take what you tell
• 1:04:20
  me, and then I can still do the assessment of whether now I will
• 1:04:25
  take that or not, right when I make my decision. Does that make
• 1:04:29
  sense? As opposed to having to go to people in order to make
• 1:04:34
  the decision. So I think that's the difference. So inner
• 1:04:37
  authority isn't saying that you're the end all, the be all,
• 1:04:40
  and you're all knowing. You know, walking encyclopedia. It
• 1:04:45
  is the closest to that you are is for yourself, but that
• 1:04:50
  doesn't mean that you, you know, have all the answers. It means
• 1:04:56
  that you're the best at being yourself than anyone else, and
• 1:05:03
  so yes, you go and you get guidance from people who are
• 1:05:07
  experts who've been down the road that you're trying to go
• 1:05:10
  from, you know, friends and family who you trust. But at the
• 1:05:14
  end of the day, no one can be you better than you. So you need
• 1:05:20
  to really trust your inner knowing,
• 1:05:23
  Devon Morris: yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:23
  Melanie Shires: And people call it different things. I call it
• 1:05:26
  inner because it's authority. It's your inner authority. Some
• 1:05:28
  people call it your, you know, I don't know, your spirit, your,
• 1:05:35
  you know, life, your soul, whatever, whatever people call
• 1:05:38
  it. But to me, it's an authority. It is your your inner
• 1:05:42
  guide, your inner authority, because you have the authority.
• 1:05:45
  It is you. Yeah, you are the best at being you.
• 1:05:49
  Devon Morris: Authority is a word that comes with so many
• 1:05:52
  other things associated with it. So you really just clarify what
• 1:05:56
  you meant by authority, and that's what I really wanted you
• 1:05:59
  to just give the audience. So I have one final question, right?
• 1:06:05
  Melanie Shires: Okay. Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  Devon Morris: Love for you to think about it from that
• 1:06:10
  sandwich leader perspective because, you know, again, most
• 1:06:14
  people got a boss if they're a leader equal at the same time,
• 1:06:19
  regardless. Oh,
• 1:06:19
  Melanie Shires: absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:22
  Devon Morris: So, what would you tell a leader whose team is
• 1:06:26
  behind right now and they know it?
• 1:06:32
  Melanie Shires: Okay, can you clarify when you say behind?
• 1:06:34
  That means they're not hitting goals that they need to hit.
• 1:06:37
  They are in an environment that I mean, can you give me more
• 1:06:42
  clarity?
• 1:06:42
  Devon Morris: Behind in terms of the goals that they're that
• 1:06:45
  they're not hitting, the marks they're supposed to make.
• 1:06:48
  They're just behind right now in terms of whatever that that
• 1:06:53
  point is. That management, the team wanted them to be be at
• 1:06:57
  whatever that point is at. They're behind, and you as the
• 1:07:00
  leader, know that this particular team is behind. How
• 1:07:04
  do you deal with leader?
• 1:07:07
  Melanie Shires: Well, again, it gets back to what I said before.
• 1:07:10
  It's being open, curious, and active listening. There is a
• 1:07:14
  reason why the team's behind. Whatever the the goal or the
• 1:07:21
  I'll just say goal. So whatever the goal is for that team, if
• 1:07:25
  we're not, if we're if we're if we're not tracking to hit it,
• 1:07:30
  let's just put it that way. If we're not tracking to hit it,
• 1:07:33
  then we constantly need to be assessing what we could be doing
• 1:07:38
  better, and it needs to be done as a team, and it really needs
• 1:07:41
  to be the leader's responsibility to again listen,
• 1:07:47
  be open and curious, because everyone on the team has a part
• 1:07:53
  to play, and so everyone also has wants to be heard and wants
• 1:08:00
  to, you know what I'm saying to to have their voice heard and
• 1:08:04
  their contribution to the whole recognized. So really, in that
• 1:08:11
  case, it's about us coming together and listening and being
• 1:08:17
  open to each other on what are the things that we could be
• 1:08:22
  doing better as a unit? Are there individuals within that
• 1:08:26
  unit that are not pulling their weight? I mean, that's that's a
• 1:08:30
  that's more of a let's be transparent and and honest and
• 1:08:35
  have honest conversation and and and strategy sessions on how
• 1:08:40
  since we're not tracking, where are we lagging, and how can we,
• 1:08:44
  as a team, help each other so that we can pull each other up,
• 1:08:48
  so that we can track, so that we can change it, so that we can
• 1:08:51
  course correct, right? So,
• 1:08:54
  Devon Morris: I think I think you said it perfectly, and I
• 1:08:57
  think it it just is reiterated throughout the entire show, that
• 1:09:02
  curiosity, that openness, and that active listening, extremely
• 1:09:07
  open, right? And so, I'll ask now: Is where should people find
• 1:09:15
  you, and tell us what's coming up for you?
• 1:09:19
  Melanie Shires: Yeah, so people can find me. I'm on LinkedIn.
• 1:09:22
  Everybody can find me. It's Melanie, Positively Melanie. If
• 1:09:25
  you just put in Positively Melanie, I'll pop up. I'm on
• 1:09:28
  LinkedIn. That's where I live, really. You can find me. My
• 1:09:33
  website is positivelymelanie.com. If and on
• 1:09:39
  LinkedIn and on my website, there is a link to my free
• 1:09:43
  assessment. So you know what if you're curious about where you
• 1:09:48
  you know where you are within your own inner authority, and
• 1:09:52
  like I said, it's just a snapshot. Then take the
• 1:09:55
  assessment. I do every month a Inner Authority Reset, where you
• 1:10:04
  take the assessment and then you get kind of an introductory into
• 1:10:09
  my framework. So it's really nice. You'll end up with a
• 1:10:12
  roadmap of where to go next. And again, it's on my website, so
• 1:10:17
  you can sign up for that there. Yeah, so LinkedIn is really the
• 1:10:24
  best place for me. So I
• 1:10:27
  Devon Morris: love it. I love. I mean,
• 1:10:28
  Melanie Shires: I'm on the I'm on the other platforms too, but
• 1:10:30
  really LinkedIn is where I spend most of my time.
• 1:10:33
  Devon Morris: And here's and here's what I do, right? I'll
• 1:10:36
  I'll take it and I'll take the link to your website so they can
• 1:10:39
  get the assessment and make sure that it's in the show notes. So and
• 1:10:43
  then they can go description, and they can grab it from there.
• 1:10:47
  So it makes it a little bit easier. So wherever you're
• 1:10:50
  listening at, you can capture it in the description or in the
• 1:10:54
  show notes. You'll see it right there. So I am going to say to
• 1:10:58
  you, Melanie, this has been an amazing conversation, I really
• 1:11:03
  truly know is going to be helpful for people. I
• 1:11:07
  Melanie Shires: thank you, thank you,
• 1:11:09
  Devon Morris: and teams alike, especially those leaders that
• 1:11:11
  are sandwiched in the middle, because that is really tough
• 1:11:15
  place to be. So, from audience to you, I'm gonna say thank you,
• 1:11:20
  and let's just say bye to them. So we'll see y'all next time.
• 1:11:24
  Yes, bye. Hack on because there's more things to talk
• 1:11:27
  about.
• 1:11:28
  Melanie Shires: Yes, yes, yes. And always remember, right?
• 1:11:30
  Those three things, right? So
• 1:11:33
  Devon Morris: if you and if you don't, you already heard them.
• 1:11:37
  So we're not going to repeat them right now.
• 1:11:42
  Melanie Shires: Yeah. Active listening, curiosity, and
• 1:11:45
  openness. Right,
• 1:11:47
  Devon Morris: she gave it to y'all. She's nice. That's the
• 1:11:49
  reason why she got all those LinkedIn recommendations. That's
• 1:11:51
  the reason why. Thank you, Melanie, so much, and I will
• 1:11:56
  catch you. Thank you, everybody.
• 1:11:57
  Melanie Shires: Yes, thank you, Devon.
• 1:11:59
  Devon Morris: Thank you for joining us, where every Tuesday
• 1:12:03
  and Thursday we work toward bridging the gap for teams that
• 1:12:08
  are behind.