Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Faith, Hope, and Recovery: The Shafer Suggs Story | Episode 6

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Faith, Hope, and Recovery: The Shafer Suggs Story | Episode 6 · 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before.

• Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): From the outside, can look like someone has everything. Opportunity, success, a path that most people would do anything to have. But what people don't see is what happens when life hits you with something you didn't expect. Loss, pressure, responsibility, and the weight of trying to hold everything together. What happens when you're trying to raise your kids while you're still trying to hold yourself together? Welcome back to Rebuild and Fulfill, where we have real conversations about burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. Today we're sitting down with former pro football player Schaefer Suggs to talk about a journey that goes far beyond the game. From losing his wife while his kids were still young, to raising them on his own, to navigating personal struggles, and ultimately rebuilding his life through faith and purpose. This is a conversation about fatherhood, resilience, identity, and what it takes to keep going when everything feels like it's falling apart. Schaefer, really appreciate you being here with us. Shafer Suggs: it's an honor. ⁓ was looking forward to all week long. So this is this is great. I love being able to share my story and ⁓ hope that it will resonate with some of your audience. And it's an honor to be able to give back. ⁓ Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): That's fantastic. Thank you so much for being here. So, mean, we might as well kind of start back at the beginning. you know, early on, what did football represent to you growing up? Let's start with the football. Shafer Suggs: Well, it sports. You I remember how the seasons changed. Each season represented a different sport for me. You know, football, I mean, in the fall was football, basketball. I actually was a D1 basketball player at Ball State as well. I played two sports and I played track and, you know, it was one of the things that I loved. I I mean... I used to get a spanking for being outside so long I would get nosebleeds in the summertime because I would not come in the house. But it became my love, it became my identity at some point in time. And when I realized I got an opportunity to speak at the... ⁓ the MyCap graduation and what did I share it was what I didn't realize was it was the one thing that I was escaping from because I was experiencing some trauma at home as well. So being outside on the court in the football field was my escape and it was my coping ⁓ mechanism. And You know as I got a little bit older and I remember I sustained two really bad knee injuries. I was in a wheelchair. I remember that the one thing that brought me joy, brought me escape, seemed to be over. And I remember quitting the football team. I got my knees rehabilitated and I went off the football team my sophomore year and I was small. I was about 110 pounds dripping wet. But I never, my niece never got back. We didn't have the rehabilitation that we have ⁓ then that we had ⁓ today. And I quit the football team. And I remember the conversation that my mom had with me. I can't share those exact words, but she walked me back to practice. But you know what she said? know, Shaeve, whatever you do in life, don't quit. You know, whatever you do in life, don't quit. then I didn't quit and I played and I played and all of a sudden I'm getting a full scholarship to go to Ball State to play football and basketball. But it was my life, it was my identity. And I think what happened with me when I got drafted by the New York Jets, I'm in New York for five or six years, I mean cannot even begin to explain that world, you know? But I felt alone. You I felt like ⁓ I was around a lot of people that loved me because of what I did and who I was. And I got hurt again. And I began to ⁓ get really depressed because it reminds me when I was younger, when I hurt my knees, that the one thing that I was holding onto, my identity, was sports. was almost over and guess what was still there? The trauma was still there. It was still there and I did a geographical escape from New York ⁓ to Chicago and guess what followed me? Right? Now, I self-medicated, we'll probably talk about that. mean, was, I I was a Studio 54 guy, you know? you know, hanging out, know, the things that were entertaining became my medication. You know, it didn't start out that way, but as my career began to diminish, I began to get depressed, I began to remember, you you say that trauma, some people live as trauma, as they're still with you. And I realized it was still there. And I came to Chicago and this is where I got clean and sober. I got a couple of DUIs within two weeks. It was ironic that the court that I was at, that I was giving my graduation speech last week, 38 years ago, I was there. And it was powerful for me because here I am, I was 38 years ago waiting for the consequences of what I did. I didn't get consequences in New York. I got pulled over because I was shaved for soaks. I got let go. But with the grace of God, I had consequences. But it was the beginning of one of the most beautiful things that ever happened to me, and that was long-term recovery. And I was able to share my story with these 12 graduates and let them know that I was sitting where you were 38 years ago. So I've been very, very blessed. my journey has been one of I've learned how to not just survive in recovery, but ⁓ Thrive in recovery and I know I kind of went on but have you got other questions for me? But I can continue to share my story, but it's been a wonderful thing It's been a wonderful thing and I continue to find joy and purpose in my life ⁓ And it's just I live for each day now Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): I see how you and Mark were such fast friends because he takes that mission on himself just like you do where it's, you know, it cost him a lot but then it gave him a lot and it is part of his purpose, his drive, his mission now and I can see that in you. So I definitely can see where you guys are kindred spirits that way. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Thank Yeah. So for, for the audience, ⁓ Kelsey, so Shaffer and I met each other at an event that was during the holiday season put on through the national Alliance of mental illness, the local chapter in Dewbridge County. And they had a mental health and substance use forum that was done in person and done virtually. And I had a chance to share my story and Shaffer had a chance to share his story. And we started talking, we talked a little bit before, we talked more after and there certainly was a bond there for sure. But Schaefer, for the sake of the audience, and I know what it is, but why don't you explain to the audience what the MyCAP program is? I think it's an awesome program locally in DuPage County. Shafer Suggs: It is an awesome program. ⁓ Judge Paul Marchese reached out to me through NAMI and asked me if I would speak. ⁓ God put people in your lives for a reason. Ironically, a really good friend of mine in recovery was also working with ⁓ Judge Marchese back in the day. And so we had that connection. But my cap is mental illness court alternative program. And these are people that have been incarcerated. and now are given a second chance to reduce their sentence or get it sponged. every month they have graduates and they have different speakers and they asked me to speak. And again, I can tell you it was one of the most memorable moments, opportunities for me to speak because my life went full circle. I was there, that was me. You know, and to see the joy in their faces when they got up and got their coin and got their certificate. You know, when I shared with them, said, so, you know, like when I scored my touchdown on Monday night football, I kept the football. I didn't spike it. I didn't throw it in the stands. You know, don't do this with your certificate. Give it back. Give it back to someone who's trying to score in life. Pay it forward. Yes. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): you Yeah. And Kelsey, when they try to reach out to me two Saturdays a month and they can't get a hold of me in the morning because I'm at the health department helping facilitate a support group, that's the MyCAP support group. So those individuals are attending those classes or those support groups to attain their certification, if you will, through the courts so they can graduate in the program that Schaeffer spoke at. So it's a beautiful program. Shafer Suggs: It's wonderful. then, know, ⁓ Judge Barkeci is leaving. He's graduating ⁓ out and they're bringing in another judge. But it was his baby. was, you know, one of the top MyCAP programs in the state. the courtroom was packed. You had support people. You had therapists. You had ⁓ officers. You had probation officers. But you also had family members, too, which was wonderful. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, when Mark first told me about that program, I mean, he can explain to you another time, I was just like, wow, that is such an amazing thing. Because I just feel like there isn't a whole lot of motivation or incentive when you're coming out of a situation like that to try and put your life back together. Because it's almost like you've got those demons like chasing after you because it just, you feel like eventually it's going to catch up to you. It's going to prevent you from getting a good job. It's going to prevent you from getting opportunities. Shafer Suggs: you Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): And Mark told me that the curriculum is pretty stringent, that they really have to show that they want it and earn it. And therefore, then their record would be expunged. It's not an easy thing to go through, but it makes it so that they do have that motivation and incentive to live a better way. And I love that. Shafer Suggs: Right, right. I think the recidivism rate is like 84%, which is really great, you know? And I told him, you know, that, and I said, the only time I want to see you back here is you doing what I'm and sharing your journey. So it was a wonderful experience. And Mark, thank you for your work as well. It's a great, great program. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, and. I used to take it one step further, Kelsey, you know, like Schaefer talked about how it was a full circle moment. That's like me speaking at the hospitals, you know, and the psychiatric care units. And I tell people all the time, I literally sat in those chairs multiple times coming off, you know, major overdoses. So I know what it's like. know what it's, I know what you're feeling and I know you feel the Schaefer, but when you're speaking to these individuals and you can see their body mannerisms change and the light just flicker in their eyes. you know that it's resonating with them and you're just trying to give some hope and inspiration to try to drive some change and know that recovery, whether it's mental health recovery or dual diagnosis mental health, is some type of form of addiction recovery as possible. And he's seen so many miracles, I've seen so many miracles, and that's the reason why we do the work that we do, you know, with that organization. Shafer Suggs: Right, right, right, this is wonderful. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. So I guess kind of, and I know we kind of got off track a little bit there, but going back to, guess, the days of football, you know, studio 54 days. Well, I know this. I remember, I remember you told me your rookie year was what? Joe Namath's final season? Shafer Suggs: I knew you were gonna go back there. With Joe Namath, with Broadway Joe, yes. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Exactly. So, and you played from what's, I know it was what's 75 to 87 or something? Yeah. Shafer Suggs: 76 to 81, yeah. I spent some time up in Canada and then with the USF. But yeah, I was drafted by the Jets in the second round. It was funny because I didn't get the call because I was sitting in my dorm at Ball State University. I knew I was going to get drafted. I shared the story with you, right? And at that time, Kelsey, the coach for the New York Jets was Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): That's right. That's right. That's right. Shafer Suggs: Low holds. Yes, he was the coach for the New York Jets. It was his first and last job in the NFL. But so apparently they were trying to call me. I knew that I would get drafted in the first or second round. you know, I was the hoopla and all the stuff was very different. You had to sit and wait with ABC, and NBC. There was no going in with your entourage with the gold chains. was none of that. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): haha Shafer Suggs: I'm sitting in my dorm at Ball State looking at my green phone waiting for it to ring and it didn't ring 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock. I get a pounding on my door. It's my coach David Clayne. He said, where have you been? The Jets have been trying to contact you since 10 a.m. They drafted you in the second round. I said, coach, I've been sitting right here next to my phone and I pick up the phone, Kelsey, and the phone was dead. I had actually moved the bed a little bit and the phone jack was out of the way. I don't know if you remember those phones, But I didn't want to touch the phone, you know. I just remember looking at it. I remember I fell asleep. I was so depressed. And Lujos gets on the phone. said, man, thought you, I didn't think you wanted to play for the Jets. We couldn't contact you. Because he was in his voice, whole hype and, know, yeah. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): was actually picturing what you said in my head as you were saying that. That was almost a slight impersonation that you were starting to go into because I can imagine it. Shafer Suggs: Yes, yes. That was it, man. Yeah, but that was that was my draft day experience, which is always this time of the year, right around my birthday. The draft. I was telling this story. I mean, there's an article about it, about my almost missing that. Well, I did miss the phone call, but it was kind of neat. But yeah, those days were. ⁓ It's so hard when people ask me how it was. You know, the one thing I know, and I'm glad that there was no social media back in those days because, you know, the stuff that you're seeing today happened then. you can lose your mind, you can lose your identity. It's a very superficial world. ⁓ And also drugs. I know. I had access to the Percodonts, Percocets, I had access to all that stuff. But it was a bowl right there. So it wasn't hard to self-medicate, especially it was encouraged because they had that old saying, you don't make the club in the tub, you had to play. Or the next man up, right? So. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: I think a combination of that and then as I got further into my depression in terms of, you know, I was hurt. I remember being in my ⁓ condo in Westbury, New York and there was a point in my life, right, I can remember where I felt, this is not right, Schaefer. I mean, I was getting cocaine for free, right? I I could just feel my life just kind of getting out of control, right? And I remember... that moment I said, this is, there's something wrong, right? What was hard for about me was I was by myself. So I didn't have anybody in my ear and I didn't have a level of accountability that I needed. And with the grace of God, when I came to Chicago, I was blessed with accountability. I was blessed with the consequences because I could easily not be here on this call right now. I'm very, very lucky to be here. So it was different world. Now, the other piece of it, love, as I got further and further into my recovery, I began to really rejoice the accomplishment. But I also understand that it wasn't what defines me, right? Because I was able to find out who Schaefer Sucks was inside the football helmet. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: I was able to redefine my life. I began to be mature enough and with the blessing of recovery, I was able to love Shaffer Suggs again. I was able to love enough where I was able to have a relationship and I met my wife in 1995 at a club called the Pacific Club. I don't know if remember that club. It was a Walter Payton club in Lombard. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Right, it was right on the outskirts of Yorktown Mall. Yup. Shafer Suggs: Yes, yes, so I'm in there I have a tie on and on the other side of the bar and I saw these two beautiful girls waving at me pointing at me. I'm saying man I still got it, yeah okay. So I walk around the bar and I turn around and my wife's my future wife turned around she's all she saw was my tie. She's ⁓ I thought you were Walter Payton. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yep. haha Shafer Suggs: I don't look like Walter Payton, ironically that was the, you know, my number was 23. We met on November 23rd that night and then we ended up getting married on September 23rd and my daughter Faith was born on February 3rd. So Tuesday was always, you know, so I was blessed with her and... Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Okay. Shafer Suggs: You mentioned earlier she passed away. Well, when she was pregnant, six months pregnant with my daughter, and at the time ⁓ she was diagnosed with melanoma. had stage four melanoma. And she went, they go to remove it, and she went into contractions. And we thought we were gonna lose both of them. With the grace of God, we got through the surgery. And I remember her and I were at the Arboretum in Lyle. And we sit under that tree and we said there was only one name for this little girl. And we named her Faith. So that's her name, Faith Brienne Suggs, right? And we had our son Devon in 2001. Life was going. mean, I rebuilt my life. I'm working. She's doing well. We're just... Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Ugh. Shafer Suggs: know, my daughter started getting into sports. She started getting college recruiting letters. over the summer of her eighth grade year, Sue started having back issues. We couldn't figure out what it was. We ended up going to the emergency room. They did a CT scan, and she had a burst fracture on her T3 vertebrae. And that was on October 8th. and she died on October 9th. That was two months later she died. I mean, so this is what I would say. Thank God for recovery. Thank God that I had those tools. Thank God I had that fellowship. Thank God I had my spiritual, my faith. Because I was 58 and she was 43. And God, I thought I was very smart and young, I could take care of my old butt, right? You know, so, and that's what she was sitting around her bed and she just, she was so wonderful. ⁓ my life, just the paradise shift, was like, my goodness. And... Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): No. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: I share this with you when my daughter was married in her graduation, her wedding speech, I often say that my two kids were the bookends that kept me standing. They were wonderful, because it could have went either way. But we got really busy. Thank God for sports. We got really busy. I stopped working. took my pension early and I just got pulled my sleeves up and it's involved in their lives. And I don't know how blessed I am, you know, I have a daughter who got a full ride to do, because her son got a full ride to Yale. Because I can tell you when that happened, that was one of first things I thought about. How am I gonna do this, right? And they're just wonderful. I've been so blessed and I always so say, I know. Mark, you're going through some things, but your father, fatherhood is greatest gift in the world. And they come around. And this last three years for me, my son and I, we struggled a little bit because he's doing the water painting sniff arm on me right now. He was going through some anxiety issues. I think I shared this when we were together. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Hahaha Shafer Suggs: ⁓ and got what got depression, anxiety, and I felt helpless. Here I am with all these tools, right? And what I realized that I can't pour. 72 years of my wisdom into this little bitty limbo, which is what he is, and that he'll finally get it. So I'm blessed that he's coming around, you know, man, know, mental illness, there's no discrimination, right? It hits you, man, it just, you know, it hits you. But that journey, fatherhood, when my daughter, you get a little emotional. When my daughter shared with me that I get a chance to spend three hours with my granddaughter by myself. That was like scoring a touchdown on Monday Night Football for me, You know, here I am, you know? Because I remember holding that little girl in my arms, her looking at me, you know, because she was a miracle. And my... Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: Granddaughter is Sky and her middle name is my wife Susan, Sky Susan. So her and I are gonna hang out on Sunday for three hours. And I owe all this to my recovery program. All the tools that I've been able to acquire over the years and just wanna be able to spend the rest of my life. you know, continue to have purpose and continue to give it back. Continue to give it back and continue to be an ambassador for recovery because I've been so damn blessed in my life and you know, it's not over. mean, I can continue to thrive on, you know, we can get complacent, right Mark? You know, so I always say I get a daily reprieve based on my spiritual condition each day. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. I Shafer Suggs: So sometimes I jump out that door without taking my quiet time. I got this guy, let me drive today, right? I go on about two or three days and all of a sudden, I start having an emotional hangover, right? I started getting short with people. My anxiety gets, they bother me, they wouldn't normally bother me. Let me pick up this toolbox and then you open it up and get back on track. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. No. Shafer Suggs: And that's the thing that we have to understand that it's a journey and you're to fall, you're going to fail. But like I always say, if you fall, fall forward so you see where you're going. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. No, you're 100 % correct. Kelsey's heard me say it 100 times, proactive versus reactive and complacency kills. How many times have you heard me say that, Kelsey? Shafer Suggs: I love that, yes. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Probably a half dozen a week. Shafer Suggs: Hahaha! Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Well, seriously, I mean, I, I, I, and when I work at the behavioral health place during, during the day, I say the same thing over and over and over again. I've got a question for you. ⁓ when you were dealing with your depression, you were dealing with your addictions. Do you feel that you had a spiritual melody at that particular time? Shafer Suggs: That's awesome. Sure. I said I was always, I was a Baptist, grew up Baptist. I think I can give you this. I always thought I had a relationship with God. And I think what helped me early on in recovery was when I finally submitted, right? Because my bottom, you gotta understand, I was so able to mask my pain, because I still look good on the outside, right? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Okay. Sure. Shafer Suggs: I got this bag here, I you can get it. I did this in a recovery, just after I had it. I have this bag here that I did a recovery. And they asked me on the outside of the bag, put and paste pictures of what you think people think about you. The GQ, the football, the Mercedes-Benz on here. But on the inside of this bag, Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): you Shafer Suggs: how you really feel about yourself on the inside. Right? I'll pull out some stuff, but there's a picture in here with a man with no face. You know? And that was me. So I still have this bag. This bag is 38 years old. And, and, you know, for me, you know, just... Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): You are now in. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Okay. Yeah. Shafer Suggs: trying to find that balance, I would have done it without, I say that second step is came to believe the power greater than yourself can restore your sanity. They have a problem with that. admit to my life, the care of God, you understand him, right? What I realized was I was drowning, right? But his hand was always stuck out, always, all I had do was grab it. And once I submitted, once I stopped, Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: fighting, he pulled me to shore and I never look back. I never look back. Like I said, I get a daily reprieve based on my spiritual condition each day. Now not trying to evangelize anybody here, but for me, for me, man, you know, that's my savior right there. And so that's to me, I think my challenge as, you know, a certified recovery support specialist. You know, what I see, what I'm learning is, and I'll let you ask another question, but I understand we gotta come where they're at, right? Different, the recovery Dharma, I didn't know anything about recovery Dharma. I didn't know anything about smart recovery. But recovery is recovery, right? So, I'm good, right? I know people are atheists and agnostic. Hey, but whatever works for you. But for me, my relationship with my higher power, with God, Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Yeah. Shafer Suggs: is what saved my life, what continues to save my life. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. You're talking. Sorry. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): So I have a quick one. ⁓ That's okay. No, ⁓ just curious because I don't know your story quite so well. How long were you in recovery before your wife got suddenly very sick and you lost her at that point? Shafer Suggs: So my recovery is November 9th, 1997. She died in 2011. So 22, 23 years. Yep. Yep. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Go ahead, Mark. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): No, you look back at those old pictures, because you talked about that picture, know, the man with no face or what have you, it's been all over the news. And I shared a picture of this with Kelsey, know, Tiger Woods has been in the news, obviously, with what happened. Okay. And there's a picture of him in the back of the, I think he's leaving jail. Okay. and he just looks lost and if you look at those eyes, at least I feel it because I lived that life, you could see the pain and they almost look like they don't have a soul. And as soon as I saw that picture, it brought me back to I remember there was a picture taken of me literally about 12 hours before a near fatal car crash that I was involved in. And I compared those two pictures and I sent them to Kelsey. And literally it is eerie, okay, how those eyes tell the actual story. So when you go back and look at those pictures of you, even though you're an NFL player and you have all the lights and you're playing Monday Night Football and that, Do you see a lost soul inside there because you're dealing with all that underlying mental health and the addictive issues? Can you relate to that or no? Shafer Suggs: Oh yeah, could, that's, yeah, that's, I was a lost soul. I mean, that's, that was my darkness. That was the darkness right there that I was, even though, you know, I have these helmets and I have all these jerseys and I have all these memories, at that time, I remember being in my condo on Long Island, lost, lonely, afraid. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: Right? I mean, I'm what, two years from scoring a touchdown on Monday Night Football? You know, I'm thinking about, you I don't want to live anymore. Right? I mean, I just, I just, you know, that trauma. And I'll talk about that a little bit, but you know, my dad beat me. ⁓ my dad, what I found out was the hero. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Okay. Shafer Suggs: that I used to watch play was the hometown hero. He went on to play for the Cleveland Browns and the Chicago Bears and the New York Giants. name was Erich Barnes. He was the hero. And early on, would watch him play on TV. And my mom said, you know, he's my friend growing up. But don't tell your dad that you were watching him. There's a chapter in the book that I'm writing called The Silent Noise. Ebridge Barms was my dad. And I found this out when I was 22 years old. And everybody knew the story but me. So my dad beat me, he beat my mom. That's the reason that I ran outside. That's the reason I didn't want to come inside. Okay. So when I stopped playing football at a later age in the NFL, guess what was still there? The trauma was still there. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Nope. Nope. Shafer Suggs: You know, and man, just got it on that table. You know, you just get it on the table, you acknowledge it, you forgive it. My poor mom, I remember she asking Erich to, because he was an agent at that time, living in New York. She called him, said, you know, Schaefer is getting drafted because they must have stayed in contact. Could you help him out? And so I remember going to the East, Senior Bowl. And I looked at him, I go, that's me. You get a chance, Google him, look at this picture, and you will freak out. Now, looking at me. But so I didn't, I would hear these things on the playground. But I asked my mom, she said, no, no, no, that's not true. But then over time, I began to emulate and duplicate all of his accomplishments. Right? But. ⁓ Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Mm-hmm. Shafer Suggs: I don't want to throw anybody on the bus, but what happened was he was there. He told me, I know that you're going to probably sign your contract today, but do me a favor. Don't sign anything without me. You looking at it. So I go into the New York jet. I couldn't wait to sign my contract. I had I had a 60 76 grand free when honeycomb wheels waiting for me at home, right? For seven. I think it was as $6,400, right? I could wait. get my signing bonus, so I get my car, right? So, but I get the contract and I look at it and it's okay, I'm, right, I'll think about it. So what do you gotta think about? I said, well, I have to think about it. So we have another practice and after that practice, the head coach at that time calls me in and he says to me, I hear you don't wanna play for the Jets. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: I said, I don't believe it. Well, know, jets don't have any more money. So I kind of bully, so I signed the contract. So I sign it, right? So I get dressed, I go outside, and there's E-Rich. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Ugh. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I know. Shafer Suggs: Waving the contract in the general manager's face saying, this is much of BS. And he looked at me, I remember that look, he had tears in his eyes. And I didn't understand, I'm 22 years old, I'm like, this is crazy, you know? I was just so, it was hard for me to process. Later that year, after the off season, my mom called me in the room, she said, I have something to ask you. Well, Erich called me up. He said, to me, do you think that the reason that Schaeffer didn't listen to me was because I left you? I said, left you? I go, mom, he's my dad, isn't he? And she started to cry. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Wow. Shafer Suggs: And that's what I knew. That's what I knew. And so this is all bottom of my identity in so many different ways. You know, there was no face. You know, I was a black kid that was growing up with a lot of white friends. So I was called an Uncle Tom, right? Because I was in band. I was in Cub Scouts, right? Okay, I'm on the playground. Okay, I'm skinny and people making fun of me, right? The whispering things, this quiet noise, right? So when I became an NFL football player, that was me. I have to grab that identity. I grabbed it, right? And when it left. It was all that stuff had metastasized. It had gotten, it was just like it never left. You know, and I began to self, not purposely self-medicate, but it was like, it was there, right? The cocaine and the, it was there, right? But I almost died, you know? So, you know, that world, you know, that world was tough, but I am again, so blessed that I am here today to be able to share that story and that, you know, we all come from some type of trauma. mean, it's the root of everything, right? Some people live that the trauma just happened to them. And that's the way I was living. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, the problem that we run into these days, ⁓ just keeping it real, is I kind of recently went through a bit of a shift in the way that I talk about the work that we do. And it's mostly because no matter how much we try and normalize and take away the stigma, when you tell somebody that you're a mental health coach, they think, well, that's not for me because I don't suffer from mental health illness or anything. And it's like, because they think that it makes them less than to admit that there's exactly that there's anything wrong with them. And so I've kind of reframed it to mental resilience because I think everybody can admit that they've had some difficult times in their life, but no one wants to think of it as an illness because then there's something wrong with them and they're admitting it or that makes them weak for admitting it or things like that. it's, that's why I really love the work that we do. And then, know, ex NFL football player that Shafer Suggs: The stigma. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): had a rough time and rebuilds his life, then loses his wife, then throws himself into his kids. His kids turn out phenomenal, have all kinds of great opportunities despite only having one parent. I mean, it's like, if it's cool for this guy to say that he's gone through mental health issues, it should be cool for everybody. You know I'm saying? So I just wanna say that because I'm tired of hearing it that, you know, Shafer Suggs: Yeah. Yeah. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): There has to be something wrong with me for me to say that I've got a mental health problem. No, it just means you're normal. And the normal people can admit that this is, the world isn't easy, life isn't easy. We all go through tough times and it's how we respond to them. It's that toolbox that you talked about, Schaefer. You've got the tools, you've got the information that you can cope with the things, things that most people would never even want to fathom. And you've come through it like a champ. And I thank you for being with us. And this isn't my way of trying to wrap up with you or anything. This is just my way of saying, is just a good opportunity to just kind of cast a vote for people that work and do the things that we do to try and help normalize mental health and not make it seem like we're broken. That's really out of our book. We're not broken, we're overloaded. And that's what we try and tell people. But thank you for. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: Right, right. Right, right. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): you know doing this work with us i really appreciate it Shafer Suggs: Well, we're a team forever. know, the stigma is the one thing that we have to continue. These narratives continue to talk about it. I have a program called Airden Winter 23, and my goal and objective is to create a large peer support group for guys who are on the battlefield, whether it's football, you know, because there's not only emotional and mental trauma, there's physical trauma as well, but getting us all to talk about it. You know how high up in life you've been. It doesn't discriminate, right? And that stigma is the one thing that we have to fight. know, Kelsey, don't lose it, man. There are going to be some people that just won't get it. But we continue to talk about it. I continue to make myself vulnerable. Because every time I do this, I get stronger. I get more blessed. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): No. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): for Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: You know, I feel like, okay, this is like scoring a touchdown on Monday Night Football. Right? This is what it's like. Hopefully what we're doing together is something that will impact maybe just one person or two people. And that's what matters. I really appreciate you guys allowing me to be a part of your lives today and... ⁓ Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: Man, anytime you want to, ⁓ when I have my show, my inter-retter program, you definitely will be back on and I will throw a guest your way. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, no, I... Listen, there's just a couple of things I want to say here. Um, if it's okay. One, you know, I'm looking at it from my perspective. Okay. I'm a drug addict and alcoholic in recovery with underlying mental health. And, and I want to give you a compliment as well, because going through what you went through to get sober, live a life of recovery, have a family, and then go through what you went through with your wife, passing away at a young age and having to raise those kids and doing such a great job, raising those kids. being unwavering with your recovery and your sobriety is a testament to your strength. And I want to compliment you in regards to that, okay? ⁓ Shafer Suggs: Thank you. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I also just want to touch base on if we can, and I know sometimes it could be a little sensitive subject, but I mean, we're talking about your football days and so forth. And I know you and I had some conversations at the health department and I said, you're blessed to avoid the whole CTE thing or what have you. in regards to the mental health crisis for some of these veteran football players and the addictions and what we're seeing there. Do you have a lot of, I don't need to know names obviously, but I mean, do you have a lot of conversations with individuals that are struggling with depression and addiction and things like that? Are they using the tools to try to educate them and try to give them some guidance as well? Shafer Suggs: So that's the goal and objective of my program is to create that. Now the NFL, we're doing a lot better. I'm on the executive board for the NFLPA here in Chicago and we have the NFL Trust. And part of our benefits is addressing mental health. We have one of the benefits that we have is we get eight free mental health free sessions per issue, per family member. ⁓ Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Yeah. Shafer Suggs: ⁓ And that can continue as well. So they're doing a really good job of addressing it. ⁓ I want to get them younger. I want to get them earlier. I want to get to the families. I want to get to the coaches. Okay. That's where it really starts. And now with, and my daughter will share with you, now with ⁓ access to more money early on in their lives. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Sure. Shafer Suggs: Right, the NIL, okay, and the portal, okay. So all these kids are going into the portal. You think all those girl kids are getting picked up? Then what happens to them, right? So that whole transition from the world that we live to all of a sudden, you feel broken. That kind what my son went through, right? You're in a structured environment. You told what to do. You told what to shoot, how to tackle, this. When to go to class and all of a sudden you're out there, okay? Because the lights don't dim. They just shut off. It gets black, right? So yes, we, that's my goal. And there's a bunch of players out there. ⁓ Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): room Yeah. Yeah. Shafer Suggs: that we're reaching out to, because I think a group of us, a group of us, right, sitting around talking about the real deal, right, will be a very safe haven for some of those that are afraid to talk about it, because you're not tough enough. I mean, we talking about mentally ill. The stuff we heard, we were little boys, right? Get out there and play. Okay, that don't hurt. You know, you're pussy. You know, that kind of stuff, right? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Go. Yep. Shafer Suggs: Right? But what happens to these kids now, not only do you have their own pressure, but you got family pressures now. They all want to put their hands in the pot. Right? Now you are responsible for families now. You're responsible for this entourage, right? And guess when the money's gone, there's no romance without finance? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: You know when the money's gone, they're gone. Okay, you're left there with trying to pick up the pieces So yes, ⁓ it's we we're not doing enough. I'm gonna tell you right now Collectively across the board. We're not doing enough. We got to continue to be those ambassadors and strive This is what it's all about. What we're doing right now is paving that pathway man like us You know You know, I mean that's Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Yep. Shafer Suggs: That's what it's all about. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Are you proud of how far the NFL has come in terms of dealing with CTE and all the mental health stuff that surrounds that? Shafer Suggs: Well, the CTE, that's a diagnosis that you can't really until the brain is dead, right? Yeah. So was part of the concussion lawsuit when we won it. And the reason we won it is because the NFL did not reveal the findings of the studies of the long-term blows to the head for 20 years. So when we won it, we all had to go and get two or three day complete brain scan. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: And to get paid, it's like, you know, they get the findings and based on your results, you got paid. And the guys who got paid are guys who probably only had two weeks to live, right? Right? So, I mean, because I was fine. So it was good news, bad news, right? Good news. My kids are probably different, say different, right? But good news. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Shafer Suggs: I'm okay, but bad news, I'm not getting any money, right? So that happened, what? Oh, God, God. Did you see the movie Concussion? That movie Concussion? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we're getting there, you know, and people ask me, did you, you know, did you mind your son playing football? And right now, football is probably safer than it's ever been. It's still violent. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): ⁓ yeah. Shafer Suggs: But we don't use our heads anymore. Right? We don't leap with our head. You know, you don't get stickers because you got the opposing team's paint on your helmet. Right? You know, we don't do that. And so he's playing, he was playing where he got, he got banged up a couple of times because, you know, you, don't get a blow to the head. You got to, when you hit the ground, hit a knee, you know, and this is all sports, but it's getting better. They, you know, we won the lawsuit. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, yeah, different ways of doing it. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Right. Shafer Suggs: ⁓ the lawsuit's lifetime. So if I started to black out pretty soon, I could go back and get re-diagnosed. you know, it's getting better. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): down. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, the quote that I'm always reminded of when we're having these types of conversations about football is the Mike Dick quote that football isn't a contact sport, it's a collision sport. I always love that because it's bang on. Shafer Suggs: Delusion. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Well, speaking of collisions, you just let me do a question. So I, you played the Chicago Bears obviously. Okay. Did you ever had to tackle Walter? Shafer Suggs: You Hey. Okay, hold on one second. I'm gonna get up for a second. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Hahaha Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): I love this already and this was totally not planned I swear. Whatever he's about to show us this was not planned. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): There you go. Shafer Suggs: That's number 23 and number 34. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yep. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Awesome. Shafer Suggs: and he's getting ready to see his hand. What does he get ready to do to me? Stip farm me, right? And we tackled him on that play, but I didn't get him. What he did, he stip farmed me, he went backwards and we got him for a loss. But this is actually a puzzle. I'll send both of you a glossy copy of this, but this is actually a puzzle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, him and I met. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): You're gonna get stiff for it. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): EW! Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Okay. That's awesome, man. I would love that. That's awesome. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): That's awesome. Shafer Suggs: many times on the field. I can tell you what, that man right there was the greatest running back that I ever played against. that includes Earl Campbell, of course, OJ Sepsis wasn't bad, Tony Dorsett, right? So there's some pretty good ones out there, but that one here, that guy right there, he was the best. So yeah, I ran into him. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Did you get a chance to know him off the field at all? Shafer Suggs: What's that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. And I can say right now that the brother has the biggest, he had the biggest hands in the world. You know how you just carry the ball with that one hand? His hands are huge. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): So, bye-bye. Yeah. I some pretty big quads too because I stood next to him as like a six or seven year old kid and I got a picture of that. So. Shafer Suggs: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, he was a big joster on the plane. He would, the guys would go to sleep. They had their suits on, their white shirts, and he would get lipstick from the stewardess. And while they were sleeping, he put the lipstick on their collar. So when they go home... You're the prankster. Yeah. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, he was a he was a prankster man. Did get ahead of cool. I don't know if you ever heard the story, but did you would be in the office late at Hell's Hall? And he said there would be like this Spanish speaker woman. Hello, Coach Ditka. Meet me at the hotel at whatever time, whatever. And he kept getting these phone calls and these phone calls and these phone calls and Ditka didn't know who the hell it was. And then one day he's at practice and he's calling a play and he hears the voice behind him and it's friggin Walter laughing his ass off. Walter was prank calling Ditka while he was in the office late. Shafer Suggs: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I didn't play with him. I played against him. But most of the, a lot of the guys that were on the 85 Bears team, I know really, really well. And they all have a Lord of Pain story and a Doug Plank story. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Yeah, well, 46 defense. know, so my Walter Payton story, you know, when they call him sweetness. Okay. I, I know him as sweetness for what he did. So this was way back when Bob Avellini and Vince Evans were the quarterbacks for the Bears. My grandpa took me to Lake Forest college. Okay. For, you know, for the camp or whatever. the players are walking to the dorms. They weren't on golf courts, golf carts back then, Kelsey getting, you know, to and from. So, I mean, they were accessible. And I saw Walter with a bunch of kids around him. And I'm like, said, six or seven years old. go, grandpa, there's Walter Pate. Shafer Suggs: Great. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): and he goes, had just too many kids around him. Let's go over here. Well, Bob Avelini is walking. So Bob Avelini, my grandpa asked Bob Avelini for an autograph. He cussed out my grandpa. Said I had a full day of practice, blah, blah, blah. called him a couple of names, right? Walter hears this. Okay. Stop signing autographs and ask my grandfather, you know, sir, is everything OK? Because I just want to get an autograph for my my grandson and. Walter goes, I'll do one step better. I'll take a picture with your grandson tells all those kids to wait over there. He takes a picture. He's got his arm around me. He gave me an autograph. I actually still have the picture and I actually have the picture. took a picture of a picture on my phone. I'm going to text it to both of you. I mean, I got this big smile on my face and we're in the line green friggin short. Shafer Suggs: All that. ⁓ Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): So I think it's like 80 or 81 or what have you but I remember looking at that picture his fitting quads are huge His legs were huge unbelievable the strength of that man Shafer Suggs: Yeah, yeah, he's... Yeah, he was phenomenal. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): So, well, I really enjoyed this discussion Schaefer, and I really appreciate you being on the podcast. And I'm looking to continue to work with you in the community as we continue to educate the general public on such an important topic. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah, well actually I'm gonna kind of wrap it up starting with a question because after this conversation with all the things we talked here, all the things that you've gone through in your life ⁓ where some people would think about of your football accomplishments ⁓ and I want to ask you, is the single thing that you're the most proud about? Shafer Suggs: ⁓ Fatherhood. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Exactly. Shafer Suggs: Fatherhood, yeah, fatherhood, family, fatherhood. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): I knew you were going to say that. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): I knew he was gonna say it too. But it's funny because before you were talking about how you found your identity in football, well, you have a new identity now. Dad, grandpa, that's your identity. that should be your proudest moment. And then I'll just kinda as a follow-up then, so for a father listening to this right now, maybe going through loss, pressure, feeling overwhelmed, what would you say to a father to give some perspective? Shafer Suggs: Well, I wrote something down that I wanted to end off with and maybe hope this will apply, but I often talk about my success as an always equal fulfillment. And sometimes the strongest thing that you can do is rebuild. And if you feel stuck, overwhelmed, or like you're losing yourself like I did, you're not broken. You're overloaded. And with the right tools and with the right support group, the right support, And the will is to be honest, you can rebuild your life one step at a time. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): don't think I can close our show any better. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): No, just end it Kelsey. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): So just thank you so much Schaefer for everything that beat any clothes I could have come up with. And I'm not even going to edit this part. I'm just going to say, gosh darn it, the guy one-upped me. I can't close any better. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder S2T): Yeah. Beautiful. Love you too. Shafer Suggs: Love you guys. This is great. soon, okay? Bye-bye. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder S2T): Thank so much, Jaffer. Thank you. All right.