Latest / Mortgage Marketing Radio / Ep # 33: The World’s #1 Small Business Guru

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Ep # 33: The World’s #1 Small Business Guru · Mortgage Marketing Radio

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Hey listeners, it's Jeff Zim for Welcome to another episode of Mortgage Marketing
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on real estate and many, many other industries.
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A couple of quick awards and honors about Michael and then I'll get into our conversation.
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Michael was named the world's number one small business guru by Inc. magazine.
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He has sold over 6 million books since his first book, The Emeth, Why Most Small Businesses
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Don't Succeed and What to Do About It.
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He is of course a New York Times, a Wall Street Journal, a business week best selling
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author.
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He has worked with tens of thousands of businesses of all types, size and shapes across the country
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and is literally the what I'll call the wizard if you will, the guru if you will to use
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that word of understanding what truly makes a business succeed.
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How do you begin as a sole proprietor as just one person?
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Where do you start and how do you grow and expand and scale that business so that it becomes
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predictable, repeatable, scalable?
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So Michael and I take an unpacking session here where we get into obviously some of the
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core principles about that.
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We talk about his business startup incubator called the Dreaming Room, which is a two and
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a half day training event that I personally have attended and find it to be an incredible
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experience for opening up, giving me a new vision of what's possible for me in my business
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and probably more importantly, most importantly, understanding that what I do in my day to day
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activities, what you do as a mortgage loan originator, it's not about the day to day stuff,
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it's not about the doing it, the originating, the opening and closing loans, the making
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calls and meeting with real estate agents and it's not about just making money.
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It needs to be about something more than that, bigger than that.
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Otherwise those activities eventually burn us out and it never becomes enough and we
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don't want to spend a lifetime doing something that doesn't give our life meaning.
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So this is a little bit unique, different conversation today in that it's really opening
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up those ideas, those thoughts and those concepts because you know, Michael is a different
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thinker, right?
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Michael believes that in order to truly flourish, a small business must touch the lives of
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its primary influencers, right?
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The customers, the employees, your partners, you've really got to start thinking about this
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in a different mindset of just being a mortgage loan originator and being about something
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more, something bigger in a deep and meaningful way.
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And today's session will hopefully be thought provoking, right?
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Get you thinking differently, get you to become what Michael calls an awakened entrepreneur
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to seek a path that has at its core a higher and more inspiring meaning than just making
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money, selling a loan or growing your market share.
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And so I hope you find this session of mortgage marketing radio as thought provoking and
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inspiring as I do.
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You may want to pull over and take some notes at some point, but most importantly, I think
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just sit back and listen, let Michael's direction in teaching and nudging take you perhaps
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to a place maybe you haven't been before or need to revisit and I'm so glad you're
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here being part of the show.
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I would love to hear your comments.
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By the way, if you haven't joined our private Facebook group yet, make sure you check in
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the show notes.
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There'll be a link to our private Facebook group in there.
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We'd love to have you in there.
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That's where we take a deeper dive and can share some more useful ideas, tips and resources
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with you.
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So without further ado, let's get into bringing Michael Gerber on to the show.
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Michael Gerber, welcome to the show.
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Hi, Jeff.
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I'm delighted to be here.
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No, the pleasure is all mine and I do appreciate you making time because I know you're extremely
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busy.
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Must be in high demand as you have been for multiple decades and it's a great honor to
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have you on mortgage marketing radio and obviously you and I go back a number of years
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having attended your dreaming room several years ago, which we'll talk about in just a few
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moments having been a fan of the entire series of the e-miff books and all that you do
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to help small businesses.
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So it's funny, and preparing for this, I decided to dive back into some of the texts
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if you will and the books that you've written and one of these things struck me this morning
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as I was revisiting it.
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And I wanted to open up with something you said in the e-miff revisited, which is that
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you believe that a business can be an exciting metaphor for, quote, the way.
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I wanted to open up with that and perhaps unpack a little bit what you mean by that.
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Well, you also recall in the e-miff I talked about the martial art studio, the Dojo, and
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I spoke in one of my chapters of revisited and certainly have revisited this conversation
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countless times in the 29 books I've authored now.
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And that is I see the process of a business as a Dojo for the founder, the creator of
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that business, and for the people who come there to work.
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It's a place like a call of practice, you get to learn how to stand, you get to learn
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how to speak, you get to learn how to think, you get to learn how to create, you get to
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learn how to move, you see your relationship with each other.
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Not as a conflict, but as a dance challenge.
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And when you begin to think about it like that, it takes on a completely unique form, a
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form that I believe is significantly more alive than simply the act of a commercial
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enterprise.
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And that then creates what is commonly and sadly only too commonly referred to as culture.
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In short, the culture of a Dojo is a very, very strong culture.
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And the culture of most companies aren't.
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So in the books, in all of my teaching and all of the work I've done, I've attempted
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to raise the level of the conversation to have something of a significantly deeper meaning
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than simply the conversation about mechanics, how to do it, how to do it, how to do it.
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Just as in a truly inspired Dojo, the art isn't how to block, how to kick, how to do this,
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how to do that.
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It isn't the mechanics of the art, albeit of course, mechanics are critical.
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It's the meaning behind the art.
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And that higher meaning is absent in most actual Dojos as well.
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So the importance of that, the way I believe to be significant.
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Yeah, there's a lot in there and that's very thought-provoking in many different ways.
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I'm sure you've seen, obviously you've dealt with tens of thousands of businesses.
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That's a paradigm shift for people to be able to start thinking like that.
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And yet, I think I hear from what you're saying is that still today, most businesses aren't
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looking at their business as a practice or as a place of growth, if you will.
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And there I use the word enlightenment.
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No, they don't, of course.
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Nor interesting way, as many books as I've written, and as many companies that we have
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coached over the years, well over a hundred thousand.
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It's something that even when we speak it, people resist it, because it takes them to
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a discomfort zone, meaning they're just not comfortable with that kind of a conversation
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because also it calls something from them that just don't have and have never been engaged
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in.
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So even if they are martial artists, meaning even if they are Taikwondo or whatever, even
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if they've achieved a high level of performance, most likely they've never had this conversation.
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You say they don't like to go there because it's uncomfortable, because it's something
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they don't have, and by that you mean culture or what is it that they don't have?
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They've never been acculturated to go beyond the pragmatics of their lives.
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So people are pragmatically disposed.
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That doesn't mean that, you know, I'm saying people are less than, and I'm simply saying
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they're pragmatically disposed, look at all the conversations about money, look at all
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the conversations about wealth, look at all the conversations about et cetera, et cetera,
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et cetera, et cetera.
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What are you going to business?
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Well, you're going to business to come wealthy.
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You're going to business to make it on your own.
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You're going to business, but it's all economic, it's all economic.
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And so most often all the conversations is about how to make money, how to make money,
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how to make money, how to make money as opposed to how to be real when you show up today.
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So in E-Mith, certainly you've seen it, if you've read anything other than my E-Mith
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Redisney book, in E-Mith Mastery, for example, I go into the five essential functions of
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a truly remarkable company that's inspiration, education, application, implementation, continuous
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improvement, inspiration creates an epiphany, education creates understanding, application
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creates a direct experience that then leads to implementation to spread that experience
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system-wide and continuous improvement is the continuous, you might say, evolution
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beyond the place that you've achieved while you're working on your company as opposed
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to just in it.
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And so I'm constantly calling people to the way.
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And in fact, if anybody were to speak about it in that way, they would say, Gerber is
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the guy who speaks about the way, and he's resolute about it.
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From the very first day I spoke about business to this day as we're speaking right now in
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my 80th year, it's the way, Jeff, it's the way.
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Yeah, so you're saying, well, I don't want to, you tell me.
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So the purpose of a business isn't just to earn a profit.
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Is that part of what you're saying?
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It should be something more, something bigger.
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Oh, of course, let's say the purpose of life isn't just to make a living.
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The purpose of life is to discover the purpose of life, which is a never-ending journey,
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of course, just like our business.
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Of course, one might say this is all personal growth steps, but what is it?
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So effectively, the purpose of life is to discover the purpose of life.
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That's the meaning of life, why am I here?
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Why do we come here and then why do we leave here?
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Well, that's what religion is all about.
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So when my people, Jewish people, first proclaimed God, and then wrote a whole book called
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Torah, which is identical today to the one that was first written all those thousands
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of years ago, what in the world do you think they're talking about?
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They're not talking about making a living, they're talking about when you're making a living,
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the ethics of that.
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When you have a child, the meaning of that, when you speak to in on and on and on and on.
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So they say, and of course in the New Testament, and of course in Zen Buddhism, and of course
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in, so you understand, it's all beyond just the mechanics of it, because if it's just
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the mechanics of it, it might as well just shoot ourselves now.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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It's got to be about more than that.
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So that, just wow, there's just so much that ties into that, I mean, there's purpose,
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there's culture, there's all these thoughts and words flowing into my head.
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There's the seven core elements of a highly, use the word functional, how the functional
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business in Emyth Mastery.
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Do you have any examples that you think today stand out as a company doing well in living
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the way, if you will?
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I could go on and on and on about that, but the truth is giving an example of it, begs
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the question, then we'd have to say, well, how do they do that?
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Why do they do that when they did that?
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What difficulties do they have doing that?
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And so on, just understand that my work, the Emyth work, is influence more exceptional
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companies than any other work on the planet.
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And so all you need to do is discover, for example, in Inc. 5000 or Inc. 500, I don't even
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remember any more.
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Every year they vote on the most important book to the CEOs of those companies, and every
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year the Emyth revisited is the number one book.
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So you'd say to yourself, so do we have any examples of that?
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I'd say there are countless examples of that by their very own words.
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The founder of 1-800-Gott Junk tells how he started his company from a pickup truck, and
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he was picking up junk to make a living while it was going to college.
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And a friend of his gave him the Emyth revisited and said, have you read this?
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I just sent an email to Brian Scutimore, who was the founder and CEO of 1-800-Gott Junk.
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I'm going to interview him.
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And in the email that I sent him, I said, the story I'm interested in telling is how
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you went from a pickup truck to a 747.
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Yes, a very successful story there of that company, wildly successful.
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And I know that's the case.
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Many, many companies use your book as the Bible, if you will, as a go-to source for having
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that bigger vision of being about more than, like you say, the doing at the doing at the
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day of the mechanics, because at the end of the day, it's got to be about something more
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than that, because that only lasts so long.
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We kind of burn out on just making a promise.
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It's just a mechanic who cares.
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Right.
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Anybody can do the mechanics?
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Well, anybody can do the mechanics, but nobody will do the mechanics if something else
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isn't there.
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That's the point.
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That's the point of the dream, the vision, the purpose, the mission.
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Everybody can do the mechanics, but nobody will do the mechanics, unless they're just
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forced to do the mechanics, until they re-date the mechanics, to the meaning underlying
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your company.
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Yeah.
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And so the mechanics are born out of meaning.
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If all they're born out of is to be good at what we do, it's insufficient.
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I like that.
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I like that a lot.
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And so let's do this.
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Let's pivot a little bit, because that's kind of one conversation, right?
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That's that overarching top of the vision, if you will, of the company that hopefully influences
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downstream.
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And so a fair number of my listeners in this audience, they're made up of mortgage-loan
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originators, executives, and companies, and things like that.
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So for those folks that are in the streets, so to speak, doing it every day, slugging it
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out in the trenches, I'm not talking to anybody, but those guys.
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Okay.
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Well, some of them may be going, hey, that's, how does this make sense for me, right?
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Of course.
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Of course, how does it make sense to me?
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Yeah.
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Well, that's the beginning of the education, isn't it?
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That's the beginning of the inspiration, rather.
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That's where the epiphany comes from.
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The epiphany comes from hearing something that moves me and calls my attention to it.
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And I suddenly begin to say, I'm a student, I'm a white belt, I'm a beginning, I'm beginning
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something.
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I have no knowledge of, no awareness of, no understanding of.
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I have no understanding of the tradition underlying this exercise that I'm going through this
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taekwondo, even then, I don't even know what taekwondo means or why it means it, and what
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underlies it, and why I should even care about it other than is to protect myself.
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So in the dreaming room, you talk about, if I remember correctly, something about starting
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with a blank canvas, am I right in memory?
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Yeah, I'd call it a blank piece of paper and beginner's mind, blank piece of paper and
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beginner's mind.
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So I'm a, you know, a mortgage loan originator.
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My job is to obviously, you know, go out and originate mortgage loans and produce a certain
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amount of production monthly annually.
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There's various, you know, activities, tasks through which I do that, how would you advise
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that person, you know, to, to kind of start to integrate and take on what you just took
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us through?
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Well, I would take you to the journey room, and I would have a conversation with you,
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and that conversation would start with a story, and you're all here, and you're here for
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a reason.
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You think you're here to learn how to do mortgage loans and be successful in that business,
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and in reality, we're not here to talk about that at all.
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Let's begin at the very beginning.
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Just pretend that what you do is never going to satisfy you.
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Let's just take the possibility that in fact, getting immersed in doing what you do better
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than you do it could in fact be a tragedy of monumental proportions, because if you get
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to do better at what you do better than you do it, you're probably become enslaved by
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doing it.
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Until, of course, it lets you down in some way, and it always lets us down in some way.
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Unless there's a bigger meaning, a bigger purpose for it, unless there's something calling
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me to it that reflects my desire to live a enriched life, to truly bring something
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of great value to people I meet on the street, to bring great value to my family, to become
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perhaps the philosopher of my family, the dreamer of my family, the one who truly is asking
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the intrinsic questions about why we're here and why are we doing anything we're doing?
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All of that needs to begin the conversation here in the dreaming room.
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So welcome to the dreaming room, welcome to discovering what, in fact, life is really
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all about it, and why most people never ever make it.
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And why you too will suddenly come face to face with the fact that what you do has no
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meaning to you, other than to make a living, and so you're going to have to find meaning
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outside of what you do in order for you to feel that your life has meaning.
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But here is this, if that's true, and you're spending eight, nine, ten hours a day doing
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what doesn't provide you with meaning for the rest of your life, just imagine the price
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you've just paid. Welcome to dreaming room.
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Well, you know, it's funny, I remember that experience sitting in the dream and that's
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kind of like a grab you buy the shirt collar and shake you, wake up introduction there,
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or even lower. Exactly. You're like, wait a minute, what did I just sign up for?
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Yeah, what is this? I thought I was going to learn how to sell more, damn it.
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And that's what happens. And that's what happens to every single person in the room.
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What happens to every single person in the room is, and oh, wait a minute, I didn't sign
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up for this. Oh, yes, you did. You were born. It's kind of like when the student is ready,
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Michael Gerber will appear, right? Absolutely. That's great. So a couple of recaps on that.
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What you're doing, you know, day in and day out, eight, nine, ten hours a day may not be, and
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most likely is not giving you purpose or meeting in your life. And so you either have to discover
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how to get purpose from that or outside of what you do. Is that correct? Yeah, that's what I was
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saying. Okay. What have you seen? How successful are people? Some people may be thinking,
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you know, listening to this thinking, oh, wait a minute, you know, I'm a, I'm a mortgage loan
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originally. Heck, that's not my purpose. I need to go do something else. And that's, I don't
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want to necessarily, you know, misdirect people because it doesn't mean you need to change careers,
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although sometimes it does, right? Or it means through the dreaming room that the process you take
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people through, it's they'll be able to discover that meaning through what they do, or still get
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fulfillment from other activities that aren't the nine to five. Does that make sense? You got,
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you got to understand it comes to the dreaming room. Okay. So in the case that we just spoke about,
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I'm talking to that about guys in the business, meaning they own a business. Yep. Whether they are
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simply independent contractors or they actually own a company and hire people and bring a board
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people to grow their company. Right. That's the guy I'm typically speaking to, even if he's a sole
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proprietor, that's who I'm speaking to. So I'm speaking to him about the company he's creating.
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Well, and people create a company within a company too. But of course, yeah. But I'm saying to him,
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but it has to originate from him, from her, and short being an entrepreneur, or simply talking
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about how to make it better, how to make it better, by how to become more effective at making
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money. I'm saying that is a crucially distorted view of what a company really is could be. And I'm
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saying must be if it's truly going to inspire you to grow beyond where you are and the people you
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attract to you to go beyond where they are, just as I call it doing it, doing it, doing it, doing it,
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doing it. So all of my work has always been about the dojo, the practice all the way, the meaning
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underlying everything you do. It's not the money, it's the meaning. And if there is no meaning,
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the money will never satisfactorily replace it. Right. I think everybody kind of gets that,
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either from personal experience or at a conceptual level. We've seen enough stories of people who
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had all the money in the world, but we're completely unhappy and sort of doing some non-productive things,
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habits and behaviors. And there's all the personal growth stuff you can go to. You can go to
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Tony Robbins, you can go here, you can go there. But you understand that's all about you. That's
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the personal development stuff. My stuff isn't the personal development stuff,
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it's the totality of stuff that is you live in a universe and your company becomes a universe
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all of its own. And now you're presuming to design, build, launch and grow that universe
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in the universe of universities in such a way as to truly develop a strong center at the heart
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of your company. So you might say, I'm in the business of personal growth for companies.
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So if a company is alive, I'm saying it must grow and it must grow with great intention.
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And that great intention is brought to it by the people who found it.
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So we think of America, the country. America is an enterprise. We go back to the founders of
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America. They shaped this enterprise. They shaped this enterprise by stating explicitly
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what it was to be and what it wasn't to be. And as you begin to see that, then they invested
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America with meaning. Interesting. Yeah. And that obviously has had a huge impact on
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the direction of our company and our country and all the achievements and developments and why
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we're still the greatest country in the world. Because of those founding fathers and those
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principles, right? Got it. Yeah. Which the same can be said for a company, for your business,
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for your small enterprise, sole proprietorship. So all right. So just a few minutes left here.
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That makes a lot of sense. And I really hope that those listening and inspires them to really
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pause and think about that. And if you're looking for more guidance and direction on the dreaming
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room, as I said, we would mention that. And it's a process I've gone through. And it definitely is,
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as Michael said, a grabby by the shirt college or elsewhere process. But I think too,
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what's great about that because I was in that mode of a quote salesperson slash entrepreneur
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or whatever and always just doing it and thinking about, okay, I got to produce this. I got to do
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this. I got to make these calls, do these meetings, etc. And that gets very tiresome and empty
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after a while unless you do have that bigger overriding purpose. So I want to talk about briefly,
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the dreaming room because you have one coming up. I believe in San Diego. Can you talk about that
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when that is? Absolutely. It's on March 3rd, 4th and 5th in San Diego. And you can find out
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all about it at beyondemith.com. One word beyondemith.com forward slash dreaming. And also there's
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another link. And Jeff, you'll provide them with that link. I presume. Yep, Jonots.
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So March 3rd, 4th and 5th. And this is one I'm leading. And it also is the launch of our new
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enterprise because my last emith book has just been published on December 7th, 2016. And it's called
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Beyond the Emith, the evolution of an enterprise from a company of one to a company of 1000.
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And I say it's the simplest book I've ever written because it comes down to the absolutely
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clear and compelling reality for anybody who's going to create a small company to grow that small
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company into a larger company and then a larger company all for the purpose of ultimately selling it.
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When I say that, you understand, Jeff, the people say to me, yeah, but there's got to be my other
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purpose for being business. I mean, to make a difference, et cetera, et cetera. But of course,
31:29
there is. And of course, that's critical. But if you don't realize when you start out of day one
31:37
of your company, I call it new code, not old code. When you start out on that very first day of your
31:45
company, you're creating a company to scale it. And you have to build it to scale it. And by
31:53
scaling it, I mean to grow it so that it can do exactly what it's intended to do in exactly the way
32:02
it is intended to do it and to, in fact, bring to earth a true vital responsive and original brand.
32:13
That's your job. And so I teach that job. The beginning of that job, the platform for that job
32:22
is the dream, the vision, the purpose, and the mission. And you have to understand the not the
32:27
way that you understand those words. Typically, they're the way I've fashioned those words and
32:35
utilize them to express exactly what's needed for you to build a platform to grow upon.
32:43
Well, thank you for that. And I have to say, again, as an advocate, you know, you definitely
32:49
walk out with not only the insights and thought-provoking kind of like, you know,
32:55
Xip open your head, unpack, you know, all the stuff that's in there and get real clear on all those
33:03
very important items you just mentioned and walk out with a renewed sense of focus, purpose,
33:08
direction, and, you know, this compelling future that pulls you towards something that's bigger than you.
33:15
So, yeah, and the truth is, you have a company and small business cannot live without you.
33:21
The dreaming room is as essential as breathing air. It is absolutely critical. It's not just
33:29
something fun to do, nice to do, meaningful to do, a good weekend. It's something that literally
33:38
will transform the way every single person who comes into that room thinks about everything they
33:45
do from that day forward. And the good news is, with beyond the emeth, we now have the program
33:52
that follows the dreaming room to take you step by step by step to go to work on your company in a
33:59
way you will have never going to work on your company. Step one, step two, there are eight steps
34:06
in all and we will walk you through that with master herbal facilitators who take you through the
34:13
journey to grow your company to scale. Absolutely, exquisite. Yeah, and as you said, you're leading
34:20
this one. So, that's a unique opportunity to, you know, be with the Maestro at this session. So,
34:27
once again, we'll put the link to the show notes in there. Before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you,
34:31
it's interesting, you know, we're talking about this, a business, you know, having a vision,
34:36
a purpose and, you know, being about the way and the why as well. I was thinking about the story
34:44
that I know you've told in the dreaming room, which is, you know, kind of how you started on this
34:48
journey. And what, you know, what's your, why is this so such a passionate area for you? What's
34:56
behind all that? You know, what's your why or purpose? Well, it just became obvious to me. A friend
35:04
of mine had an ad agency and he asked me to meet with one of his clients who was it was having
35:09
difficulty converting the leads his ad agency was creating for him. And I'd never thought about
35:16
business. Heck, I was just coming from learning how to be a, a, a freemer. I was going to make some
35:22
a framing contractor. I was going to go to, um, up to Northern California, chill out,
35:27
smoke grass and live my life and make a living blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'd already mastered
35:36
the saxophone. I'd already mastered the psychopedia sales already mastered any number of things.
35:42
And each and every time I had somebody who was speaking to me much the same way that I'm speaking
35:48
to you. And suddenly I'm sitting there with this guy and his high tech company who was having
35:54
difficulty with sales. And I didn't know anything about business. Didn't know anything about high tech.
35:58
And I'm simply asking him questions. And as he, I asked questions, I'm starting with the assumption.
36:04
I don't know anything about business. And suddenly more and more and more and more. And I realized
36:10
I do know something about business. I know that selling is a system. And as I'm asking him questions,
36:15
I realized he doesn't know that. Not only doesn't he know that as I do. But he didn't even know that a
36:22
business is a system. So he's operating this thing in a way that it was obvious could never work.
36:30
And so I told him what he needed to do. And he asked me if I could help him do that. And that was
36:37
the beginning of the event. So here I was in Silicon Valley starting up with a small high tech
36:43
company. And I was going to go in and create a selling system for him. And then the next client,
36:48
the next client, and the next client. And I suddenly walked into McDonald's one day between two
36:55
clients wondering what in the world is missing these guys companies? Because something was missing.
37:01
I just couldn't put my finger on it. And when I walked into McDonald's, I immediately saw it.
37:06
It wasn't like I walked into McDonald's. I got my hamburger. I walked into McDonald's and saw it.
37:12
And when I say I saw it, I saw the totality of it. This company was unlike this McDonald's was
37:20
unlike any company I've been coaching, unlike any of them. This was a totality. It was one thing.
37:29
And all the pieces and parts were like pieces of a puzzle. And I was stunned by that experience.
37:35
And I walked out and I said, so that's what it is. And I realized that I could do that for me,
37:44
meaning I could create a system to do what I was doing on behalf of these small businesses
37:53
by teaching them how to do it. It was astounding. That's what made it happen.
38:00
And what made it deepened it, deepened it, deepened it. Jeff is to see the tragedy on the street.
38:09
Because you saw it over and over again with every business you worked on. They worked with.
38:12
They had no system. Well, not even the businesses I worked with, but the business I didn't work with.
38:18
The tragedy, the failure rate of small business is just stunning. And that nobody has stopped to
38:25
really figure out what that is. Just blew my mind. So I did.
38:32
Yeah. And obviously it's proven out to be the way, right? That was the genesis of the system
38:38
as the solution, right? You got it. Yeah. That's great. Hey, by the way, speaking of McDonald's,
38:43
have you seen the trailer for the new movie? The founder? Yeah, I have. I think it comes out
38:48
this month, doesn't it? Yeah. Are you going to go see it? Oh, sure. My wife and I.
38:52
Yeah. Yeah. That's just looks like a well done movie. And so far, it's getting pretty good
38:57
reviews. But I know, obviously you referenced that a lot as like the system is a solution. And
39:03
you know, the three key core systems that most successful or also successful businesses have,
39:09
right? Is a system in a process for lead gen lead conversion client fulfillment?
39:14
Yep. You got it. And that still holds true today. You wouldn't change that model.
39:19
No, it's absolutely the same, the same, the same. I would just become more dogmatic about it.
39:27
Right. Right. And the tools we use, right? The methods are different. Perhaps internet,
39:30
social media, and things like that. But bottom line, it comes down to those three core processes.
39:35
Absolutely. Awesome. Hey, speaking of saxophone, do you still play? Not really. Not really.
39:41
Yeah. Yeah. But I have the privilege of seeing you play at the Dreamer room. So that was definitely a
39:45
treat. Oh, you were at that one. Well, that was cool. Yeah. It was definitely cool. Well,
39:51
listen, I know you're busy. You've got a lot going on during from the upcoming Dreaming Room.
39:54
Once again, for those listening, the link will be in the show notes. I sincerely encourage you
39:59
almost demand that you go make it happen. It will change your life. It will change the course of
40:06
the direction of your life, how you operate in your business and your life on a daily basis. It'll
40:10
even enhance your relationships, right? With your with your spouse, your kids, and other people in
40:14
your family because the clarity that you get and the new direction is really something that it's
40:20
hard to articulate unless you go through. Yep. And thank you, Jeff. And I say to everybody listening,
40:24
come dream with me. Yeah. Never experienced anything like it. And you will always remember it.
40:31
And it will influence every single thing you do from that day forward. Can you imagine anything
40:38
being that significant of the Dreaming Room is? Absolutely. So thank you, Michael Gerber. It's been
40:44
an honor. And I appreciate you being here for those listeners. If you enjoyed this episode,
40:48
make sure you leave us a rating on iTunes. If you haven't subscribed yet, do so on iTunes or
40:54
Stitcher. And we'd love to hear your feedback. Leave your comments on the blog and appreciate you
40:59
as listeners. And as always, we will see you on the next one. Bye for now.
41:04
Thanks for listening to Mortgage Marketing Radio. One more truth in mortgage marketing,
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