Latest / Being Different Together / #44 - The Pelvis as a Bowl: Emotions, Boundaries, and Letting Go

Transcript

#44 - The Pelvis as a Bowl: Emotions, Boundaries, and Letting Go · Being Different Together

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Being Different Together, the podcast for people who want to make the world a better place, but no, they can't do it alone.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly Brady, acupuncturist, psychotherapist, and certified dialogue therapist.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Nissa Hanger, massage therapist, aromatherapist, coach, and real dialogue specialist.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Together we'll explore how conversations can improve relationships, make work more joyful, and spark healing for ourselves and our communities.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_03: And listen, we don't shy away from the hard conversations.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, we welcome them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't about being right.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's about being different.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Together.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: Episode number, oh gosh, is it 44?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's 44 of being different.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Together.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're on episode 44.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I did not double check, so it's okay.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Refer to the notes.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to not know.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: So we're um we're recording this on a different day than normal.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_03: We're this is a say weekend recording.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: We don't normally do that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very rainy Saturday here today in Tampa.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um and we're here to talk about a really juicy topic.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: We are.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna um if you've been listening on the past couple episodes, although we took a break last episode, um, we started a whole series going up the body, starting with the feet.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: We had a foot episode, we had a leg episode, and then we had an interview with our friend Becky episode that was related but different.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: And now we're on to the pelvis.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: The pelvis slash hips.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: Where would you like to begin?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: Elvis the pelvis.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: So Kelly told me.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Where is that from?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: She told me that a while when we were talking about the episode.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I woke up today when we were recording.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: I just kept thinking, Elvis the pelvis.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Elvis the pelvis.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So where is that from?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: They used to call him that, I think.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they used to call Elvis that.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was like Elvis the Pelvis.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was because he had that really highly sexualized way of dancing that was like kind of.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like when Forrest Gump would was saying it.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, it's I I was looking at him on the TV and I just started moving my hips.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hips.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Elvis the pelvis.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's that's what it was.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Elvis brought the pelvis into popular culture.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, Elvis was I when I was young, I sort of always felt like Elvis was old at that point.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um even though he was pretty young when he died, I think.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: He just seemed old to me because I was just a kid.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is when you're anybody over 16.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Seems old.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, all those kids on a two-one oh seed seemed old to me.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: They are old now.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: Realize they were older than teenagers in that show, anyways.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Luke Perry had a receding hairline, he was supposed to be eighteen.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the pelvis.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the pelvis.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: What what was it about the pelvis itself that you wanted to create that as a like a line of demarcation in the body?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I was curious about how your mind did that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, I mean, we were going up the body.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the last one that we did was the legs.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, it's just like, all right, well, what comes after that?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, the legs the leg bone connects to the hip bone.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: And um and I'm like, okay, can we do a whole episode on the pelvis?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh, absolutely.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's so ri it's it's for me the pelvis is very rich in meaning.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um which I can just kind of rattle off here, um arbitrarily.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I mean the first thing I think of is that the pelvis is where the two become one.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you have two legs that then merge in the trunk of the body.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: So it's where the trunk it it very much is it for me a demarcation of the body.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um so there's that part, but it there's also the this idea of two becoming one because it's also where procreation happens and where you know someone will conceive via another human, one pelvis will conceive another whole human.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: So two literally do become one with the pelvis.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's a place for both elimination and creation.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's a place where we hold things, but we also let things go and release.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think about all of those things.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: Structurally, I mean, I work a lot with the pelvis and my body work.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's very, you know, key in obviously low back pain, hip pain, all that sort of a thing.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I I think a lot about the pelvis, the position of the pelvis, um, the structural work that I studied looks a lot at.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is there, you know, uh how is the pelvis rotated?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: Is it anteriorly rotated, posterior?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: What do those things mean?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Is it uh asymmetrical?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: You have one side going one way, the other side going the other way.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: So it it's such a hub of um meaning for me that I was like, I could talk about that for 45 minutes, no problem.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm I think we could write a book on it.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'm very interested in in the things that you'll be bringing in from all your perspectives.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: So those are sort of my jumping off points with the pelvis.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: The pelvis.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to say, I think, from our lens about the pelvis.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean so the pelvis is the bowl of the body.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: The pelvis is a bowl.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: The pelvis is a bowl.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Pelvis comes from the Latin word basin or bowl.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so immediately then, like what I think of from our lens is I language comes up like this.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you what do you hold?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: What can you contain?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: What what's spilling over?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what's getting stuck?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, just psychologically in the rest of the pelvis.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um also what are what are we refusing to release?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what are we holding on to?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: What are we gestating?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: The pelvis is where we would hold a pregnancy.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um what are we protecting?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, there's so many internal organs there that are vital.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so the other thing is that uh so in traditional Chinese medicine we have an idea about a system in the body called the triple burner.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever heard of this?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or the is it the same as the triple heater?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Triple burner, triple heater, um, sandjiao is the term in um Chinese, which just means triple triple heat.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's not a single anatomical organ.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is an idea from Chinese physiology, traditional Chinese medicine physiology.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Physiology is the description of how the anatomy works.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: To differentiate.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if like if listener, if you're not a body worker, yeah, or someone in medicine, when we talk about anatomy, we're just pointing to structures in the body.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Muscle groups and tendons, and you know, we point, we say, This is your I mean, for example, nose is a simple one.
• 8:19
  unknown: Sure.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: But then how the nose breathes, what's going on between oxygen exchange and the cellul even at the cellular level, that's all physiology.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: How the nose works.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So there's West there's Western physiology and what we think of in allopathic medicine or osteopathic medicine, that has its own form of physiology, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then, and biology, but then there's in traditional Chinese medicine, it's different.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: The physiology is different.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Which I love because there's whole different ways of thinking about like how the body works.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so the triple burner is not a single anatomic origin, it's a functional system.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it describes how the body organizes movement, fluids, heat, metabolism, and also communication.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have an organ like that in the in Western medicine.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have anything like that in Western medicine.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, no, we definitely dovevy that up among various organs, right?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the triple burner is divided into three burners.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: The upper, the middle, and the lower.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the upper jow is your chest, your heart, your lungs.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's often compared to a mist.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: It distributes qi, energy, bioelectricity.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense to me.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: And fluid.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense to me.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: From a western philosophical.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Intuitively, it just like when I describe this to people, they're always like, right.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: It just makes sense.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: The middle jowl is your abdomen, your spleen, and your stomach.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's compared to a fermenting that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the big bowl of the the big the big thing you put everything into to ferment it down, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's like it transforms primarily food and drink.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's the point of the middle ziaoo is to transform your rice and tea.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Things go in into the energy.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: They go in and they actually cook.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: The the idea is that they cook inside.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Transforms.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's a heater.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Transforms.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then the lower ziao, this is where we get into elvis, the pelvis.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is the pelvis and lower abdomen.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Which the lower abdomen is in front of the pelvis, technically, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: The pelvis is towards the back side of the body, whereas I think of the abdomen as being towards the front.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: But it sort of goes through the whole thing, doesn't it?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm well, I'm like there's a front of the pelvis.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: There is a part of the pelvis.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: It does have a higher back.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Because of those iliums.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because of the iliums, right?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's like kind of you think about it like you're and you know, could your stomach hang over your pelvis?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the front?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: As it does for many people.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, the front is lower.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So then that in so in TCM, uh the lower shout includes your kidneys, your bladder, your intestines, uh, your reproductive functions, and that part is compared to a drainage ditch.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was gonna say, this is we're talking elimination over here.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it separates and eliminates wastes.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's the drainage ditch.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the lower burner, I think, is really relevant to this episode because it has to do with reproduction, urination, defecation, sexual function, the kidney essence.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in traditional Chinese medicine, we think that your your sort of primordial, like the qi that you're born with, your jing is stored in your kidney.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually in your kidney.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: So this is very different than the way that in the West we we tend to center our our gravity in our head.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Mmm.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, this came up in the research that I was doing on the pelvis and the bioenergetic perspective of it.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this this demarcation between the center of gravity or living in the head versus living right, let's say, in the pelvis.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so continue on.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't really have much more to say, but I mean that's that's the TCM.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: From the TCM lens, I think of the pelvis in regards to lower ziao.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like um the heart's above, the pelvis is below.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Or or you could think of it almost even though the the anatomy is not exactly like this, it's like it's the heart and then the kidney at the base, and the pelvis is kind of in between.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know anatomically it's not exactly like that, but it you know, that's this is a more of a metaphorical kind of idea between the heart and the kidney having this polarity and then the pelvis and the lower jaw sitting there.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's this idea that you know something gets created between the heart and the kidney.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's like sometimes I I knew a woman who used to say uh sometimes my head will lie to me, and sometimes my heart will lie to me, but my gut never lies to me.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what the gut that she was talking about, I think she was talking about this lower center of gravity.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, totally.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sort of having a knowing in your gut.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the pelvis is some kind of a gatekeeper.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Between above and below.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so much of it.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: It really is.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so much of our culture, like, we put into the shadow things that are associated with I mean, it's not only about PP and poo-poo, it's about locomotion, it's about power, it's about agency.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's about both being able to say, I want to go there, right, and get away from me.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, boundaries are very important.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's it's funny.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Did I did I call the legs feet 2.0?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because I kind of want to call the pelvis legs 2.0.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because feet, legs, pelvis, yes, they all a little bit are about grounding, being connected to the ground, moving forward, but it's like as we're moving up the body, I'm remembering back to the little bit that I studied in Chinese medicine in college.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: So uh my understanding is very rudimentary.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: And um I at that point was comparing it to many other things that I had learned.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: But one of the things that stood out to me when I studied Chinese medicine is what I understood to be an understanding of the human body as being um something that connects for maybe lack of better terms, heaven and earth.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's right.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: So there's there's some idea between, and and I always conceptualize that for myself as like we've talked about this in other episodes.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: We talked about it in the moon episode.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: I know we've talked, we maybe we talked about it in the foot episode, but it's like the heaven is like the ideals.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Heaven is like the things that we can conceptualize.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: I can imagine a perfect world.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then the ground is like what actually does occur here, which isn't could be informed, could be a reflection of that perfect world that I can imagine, but it it has to exist within material reality and the in the limits of material reality.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so I don't know, I kind of really do see the pelvis more than the legs, more than the feet as something that is a place where we can really start to embody the things that are in our head, that are in our heart, that we want to create.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's where we literally create.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: When we when we think about like reproduction and the creating of another human and how many artists and creatives out there have talked about um using birth as a metaphor.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: I did it the other day.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even think about it when someone was like, Hey, how's it someone I hadn't seen in a really long time?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, How are you doing?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I I really interpreted that question as them genuinely wanting to that was not the just the rhetorical, how are you doing?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: They were really curious.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just like, Well, we're getting ready to give birth to a renovation.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because that is what it's starting to feel like at this point.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so it and that experience, as I've talked about before, it's like we are we are dealing with the idea that we had in our head and then how it can exist material in material reality with our limitations of the skills of our contractor, the materials available, the time that we have.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: When you said the skills of our contractor, I was just very tempted to go.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I just did it.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I did not contain myself.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: I love our contractor.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I do in a very special way.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's special.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's a special.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so well, and they are human, okay?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: They are human.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: And and and they have got their own limitations.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: So there's something about as we go down the body, we're dealing more and more and more with sort of like the limitations of actually bringing what we want, of creating the world that we want.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, you said something, and you you said and my mind just went to this place.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: You were like, okay, well, the human exists between heaven and earth.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started thinking about the whole earth and humans roll on it.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like, as humans, I think we want to be the head of the earth, but we're probably actually the pelvis.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say, we're totally, totally.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're locomoting, we're creating, we're doing.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we I think but I think that the default, sense I think therefore I am.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, i is i in the western mind is to is to think that all of our being is coming from our head.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, I I learned recently that Descartes had a really pretty miserable life.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like he lived by himself in a tower, he had no relationships.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Of course he thought because he was I mean, he was doing nothing but thinking.
• 18:43
  unknown: No.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: He don't think he ever had sex in his life.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't have time for the nookie.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't he definitely didn't do it all for the nookie.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't do it all for the nookie, he didn't have time for the nookie.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, if if Descartes got laid, how would our how would our culture have changed?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um would it be like I screw there for I am?
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or I I think that that's a t-shirt I could get behind.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: In more ways in one yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and here's the other thing about the pelvis.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: It was so key in evolution.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: We haven't really talked about this part.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I don't know if I have talked about this as much, but I'm I'm thinking about I really believe that when we became upright primates, now I don't have a whole lot, maybe I've said this on the podcast before.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's part of my the way that I think about things.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe I'll find evidence of this.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: But my hypothesis is, and I think I read this in some of Loan's work um a while back, when we became upright, and our head and our pelvis were no longer on the same plane, like many of our mammalian ancestors were.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: Part of what also happened in the evolution of human consciousness is our ability to have hierarchical thinking.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: And and and more simply put, like because our mouth, I think Freud made this observation, because our mouth and our anus were no longer on the same plane, we uh were able to have disgust.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's where this emotion of disgust originates, supposedly.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: You're not quite there.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I've seen animals exhibit disgust.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Four-legged animals will exhibit disgust.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I know, but then I think about the dog eating poop.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, it's probably not Well, because that's not disgusting to them, but other things.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I see what you're saying.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, and I and I gotta say, the the the mouth and the anus are on the same plane.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a vertical plane.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 21:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: But what's different is that one now is above.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: I there is something there.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: One now is above.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's this thing of it's beneath me.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I am above that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is beneath me.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: Or I can turn my there's also this thing of like turning your nose up at something.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the universal sign of disgust.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right, I know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Our friend Shayna has this little um, she has all these uh Brussels graffon dogs, they're so cute.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the tiniest one, Henri.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh right.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's so French.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: He just lifts his nose at everything.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Oh he just puts his nose up in the air.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So high.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so snooty.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think there is something about the the head being above.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: And this idea of being above something.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Or that it's that that's down below, that that's beneath me, like you said.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that is beneath me.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I took human evolution as a college course, an anthropology course.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I did a bit of a deep dive into human evolution because I was fascinated by it from because of my interest in psychology.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, the the as we've evolved psychologically.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I like applying evolutionary theory to psychology, although that doesn't always work and it can get a bit eugenicist if you're not careful.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um true.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that there is this thing that I remember learning, which is that as as we star were able to stand up and started standing up more, like the way you see chimps and gorillas stand up more.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: What happens then as those primates were standing up more is that their vision changed.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: They developed binocular vision.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that change in their vision helped them to stay upright to be able to scan the horizon for threats and for food sources.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And all and that standing upright and the bino the um the the feature of that binocular vision also started to change the shape of the skull.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Which left room for a bigger brain.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I also think that the structure of the body, including the pelvis, started to change also so that their eyes could remain level while they're walking.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: So their eyes could remain level with the horizon.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: So then you get, but I think also what happens is you become a little bit when you become bipedal, you become a little bit less stable.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's part of the weight-bearing separation in the pelvis that is the core of the structural body work that I studied.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's part of where that comes from.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like and so for me, like working with the structure of the body and in particular the pelvis, I always just I mean, I I don't mean to sound um is it self-aggrandizing or whatever, but I feel like working with the structure of a person's body is I I like to think of it as helping in the the evolution of human consciousness.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, uh yeah, at least that person's consciousness.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: At least that person's consciousness.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: That that we change.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so some of the stuff that that Loan says about the pelvis, you know, it is this bowl, right?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's this container.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's this place where we release and eliminate.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's also a place where we can receive.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, physical intimacy, but I think it's also a a metaphor for being able to receive um just emotional intimacy, to be able to receive something in.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously it's it's sort of a foundation for what builds up to the heart.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm assuming, you know, we'll talk about that when we get up and into the chest.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: But um when a pelvis is locked and sort of controlled, there's also this thing about control.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we've lost some stability in the pelvis itself, you know, maybe we're it's a little bit harder to balance when we're being bipedal.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so we can start to hold things in the hips, this sort of like idea that like trauma is stored in the hips.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: But what also happens, it's that that same thing where it's like if we're if we're reducing the amount that we can feel um that doesn't feel good, then we're also reducing the amount that we can feel that's good.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: So there's there's both there's both that holding back of of the feelings of despair or grief or whatever.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um which also gets in the way of joy and excitement and love and comfort.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: And all that's held in the pelvis.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and the relationship then, you know, to the Reichian or the Louinian kind of idea, right?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which is like um that it it could be a place of great armoring when there's instability.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes sense.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you just think if I think fight or flight, yeah, my muscles are gonna contract and protect my vital organs.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um and so yeah, that's what's gonna happen.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: My chest is gonna come down, my pelvis is gonna tilt up, I'm gonna start scanning the environment.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna lock down.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so like that simple experiential thing of like noticing your jaw and then notice your pelvic floor.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm really grateful that pelvic floor therapy is becoming is trending now.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I think maybe w it makes me become more aware of all that sort of thing.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's much easier to think about how my jaw is feeling than how my pelvic floor is feeling.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I find that there's a direct relationship though.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I bring my mind's attention to my jaw, yeah, and then I drop it to my pelvic floor, there's a natural little escalator of consciousness where the two things are connected.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's an for me, it's like easier to notice my jaw and my pelvic floor, for example, than it is for me to notice my jaw and my left temple.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like that doesn't feel natural.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: But in the other direction, to me, yeah, it feels I experience a feeling of it's easeful.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like whoomp, I can just slide right down there and become aware of my pelvic floor.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like there's a well, I think it's the Zhaos.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think what's happening in that moment is that I I can feel into the fact that that energy body or whatever's going on there.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talked about construct a law and the idea that there could be cells in your in your belly that have to do with consciousness.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you just aren't aware of that they have to do with consciousness, but they do have to do with consciousness.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, and now Western medicine is bearing this out with what we know about the microbiome and anxiety, for example.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: That when people have a lot of anxiety, they tend to also have gut problems, and that if they supplement with probiotics there and essential fatty acids, and they work on their gut health, they make sure they're having good poops and all that kind of stuff, that their anxiety can really improve.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so the arrow in traditional Chinese medicine points in both directions.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: We say that it's like too much anxiety can affect the gut, but also the gut itself can be causing anxiety.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that idea that like that there's there's consciousness in the gut too.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just like guts, blood, it's it's it's separate from Kelly.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a that's a very Western idea that like Kelly is some kind of spiritual avatar that lives up in my head.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, totally.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: And guts and blood and shit and pee and all that's that doesn't really belong to me.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, right.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Which is why people You're above it.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm above it, which is why like dreams about like stepping in shit, or you know, uh to go to the Jungian angle on this.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: You go to the bathroom, the toilet's full, it's overflowing.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's so classic.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know, like there's poop on your shoe.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can't get it on.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes that's not a dream.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: You go Yeah, I had a client coming back a couple of weeks ago that said, you know, I had a dream that I went into my kitchen and instead of an oven, there was a toilet that was overflowing with poop.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, you you don't need to be a Jungian analyst to you know what I mean?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the oven.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's what's supposed to be getting hot to transform so that you can eat.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And instead, there's shit all in your kitchen.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what does that say?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's undigested material and it is coming out, and your dream life is like helping you process it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the disgust that you're not that you're repressing, you feel in the dream, right?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And you know that you're working on your shadow when you feel a little queasy.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, for me it's like when I have really looked down deep.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: If I can absorb something and, you know, like lift something out of there, that's it's often feels shameful.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like a recognition of something about myself, a weakness of some kind.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and that's the stuff we want to push down.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, at least I want to push down.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, where's a good place that I'm not gonna see it?
• 30:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Down.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I can't see my own butt unless I look in the mirror.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And even then it's hard.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta keep turning around.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta get the right angle.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you gotta do it.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right angle.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the society of analytical psychology actually uses body material and like sexuality and what people find embarrassing or repellent about embodiment as examples of material that can become disowned and projected into the shadow.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, like what we're talking about is this is classic psychoanalytic stuff here.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, this stuff around that's beneath me.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but then your psyche's like, yes, exactly.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Go there, go down there, go down there.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly where you want to.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Come on in, the water's fine.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so let's watch a horror movie.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, it sounds fun.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think about that.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think about that.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're interested.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I mean, you know, um, addition project aside, um, I don't really have a whole lot of horrors in my life.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we've sanitized so much.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: We've sanitized, deodorized, cleaned up.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like also, you know, with with whatever is going on in my life that I might feel anxious or scared of, I may stop myself.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's part of also part of what happens in the pelvis is this these sort of guards against feeling.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: We put up these guards against feeling.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, which, you know, I don't know if you've worked with clients that maybe don't enjoy sex a whole lot or something like that, you know.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there can be situations where you just you you can't feel the pleasure either.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: You can't feel the pleasure, you can't feel the excitement, it's all just kind of shut down.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um Well, I mean, I mean, now there are some people who identify as intentionally asexual.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's become part of the idea.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: It would be really interesting to do a study with people that identify as that, and then what's their relationship to their pelvis?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Is there is there a correlation?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Is there not?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, are they showing us a new way of relating to our bodies?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like I wouldn't presume dysfunction in that instance, but it does it is curious to me.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that is interesting.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I you know, I know that we there I I've never seen this I've seen this in sort of some some different psychologic literature, but I haven't I don't think it's it exists in the DSM or anything like that.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: But um you know, in the same way that people can have like compulsive eating disorders, people have compulsive sexual disorders, right?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So oversex, over sex, right, like hypersexuality, sexual compulsivity, the the philias, the various philias where people just be fetishize and obsess, yeah, then you know, I mean in terms of like it's so in one case it could be like an anorectic kind of right, we're shutting it all down.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but in the other case it could just be like compulsively overeating, right?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Just so much attention uh on sex on sexuality, even to a point where it's compulsive, yeah, and disruptive to their life.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or maybe harmful to other people.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's also a place, I think, this this place of the pelvis, it's it's definitely also a place where we can we know we can hurt people, like we know we can enter people here, um you know, and like entering someone forcibly uh through the gates of the pelvis is brutal.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so private.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And sacred.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: So what was this thing about the sacrum?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: The sacrum.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: The word sacrum is related to the word sacred.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the sacred bone of your body.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: The sacred bone of the body.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's the base of the the um spinal cord.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a cool little bone.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it looks like a butterfly.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not I mean, it's not little.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I was thinking what, you know, um listeners, we had this little little dog for a long time named Peanut.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: She was just a sweet little chihuahua, and we and she we had her along with this other chihuahua named Bodhi, and they were together for over 15 years, and then they both died within about six months of one another, and we buried Peanut and after she passed, and then we decided to dig her up because the addition was gonna get big was gonna get the vertebrae.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: An addition we're like, oh, it's gonna go over Peanut's grave, we gotta get her up.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we dug Peanut up.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: We dug her up, we dug her up.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: She came from underground.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: She came from underground.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um Yeah, we pulled up.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: We filled as many bones as we could, and we got to these tiny little rib bones, her itty bones.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: But then we found her sacrum.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: And to me, it did feel like the most sacred bone of all.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: You really liked it.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was so attracted to it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then today, as we were doing the research, I found out that the sacrum was particularly um involved in like animal sacrifice, and there is some idea that this is where the life force comes in.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: It makes sense.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's at the sacrum, that this is the seat of the life force.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 35:43
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: So say what you know about that because you're just mentioning it, and there might be some people who are not familiar.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, my understanding is I mean, I I could not tell you the history of kundalini yoga, but uh actually the first um um the first pranayama breath work I learned, I think, was from kundalini.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: And it's this this idea of just feeling what would I do?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: I would imagine a light, like a round circular light at the base of my spine, which would be at that sacrum.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then as I would breathe in, I would imagine that light just going all the way up to my spine, up to the base of my skull, and then up through my cranium to my third eye, between the eyes.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then as I breathe out, it would just go all the way down, and it would just kind of go up and down and up and down, starting at that, the sacrum.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like that's where that energy really can arise up from.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now, is it the sacrum itself?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_03: Is it the bottom, the base of the pelvis?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: Is it where, you know, traditionally these exercises are done seated on the floor, so the pelvis is on the floor.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I know that when I do breath work, I mean, ever since I first started.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I would get to these parts of the time where my body's just moving, like my um my spinal cord is sort of in this sort of like spiral rotation or almost like a snake um feeling that almost just feels like kind of like the waves of an ocean where it's just real this this whole natural movement coming up and down my spine.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so you know, is that placebo?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is there something going on there?
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in traditional in so the that's what you're talking about is yogic tradition from India, right?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a similar meditation in Qigong, which is from China, but it's called the my do working with the microcosmic orbit.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: You breathe up the spine, yeah, and then down the front line of the center, and you make there's like a little circle.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_01: And mostly I have taught that to many, many people, and usually all I have to do is give them that instruction and they can immediately feel it in the body.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's there.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, what is it?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's yeah, it's the energy.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: I believe it's the energy body, and I think in the same way, if I just go inside.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now I've spent a lot of time trying to feel inside, and I have a I have a unique sensitivity to that, my inside feeling.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: That some people just it's just temperamental.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I can just really feel like that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: You really do.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sensitive to that.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not everybody is.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: It might, you know, I'm I'm just a nat I'm more of a natural, so it's easier for me to pick that kind of thing up than maybe people who are more focused outside their bodies.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, the microcosmic orbit.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know, when you were describing that place at the root, I think of the chakra system.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think of the root chakra, which is the sacral chakra, right?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Molodhara, is that right?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what it's called?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Molodah Molodahara, I think.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it's like that that root in it's not really at the outside of the spine, it's just a little bit, just a couple, just a little bit inside, right?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's more like you're you're going up the it's almost like the spinal cord or like the center, right?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Where where you're feeling that.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: In in Buddhism, it's very, very common for the instruction to be to put your mind, like in Japan, they say, Zen Buddhism in Japan, they say, put your mind in your hara, which is your lower abdomen.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you put your finger in your belly button, right?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you make you you take your first four fingers and you put them, there's like four fingers down between your index finger and your pinky.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you go four fingers down from underneath your belly button and put your finger right there, right there, four fingers down from your belly button, and then about two fingers inside.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: There's a area right there.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Traditional Chinese medicine, we call it the lower dantian.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: And lower Dantean is having cramps today.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: The uterus is right there.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting day.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Don't talk about the pelvis.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, totally.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_03: I was like feeling, I was like, oh no, I don't want to press there today.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the lower Dantian is there in China in the in uh the Japanese call it the Hara, and they think of it as the this whole area.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like your center comes from your horror.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: So in in Japanese Zen, they say, put your mind in your horror.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sink.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sink your mind to your horror.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so what does that mean?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the in the instruction that was given to me from a Chinese teacher was like this: you're when you sit to meditate, your eyes, you c you close your eyes just gently.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't, they're not completely closed, right?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like half-mast.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: So your eyes look to your nose.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: Your nose looks to your mouth.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Your mouth looks to your heart.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And now your heart looks to your lower Dantian.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: I immediately got this vision of I it it this is what my this is what my brain goes.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: We're closing the shutters.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's seriously breaking when you write when you drop a shutter down, it's like it goes down, and then the neck and then it goes.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like a way of going inside.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's really beautiful.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's really nice, isn't it?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's so beautiful.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what I really love about it was that that was that was just experientially realized by long-term meditators.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you do it like this, in other words, like Reich, become aware of your jaw.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now become aware of your pelv of your pelvic floor.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's natural.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was not invented, it was like discovered.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same with this.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like eyes to nose, nose to mouth, mouth to heart, heart to the lower Nantian, heart to the Hara.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: So in Zen we say, you know, there's a Buddha in your belly.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wake him up.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: So to circle it from that kind of idea, which is that this the seat of wisdom might actually be in your seat.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: Totally, totally, totally.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then I just keep thinking about this book that Stephen Pressfield wrote that's called Put Your Ass Where Your I mean.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, put your ass where your heart wants to be.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's it's about a lot of the things that he writes about often, which is like creativity, resistance, how to get through all of that.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I I really feel like it kind of draws on these same sort of ideas that we can put ourselves, you know, again, there might be something my heart is longing to do, but I have to put my actual body, which is gonna include my ass.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're gonna go be somewhere, the best thing you can do is either put your feet or your ass there, because then you're there.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like seated meditation is a mind-body practice.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a mind practice.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's a mind-body practice.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the pelvis, we can't talk like the pelvis requires us to acknowledge the body in a way that the feet don't quite, and in a way that the legs don't quite.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: Because the pelvis is in the bodies, in the trunk of the body.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: And your feet don't fart.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody out there might be able to do, you know, like they can do the armpit farts and they can do it with their hands.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: I bet somebody out there can do it with their feet.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, most of us know.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Your feet don't fart.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not like your feet are s are regularly saying, sit down, something needs to come out of me.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: So there's there's this this connection of like creation and uh being able to, you know, desire is the other thing that comes up with the pelvis.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: Is there there's so much more like emotion and emotionality around it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it's like what what what is it that we want to create in this world?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, totally.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what do we want to leave this world with?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, right?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's not only babies, it's just like much bigger than that.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: What am I making?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: It is much bigger than that.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I it could be an identity, it could be a relationship, it could be artistic work, it could be a garden, it could be a new life.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: And the pelvis is a container, it is meant to hold things, but it's not meant to hold on to them.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: You see what I'm saying?
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: It is not it is meant to hold things, but it is not meant to hold on to them.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of what creates dysfunction.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, thinking of it like a drainage ditch is a really interesting thing to just let yourself think about your body as if it has a ditch, a drainage ditch in it.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, that's swampy.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is you know like Florida is the lower zhao of the United States.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Think about that.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_03: Read some of the headlines, and you know.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Think about that for a minute.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: Apparently, there was some dude in Florida, Florida Waffle House, that tried to baptize an alligator with his iced tea.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_03: He got kicked out.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_03: Did he bring the alligator into the wall?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't read the rest of the story.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it might have just been clickbait, but I was like, yeah, believable.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_03: Florida is the drainage ditch of the United States.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally, you know.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all transcendent.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's you know, so I know.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think we could totally I want to do a class on the medicine of the swamp because it's like the swamp has so much to teach us.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not yucky.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's not entirely yucky.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: It it it it there are some disgusting parts, but there are some really fertile, yummy things going on too.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's some of the most greatest pleasures in life is I mean, for some of us, is sex.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't you need the pelvis for that, at least for some of it, right?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so, but it's all that's also where we poop and pee.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do we make sense of that?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Living in a world of duality.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: So this gets us back, this gets me back to the beginning.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: The pelvis, the pelvis is inherent duality because it is where the two become one.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's there's something about getting down into something too, you know.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like in terms of um, I was thinking about mythology a little bit.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about Inanna, you know what I mean, and how she has this discussion.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, to go into the underworld, she goes into the underworld where she meets Arishkigal, you know, her sister, who is like the queen of the underworld.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And as Inanna is going down, she's like eyes look to nose, nose looks to mouth.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's very much like a process where she's stripping herself of her persona until eventually she's just naked there in front of Arishkigal.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that there's this it's like every queen of heaven kind of has this naked underworld goddess in her also.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like we're we're not just one or the other.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: We're one and the other.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_03: We're one and the other.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're one and the other.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, there's only s well, I mean, at least for me at this point, I'm not able to take it all in at once.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's what enlightenment will be.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: The ability to see beyond duality.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Some some have said that.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it's something to look forward to.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: And behind.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: That but that stripping of kind of like this is the face that I want to show.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the saying?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've said this up to you before because I love it so much.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can't you can't save your face and your ass at the same time.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sometimes there's like a psychological necessity to to getting below your face, right?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like to getting down into the guts of it.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:48
  unknown: Right.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, to what your gut feeling is about it, to where you want to move, to that lower register.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's not lower, I don't know.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it seems natur it seems natural to talk about it that way, since it's below my head.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: I still orient, you know, as if the head is my top.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually not.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the top.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the top is where I decide it is.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and this is where you and I get into like, I have a hard time telling left from right.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, hold up your left hand.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, but if I do that the other way.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: But it's an L this way and it's an L that way.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just turn it this way.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's an L.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's my right hand making it in the.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's the back of your hand.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but it who decides where the back is?
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I say, who decides where the back is?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, I'm gonna decide left from right.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Who decides where the back is?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Who decides where the front is?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I can't believe we had a whole episode about the pelvis and we didn't even talk about sitting.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: But that's okay.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's okay.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm standing up right now.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: I know.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, listeners, uh, if you've been sitting, uh, may you stand against it.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: Against it.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: And if you've been standing, well, take a seat.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: What was that saying in the 50s?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Fonzie would say, sit on it.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sit on it, Potsy.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't it Potsy?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sit on it.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: Alright, well, shall we uh wrap this baby up?
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, let's wrap it up.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Being Different.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_03: Together.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: And please leave us a review, subscribe, share with your friends, and tune in next week where we'll talk about, I don't know.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: The middle joe.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: The middle show.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Probably.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Or something thereabouts.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: Something like that.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: Have a wonderful week, everybody.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: We love you, and we'll see you next time.